Curious: What would "end-game" look like?

[koluka]

In forums and in-game chat I see people comment about DDO having "no end-game".

As someone who has only ever played one other mmo, I'm curious about how people think "end-game" would look in DDO.

I don't see "end-game" being compatible with the basic reincarnation dynamic. ( I use "I" acknowledging that I am not the holder of all wisdom, and it is only what I see - I want to know what you see)

To me, "end game" is "The new guildie is grinding to lvl 95 so he can join our raids, that run every Tuesday and Saturday night". A definite linear progression. You get levels, then more uber gear from grouping, then you can raid to get even more uber gear to do harder raids. Until there are no more harder raids to do, then you wait for the next expansion while gearing up alternate classes as backups for raiding.

When I try to translate that to DDO....I'm left wondering....how would that work? Would it be "The new guildie is grinding through 30 heroic and epic reincarnates so he can raid"....

Or is the new "reaper mode" the "end-game" that people want? More challenging solo, group, raid?

I have no personal investment, just curious. I don't see myself playing "end-game", just interested in how others see it.

[SirValentine]

As someone who has only ever played one other mmo, I'm curious about how people think "end-game" would look in DDO.


You're one MMO up on me. But I think when people talk about DDO not having an end-game now, it's in comparison to back when it did, like the 2009-2012 time frame.

There were 11 different raids that were run regularly and had desired loot. (And no timer bypasses, so you didn't just run something 20 times in a row to get what you wanted.) There were dozens of "Epic" quests (a difficulty, not a "tier"), again with desired loot. And player character power level was much lower then, so these raids and quests were far more difficult in comparison to what we have today. There was also a much larger player population. So, end-game? Lots of content at level-cap that's challenging to run, worth running, and with lots of people running it. DDO had that; it doesn't now.



I don't see "end-game" being compatible with the basic reincarnation dynamic. ( I use "I" acknowledging that I am not the holder of all wisdom, and it is only what I see - I want to know what you see)


If you mean you can't be doing both at the exact same time, you're right. But I thought they worked nicely together. You could easily spend months or years at level cap, and never lack for things to do, but you could also easily take a break from it, and re-experience the low-level content while you get a past life.



Or is the new "reaper mode" the "end-game" that people want? More challenging solo, group, raid?


Too early to say. We'll see.

[Cantor]

I think the player base has changed too much to really appreciate the same type of end game we used to have. People aren't willing to run a quest once per day (or 3days) on epic (possibly waiting to get a party together) trying to get a rare seal/shard anymore. Now, they get mad when they solo something 8 times in a row on normal and don't get the exact item they are after.

I really liked the S/S/S system, but there are tons of people who will say it was the worst thing ever.

There are a lot of game changes that contributed to the shift like raid timers and huge power creep/self healing. Reaper seems to address some of this, but will it have some reason to keep playing like S/S/S?

[FranOhmsford]

You're one MMO up on me. But I think when people talk about DDO not having an end-game now, it's in comparison to back when it did, like the 2009-2012 time frame.

There were 11 different raids that were run regularly and had desired loot. (And no timer bypasses, so you didn't just run something 20 times in a row to get what you wanted.) There were dozens of "Epic" quests (a difficulty, not a "tier"), again with desired loot. And player character level was much lower then, so these raids and quests were far more difficult in comparison to what we have today. There was also a much larger player population. So, end-game? Lots of content at level-cap that's challenging to run, worth running, and with lots of people running it. DDO had that; it doesn't now.

That End-Game was destroyed by MotU!

The new Eveningstar Loot and RNG going up to 25 left Old Epic Gear that people had grinded or were still grinding in the dust!

EE was difficult at first for the majority but that majority very quickly shrunk as many people caught on to a "farm" and levelled to 25 fast.

Epic Destinies and Lvl 28 Cap quickly followed - WITHOUT the requisite difficulty of content to go with them and the Farmers continued to farm getting stronger and stronger.

