Etiquette - Delerra's Tomb

[koluka]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

[dunklezhan]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

These are very considerate questions. Kudos to you. In fact, have a +1

Officially, as long as you have done damage to a mob during events like this, you have a chance of getting a drop when it dies. In practice I have absolutely no idea what that means: do you have to do a certain minimum proportion of damage for it to count, do you have a higher chance if you kill the mob or are the one with aggro when the mobs dies...?

No clue. The devs never go into that much detail about how the mechanic works.

For etiquette purposes, if I see someone grabbing the attention of a load of mobs and want to do a drive by, I only then attack the damaged ones if that's feasible - to make sure the person who grabbed them has definitely done some damage and I'm not taking away from them.

But I do so out of guesswork. The mechanics are a bit opaque. Someone will likely be along soon to tell me I'm wrong and that they've done lots of testing. So you'll want to wait for that before taking my advice away :)

[Pyed-Pyper]

I believe one of the dev's explained the rather complex formula for kill rewards in the festival. I can't find that thread, but the short answer is "Yes, you should be polite, but it basically doesn't matter regarding the drop." The kill shot isn't the only deciding factor, it is just one of many.

[skorpeon]

I believe one of the dev's explained the rather complex formula for kill rewards in the festival. I can't find that thread, but the short answer is "Yes, you should be polite, but it basically doesn't matter regarding the drop." The kill shot isn't the only deciding factor, it is just one of many.

So we don't really know, I have a warlock with chain attack and it's proving pretty effective. But then some guy comes along (Warlock) and burst the H out of everything....pufffft all dead. Still next time I will try to group with him.....lol

How much does grouping help, I know it helps as I get chockies without making a kill at times.

Anyway, loved the quests. Took my brain a minute or two to work out where I was at times, love the haywire one for example.

[Wh070aa]

Kill all the things before they despawn. Despawn timers are extremely short, so if you see someone attacking monster for longer than couple seconds, just kill it, since it will probably despawn before he kills it.

[sk3l3t0r]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

Kill stealing was a big NO-NO in Runescape where you would be assigned a Slayer task to kill X number of a certain mob type in order to get your next task, or if you were leveling one of your combat stats, etc ...in DOO, in these events its a free for all because Clerics, Warlocks, Druids, Melee Cleaves etc ... with AOE spells and abilities can damage groups of mobs and give you a chance at the drop.

Grouping is advised, and many guilds run together during these evenst, you will also see many LFMs posted in peek times. Grouping can have an effect on numbers of mob spawns if I am not mistaken, so it's always advisable...or it has something to do with number of people in the area, can't remember. I just remember observing that more mobs seem to spawn when there are a large number of people in that area.

Either way, don't expect people to slow down or be "ethical" most of the time, that has been my experience over the last 5-6 years in DDO. As already mentioned mobs de-spawn quickly so it comes down to kill them fast or lose your chance at a drop becaseu someone will steal it even a small about of damage in a "drive-by" or it will go poof on you.

[Cantor]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

The best way to farm is to get a raid group together. There are always a-holes in any game and these public zone events bring them out in DDO. If you have a large group that can dominate the kills they will get bored and move on. The thing is that number of people in an area increases spawns, so they do come to try and steal your kills. Glad to hear someone wants to respect other people.

[koluka]

Thanks for the responses.

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about anyone kill stealing - I haven't had any issues with anyone kill-stealing. They just come along, give the mobs a few smacks but not kill it, and then run off. If anything, it is like they are helping me kill a bit quicker but not actually taking the kill themselves.

I was just wondering if it was some kind of DDO thing that people do to help others out, increase the chance for everyone to get a bit extra because more than one person has hit on the mob. I'm guessing from responses it mostly isn't. It must have just been what a few were doing at the time I was in the zone earlier.

[Splunge]

I believe one of the dev's explained the rather complex formula for kill rewards in the festival. I can't find that thread

I remember that post, too. Can anyone out there find it? I was looking it for it last night after farming for keys in a group. Everything was fine until a burst warlock joined. He was getting about 3/4 of the drops. He said he didn't know why, but he only noticed getting drops when he killed something. His bursts were able to kill large groups at once, so he was definitely getting most of the kills. I don't remember that happening last year.

[karatemack]

Thanks for the responses.

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about anyone kill stealing - I haven't had any issues with anyone kill-stealing. They just come along, give the mobs a few smacks but not kill it, and then run off. If anything, it is like they are helping me kill a bit quicker but not actually taking the kill themselves.

