Cannith Crafting - Runearms and Challenge Gear

[NoWorries]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Overall - sounds good.

Cannith Challenge Gear:

Tier 3 - since loosing the crafting (and only gaining a slot) - loose the BtC and make it BtA.
Add Frozen Docent, and level 24 / 28 versions.
(Near Future) expand the Challenges to CR45


RuneArms:
Sounds Good.

Will the Int be fixed on that one Runearm at the same time?
Could and will all non-raid runearms that are currently BtC become Bta?



Keep up the solid hard work!

[btolson]

Just spit-balling, but couldn't you preemptively fill the 3rd slot with a dummy effect to reign in power?

Seems like you could also fill the prefix or suffix slot with a dummy effect, either preemptively when the item is spawned (in which case these items would only be capable of gaining either a prefix OR suffix effect, with the choice being predetermined in the item's blueprint by yourselves), or else as a side-effect of crafting an effect onto them (i.e, when you craft a prefix onto the item, at the same time the suffix is filled with a dummy effect, or vice versa).

[Tilomere]

So masterful craft all your runearms and challenge items and call it a day :)

Sounds fine. How about automatically converting all said craftable items into masterful crafted items with -2 level requirements, and stripping everything else away?

[UurlockYgmeov]

First - can't put Fire Lore and Combustion (both) on a back slot item in the new CC.

http://i.imgur.com/4rE31qx.pnghttp://ddowiki.com/images/Epic_Cloak_of_Flames.png



15 (Tier 3) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cloak_of_Flames_(Level_15))
BtC, Combustion +90 (http://ddowiki.com/page/Combustion), Fire Lore V (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Lore), Heightened Awareness (2) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Heightened_Awareness), Fire Absorption 15% (http://ddowiki.com/page/Energy_Absorption), Fire Shield (Hot) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fire_Shield),Craftable (+3) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Crafting)



http://i.imgur.com/DXMAk6N.pnghttp://ddowiki.com/images/Epic_Cloak_of_Flames.png



20 (Tier 3) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Cloak_of_Flames)
BtC, Combustion +90 (http://ddowiki.com/page/Combustion), Fire Lore VI (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Lore), Heightened Awareness (4) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Heightened_Awareness), Fire Absorption 20% (http://ddowiki.com/page/Energy_Absorption), Fire Shield (Hot) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fire_Shield),Inherent (10) Fire Resistance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fire_Resistance), Colorless Augment Slot (http://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Slot), Blue Augment Slot (http://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Slot)



http://i.imgur.com/XZxRHms.png <--- Just for Fun

[Stoner81]

Not happy about losing the crafting ability on the challenge items.

Stoner81.

[Bobby88888]

What if, for challenge items and rune arms both, you simply changed the existing craftable effect to the effect that allows for the addition of the 'extra' slot with the use of the mark of house C. Don't add a prefix slot and don't add a suffix slot, just the bonus effect slot.

Either way the power of the effects definitively needs to be re scaled and the T3 should be made BTA, especially if you go with your current proposition.

Also any news on what is happening with clickys and crafting? will they be added or not?

[Stoner81]

Also is this going to effect all festival items? I can't recall if items from say Crystal Cove are craftable (I think they are)?

Stoner81.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Also is this going to effect all festival items? I can't recall if items from say Crystal Cove are craftable (I think they are)?

Stoner81.

They are not. Only Cannith Challenge Gear can be upgraded to allow for crafting.

[wonko_the_sane]

The challenge gear, as is and as proposed, gives me little incentive to run the challenges - They could use an upgrade and now seems like a good time to do it. It seems to me that when you completely upgrade a challenge item it should be more powerful than a crafted item or random loot.

I think Artficers could use some love and making runearms more powerful could be a quick and easy way to do that. Even if they are crazy overpowered compared to other weapons, since they can only be used by one class would that be so bad? Might even get some folks to spend more TP buying Artificer.

In fact, why remove the current crafting possibilities on either of these types of items at all? {check out the "Kundarak crafting" thread}. Just add the ability to craft 1-3 more effects with new Cannith crafting and call it good.

[GeoffWatson]

That makes the tier 3 challenge gear a lot less useful. Some of the items are only worth making because of the crafting options (eg adding Holy to the Elemental Greataxe of Fire (which has Metalline)).

At least make them BtA.

[dunklezhan]

What if, for challenge items and rune arms both, you simply changed the existing craftable effect to the effect that allows for the addition of the 'extra' slot with the use of the mark of house C. Don't add a prefix slot and don't add a suffix slot, just the bonus effect slot.




Agree with this.

[Faltout]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.
What about this:
You allow the challenge gear to be crafted on and you use the craftable level instead of the Minimum Level to determine the power of the crafted effects.

To do that, you could change the design of the shards to read the adjusted minimum level instead of the actual minimum level of the item. Then code the craftable +3 or +1 to create an "adjusted minimum level" property of ML3 or ML1. The minimum level of the item would still be the initial level of the item for the purposes of checking whether a character can wear it, but the scaling effects would read the adjusted level to decide the power.

Doing that would also enable you to create future crafting systems or named items that have different Minimum Levels and Power Levels. For example you could introduce a raid crafting shard that would add a +1 or +2 to an item's adjusted level and thus increasing the power of its effects.

The outcome for challenge gear would be that we are now able to add 2 non-scaling effects (since there can't be a bonus effect below level 10) or 2 very weak scaling effects (just like it is now with challenge gear).



Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.

Same proposal goes for runearms. And the list of effects for runearms has always been that of a trinket slot. Why change that now?

[Gabrael]

aw, but I like customizing my rune arms with more options... or cannith gear for that matter, I got way more leeway via crafting than I do with augments, augments have a very restrictive list of stuff, and crafting had so many fun little effects I could use.

why can't crafting named item NOT have 3 slots?

for rune arms because it count as a trinket? should you make trinket not able to use masterful on them? how about instead of having rune arm count as a trinket for option purposes, it count as its own unique item, rune arms? and make masterful not being applicable to rune arms?

there are not THAT many cannith gear, they are unique, no way at all to restrict what can be crafted on a named gear?

what will happen to my current crafted ones, tier 2 and tier 3? will I be able to stone change it? even if my item end up weaker I don't like using a non existant system, I would rather downgrade it to the new system than redoing it from scratch,

maybe a deconstruction option for cannith gear to give back ingredients?

