Half-Orc Pure Barbarian Build THF (Help Needed)

[Issac_Frost]

So I found this:

https://lordofantics.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/a-pure-barbarian-build/

And its a good guideline but for a human barbarian. I'm pretty new to this game. And I cannot, for the life of me, find an optimized Half Orc Build with the new Enhancements. As such I'm at a loss as to how to build him. So I need help or possibly a thread with a good solid build. I can start as Level 7 and have remade several times trying to get it right. And I'm failing miserably. I also trying to figure a good leveling guide but again nothing on this. Help?

Thank you and much appreciated.

[Grailhawk]

So I found this:

https://lordofantics.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/a-pure-barbarian-build/

And its a good guideline but for a human barbarian. I'm pretty new to this game. And I cannot, for the life of me, find an optimized Half Orc Build with the new Enhancements. As such I'm at a loss as to how to build him. So I need help or possibly a thread with a good solid build. I can start as Level 7 and have remade several times trying to get it right. And I'm failing miserably. I also trying to figure a good leveling guide but again nothing on this. Help?

Thank you and much appreciated.

Barbarian is petty easy.

Max STR and get a hight CON (16+).

Take Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, THF, ITHF, and GTHF (or which ever combat style you prefer).

Spend 41 AP in Frenzied Berserk for the capstone with out taking any tier 5's, put ~36 AP in Ravager taking Core 18, Critical Rage, and Blood Strength. There are a few other options for AP but this is the standard one.

Race is not really a meaningful choice right now, other then to say you didn't take human which is the only good choice. Human offers for 1 AP +20% Damage boost and an extra feet for free, to put this another way if you're not human your not optimal.

[Issac_Frost]

Barbarian is petty easy.

Max STR and get a hight CON (16+).

Take Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, THF, ITHF, and GTHF (or which ever combat style you prefer).

Spend 41 AP in Frenzied Berserk for the capstone with out taking any tier 5's, put ~36 AP in Ravager taking Core 18, Critical Rage, and Blood Strength. There are a few other options for AP but this is the standard one.

Race is not really a meaningful choice right now, other then to say you didn't take human which is the only good choice. Human offers for 1 AP +20% Damage boost and an extra feet for free, to put this another way if you're not human your not optimal.

I actually rolled a human one in case I didn't find anything else to go on :) Well guess I'll read that build I found and work on my Human Barbarian.

[icekinslayer]

I actually rolled a human one in case I didn't find anything else to go on

Here's some info for you, and fwiw, half orc barb's are really awesome, and by no means are human barbs the 'only optimal barbarian'

http://ddowiki.com/page/Half-Orc <--check out the racial enhancements for hitting with 2-handed melee weapons...

http://ddowiki.com/page/Frenzied_Berserker_enhancements <--frenzied berserker has a lot to offer in terms of strength and con bonuses via rages

http://ddowiki.com/page/Occult_Slayer_enhancements <--occult slayer is the 'must kill all magic users' tree, some really good stuff in here.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Ravager_enhancements <--ravager and frenzied berserker both have some good strength and con bonuses, as well as some good enemy debuffing attacks.

So yeah, strength, con, and if you're crazy like me, a little charisma so you can UMD teleport, raise dead, restoration, and heal scrolls. (quite hard to get a usable UMD on a half orc because of the charisma penalty, but it can be done.)

[Grailhawk]

Here's some info for you, and fwiw, half orc barb's are really awesome, and by no means are human barbs the 'only optimal barbarian'


Show me any other race that with 1AP spend can give you a +20% boost to damage (PDK is human don't be a smart ass). Hell outside of Bladforged and Half-Elf show me any other race that can give you +20% boost to damage with x AP spent?

This isn't just for Barbarian human is the only optimal choice for 98% of melee builds.

[icekinslayer]

Show me any other race that with 1AP spend can give you a +20% boost to damage (PDK is human don't be a smart ass). Hell outside of Bladforged and Half-Elf show me any other race that can give you +20% boost to damage with x AP spent?

This isn't just for Barbarian human is the only optimal choice for 98% of melee builds.


some 30 second clickies don't make or break any build, don't be silly. warforged/bladeforged are awesome barbarians, dwarves are awesome barbarians, and so are humans/pdk. don't act so butthurt over someone else's build choices, you're not paying for them to play, so it's really kind of stupid to insist that one race is the only race to play for any melee build.

[Grailhawk]

some 30 second clickies don't make or break any build, don't be silly. warforged/bladeforged are awesome barbarians, dwarves are awesome barbarians, and so are humans/pdk. don't act so butthurt over someone else's build choices, you're not paying for them to play, so it's really kind of stupid to insist that one race is the only race to play for any melee build.

That clicky has 100% uptime for the vast majority of builds, you're trying to dismiss I don't know if that's ignorance or just you trying to make your point either way your wrong, when talking about the optimal choice.

I'm not butthurt at all. I'm stating a mathematical fact that for an optimal (this means best, there is only one best) build Barbarian human the best racial choice.

There are other good/fine choices but there's only one optimal choice. Op asked for optimal.

[Issac_Frost]

It's okay guys. This thread is not to argue. Also I asked for optimal with Half-Orc but I can play both. I found a good guide for Half-Orc just need the enhancements updated that's all.

[Hobgoblin]

Show me any other race that with 1AP spend can give you a +20% boost to damage (PDK is human don't be a smart ass). Hell outside of Bladforged and Half-Elf show me any other race that can give you +20% boost to damage with x AP spent?

This isn't just for Barbarian human is the only optimal choice for 98% of melee builds.

challenge accepted!

You have a drow that you dumped str on. using shortswords

you deal an average of 4 damage a hit.

you take the enhancement xendrick weapons training for 1 damage.

that is a 25% increase.

boom i just did it!





ok that was in no way serious and if you are only doing 4 damage a hit you have other issues, but just to mess with you.

[Hobgoblin]

It's okay guys. This thread is not to argue. Also I asked for optimal with Half-Orc but I can play both. I found a good guide for Half-Orc just need the enhancements updated that's all.

basically it was covered earlier in the thread.

you want the capstone from fb. so thats 41 points in there

you want the tier 5 from ravager so thats 33 to 37 points i like 36

so you are looking at 77 points in those 2 trees

so from there you can go racial and get +1 str and +2 situationally that doesn't stack with rage, or go into occult slayer and take ear smash to deal with annoying casters.

