contrast Path of Exile and Runescape to DDO

[duntduntduuun]

DDO POE

not top of the line graphics both games are decent POE is more recent but its indy art and 3d are not the slickest
Y Y

action RPG multiplayer game that's not strictly speaking all that MMOy
Y Y

free to play
Y- Y+ (DDO gates lots of content with money POE doesn't)

strong leveling content with repeat play strongly encouraged DDO's is wider and less linear, POE's is more linear and narrow but randomized for variety
Y+ Y

massive customization of characters
Y+ Y+

cool intricate dungeons with traps and good lore
Y- Y+ (POE's dungeons are much more dark and creepy DDO's aren't creepy or dark at all they usually feel like someones living room)

strong pay to win aspects (pay gating content or progress)
Y N

monetization of game consists of lots of cosmetic items and huge amounts of storage space
N Y (LOL DDO players wish they had either and have been screaming for both things for years, POE's entire monetization model is based on those two things that DDO players seem to ask for most)

strong end game (Turbine should take notes on POE's end game labyrinth)
N Y

steady or slowly growing player base
N Y

laying off people a lot over the past few years
Y N

went from 7 employees to 50 in three years.
N Y

just my fruitless and pointless opinion blasting into the back hole of the internet but IMHO DDO is doing a couple really key things the wrong way. if you ignore the unimportant differences that admittedly exist between the games and focus on how they operate overall it seems pretty clear that DDO could be doing a number of things better.

dungeons could be more creepy and immersive like dungeons yah know? there should be something significant to do at end game. making all the content free to play and then they could make money on the things players are always screaming for more of, I mean why not design a new supplemental character bound storage system and put them in as hideouts (POE's take on housing) where we can put bound to character items that dont load with our character (see that thread about lag and character bound space to put this comment in context) but only load when we enter our hideout? Or here's a thought just get rid of character bound loot all together (POE's is all unbound and it hasn't hurt that game one bit) then the hideouts could hold supplemental account bound loot stashes.

how about give the engines and animations an update we need more than three swings and arm gestures, and god have the wonderful person who did gnomes faces fix half elf faces for petes sake, make dungeons more dungeony, start selling what people want to buy and have been begging for years for. and stop laying people off and dog whistling to your entire player base that you;re just going to wind things down instead of seeking a new rejuvenated direction. Look at Runescape and tell us why you need to slowly wind down instead of doing something innovative like an engine update and new commitment to content? When a game updates its engine it's telling the player base that they are invested in the long term, here to stay for more years to come. That game is old as dirt, but has updated it's engine like 3 or 4 times and is going strong even growing it's player base, most of that is the feeling that they are commited to continued life of the game and long term investment.

you may now pile on me for suggesting ddo is not perfect and for comparing it to two games that are not exactly the same as it.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I'm not going to pile on you, it's you who is playing, you are going to like what you like. Now that said, you are over-rating PoE just a bit. PoE is a Diablo clone. Yes, it has a dark story line. DDO has far, far greater character customization. Grouping options in PoE are poor. You have far less quests in PoE so after you have gone thru it three times, there really isn't much point to continue. PoE does have player housing and there are actual penalties for death after you 'TR'. However the TR aspect of PoE isn't nearly as good as DDO - DDO at least lets you choose how you want to get your XP, PoE makes you play the exact same quests - just with harder mobs. You are correct though that PoE is a true F2P game (at least was when I played it). PoE is mostly a solo game, a decent Diablo clone but it lacks the depth of DDO, lacks the social interaction, lacks the raid content, and lacks player build depth.

[The_Human_Cypher]

I'm not going to pile on you, it's you who is playing, you are going to like what you like. Now that said, you are over-rating PoE just a bit. PoE is a Diablo clone. Yes, it has a dark story line. DDO has far, far greater character customization. Grouping options in PoE are poor. You have far less quests in PoE so after you have gone thru it three times, there really isn't much point to continue. PoE does have player housing and there are actual penalties for death after you 'TR'. However the TR aspect of PoE isn't nearly as good as DDO - DDO at least lets you choose how you want to get your XP, PoE makes you play the exact same quests - just with harder mobs. You are correct though that PoE is a true F2P game (at least was when I played it). PoE is mostly a solo game, a decent Diablo clone but it lacks the depth of DDO, lacks the social interaction, lacks the raid content, and lacks player build depth.

I am on Act 4 of Path of Exile on the first of three difficulty levels. I can already see that I will probably never play again once I complete Act 4 on the hardest setting, unless I create a new character. And there are only so many class builds in Path of Exile. DDO could keep a new player occupied for years and years...

[sveiks2u]

hmmm may 2016 join date for forum name suggests alt account to stir up $%^&

wonder which forum troll it could be.... nahh

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

hmmm may 2016 join date for forum name suggests alt account to stir up $%^&

wonder which forum troll it could be.... nahh

Don't be hating. Some people get unjustly banned...............