[vms4ever]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.


I dont' think I like this. Not to hammer this into the ground but using Toven's Hammer as an example. Fully upgraded (but not crafted) has
Min level 19 (kept)
Electrical Storm (is this the "spell itself"?)
Transform Kinetic
Insightful Int +2
Max charge tier V (kept)
Lightning Strike
Potency
Exceptional Fortification
Rune arm imbue Electrical IV (kept)

To key Toven's Hammer for crafting and have it stripped of what makes it Toven's Hammer is (in my opinion) not a good thing.
(Not that it would be a good thing to be able to double or triple the DPS (for example) of Toven's Hammer by crafting it.)

I would almost rather the crafting slots on the named rune arms be replaced with augment slots and new rune arm blanks be created that were intended to be crafted to make them useful.

[kmoustakas]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.


I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the runearms. Could we have a specific example? Are you saying that for example if I craft on toven's hammer I would loose the potency but retain the lightning strike and torc effect?

It's very hard to comment without specific examples. But please do not give us examples of done things, give us an example so we can offer feedback on it.

[CeltEireson]

I am not sure I understand what you are saying about the runearms. Could we have a specific example? Are you saying that for example if I craft on toven's hammer I would loose the potency but retain the lightning strike and torc effect?

It's very hard to comment without specific examples. But please do not give us examples of done things, give us an example so we can offer feedback on it.

I suspect they'll remove any effect that crafting could possibly create - so for Tovens hammer the +2 int, potency and exceptional fortification would go but the other unique abilities that can't be recreated with crafting would stay.

[CeltEireson]

I'm okay with the way you're doing runearms BUT only if we get a list of the craftable runearms stating what effects would be kept and what would be lost so we can have a discussion about individual items if necessary. But given that we can replace what was lost with three bonuses of our choosing (limited by whatever bonuses you allow for runearms) I think in most cases it would be beneficial as stated; however we would need to have an idea of what bonuses you're allowing for runearms before we could really comment fully. I assume those runearms that inflict some kind of penalty would keep the penalty? ;)

As far as the challenge gear goes - I can understand the decision though also that folk would be unhappy about it - having exceptions to the rules means more complicated code and more chance for bugs, as well as issues about the power level. In addition to the slot (which I assume is additional given that some items already have one) I think a relook at the power level of the gear would probably be the best way to placate folk and its probably overdue particularly for the epic versions, as would the challenge gear in Eveningstar. That's true of a lot of old named gear when compared to more recently released items and the new random loot but that's for another thread.

Just had a quick look at the list of named runearms - it would appear that only older heroic runearms have the option for crafting - more recent heroic and apparently all epic don't have the option at all as they have augment slots instead, so this doesn't effect all runearms.

[kmoustakas]

I suspect they'll remove any effect that crafting could possibly create - so for Tovens hammer the +2 int, potency and exceptional fortification would go but the other unique abilities that can't be recreated with crafting would stay.

That sounds fine actually. It would give you the option of actually KEEPING it as is, or making it better. And truth be told, +2 int or +48 potency is nothing in today's world. Or for that matter, +6 spell critical on lucid dreams. But if they would loose the convert kinetic energy or the lightning strike that would be terrible.

[Ebondevil]

What would be the issues of having ALL named items applicable for the Mark of House Cannith to get the extra slot (not the Prefix Suffix) for a little customization, without loosing the basic intent of the named item

This could then apply to Runearms, Cannith Challenge Gear, Crystal cove, etc. etc.

[Gene8808]

It's a shame to see the Cannith Challenge gear lose the ability to have modifiers crafted onto it as I recall Challenge gear being craftable as one of the 'highlights' of the crafting system.

That said, if it's buffed to be balanced with other gear in its level range, I'm okay with that. I'd obviously like to see the ability to craft on it stay, but if it's going to cause balance issues, I'm okay with the loss. That you'd be adding augment slots to offset the loss of ability to craft on them is a good compromise, I think, especially since I've heard mention that there are eventual plans to overhaul the augment system.

[RD2play]

I would love for the Challenge gear to keep some form of crafting on them, it is what makes them Cannith. I would say only the extra slot would suffice next to an augment slot, no need for a pre-/suffix as those are taken by the items initial effects.

Same for rune arms though I could live with the proposed change.

[UurlockYgmeov]

It looks like the Frozen Tunic, Cloak of Flames, Rock Boots, Ring of Master Artifice, Blasting Chime, and Bracers of Wind will all suffer a lose of 1 point of Spell Lore.

Maybe Add +1 Artifact Bonus to compensate? (at least don't let them lose that point of Spell Lore).

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I would almost rather the crafting slots on the named rune arms be replaced with augment slots and new rune arm blanks be created that were intended to be crafted to make them useful.

I like this idea.... I especially like the idea of blank runearms lol

I think ditching crafting on the Cannith items is the wrong way to go. I think they just need to be hardwired to only allow one, maybe two slots; current items don't really allow more than one semi-decent effect anyway.

Either way, I REALLY like the ideas to keep T3s BtA. That's always irked me no end, to the point where I've only ever made one T3 (an epic Blasting Chime for my bard... which my other character currently going through a bard life can't use, even though my bard's about to TR into something else...)

[Kielbasa]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


Level appropriate effects and an augment slot for all tier 3 items yes please. I would also consider allowing one of a crafted: prefix/suffix or insightful effect. As others have said allowing the items to retain some of their flexibility would be nice.

Oh and replace undead bane with Ghostbane on all of the mournelode weapons please. Also feel free to add a pair of handwraps to the loot tables because monks.