[sithhound]

That clicky has 100% uptime

How do you get 100% uptime from a 20 sec. action boost? Legitimate question, not being argumentative. How? What do you get, 6 uses with the ship buff? So 120 sec., do you really shrine every 2 minutes, or am I missing something here?

[Hobgoblin]

How do you get 100% uptime from a 20 sec. action boost? Legitimate question, not being argumentative. How? What do you get, 6 uses with the ship buff? So 120 sec., do you really shrine every 2 minutes, or am I missing something here?

8 with dread i think 10 with items and not counting tf draconic reinvigoration

[sithhound]

8 with dread i think 10 with items and not counting tf draconic reinvigoration

Ahh, I forgot about draconic reinvigoration (I hate deathwyrm lol). I suppose that's what Grail was referring to. However, I think it's safe to assume OP doesn't have access to T3 TF though, as he was asking for advice on a first life toon.

OP: horcs make awesome barbs. Max strength or con, put rest of points into the other. Follow the above advice on AP spread. Kill s#!t and have fun.

[zwiebelring]

When my main has finally reached his final build (doing a lot of fine tuning at the moment) I will take care of my barbarian. Currently it is an outdated 18 Bar/ 2 Ftr build. Also Half Orc, because back then STR score at max. was guaranteed high dps.
I won't choose HOrc anymore.

I chose Human, Dwarf or even Elf over it any day. Racial enhancements are expensive and human offers better general bonuses. Elf got a very good defense dwarf is just great as CON build and ravager.

The new score to maximize is melee power, ability seems only second in priority. So, amount of feats available mean higher melee power options. The fighting style is next. THF does not seem high dps anymore. I see mostly TWF + dwarf axe + ravager rocking LE content (of course multi TRs but on LE that's expected).

I expect TWF Bar as human to be better dps than THF HOrc. Focus on crit. range + multiplier and melee power. Highest STR only with tactical DC but is stunning blow even madatory any longer? I don't see many stunners besides monks. Could be an indication.

All in all I see HOrc lackluster in survivability for barbarians and the racial bonuses are probably more useful for hybrid and multiclass builds. Human and dwarf have better options. Elf with dragonmark gives awesome Displacement.

[Issac_Frost]

When my main has finally reached his final build (doing a lot of fine tuning at the moment) I will take care of my barbarian. Currently it is an outdated 18 Bar/ 2 Ftr build. Also Half Orc, because back then STR score at max. was guaranteed high dps.
I won't choose HOrc anymore.

I chose Human, Dwarf or even Elf over it any day. Racial enhancements are expensive and human offers better general bonuses. Elf got a very good defense dwarf is just great as CON build and ravager.

The new score to maximize is melee power, ability seems only second in priority. So, amount of feats available mean higher melee power options. The fighting style is next. THF does not seem high dps anymore. I see mostly TWF + dwarf axe + ravager rocking LE content (of course multi TRs but on LE that's expected).

I expect TWF Bar as human to be better dps than THF HOrc. Focus on crit. range + multiplier and melee power. Highest STR only with tactical DC but is stunning blow even madatory any longer? I don't see many stunners besides monks. Could be an indication.

All in all I see HOrc lackluster in survivability for barbarians and the racial bonuses are probably more useful for hybrid and multiclass builds. Human and dwarf have better options. Elf with dragonmark gives awesome Displacement.

O.O

Sir? I'm a total newbie. I just want to have fun. Sure I can optimize it to human with a reincarnation or whatnot. But most of that stuff is if I even go that far. Plus you are arguing in a thread over something that may or may not be fact. Could be you are stating fact or not. But I deal with that when I get (if I get that far into it)

Yes I know the nuances of optimizing for a PnP DnD game. But then again you have forum posts that give you usable handbooks with color codes to avoid traps xD

Just maybe Half-Orc is a trap. I'll find out and change it. Don't worry so much about it.

[Alisonique]

Can I just add my 2d worth?
Horcs make super barbs as do both dwarves and warforged.
All allow you to have huge fun hitting things hard fast and often.
Dont worry about min/max deals if Horc is what you fancy
go for it and you wont be disappointed. Those are the three races
that I have run as barbarians and they all work fine. Having said
that , I am sure that you can make a fun barb from any race ,
Geoff seems to have funn with halfling barbs and human ones
seem to fare pretty well too. Enjoy the game

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

some 30 second clickies don't make or break any build, don't be silly. warforged/bladeforged are awesome barbarians, dwarves are awesome barbarians, and so are humans/pdk. don't act so butthurt over someone else's build choices, you're not paying for them to play, so it's really kind of stupid to insist that one race is the only race to play for any melee build.

I've got a WF barb.....and he's pretty badass!

(Disclaimer: I'm still tring him into a human next life! :p)

[Grailhawk]

How do you get 100% uptime from a 20 sec. action boost? Legitimate question, not being argumentative. How? What do you get, 6 uses with the ship buff? So 120 sec., do you really shrine every 2 minutes, or am I missing something here?

Action Hero from LD to make uptime = cooldown, +3 more action boosts from LD and then +3 more from class since we are talking barbarian. IMO Action Hero is almost better then Blitz as a selling point for LD...

You can also swap in some use the items that give you extra action boost as an effect as swap items (once you use up the 2 boots swap to something better) and you can exploit Draconic Rejuvenation weapons (especially on a SWF or TWF).



I chose Human, Dwarf or even Elf over it any day. Racial enhancements are expensive and human offers better general bonuses. Elf got a very good defense dwarf is just great as CON build and ravager.

I agree all three are better choices then Horc but. Displacement can be duplicated with clickies (which you can get more charges of then the dragonmark offers) makes elf only really good to someone without the clickies and subpar once you have the clickies.

Dwarf < Human con based TWA is kind of a trap (hate saying that i really do) a Human who goes con based will maybe be 8-12 points of damage/to-hit behind a dwarf however human damage boost more then makes up for that. The hit point totals will be around 100 different (assuming the dwarf goes all out into getting every HP advantage he can). And that's before you take into account the Dwarf is basically wasting ~17Ap in his racial tree that the human has put into class trees. (I'm bringing this up because the superiority of human to other races bothers me a lot right now, not because I'm trying to discredit or disagree with you.)



I expect TWF Bar as human to be better dps than THF HOrc. Focus on crit. range + multiplier and melee power. Highest STR only with tactical DC but is stunning blow even madatory any longer? I don't see many stunners besides monks. Could be an indication.