The Devs seem to only be able to average 3 new quests every 3-4 months {at best} which is nowhere near enough to fill out basically 10 extra levels now as well as provide a decent amount of actual End-Game content.

Then the Devs refused to make Legendary actually Legendary and REQUIRE Lvl 28+ or preferably Lvl 30 to ENTER said content!
Requiring min lvl 28/30 to enter would have allowed the Devs to tailor the content to what is available at those levels - Instead they tailored it to what is available at Lvl 20 and within a week groups made up mainly of low level Epic Characters were completing it with relative ease.

Reaper with the 1-10 Skulls idea available for every quest in the game AT LEVEL {Within 2 levels of the base level of the quest to enter} should actually provide a decent Challenge Difficulty.
Remember that that within 2 levels means that a Capped Character should only be able to run Lvl 28+ Quests on Reaper and at 10 Skulls that should be super difficult - I'm a bit worried at the amount of completions I'm hearing about on Lamannia already though.


If you mean you can't be doing both at the exact same time, you're right. But I thought they worked nicely together. You could easily spend months or years at level cap, and never lack for things to do, but you could also easily take a break from it, and re-experience the low-level content while you get a past life.

Remember that Artificers, Warlocks and Druids didn't exist back then - That's 3 less lives required for completionist and 9 less past life bonuses in total.

Epic Destinies didn't exist back then and we all know how much power those add.

Epic Past Lives didn't exist back then - Another extreme amount of power added AND much much less grind to reach End-Game capability.

There were a lot less Completionists back then - Because players just hadn't had the time in-game to become a Completionist - Only the real must get completionist {incl. those wanting to be the first to do so} crowd had done it.

Epics Pre MotU were aimed {IN MY OPINION} at:
3rd Life and Lvl 20
40-60 Shroud Completions
20 Tower of Despairs
20 Reaver's Fates
20 Heroic ADQs
20 Hounds
20 VoDs
Yes they could be done with far less - Especially if in a group with people who had all that - but that's where I feel they were aimed.

CitW, Fall of Truth and MotU/Shadowfell Content was aimed slightly higher - Let's say 4th Life Capped with the same number of Heroic Raid Completions.

MoD, DoJ, Thunderholm aimed slightly higher again - 5th Life Capped, Destinies filled, 3 Fate Slots filled.

Only the problem is that the sheer power level of Destinies and Epic Past Lives is vastly ahead of where CitW-Thunderholm were aimed. {DoJ relies for it's difficulty basically on Lag!}.

Even Legendary Content simply does not come close to what the Triple Heroic/Triple Epic Completionists {of which there's actually a decent number now} have!
I'd say Legendary Elite is currently aimed at 6 Heroic Past Lives+6 Epic Past Lives {obviously all Destinies filled} or some combination of 12 past lives plus decent loot from older content.
And even then 1st Lifers with only average gear can be fully capable of completing it - Usually not solo though. {Player Skill and knowledge does count for a lot}




I really feel that Reaper 10 Skull needs to be outright aimed at Triple Completionists for it to really count as END-GAME!
From what I've read about Reaper I don't think there's enough difference between the #Skulls 1-10 - 1 Skull should be slightly harder than current Elite, 5 Skulls should be massively harder than current Elite, 10 Skulls should be nigh on impossible without a full group of Triple Completionists!

[BigErkyKid]

Y
There were 11 different raids that were run regularly and had desired loot. (And no timer bypasses, so you didn't just run something 20 times in a row to get what you wanted.) There were dozens of "Epic" quests (a difficulty, not a "tier"), again with desired loot.

...

You could easily spend months or years at level cap, and never lack for things to do, but you could also easily take a break from it, and re-experience the low-level content while you get a past life.
.

This. I wasn't active pre motu, but the system was nice. Some problems of the current end game:

- No stability: during that period items were valid for years, now they get outclassed in an update.

