Update 33 on Lamannia - Preview #2

[Cordovan]

We've now updated Lamannia with a new version of Update 33: Return of the Night Revels. No characters were erased. This version includes a bunch of polish to U33 content, several fixes for the monk and handwraps, and a bunch of fixes to Reaper difficulty that should make it a bit easier to give us feedback on challenge. Note that self-healing is still providing far more benefit than intended in Reaper.

[Mr_Helmet]

Note that self-healing is still providing far more benefit than intended in Reaper.

Please tell me you meant to say healing others. if you nerf self-healing anymore it might as well be removed.

[Ziindarax]

We've now updated Lamannia with a new version of Update 33: Return of the Night Revels. No characters were erased. This version includes a bunch of polish to U33 content, several fixes for the monk and handwraps, and a bunch of fixes to Reaper difficulty that should make it a bit easier to give us feedback on challenge. Note that self-healing is still providing far more benefit than intended in Reaper.

YES!

My posting of Exotic butters music video (in another thread) did the trick in expediting Lamannia's RE-OPEN!

Looking forward to testing monk handwraps (especially Thunderforged, which before was not working).

[Steelstar]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Thunderforged Handwraps should be working.
Henshin's SLAs scale off of Melee Power now, and some should be dealing damage per Monk level (as opposed to every 2).
Several abilities got reduced to 1AP per rank.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)
Each Elemental Strike (in Henshin), as well as Touch of Death, now has its own unique cooldown.

[Ziindarax]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Thunderforged Handwraps should be working.
Henshin's SLAs scale off of Melee Power now, and some should be dealing damage per Monk level (as opposed to every 2).
Several abilities got reduced to 1AP per rank.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)
Each Elemental Strike (in Henshin), as well as Touch of Death, now has its own unique cooldown.


Awesome - just two problems:

1) You cannot buy Night Revel keys to get into Heyweird Foundry, or any other for that matter.

2) The keys that DO drop from killing monsters are "Rusted" keys that do not work.

That being said, any chance a dev could come in and drop some mabar mats - or Night revel keys so we can get in and test the new loot?

[kain741]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Thunderforged Handwraps should be working.
Henshin's SLAs scale off of Melee Power now, and some should be dealing damage per Monk level (as opposed to every 2).
Several abilities got reduced to 1AP per rank.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)
Each Elemental Strike (in Henshin), as well as Touch of Death, now has its own unique cooldown.


I noticed none of the stacking issues with monk were addressed in this update. Is this slated to be looked at before this goes live? There are still a lot of insightful bonus issues out there.

[ColsonJade]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Thunderforged Handwraps should be working.
Henshin's SLAs scale off of Melee Power now, and some should be dealing damage per Monk level (as opposed to every 2).
Several abilities got reduced to 1AP per rank.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)
Each Elemental Strike (in Henshin), as well as Touch of Death, now has its own unique cooldown.


What about Whirlwind Attack?

[MeliCat]

What about Whirlwind Attack?

Curious about that too...

[Zebedar]

This version includes a bunch of polish to U33 content, several fixes for the monk and handwraps,


Really? are any of them a fix to the two year old Critical multiplier bug for thrown weapons that is afflicting the new Ninja capstone as it has swashbucklers or are we supposed to keep pretending thats not happening? Seriously? what is it going to take for you jokers to even discuss this huh?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479735-Hey-Developers-the-Crit-Multiplier-on-Ninja-Capstone-broken-sound-familiar

[HuneyMunster]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)



Do monks still get their full ability modifier to hit and damage with their offhand? Also in terms of TWF are they considered light weapons and qualify as finesse?

[Ulfo]

Really? are any of them a fix to the two year old Critical multiplier bug for thrown weapons that is afflicting the new Ninja capstone as it has swashbucklers or are we supposed to keep pretending thats not happening? Seriously? what is it going to take for you jokers to even discuss this huh?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479735-Hey-Developers-the-Crit-Multiplier-on-Ninja-Capstone-broken-sound-familiar

I double a question! So, bug prevent all abilities to add crit multiplier to thrown weapon will be fixed too? Or devs still ignore this issue forever?

