An Anti-DoooOOoooMMMmmm! Thread

[karatemack]

I think it's time we all finally face the harsh reality that we should get comfortable playing DDO for a very long time. Although it was painfully obvious that DDO was at the brink of shutting down and going into maintenance mode forever, it seems that with the release of the new movie (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dungeons-and-dragons-movie-gets-director-vin-diese/1100-6436348/) WB now has big plans to revitalize DDO.

Don't believe me? Look at all the evidence!!!

Here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/477135-I-have-played-many-games/page2#post5849116 Sev clearly mentions plans not just for future content but perhaps even for an expansion!

Then... we see new DEVs popping up all over the place! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/477299-End-game-current-difficulty/page9#post5853712)

Looks like big things will be happening soon. See you all in game!

[Cleanincubus]

I think it's time we all finally face the harsh reality that we should get comfortable playing DDO for a very long time. Although it was painfully obvious that DDO was at the brink of shutting down and going into maintenance mode forever, it seems that with the release of the new movie (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dungeons-and-dragons-movie-gets-director-vin-diese/1100-6436348/) WB now has big plans to revitalize DDO.

Don't believe me? Look at all the evidence!!!

Here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/477135-I-have-played-many-games/page2#post5849116 Sev clearly mentions plans not just for future content but perhaps even for an expansion!

Then... we see new DEVs popping up all over the place! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/477299-End-game-current-difficulty/page9#post5853712)

Looks like big things will be happening soon. See you all in game!

None of that really has anything to do with whether DDO will be updated in the long term.

By the end of next year, no current plan can ever be expected to remain. Severlin likely won't even be the Producer for DDO at that point, unless he's in for the long haul towards maintenance mode. With the quality of content strongly declining in the past few years (getting worse every year IMHO,) an Expansion isn't going to save the game. Unless they step up and produce 10 or so quests, and at least 1 or 2 raids, that aren't simple hack and slash. If it's not amazing enough to deserve the cost real $, players will be furious and leave again. Add on, development time used to make the expansion will take time away from content released before it. I shudder to think of how horrible that content will be, compared to what we're getting now.

Not a new Dev. She's an intern, who chose her own title. On the Live stream today, she said her internship is over in 3 weeks. She does sound like the type of person Turbine needs to hire as a Dev though.

As for the movie... meh. Neverwinter will get the boost over DDO.

DoooOOoooMMMmmm!

[PermaBanned]

not /signed

Been playing this game for ~7 years or so, and doom threads have been a constant presence on the forums the whole time - why change now?

On the other hand, if/when we do stop seeing doom threads... now that would make me worry...

[karatemack]

None of that really has anything to do with whether DDO will be updated in the long term.

By the end of next year, no current plan can ever be expected to remain. Severlin likely won't even be the Producer for DDO at that point, unless he's in for the long haul towards maintenance mode. With the quality of content strongly declining in the past few years (getting worse every year IMHO,) an Expansion isn't going to save the game. Unless they step up and produce 10 or so quests, and at least 1 or 2 raids, that aren't simple hack and slash. If it's not amazing enough to deserve the cost real $, players will be furious and leave again. Add on, development time used to make the expansion will take time away from content released before it. I shudder to think of how horrible that content will be, compared to what we're getting now.

Not a new Dev. She's an intern, who chose her own title. On the Live stream today, she said her internship is over in 3 weeks. She does sound like the type of person Turbine needs to hire as a Dev though.

As for the movie... meh. Neverwinter will get the boost over DDO.

DoooOOoooMMMmmm!

Every doom thread has and will continue to be wrong... except once.

Every anti-doom thread has and will continue to be correct... except once.

But hey... if all the doom-sayers can cobble together abstract clues and references to justify their rants of "IT'S THE END!!!", then why not the occasional anti-doom thread as well? :)

[vryxnr]

Obligatory Doom Song:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY278K4ljWs

That is all.

[Memnir]

http://i.imgur.com/wXsnjED.gif

[Aurora1979]

Every doom thread has and will continue to be wrong... except once.

Every anti-doom thread has and will continue to be correct... except once.

But hey... if all the doom-sayers can cobble together abstract clues and references to justify their rants of "IT'S THE END!!!", then why not the occasional anti-doom thread as well? :)

So then, surely every doom thread is correct. just, premature. Prophecies in fact. You know, Nostradamus wasn't correct until after the events happened either.

[karatemack]

So then, surely every doom thread is correct. just, premature. Prophecies in fact. You know, Nostradamus wasn't correct until after the events happened either.

That's true in an "but they're always wrong right now" sense.

[FranOhmsford]

it seems that with the release of the new movie (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dungeons-and-dragons-movie-gets-director-vin-diese/1100-6436348/) WB now has big plans to revitalize DDO.

OMG!!!!

The Director of Shark Tale and Goosebumps!

The Writer of such utter trash as Wrath of the Titans!

And the Director of the Jeremy Irons abomination on board to produce!

What can possibly go wrong?

Oh yeah - EVERYTHING!!!



Why oh why WB won't you just pick up Saga of Old City or Dragons of Autumn Twilight or The Verdant Passage or The Crystal Shard or Darkwalker on Moonshae or I Strahd or Beyond the Moons or any of the other Novels based on Dungeons & Dragons and do a faithful adaptation rather than continuing to attempt to put out drivel like the last 3 Movies!?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I approve of this thread.

Quite amusing.

Yes DDO didnt have one glory day period, it's had quite a few. Even with all the corporate and dev hands that have been in the porridge.. DDO is still smoking along. It's an undeniable fact.

I would love to see DDO get a push for this new D&D movie. Both are WB products. So instead of whining about Dooom... let's ask WB for more DDO. Let's contribute to the DDO store. And if there is going to be an expansion, lets buy in.

Ten + years later this is still the best MMO on the market in this genre, bar none.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

OMG!!!!

The Director of Shark Tale and Goosebumps!

The Writer of such utter trash as Wrath of the Titans!

And the Director of the Jeremy Irons abomination on board to produce!

What can possibly go wrong?

Oh yeah - EVERYTHING!!!


I disagree. I think this D&D movie is finally getting some star power. Plenty can go wrong, but so far this is shaping up.

Rob Letterman, David Leslie Johnson (The Conjuring 2), Hasbro’s Brian Goldner and Stephen Davis, Sweetpea Entertainment’s Courtney Solomon and Allan Zeman, and Roy Lee are producing, Vin Diesel, Ansel Elgort (Carrie, Divergent, The Fault In Our Stars) These are BIG BIG players in Hollywood and/or entertainment field.

[Oliphant]

Every doom thread has and will continue to be wrong... except once.

Every anti-doom thread has and will continue to be correct... except once.

But hey... if all the doom-sayers can cobble together abstract clues and references to justify their rants of "IT'S THE END!!!", then why not the occasional anti-doom thread as well? :)

When the game clock runs out, dooooom wins

[Nuclear_Elvis]

How much money (net gain, not just gross) did the recent WOW movie make?