- Limited diversity: there were very many quests / raids, now it is all about 2-3 quests and 1-3 raids. It gets boring quickly.

- TRIng/eTRing outclasses staying at cap: since gear gets outclassed, staying at cap does not allow you as much character progress as before. When looking to get a stronger toon, IMO there should be two options. I could replay the game from scratch to try something new and get some small bonuses in the process; or you could stay at cap and play only top challenging content for awesome gear.

Allowing people to choose they preferred mode was a win, even if at the time I personally didn't engage in any serious character building. That's nice too, and I think that it was cool to be able to play casually. I used to find many more people willing to lend a hand to a newbie to get into the game back in the day. As a F2P, I was given passes, advice on builds (once a person told me exactly how to rebuild the toon I had, and held my hand through it). Just because, I never really asked for it.

[nokowi]

In forums and in-game chat I see people comment about DDO having "no end-game".

As someone who has only ever played one other mmo, I'm curious about how people think "end-game" would look in DDO.



End game should be a place where players can play without the demands of new/casual players being a factor.

End game should be a place where you can use the skills, abilities, and game knowledge you acquired.

End game should be a place for teamwork and cooperation, rather than whining about which build is 10% better at DPS. Part of this is player expectations (removing the idea of "balance is equal DPS" that devs are currently pushing), and part is game design.


Combine these ideas, and you see endgame only works at level 30 - a separate area of the game from those who are new or casual and want different things.

If you read this post and think I am against new/casual players, consider that this would allow the rest of the game to be designed around them.

Casual/new players arguing that resources shouldn't be spent on others should consider the result of their own efforts. Are they happy with champions? Are they happy when their casual/new friends leave because the game is "too hard". Or could they accept the idea of two separate areas of the game, one of which is centered around them and one which is not.

[dunklezhan]

Casual/new players arguing that resources shouldn't be spent on others should consider the result of their own efforts. Are they happy with champions? Are they happy when their casual/new friends leave because the game is "too hard". Or could they accept the idea of two separate areas of the game, one of which is centered around them and one which is not.

Casual player chipping in, though obviously not on behalf of all casuals, cos... like why would I even try to claim I speak for all casual players?

I've never argued that resources shouldn't be spent on end game focussed players. Quite the opposite actually, for the reasons you're saying in that last sentence. People who have achieved everything the main game has to offer need something to do, and people who like a traditional end game as a 'goal' to aim for should have that. I 100% agree on all those points.

If you're talking about what I'd prioritise? Then in the past I would certainly have prioritised the rest of the game. But not for a long time: now, despite the fact I wouldn't likely be able to take part in it, what I think they need to concentrate on is Legendary-fying all the raids as soon as possible, including a unified loot system for end gamers to engage with and grind.

FYI - I've never had anyone I know leave because the game is 'too hard' . Too buggy? Yes. Too impenetrable in terms of stacking? Yes. Simply not liking the spell point/rest shrine mechanic? Yes. Lack of UI control/scaling/slickness? Absotively. Not enough people? Yep. No end game? Indupitably.

But never because it's too hard.

[nokowi]

Casual player chipping in, though obviously not on behalf of all casuals, cos... like why would I even try to claim I speak for all casual players?

I've never argued that resources shouldn't be spent on end game focussed players. Quite the opposite actually, for the reasons you're saying in that last sentence. People who have achieved everything the main game has to offer need something to do, and people who like a traditional end game as a 'goal' to aim for should have that. I 100% agree on all those points.

Yes, I was only speaking to those who feel this way. I did not type caste all casual players. If you read the reaper forums, I am on record as saying player preferences in reaper are as varied as they are for casual and new players.




If you're talking about what I'd prioritise? Then in the past I would certainly have prioritised the rest of the game. But not for a long time: now, despite the fact I wouldn't likely be able to take part in it, what I think they need to concentrate on is Legendary-fying all the raids as soon as possible, including a unified loot system for end gamers to engage with and grind.