I agree, IMO if you want tactics/stunning option Dire Charge is where you look not stunning blow.


Dont worry about min/max deals if Horc is what you fancy go for it and you wont be disappointed.

Right human is the min/max choice, you don't have to min max and on a barbarian it wont make or brake you.

[unbongwah]

So to move away from the max-DPS discussions and actually address the OP's request for a HO barb, here's a build I'm planning to use for my HO:

Harper Horcbarian
Barbarian 20
True Neutral Half-Orc


Stats
32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 20 20 20 +2 4: STR
Dexterity 8 8 8 +2 8: STR
Constitution 14 15 16 +2 12: STR
Intelligence 14 14 14 +2 16: STR
Wisdom 8 8 8 +2 20: STR
Charisma 6 6 6 +2 24: STR
28: STR

Feats

1 : Power Attack
3 : Cleave
6 : Great Cleave
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
12 : Two Handed Fighting
15 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
18 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Stunning Blow
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction OR Insightful Reflexes
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Blinding Speed
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (41 AP)


Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury, Visage of Terror

Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III
I Like Pain III, Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
Festering Wound III, Strength
I Hit Back! III, Dismember III
Blood Strength, Bully I, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage II



Half-Orc (18 AP)


Orcish Fury, Orcish Strength, Orcish Fury II, Orcish Strength II

Orcish Weapon Training
Orcish Weapon Training
Great Weapon Aptitude III, Orcish Weapon Training
Brutality, Orcish Weapon Training



Frenzied Berserker (14 AP)


Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy

Extra Rage I, Power Rage II
Extra Action Boost III
Supreme Cleave III



Harper Agent (7 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles II



Leveling Guide


Rav0 Furious Rage; Rav1 Barbarian Power Attack I, II, III
FB0 Die Hard; FB1 Power Rage I
FB1 Power Rage II; FB0 Frenzied Toughness; FB1 Extra Rage I; FB2 Extra Action Boost I
FB2 Extra Action Boost II, III; FB3 Supreme Cleave I, II
FB3 Supreme Cleave III; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? I; Rav0 Pain Touch; Rav2 I Like Pain I
FB0 Frenzy; Rav2 Melee Power Boost I, II, III
Rav0 Demoralizing Success; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? II; Rav2 I Like Pain II; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? III
Rav2 I Like Pain III; Rav3 Strength; Rav2 Cruel Cut I
Rav2 Cruel Cut II, III; Rav3 Festering Wound I, II
Rav3 Festering Wound III; Rav4 I Hit Back! I, II, III
Rav4 Dismember I, II, III; (Bank 1 AP)
Rav0 Pain Touch II; Rav5 Blood Strength; Rav5 Critical Rage I
Rav5 Critical Rage II; Rav5 Uncanny Balance
Rav5 Bully I; Orc0 Orcish Fury; Orc1 Orcish Weapon Training
Orc0 Orcish Strength; Orc2 Orcish Weapon Training
Orc0 Orcish Fury II; Orc0 Orcish Strength II
Orc3 Orcish Weapon Training; Orc3 Great Weapon Aptitude I, II, III
Rav0 Subsiding Fury; Orc4 Orcish Weapon Training; Orc4 Brutality
Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness I
Rav0 Visage of Terror; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness II; Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop


Twists of Fate (36 fate points)


Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)


Basically, I trade the higher burst DPS and extra feat from human and the higher DPS of Storm's Eye for higher Stunning Blow / Dire Charge DCs (thanks to higher STR + Know the Angles) and extra helpless DPS from Brutality + Bully (which AFAIK stack). [If I didn't have Harper, I'd put more APs into FB for Angry Arms + Mad Munitions + Frenzied Toughness.] This is specced for greataxes b/c I still have a Raider's box on this toon so I plan to claim a Cleaver (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cleaver,_Hewer_of_Suffering); converting to mauls instead is easy (trade IC:Slash for Blunt and Headman's Chop for Pulverizer).

[Issac_Frost]

Thanks. Though I found a build :)

Also from Zoda's Zergbarian:


Non-humans have to drop a feat; if you don't have Completionist yet, that's the obvious choice. The other downside to non-human is losing the burst DPS from racial Dmg Boost + Ravager Melee Power boost. Other than that, it should be fine.

So its a -fact- that humans -are- the best thanks to an easily accessible 1 AP Action Boost. I smell this is broken as all hell because its too easy. But aside from that burst I can do Half-Orc and /still/ pull damage. The rest is just overkill, which is nice don't get me wrong. But not required unless you was on that mindset. I doubt I'm TR or all that good stuff. But I intend to play my Half-Orc and he is doing great.

Edit: I got the capstone (Eye Storm thingy) on the planner. Plus the enhancements on Ravager. But I shaved some points and grabbed the Rage duration. Not that it changes much. But for me that's still a useful effect.

Edit 2:Ooooh hah its -you-! Awesome! I'll give that build a try too.

[CaptainPurge]

The simple fact is barbarian class enhancements are so strong that all racial enhancements are nullified - with the exception of human damage boost. Any points in race are flavor, TYWA sounds cool for barbarian but sadly add seasoning to taste. Grailhawk's first post nailed it down, you put 0 points in race except human.
Edit: this probably doesn't apply for a new player who wants to add HP/CON, and this is in the new player sub.

[Grailhawk]

Edit: this probably doesn't apply for a new player who wants to add HP/CON, and this is in the new player sub.

You have no idea how much I don't want to say this but, Human with level ups in Con will be better under that situation.

[lyrecono]

Action Hero from LD to make uptime = cooldown, +3 more action boosts from LD and then +3 more from class since we are talking barbarian. IMO Action Hero is almost better then Blitz as a selling point for LD...

You can also swap in some use the items that give you extra action boost as an effect as swap items (once you use up the 2 boots swap to something better) and you can exploit Draconic Rejuvenation weapons (especially on a SWF or TWF).



I agree all three are better choices then Horc but. Displacement can be duplicated with clickies (which you can get more charges of then the dragonmark offers) makes elf only really good to someone without the clickies and subpar once you have the clickies.

Dwarf < Human con based TWA is kind of a trap (hate saying that i really do) a Human who goes con based will maybe be 8-12 points of damage/to-hit behind a dwarf however human damage boost more then makes up for that. The hit point totals will be around 100 different (assuming the dwarf goes all out into getting every HP advantage he can). And that's before you take into account the Dwarf is basically wasting ~17Ap in his racial tree that the human has put into class trees. (I'm bringing this up because the superiority of human to other races bothers me a lot right now, not because I'm trying to discredit or disagree with you.)