And based on that, I wonder if WB was influenced by it for D&D/DDO related decisions of late.

[morkahn82]

We got two new vip subscribers in our guild. That is also an increase of 40% of players. Not significant but still an omen.

[karatemack]

we got two new vip subscribers in our guild. That is also an increase of 40% of players. Not significant but still an omen.

you see!!!!!

People are coming back in droves!!! New players are joining all the time!!!

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

you see!!!!!

People are coming back in droves!!! New players are joining all the time!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFAkmkfcTfU

[LightBear]

The movie, based on the decades-old fantasy tabletop game, will be an "action-adventure tale" that focuses on a warrior and his creature pals, among them a half-dragon and a "cunning gnome." They set out looking for a mythical treasure, and that's all we know about the plot so far.


So half dragons are up to be added to DDO as a playable race?
And does cunning refer to looks or to wits?

[FranOhmsford]

And does cunning refer to looks or to wits?

Maybe it refers to their linguistic ability?

[CaptainPurge]

And does cunning refer to looks or to wits?


Maybe it refers to their linguistic ability?

Casts Permanency through multi-quote.

[LightBear]

Maybe it refers to their linguistic ability?

I dunno but doesn't that come with wits?

[Zavier]

I disagree. I think this D&D movie is finally getting some star power. Plenty can go wrong, but so far this is shaping up.

Rob Letterman, David Leslie Johnson (The Conjuring 2), Hasbro’s Brian Goldner and Stephen Davis, Sweetpea Entertainment’s Courtney Solomon and Allan Zeman, and Roy Lee are producing, Vin Diesel, Ansel Elgort (Carrie, Divergent, The Fault In Our Stars) These are BIG BIG players in Hollywood and/or entertainment field.

Hilarious...simply outstanding! Vin Diesel is a BIG BIG player in Hollywood. That is a hoot! Maybe if you are fifteen year old wannabee street racer!? I have never seen Vin Diesel in a movie and I have watched ALOT ALOT of movies in my 50 years.

Unfortunately for those of us who have D&D fantasy near and dear to our hearts, this will be another lemon in a long line of lemons. As Frannie-Oh! rightfully points out in his post. There is no way that is not going to be another groaner.

[FranOhmsford]

Hilarious...simply outstanding! Vin Diesel is a BIG BIG player in Hollywood. That is a hoot! Maybe if you are fifteen year old wannabee street racer!? I have never seen Vin Diesel in a movie and I have watched ALOT ALOT of movies in my 50 years.

You should get a hold of Pitch Black and give it a watch.

Triple X is a fun Action Movie {the sequel with Ice Cube should be avoided at all costs though}.

The Fast & Furious franchise gets a lot of hate BUT:
1) It makes big money and appeals to a lot of people.
2) 1,2,4 and 6 are actually decent movies {5 is legitimately great!}.
and
3) The Group dynamic of the Characters {especially in 4,5 and 6} is the closest Hollywood has ever come to a D&D Group!


Vin Diesel I would say is a big player in Hollywood right now BUT nowhere near the top of the tree.



I disagree. I think this D&D movie is finally getting some star power. Plenty can go wrong, but so far this is shaping up.

Rob Letterman, David Leslie Johnson (The Conjuring 2),

A Supernatural Horror Movie?

So a completely different genre!


Hasbro’s Brian Goldner and Stephen Davis,

Who?


Sweetpea Entertainment’s Courtney Solomon

Rofl!

This is the guy who gave us the Jeremy Irons abomination!


and Allan Zeman, and Roy Lee are producing,

Who?


Ansel Elgort (Carrie, Divergent, The Fault In Our Stars)

Who?


These are BIG BIG players in Hollywood and/or entertainment field.

No, No they're really not!

Well apart from Vin who's not even definitively signed on yet and is known to have very bad taste when it comes to being given any sort of actual input - See...Chronicles of Rid**** or The Last Witch Hunter!


P.S. Nice censorship there Turbine.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

No, No they're really not!

Well let's start with director Rob Letterman. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1224299?ref_=tt_ov_dr)

Monsters vs. Aliens gross:

Total Lifetime Grosses



Domestic:
$198,351,526
52.0%


+ Foreign: (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=monstersvsaliens.htm)
$183,158,344
48.0%





= Worldwide:
$381,509,870




If $381.5 MILLION gross on one movie does not signify a big player, I don't know what is. I have no problem having Rob Letterman grab the director's chair. If you have a problem with that movie, fine. However to me it shows he can bring characters to life, character creation is very important. And he can "sell it".

Ansel Elgort is a young actor that had excellent roles in The Fault in Our Stars, Divergent, Men, Women & Children. Having such a young popular actor is a GREAT way to get today's youth interested. If he gets signed, look out for his best role yet in this movie.

David Lee Johnson is a talented screenwriter that has already written the script. His credits: The Walking Dead, Wrath of the Titans, The Conjuring 2. They're using a script of his called "Chainmail" that WB bought 3 years ago and they're turning that into the foundation for this film. The script that put David Leslie Johnson onto the radar was his "Doc Savage" adaptation. That was bad ass. I'm definitely interested to see what WB saw in this script. Clearly he's an old school D&D guy for choosing a name like Chainmail.

Roy Lee will be producing (The Lego Movie, How To Train Your Dragon) with the involvement of Hasbro chief executive Brian Goldner and chief content officer Stephen Davis. They will ensure Lee stay on task with the D&D campaign setting of the Forgotten Realms. This relationship may also provide the avenue for Turbine to get some love for DDO, and who knows, they may already be getting it. I really think THIS has real potential. The horrible D&D movies of the past did not pay attention to detail like this project has.


Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast attorneys issued this statement at WBs legal efforts: "This settlement accomplished our overarching goal of unifying all Dungeons & Dragons rights under Hasbro's control, paving the way to make a blockbuster film. It's a great outcome for those involved." ---> WB likely poured millions of dollars to ensure they can make this movie. These are WB and Hasbro logos on our DDO game screens, that makes me feel WE won something here. This CAN NOT be bad for DDO, provided DDO remains in the black until the movie debuts.

Courtney Solomon from Sweetpea is along for the ride due to the lawsuit, and holds a producer tag. He's got the 2000 D&D movie flop to his credit, but has been very active since then. Maybe they can make him hold the water bottles and sweep the stage between sets :)

Vin Diesel is a true D&D fan. Hardcore. Fast and Furious franchise would bring throngs to see him, even if just an encore roll. Popular Guardians of the Galaxy is another big ticket to his credit. No doubt he brings star power. He'll be in the movie one way or another.

So yeah, I DO think things are lining up very nicely. It's early, and anything can happen. I won't say this will be a guaranteed hit, far from it, but I am HOPEFUL the above talents have career moments and that this movie finally is deserving of the D&D name.