[Zebedar]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Thunderforged Handwraps should be working.
Henshin's SLAs scale off of Melee Power now, and some should be dealing damage per Monk level (as opposed to every 2).
Several abilities got reduced to 1AP per rank.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)
Each Elemental Strike (in Henshin), as well as Touch of Death, now has its own unique cooldown.


Hey sounds good!

But what about fixing that broken Ninja capstone ability before it goes live? The crit multiplier for thrown weapons is broken by the very same bug that has been on the Known Issues list for two years for swash bucklers!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479735-Hey-Developers-the-Crit-Multiplier-on-Ninja-Capstone-broken-sound-familiar

[robrocks15]

A few specific things to note:


A lot of Handwrap bugs are fixed - You should be getting proper ability score bonuses to Hit and Damage, and +[W] effects from things like Reinforced Fists should work.
Thunderforged Handwraps should be working.
Henshin's SLAs scale off of Melee Power now, and some should be dealing damage per Monk level (as opposed to every 2).
Several abilities got reduced to 1AP per rank.
Two Weapon Fighting, Offhand attacks, and Offhand doublestrike should now be working with Handwraps while you're standing still - (the portion while moving should be in before Live release!)
Each Elemental Strike (in Henshin), as well as Touch of Death, now has its own unique cooldown.



Reinforced Fists isn't working - the version that states "Improves by 1 half die" (from Arkat's Cord elite in my test case) doesn't have any effect when wielding Handwraps but does when wielding nothing.
Ability score bonuses to Damage don't appear to be working with Handwraps, at least for Dex to damage - in the test I've just done my Handwraps show 2.3[1d6] + 31 damage yet I just hit a Training Dummy for 27 damage. If the display is right my damage range should be 33.3-44.8 yet I'm seeing 27-37. Unarmed I'm seeing the numbers I expect from the display; 23-33.
Improved Critical Bludgeoning doesn't have any effect when wielding Handwraps but does when wielding nothing.
Shintao T5 enhancement Empty Hand Mastery is doing absolutely nothing - no Critical Threat Range nor Multiplier increase.
Tempest Core 1 Shield of Whirling Steel isn't treating Handwraps as "dual wielding weapons". This may be intentional, but now that Handwraps are weapons this text is misleading.
Offhand attacks are indeed working when standing still with regular attacks. Not as smoothly as on live though - there's more of a lag between the hits.
Offhand attacks are getting the exact same ability bonus as main hand attacks.
Whirlwind Attack is only hitting once (no second hit, no offhand).
Cleave is giving no offhand attack.

[TPICKRELL]

Reinforced Fists isn't working - the version that states "Improves by 1 half die" (from Arkat's Cord elite in my test case) doesn't have any effect when wielding Handwraps but does when wielding nothing.
Ability score bonuses to Damage don't appear to be working with Handwraps, at least for Dex to damage - in the test I've just done my Handwraps show 2.3[1d6] + 31 damage yet I just hit a Training Dummy for 27 damage. If the display is right my damage range should be 33.3-44.8 yet I'm seeing 27-37. Unarmed I'm seeing the numbers I expect from the display; 23-33.
Improved Critical Bludgeoning doesn't have any effect when wielding Handwraps but does when wielding nothing.
Shintao T5 enhancement Empty Hand Mastery is doing absolutely nothing - no Critical Threat Range nor Multiplier increase.
Tempest Core 1 Shield of Whirling Steel isn't treating Handwraps as "dual wielding weapons". This may be intentional, but now that Handwraps are weapons this text is misleading.
Offhand attacks are indeed working when standing still with regular attacks. Not as smoothly as on live though - there's more of a lag between the hits.
Offhand attacks are getting the exact same ability bonus as main hand attacks.
Whirlwind Attack is only hitting once (no second hit, no offhand).
Cleave is giving no offhand attack.



Unless whirlwind and cleaves is fixed to be similar to live, most or all of the overall DPS gain will be offset.