I appreciate your thoughts.



FYI - I've never had anyone I know leave because the game is 'too hard' .
But never because it's too hard.

You have heard this claim by some casuals (no type casting) many times if you read the forums. This happened within the last day or two when a casual player commented on the reaper forums. The idea presented by this casual is that

1) vets have ruined the game
2) devs shouldn't create a separate place for vets

I guess the poorly thought out theory is that all vets should stop playing, which seems like a good plan for getting a game canceled.

[dunklezhan]

You have heard this claim by some casuals (no type casting) many times if you read the forums. This happened within the last day or two when a casual player commented on the reaper forums. The idea presented by this casual is that

1) vets have ruined the game
2) devs shouldn't create a separate place for vets

I guess the poorly thought out theory is that all vets should stop playing, which seems like a good plan for getting a game canceled.

Agreed.

Ah well, forum posts. Forums posts say all kinds of crazy things, I'm sure by now the Devs have learned to filter.

I meant people that I have actually spoken to and encountered, not people who post hysterical entitled garbage on the forums as if the world owes them a favour (I've been guilty of that in the way back when, but I've learned).

Otherwise, based on a recent thread I'd also believe that only 0.001% of the game's population were not zerging elitists, and I know that isn't true either.

Anyone who thinks their bit of the game needs to be worked on at the expense of any players who play another bit of the game needs to take a big old step back and think about what they're saying for maybe just a minute. Unless the thing in question is stopping exploiter/dupers or something.

But whether casuals should expect to run the end game is not even a question - no they should not, at least not until they have "casually" ground out all the loot and knowledge they need, just like a vet.

I cannot compete in end game: I have not put in enough hours for my skill level on a single character (Because I have like 15 actively played characters). I know the game well, and that's how I'm able to even get by at all when I get dragged into EE and LE quests, but my characters and gear simply aren't good enough and I really can't be bothered to hone my reflexes enough for all the bazillions of hotbar items the game requires or really take a huge interest in multiclassing for optimal synergies.

I could. I know I could. But the game is still fun for me on E-Hard, and I can handle heroic elite like most folks can. I have no trouble levelling or getting the gear to get me through. So that's fine. Better gear I know will come with time. I am not a person who's ever suffered from the curse known as ambition. Life has always been far too disappointing for that, I may as well relax and enjoy myself with DDO, because there are plenty of times in real life when I can't, and have to be the ant instead of the grasshopper. Here? Its *crickets* all the way :)

But I don't go around claiming that this is me somehow being 'prevented' from playing a certain part of the game. What kind of a lunatic does that?

Sometimes, some things in life are beyond your reach. Is the strange attitude you describe perhaps the result of generations of folk being told that 'believing in yourself' is all it takes to succeed, and that everyone is special?

Those people need to go re-watch the Incredibles.

[MaeveTuohy]

End game is where you retire your lvl 30, completionist character permanently and a statue of it goes into the Hall of Heroes.

[Renvar]

Epics Pre MotU were aimed {IN MY OPINION} at:
3rd Life and Lvl 20
40-60 Shroud Completions
20 Tower of Despairs
20 Reaver's Fates
20 Heroic ADQs
20 Hounds
20 VoDs
Yes they could be done with far less - Especially if in a group with people who had all that - but that's where I feel they were aimed.

CitW, Fall of Truth and MotU/Shadowfell Content was aimed slightly higher - Let's say 4th Life Capped with the same number of Heroic Raid Completions.

MoD, DoJ, Thunderholm aimed slightly higher again - 5th Life Capped, Destinies filled, 3 Fate Slots filled.


Turbine has been on record as saying that PL's would never be necessary to complete any content. The above seems false, in that light. And based on the challenge level I have seen of the content. 1st life with a capped destiny and full twist slots (for a non-EPL character) is sufficient to contribute and complete any content in the game at the highest level currently available.