[Oliphant]

Beautiful post @Leslie Guitar God

[Memnir]

There will never be a good, let alone great, D&D movie unless they adapt one of the novels.
Why? Because there will be too many people in the mix (screen writer/director/executives/visual directors/etc) and each one looking to put their stamp on it. There will be people involved who don't have an inkling about what makes D&D great - and they'll just shoot for generic "fantasy cool" elements. And the game itself is too open ended to lend any kind of real narrative focus.

Also, D&D means waaaaaaaaay too many things to it's own fans for their to be a cohesive vision on what a movie "should be" when it comes to D&D. Put it in the wrong setting, something that has effected this very game for most of it's lifetime, and a lot of fans will complain loudly and give it a pass. Portray a class, spell, or race wrong - D&D nerds (myself included) will eviscerate it. Put in any sort of self-aware joke to appeal to a more mass-audience, and hard core fans will feel slighted.

But, base it off a book... any of em... and then you've got story, characters, structure, and a solid base to maybe reduce those points above. It would give a movie more of a foundation and a focus. And if nothing else, if it goes wrong, all those too many people in the mix can at least blame the source material.

I don't have any sort of hope that a D&D movie will ever satisfy me as a fan. What I love about D&D is not the same as any other player sitting at the same table - let alone be able to congeal into a mass-appealing motion picture. I'd rather they just let it be, honestly.

YMMV


http://i.imgur.com/h7bVNG8.gif

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

There will never be a good, let alone great, D&D movie unless they adapt one of the novels.


I agree with much of what you said accept this. Plenty of movies that are book adaptations fail to capture the essence of the original book, so I'd never stifle creativity to accept scripts from books only.

WB thinks they have a treasure, and if it's a killer script that can emulate a great night of tabletop, and give it blockbuster appeal that also pleases enough old school D&D folk like ourselves, they may pull off the near impossible.... craft a new wave of D&D fandom that people will want to see more and more of, on the silver screen and on their computers -- DDO hello!)

I am willing to give them the chance to bring the D&D franchise to a new generation, hopefully in a fantastic way that will open our minds and bring us together.

[karatemack]

Also, don't forget all the buzz about the new expansion!

[Ulfo]

You should get a hold of Pitch Black and give it a watch.

Sic! 8)


This is the guy who gave us the Jeremy Irons abomination!

But... but... Jeremy Irons is best part this movie!!! 1111 http://forum.eve-ru.com/public/style_emoticons/default/trololo.png


P.S. Nice censorship there Turbine.

Huh... you so old in forum life and cannot type "d i c k", "di?k" or "d1ck'? Really?! Noob! :P
But local censor bot... yea... too lame... 8)

[Hoglum]

Roy Lee will be producing (The Lego Movie, How To Train Your Dragon)


How is this a good thing? Is this going to be custom made for 7 year olds?

[Duana]

Whatever happens, do not let the Anti-Dooooommm!!!!!1!! and Dooooommm!!!!!111!!!! streams cross. The entire universe may implode. Then again, we may get an FTL drive out of it.



Rofl!

This is the guy who gave us the Jeremy Irons abomination!


My understanding is this was a compromise between WB, WotC and Sweatpea Entertainment, as Sweatpea still held the license for D&D movies. So they are still involved and WB gets to make their D&D movie. I could be wrong about that.

[knightgf]

I think your getting ahead of yourself. They're making an expansion, which means they're taking a chance, which in turn means they will hire more staff. Then there are the lag fixes. But what you forget to mention is:



This expansion will not be free to VIP. No expansion ever is. Prepare to shell out a ridiculous amount of cash for low-quality content!
Once the expansion is released, they will slowly lay off most, if not all people hired for the expansion. Sure, they'll keep them there right after they release it to try and fix anything game-breaking, such as a raid that does not work, but otherwise, they will slowly lay them off as their profits go back down.
The movie, assuming it does not get canceled, will have almost NOTHING to do with this game, besides the name and possibly the general setting.
There is still lots of lag. The lag fixes are gradual in frequency and experimental at best. Not to mention, as one developer put it,


Those changes weren't a miracle cure for all lag (there isn't one), but rather parts of the larger puzzle, much like what we're doing here.
The latest quests they released are LAME and they're taking wild guesses at loot, with no regards to other loot or to character abilities (Some borrow from ED's, others from heroic). Are you really confident they will make good loot choices when the new expansion comes out?
The last expansion was DEPRESSING. It looks depressing, it feels depressing, and the quality of the content is depressing, mostly in terms of XP but also a bit in loot, half the loot was subpar. Also, part of the expansion is a Skyrim rip-off, while another part rips off the dwarven interiors of Dragon Age.


Don't pull the veil over your eyes, it's not going to be fantastic. But to be fair, at least they are taking chances by building an expansion, few would take such a chance when their back is against the wall and they're on the brink of maintenance mode.

[FranOhmsford]

Well let's start with director Rob Letterman. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1224299?ref_=tt_ov_dr)

Monsters vs. Aliens gross:

Total Lifetime Grosses



Domestic:
$198,351,526
52.0%


+ Foreign: (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=monstersvsaliens.htm)
$183,158,344
48.0%





= Worldwide:
$381,509,870




If $381.5 MILLION gross on one movie does not signify a big player, I don't know what is. I have no problem having Rob Letterman grab the director's chair. If you have a problem with that movie, fine. However to me it shows he can bring characters to life, character creation is very important. And he can "sell it".

That movie would have made money no matter what - Animated Kids Movies generally do!

Also: It's hardly a recommendation for the director of a D&D Movie that he made a popular kids movie {and I mean Little Kids at that}.


Ansel Elgort is a young actor that had excellent roles in The Fault in Our Stars, Divergent, Men, Women & Children. Having such a young popular actor is a GREAT way to get today's youth interested. If he gets signed, look out for his best role yet in this movie.

I've never heard of two of those movies and Divergent has been critically slammed and is hated by the public!


David Lee Johnson is a talented screenwriter that has already written the script. His credits: The Walking Dead, Wrath of the Titans, The Conjuring 2. They're using a script of his called "Chainmail" that WB bought 3 years ago and they're turning that into the foundation for this film. The script that put David Leslie Johnson onto the radar was his "Doc Savage" adaptation. That was bad ass. I'm definitely interested to see what WB saw in this script. Clearly he's an old school D&D guy for choosing a name like Chainmail.

Wrath of the Titans is an absolute Travesty!

And as that's the only actual Fantasy Credit you list it's the one that really makes him a bad option for a D&D Movie - He may be a decent Horror Screenwriter but that's not D&D!