[SeveredSteel]

Path of Exile is one of the best games out there in its genre. People often refer to it as the "true sequel to Diablo".

The random loot system in that game is excellently done. They know why players play : shinies, breh! DDO would do well to take some of those systems and use them. We already had a loot pass for rng loot, which was sort of, kind of, not exactly PoE-esque, but it has some of the traits in it. What PoE does better is the loot is more focused, as in there will never be doubleshot handwraps. Take note of this one. Y u do dis? Don't respond, devs. We know it's cos am lazy, deal.

The other great thing about PoE loot over DDO loot is the named loot. The named loot is so creative that words cannot describe how good it is. You have to try the game and then see the endless amount of named loot and how that pushes builds. The loot effects are made to interact, dynamically with skills(the main abilities in the game used for combat). If DDO could do something that resembles what they're doing with named loot, it would be fantastic. Might be hard to create things like that here because how rare the items in PoE are to get. But just imagine getting loot that synergies with your feats/enhancements in ways that either change them completely or make them a top tier ability.

PoE has the best f2p system ever invented, not even close. The first few acts on the fist difficulty is one of the most entertaining early leveling experiences of any game ever.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

path of exile is one of the best games out there in its genre. People often refer to it as the "true sequel to diablo".

The random loot system in that game is excellently done. They know why players play : Shinies, breh! Ddo would do well to take some of those systems and use them. We already had a loot pass for rng loot, which was sort of, kind of, not exactly poe-esque, but it has some of the traits in it. What poe does better is the loot is more focused, as in there will never be doubleshot handwraps. Take note of this one. Y u do dis? Don't respond, devs. We know it's cos am lazy, deal.

The other great thing about poe loot over ddo loot is the named loot. The named loot is so creative that words cannot describe how good it is. You have to try the game and then see the endless amount of named loot and how that pushes builds. The loot effects are made to interact, dynamically with skills(the main abilities in the game used for combat). If ddo could do something that resembles what they're doing with named loot, it would be fantastic. Might be hard to create things like that here because how rare the items in poe are to get. But just imagine getting loot that synergies with your feats/enhancements in ways that either change them completely or make them a top tier ability.

Poe has the best f2p system ever invented, not even close. The first few acts on the fist difficulty is one of the most entertaining early leveling experiences of any game ever.


sold!
:d

[Minezeye]

Enjoy your De-synch lag deaths , I know I did and thats why I had to stop playing.

No other Arpg I played has as much Lag and de-synch as POE

This is due to the games intense anti cheat / dupe coding... most of the game is run off the server. By the way I think the servers are in Australia... :cool:

Also the graphics are too powerfull for the engine and the whole game slows down when too much stuff is happening... especially when your in a trap filled dungeon (might be fixed now tho)

I did love the tournaments and contests they run during the seasons it was fun until the lag deaths and constant desynch got to me...

Unless you have a really good internet connection I would consider playing a different arpg.

This is not the type of game you play if you like having a main.

Its designed for people who like to constantly roll new heroes and like perma death. Also you can easily mess up your build and gimp your hero
Wasting weeks of work if you don't really study and learn the rules on how to spec and build.

There is no RE spec option. Altho they have rare consumables that let you take back the last few build choices, its by the time you realize your build is gimp its way to late to go back and fix it. You have to reroll.
I was never able to really connect with my character because once your level to around 60 or 70 that's it. You shelf um and start a new one.

Also its like impossible to max level....eventually it takes weeks of grinding if you want one more measly level... games set up that way.

Besides the season contests and races there is nothing really unique about this game. Also almost ALL cool cosmetics and bling weapon effects are sold in the store.
You wont ever really find an item that has visual effects its all plain jane unless you purchase.

The bank and inventory management are really awesome tho, but you have to pay big time for this features.

[The_Human_Cypher]

This is due to the games intense anti cheat / dupe coding... most of the game is run off the server. By the way I think the servers are in Australia... :cool:


Grinding Gear games, Path of Exile's developer, is in New Zealand. I play on a server in Houston.

[dunklezhan]

POE is excellent. If you think there are only the 6 class builds you see on the screen you are very wrong, build complexity is crazy in POE.

However, your cosmetic choices for your actual physical appearance as as varied as... diablo 2. That is to say, there are 6 'looks' to choose from, each look starting on a different place on the crazy skillweb. Itemisation and that skill web make each character highly unique and largely viable, with the very real possibility of making a total hash of things (like DDO in that regard then).

I personally also find its appeal over time limited, I never made it past act 3. But if after playing diablo 3 you found yourself going back to diablo 2 because it was more fun, then POE is very likely a game you're really really going to enjoy.

