Plat Capped and nothing to buy?

[Kielbasa]

Back before the the shard auction house and bound gear in every adventure pack I used to be able to be able to buy stuff when I just wasn't lucky enough to loot it myself. Now I just don't know what to do with all that plat. I check the auction house for any twink random gen gear I can find but rarely do I find anything I want. Plus it takes forever to look at each piece since it is fruitless to use the search function as it doesn't pick up the hidden effects you are looking for. What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?

[itstheguy]

Maybe buy some useful things like tomes, good gear ect. and give to guildies or just give some plat out to them. Another similar idea is do some trivia or other form of contest for guildies or players in harbor for the items and or plat.

[icekinslayer]

What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?

Buy stacks of heal, raise dead and restoration scrolls and give them to guildies, or randoms. Buy stacks of pots like cure moderate, remove curse/disease and give them to guildies, or randoms.

[AlcoArgo]

You can buy halflings in the Marketplace for about 500K PP/ea. Pick up a couple of those and you should have plenty of room.

[awar1234]

I also had a similar problem.... Here is what I did to try and solve it on Argo server.

I STOPPED ALL ASTRAL SHARD AH!!
Then I began to post all my loot from quests on the plat AH.
Things sold amazingly fast... Maxed out my plat
Then I bought a bunch of ingredients and rare scrolls and tomes.

Now I always post all my loot on PLAT AH for easy prices new and vets will enjoy.

I have noticed an uptick in the AH ACTIVITY.

[dontmater]

you could make an elf AA toon then you could reset the enhancements every time you log in

[awar1234]

Back before the the shard auction house and bound gear in every adventure pack I used to be able to be able to buy stuff when I just wasn't lucky enough to loot it myself. Now I just don't know what to do with all that plat. I check the auction house for any twink random gen gear I can find but rarely do I find anything I want. Plus it takes forever to look at each piece since it is fruitless to use the search function as it doesn't pick up the hidden effects you are looking for. What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?


Please don't tAke this the wrong way....
But you are thinking mostly how YOU benefit...

Turn that around to how to help others with your same problem and you will find you have made you life better by helping other who have same problem.

There is a wonderful book called " how to win friends and influence people"
There is a basic principle in there that says something like.... Find out how to fill other persons needs and you will automatically fill yours... Or something like that

[Marshal_Lannes]

DDO should allow you to convert max to plat to an X amount of astral shards. It really is such an easy solution I can't believe it takes me to tell them this.

[Ghoulstorm]

DDO should allow you to convert max to plat to an X amount of astral shards. It really is such an easy solution I can't believe it takes me to tell them this.

That'll really boost the profit margin.

[acdcrocks]

That'll really boost the profit margin.

1,000,000 plat = 60 AS

[Gremmlynn]

DDO should allow you to convert max to plat to an X amount of astral shards. It really is such an easy solution I can't believe it takes me to tell them this.Why would they want to do that though? Right now, outside of a pittance from daily dice or the like, all AS comes into the game from the store.

Valueless plat is actually a good thing from their perspective, as it means anything of real value is exchanged on the ASAH with AS they sell with 30% going back to them.

[Forzah]

Why would they want to do that though? Right now, outside of a pittance from daily dice or the like, all AS comes into the game from the store.

Valueless plat is actually a good thing from their perspective, as it means anything of real value is exchanged on the ASAH with AS they sell with 30% going back to them.

The reasoning would be similar to introducing F2P packs. Maybe the option of converting some plat to AS will increase their total profits since people start to engage more on the AS market.

[Kebtid]

Playing custom builds and exploring specific classes and build combos has always drained my plat in this game.
Esp when you try something to hit a wall, try to climb over it, then hit another wall, then try to find another route to hit another wall.
Before you realize it your plat reset for ap ends up being 500 k per reset, its actually quite easy to use up all plat you have in this game by just playing the game and testing random builds and trees.
Now combo that will all the bugs and not wai mechanics that exist in the game you will surely make the following thread "How to get plat capped in this game?".

[TitusOvid]

How about doing the noble thing and donate plat to new players. Did that idea ever occured to you?