[Gargoyle69]

Mediation of War doesn't stack properly with Vigor of Battle and Strength of Vitality from Unyielding Sentinel (toggling on MoW when you have Strength of Vitality and/or Vigor of Battle active will actually *reduce* your hit points instead of increasing them)
Intolerant Blows is not working with wraps to increase the +1[W], before using, 12.3[1d6], after using, 12.3[1d6]
Things that increase Critical threat & Multiplier do not appear to be working at all, including Improved Critical (no change to threat range), Overwhelming Critical (no change to multiplier), Empty Hand Mastery (no change to either threat range or multiplier). Tested Thunderforged Wraps (showed 20/x2), Epic Scraps (showed 19-20/x2), and Antipode (showed 18-20/x2) regardless of having Imp Crit, O. Crit & EHM.
The Elemental Curatives line which says it adds +1 to hit and dmg with wraps while centers per enhancement, does not add any bonuses to hit or damage according to the calculation in the Inventory Window details section. With zero enhancements from that line, +88 to hit, +51 dmg. With 4/4 of the line taken, +88 to hit, +51 dmg.
DC's of monk special abilities are in basically two groups: workable and unworkable. On a pure monk with Epic Tactician feat, 52 Wis (yes, I know that's low), Epic Boots of the Innocent & Adamantine Cloak of the Bear, in GMoF w/ Legendary Tactics twisted DC's looked like this:

- 1) workable (Stunning Fist: 81 vs Fortitude, Kukan-Do: 86 vs Will, Unbalancing Strike: 86 vs Reflex),
- 2) unworkable (Quivering Palm: 56 vs Fortitude, Smite Tainted Creature/Jade Strike/Jade Tomb: 51 vs Will, Ki Bolt/Incinerating Wave/Cauldron of Flame: 51 vs Reflex)



Steelstar - can you please comment on the dichotomy of these two groups of DC's ? Is this intended ?

[Steelstar]

I noticed none of the stacking issues with monk were addressed in this update. Is this slated to be looked at before this goes live? There are still a lot of insightful bonus issues out there.
I believe we've caught most of them this point, they didn't quite make it in time for the Lamannia build (we had a very short window between Lamannia #1 opening and taking the build for Lamannia #2 - I mainly focused on getting Handwraps in shape).


What about Whirlwind Attack?
To be honest: It's not likely to change for U33, but we will see what we can do for it in an upcoming patch. I'd like to see it work the way it used to as well, at least for Handwraps.


Do monks still get their full ability modifier to hit and damage with their offhand? Also in terms of TWF are they considered light weapons and qualify as finesse?
Yes and yes.


So, bug prevent all abilities to add crit multiplier to thrown weapon will be fixed too?
Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.





Mediation of War doesn't stack properly with Vigor of Battle and Strength of Vitality from Unyielding Sentinel (toggling on MoW when you have Strength of Vitality and/or Vigor of Battle active will actually *reduce* your hit points instead of increasing them)
Intolerant Blows is not working with wraps to increase the +1[W], before using, 12.3[1d6], after using, 12.3[1d6]
Things that increase Critical threat & Multiplier do not appear to be working at all, including Improved Critical (no change to threat range), Overwhelming Critical (no change to multiplier), Empty Hand Mastery (no change to either threat range or multiplier). Tested Thunderforged Wraps (showed 20/x2), Epic Scraps (showed 19-20/x2), and Antipode (showed 18-20/x2) regardless of having Imp Crit, O. Crit & EHM.
The Elemental Curatives line which says it adds +1 to hit and dmg with wraps while centers per enhancement, does not add any bonuses to hit or damage according to the calculation in the Inventory Window details section. With zero enhancements from that line, +88 to hit, +51 dmg. With 4/4 of the line taken, +88 to hit, +51 dmg.
DC's of monk special abilities are in basically two groups: workable and unworkable. On a pure monk with Epic Tactician feat, 52 Wis (yes, I know that's low), Epic Boots of the Innocent & Adamantine Cloak of the Bear, in GMoF w/ Legendary Tactics twisted DC's looked like this:

- 1) workable (Stunning Fist: 81 vs Fortitude, Kukan-Do: 86 vs Will, Unbalancing Strike: 86 vs Reflex),
- 2) unworkable (Quivering Palm: 56 vs Fortitude, Smite Tainted Creature/Jade Strike/Jade Tomb: 51 vs Will, Ki Bolt/Incinerating Wave/Cauldron of Flame: 51 vs Reflex)



Steelstar - can you please comment on the dichotomy of these two groups of DC's ? Is this intended ?

Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

[TPICKRELL]

I believe we've caught most of them this point, they didn't quite make it in time for the Lamannia build (we had a very short window between Lamannia #1 opening and taking the build for Lamannia #2 - I mainly focused on getting Handwraps in shape).