Roy Lee will be producing (The Lego Movie, How To Train Your Dragon) with the involvement of Hasbro chief executive Brian Goldner and chief content officer Stephen Davis. They will ensure Lee stay on task with the D&D campaign setting of the Forgotten Realms. This relationship may also provide the avenue for Turbine to get some love for DDO, and who knows, they may already be getting it. I really think THIS has real potential. The horrible D&D movies of the past did not pay attention to detail like this project has.

Oh dear Lord!

So more Cartoons!

Can we have people with actual Valid credits in the Fantasy Genre?

Spielberg, Jackson, Cameron, Scott, Heck even Lucas - Willow being the best Pure Fantasy Movie ever made prior to Fellowship of the Ring!


Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast attorneys issued this statement at WBs legal efforts: "This settlement accomplished our overarching goal of unifying all Dungeons & Dragons rights under Hasbro's control, paving the way to make a blockbuster film. It's a great outcome for those involved." ---> WB likely poured millions of dollars to ensure they can make this movie. These are WB and Hasbro logos on our DDO game screens, that makes me feel WE won something here. This CAN NOT be bad for DDO, provided DDO remains in the black until the movie debuts.

Batman Vs Superman!

Suicide Squad!

Ghostbusters 2016!

Independence Day: Resurgence!

Money does not automatically = Good!


Courtney Solomon from Sweetpea is along for the ride due to the lawsuit, and holds a producer tag. He's got the 2000 D&D movie flop to his credit, but has been very active since then. Maybe they can make him hold the water bottles and sweep the stage between sets :)

Very active since then?

What credits exactly?

And yeah - Hopefully they'll ignore him if he's only there due to a Lawsuit or maybe they're going to be forced to listen to him?


Vin Diesel is a true D&D fan. Hardcore. Fast and Furious franchise would bring throngs to see him, even if just an encore roll. Popular Guardians of the Galaxy is another big ticket to his credit. No doubt he brings star power. He'll be in the movie one way or another.

I don't want him in the Movie just for a Cameo and I don't want the Movie to have to be rewritten to shoe-horn him in as the Star - If there's no actual Role for him then he should wait for a possible sequel or Extended Universe.


So yeah, I DO think things are lining up very nicely. It's early, and anything can happen. I won't say this will be a guaranteed hit, far from it, but I am HOPEFUL the above talents have career moments and that this movie finally is deserving of the D&D name.

Really not impressed with the lineup so far!

The Fact that Courtney Solomon is involved at all is bad enough!

Then you've got the Screenwriter of that absolute disgrace - Wrath of the Titans!

And a pretty boy Teen Actor who no-one's ever heard of supposedly to Star!

Not looking Good!





P.S. D&D has 4 basic Character Classes:
Fighter, Wizard, Rogue AND CLERIC!

Can we get an actual Decent Cleric in this Movie?

Oh sorry - We've got the Screenwriter of a Sequel to Clash of the Titans that Decided it was a Good Idea to kill off half the Greek Pantheon!
So what we'll get is Clerics are Evil I suppose!

[axel15810]

It doesn't make much sense to shut DDO down when they can keep it running profitably and cheaply with minimal costs/minimal dev staff like they're doing now. There's still value in all of the content they're created over the past decade. They may as well keep it for sale. There's a solid base of players who are in DDO for the long haul and will continue to play. Unless that changes due to another MMO coming out that actually competes with DDO's niche (which I don't see happening) the game will likely continue to stick around for a long time to come. We may see decreased quality via more layoffs in the future to keep DDO profitable but I don't think the lights are going out anytime soon.

But that's pure speculation. The only ones who really know are the people who work for Turbine.

[karatemack]

I think your getting ahead of yourself. They're making an expansion, which means they're taking a chance, which in turn means they will hire more staff. Then there are the lag fixes. But what you forget to mention is:



This expansion will not be free to VIP. No expansion ever is. Prepare to shell out a ridiculous amount of cash for low-quality content!
Once the expansion is released, they will slowly lay off most, if not all people hired for the expansion. Sure, they'll keep them there right after they release it to try and fix anything game-breaking, such as a raid that does not work, but otherwise, they will slowly lay them off as their profits go back down.
The movie, assuming it does not get canceled, will have almost NOTHING to do with this game, besides the name and possibly the general setting.
There is still lots of lag. The lag fixes are gradual in frequency and experimental at best. Not to mention, as one developer put it,
The latest quests they released are LAME and they're taking wild guesses at loot, with no regards to other loot or to character abilities (Some borrow from ED's, others from heroic). Are you really confident they will make good loot choices when the new expansion comes out?
The last expansion was DEPRESSING. It looks depressing, it feels depressing, and the quality of the content is depressing, mostly in terms of XP but also a bit in loot, half the loot was subpar. Also, part of the expansion is a Skyrim rip-off, while another part rips off the dwarven interiors of Dragon Age.


Don't pull the veil over your eyes, it's not going to be fantastic. But to be fair, at least they are taking chances by building an expansion, few would take such a chance when their back is against the wall and they're on the brink of maintenance mode.


Of course an expansion will not be free, even for VIP.

The gaming industry works this way.

The movie will bring new players.

Lag is far improved.

I'm happy with most of the changes. Game design and updating will continue to improve as the game settles into its new level cap.

Some content I like better than others. I expect it to continue to be diverse to match the diverse playerbase.

Glad to see you'll be purchasing the new expansion!

[Six_Gun]

This thread is either hilarious satire or delusional fantasy.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M3025692a1ca773724404e497ba1b830do2&pid=15.1&P=0&w=301&h=152

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

do!

public!



Travesty!

D&D!



Lord!

Cartoons!



Ring!



Superman!

Squad!

2016!

Resurgence!

Good!

far!

enough!

Titans!

Star!

Good!

Pantheon!
suppose!

That's 19 exclamation points in one post?

Ya know, I just realized how to make sense of your post. If you just include the last word of each sentence and the explanation points, you do make some valid points!!! :)~~~

(Just an observation... nothing to take to heart)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

It doesn't make much sense to shut DDO down when they can keep it running profitably and cheaply with minimal costs/minimal dev staff like they're doing now. There's still value in all of the content they're created over the past decade. They may as well keep it for sale. There's a solid base of players who are in DDO for the long haul and will continue to play. Unless that changes due to another MMO coming out that actually competes with DDO's niche (which I don't see happening) the game will likely continue to stick around for a long time to come. We may see decreased quality via more layoffs in the future to keep DDO profitable but I don't think the lights are going out anytime soon.

But that's pure speculation. The only ones who really know are the people who work for Turbine.

There's not much more meat on the bones to cut sadly at this point, but yes Axel I agree with this entirely. Well said.

[Chilldude]

This thread is either hilarious satire or delusional fantasy.

I've been thinking the same thing. People talking about how there's no doom on the horizon, of course there isn't, doom is already here. It's been here for a long time. DDO doesn't end with a bang, but a whimper.

[karatemack]

I've been thinking the same thing. People talking about how there's no doom on the horizon, of course there isn't, doom is already here. It's been here for a long time. DDO doesn't end with a bang, but a whimper.