[Enderoc]

In other words

Devs- Dis jus 2 hard, we scrap whole ding ... Here have augment slot

[elvesunited]

I had to look up that Cannith Challenge items allow you to craft on them. All my Cannith challenge items were level 20. I don't bother with non-epic challenge rewards.

As for the Rune Arms ....

Toven's Hammer:
Lightning Strike Weapons Potency +48 Exceptional Fortification (+10%) upgrade:+2 Insight int upgrade 2: transform kinetic energy

Lightning Strike Weapons is pretty much an enhancement unique to Toven's Hammer so you'd probably keep that on it. I can't imagine they'd remove either of the upgrade bonuses. So they'd lose the +48 potency and +10% fortification for enhanced crafting power on the rune arm? Be still my beating heart! That's not a bad trade in the slightest. I'm pretty sure the artificer is getting much higher electric / repair spell power bonuses from other equipment. he'll never miss it.

Lucid Dreams:
Nightmare Guard Potency +48 Spell Lore VI Mind Drain Will Save -2

Nightmare guard is pretty close to unique. ( only cloak of night as other source) Mind Drain I suppose is also unique. That leaves Potency, Spell Lore VI, and Will save -2 in exchange for enhanced crafting power. These are hardly game changer enhancements and the artificer will almost certainly strive to get superior force crit and force spellpower from other sources. Leaving only the -2 will saves which they'd want to get rid of. Even if you go whole hog and get rid on Nightmare guard, if you get rid of Mind Drain at the same time it almost a wash.

This doesn't look lie a curse. But a significant power upgrade for these rune arms with some clutter clean up when removing the existing heroic level enhancements already part of the rune arm.

[Lord_Asmodeus]

Do not take any effects that came with the rune arms, good or bad. I will miss being able to Masterful them, but can live without it. However instead of a 3rd slot perhaps we can change shot pattern for the rune arm. Ie think Luci Dream with a Toven's hammer blast! could make for some unique runearms.

[alancarp]

Cannith Challenge gear... would really like to see one more challenge rewards trader NPC who gives you Level 24-scaled gear. I wouldn't think it would be _that_ hard to do, and might assuage those concerned about losing the crafting ability on that stuff (also: scale the challenges to Level 30... I'm having to constantly hold back one of my toons in the Level 21-25 range just so that I can farm epic ingredients when needed).

On the new crafting system: the only concern I have involves the number and quantity of collectibles required. Since there is no way to reliably go out and farm a particular ingredient, then it will be practically impossible to craft up any item to fulfill a need within a reasonable time frame if you don't happen to already have 30 slime molds or whatever. Either the drop rates of all collectibles need to be dramatically increased (not a great idea) or the quantities need to be reduced.

(My initial concern was that essence availability was going to be a problem... turns out that's not an issue at all. The real problem is the volume of specific collectibles required: you've improved the simplicity of the process by going to a single essence, but replaced those 12 essence types with a greater need for 60-ish different collectibles - so it's truly the same complexity as before!)

[Arkai]

First of all, the new crafting system is impressive: congratulations.

About the rune arms, my thoughts are that you should remove the craftable ability... by now.

Save the process until the Artificer Pass, since you don't want to mess things anymore and makes sense, just the same way you are doing with monk/wraps.


When arti pass comes, get the runes and see what kind of approach you really want. Add power, look the imbues, adjust the effects. Those are old devices and the game has champions and other challenges, this unique item/class need some love.

Oh, and please get the rune arm charging sound back, we missed it 3 updates ago.


Thanks and keep up the good work

[Livmo]

If crafting on Rune Arms is abandoned in the new system, them please consider doing a rune arm pass.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Rune_Arm

However, the old arms could use a pass aside from removing the crafting due to all the game changes in the last few years.

[Gratch]

Personally, I don't really use CC gear much anymore, mostly because it's behind the random item curve in all the properties others have discussed. I don't really care what you do to it's cannith crafting slot until you also rebalance the stats on the items to match current RNG item properties at level.

Priority wise, I'd much rather see you attend to rune-arms as that affects an entire class instead of a spread of weapons from one pack. Attend = rebalance their properties to RNG item property levels on the high side of the RNG range. The CCraft portion of rune-arms sort of went along with artificer's skill at customizing/"artificing" stuffs. If keeping rune-arms with CCrafting is too weird, would be cool if they could have orange augment slots that can take (or scale) augments one tier higher (4 levels higher) than the augment without increasing the item's ML, e.g., you can place an L20 augment in an L17 runearm and the augment is only ML16 for ML purposes even though the effects remain as an L20 augment. Probably breaks the streamlining of augments though.

Though then you'd also need to rebalance augments to the RNG scaling. Aka a level 20 strength augment is +6. A level 20 item can be as high as +9(10?) on blue items. Though I think Sev said rebalancing augments was something to do in some upcoming update.

[QuantumFX]

Challenge Gear:
You really need to do a complete pass on the old named loot to make them something other than 99% useless. But, in lieu of crafting slots, I think I could live with standard augment slots.

Runearms:
Why not make the rune arm maximum charges and imbues scale instead? Currently, certain rune arms firing patterns aren’t represented in the epic range. A change like this could allow you guys an easier time scaling rune arms into epic content, and allow players to use their favorite blast pattern.

Maximum Charge: 2 + 1 per 5 levels of ML shard. (This is the part that could allow you guys to scale rune arms into epic content.)
Blast Type / Rune Arm Imbue: Blast type is chosen, damage and Rune Arm Imbue power is determined by ML shard on Rune arm.

Unique Effects could be governed by an Absolute Minimum Level mechanic, similar to armor. Then you could distribute unique effects based on minimum levels.

For Example: (You may want to do a different progression. But, for illustration purposes, I went with 1 Unique effect every 10 Absolute Minimum levels. Penalty effects allow for additional unique effects.)