And its 'F2P-friendliness' is yes, very good indeed. DDO will make you pay, heck they're apparently talking about a new expansion in all seriousness, which means another huge chunk of the game paywalled off even to VIPs. To my mind the point of the OP, that something has gone very wrong with DDO's F2P model, is well made. As Turbine are the game company that basically invented attractive F2P models in western games - doing it so well warner bros took notice and bought them no less - I find that deeply sad although somewhat predictable if you look back to people's worries when WB took over.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

snip

And its 'F2P-friendliness' is yes, very good indeed. DDO will make you pay, heck they're apparently talking about a new expansion in all seriousness, which means another huge chunk of the game paywalled off even to VIPs. To my mind the point of the OP, that something has gone very wrong with DDO's F2P model, is well made. As Turbine are the game company that basically invented attractive F2P models in western games - doing it so well warner bros took notice and bought them no less - I find that deeply sad although somewhat predictable if you look back to people's worries when WB took over.

I really wish all CONTENT (quests, raids, etc) was f2p in DDO. That really bugs me and always has. I much prefer games to offer all the content f2p and then try to squeeze you elsewhere,because then I can choose to not buy all the other stuff and still play the entire game.

[duntduntduuun]

this forum community is beyond toxic and unwelcoming it seems like theirs only people here who attack constructive critisism (by any means necessary) you all almost make POE's admittedly high testosterone bro-filled general chat look warm and inviting. but yeah focus on my join date some more that doesn't make you all seem insulated and distru****l of outsiders lol.

some of you didn't like POE nothing wrong with that i wouldn't expect everyone to like the same things. its besides the point I'm not trying to sell POE to you, I'm trying to point out how successful their implementation of similar features like free to play and microtransactions have been, how their lack of pay gating and pay to win items has caused enough income to help grow their company like 6 times larger than they started with new offices recently. or how their store is full of stuff that people here are constantly begging turbine to put in. if you think DDO is a better game than POE then that brings home the point even more! POE is healthy and growing, despite its flaws (and it's got to be the most newb hostile game I've ever played in terms of learning curve, and the chat is like lel whatever I have yo mamma jokes to tell im not going to answer yo silly newb questions) but somehow it's still successful despite that. don't even get me started on POE's crafting that makes DDO's look intuitive and newb friendly :o.

[duntduntduuun]

Enjoy your De-synch lag deaths , I know I did and thats why I had to stop playing.

No other Arpg I played has as much Lag and de-synch as POE

This is due to the games intense anti cheat / dupe coding... most of the game is run off the server. By the way I think the servers are in Australia... :cool:

Also the graphics are too powerfull for the engine and the whole game slows down when too much stuff is happening... especially when your in a trap filled dungeon (might be fixed now tho)

I did love the tournaments and contests they run during the seasons it was fun until the lag deaths and constant desynch got to me...

Unless you have a really good internet connection I would consider playing a different arpg.

This is not the type of game you play if you like having a main.

Its designed for people who like to constantly roll new heroes and like perma death. Also you can easily mess up your build and gimp your hero
Wasting weeks of work if you don't really study and learn the rules on how to spec and build.

There is no RE spec option. Altho they have rare consumables that let you take back the last few build choices, its by the time you realize your build is gimp its way to late to go back and fix it. You have to reroll.
I was never able to really connect with my character because once your level to around 60 or 70 that's it. You shelf um and start a new one.

Also its like impossible to max level....eventually it takes weeks of grinding if you want one more measly level... games set up that way.

Besides the season contests and races there is nothing really unique about this game. Also almost ALL cool cosmetics and bling weapon effects are sold in the store.
You wont ever really find an item that has visual effects its all plain jane unless you purchase.

The bank and inventory management are really awesome tho, but you have to pay big time for this features.

With all due respect I believe your comments are somewhat outdated as a whole. many of those issues are either no longer the case, or are limited to specific cases or are problems on your end (youtube some speed clears and tell me about how the graphics are too good for everyone instead of just you and your specific setup). In terms of features I'd like to point out that DDO has endless TRs as it's only officially supported end game unless you count 3 LE raids as an end game. and there's no content that requires these TR's I have first life alts that run the limited LE raiding content with no issues. So racing, new "seasons" new leagues, Hard core mode, end game PVP and end game PVE (labyrinth) is at least a few more things than DDO can claim to offer, again not trying to sell POE to you, it didn't strike a cord for you (though tbh it kinda seems like you would like it if you had better internet and graphics card) and I can respect that, but I don't think its fair to push POE down for things DDO doesn't even dream of having. respeccing characters has been relaxed over time and orbs of regret are more plentiful than they used to be and are free unlike DDO. but the truth is that GGG wanted to foster alt play instead of just having a main and that has obviously worked out well for them. So maybe they did something that turned you off but overall was a net positive for the game.

cosmetics wise again I can't see how you can criticize POE here when DDO is far more limited. In POE the boots you put on show up on your character, level 5 boots look like level 5 boots and level 60 boots look like it. along with other stuff none of these need be bought, if you put on level 68 boots they will generally look a LOT cooler than low level boots, in DDO the icon for the boots doesn't even look different let alone on your character. on top of that you buy glowy stuff and wings and adornments that will show up on your existing pieces and just add to the existing look of the item or change it totally to look different etc. so you can add wings to a shiny helm you already like the looks off. in addition there are auras and glowy shiny things far in excess of anything in DDO.