I was just wondering if it was some kind of DDO thing that people do to help others out, increase the chance for everyone to get a bit extra because more than one person has hit on the mob. I'm guessing from responses it mostly isn't. It must have just been what a few were doing at the time I was in the zone earlier.

There was a time in which it seemed as though whoever had initially damaged the mobs in the area received the drops regardless of who landed the kill. I don't know how it's coded, however, so I can't say with certainty that it doesn't work some other way.

In either case... Wheaton's Law applies.

[HAL]

I don't believe that it is necessary for you to kill the mob to get a reward, just to tag it. That is why so many people are tagging as many as possible. Of course if the mob despawns instead of dying it doesn't matter if anyone tagged it. That is why you are advised to kill ASAP.

So, run a character with AoEs but also good killing power for best Graveyard results.

[Loromir]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

I am of the opinion that whomever lands the first hit on a mob is the one who has the chance to get the ingredient (Or someone in that group). I have been been playing around in Mabar since it first came out many moons ago...and it always feels like that if I join in beating up a mob after someone else engages it...I never get any ingredients. However, If I'm first to engage the mob...I have a great chance of getting ingredients. Of course, its just my opinion, others might disagree...but this has been my experience.

[bsquishwizzy]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

Despite what other people have said, I could have sworn that I read somewhere on this forum that the kill goes to the person / group that initially did damage. So you tag it, and someone else slays it, you get the reward. But, I could be wrong.

In my experience, I don'y think I have EVER gotten a reward for a mob that someone else "tagged" but I killed. Then again, in the chaos, it is easy to overlook.

[bsquishwizzy]

Generally, as far as group etiquette goes, you usually stake out an area where no one else is and then just farm it. And there are quite a few areas where you can just group together and run around without overlapping in the territory with another group.

if you are on your own, run around. This way if you are "kill stealing," either on purpose or by accident, you are not doing it consistently in competition with another group, or by dogging them.

In my opinion, when a mob comes up it is actually pretty difficult to determine beforehand whose mob it is. Don't go out of your way to steal stuff, but at the same time don't get too bent out of shape if someone takes yours now and again.

[scipiojedi]

In my opinion, when a mob comes up it is actually pretty difficult to determine beforehand whose mob it is. Don't go out of your way to steal stuff, but at the same time don't get too bent out of shape if someone takes yours now and again.

Unless you are a rogue. Then kill steal away! ;)

[HAL]

Despite what other people have said, I could have sworn that I read somewhere on this forum that the kill goes to the person / group that initially did damage. So you tag it, and someone else slays it, you get the reward. But, I could be wrong.

In my experience, I don'y think I have EVER gotten a reward for a mob that someone else "tagged" but I killed. Then again, in the chaos, it is easy to overlook.

I believe that was only true during the very first Mabar. They changed the mechanic so that anyone who damages the mob has a chance for a drop. If you're in a party, the entire party gets a chance at a drop that any party member tags which is why its best to group. I believe this is the mechanic that is still active.

For the Draught of Midnight, you have to kill the mob to get a drop.

[Pyed-Pyper]

going from memory, the old formula was

first/activating hit - higher chance
in group - low chance
something - low chance
something - low chance
in area - low chance
kill shot - higher chance


my experience yesterday - I was in a low level group (5-9) in the 4-9 instance. The party was grouped in one area to better trigger spawns. Several lev 6 toons (lowest in group) were obviously piking and they were getting most of the drops, so it appears (anectdotally) level of the toon vs mob level is factored.

[theboyftw]

I was just walking along in the graveyard and got some chocolate - hadn't even hit anything for what that's worth...

[grrowler]

I remember that post, too. Can anyone out there find it? I was looking it for it last night after farming for keys in a group. Everything was fine until a burst warlock joined. He was getting about 3/4 of the drops. He said he didn't know why, but he only noticed getting drops when he killed something. His bursts were able to kill large groups at once, so he was definitely getting most of the kills. I don't remember that happening last year.


The thread was Key Drop Factors, and Cordovan replied to it several times. I think the specific reply that you are looking for is:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467015-Key-Drop-Factors#post5714484


When a graveyard monster is killed, there are a couple of different percentage rolls made, and based on the outcome of those rolls, the Darkest Chocolate or Night Revels Key is distributed. Among the things that make you eligible for receiving an award is being the person who hit the monster first, being the one who killed it, being on the monsters hate list, or being in a party with someone who did one of those things. Additionally, it makes ineligible characters who are massively over the level of the monster. It is possible to get both a Darkest Chocolate and Night Revels Key when killing a mob. The things that make you eligible are not all weighed equally.