To be honest: It's not likely to change for U33, but we will see what we can do for it in an upcoming patch. I'd like to see it work the way it used to as well, at least for Handwraps.


Yes and yes.


Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.




Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

Thank you for your efforts.

Adding stunning to the strikes helps a lot!

Please make whirlwind a priority, loosing the extra AOE damage is a serious loss of DPS in end game where mass numbers of mobs are the norm.

thank you very much, I for one appreciate your efforts!

[HastyPudding]

Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

YES! Thank you! Finally, some progress on the major issue plaguing henshin and shintao: DC's.

I'm not sure how you're going to boost the DC's in henshin, though. Neither vertigo/tripping or shattering/sundering make much sense. It would seem odd to add stunning to everything a monk does, though.

[Ulfo]

Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.

Well... thank you for answer and clarification.

At least, it will save users from an expense of valuable AP/EDP on non-working options like Ninja capstone or Devastating Critical at char building.

It's mean also, of course, what Ninja capstone must be reworked to give actual benefits instead non-working crit multiplier.

[Morrell]

Any chance the Turbine gnomes can whip up some GS and LGS handwraps since wraps are now weapons? Keep the monk love coming!

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Please make whirlwind a priority, loosing the extra AOE damage is a serious loss of DPS in end game where mass numbers of mobs are the norm.

I agree. Monks without whirlwind attack are like trees without leaves.

[Nonesuch2008]

Overall, I am pleased with the direction that monks & handwraps are going, this is good to see & please do keep the refinements coming. I want to see if monks' defensive prowess and agility can make them sustainable in the longer, more drawn out battles, especially in epics.

What happened with the last update and the Revels keys though? I was able to get into Heyweird before the patch, and now I can't with these rusty Revels keys that are being given out. The Revels keys aren't available in the store either. Can we change one or the other so that we can gain entrance to the challenges, please?

[HuneyMunster]

YES! Thank you! Finally, some progress on the major issue plaguing henshin and shintao: DC's.

I'm not sure how you're going to boost the DC's in henshin, though. Neither vertigo/tripping or shattering/sundering make much sense. It would seem odd to add stunning to everything a monk does, though.

If its any of these then I guess trip would make most sense as at least they would share Unbalancing Strike DC booster as well as both being reflex save. The only other option is general tactical feats and enhancements as well as Combat Mastery items.




I agree. Monks without whirlwind attack are like trees without leaves.

This should at least be quote of the day.

[btolson]

To be honest: [Whirlwind]'s not likely to change for U33, but we will see what we can do for it in an upcoming patch. I'd like to see it work the way it used to as well, at least for Handwraps.


For the love of the gods, please make this a decent feat for everyone when you get around to mucking with it. This doesn't mean all weapon styles should be identical to unarmed, but right now it's just a waste of feat for anyone who isn't unarmed. It could be as simple as just giving it an identical animation and effect as Great Cleave for non-wraps weapons, and I would be ecstatic.





Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

I think you need to create a new "Ninjutsu Tactics" bonus or something like that. You might want to name it something more generic/broad, in case you want to someday apply it to DC abilities in other trees/ED's.

In the near term, you don't have to worry about fully itemzing the new bonus, just
1) get the abilities hooked up to benefit from "Ninjutsu Tactics"
2) change Combat Mastery/Insightful Combat Mastery to provide an appropriate amount of "Ninjutsu Tactics" as part of its effect package.

[Zebedar]

Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.


What the heck are you talking about Steel?! It's a TWO YEAR OLD PROBLEM!!! Why should you need to "get it pushed back up" for gods sake man it has been on the Known Issues list for two years, and I KNOW FOR A FACT that you and other developers have been asked about it both during Dev events on Lamma for the last two years plus literally dozens and dozens of times in threads. So why in the bloody world would it need to be "pushed (back) up in the priority list again"?!!!


You gents KNEW that there was a problem with thowing weapons Crit multiplier, I repeat YOU KNEW THERE WAS A PROBLEM For the last two years, so my question is what did you do to try and fix it before debuting the new Ninja master capstone? seriously what did you guys do? did you do anything at all? or did you just hope that it would somehow work on ninja master even though it was broken on everything else?