[Marshal_Lannes]

Why would they want to do that though? Right now, outside of a pittance from daily dice or the like, all AS comes into the game from the store.

Valueless plat is actually a good thing from their perspective, as it means anything of real value is exchanged on the ASAH with AS they sell with 30% going back to them.

Actually I would call the money they get from selling astral shards a pittance. Do you know anyone in game that buys them? I don't. Do you know anyone who has ever used the astral shard teleporters? I don't. And all astral shards don't come into the game from the store, they come in from the Monster Manuel. I would be that this is the vast majority of astral shards now except for those players who still have a horde (and are still playing) from selling duped items on the shard exchange. Very few, if any, people are actually buying astral shards from the store.

[Kielbasa]

So basically post more on the plat AH more to help revive it seems like the best long term solution to my problem. I do post there but usually only stuff that isn't vendor trash maybe I'll be a bit less discerning now. For those of you with constructive advice thanks. Wish turbine had implemented a grab all attachments button/delete all mail when they capped the mailbox as the inventory tetris minigame in ddo is pretty time consuming. They need to have a mark for auction house button for items in your inventory that way you can mass post things with say a 10% markup from whatever they default post at. I only have so much time to play and do not wish to spend the first and last 15 minutes of every gaming session at the mailbox and auction house.

[Enoach]

I run into this issue often with my 6 characters

At one point I could buy rare collectables/ingredients, the AH has less of these items then before the Shard AH

Now I buy Hair Dye and send it to a Guildmate who's daughter likes using them on her characters :)
I also will go add time to Legacy Guild buff and other Buff and intractables that can be found in the ship hold.

But I do like the idea of buying consumables and giving them away; either to randoms or putting in guild chest <- I do this when I need to spend collectables down because my Huge bag is full.

[LightBear]

I used to do that a lot, give stuff away to low level players. But then I started to do iconic life runs. Fun, but less to give away. For the OP,I still find plenty to buy on AH.

You can also stack up on consumables.

[krimsonrane]

Back before the the shard auction house and bound gear in every adventure pack I used to be able to be able to buy stuff when I just wasn't lucky enough to loot it myself. Now I just don't know what to do with all that plat. I check the auction house for any twink random gen gear I can find but rarely do I find anything I want. Plus it takes forever to look at each piece since it is fruitless to use the search function as it doesn't pick up the hidden effects you are looking for. What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?

Give some away. I do.

[AbyssalMage]

Back before the the shard auction house and bound gear in every adventure pack I used to be able to be able to buy stuff when I just wasn't lucky enough to loot it myself. Now I just don't know what to do with all that plat. I check the auction house for any twink random gen gear I can find but rarely do I find anything I want. Plus it takes forever to look at each piece since it is fruitless to use the search function as it doesn't pick up the hidden effects you are looking for. What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?
I have yet to reach the point where there isn't stuff I still don't need. Unfortunately most of that stuff is only available on the Shard Exchange now :( So although I am not swimming in PP, I don't have an overabundance either.

I have met two very nice individuals who were in your position.

PP - They gave my toons (two different people on two different servers to be clear) a little over 1 mil PP each. Wasn't a lot to them but it was very huge to me, just starting out on the server. They new these weren't my mains, that I had experience playing, but it was to me or someone else, and I joined there PUG.
Potions - Consumables are expensive to a fist lifer, they had plenty to spare for me. I never realized how fast I go through cure potions until I switch servers.
They bought up Raid Timer Bypasses and Jeweler Kits.
They purchased Ingredients that were/are popular (GS, TF, and some collectables).

[Axeyu]

How about doing the noble thing and donate plat to new players. Did that idea ever occured to you?

Deprive people of a valuable experience just to make yourself feel better, how noble.

[Chai]

Actually I would call the money they get from selling astral shards a pittance. Do you know anyone in game that buys them? I don't. Do you know anyone who has ever used the astral shard teleporters? I don't. And all astral shards don't come into the game from the store, they come in from the Monster Manuel. I would be that this is the vast majority of astral shards now except for those players who still have a horde (and are still playing) from selling duped items on the shard exchange. Very few, if any, people are actually buying astral shards from the store.