[HAL]

I was just walking along in the graveyard and got some chocolate - hadn't even hit anything for what that's worth...

Based on Cordovan's post https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467015-Key-Drop-Factors#post5714484 (quoted in the post above)

And barring any guard or aura effects that might be a factor, or being in a party, you were probably on the mob's hate list which can be because you were the first PC it saw.

[Nonesuch2008]

There are usually enough mobs around for all without the need to horn in on someone else's action. Kill tagging and sharing is normally expected with the vulture clubs that stake out certain areas, but if you go out of your way to jump in on someone in a limited isolated melee, I don't think the motivation for that is altruistic. I have an appreciation for those that give me the space to fight my own battles & I repay the favor in kind.

This may be one of the reasons they removed the importance of the red-named vampires & liches from the old event, because when those appeared, everyone and their mother tended to pile on in an effort for a fang or some lich dust.

[koluka]

There are usually enough mobs around for all without the need to horn in on someone else's action. Kill tagging and sharing is normally expected with the vulture clubs that stake out certain areas, but if you go out of your way to jump in on someone in a limited isolated melee, I don't think the motivation for that is altruistic. I have an appreciation for those that give me the space to fight my own battles & I repay the favor in kind.

This may be one of the reasons they removed the importance of the red-named vampires & liches from the old event, because when those appeared, everyone and their mother tended to pile on in an effort for a fang or some lich dust.


Yeah... I'm just taking the approach of running around killing stuff that no-one else has engaged, and if someone engages a mob I'm on, I leave them to it and move on. I do like the idea of "the more people that smack on a mob, the more likely it is to drop something", but I don't know whether that is the case or not. Regardless, smacking on other peoples mobs is still considered kill stealing by some, so I'm not going to smack anything anyone else has engaged. unless it's an unintentional "oops".

But I am closely observing my drops when someone smacks on something I have engaged. I don't know whether it is wishful thinking on my part, but it seems to me I get more chocolate drops when someone else engages a mob I already have engaged, so I personally have no complaints about people jumping in on my fights. Lol - I welcome it, even if just to observe the outcome.

There was a conversation going on in channel last dt instance i was in, about people trying to kill-steal mobs and how they were getting all the chocolate from others trying to ks their mobs.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

If someone seems to be purposely stealing your kills, I would say that is rude.
...but I would just go move somewhere else, or to another instance.

What I see in DDO, is just that everyone attacks whatever they see, but usually do not seem to be purposely trying to take someone else's fun away..... usually anyway...

[Tscheuss]

There was a time in which it seemed as though whoever had initially damaged the mobs in the area received the drops regardless of who landed the kill. I don't know how it's coded, however, so I can't say with certainty that it doesn't work some other way.

In either case... Wheaton's Law applies.

I remember that. I had a rogue on perch when I was ranging a mob. Some melee jumps in, kills the mob, then sends me a tell to "tank your own s**t next time". Rude boy. XD

[Tscheuss]

If someone seems to be purposely stealing your kills, I would say that is rude.
...but I would just go move somewhere else, or to another instance.

What I see in DDO, is just that everyone attacks whatever they see, but usually do not seem to be purposely trying to take someone else's fun away..... usually anyway...

Kill stealing does not really exist in DDO. :)

[VinceWhirlwind]

Kill stealing does not really exist in DDO. :)

I can't comment on Mabar, but I play Crystal Cove every time it comes around.
In Crystal Cove, the drops from each kill always go to the person that first did damage to it.

I might try Mabar this time around, but I do have limited time for these kinds of endless-running-around-kill-random-stuff scenarios.

[lifestaker]

Etiquette In Delera's also should include turning off colors of the queen/double rainbow. Lasting display effects contribute to lag, not that anyone has openly said so as far as I can remember. Test yourself by walking a character around (the older an instance the better) and looking at the pretty light shows that go off everywhere mobs have been killed in masses. If you lag up as these effects go off hours after they actually executed, then you have been effected by colors of the queen lag. Enjoy it, and blame it on an aura.

[virtualgib]

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/qweeve/77ac60c9-3c77-4401-8be4-300d854ac3c0_zpspmz8w0oh.png (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/qweeve/media/77ac60c9-3c77-4401-8be4-300d854ac3c0_zpspmz8w0oh.png.html)

[Rykka]

Thanks for the responses.