The Pea Shooter: (Absolute Minimum Level: 1)
- Static Effect: Acid Shot
- Static Effect: Rune Arm Imbue: Acid
- Preslotted: Minimum Level 7
- Preslotted: Potency
- Preslotted: Insightful Acid Resistance


The Turmoil Within: (Absolute Minimum Level: 1)
- Static Effect: Acid Shot
- Static Effect: Rune Arm Imbue: Acid
- Preslotted: Minimum Level 13
- Preslotted: Insightful Accuracy
- Preslotted: Insightful Acid Resistance


Corruption of Nature: (Absolute Minimum Level: 10)
- Static Effect: Acid Shot
- Static Effect: Rune Arm Imbue: Acid
- Unique Effect: Rough Hide +3
- Preslotted: Minimum Level 1
- Preslotted: Reflex Save
- Special: Hard version becomes Mythic +1; Elite Version becomes Mythic +2.


Glorious Obscenity: (Absolute Minimum Level: 10)
- Static Effect: Acid Shot
- Static Effect: Rune Arm Imbue: Acid
- Unique Effect: Enhanced Spot +5 (Benefit)
- Unique Effect: Mind Turbulence (Penalty)
- Unique Effect: Taint of Chaos (Penalty)
- Unique Effect: Trace of Madness (Benefit)
- Preslotted: Minimum Level 17
- Preslotted: Seeker


Epic Corruption of Nature: (Absolute Minimum Level: 20)
- Static Effect: Acid Shot
- Static Effect: Rune Arm Imbue: Acid
- Unique Effect: Rough Hide +6
- Unique Effect: Colorless Augment Slot - Preslotted Insightful INT Augment
- Preslotted: Minimum Level 25
- Preslotted: Corrosion
- Preslotted: Potency
- Special: Epic Hard version becomes Mythic +1; Epic Elite Version becomes Mythic +3.


Epic The Turmoil Within: (Absolute Minimum Level: 20)
- Static Effect: Acid Shot
- Static Effect: Rune Arm Imbue: Acid
- Unique Effect: Green Augment Slot
- Unique Effect: Yellow Augment Slot
- Preslotted: Minimum Level 25
- Preslotted: Insightful Accuracy
- Preslotted: Insightful Acid Resistance
- Special: Epic Hard version becomes Mythic +1; Epic Elite Version becomes Mythic +3.

[alxz9]

how about stop killing rune arm, artificer abilities. its not to much given the added buy in

[Ziindarax]

Same goes with Rune Arms. Cannith Challenge gear should offer the ability to craft effects on to them, BUT what you could do is make it so that it uses the reagents and the collectibles [plus challenge reagents] to add a variety of limited effects that would not make anything too powerful.

Rune Arms - THEY MUST have craftable effects because many rune arms do not offer spell power (nor the lores) to make using the rune arms actually viable. If, again, you're concerned about them being too powerful from your new system, simply restrict the recipes that can go on them (and didn't you guys once mention we'd have the ability to CRAFT random gen rune arms via the Cannith system?).

In a nutshell, your challenge items can be kept in check by simply restricting recipe options so we can still add functional and sensible upgrades for their given level range and type [like holy/holy burst on the Fire axe]. However, I also think there should be updated options for challenges that go up to level 30.


Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.

[Andrash]

Thoughts, comments?


Shut the game down pls.

[Andrash]

Overall - sounds good.

Cannith Challenge Gear:

Tier 3 - since loosing the crafting (and only gaining a slot) - loose the BtC and make it BtA.
Add Frozen Tunic, and level 24 / 28 versions.
(Near Future) expand the Challenges to CR45


RuneArms:
Sounds Good.

Will the Int be fixed on that one Runearm at the same time?
Could and will all non-raid runearms that are currently BtC become Bta?



Keep up the solid hard work!


If your question "Will the Int be fixed on that one Runearm at the same time?" refers to Titan's Fist: no, they do not give a flying spaghetti monster about it, reported it many times, also heard many guildies and non-guildies reporting it...

Not sure if the "Keep up the solid hard work" is accurate, but, meh: Turbine.

[Andrash]

What if, for challenge items and rune arms both, you simply changed the existing craftable effect to the effect that allows for the addition of the 'extra' slot with the use of the mark of house C. Don't add a prefix slot and don't add a suffix slot, just the bonus effect slot.

Either way the power of the effects definitively needs to be re scaled and the T3 should be made BTA, especially if you go with your current proposition.

Also any news on what is happening with clickys and crafting? will they be added or not?

This is the LEAST WORST idea among the many terrible ones.

[slarden]

Overall - sounds good.

Cannith Challenge Gear:

Tier 3 - since loosing the crafting (and only gaining a slot) - loose the BtC and make it BtA.
Add Frozen Tunic, and level 24 / 28 versions.
(Near Future) expand the Challenges to CR45


RuneArms:
Sounds Good.

Will the Int be fixed on that one Runearm at the same time?
Could and will all non-raid runearms that are currently BtC become Bta?



Keep up the solid hard work!

If we had the option to convert our old btc tier 3s to bta that would be awesome. I don't care about losing the masterful craftmanship or crafting on these items.

[slarden]

I would almost rather the crafting slots on the named rune arms be replaced with augment slots and new rune arm blanks be created that were intended to be crafted to make them useful.

This.

If people want to use items at lower min level they have till u32 to make those items. They've already had 5 years.

[Blastyswa]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.

I think Challenge Gear should continue to be able to be crafted onto, but have a cap on the power level you can add. At the moment challenge gear is OK, but not a massive improvement over using random gen loot to level, except in the case of builds that use all the different types of elemental spells and the like. Having Challenge Gear receive a big upgrade with the Cannith update would make running challenges for players/toons who don't already have those items relevant again; if Challenge gear were changed to just have a new augment slot, Cannith Challenges would remain as dead or become even more dead than they already are, with them probably only be run for guild renown pots.
In addition, please do not switch any effects that have scaling versions into those versions. A big advantage of Challenge gear at the moment is that the spell lore on them hasn't been ruined yet by the idea that spell lore amounts need to be single digit in low levels, and that's about the only thing keeping the gear relevant (aside from blurry on the bracers at low level). Honestly, all lore/fortification effects on random gen should be modified from the current system that makes them next to useless in low levels, because those aren't effects that NEED to be lower in low levels.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.