Or much worse, did you guys just included it on Ninja Master knowing it wouldn't work because YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO FIX THAT TWO YEAR OLD BUG?!! And now are you just playing the same darn game you did with Swashbuckler, releasing this bugged ability and going on with no intention of fixing it ever? Sounds far fetched eh? but that's exactly what you have done with the swash buckler and the rest for the LAST TWO YEARS! Look how many times this darn problem was brought up on that "one thing" thread, posters banged on and on about it and then you went and made a new CAPSTONE ABILITY that features thrown weapon crit multiplier without even fixing it...

What the heck man, that is so obnoxious and insulting to us as players and customers who have been waiting and posting about it and reading the empty lip-service about it in the "one thing" thread.

Sort yourselves out and stop trying to hide from the Crit multiplier and all the other items on the Known Issues list.


#fixthebugsfirst

[Zebedar]

I agree. Monks without whirlwind attack are like trees without leaves.

Typical to see half the year?

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I agree. Monks without whirlwind attack are like trees without leaves.

Brace yourself... winter is coming!

(Sorry, had to be done. I mean, that's when trees are without leaves and all *g* )

[ColsonJade]

I believe we've caught most of them this point, they didn't quite make it in time for the Lamannia build (we had a very short window between Lamannia #1 opening and taking the build for Lamannia #2 - I mainly focused on getting Handwraps in shape).


To be honest: It's not likely to change for U33, but we will see what we can do for it in an upcoming patch. I'd like to see it work the way it used to as well, at least for Handwraps.


Yes and yes.


Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.


Yes and yes.


Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.




Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

Thank you for the response.

Losing Whirlwind is a big loss for monks. I for one would be happy to delay the monk update until you have Whirlwind working correctly. In my opinion there is no need to hurry making handwraps weapons unless you are giving monks greensteel and legendry greensteel handwraps too.

Sincerely
ColsonJade

[irnimnode]

why did they shut down Lamannia?

[HuneyMunster]

Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Jade Strike now add Stunning DCs.

How does Jade Strikes 10% vulnerability stack with for example Thunder-forged wraps with 1st Degree Burns?

Is their a hard cap of 20 and 10 stacks of 1st Degree Burns would increase it to the max of 20?

Or would you require getting 11 stacks of vulnerability from 1st Degree Burns before any additional vulnerability is increased?

Or would it be possible to get to 30% vulnerability?

I would think that it should not stack with other effects, but not sure if for example Warlocks Stricken Form enhancement stacks 1st Degree Burns either.

I think Stricken form applies to all attacks both spells and melee attack while Jade strike is melee damage only.

[boredman]

Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

Even stunning fist has a low dc for end game content on pure monks. Please don't forget to give shintao cores 12, 18 and 20 at least +4 tactical dc per each core, for +12 dc total at lvl 20, along with prr and ac boosts. Currently, monks are forced to multiclass 12 fighter levels on stunning fist monks to reach a semi decent stunning fist dc for end game content.

Also quivering palm is currently very useless unless can reach at least a dc in the middle 90s (at level 30) at least, if giving abilities or finishers that lowers enemies fortitude saves to help. (thats like 30 more dc needed on tha ability to make it useful again, please check the difficulry checks for end game content)

[Gargoyle69]

Most of the above has been fixed internally, hoping to get to the remainder soon. Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others.

Sincere thanks Steelstar, on all 3 counts.

[BigErkyKid]

What is going on with Henshin? I understand that the focus was on wraps, but we have seen almost nothing in the henshin front.

I run some numbers here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479774-Henshin-let-s-keep-it-in-one-thread

And the damage that the special abilities put out is mostly a joke for epics.

Let's assume 260 melee power, which is at best an upper bound. This means a 3.6 multiplier to the base damage.


Incinerating wave ~ 291 one direction AOE
At monk 20 this is 3.5*6 + 3.5*6 +20 +20= 41+41= 81
81*3.6=291.6

Ki-bolt ~ 432 single target
At monk 20 this is 3.5*20 + 2.5*20 = 70 + 50
120*3.6=432

Cauldron ~ currently non functional


Void strike: 122.5 single target
3.5*10*3.5=122.5

Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light:abysmal damage in a tier 5.


Lighting the candle: abysmal damage.

I mean even if you allow for the DCs to be boosted by stunning / combat mastery, the damage is so ridiculously low that it is not worth the effort.