The vast majority of AS come into the game through real money purchases. When the people you are referring to sold those items, think about where those shards came from. Im near maxed out on monster manual and I didn't get 100 AS from it. I move items for far more than that, per item, and the market takes ~a third of the AS out of each transaction. The market might sustain a small minority of net positive earners, but the vast majority of it is net negative consumers - aka RL money purchasers.

[Enoach]

Deprive people of a valuable experience just to make yourself feel better, how noble.

I see your response and can only wonder what happened to you to become so jaded at the idea that sharing digital wealth would require such a sarcastic response.

This is something I miss from DDO's earlier days when it was populated with more people that brought the "Around the kitchen table, PnP days" attitude towards sharing and helping everyone have an enjoyable time.

[Taimasan]

Deprive people of a valuable experience just to make yourself feel better, how noble.


Yea this is kinda salty dude.

[Ykt]

How about doing the noble thing and donate plat to new players. Did that idea ever occured to you?

You mean 1250 pp? Or 2500pp if he's level 2? Yeah that will deplete fast.

Those new players could simply be favor farmers who will never come back to your server. You're making a bad investment by giving them money for not playing on your server. New players should have some kind of optional flag so people can help them and not expect them to know everything.

[Enderoc]

Should use plat as a crafting ingredient in an eldritch ritual....like using plat and gemstones to create a treasure hunter enchantment to give plus 1-3 on loot tables (WHEN YOU RANSACK CHESTS...hint on when you use chest blessers and gems when you are grinding primarily for ingredients) or other easily thought of ideas.

Yes Mr. No one waits for me to bless... Thunderholme is where you are useful if you aren't putzing around. Especially after countless pulls on rares...

[Marshal_Lannes]

T The market might sustain a small minority of net positive earners, but the vast majority of it is net negative consumers - aka RL money purchasers.

Source? I think this might have been true when the AS first came out and people bought them cause it was new (and there were more players in the game). As I said, of all the people I know in game, none buy them now.

[Gremmlynn]

The reasoning would be similar to introducing F2P packs. Maybe the option of converting some plat to AS will increase their total profits since people start to engage more on the AS market.Maybe at something like 4 million plat to 10 AS. The problem with this is that it's hard to get the players who aren't already engaging to do so (I'm guessing mostly casual players), without giving away the farm to those that already are due to disparities in rates plat is earned.

[Gremmlynn]

Actually I would call the money they get from selling astral shards a pittance. Do you know anyone in game that buys them? I don't. Do you know anyone who has ever used the astral shard teleporters? I don't. And all astral shards don't come into the game from the store, they come in from the Monster Manuel. I would be that this is the vast majority of astral shards now except for those players who still have a horde (and are still playing) from selling duped items on the shard exchange. Very few, if any, people are actually buying astral shards from the store.Do you know of any guilds with fully loaded Krakens? I do and highly doubt those thousands of AS worth of investment didn't primarily come from the DDO store.

[Chai]

Source? I think this might have been true when the AS first came out and people bought them cause it was new (and there were more players in the game). As I said, of all the people I know in game, none buy them now.

The only "limitless" source of AS is RL money transactions. All other sources don't even provide enough AS to buy one of the items I sold in the past, and I moved enough to know the market has ALOT more AS in it than what comes from daily/weekly rolls (most of which do not result in AS) and monster manual. Couple that with the fact that the P2WAH takes 30-40% shards out of the system per transaction, and the only logical OBJECTIVE conclusion is that the vast majority comes from points purchased, the majority of which comes from RL money transactions.

Years later, and people continue to confuse other ways to earn it with the way the vast majority are obtained. This is likely because "there are other ways to earn it" was used repeatedly as justification to defend it each time the possible negative ramifications to the health of the game due to implementation of the P2WAH were discussed, and in order to get this to stick, have to argue it as an absolute rather than own up to the miniscule degree to which it can be earned in game comparatively. Never mind that seeing a tome drop is akin to seeing a unicorn in real life, since even if it has a smaller chance than zombie Ed Mcmahon showing up at my door with a publishers clearinghouse check, that still means it can happen right? So too with the amount of AS earned through gold/silver rolls and monster manual, compared to that which enters the game as a purchase.