In DDO you can't even see the cosmetic glowy eyes inside of a visible helm because they take up the same channel. so don't try and knock POE for stuff that DDO doesn't even dream of doing. Just setting the record straight not trying to sell POE. or slam DDO (we all know its got lame cosmetics right?) In the end even if you don't care about cosmetics they have filled their store with them and gone from a handful of employees to 50 in 3 years without ever charging a sub or asking people to pay for expansions.


POE is excellent. If you think there are only the 6 class builds you see on the screen you are very wrong, build complexity is crazy in POE.

However, your cosmetic choices for your actual physical appearance as as varied as... diablo 2. That is to say, there are 6 'looks' to choose from, each look starting on a different place on the crazy skillweb. Itemisation and that skill web make each character highly unique and largely viable, with the very real possibility of making a total hash of things (like DDO in that regard then).

I personally also find its appeal over time limited, I never made it past act 3. But if after playing diablo 3 you found yourself going back to diablo 2 because it was more fun, then POE is very likely a game you're really really going to enjoy.

And its 'F2P-friendliness' is yes, very good indeed. DDO will make you pay, heck they're apparently talking about a new expansion in all seriousness, which means another huge chunk of the game paywalled off even to VIPs. To my mind the point of the OP, that something has gone very wrong with DDO's F2P model, is well made. As Turbine are the game company that basically invented attractive F2P models in western games - doing it so well warner bros took notice and bought them no less - I find that deeply sad although somewhat predictable if you look back to people's worries when WB took over.

Thanks for the supporting points, I agree it might not be the game for you if D2 wasn't your thing and it might very much be the game for you if it was (guilty as charged) personally love DDO as well but I find DDOs appeal over time is also limited for lack of an end game thing to do, unlike POE. in POE I very much enjoy getting some buds together each one of us bringing some rare maps for POEs end game lab.

[Cantor]

I really wish all CONTENT (quests, raids, etc) was f2p in DDO. That really bugs me and always has. I much prefer games to offer all the content f2p and then try to squeeze you elsewhere,because then I can choose to not buy all the other stuff and still play the entire game.

That kind of model just doesn't work, unless the store items are so OP that the free players turn into fodder for the payers.

I love the DDO model, how many games have a way to earn currency to unlock content? Virtually everything in the game given enough time.

[LucidLTS]

Path of Exile is one of the best games out there in its genre. People often refer to it as the "true sequel to Diablo".

The random loot system in that game is excellently done. They know why players play : shinies, breh! DDO would do well to take some of those systems and use them. We already had a loot pass for rng loot, which was sort of, kind of, not exactly PoE-esque, but it has some of the traits in it. What PoE does better is the loot is more focused, as in there will never be doubleshot handwraps. Take note of this one. Y u do dis? Don't respond, devs. We know it's cos am lazy, deal.

The other great thing about PoE loot over DDO loot is the named loot. The named loot is so creative that words cannot describe how good it is. You have to try the game and then see the endless amount of named loot and how that pushes builds. The loot effects are made to interact, dynamically with skills(the main abilities in the game used for combat). If DDO could do something that resembles what they're doing with named loot, it would be fantastic. Might be hard to create things like that here because how rare the items in PoE are to get. But just imagine getting loot that synergies with your feats/enhancements in ways that either change them completely or make them a top tier ability.

PoE has the best f2p system ever invented, not even close. The first few acts on the fist difficulty is one of the most entertaining early leveling experiences of any game ever.

I agree!

Plus, the loot is all completely unbound. And the way the progression trees work, you can effectively multiclass even though your character sheet doesn't say so. Any class can pull in the abilities of any other class, and there are hundreds of viable and reasonably balanced builds. You can't have everything, but you can have anything.

I also love how quick they are to fix bugs, and how slow they are to change things people count on for their build, and that they always offer a complete free re-level to every character affected by the changes they do make. They really treat their players with respect.

DDO could indeed learn much from PoE, and be far the better game for it. I bet Turbine is very relieved they went for a Diablo clone not a WoW clone, they'd be tough to compete against if they were in the same market ;)