For every person posting here on the forums there are exponentially more who play the game yet never post. You being here is yet another anti-doom proof.

Despite all of the criticism, DDO is still going strong. You think DDO is about to die??? Watch how many players post whenever the DEVs make a change the players don't like. The forums are FLOODED!!!

See you in game for the expansion. :)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I've been thinking the same thing. People talking about how there's no doom on the horizon, of course there isn't, doom is already here. It's been here for a long time. DDO doesn't end with a bang, but a whimper.

Chill.

You've been here since 2010. Six Years. And you think Doom was here a long time ago?

Doom has been here since before LAUNCH in 2005.... but as I peer at my clock it states 8/7/2016. 2:19AM

I think with some effort on your part to find people to run with, you'll be able to get your DDO on just fine.

[bartharok]

Chill.

You've been here since 2010. Six Years. And you think Doom was here a long time ago?

Doom has been here since before LAUNCH in 2005.... but as I peer at my clock it states 8/7/2016. 2:19AM

I think with some effort on your part to find people to run with, you'll be able to get your DDO on just fine.

Some people are just more doomed than others i suppose.

[Chilldude]

You've been here since 2010. Six Years. And you think Doom was here a long time ago?

Have I been here since 2010? No, not really. I was here a bit before I made a forum account, and I played continuously from then until awhile after the release of epic Gianthold (late 2012 or early 2013). Until then I honestly thought they would fix all the ways they completely ruined the game when they introduced epic levels, after epic Gianthold it was obvious they had no intention of ever doing anything that made sense again, I couldn't stand what the game had become and I stopped playing. I've been back for short periods every now and again, but the game has been over for me for years.

I came back when they released Swashbuckler for Bards, because I'd always loved bards despite how gimp they had always been in DDO. I know you denied bards were gimp, but now you're denying the game is dead as well. Actually the two circumstances are extremely similar. You insisted bards weren't gimp, that people merely needed to build and play them correctly. The thing is though, they actually were extremely gimp, and the fact that someone could play a decent character that happened to have a bard icon didn't change that fact. While it was possible to make a bard character that didn't completely suck, being a bard didn't contribute to the character not sucking in any way, it was in spite of being a bard the character didn't suck. When it came down to it, everything a bard could bring to the table could be accomplished in other, better ways. In fact, in order to have a bard character that didn't suck, you had to ignore everything about being a bard and instead focus on general melee stats, feats, and enhancements. Sure a 16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 monk with max STR, CON, DEX and dumped INT, WIS, CHA with all melee feats was a very solid character that happened to have a bard icon, but nothing about being a bard is what made it solid. When it came down to it, fascinate was the only thing special about being a bard, yet since damage broke the affect it was just easier/better/faster to use other CC or just outright kill stuff the vast majority of the time.

So what do bards and doom have in common? In this case, the difference between reality and perspective. The reality of the matter concerning bards was that the class didn't provide the character with any power, their buffs had become redundant by a myriad of other sources, and players had become so powerful that fascinate was superfluous. The perspective that bards weren't gimp based on seeing powerful characters with bard icons was therefore skewed, as the unassailable truth was that in reality they clearly met the definition of the word gimp. When it comes to doom, the the reality of the matter is there isn't any doom on the horizon because DDO is already a ghost town, it can't really get much worse. Doom happened. The perspective that everything is fine and DDO is chugging right along based on there still being a few people playing DDO is skewed as the reality of the matter is undeniable, the game is a ghost town.

From a skewed perspective things certainly can quite convincingly seem drastically different from reality, but that doesn't make the skewed perspective any less false. DDO is an MMORPG, and MMORPGs require a large player base to thrive. DDO was once thriving with a large player base that was constantly replenished by new players, but that player base dried up and now DDO is in a constant state of decline. For solo grinders working on their hundred and forty seventh past life, sure, it's business as usual. Enter quest, hold down forward, hold down attack, collect XP. 100 years from now, even if nothing changed from this moment on, there'd still be a handful of people continuously grinding XP. Yet because there is still a sizable number of people using this MMORPG as a single player RPG doesn't mean the MMO part isn't dead, because it so very clearly is. You can try to argue it's a matter of opinion, but it's really not. Just like Bard being gimp wasn't a matter of opinion, it was a simple fact. "Doom happened" isn't my opinion, it's what any rational person would plainly see if they weren't desperately trying to hold on to something that matters far more to them than it probably should.

[karatemack]

Have I been here since 2010? No, not really. I was here a bit before I made a forum account, and I played continuously from then until awhile after the release of epic Gianthold (late 2012 or early 2013). Until then I honestly thought they would fix all the ways they completely ruined the game when they introduced epic levels, after epic Gianthold it was obvious they had no intention of ever doing anything that made sense again, I couldn't stand what the game had become and I stopped playing. I've been back for short periods every now and again, but the game has been over for me for years.

You can't really take your ball and go home in an MMO. You can stop playing... that doesn't mean DOOOOM has happened. Unless you mean DOOOM has happened but only in the limited sense in which it applies to you personally. Any other meaning is extraordinarily conceited.


I came back when they released Swashbuckler for Bards, because I'd always loved bards despite how gimp they had always been in DDO.

Your ability to play or build bard toons at any point in DDOs history is not proof conclusive of whether or not they were gimp. A toon being more difficult to build/play is not the same as an entire class being gimped. Some classes SHOULD be more difficult to play/build than others. It is far easier to build a Warlock than it is to build a Rogue... that doesn't mean Rogue is gimp.



So what do bards and doom have in common? In this case, the difference between reality and perspective.

Only if we accept your premise that YOUR reality IS reality. I don't. Mostly because it doesn't match my experience. However, I'm not basing the anti-doom thread off of my personal experience but rather statements from the DEV team and decisions from WB. But if you don't believe me (that your opinion is not "reality") then take your own advice:


From a skewed perspective things certainly can quite convincingly seem drastically different from reality, but that doesn't make the skewed perspective any less false.

Then you argue:


Yet because there is still a sizable number of people using this MMORPG as a single player RPG doesn't mean the MMO part isn't dead, because it so very clearly is. You can try to argue it's a matter of opinion, but it's really not. Just like Bard being gimp wasn't a matter of opinion, it was a simple fact. "Doom happened" isn't my opinion, it's what any rational person would plainly see if they weren't desperately trying to hold on to something that matters far more to them than it probably should.

So... people don't play DDO... but even if a sizable number of people still play... it's still dead?

If you don't have a large guild with active members... get a new guild. If your LFMs don't fill quickly, then try filling up your friends list or take a good hard look in the mirror to ask why that might be the case. Check out the "who" list. Plenty of people are playing DDO. I never have trouble filling groups/raids... so not sure which DDO you're playing, but I can assure you that your experience is not ours. I think a lot of people making this claim (not necessarily you, but many) made their bed a long time ago. They had a guild/static group they ran with and treated outsiders who joined their group like they had leprosy. They would gleefully utilize Oracle to deny people entrance to their raids, sending them off with a condescending message. And now that their static group is gone... they wonder why no one will group with them.