Runearms can only be used on builds with at least 2 artificer levels anyways. The type of artificers that play with runearms I would say are probably behind on power anyways (Most arti's I know dual-wield for casting or use a shield) so the cannith crafting changes could be considered part of an arti buff. If it's still a big issue for builds like 18/2 rogue/artificer to gain big buffs from cannith crafting, make the maximum ML of crafting effects for runearms equal to 4+arti levels+epic levels. This would mean that an 18/2 rogue/artificer could only craft level 6 shards on a runearm at level 20, level 16 shards at level 30; that's still under half the potential levels. This also would mean that pure arti's can craft level 34 shards, which is the max in the new cannith crafting system, so the more artificer levels the stronger effects can be added to runearms.

I'd say for runearms just copy and paste the list of effects from trinket's more or less.

[Ziindarax]

I think Challenge Gear should continue to be able to be crafted onto, but have a cap on the power level you can add. At the moment challenge gear is OK, but not a massive improvement over using random gen loot to level, except in the case of builds that use all the different types of elemental spells and the like. Having Challenge Gear receive a big upgrade with the Cannith update would make running challenges for players/toons who don't already have those items relevant again; if Challenge gear were changed to just have a new augment slot, Cannith Challenges would remain as dead or become even more dead than they already are, with them probably only be run for guild renown pots.
In addition, please do not switch any effects that have scaling versions into those versions. A big advantage of Challenge gear at the moment is that the spell lore on them hasn't been ruined yet by the idea that spell lore amounts need to be single digit in low levels, and that's about the only thing keeping the gear relevant (aside from blurry on the bracers at low level). Honestly, all lore/fortification effects on random gen should be modified from the current system that makes them next to useless in low levels, because those aren't effects that NEED to be lower in low levels.


Runearms can only be used on builds with at least 2 artificer levels anyways. The type of artificers that play with runearms I would say are probably behind on power anyways (Most arti's I know dual-wield for casting or use a shield) so the cannith crafting changes could be considered part of an arti buff. If it's still a big issue for builds like 18/2 rogue/artificer to gain big buffs from cannith crafting, make the maximum ML of crafting effects for runearms equal to 4+arti levels+epic levels. This would mean that an 18/2 rogue/artificer could only craft level 6 shards on a runearm at level 20, level 16 shards at level 30; that's still under half the potential levels. This also would mean that pure arti's can craft level 34 shards, which is the max in the new cannith crafting system, so the more artificer levels the stronger effects can be added to runearms.

I'd say for runearms just copy and paste the list of effects from trinket's more or less.

I was thinking the same for Rune arms. TBH, Artificers are still the weakest class in the game - I'd love to see them get a buff, especially through Cannith crafting.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

"...too much" - According to who or what standard? Runearms have had a specific Craftable amount in them, and that resulted in effects in the old system capable of being crafted on, although crafting on a wield level reduction was the most typical crafting task for Rune Arms.

The better approach would be to resolve "how many effects" are maximum for Rune Arms, scalable for wield levels/Crafting points available. Perhaps the lowest level 1 Rune Arms get restricted to one effect, at some wield level 2 effects are allowed, and at another threshold a 3rd effect is allowed. Considering that Rune Arms are "Named Items" this isn't off the mark, as Named Items frequently have 4 or more effects on them.

Now, another consideration is toward the nerfing of Artificer as a Premium Class. Consider:
- The crafting level boost means less proportionally now, as the +10 levels factors less of an increase, when crafting level maximum increases as it is (the Arti crafting boost should be scaled upward, not left as-is).
- Rune Arms are essentially being nerfed, restricted from Crafting.

So, exactly how is Artificer being supported as a "Premium Class" with all these ingenious decisions?

[Ahwaric]

I strongly dislike the proposed change regarding challenge gear. I think there should be retained at least a small crafting capacity. For the following reasons:

1. Runearms are an artificer thing, and we are talking about CANNITH challenge gear. So for flavour, if not anything else
2. Cannith challenges gear is not that strong anyway compared to new named items and new random loot (compare dodge or electrical spellpower on bracers of the wind with what can drop as random loot at the same level). Being able to craft BtC version was a nice touch (flavour!), but the resulting items are still far from being overpowered.

I understand that with 3 effects and different method of setting the ML, the crafted challenge gear might be too strong (but still nowhere close to Pansophic Circlet - now, this is an overpowered item if I ever saw one). The proposal of allowing one effect, craftable only with the Mark of House Cannith, is a good one IMHO. It limits the potential power of the items, while still keeping some flexibility (which new crafting system will severely limit in general) and flavour. It would require Cannith favor to be able to craft on cannith gear - a good fit I think.
Please, do not remove something just because it would require some more work to balance (and a good resolution was already proposed).

EDIT: I have misread NoWorries proposal regarding runearrms, needed to change my opinion. The proposed change is ok, too. Might even add more flexibility - though adding one property on top of the dafault one using mark of cannith would be ok, too.

[NabeGewell]

A developer stating that artificer is 'already' too op?

http://i.imgur.com/NUeVFnL.gif

But seriously, don't you dare remove 'transform kinetic energy', 'lightning strike' cannith crafting option or other somewhat unique effects that used to make that flavor playstyle interesting. Crafting recently got updated and you're saying the crafter class is getting less options in a game where the amount of options is what made the it appealing for most players? These dev troll posts aren't funny anymore.

[changelingamuck]

A developer stating that artificer is 'already' too op?

http://i.imgur.com/NUeVFnL.gif

But seriously, don't you dare remove 'transform kinetic energy', 'lightning strike' cannith crafting option or other somewhat unique effects that used to make that flavor playstyle interesting. Crafting recently got updated and you're saying the crafter class is getting less options in a game where the amount of options is what made the it appealing for most players? These dev troll posts aren't funny anymore.

Did you reply to the wrong thread? Because there's only one post made by a developer in this thread and it's the first post. And that post doesn't make any claim like 'artificer is already too OP'.