I agree, IMO if you want tactics/stunning option Dire Charge is where you look not stunning blow.



Right human is the min/max choice, you don't have to min max and on a barbarian it wont make or brake you.

i agree, the dwarf is a trap, you get a lot of hp in the cores and heal amp to boot.
I have a pure barb pdk in endgame and my guild leader a dwarven barb because he thought the hp would be better for surviving LE, he was wrong, the hp difference wasn't enough to justify the drop in dps, the dwarf tree swallowed too many AP, the barb tree netted more dps. He tr-ed out of it real fast, after constantly getting knocked down.
Both toons were equal in past lives and gear btw.


Human is more optimal and new player friendly due to the early access to dps from the barb tree and core 1 human, not having to waste it in the horc line.

H-orc can be a nice flavor build though, just stay away from elite runs unless they know you.

[Baktiotha]

Barbarian is petty easy.

Max STR and get a hight CON (16+).

Take Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, THF, ITHF, and GTHF (or which ever combat style you prefer).

Spend 41 AP in Frenzied Berserk for the capstone with out taking any tier 5's, put ~36 AP in Ravager taking Core 18, Critical Rage, and Blood Strength. There are a few other options for AP but this is the standard one.

Race is not really a meaningful choice right now, other then to say you didn't take human which is the only good choice. Human offers for 1 AP +20% Damage boost and an extra feet for free, to put this another way if you're not human your not optimal.

What is the real value of the 1 AP or the extra feat? What skills are you taking when you only have enough INT to spend 1 AP per level anyway? What do you pick as your second skill? Intimidate doesn't seem valuable in most situations and tops out because of low CHA so hardly seems worth an investment. Jump and Swim are both handy but Jump has a hard cap and Swim isn't really needed often and if you are building with STR you probably don't need much investment in either. That leaves Listen as the only class skill. Might as well invest in UMD and spend any leftover build points on CHA. Might get to the point where skill plus items lets you have a reasonable chance to use scrolls -- which could have some value after reaching L20.

So, the only thing really valuable out of human is the damage boost. That is significant when it is active. But, how often is it really needed?

I would take Grailhawk's advice but go ahead and build half-orc if that's what you envision a barbarian to be. Do be aware that with 41AP in FB and 36 in Ravager you only have 3 ap to spend elsewhere -- so orc enhancements won't have much meaning. Don't build half-orc barbarian looking at taking half-orc racial enhancements.

[Baktiotha]

some 30 second clickies don't make or break any build, don't be silly. warforged/bladeforged are awesome barbarians, dwarves are awesome barbarians, and so are humans/pdk. don't act so butthurt over someone else's build choices, you're not paying for them to play, so it's really kind of stupid to insist that one race is the only race to play for any melee build.

No, you are correct. The damage boost isn't a requirement and a player can certainly get by without it and be very successful. The notion that they cannot run in elite content is inaccurate as are most of the assertions about the great superiority of race choices granting the damage boost v those that do not.

A more valid point of view is that the majority of players are probably building with the 41/36 AP split that Grailhawk mentions. That leaves a measly 3 AP to spend anywhere else for any purpose.

The action boost will shorten difficult fights. It will have a benefit when soloing where high DPS is needed to complete an encounter. It does have a benefit when grouping by speeding up particularly challenging fights. So there are reasons to consider taking the damage boost if you can.

But, the real reason to focus on human/PDK instead of on other races has to do with the lack of AP to spend in the racial enhancement tree. Pretty much every AP spent in a racial tree is one not spent in FB/Ravager. And, generally speaking, that isn't a wise choice for a new player.

So, with only 3 AP to spend, what gets you the most bang for the buck?

Obviously that is somewhat subjective but most people think damage boost does that.

Still, that isn't the reason to choose human/PDK over some other race. Pick the race based on what is in your thought process about what a barbarian should be like. Half-orc certainly seems barbaric, so choosing that as the race for a barbarian build is fine.

[Grailhawk]

What is the real value of the 1 AP or the extra feat? What skills are you taking when you only have enough INT to spend 1 AP per level anyway? What do you pick as your second skill? Intimidate doesn't seem valuable in most situations and tops out because of low CHA so hardly seems worth an investment. Jump and Swim are both handy but Jump has a hard cap and Swim isn't really needed often and if you are building with STR you probably don't need much investment in either. That leaves Listen as the only class skill. Might as well invest in UMD and spend any leftover build points on CHA. Might get to the point where skill plus items lets you have a reasonable chance to use scrolls -- which could have some value after reaching L20.

So, the only thing really valuable out of human is the damage boost. That is significant when it is active. But, how often is it really needed?

I would take Grailhawk's advice but go ahead and build half-orc if that's what you envision a barbarian to be. Do be aware that with 41AP in FB and 36 in Ravager you only have 3 ap to spend elsewhere -- so orc enhancements won't have much meaning. Don't build half-orc barbarian looking at taking half-orc racial enhancements.


At no point did I ever say anything about the extra skill point human get, I was talking about Damage Boost only costing 1AP.

Damage boost is active so often that saying its up 100% of the time is not a lie. 12 use + Action Hero in LD means the only down time is when your running to the next fight. (Raids and long quest with no shrine are covered by a Draconic Rejuvenation Item)

To be clear is said race is not a meaningful choice. I did not ever say he had to choose human I just said human was the undisputed optimal choice.

[lyrecono]

What is the real value of the 1 AP or the extra feat? What skills are you taking when you only have enough INT to spend 1 AP per level anyway? What do you pick as your second skill? Intimidate doesn't seem valuable in most situations and tops out because of low CHA so hardly seems worth an investment. Jump and Swim are both handy but Jump has a hard cap and Swim isn't really needed often and if you are building with STR you probably don't need much investment in either. That leaves Listen as the only class skill. Might as well invest in UMD and spend any leftover build points on CHA. Might get to the point where skill plus items lets you have a reasonable chance to use scrolls -- which could have some value after reaching L20.

So, the only thing really valuable out of human is the damage boost. That is significant when it is active. But, how often is it really needed?

I would take Grailhawk's advice but go ahead and build half-orc if that's what you envision a barbarian to be. Do be aware that with 41AP in FB and 36 in Ravager you only have 3 ap to spend elsewhere -- so orc enhancements won't have much meaning. Don't build half-orc barbarian looking at taking half-orc racial enhancements.

wow, what nonsense.....