That the power level of heroic and triple epic completionists far out pace this creates the problem we have with difficulty.

I hope that reaper mode is designed to be impossible for current characters with all past lives and current best gear (named with +3/+4 mythics, slavers 5 piece sets, LGS, etc). Give us a challenge and a reason to grind.

[dunklezhan]

... and a reason to grind.

I think that this is the real sticking point and rallying cry on the reaper mode at the moment: "what's the incentive to run it, other than 'challenge'?"

There's been a lot of good ideas suggested in other threads about that though, so hopefully Sev has some food for thought.

[nokowi]

End game is where you retire your lvl 30, completionist character permanently and a statue of it goes into the Hall of Heroes.

I would actually be pleased with turning my toon into a statue there.

Can I purchase the option for player items to mysteriously disappear from inventory as they pass by?

[nokowi]

I think that this is the real sticking point and rallying cry on the reaper mode at the moment: "what's the incentive to run it, other than 'challenge'?"

There's been a lot of good ideas suggested in other threads about that though, so hopefully Sev has some food for thought.

The mistake would be to to believe that players ONLY want challenge, and to build a reaper design that nobody wants to run after it is no longer shiny and new.

[Chai]

End game is typically what you do after reaching cap, to advance you character using other methods than gaining XP to gain levels. Some games use gear progression. Some use skill mastery paths. Some use alternate advancement systems which do require XP but are not accessed until max level is achieved.

The important thing to note here is character advancement still occurs. Part of the issue is I see far too much lobbying for no more advancement on the forums when new ideas are proposed. Claims that players should just do it because its fun, aren't really grasping the true concept of endgame, and how it incentivizes playing. Think about how appealing the current game would be if advancement was just done away with for the current systems, and apply that to potential new systems. Example: How many people would TR only because its fun if no other advancement was offered for it? How many completionists would there be if it was just a badge of honor in name only with no character advancement associated with it?

There have been past eras where players were more satisfied with endgame than they are now. 2009-2011 there were more relevant advancement options at cap. DDO had as much of an endgame community as it had a TR community in this era.

[HAL]

IMO, End Game should be a group of level 30+ near-impossible Quests and Raids whose difficulty is on a scale compared to each other. I don't think that level cap should be raised, but if it is I think they should raise the level of the official End Game content since the system I envision would be created specifically for the End Game. I don't know if at this point Turbine has the budget for a true Endgame, but something like:


-5 Tiers of Quests where each is harder than the previous with the hardest being "impossible". Start with 1 Quest for each Tier with more being added over time.


-5 Tiers of Raids where each is harder than the previous with the hardest being "impossible". Start with 1 Raid for each Tier with more being added over time.


The developers should build in technology to receive a daily auto-report of the End Game content, with details of who is beating it and how. They should also build in technology to easily increase the difficulty of the End Game content in the Live game (i.e. without waiting for an Update).


The difficulty and rewards should be a Progression. The first Tier Quest and Raid should be completable by a full group of First Life characters with difficulty and possible party wipe(s) (this is End Game). Difficulty should progress to the highest Tier Quest and Raid which should be nearly impossible for anyone at all to complete (requires full group, skill, End Game gear, past lives, correct ED, etc.). Rewards from each Tier should be some kind of token which can be used to obtain / reset / upgrade End Game gear. Tokens should be BtC.


Upon reports that any instance is being completed by a type of character (or completed at all for the top tier) that should not be completing it (like Tier 3 being completed by First Life characters of players that are not Cetus et al), the difficulty for that instance is increased. Except in the case of it being completed by a FotM character, in which case that character needs to be balanced.


The developers need to be responsive to this system so that too many characters aren't too easily gaining loot from the progression that allows them to drive up the difficulty too quickly. Ideally there would be a dedicated "End Game Administrator". There should also be a log of End Game Administration in case of the job being passed to another.