And it specifically says that unique effects on rune arms will remain on rune arms AND that the proposal includes being able to do Cannith crafting on them (more effects than we can currently craft onto them). You're basically saying, "Don't you dare do the things that you specifically said that you're not going to do."

"Getting less options"? Three Cannith craftable effects being possible on all rune arms is more than the current ONE possible on rune arms with the "craftable" feature.

"Dev troll posts". You're totally lashing out at a post that didn't even happen...

[Eddexp]

Please dont forget about other itens that can have craftable...one example are all the ones given on "Storm horns" chain(quest and end reward) including the lv 6 anomalies. That itens can be descontructed and keep the named,craftable+5 and arg slot and one good ideia for that ones is give a extra slot and let then be the one to fill the place of old school 2 arg slot itens.

since yea...there are some old school itens with 2 arg slots biside a lot of nameds who can be crafted biside the canith and runearms.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Please dont forget about other itens that can have craftable...one example are all the ones given on "Storm horns" chain(quest and end reward) including the lv 6 anomalies. That itens can be descontructed and keep the named,craftable+5 and arg slot and one good ideia for that ones is give a extra slot and let then be the one to fill the place of old school 2 arg slot itens.

since yea...there are some old school itens with 2 arg slots biside a lot of nameds who can be crafted biside the canith and runearms.

Hmm....

how about replacing the BtA items in chains with 2 slot items? I like this much better. Keep them BtA if you wish....

http://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Crafting/BtA_base_items

Quest chain reward lists


The Lost Seekers (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Lost_Seekers) - anything, notably: a mithral shield (in place of Interogator's Shield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Interogator%27s_Shield)) and/or rare metal weapon (in place of Pastemaker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Pastemaker)) can appear on this list
Catacombs (http://ddowiki.com/page/Catacombs) - anything, includes belt and helmet/hat
The Seal of Shan-To-Kor (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Seal_of_Shan-To-Kor) - anything, includes belt and helmet/hat
The Sharn Syndicate (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Sharn_Syndicate) - any weapon
Tangleroot Gorge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tangleroot_Gorge) - Belts, Helms, Gloves
Phiarlan Carnival (http://ddowiki.com/page/Phiarlan_Carnival)
Sentinels of Stormreach (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sentinels_of_Stormreach) - every third reward list only
Delera's Tomb (http://ddowiki.com/page/Delera%27s_Tomb)
Ruins of Threnal (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ruins_of_Threnal)
Reign of Madness (http://ddowiki.com/page/Reign_of_Madness) - always a ring included


Single quest/raid reward lists


The Chronoscope (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Chronoscope) - weapons, clothing and jewelry
The Sharn Syndicate (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Sharn_Syndicate) quests are the easiest place to get items, since each quest is rather short and easy to farm, and gives a choice of several BTA items, rather than having to go through a whole chain - at the end of which you'll likely want to get a named item. However, you won't get a belt or helmet/hat from this chain.

Stand Your Ground (http://ddowiki.com/page/Stand_Your_Ground) - cloaks, gloves, rings, and necklaces
Dirty Laundry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Dirty_Laundry) - armor and shields
The Stormreaver Fresco (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Stormreaver_Fresco) - none (all unbound)
The Bookbinder Rescue (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Bookbinder_Rescue) - boots, bracers, and goggles
Repossession (http://ddowiki.com/page/Repossession) - armor and shields


The Red Fens (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Red_Fens) quests - any except trinket

Fathom the Depths (http://ddowiki.com/page/Fathom_the_Depths) - armor, shield, weapon, ring, boots, necklace
The Claw of Vulkoor (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Claw_of_Vulkoor) - armor, shield, weapon, ring, gloves, necklace (unbound helms appear on the list as well)
The Last Stand (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Last_Stand) - armor, shield, weapon, helm, ring, necklace, goggles
Into the Deep (http://ddowiki.com/page/Into_the_Deep) - ring, gloves, belt, helm, bracers, armor

[QuantumFX]

You know, on the challenge loot, I’m going to modify my position: I think you guys should simplify the **** things.

Give us basic create, upgrade (From a lower level version) and add a colorless augment slot recipes. (This means all the Tier 2, Tier 3 nonsense will be removed.) Scale all the scalable effects to the ML of the item, and add an effect at each new ML point.

Don’t forget to eliminate the BTC statuses and remove the divide between the epic and heroic version of the ingredients.

I'll use the Spare Hand as an example:

Level 3 Version:
- Minimum Level: 3
- Riposte
- Insightful Combat Mastery (Scaled to level 3)
- Disable Device (Scaled to level 3)
- Open Lock (Scaled to level 3)

Level 7 Version:
- Minimum Level: 7
- Riposte
- Insightful Combat Mastery (Scaled to level 7)
- Disable Device (Scaled to level 7)
- Open Lock (Scaled to level 7)
- Insightful Doublestrike (Scaled to level 7)

Level 11 Version:
- Minimum Level: 11
- Riposte
- Insightful Combat Mastery (Scaled to level 11)
- Disable Device (Scaled to level 11)
- Open Lock (Scaled to level 11)
- Insightful Doublestrike (Scaled to level 11)
- Staggering Blow

Level 15 Version:
- Minimum Level: 15
- Riposte
- Insightful Combat Mastery (Scaled to level 15)
- Disable Device (Scaled to level 15)
- Open Lock (Scaled to level 15)
- Insightful Doublestrike (Scaled to level 15)
- Staggering Blow
- Insightful Use Magic Device (Scaled to level 15)

Level 20 Version:
- Minimum Level: 20
- Riposte
- Insightful Combat Mastery (Scaled to level 20)
- Disable Device (Scaled to level 20)
- Open Lock (Scaled to level 20)
- Insightful Doublestrike (Scaled to level 20)
- Staggering Blow
- Insightful Use Magic Device (Scaled to level 20)
- Blue Augment Slot

Special Recipe:
- Adds colorless Augment Slot
- Can be added to any version

[gravisrs]

Aww, challenges are already dead in the water, now you adding concrete boots for it...