Also... once the movie and the expansion hit, the servers will see a significant increase in new players.

See you in game for the expansion! :)

[Drelak]

This is about only net game I play, because this is simply the best game for me. I have tried others.
I will likely keep playing as long as possible, and advertise the game to any like-minded individuals.

I was a bit worried about getting new content some time ago, but now DDO got some graphics people back, and quest production sounds to be getting easier to do.

Frankly I feel it is more likely that we are getting new large scale war within a decade than DDO closing or getting into maintenance mode before that. :(

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Have I been here since 2010? No, not really. I was here a bit before I made a forum account, and I played continuously from then until awhile after the release of epic Gianthold (late 2012 or early 2013). Until then I honestly thought they would fix all the ways they completely ruined the game when they introduced epic levels, after epic Gianthold it was obvious they had no intention of ever doing anything that made sense again, I couldn't stand what the game had become and I stopped playing. I've been back for short periods every now and again, but the game has been over for me for years.

Thank you for coming back again and again. Nothing wrong with that. I was no fan of the inclusion of the DDO Store, TRs, Epic destinies or the enhancement changes. I spoke out against the dangers of adding these items in the game, however.. and this is a big however, I was won over with the implementation. The DDO Store has been the life blood of the game. TRs are not only a voluntary time sync, but a character build library of options. Epic Destinies are overpowered like I stated but EVERYONE has the same opportunities and you know what it did? It transformed a lot of builds that were gimp and made them fun for people to play.


I came back when they released Swashbuckler for Bards, because I'd always loved bards despite how gimp they had always been in DDO. I know you denied bards were gimp, but now you're denying the game is dead as well. Actually the two circumstances are extremely similar. You insisted bards weren't gimp, that people merely needed to build and play them correctly. The thing is though, they actually were extremely gimp, and the fact that someone could play a decent character that happened to have a bard icon didn't change that fact. While it was possible to make a bard character that didn't completely suck, being a bard didn't contribute to the character not sucking in any way, it was in spite of being a bard the character didn't suck. When it came down to it, everything a bard could bring to the table could be accomplished in other, better ways. In fact, in order to have a bard character that didn't suck, you had to ignore everything about being a bard and instead focus on general melee stats, feats, and enhancements. Sure a 16 bard / 2 fighter / 2 monk with max STR, CON, DEX and dumped INT, WIS, CHA with all melee feats was a very solid character that happened to have a bard icon, but nothing about being a bard is what made it solid. When it came down to it, fascinate was the only thing special about being a bard, yet since damage broke the affect it was just easier/better/faster to use other CC or just outright kill stuff the vast majority of the time.

So what do bards and doom have in common? In this case, the difference between reality and perspective. The reality of the matter concerning bards was that the class didn't provide the character with any power, their buffs had become redundant by a myriad of other sources, and players had become so powerful that fascinate was superfluous. The perspective that bards weren't gimp based on seeing powerful characters with bard icons was therefore skewed, as the unassailable truth was that in reality they clearly met the definition of the word gimp. When it comes to doom, the the reality of the matter is there isn't any doom on the horizon because DDO is already a ghost town, it can't really get much worse. Doom happened. The perspective that everything is fine and DDO is chugging right along based on there still being a few people playing DDO is skewed as the reality of the matter is undeniable, the game is a ghost town.

Oh wow -- where do I begin. :) IMHO Bards are in many ways similar to monks in that they have play so differently in different hands. Its NOT just your selection of choices. Two of the EXACT SAME BUILDS play so differently in different hands.

I suck at playing a monk. Because I have carpal tunnel and I just cant get into it. So I can build the most uber monk build and slot all the best gear. Even before my carpal tunnel acted up... I sucked at monk because I had no faith in the class. My heart wanst in it. I will never be a good monk. But I'd never say they were gimp. They were just gimp in MY hands.

Bards on the other hand... I live and breathe it. I'm CCing as a weapon choice. I could save a cleric. I could out heal clerics. I can solo heal the hardest raids. When Im on a bard Im the master of that battlefield (at least in my head!). I am controling anything moving, I am debuffing anything moving, I dont care about kill count, I care about TURNING THE TIDE for the benefit of my party. I am keeping my party healed. I cannot be killed.

Thats the beauty of monks and bards in DDO. They are SO customizeable. They were no doubt gimp in the wrong hands. But what I found in the many years building or assisting hundreds of people build bards is that it wasnt the build or the gear as much as it was matching their gameplay, to the game mechanics. I KNEW who was going to succeed at playing bards and who wasnt before they EVER got started playing. It's THAT stuff ... what ever that stuff is (heart, multitasking ability, enjoyment of playstyle, attention to detail, etc etc), that is necessary to excel at a bard :)

As for my other bards I always insured they played like bards. I built bards around the wishes of others. So much fun.

I love to see what other bright bard builders have done in recent years. I LOVE what CThruTheEgo, Maelodic, Zoda, MadCookieQueen, Slarden did with their bards, those were not gimp bards. In the right hands - Lookout! Mississippee Queen has 295,539 views, Genghis Khan has 211,348 views. In DD freikin O. Thats over one half million views with just two builds. I spent years helping people 1 on 1 try to master the class in THEIR way. I think I had a pretty good run :)

So sorry Chilly, bards could actually be quite capable with the right mindset, and in the right hands. I will admit that it requires both however.



From a skewed perspective things certainly can quite convincingly seem drastically different from reality, but that doesn't make the skewed perspective any less false. DDO is an MMORPG, and MMORPGs require a large player base to thrive. DDO was once thriving with a large player base that was constantly replenished by new players, but that player base dried up and now DDO is in a constant state of decline. For solo grinders working on their hundred and forty seventh past life, sure, it's business as usual. Enter quest, hold down forward, hold down attack, collect XP. 100 years from now, even if nothing changed from this moment on, there'd still be a handful of people continuously grinding XP. Yet because there is still a sizable number of people using this MMORPG as a single player RPG doesn't mean the MMO part isn't dead, because it so very clearly is. You can try to argue it's a matter of opinion, but it's really not. Just like Bard being gimp wasn't a matter of opinion, it was a simple fact. "Doom happened" isn't my opinion, it's what any rational person would plainly see if they weren't desperately trying to hold on to something that matters far more to them than it probably should.

That's just grade A Malarkey.

You just killed your own point with the last sentence. "hold on to something that matters" THAT is one of the greatest things about DDO. People actually love their characters. Many have found a great community of players to enjoy the game with.

I promise you I can introduce you to many people that understand where you were coming from and would agree with much of it, BUT will tell you they still enjoy playing the game and have had a blast and arent going anywhere.