If you were going to make a case for getting them free, more can be earned through TRing elite once and done repeatedly and using the points to buy AS, than through monster manual or gold/silver rolls. (unless of course someone is running up the credit card on gold/silver rolls, and not just using their free ones, in which case its more efficient to just buy the AS, neither of which is earning it in game free).

[Marshal_Lannes]

Do you know of any guilds with fully loaded Krakens? I do and highly doubt those thousands of AS worth of investment didn't primarily come from the DDO store.

Oh yah Gremm I agree people did and do spend AS on the ships. Those were no doubt a huge cash cow and one of the reasons we will never be able to scale back ship buffs. I was speaking specifically of the AS auctions.

[Marshal_Lannes]

The only "limitless" source of AS is RL money transactions. All other sources don't even provide enough AS to buy one of the items I sold in the past, and I moved enough to know the market has ALOT more AS in it than what comes from daily/weekly rolls (most of which do not result in AS) and monster manual. Couple that with the fact that the P2WAH takes 30-40% shards out of the system per transaction, and the only logical OBJECTIVE conclusion is that the vast majority comes from points purchased, the majority of which comes from RL money transactions.

Years later, and people continue to confuse other ways to earn it with the way the vast majority are obtained. This is likely because "there are other ways to earn it" was used repeatedly as justification to defend it each time the possible negative ramifications to the health of the game due to implementation of the P2WAH were discussed, and in order to get this to stick, have to argue it as an absolute rather than own up to the miniscule degree to which it can be earned in game comparatively. Never mind that seeing a tome drop is akin to seeing a unicorn in real life, since even if it has a smaller chance than zombie Ed Mcmahon showing up at my door with a publishers clearinghouse check, that still means it can happen right? So too with the amount of AS earned through gold/silver rolls and monster manual, compared to that which enters the game as a purchase.

If you were going to make a case for getting them free, more can be earned through TRing elite once and done repeatedly and using the points to buy AS, than through monster manual or gold/silver rolls. (unless of course someone is running up the credit card on gold/silver rolls, and not just using their free ones, in which case its more efficient to just buy the AS, neither of which is earning it in game free).

So no source, this is your opinion. Just wanted that clarified for purposes of the discussion. While I realize my experience is anecdotal data I just don't know anyone who actually buys shards to use on the AH and therefore, my conclusion that they might as well offer a plat to AS exchange is valid. Yes, there are many characters that are max plat cap, but that's a one time thing. It is not all that easy to go from 0 plat to 4.293 million plat.

[Chai]

So no source, this is your opinion. Just wanted that clarified for purposes of the discussion. While I realize my experience is anecdotal data I just don't know anyone who actually buys shards to use on the AH and therefore, my conclusion that they might as well offer a plat to AS exchange is valid. Yes, there are many characters that are max plat cap, but that's a one time thing. It is not all that easy to go from 0 plat to 4.293 million plat.

Not my opinion, its the only logical objective conclusion. The key word here is objective. My source is the game mechanics itself as pointed out in the post you quoted.

Its quite easy to get to max plat. Most people don't see it as necessary, because consumables don't cost that much, and anything else of value that is sellable will be on the P2WAH. Endgame BiS loot nowdays is either BTC or BTA.

I rolled up a character two weeks ago on a new server. It has max plat this weekend. I needed to spend some before I took other auctions out of the mail or I would have lost plat. Other than buying consumables I no longer need to participate in that economy. I also only did things everyone else can easily do, which is if I have no immediate use for an item, its goes onto the plat AH for reasonable cost.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

you could make an elf AA toon then you could reset the enhancements every time you log in

lol.. so true...lol

[Saekee]

the game should have some
means of gaining favor with entities like the Silver Flame by donating plat to their temples. I think this was in BG2.

Not sure who, or what favor, or numbers and effects. Nothinh powercreepy--maybe with enough donations you get a devout cosmetic.