Skills;
balance, essential to get back up faster.
Heal, for boosting Consecration& holy ground, the only healing from ED that works when raged
UMD to get around with teleport late in the game, good for buffs. ignore the build points in charisma, a first lifer can use those etter in str and con.
Jump isn't needed, you'll have plenty of str and potions to make up for it
swim is useful in 1 quest that requires a high reflex save in other words, bring a rog or monk for that quest.
Intimidate is indeed a waste for a first life barb, you'll be missing the cha and items to boost it to a useful level
Listen is a forgotten skill in the game, even the devs forgot it exists.

race
Human gives an extra feat, meaning you'll get power attack and cleave at lv 1, fast dps at low levels
Half orc is pretty mediocre these days, the barb enh give more bang for your buck.

Human damage boost
that depends on your play style, a smart barb uses it on bosses and clutches of enemies when cleaving.
As a low dps first lifer this will come in handy in content with self healing enemies and to take down those with high damage output before they kill you.

Enh,
The dragonmark tree is useless on a str based h-orc, you'll lack the cha to make it work
You gain more dps out of the barb trees compared to the h-orc tree, also more hp and heal amp, wich should help him survive his first life as a barb

[Baktiotha]

At no point did I ever say anything about the extra skill point human get, I was talking about Damage Boost only costing 1AP.

Apologies, did not read it that way. Went back and reread after your post ^^^ and see where I was confused. :o

[Baktiotha]

wow, what nonsense.....

Skills;
balance, essential to get back up faster.
Heal, for boosting Consecration& holy ground, the only healing from ED that works when raged
UMD to get around with teleport late in the game, good for buffs. ignore the build points in charisma, a first lifer can use those etter in str and con.
Jump isn't needed, you'll have plenty of str and potions to make up for it
swim is useful in 1 quest that requires a high reflex save in other words, bring a rog or monk for that quest.
Intimidate is indeed a waste for a first life barb, you'll be missing the cha and items to boost it to a useful level
Listen is a forgotten skill in the game, even the devs forgot it exists.

race
Human gives an extra feat, meaning you'll get power attack and cleave at lv 1, fast dps at low levels
Half orc is pretty mediocre these days, the barb enh give more bang for your buck.

Human damage boost
that depends on your play style, a smart barb uses it on bosses and clutches of enemies when cleaving.
As a low dps first lifer this will come in handy in content with self healing enemies and to take down those with high damage output before they kill you.

Enh,
The dragonmark tree is useless on a str based h-orc, you'll lack the cha to make it work
You gain more dps out of the barb trees compared to the h-orc tree, also more hp and heal amp, wich should help him survive his first life as a barb

Not nonsense -- other than misunderstanding Grailhawk initially when I thought he meant 1 skill point rather than the damage boost costing 1 action point.

Build advice (from others) is to dump everything other than STR and CON. On a 32 point build (OP mentions being able to start at L7) that works out to 16 build points in STR and 16 build points in CON. Every other stat is at minimum. On a 28 point build or 34 point build there are build points that you can't use on STR and CON. At 28 points you can only spend 16 build points on one or the other of STR/CON. That leaves 2 build points. On 36 point builds you spend 32 and have 4 points left over. Where do you spend those is the point I'd make. Do you spend them in INT for skill points to buy more things you don't need or on WIS to help with saves or on DEX to help with whatever or on CHA to help with UMD? I'm suggesting that if you are spending on UMD that CHA might be the better place for those spare build points. Note that healing is WIS, balance is DEX....

Barbarians will get 2 skill points per level, an extra skill point if human. The question is what do you use those skill points for? As you point out, all of the class skills are pretty worthless -- the same observation I made. I asked what will you spend the skill points on and noted UMD is probably the most valuable of them. If you need balance then that's great, if you need heal then wonderful. The question is, how necessary are any of them -- heal, balance, UMD, whatever? At best you've made an argument in favor of 3 skills and "teleport late in game and buffs" isn't much of a reason to spend on UMD. I can make an argument for ignoring either of heal or balance and most especially balance. And, since they are all cross-class skills they need gear boosts to be really useful in any case -- bringing gear and slot choices into question.

Getting cleave at L1 isn't very meaningful. The bonus damage is mediocre at best. But, that isn't really the question either. You get 7 feats from L1 to L20. As a human you get 8 feats. What extra feat are you taking and how does it matter? The standard 7 are PA, cleave, great cleave, THF, ITHF, GTHF (or the TWF equivalents or the SWF equivalents) and 1 more. That 1 more is often IC: X (bludgeon, slash, whatever). So, what else are you going to take with the 8th (human) feat and how does it make the barbarian better?

Racial tree, as has been pointed out, is a trap since you should be spending at least 77 points in two of the barbarian trees.

[Baktiotha]

Damage boost is active so often that saying its up 100% of the time is not a lie. 12 use + Action Hero in LD means the only down time is when your running to the next fight. (Raids and long quest with no shrine are covered by a Draconic Rejuvenation Item)

There is a difference between how often is damage boost used and how often is it needed. If it is always up it is sort of hard to judge when it is needed and when it is just convenient. :)

[Grailhawk]

Getting cleave at L1 isn't very meaningful. The bonus damage is mediocre at best. But, that isn't really the question either. You get 7 feats from L1 to L20. As a human you get 8 feats. What extra feat are you taking and how does it matter? The standard 7 are PA, cleave, great cleave, THF, ITHF, GTHF (or the TWF equivalents or the SWF equivalents) and 1 more. That 1 more is often IC: X (bludgeon, slash, whatever). So, what else are you going to take with the 8th (human) feat and how does it make the barbarian better?

Heavy Armor, or Stunning Blow are both meaningful and good choice that help make human an even better choice then other races on a Barb.


There is a difference between how often is damage boost used and how often is it needed. If it is always up it is sort of hard to judge when it is needed and when it is just convenient. :)

Unless you are killing every mobs in one blow DPS has not reach a point of diminished returns, so +20% damage is good and better then every other option.

[Baktiotha]

Heavy Armor, or Stunning Blow are both meaningful and good choice that help make human an even better choice then other races on a Barb.

Unless you are killing every mobs in one blow DPS has not reach a point of diminished returns, so +20% damage is good and better then every other option.