For me its the awesome build options... the combat... the quests (although they can get stale no doubt)... the camaraderie of a kick ass community. The good is so great, that I'm willing to deal with the staleness of the quests because my net satisfaction is met. oh yeah... and I can't find the best of DDO in ANY MMO on the market (and that includes the wonderful friends I've made along the way).

I wont deny a population drop. However that's natural in a 10+ year old game. But what you fail to mention is the AMAZING replayability of DDO. There are less guilds then there used to be in DDOs heyday, and smaller guilds, but if you are looking for thriving guilds, with people having FUN, just like the old days.... guilds are definitely out there everyday doing their thang together!

Just my 2 coppers though :)

[PermaBanned]

If your LFMs don't fill quickly, then try filling up your friends list or take a good hard look in the mirror to ask why that might be the case. Check out the "who" list. Plenty of people are playing DDO. I never have trouble filling groups/raids... so not sure which DDO you're playing, but I can assure you that your experience is not ours. I think a lot of people making this claim (not necessarily you, but many) made their bed a long time ago. They had a guild/static group they ran with and treated outsiders who joined their group like they had leprosy. They would gleefully utilize Oracle to deny people entrance to their raids, sending them off with a condescending message. And now that their static group is gone... they wonder why no one will group with them. Im sure that's true for a portion of folks. But is still an issue of conceit when you notice a large hole in the population that used to be filled with like minded players? For instance, I've watched a significant number of players who...

• Enjoy PUG grouping
• Dislike soloing as their primary play option
• Want group based tactics instead of DPS races to determine difficult quest/raid success
• Prefer the Hard difficulty be challenging to the "average player/character" and Even Harder (aka Elite) difficulty be challenging to the "above average player/character"
(In other words, folks like minded to myself)

...simply vanish from the population not to be replaced by folks with similar preferences. Am I conceited for believing that?

Lastly, there's absolutely room for perspective in the presence or absance of Doom - for instance I'm sure the Colonials and Native Americans had quite different perspectives on the matter ;) Boom for one was doom for the other.


Also... once the movie and the expansion hit, the servers will see a significant increase in new players.

See you in game for the expansion! :)
I hope you're right - and who knows? Maybe this will even be the first Expansion to have the same # of players left after whatever "improvements" it brings to the game as it did before!?

[Chilldude]

You can't really take your ball and go home in an MMO. You can stop playing... that doesn't mean DOOOOM has happened. Unless you mean DOOOM has happened but only in the limited sense in which it applies to you personally. Any other meaning is extraordinarily conceited.

I didn't say DDO is dead because I stopped playing. DDO is dead because the majority of players stopped playing.




Your ability to play or build bard toons at any point in DDOs history is not proof conclusive of whether or not they were gimp. A toon being more difficult to build/play is not the same as an entire class being gimped. Some classes SHOULD be more difficult to play/build than others. It is far easier to build a Warlock than it is to build a Rogue... that doesn't mean Rogue is gimp.



You entirely missed the point. First of all, I was referring to a big argumentative thread about bards from years ago where I specifically remember this particular person denouncing what I said about bards being gimp as I needed to learn how to play a bard. I'm not going to rehash what was said in that thread, and I don't need to rehash what I said above. Simply put, at the specific point in time I was referring to, bards did not have a single ability that was of significant value to warrant being a bard.



Only if we accept your premise that YOUR reality IS reality. I don't. Mostly because it doesn't match my experience. However, I'm not basing the anti-doom thread off of my personal experience but rather statements from the DEV team and decisions from WB. But if you don't believe me (that your opinion is not "reality") then take your own advice:


There is no "my" about it, there is only reality. If I am wrong, then by all means, show us all the abilities that bard had pre swashbuckler that afforded it commiserate power to other classes.



Then you argue:



So... people don't play DDO... but even if a sizable number of people still play... it's still dead?



Obviously that is not what I said at all. Though it's a lot harder to argue against what I actually said isn't it? I don't blame you for making up something ridiculous and then saying I said it so that you could dismiss it, oh wait, I kinda do.




If you don't have a large guild with active members... get a new guild. If your LFMs don't fill quickly, then try filling up your friends list or take a good hard look in the mirror to ask why that might be the case. Check out the "who" list. Plenty of people are playing DDO. I never have trouble filling groups/raids... so not sure which DDO you're playing, but I can assure you that your experience is not ours. I think a lot of people making this claim (not necessarily you, but many) made their bed a long time ago. They had a guild/static group they ran with and treated outsiders who joined their group like they had leprosy. They would gleefully utilize Oracle to deny people entrance to their raids, sending them off with a condescending message. And now that their static group is gone... they wonder why no one will group with them.

Also... once the movie and the expansion hit, the servers will see a significant increase in new players.

See you in game for the expansion! :)

People absolutely LOVE to play with me. I'm an excellent player and a super nice person, I make friends in nearly every group I'm a part of. I've made friends in the short time I've been back, with both super casual players and hard core uber zerging players in top tier guilds. That does not change the fact that the population is a fraction of what it once was. LFMs are a fraction of what they once were. Raids are practically non existent. Before doom happened and everyone stopped playing DDO, you could put up an LFM for any raid at any time and it would fill, albeit some slower than others. On my third day back me and a couple of hard core uber zergers from a top tier guild 3 manned Chronoscope with our super over powered warlocks, it wasn't until the end fight that even a few more people joined, and they were mostly jumping in for some free XP. Couldn't even get an at level elite VoN going so didn't waste time trying. Tempest we 5 manned with a couple jumping in at the end.

A couple of years ago even, long after DDO's hay day, could have filled all those raids in 15-20 minutes. In DDO's hay day, there were multiple raids up at all times. You could fill a group for anything in minutes. Now, you can get a couple TR zergers to join for the high XP/min quests. When I started the paragraph above I logged in to your server, Khyber, and there was one raid up with 2 people waiting. I checked back every couple of minutes, same 2 people waiting, I checked back just now, guess what, 2 people waiting.

I'll tell you what though, let's roll new characters to run an at level elite VoN. We can make iconics and just level them to 12, flag them, and then you can throw up an LFM with your super awesome personality that attracts raiders to your raids like flies to honey. I'll use a name I've never used before so no one will know to stay away from my vile, off putting personality. I'll even pretend to be a super fun guy when people join the raid. I'll even roll a rogue so that the ominous trapper spot will be filled from the start. You name the time and I'll come let you show me how DDO is still vibrant and alive.

[karatemack]

I didn't say DDO is dead because I stopped playing. DDO is dead because the majority of players stopped playing.

I understand that was your claim, I also understand it isn't true. People come and go from MMOs all the time. The playerbase of today may not be the same exact people who were playing 5 years ago. Old people leave, new people come, sometimes old people return. There's an ebb and flow. Then there's also the issue of decline vs death. You claim it's dead because you can't fill groups/raids. I'm sorry, but that isn't my or many others experience. Do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence?