For the non damage abilities, like focus, embrace the void, or the -2 fire resistance to enemies...I simply don't know what to say, they are completely useless in epic play.

Can we have a word on this? Is henshin mystic not meant to use its core abilities? Honestly, unless I am missing something, this feels extremely disappointing. It would be SO EASY to just pump the damage to some decent levels, you don't even need to change the animations or what not.

[Steve_Howe]

why did they shut down Lamannia?

I'd like to know this, too.

[HastyPudding]

I'd like to know this, too.

Maybe a new build?

[Wizza]

Maybe a new build?

Update is wednesday-ish. I'm quite sure these "two" days were all the preview we got for U33.

[MeliCat]

Can someone clarify for me what Steel means here? "Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others."

So this is that stunning items will add to those DCs? At the moment stunning items only add to stunning fist. In discussion I understand that QP cannot be made the equivalent to a caster's FoD as it doesn't have those additional epic feats which allow that. Any guesses why there is a reluctance to allow monks to have realistic insta-death expectations? It's only for trash. What would be the game balance rationale?

[Zebedar]

why did they shut down Lamannia?

Educated guess: because it couldn't withstand the scrutiny of testers and the developers were unwilling to acknowledge the problems much less fix them. So they pulled it down to quiet the clamor ahead of the BUGGED UPDATE.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[HastyPudding]

Can someone clarify for me what Steel means here? "Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others."

So this is that stunning items will add to those DCs? At the moment stunning items only add to stunning fist. In discussion I understand that QP cannot be made the equivalent to a caster's FoD as it doesn't have those additional epic feats which allow that. Any guesses why there is a reluctance to allow monks to have realistic insta-death expectations? It's only for trash. What would be the game balance rationale?

My guess would be yes: stunning items will affect jade strike, jade tomb, and smite creature (just like stunning fist and kukan-do). These three abilities have a stun-like effect (locking a target as a jade statue and making them helpless) so the logical reasoning would be to add stunning items to their DC.

[Gargoyle69]

Can someone clarify for me what Steel means here? "Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others."

So this is that stunning items will add to those DCs? At the moment stunning items only add to stunning fist. In discussion I understand that QP cannot be made the equivalent to a caster's FoD as it doesn't have those additional epic feats which allow that. Any guesses why there is a reluctance to allow monks to have realistic insta-death expectations? It's only for trash. What would be the game balance rationale?

I can clarify what I *HOPE* he meant, but only he can say what he actually meant.

I posted DC's were in 2 categories, the workable (Stunning Fist, Unbalancing Strike, the new Wis-based Kukan-Do), and the unworkable that are approx 30 pts lower at end game (the Shintao Tainted Creature line, the Henshin core abilities, and Quivering Palm), and asked Steelstar if this was intentional, he responded with "Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others."

So, the Shintao strikes will now use Stunning item boosts to DC's, exactly as Stunning Fist & Kukan-Do do (Unbalancing Strike already uses Trip bonuses).

He's going to take a look at something to boost the others. What I *HOPE* that means, is he's going to take a look at something to boost *BOTH* the Henshin cores, *AND* Quivering Palm. But he would have to confirm what his exact intentions are.

What I'd personally love to see is QP using Assassinate item bonuses (fits thematically) and the Henshin ones using Trip or Sunder item bonuses (not quite as good a fit thematically but pretty good mechanically I think, plus I think a nice way to boost the viability of the Henshin cores would be to add a debuff element to them, in which case Sunder fits even better). This would spread out the bonuses to different item types allowing monks more "meaningful choices" (ie broad or specialised).

Hopefully he can clarify when he comes online.

Edit: the one other group of DC's which would be awesome to do something with are the Finishing Moves. The triple-elemental ones, almost all of the dark path finishers and shining star are all in the same category. Steel - any chance you can comment on likelihood of this please ?

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Can someone clarify for me what Steel means here? "Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs. Will take a look at something to boost the others."

So this is that stunning items will add to those DCs? At the moment stunning items only add to stunning fist. In discussion I understand that QP cannot be made the equivalent to a caster's FoD as it doesn't have those additional epic feats which allow that. Any guesses why there is a reluctance to allow monks to have realistic insta-death expectations? It's only for trash. What would be the game balance rationale?