[Forzah]

The vast majority of AS come into the game through real money purchases.

Yes.



The market might sustain a small minority of net positive earners, but the vast majority of it is net negative consumers - aka RL money purchasers.

This is not necessarily true. A minority of big buyers can spread their wealth to other players through purchasing on the AH, allowing a majority of net positive earners. Is this the case? I don't know. But it's quite easy to become a net positive earner, all you have to do is one daily dice roll and sell one item....

[Six_Gun]

Source? I think this might have been true when the AS first came out and people bought them cause it was new (and there were more players in the game). As I said, of all the people I know in game, none buy them now.

*facepalm*

There is so much fail in your posts it's not ever worth trying to explain things to you.

[Chai]

Yes.



This is not necessarily true. A minority of big buyers can spread their wealth to other players through purchasing on the AH, allowing a majority of net positive earners. Is this the case? I don't know. But it's quite easy to become a net positive earner, all you have to do is one daily dice roll and sell one item....

What you are saying cannot happen for the majority in a system which removes 30-40 percent of the currency per transaction, forcing the need for new currency to enter the system regularly. To become a net positive earner those AS had to come from somewhere. The majority of players cannot be net positive earners in the p2wah. A minority of players can, with the AS earned being mostly from the majority of net negative consumers purchasing AS. If no AS was docked per transaction, then what you are saying here would be possible. Of course, if that was the case, any profits Turbine makes on the p2wah would cease at some point, as that is the entire purpose of the AS sync.

[kmoustakas]

Back before the the shard auction house and bound gear in every adventure pack I used to be able to be able to buy stuff when I just wasn't lucky enough to loot it myself. Now I just don't know what to do with all that plat. I check the auction house for any twink random gen gear I can find but rarely do I find anything I want. Plus it takes forever to look at each piece since it is fruitless to use the search function as it doesn't pick up the hidden effects you are looking for. What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?

In my years in DDO I almost never ran out of things to buy. More often than not, I need to buy something for 2m and all my toons have 1,8 and I have to jump through hoops (not vip, no plat vault). But the few times I max out I just go and buy augments, there's always augments for sale in Sarlona.

[Baktiotha]

Deprive people of a valuable experience just to make yourself feel better, how noble.

I endorse this point of view.

It is presumptuous for forumites to think that OP has not already contemplated giving away plat. It is equally presumptuous to presume that OP has not already purchased stacks of consumables or made other investments.

OP is pointing to a real problem with the plat based auction house. The only response thus far that addresses the issue is the one where the response is placing saleable gear on the plat AH instead of the shard AH.

Like many others, I too have passed on gear and plat to new players. Interestingly, I seldom get a thank you. At times I will do so randomly by picking out a L1 or L2 character and mailing gear or plat. Often I get the mail returned after it has expired in their in box.

It is wrong to just assume that a new player wants or needs our hand-me-downs. More than that, it is wrong to assume that newly created characters belong to new players.

OP has pointed to a problem with the plat AH. It is not actually a problem with a surplus of plat, it is a problem with how the players would rather post the best gear on the shard AH as if shards hold more value.

And, because of the way Turbine has approached shards they do have more value. You can repair damaged gear for plat and risk permanent damage OR you can repair damaged gear for shards and there is no risk at all. You can buy some things for the guild using plat BUT the best upgrades require shards. You can buy a hireling for plat and use one at a time OR you can buy hirelings for shards and use as many as the party size allows.

The question is, do we really need to use the shards? It is almost criminal the way Turbine runs the shard AH. How many forumites would be pleased if their government took a third of their income in taxes? What if you got paid in one currency but had to purchase the only usable currency before you could go to the market?

That is what shards are. You spend a third of your profit when you sell an item. Those shards are lost to circulation. To get more the players must spend actual money -- dollars, euros, pounds, whatever the currency is for their nation.

And for what? For electrons. For something that is not real and that will never become real.

Now, I am not against Turbine making money. I pay a VIP subscription. I spend close to $200 US dollars every month on things I do not need -- on electrons -- just to change a hair style or to have a cosmetic clothing or to get a LR heartwood in order to try a different build idea. I am not against spending real money for electrons.