You might jump to the last page or so of the thread on Armor Up to see if heavy armor is really such a good choice. Stunning blow is not a personal favorite of mine but not worth spending a lot of time over.

The point about killing faster still doesn't really answer the question about need. The idea that it is better than every other option suggests that race is an issue with human/PDK being the only valid choices.

Both of the items fall into the category of "if you are human." Neither of them is so important that players should feel compelled to only play human barbarians.

[Issac_Frost]

I'm running this build.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.31.203
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Chromag Synast
Level 20 Chaotic Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 530
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 5
Will: 5

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 20 25 28
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 14
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 6 6 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 2 11 10
Bluff 0 0 -2
Concentration 0 0 2
Diplomacy 0 0 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 0 11 9
Heal 0 0 -1
Hide 0 0 -1
Intimidate 4 23 21
Jump 4 22 31
Listen 4 23 22
Move Silently 0 0 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 0 2
Search 0 0 2
Spellcraft 0 0 2
Spot 2 11 10
Swim 0 0 9
Tumble 2 2 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+2)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1.5)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Brutality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Hard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Frenzy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Power Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Power Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Furious Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Pain Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Demoralizing Success (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Pain Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Subsiding Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Do You Like Pain? (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Do You Like Pain? (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Do You Like Pain? (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Like Pain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Like Pain (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Like Pain (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Cruel Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Cruel Cut (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Cruel Cut (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Action Boost: Melee Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Action Boost: Melee Power (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Action Boost: Melee Power (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Festering Wound (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Festering Wound (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Festering Wound (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Hit Back! (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Hit Back! (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - I Hit Back! (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Dismember (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Dismember (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Dismember (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Blood Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Bully (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Uncanny Balance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Critical Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Critical Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Agent of Good (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Harper Enchantment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Traveler's Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Traveler's Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Know The Angles (Rank 1)




Credit goes to unbongwah

[lyrecono]

Not nonsense -- other than misunderstanding Grailhawk initially when I thought he meant 1 skill point rather than the damage boost costing 1 action point.

Build advice (from others) is to dump everything other than STR and CON. On a 32 point build (OP mentions being able to start at L7) that works out to 16 build points in STR and 16 build points in CON. Every other stat is at minimum. On a 28 point build or 34 point build there are build points that you can't use on STR and CON. At 28 points you can only spend 16 build points on one or the other of STR/CON. That leaves 2 build points. On 36 point builds you spend 32 and have 4 points left over. Where do you spend those is the point I'd make. Do you spend them in INT for skill points to buy more things you don't need or on WIS to help with saves or on DEX to help with whatever or on CHA to help with UMD? I'm suggesting that if you are spending on UMD that CHA might be the better place for those spare build points. Note that healing is WIS, balance is DEX....

Barbarians will get 2 skill points per level, an extra skill point if human. The question is what do you use those skill points for? As you point out, all of the class skills are pretty worthless -- the same observation I made. I asked what will you spend the skill points on and noted UMD is probably the most valuable of them. If you need balance then that's great, if you need heal then wonderful. The question is, how necessary are any of them -- heal, balance, UMD, whatever? At best you've made an argument in favor of 3 skills and "teleport late in game and buffs" isn't much of a reason to spend on UMD. I can make an argument for ignoring either of heal or balance and most especially balance. And, since they are all cross-class skills they need gear boosts to be really useful in any case -- bringing gear and slot choices into question.

Getting cleave at L1 isn't very meaningful. The bonus damage is mediocre at best. But, that isn't really the question either. You get 7 feats from L1 to L20. As a human you get 8 feats. What extra feat are you taking and how does it matter? The standard 7 are PA, cleave, great cleave, THF, ITHF, GTHF (or the TWF equivalents or the SWF equivalents) and 1 more. That 1 more is often IC: X (bludgeon, slash, whatever). So, what else are you going to take with the 8th (human) feat and how does it make the barbarian better?

Racial tree, as has been pointed out, is a trap since you should be spending at least 77 points in two of the barbarian trees.


There is a difference between how often is damage boost used and how often is it needed. If it is always up it is sort of hard to judge when it is needed and when it is just convenient. :)

as a first lifer balance and heal are better, you can't umd reliably until epics anyway (on a first life barb)

Cleave gets extra damage but that isn't the best thing, it gets an arc of attack and attacks faster than a normal attack

There is a difference between how often is damage boost used and how often is it needed. If it is always up it is sort of hard to judge when it is needed and when it is just convenient

huh? is this fran?
if you're playing a barb you're potentially playing a dps melee, you do damage and occasionally take it, that's it.
Human damage boost is one of the most optimal ways of doing this
The OP came here for advise on a barb, if he didn't want to have a barb to do dps he would never had come to the forum and go for the feat: skill focus craft basket weaving 7 times in a row (or 8 as a human)

old D&D players and old WotC forumites will get the reference

[Baktiotha]

The OP came here for advise on a barb

Actually, no, he did not.

The thread title is Half-Orc Pure Barbarian Build THF (Help Needed). Everyone seems to have missed that underlined part.

We don't give advise on how to build a half-orc by saying, "start with a human." We especially do not do that when the original post specifically rejects choosing human.


So I found this:

https://lordofantics.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/a-pure-barbarian-build/

And its a good guideline but for a human barbarian.

(Bolding and underlining ^^^^ mine for emphasis.)

People make it sound as if the world ends if OP does not choose human and take the 20% damage boost. That is just not true. The game is not that difficult. If a person *needs* the damage boost that says more about the person and less about the game or the character class.

OP is not asking for a better barbarian build. OP is asking for a better half-orc barbarian build.

Losing sight of that does a disservice to the OP.

[lyrecono]

half orc is still hallf human.

full human is beter.

nice jab about needing 20% extra damage, he is a first lifer, he needs all the help he can get.

Go human, delete the half orc, try it on a tr life

[Issac_Frost]

half orc is still hallf human.

full human is beter.

nice jab about needing 20% extra damage, he is a first lifer, he needs all the help he can get.

Go human, delete the half orc, try it on a tr life

It seems everyone also missed the build by unbongwah. Which I changed a few things at first but decided to change it to something else (ie 8 Rages because I like having a lot of Rage. So My build now has Extra Rage III) I'm also going for ungbowah's Know the Angles in the Harper Tree, which I have. I do have a human barbarian. Yes sure he has more damage. Am I having more fun with the Orc build? Absolutely. Am I having trouble with it? Not at all. Do I really need a 20% boost. Possibly. Or possibly not. Because I'm doing very well with the build unbongwah made. Oh and I want to play as a half orc. Not as a human. Don't care how optimal human is.