Make the effort worth it, or this will be yet another abandoned part of the game

[Andrash]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.



I WOULD prefer this (even if seems somewhat complicated):


That still sounds like decreasing the rune arms min lvl will no longer be an option. Even though with current craft UIs, it is possible to use the same materials for DIFFERENT outcome.

I would prefer a scenario like this with 2 options:

You can put a rune arm in the craft-machine with a mark of cannith and choose between:
1, Either have masterful effect on the rune arm, which would EXCLUDE further crafting unless you disjunct the rune arm
2, OR you can disjunct the rune arm and add 2 effects to it, but that means using a mark of cannith first- adding the classic mark of cannith effect, which WOULD then exclude masterul effect.

This way its a win-win: instead of 3 effects, the max would be 2, but people could also have their rune arm ml decreased, albeit at the cost of the rune arm becoming UNCRAFTABLE (unless disjuncted again).

It would be possible to swap between the 2 cases, aka you can un-masterful the rune arm later to have it crafted, or you can remove the crafted effects and have it masterfuled again.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

This whole discussion about Rune Arms isn't useful to the majority of Artificer players out there, until we get a very simple laydown of "Before and After" views of current Rune Arm, with what it looks like After.

You start to show this, in detail and in contrast, and then you'll finally get the player community to give their honest feedback about this Runearm concept you're contemplating.

[lain5246]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.

Challenge Gear:

The current plan is to simply have all those items be named gear that can't be crafted on. With everything we've done over the past year to bring a new consistency to Random Loot, Crafted Loot and Named Loot, having a side system that has several effects AND can have new scaling effects crafted on in addition, is simply too powerful.

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.


free my runearms from this dismal existence of near perma tr cashe, in fact to keep things inline with your current policies i recommend that the ability to use crossbows be a arti feat so that while using runearms as a non arti class you can only use one-handed weapons. and i have president for this being allowed. look at orbs, they can be used by any class at the cost of a feat that originally could only be taken by casters. look at mad lute and Divine Vengeance, as a half-elf i can use both, the mad lute has class absolutely required and Divine Vengeance requires paladin lvs to get its better effects.

[UurlockYgmeov]

This whole discussion about Rune Arms isn't useful to the majority of Artificer players out there, until we get a very simple laydown of "Before and After" views of current Rune Arm, with what it looks like After.

You start to show this, in detail and in contrast, and then you'll finally get the player community to give their honest feedback about this Runearm concept you're contemplating.

I was able to do SOME work with a runearm on Lamannia this last weekend. I have already posted the following on ddowiki.com .



cleans in Cannith Decon machine
Didn't remove the MCI??? is this WAI? but MCI not affecting ML
Used device workstation to exchange for new runearm, then cleansed - borked
Used device workstation to exchange for another new version, accepted in device workstation, but no recipes


As it is now on live:
http://ddowiki.com/images/Strinati%27s_Hand_Cannon.png

As it displayed on Lamannia last weekend (preview build 2)
http://i.imgur.com/ZETHBzD.png

As you can see - prefix and suffix slot showed up - and supposedly one can add extra slot as well.

For this - I'd probably slot in Fire Lore, Insightful Combustion and Combustion. :)

[QuantumFX]

Did you disjunct any Epic rune arms? I have a feeling people with 2 or more levels of Artificer are going to be saddened by a lack of Cannith support for level 20+ rune arms.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Did you disjunct any Epic rune arms? I have a feeling people with 2 or more levels of Artificer are going to be saddened by a lack of Cannith support for level 20+ rune arms.

No I ran out of time, and don't think there are any 'craftable' 20+ runearms... Lucid Dreams is 19 and that I believe is the highest level craftable runearm (maybe one from a raid??)

ml:19 Toven's Hammer (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Toven%27s_Hammer)
ml:19 Animus (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Animus)
ml:19 Lucid Dreams (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Lucid_Dreams)

(http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Lucid_Dreams)
I just also wonder if they will fix the +6 Int bug on Titan's Fist (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Titan%27s_Fist) while they are doing this.

[Andrash]

No I ran out of time, and don't think there are any 'craftable' 20+ runearms... Lucid Dreams is 19 and that I believe is the highest level craftable runearm (maybe one from a raid??)

ml:19 Toven's Hammer (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Toven%27s_Hammer)
ml:19 Animus (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Animus)
ml:19 Lucid Dreams (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Lucid_Dreams)

(http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Lucid_Dreams)
I just also wonder if they will fix the +6 Int bug on Titan's Fist (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Titan%27s_Fist) while they are doing this.

Dream, dream, dream...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbU3zdAgiX8

EDIT: On a sidenote: NoWorries stated that the lvl of the rune arm will determine the effect you can put on it. So do not expect combustion 60 and insightful bomustion +40 with fire lore 15%...

I will craft the 15% lore gear(ring, armor, weapon, necklace, whatever with masterful) b4 the 'update' kicks in. As for combustion effects... look on AH for non-weapon spell power boosts.

[elvesunited]

Dream, dream, dream...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbU3zdAgiX8

EDIT: On a sidenote: NoWorries stated that the lvl of the rune arm will determine the effect you can put on it. So do not expect combustion 60 and insightful bomustion +40 with fire lore 15%...

I will craft the 15% lore gear(ring, armor, weapon, necklace, whatever with masterful) b4 the 'update' kicks in. As for combustion effects... look on AH for non-weapon spell power boosts.

Well My lucid Dreams has Kinetic lore 15% crafted on it.

If minimum level indicates the crafting level of the rune arm. If I were to obtain a second Lucid Dreams and use the new crafting on it:

minimum level : 19

Impulse Lore: Max scale 23 * 19 / 30 -> roughly 15%
Spellpower(type specific): Max scale 159 * 19 / 30 -> roughly 100
Spellcraft skill : max scale 22 * 19 / 30 -> roughly 14

or are my assumptions wrong?

[UurlockYgmeov]

Well My lucid Dreams has Kinetic lore 15% crafted on it.