But, I do empathize with the OP's point -- that there is seldom good gear on the plat AH. And, like the reply about posting good stuff to the plat AH, I too have taken that approach. The problem is not with surplus plat. The problem is with those fellow players who do not post items to the plat AH.

So, Axeyu's post is valid. More succinct than mine. But, he is correct. it is easy to be a slacktivist and to feel good that we helped some random stranger in a make-believe game world. We do them no favors, however. What is more, by thinking that is the answer to the OP's post we ignore the bigger issue that was presented.

Keep you plat and gear. Sell on the plat AH and avoid the shard AH. That is the real answer to OP's question about what to do with the excess plat.

[Enoach]

I endorse this point of view.

It is presumptuous for forumites to think that OP has not already contemplated giving away plat. It is equally presumptuous to presume that OP has not already purchased stacks of consumables or made other investments.

OP is pointing to a real problem with the plat based auction house. The only response thus far that addresses the issue is the one where the response is placing saleable gear on the plat AH instead of the shard AH.

Like many others, I too have passed on gear and plat to new players. Interestingly, I seldom get a thank you. At times I will do so randomly by picking out a L1 or L2 character and mailing gear or plat. Often I get the mail returned after it has expired in their in box.

It is wrong to just assume that a new player wants or needs our hand-me-downs. More than that, it is wrong to assume that newly created characters belong to new players.

OP has pointed to a problem with the plat AH. It is not actually a problem with a surplus of plat, it is a problem with how the players would rather post the best gear on the shard AH as if shards hold more value.

And, because of the way Turbine has approached shards they do have more value. You can repair damaged gear for plat and risk permanent damage OR you can repair damaged gear for shards and there is no risk at all. You can buy some things for the guild using plat BUT the best upgrades require shards. You can buy a hireling for plat and use one at a time OR you can buy hirelings for shards and use as many as the party size allows.

The question is, do we really need to use the shards? It is almost criminal the way Turbine runs the shard AH. How many forumites would be pleased if their government took a third of their income in taxes? What if you got paid in one currency but had to purchase the only usable currency before you could go to the market?

That is what shards are. You spend a third of your profit when you sell an item. Those shards are lost to circulation. To get more the players must spend actual money -- dollars, euros, pounds, whatever the currency is for their nation.

And for what? For electrons. For something that is not real and that will never become real.

Now, I am not against Turbine making money. I pay a VIP subscription. I spend close to $200 US dollars every month on things I do not need -- on electrons -- just to change a hair style or to have a cosmetic clothing or to get a LR heartwood in order to try a different build idea. I am not against spending real money for electrons.

But, I do empathize with the OP's point -- that there is seldom good gear on the plat AH. And, like the reply about posting good stuff to the plat AH, I too have taken that approach. The problem is not with surplus plat. The problem is with those fellow players who do not post items to the plat AH.

So, Axeyu's post is valid. More succinct than mine. But, he is correct. it is easy to be a slacktivist and to feel good that we helped some random stranger in a make-believe game world. We do them no favors, however. What is more, by thinking that is the answer to the OP's post we ignore the bigger issue that was presented.

Keep you plat and gear. Sell on the plat AH and avoid the shard AH. That is the real answer to OP's question about what to do with the excess plat.

I get what you are saying, and I agree it is the system that got us here to this point.

The Shard Exchange came about for a few reasons...

1. There is a Plat cap of about 4.3 million Plat per character
2. The current AH had a limit as well as the buyer had a limit - The Seller however feels the value should be at a higher limit
3. Astral Diamonds and Shards were introduced as a currency for purchasing Guild related items - Excluding the guildless but also coming to a point where it had no value once the Guild had everything it needed.

Turbine has since added in other places Astral Shards can be used from Hirelings to Collectables and finally with an Auction House.

But here is the kicker, something we the players need to own. We are encouraging the AS AH. Now with a series of releases where gear is bound to account on acquire preventing it from being on the AH/ASAH we actually have less stuff.