[scipiojedi]

Sending my resume for end game administrator

[koluka]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Wow. I had no idea that DDO used to have an established end-game.


You're one MMO up on me. But I think when people talk about DDO not having an end-game now, it's in comparison to back when it did, like the 2009-2012 time frame.

There were 11 different raids that were run regularly and had desired loot. (And no timer bypasses, so you didn't just run something 20 times in a row to get what you wanted.) There were dozens of "Epic" quests (a difficulty, not a "tier"), again with desired loot. And player character power level was much lower then, so these raids and quests were far more difficult in comparison to what we have today. There was also a much larger player population. So, end-game? Lots of content at level-cap that's challenging to run, worth running, and with lots of people running it. DDO had that; it doesn't now.

If you mean you can't be doing both at the exact same time, you're right. But I thought they worked nicely together. You could easily spend months or years at level cap, and never lack for things to do, but you could also easily take a break from it, and re-experience the low-level content while you get a past life.



Thanks so much for this response. A lot of stuff makes sense to me now that didn't before.

Yeah, that was part of what I meant - you can't raid and reincarnate at the same time. Also, thinking of the type of raid I'm accustomed to - a fairly static group of people who get together at set times to run raids, so there is the "right" balance of dps, heals, tanking. So if someone is on the raid roster and decides to reincarnate that would impact the balance of the raid, so adjustments would need to be made while they reincarnate and can they be slotted back into the raid roster after being absent for reincarnating, particularly if they change classes. Especially with only 12 people on a raid.



Yes, I was only speaking to those who feel this way. I did not type caste all casual players. If you read the reaper forums, I am on record as saying player preferences in reaper are as varied as they are for casual and new players

You have heard this claim by some casuals (no type casting) many times if you read the forums. This happened within the last day or two when a casual player commented on the reaper forums. The idea presented by this casual is that

1) vets have ruined the game
2) devs shouldn't create a separate place for vets

I guess the poorly thought out theory is that all vets should stop playing, which seems like a good plan for getting a game canceled.

yeah, i wonder if some of them are trolls. lol - but i also wonder if some of the established vets like to troll and harass others on forums just for the sake of it. some of the vets i've run into on forums have been absolute bullies and straight up defamatory liars - but i know that isn't all vets. just as not all new players and casuals have the expectation that the game should revolve around them and stuff everyone else.

i'd class myself as a casual and I don't have these expectations. There is content I am unable to solo on normal difficulty - some level 32 quests - and I like that. I figure after a few reincarnations (or when I eventually roll a warlock), I'll be able to run that content and it will be new to me. I also understand that those at the top of game want that something to strive for too, so i'd never suggest devs shouldn't design hard mode content.

i was talking with someone about it this morning, and one of the things we pondered was whether the pay model has an impact on player expectation. i'm vip and i've purchased the expansions so i have access to all content. if i find a quest too hard, I simply go play a different one. but if i was buying DDO one adventure pack at a time, i'd probably be a bit disappointed if i bought a pack and couldn't play the content. the pay model must create some extra challenges for the devs that devs on other games wouldn't need to worry about. maybe they need a special class of adventure packs clearly labelled "hardcore only".

i also wonder whether renaming the difficulties something like "solo, duo, group" rather than "normal, hard, elite" might shift some player expectations - so it is laid out clearly that people shouldn't expect to be able to solo content on elite difficulty. it would also highlight "reaper" as being "more difficult than group" giving emphasis to "this is meant to be really hard". little things like that can make a big difference, but there would still be some with unrealistic expectations, i know.



End game is typically what you do after reaching cap, to advance you character using other methods than gaining XP to gain levels. Some games use gear progression. Some use skill mastery paths. Some use alternate advancement systems which do require XP but are not accessed until max level is achieved.