[Baktiotha]

oh and i want to play as a half orc. Not as a human. Don't care how optimal human is.

:)

[Issac_Frost]

:)


:p

But its true. I'm having way more fun with the half-orc. Sure I lose 20% boost. I know that's optimal. But ungbongwah's build is pretty **** effective. Only thing that gives me problems is a blind spell so I grabbed a bunch of blind removals. Other then that this build by him is pretty great.

[zwiebelring]

O.O

Sir? I'm a total newbie. I just want to have fun. Sure I can optimize it to human with a reincarnation or whatnot. But most of that stuff is if I even go that far. Plus you are arguing in a thread over something that may or may not be fact. Could be you are stating fact or not. But I deal with that when I get (if I get that far into it)

Yes I know the nuances of optimizing for a PnP DnD game. But then again you have forum posts that give you usable handbooks with color codes to avoid traps xD

Just maybe Half-Orc is a trap. I'll find out and change it. Don't worry so much about it.

Don't know what is confusing about my post. It is a suggestion for you, who sought to play a pure barbarian (even if your title is about HOrc). Also, fun does not exclude my suggestion. Nor does it improve it automatically. I just suggested that HOrc seems not as good as it seems, because +2 STR is compensated by the other races through various other stats (not just that silly 20% dps clicky, I hate clickies, for example but I value many skill points and many feats).

DDO is a game with a high level of 'fishing for bonus'. If you like high STR and you build for it, go for it. If you just like the look sof HOrc, go for it. But I suggest to try other races as barbarian with the possibility in mind to get even more fun. If you like versatile melee characters HOrc might be disappointing. That all is with endgame difficulty in mind. If that does not apply to you, no suggestion is more viable than:

Play whatever you want as long as you have fun!

But keep in mind that you might hit a wall at some point. There is where improvement and build planning comes into play. Also, playing an effective character does not include 3x completionist. In fact, the best minimal effort is to get 1-4 past lives in average supporting your initial character idea. My barbarian is still 1st life, had to change stats by LR 2 times but other than that, he still works by his items. But if I started a new life with him, I'd change his class split and race to either dwarf or probably human even. This charcater performed better than the current barbarian, still not even close to completionist or epic completionist and he never would be.

[CaptainPurge]

You have no idea how much I don't want to say this but, Human with level ups in Con will be better under that situation.

You have no idea how bad this disgusts me, Human is the master race in DDO. I RP a human IRL. So keep working on race passes.

[Issac_Frost]

So to move away from the max-DPS discussions and actually address the OP's request for a HO barb, here's a build I'm planning to use for my HO:

Harper Horcbarian
Barbarian 20
True Neutral Half-Orc


Stats
32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 20 20 20 +2 4: STR
Dexterity 8 8 8 +2 8: STR
Constitution 14 15 16 +2 12: STR
Intelligence 14 14 14 +2 16: STR
Wisdom 8 8 8 +2 20: STR
Charisma 6 6 6 +2 24: STR
28: STR

Feats

1 : Power Attack
3 : Cleave
6 : Great Cleave
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
12 : Two Handed Fighting
15 : Improved Two Handed Fighting
18 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Stunning Blow
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction OR Insightful Reflexes
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic : Blinding Speed
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (41 AP)


Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury, Visage of Terror

Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III
I Like Pain III, Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
Festering Wound III, Strength
I Hit Back! III, Dismember III
Blood Strength, Bully I, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage II



Half-Orc (18 AP)


Orcish Fury, Orcish Strength, Orcish Fury II, Orcish Strength II

Orcish Weapon Training
Orcish Weapon Training
Great Weapon Aptitude III, Orcish Weapon Training
Brutality, Orcish Weapon Training



Frenzied Berserker (14 AP)


Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy

Extra Rage I, Power Rage II
Extra Action Boost III
Supreme Cleave III



Harper Agent (7 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness II
Know the Angles II



Leveling Guide


Rav0 Furious Rage; Rav1 Barbarian Power Attack I, II, III
FB0 Die Hard; FB1 Power Rage I
FB1 Power Rage II; FB0 Frenzied Toughness; FB1 Extra Rage I; FB2 Extra Action Boost I
FB2 Extra Action Boost II, III; FB3 Supreme Cleave I, II
FB3 Supreme Cleave III; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? I; Rav0 Pain Touch; Rav2 I Like Pain I
FB0 Frenzy; Rav2 Melee Power Boost I, II, III
Rav0 Demoralizing Success; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? II; Rav2 I Like Pain II; Rav1 Do You Like Pain? III
Rav2 I Like Pain III; Rav3 Strength; Rav2 Cruel Cut I
Rav2 Cruel Cut II, III; Rav3 Festering Wound I, II
Rav3 Festering Wound III; Rav4 I Hit Back! I, II, III
Rav4 Dismember I, II, III; (Bank 1 AP)
Rav0 Pain Touch II; Rav5 Blood Strength; Rav5 Critical Rage I
Rav5 Critical Rage II; Rav5 Uncanny Balance
Rav5 Bully I; Orc0 Orcish Fury; Orc1 Orcish Weapon Training
Orc0 Orcish Strength; Orc2 Orcish Weapon Training
Orc0 Orcish Fury II; Orc0 Orcish Strength II
Orc3 Orcish Weapon Training; Orc3 Great Weapon Aptitude I, II, III
Rav0 Subsiding Fury; Orc4 Orcish Weapon Training; Orc4 Brutality
Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness I
Rav0 Visage of Terror; Hrp1 Traveler's Toughness II; Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought


Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Strength
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop


Twists of Fate (36 fate points)


Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Sacred Ground (Tier 3 Crusader)
Consecration (Tier 2 Crusader)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Primal Scream (Tier 1 Fury)


Basically, I trade the higher burst DPS and extra feat from human and the higher DPS of Storm's Eye for higher Stunning Blow / Dire Charge DCs (thanks to higher STR + Know the Angles) and extra helpless DPS from Brutality + Bully (which AFAIK stack). [If I didn't have Harper, I'd put more APs into FB for Angry Arms + Mad Munitions + Frenzied Toughness.] This is specced for greataxes b/c I still have a Raider's box on this toon so I plan to claim a Cleaver (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cleaver,_Hewer_of_Suffering); converting to mauls instead is easy (trade IC:Slash for Blunt and Headman's Chop for Pulverizer).