You entirely missed the point. First of all, I was referring to a big argumentative thread about bards from years ago where I specifically remember this particular person denouncing what I said about bards being gimp as I needed to learn how to play a bard. I'm not going to rehash what was said in that thread, and I don't need to rehash what I said above. Simply put, at the specific point in time I was referring to, bards did not have a single ability that was of significant value to warrant being a bard.

Except fascinate or spellsong, right? I'm not going to argue builds of 5 years ago with you. I'm sorry you weren't good at bards back in the day. Some people were. Nuff said.



Obviously that is not what I said at all. Though it's a lot harder to argue against what I actually said isn't it? I don't blame you for making up something ridiculous and then saying I said it so that you could dismiss it, oh wait, I kinda do.

You wrote:


When it comes to doom, the the reality of the matter is there isn't any doom on the horizon because DDO is already a ghost town, it can't really get much worse. Doom happened. The perspective that everything is fine and DDO is chugging right along based on there still being a few people playing DDO is skewed as the reality of the matter is undeniable, the game is a ghost town.

Clearly arguing doom already happened. You also wrote:


Yet because there is still a sizable number of people using this MMORPG as a single player RPG doesn't mean the MMO part isn't dead, because it so very clearly is. You can try to argue it's a matter of opinion, but it's really not.

It isn't my fault you're clearly confused. Which is it? Did DDO die and doom already happened? Or are there still a "sizable" number of people playing as you said? Perhaps the problem is that the "sizable" number of people playing don't all want to solo (as you assume) but rather that you simply aren't connected to their grouping/raiding circles. (Which is an issue, however not one which points to DOOOM necessarily, but rather a need for inclusion.)


People absolutely LOVE to play with me. I'm an excellent player and a super nice person, I make friends in nearly every group I'm a part of. I've made friends in the short time I've been back, with both super casual players and hard core uber zerging players in top tier guilds.

Wait... you've made lots of friends in a short amount of time but there are not people playing...


That does not change the fact that the population is a fraction of what it once was. LFMs are a fraction of what they once were. Raids are practically non existent. Before doom happened and everyone stopped playing DDO, you could put up an LFM for any raid at any time and it would fill, albeit some slower than others. On my third day back me and a couple of hard core uber zergers from a top tier guild 3 manned Chronoscope with our super over powered warlocks, it wasn't until the end fight that even a few more people joined, and they were mostly jumping in for some free XP. Couldn't even get an at level elite VoN going so didn't waste time trying. Tempest we 5 manned with a couple jumping in at the end.

Populations in MMOs ebb and flow all the time (see above). That said, I believe DDO is in a decline due to not having a fleshed out endgame. With the updates over the past year or so (and the upcoming crafting revamp and when the expansion happens) this will no longer be the case. People will return for an expansion. If there is enough end-game content to keep them playing, many will likely stick around for a while. Not to mention the new players who check it out.

The LFM scene feels much worse off than before because of how far the playerbase is spread. Before it was much easier to fill because there was less content competing for group members.

Raids fill based upon the raid you're trying to run. When Shroud and ToD were king, you could certainly fill quickly. Even VoN had its time. But comparing Chronoscope to the new end-level raids is like comparing Titan to Shroud or ToD.


A couple of years ago even, long after DDO's hay day, could have filled all those raids in 15-20 minutes. In DDO's hay day, there were multiple raids up at all times. You could fill a group for anything in minutes. Now, you can get a couple TR zergers to join for the high XP/min quests. When I started the paragraph above I logged in to your server, Khyber, and there was one raid up with 2 people waiting. I checked back every couple of minutes, same 2 people waiting, I checked back just now, guess what, 2 people waiting.

I'll tell you what though, let's roll new characters to run an at level elite VoN. We can make iconics and just level them to 12, flag them, and then you can throw up an LFM with your super awesome personality that attracts raiders to your raids like flies to honey. I'll use a name I've never used before so no one will know to stay away from my vile, off putting personality. I'll even pretend to be a super fun guy when people join the raid. I'll even roll a rogue so that the ominous trapper spot will be filled from the start. You name the time and I'll come let you show me how DDO is still vibrant and alive.

You're welcome to join me anytime on Khyber.

[Chilldude]

Numbers don't lie.

In the case of DDO it's all ebb and no flow. It's a plainly obvious fact that DDO's population is a small fraction of what it once was. If you deny that then you are either new to the game, play exclusively solo/guilded, or just refusing to acknowledge the truth in order to be obstinate. My money would be on obstinate. I'll remove any doubt about DDO's declining numbers with actual statistics:

DDO Oracle hasn't run a report in over year, but the last report they did run back in July 2015 shows DDO has been in a state of steady decline for the three preceding years. http://ddoracle.com/Traffic.html

Steam Charts shows that the number of players playing DDO through Steam has steadily and dramatically declined over that same period of time, correlating the data from Oracle. http://steamcharts.com/app/206480

When I said most of the players stopped playing DDO, it wasn't hyperbole, I was stating a fact.

Gimp is gimp.

At the specific time period I was referring to, and even more specifically in the exact discussion I was referring to fascinate and spell song were of no use to anyone. There was a time, very long ago, when the minuscule amount of SP regeneration provided by spell song was of marginal value, but as I said, that was very long ago. Fascinate, the breaks on damage CC useful only to weak parties, has always been a self defeating argument when it comes demonstrating the power of a bard.

The M in MMO stands for multiplayer.

People soloing DDO do not add to the player base of this multiplayer game.

I didn't compare apples and oranges, I compared today's apples with apples I ate a couple years ago.

On most every life of most every character I've played, elite at level chrono was a relatively quick easy fill/run. That we only had a handful of players at the end was rather shocking to me as to just how few people are playing DDO anymore. I admit, it could be partly due to warlocks being so OP that the three of us progressed through the at level elite raid rather quickly.

Never Never Land

I have no inclination what so ever to play on Khyber. I offered you an opportunity to prove you were right and I was wrong. You said you never have trouble filling raids, you implied if I'm having trouble I must be a terrible person, I figured you'd jump at the chance to show me how you could throw up a VoN LFM and it'd fill right up. However, I just stopped back by Khyber just now, and it's pretty dead. A pit that's been open for over 20 minutes with just 2 people. A Tear with 3 people in it for several minutes now. A couple other heroic quests and one epic GH EEBB group with 5 people in it.

I think maybe what you meant by you have no trouble filling groups and raids is that you don't really need groups to actually fill now that 2 people are as powerful as an entire group and nobody runs raids anymore so there's no reason to post one?

[karatemack]

Chilldude, sorry you're having such a rough go at it. If you need a better experience, feel free to join me anytime on Khyber.

Anyway, nice to see you're still around and participating in the forums... even if you totally think the game is dead (which it isn't).