My guess would be yes: stunning items will affect jade strike, jade tomb, and smite creature (just like stunning fist and kukan-do). These three abilities have a stun-like effect (locking a target as a jade statue and making them helpless) so the logical reasoning would be to add stunning items to their DC.

MY guess would be the opposite, actually... these abilities currently (on the internal build that wasn't on Lama yet) add DCs to Stunning Fist/Blow (much like some AA enhancements give Enchantment bonuses). They won't be affected by stunning items, merely increase the efficacy of those. And Steel will be looking into ways to boost the DCs of QP, the Jade line, etc. I agree that having the Jade line, at least, be affected by stunning items would be logical, but the rest of 'em, notsomuch. They could, however, add stuff to enhancements that boost them, much like they added boosts to stunning in the Jade line.

[HastyPudding]

MY guess would be the opposite, actually... these abilities currently (on the internal build that wasn't on Lama yet) add DCs to Stunning Fist/Blow (much like some AA enhancements give Enchantment bonuses). They won't be affected by stunning items, merely increase the efficacy of those. And Steel will be looking into ways to boost the DCs of QP, the Jade line, etc. I agree that having the Jade line, at least, be affected by stunning items would be logical, but the rest of 'em, notsomuch. They could, however, add stuff to enhancements that boost them, much like they added boosts to stunning in the Jade line.

On live, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do

On live after update 33, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do
Jade Strike
Jade Tomb
Smite Tainted Creature

I don't see what the misunderstanding is...

[BigErkyKid]

On live, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do

On live after update 33, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do
Jade Strike
Jade Tomb
Smite Tainted Creature

I don't see what the misunderstanding is...

The misunderstanding comes from the fact that monks have a plethora of abilities beyond those. At this point I don't even know if they are aware of the existence of the dark finishers or the he shin cores. So people are surprised at the fact that very few of the finishers and abilities are mentioned and the hope it's just a communication problem. I don think it is, it is a problem of time allocated to the project.

Let's be very honest here: this is not a monk pass, this is a wrap pass. Everything else has been barely touched or updated in a heavy handed way, like for instance MP to the cores of he shin.

I have yet to see a single poster satisfied with the update.

[MeliCat]

On live, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do

On live after update 33, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do
Jade Strike
Jade Tomb
Smite Tainted Creature

I don't see what the misunderstanding is...


Thanks.

Good to have these changes. I mean, a max cha monk would be totally awesome but the change to wisdom was sensible.

It was just the way Steel wrote it. My apologies for not understanding Steel.

[Steelstar]

To be honest: It's not likely to change for U33, but we will see what we can do for it in an upcoming patch. I'd like to see it work the way it used to as well, at least for Handwraps.


Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.

[TPICKRELL]

Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.

Thank You!

Any update on the extra PRR and Melee power you were thinking about for Shintao?

[Steve_Howe]

Any update on the extra PRR and Melee power you were thinking about for Shintao?

Am curious about this, too.

An easy way to address the PRR issue would be to just double the amount given by the Ironskin enhancement.

As far as Melee Power goes, just add an appropriate amount for each core like +5 for the first 5 cores and then +10 for the last (capstone) core.

I'd do that and call it a day.

[domnslave]

Cordovan, Steelstar or any other dev..... why is Lamannia closed at the moment? Would like to do some more testing and tinkering. Any word on when you'll have it opened again? Also I would like to pipe in on the whole unarmed combat from a NON-MONK perspective. Can we please have the +[w] for unarmed by tied to character level and not strictly monk based. I ask this because what if we would like to go the unarmed raging barbarian like you mentioned earlier, or other interesting combinations. It would allow for more versatility (as an exotic weapon, there is no reason for you not to finally give us greensteel and legendary greensteel wraps). I'm not sure how easy that would be to code, perhaps have the extra [w] be tied to the ML of the handwraps themselves?

[Paisheng]

Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.

Thank you for getting this fix in for u33 -- or most of it. And thanks for updating the fans! Please continue with other notes like this as you accomplish them (i.e. Shintao PRR & Melee Power, dc improvements for QP or finishers, etc.). Again THANKS!

[TPICKRELL]

Am curious about this, too.

An easy way to address the PRR issue would be to just double the amount given by the Ironskin enhancement.