I been running the build as is. But I found out that you can only get Know the Angles I. It seems the Ravager tree is actually using 42 points instead of 41. I already have FB out of the way. A good deal of Rav and Orcish pretty much out of the way. But HA it seems I can only fit a Know the Angles I. Am I missing something here?

[CaptainPurge]

I been running the build as is. But I found out that you can only get Know the Angles I. It seems the Ravager tree is actually using 42 points instead of 41. I already have FB out of the way. A good deal of Rav and Orcish pretty much out of the way. But HA it seems I can only fit a Know the Angles I. Am I missing something here?

No Harper. More Ravager. And more ale. Much ale yummy.
No points in race except Human. It disgusts me, playing Human in a fantasy, but we have to adapt. Thanks for all you do.

[Adorse]

No Harper. More Ravager. And more ale. Much ale yummy.
No points in race except Human. It disgusts me, playing Human in a fantasy, but we have to adapt. Thanks for all you do.

I have fully maxed out barb whos a dwarf. Dwarf is probably the best race for this class as you get bonus con due to race and even more hp and str from the frenzy enhancements. I might try out a human barb in a few months just to see how it goes... =P

[Grace_ana]

OP, you will find that there are four levels of builds:

1. Mix-maxed: This is often what you will find when you read the main forums. Past lives, epic destinies, raid gear, etc. These are not newbie friendly. However, some of them are adaptable to be more newbie-friendly. It just depends on the build. When people say "optimal," this is generally what they mean. But unless you are going to be running a lot of legendary elites short-manned, you probably don't need to worry about this.

2. Solid: This is capable of running pretty much whatever you want in heroics, epic normal and hard, and with a decent group epic elite. Most people land somewhere in here.

3. Viable: This is a build that has made some odd choices, usually for fun, but can still generally play fine through at least heroics and epic hard to cap. It's not the best, but it's still fine.

4. This was a terrible idea: These builds are actually more rare than they used to be, but occasionally you can still find them. Terrible class splits (like 10 cleric/10 bard), or dumping a primary stat (like the guy that used to insist on dumping int for an assassin rogue, because assassinate "didn't matter"), or failing to take certain necessary feats for a particular build (like not taking zen archery on a monk ranged toon). This is sometimes where the other half - the ones who insist you can play anything you want to play, special snowflake, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise - falls down on the job. People will warn you away from these choices, usually with some panic. Unfortunately, some players also use the same tone when you're doing anything but min-maxing, and for a new player, you can't tell the difference.

The problem comes in when newer players ask about builds, and the newbies think there are only two options: good builds and bad builds. Longtime players start treating anything that isn't the min-max as "bad," thereby giving the newbie the impression that a choice like half-orc is horrific and no one could possibly consider doing anything but human because that one boost will make the difference between you being an amazing soloer of legendary elites, or being put in stockades in the marketplace for people to laugh at you. The reality is that your race very rarely makes that much of a difference in your build's viability, particularly for a new player. I even made an elf cleric aways back. Why? I don't know, I wanted an elf cleric. It was far and away not the min-maxed choice. But she still does fine.

In short, have fun with your half-orc if that's what you want to play. You'll be just fine.

[Elfishski]

OP, you will find that there are four levels of builds:

1. Mix-maxed: This is often what you will find when you read the main forums. Past lives, epic destinies, raid gear, etc. These are not newbie friendly. However, some of them are adaptable to be more newbie-friendly. It just depends on the build. When people say "optimal," this is generally what they mean. But unless you are going to be running a lot of legendary elites short-manned, you probably don't need to worry about this.

2. Solid: This is capable of running pretty much whatever you want in heroics, epic normal and hard, and with a decent group epic elite. Most people land somewhere in here.

3. Viable: This is a build that has made some odd choices, usually for fun, but can still generally play fine through at least heroics and epic hard to cap. It's not the best, but it's still fine.

4. This was a terrible idea: These builds are actually more rare than they used to be, but occasionally you can still find them. Terrible class splits (like 10 cleric/10 bard), or dumping a primary stat (like the guy that used to insist on dumping int for an assassin rogue, because assassinate "didn't matter"), or failing to take certain necessary feats for a particular build (like not taking zen archery on a monk ranged toon). This is sometimes where the other half - the ones who insist you can play anything you want to play, special snowflake, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise - falls down on the job. People will warn you away from these choices, usually with some panic. Unfortunately, some players also use the same tone when you're doing anything but min-maxing, and for a new player, you can't tell the difference.

The problem comes in when newer players ask about builds, and the newbies think there are only two options: good builds and bad builds. Longtime players start treating anything that isn't the min-max as "bad," thereby giving the newbie the impression that a choice like half-orc is horrific and no one could possibly consider doing anything but human because that one boost will make the difference between you being an amazing soloer of legendary elites, or being put in stockades in the marketplace for people to laugh at you. The reality is that your race very rarely makes that much of a difference in your build's viability, particularly for a new player. I even made an elf cleric aways back. Why? I don't know, I wanted an elf cleric. It was far and away not the min-maxed choice. But she still does fine.

In short, have fun with your half-orc if that's what you want to play. You'll be just fine.

Yep, this is great advice. Don't worry about what's optimal, certainly not on your first life. There are a lot of wonderfully designed quests and the first time through you'll enjoy them more at a slower pace anyway. No matter what you do, if you join groups with the serious vets, you won't keep up with them at first so don't worry about trying.

Also - stuff like the action boosts from human? Very powerful for an already powerful character with high damage output if you get the timing of butting pressing right, but even if you remember to use it, you won't notice the difference on a first life. By the time you're on your 3rd or 10th life (though you won't be able to image that now), then start worrying about what's really optimal... and by then you'll be able to look at the enhancement trees and sift out the really great stuff from the useless stuff yourself.

Most importantly - if you're having fun then your character is just perfect as it is.

[zwiebelring]

If I ever played a character from scratch again I only focussed on a few synergetic past lives. No completionist and for sure no epic completionist.

[Doomflayer]

Now for human, since that is the "optimal" build please list that build.

[Fenrisulven7]

Half-Orc returns to the tavern to find his party of 5 humans still arguing over the most optimal way to rescue Arlos from the Kobold Prison.

He says: "Guys, I would like you to meet my new friend Arlos."

Humans begin new argument on most effective way to...