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about anyone kill stealing - I haven't had any issues with anyone kill-stealing. They just come along, give the mobs a few smacks but not kill it, and then run off. If anything, it is like they are helping me kill a bit quicker but not actually taking the kill themselves.

I was just wondering if it was some kind of DDO thing that people do to help others out, increase the chance for everyone to get a bit extra because more than one person has hit on the mob. I'm guessing from responses it mostly isn't. It must have just been what a few were doing at the time I was in the zone earlier.

This is pretty much what I do. Get in or form a large group. I perch and use ranged/thrown on my melee with mouselook targeting in an area with many players and spawn points. When spawns happen I tag them which seems to reset their despawn timer. Ranged damage activates and aggros the spawns towards me, which allows the group to constantly kill. choco and keys drop, everyone wins.

The foil to this are solo auralocks that circle the area instakilling groups of spawns, however you just need to get them in the group for mutual gain. Unfortunately that grouping bit became more difficult friday when, instead of grouping with them, someone chose to spam against warlock in chat. The response to that was Warlock Only groups. It escalated quickly and was pretty funny. Well I'd earned enough keys to think it was funny at that point.

But to the point, DDO players help DDO players until they're given a reason to not do so.

[Rykka]

Kill stealing does not really exist in DDO. :)

But but but Kill Count! It's a number!

[morkahn82]

Just a question about etiquette.

I came from a game where one of the biggest no-no's anyone can do in a public area is beat up on a mob that someone else is already beating up on. They call it "kill stealing" and get really ansi.

But...

I got the impression that the more people beating up on mobs in Delerra's Tomb the more likely everyone is to get chocolate and keys. Is this true, regardless of whether people are grouped or not?

I've noticed that when I'm smacking mobs, sometimes people will come along, give a few smacks and then go smack someone else's mobs. Does this increase the chance of people getting more stuff?

If I want to be a good DDO citizen, should i give a few smacks to mobs others have engaged, or is that a no-no in this game as well?

forget about etiquette, kill stealing is part of the night revels event, it is part of the fun. Squelch happens.

[Sylvado]

This may be one of the reasons they removed the importance of the red-named vampires & liches from the old event, because when those appeared, everyone and their mother tended to pile on in an effort for a fang or some lich dust.

So why not just stop them from spawning?

[Aelonwy]

So why not just stop them from spawning?

I don't know, maybe the occasional red name keeps it from getting too dull? Running full tilt around the area swatting everything in 1 or 2 cleaves taking zero damage then BAM red name lich zaps 1/3 of your life with spell damage. Got to take him out ASAP! Take a breath, heal up a bit, then laugh maniacally as you run around full tilt again cleaving away at the undead hoards shouting Ash catch phrases?!

[Nonesuch2008]

So why not just stop them from spawning?

Because Revels is built on the framework of Mabar, and it was probably more trouble or time-consuming to remove them outright versus just diminishing the rewards & calling it a day. I don't find them nearly as challenging as the red-named that exist in the Cove, which may also explain why they only *may, might, possibly* cough up a single reward when killed versus the stack of gems & doubloons that a Cove pirate captain will give. I made the suggestion a while back that the Revels red-named should give out some sort of guaranteed award, and others echoed it as well.

I digress, though. They are there because they existed in the old Mabar, just like the Summoning Chamber still lights up and activates if you check the door. I bet I'm not the only one that has checked it to hear that the lock still clicks, either. ;)

[Gauthaag]

Heh, i d spam those red names more, but with rewards and quite more powerful - so it s worthy to kill them and them being able to kill pikers:)

[Sylvado]

Because Revels is built on the framework of Mabar, and it was probably more trouble or time-consuming to remove them outright versus just diminishing the rewards & calling it a day. I don't find them nearly as challenging as the red-named that exist in the Cove, which may also explain why they only *may, might, possibly* cough up a single reward when killed versus the stack of gems & doubloons that a Cove pirate captain will give. I made the suggestion a while back that the Revels red-named should give out some sort of guaranteed award, and others echoed it as well.

I digress, though. They are there because they existed in the old Mabar, just like the Summoning Chamber still lights up and activates if you check the door. I bet I'm not the only one that has checked it to hear that the lock still clicks, either. ;)

I am not sure what sets the CR of the Red Names in the Cove but as a 14/2 fighter/rogue running in the 20-25 instance engaging a red name is not a real good idea.