As far as Melee Power goes, just add an appropriate amount for each core like +5 for the first 5 cores and then +10 for the last (capstone) core.

I'd do that and call it a day.

I'd rather the new PRR was spread in the cores as well. A straight up 30 PRR in a tier 2 enhancement is too much low hanging fruit for multi-class monks. I do most of my past lives as multiclass monk/rogues and I'd love that change, but its too much for a tier 2.

Also the Shintao capstone is very weak especially since a portion of the value is linked to a so-so tier 5 enhancement. So I'd like to see at least a bit of an extra chunk of the melee power and prr assigned to the 18 core and the capstone.

[Zebedar]

Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.

And the two year old crit bug for thrown weapons you decided to include in the update? what about it?

[Propane]

Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.

Fantastic~! Thanks for the extra effort.

After the push for the update - it would be great to see what clean up items you have in the queue for the 1st patch - help us stay focused and centered with our posts.
Good communication is KI to success!

[Gargoyle69]

Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.

That's a pretty good compromise given the time constraints. Thanks Steel. Again.

[Gargoyle69]

Fantastic~!... stay focused and centered with our posts ... Good communication is KI to success!

OMFG ! :cool:

[Nonesuch2008]

Am curious about this, too.

An easy way to address the PRR issue would be to just double the amount given by the Ironskin enhancement.

As far as Melee Power goes, just add an appropriate amount for each core like +5 for the first 5 cores and then +10 for the last (capstone) core.

I'd do that and call it a day.

This is kind of where of was going in my previous post, if not doing something to supplement the PRR, perhaps an innate mystical dodge bonus, or even a combination of the two.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

On live, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do

On live after update 33, stunning tactics DC increases affect:
Stunning Fist
Kukan-Do
Jade Strike
Jade Tomb
Smite Tainted Creature

I don't see what the misunderstanding is...

The misunderstanding is, that's not how Steelstar's post reads. To me it reads like:

On live, stunning DCs are increased by:
WIS (Fist) or STR (Blow)
Stunning/Dazing items
Insightful Stunning/Combat Mastery items
Other effects that increase tactical DCs

In U33, stunning DCs will be increased by:
WIS (Fist) or STR (Blow)
Stunning/Dazing items
Insightful Stunning/Combat Mastery items
Other effects that increase tactical DCs
Smite Tainted Creature
Jade Tomb
Jade Strike

There's a significant difference in how we're interpreting what he says. "Smite Tainted Creature, Jade Strike, and Jade Tomb now add Stunning DCs." does NOT make it sound like "...now are affected by Stunning DCs". And since he was talking about it being "fixed internally", THAT sounds to me like it wasn't in the last Lama build for you to know otherwise from personal testing. If I'm wrong, great. But unless you know otherwise from actual testing, you can't be any more certain than I am which he meant. All I know for certain is what Steel has said, and how that reads to me.

[Ulfo]

And the two year old crit bug for thrown weapons you decided to include in the update? what about it?

Why you continue to bother with questions the answer on which is already given earlier on thread:


Not for U33, unfortunately. It's not a small or simple problem. I'll try to get it pushed (back) up the priority list again.

You only discredit us.

Now, after clarification this issue, how about add to Ninja capstone really worked benefits instead bugged and non-worked, Steelstar?

[Grailhawk]

Update to Whirlwind Attack: For U33, the first hit will act like the Weapon version does, but I've added back in the second hit (for Centered characters that are wielding Handwraps and have Monk animations, as before), which does benefit from Doublestrike/Off-Hand Attack chance. It's not 100% of where it was, but it's closer.


Why is Whirlwind only intended for unarmed/hand-wrap users?

I always thought the extra attacks they got with this feet were bugs, but if your fixing it to give extra attacks why not fix it for every one?

[Valakai]

Why is Whirlwind only intended for unarmed/hand-wrap users?

I always thought the extra attacks they got with this feet were bugs, but if your fixing it to give extra attacks why not fix it for every one?

Exactly. This is a really cool feat except that the prequisites are kind of steep. Then when you get it and realize that it in fact lowers your DPS when you use it....then you go to forums and read - yep does not work like supposed to. Then get a lesser heart to respec your character. I would really like to use this for my Rogue and Ranger builds for some decent melee AoE.

Are you worried it would be too powerful or is it just difficult to fix?