The important thing to note here is character advancement still occurs. Part of the issue is I see far too much lobbying for no more advancement on the forums when new ideas are proposed. Claims that players should just do it because its fun, aren't really grasping the true concept of endgame, and how it incentivizes playing. Think about how appealing the current game would be if advancement was just done away with for the current systems, and apply that to potential new systems. Example: How many people would TR only because its fun if no other advancement was offered for it? How many completionists would there be if it was just a badge of honor in name only with no character advancement associated with it?

There have been past eras where players were more satisfied with endgame than they are now. 2009-2011 there were more relevant advancement options at cap. DDO had as much of an endgame community as it had a TR community in this era.

Well said. You've made the point clearly and respectfully. I've been following this conversation on forums and it has been interesting. I understand that "gear creep" is an issue, so I see that side of it as well. It seems to be an issue of balancing the most uber gear with the most uber content, so that people always have something to chase.


Thanks everyone who posted. I feel I have a much better understanding of what the "no end-game" conversation is about. I hope the new reaper mode delivers for you.

[SirValentine]

The important thing to note here is character advancement still occurs. Part of the issue is I see far too much lobbying for no more advancement on the forums when new ideas are proposed.


We've had massive power bloat, repeatedly, not small, gradual power creep. New enhancement system. Shadowfell gear. Enhancement class passes. New random loot. Slaver's gear. Higher and higher tomes. And so on. There's no "progression", when, instead of making gradual progress towards your ideal gearset, every other new update invalidates your existing gearset. We've had so much power jump, both gear and character mechanics, that difficulty gets way out of whack and hard to balance.

And it's hard to blame forum lobbying against it for anything, since devs have routinely continued the massive power escalation despite any amount of lobbying.

[nokowi]

i also wonder whether renaming the difficulties something like "solo, duo, group" rather than "normal, hard, elite" might shift some player expectations - so it is laid out clearly that people shouldn't expect to be able to solo content on elite difficulty. it would also highlight "reaper" as being "more difficult than group" giving emphasis to "this is meant to be really hard". little things like that can make a big difference, but there would still be some with unrealistic expectations, i know.



I love this idea.

[Chilldude]

End game means what there is to do when your character hits cap, it's not really a, "What end game means to me..." type scenario. Most every other MMORPG has an end game, and DDO used to have a very clearly established end game.

Reaper Difficulty is in no way an end game, it's simply an additional difficulty level.

The most important aspect of end game is that it pools the player base. There are still divisive factors, such as a freshly capped character who has yet to acquire any end game gear doesn't belong in the most difficult content. However, by and large, nearly any group of capped characters can find content that is engaging and rewarding.

Most other MMOs don't have EZ mode in end game content, as DDO did not itself prior to epic levels. In those games you can't simply walk into any content and sleepwalk your way through with any group or even solo. Only a group of experienced and geared players find end game content easy, and most MMORPGs offer an increased difficulty setting for those players. Although this higher difficulty is nothing like reaper mode in DDO, it requires actual player skill rather than merely hyper-inflated stats.

As if the addition of epic levels wasn't bad enough, epic reincarnation nailed the coffin shut on DDO's end game. There is a lot more character progression to be had by leaving cap than staying at cap. Only after spending a massive amount of time grinding out epic past lives does it begin to make sense to stay at cap for any length of time.

While there is certainly character progression in other MMORPG endgames, there is nowhere near the disparity in character strength that exists in DDO. The developers of other games very carefully control character strength, and the moment any ability is found to be overperforming they quickly temper it back into balance. This means everyone is playing the same. Sure, players become significantly more powerful as their gear increases, and a full party of such players can afford to get a bit sloppy here and there, even ignoring a few game mechanics in certain situations, but the entire game never becomes the mindless faceroll that is DDO. It always matters what buttons you press and when you press them, and many game mechanics can never be ignored by anyone.

In DDO you grind easy content over and over until difficult content becomes easy. In other MMO's, if the content is easy then you most likely aren't getting anything out of it and need to move on to more difficult content to further progress.