If minimum level indicates the crafting level of the rune arm. If I were to obtain a second Lucid Dreams and use the new crafting on it:

minimum level : 19

Impulse Lore: Max scale 23 * 19 / 30 -> roughly 15%
Spellpower(type specific): Max scale 159 * 19 / 30 -> roughly 100
Spellcraft skill : max scale 22 * 19 / 30 -> roughly 14

or are my assumptions wrong?

sounds about right. IIRC AFAIK YMMV

[Cantor]

Challenge Gear:
You really need to do a complete pass on the old named loot to make them something other than 99% useless. But, in lieu of crafting slots, I think I could live with standard augment slots.



Pretty much how I see it too. They are so far behind it doesn't really matter how the ccup affects it. Would be nice to make T3 bta though.

Challenges need a full pass with level increase (items and quests) and total item adjustment (not redesign, just adjustment of effect scaling). Not likely, but I think that's where it sits.

I think part of it is that it's not just X cannith items, it's 5timesX cannith items for the different ML versions. But the opportunity is here to just make them scale using new cc factors and cut it to X items plus scaling, also making it easy to add ML 24/28 versions.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Pretty much how I see it too. They are so far behind it doesn't really matter how the ccup affects it. Would be nice to make T3 bta though.

Challenges need a full pass with level increase (items and quests) and total item adjustment (not redesign, just adjustment of effect scaling). Not likely, but I think that's where it sits.

I think part of it is that it's not just X cannith items, it's 5timesX cannith items for the different ML versions. But the opportunity is here to just make them scale using new cc factors and cut it to X items plus scaling, also making it easy to add ML 24/28 versions.

T3 being made BtA (retroactively) would greatly offset the perceived loss in functionality and help ease the migration.

Since NoWorries (or whomever) is going to have to adjust every single piece of challenge gear to update it - now is the time to update it!

add frozen docent
add handwraps (even if just a placeholder)
add other missing (can't remember what off the top of my head)...


and these items have been traditionally a little more powerful than other named loot - more on the line of mini-raid items. Keep the power that way.

I too would love lv24/28 versions and have the challenges scale to CR35++ but that probably couldn't be fit into U32 - maybe U32.2? :P

[Andrash]

Now that everyone has had a chance to look at the basics of the system, it is time to talk about the outliers. And to note, existing items are intended to stay how they are when these changes go live.


Runearms:

A similar issue exists with Runearms. Having 3 effects on an item which can then have 3 powerful crafted effects added is too much.

The most straightforward solution would appear to be that the charge tier, the spell itself, the rune arm imbue, the ML, and any very unique effects (such as Coronauch) would stay. The rest of the effects would be removed when prepping for crafting and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.


Thoughts, comments? And as always, all plans are subject to change for any numerous and unforeseen reasons.


Coronauch? Good thing you guys know well what you are changing, hehe :P It is Coronach...

[Livmo]

http://i.imgur.com/4NNqRxi.jpg

[Livmo]

http://i.imgur.com/gRKM6Ix.jpg

[btolson]

Is there going to be any follow-up on this?

[sudzz]

They are not. Only Cannith Challenge Gear can be upgraded to allow for crafting.

Only HEROIC cannith items can be upgraded to craftable the ml20 items have always been considered epic and are not craftable.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Only HEROIC cannith items can be upgraded to craftable the ml20 items have always been considered epic and are not craftable.

aye - that is true.

[elvesunited]

Well deconstructed a Lucid Dreams:

Lost Spell Lore VI , +48 potency, -2 Will saves, and -5% spell points. I think I actually came out ahead with lost abilities.

Applied a force lore suffix and got +16% force critical.
( using previous crafting my other lucid dreams has +15% force lore )
and I've got two slots to fill yet.

[Cantor]

How do we update old challenge gear? Or are we forced to refarm it?

[Xahtep]

How do we update old challenge gear? Or are we forced to refarm it?

I would love to hear about this as i have some tier 3 epic challenge items. To me its not a huge deal having to reaquire but a option to trade for the new versions (like the cleansing ritual) or at least exchanging for raw materials would be very apreciated.

[Ebondevil]

How do we update old challenge gear? Or are we forced to refarm it?



So on this note are we supposed to just make new items to get the scaling affects or can our existing items be upgraded to reflect the changes to current items?

Yes, only new Cannith Challenge items will get the new effects. Old items cannot be upgraded.

Found a quote for you.

[Cantor]

Found a quote for you.

Thanks, and that's too bad.

[UurlockYgmeov]

http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Hand_of_the_Tombs.png/403px-Hand_of_the_Tombs.png

and with some crafting love:
http://ddowiki.com/images/thumb/Hand_of_the_Tombs_crafted.png/379px-Hand_of_the_Tombs_crafted.png

[Saekee]

I guess you can't craft on Corruption of Nature? Pulled one from the chest and it would not go in the machine.

edit: nevermind, figured it out--it never was craftable

[hp1055cm]

Challenge Gear:

This change would switch any effects that have scaling versions, into those versions, and leave any more unique effects as they are. It would also result in all tier 3 items having a colored augment slot.


This is how crafting systems die. Unless you revamp augments to bring them in line with current options, and add more variety this idea is just simply underwhelming.
I don't use a lot of challenge gear, but the effort to get it is worth more than an augment slot.



Runearms:

...and then you could craft on 2 effects (or 3 using the Mark of House Cannith). The list of effects for Runearms is still being worked on.

I agree that 3 effects would be OP for Rune arms. Probably a better idea to limit it to 1 or 2 effects but add unique list of effects for Rune arms only for at least one of the slots.

[changelingamuck]

This is how crafting systems die. Unless you revamp augments to bring them in line with current options, and add more variety this idea is just simply underwhelming.
I don't use a lot of challenge gear, but the effort to get it is worth more than an augment slot.


I agree that 3 effects would be OP for Rune arms. Probably a better idea to limit it to 1 or 2 effects but add unique list of effects for Rune arms only for at least one of the slots.

You're late to the party. These changes have already gone live.