To me the way to fix the problem is to fix the Plat cap. Either expand it or remove it all together.

Then what needs to happen is put in more Plat sinks so players don't just cap without having something to spend it on.

However, I am against a system of converting Plat to Astral shards. That would be the wrong way to go.

[Cantor]

I'm sure this is terrible for those opposed to the ASAH but.. When I cap I buy something stupidly high priced on the AH and put it up for shards.

[Marshal_Lannes]

This is not necessarily true. A minority of big buyers can spread their wealth to other players through purchasing on the AH, allowing a majority of net positive earners. Is this the case? I don't know. But it's quite easy to become a net positive earner, all you have to do is one daily dice roll and sell one item....

Exactly Forzah. That's why I was trying to get people to define if they were citing sources or stating their opinions. Since no sources were cited and it is clear there are various areas where AS do come into the game, it is clear people have differing opinions on the value of AS currency which certainly points me to the conclusion that there should be a plat to AS exchange mechanic.

[Baktiotha]

Let me add my voice to those opposing a plat to shard conversion mechanism.

I do not know how many forumites have actually tried to make a profit on the shard AH. I know that I have tried and it is not easy. To succeed requires knowing what players want and knowing the approximate value of the item. Except for very rare items it is a long process with typical sales prices being very low.

My personal experience leads me to believe that there are very few people actually making a profit from the shard AH.

Additionally, the drop rate on shards is extremely low. I have not receive shards for anything -- daily dice, chest pull, monster manual -- in so long that I experientially conclude that the main source of shards must be those purchased in the store.

Again, I do not begrudge Turbine the money. If Turbine doesn't make some money then the game ends.

However, we as players do have control over where we place gear for auction.

It is true that bound gear can only go to the shard AH. I expect that is by design and that it is no coincidence that more and more gear is bound if it has any real value.

I don't see a plat for shard exchange being implemented. It is in direct competition with the DDO store and that doesn't seem to make sense for Turbine.

The only workable solution is to refrain from placing non-bound loot on the shard AH. How well that works is entirely dependent on the players. I suspect that greed will overcome any sense of community action -- or, as one response has it, that people will buy from the plat AH in order to list on the shard AH.

[Chai]

Exactly Forzah. That's why I was trying to get people to define if they were citing sources or stating their opinions. Since no sources were cited and it is clear there are various areas where AS do come into the game, it is clear people have differing opinions on the value of AS currency which certainly points me to the conclusion that there should be a plat to AS exchange mechanic.

The game is the source. Do people who challenge everything posted actually play DDO? Im starting to think that people who say the forums and the game are two different entities are correct. I see more and more evidence of this every day. Its the only possible explanation for continual challenge of things that are so blatantly obvious that they should go without saying, yet consistently ends in a 30 page back and forth, which always happens over a weekend.

[Forzah]

What you are saying cannot happen for the majority in a system which removes 30-40 percent of the currency per transaction, forcing the need for new currency to enter the system regularly. To become a net positive earner those AS had to come from somewhere. The majority of players cannot be net positive earners in the p2wah. A minority of players can, with the AS earned being mostly from the majority of net negative consumers purchasing AS. If no AS was docked per transaction, then what you are saying here would be possible. Of course, if that was the case, any profits Turbine makes on the p2wah would cease at some point, as that is the entire purpose of the AS sync.

I'm not questioning that most of the astral shards come from the store. Maybe you missed that I said "Yes" in agreement to that part of your post. It is self-evident that net buyers have to buy more shards at some point if they want to keep using the auction house.

However, it is questionable whether the majority of people are net buyers. Consider the following example:

-One person buys 10,000 astral shards.
-Five persons gain some in game astral shards and post an item for 2,000 on the AH.
-The one person buys the 5 items. The five persons make 1,200 astral shards each.
-Now there are 5 net earners and 1 net buyer.

We can see that one net buyer can sustain several net earners, even in presence of a 40% cut. This shows that there can very easily be a majority of net earners. Like I said, I don't know which of the two constitutes the majority, and you don't know either.

[erethizon]

Actually I would call the money they get from selling astral shards a pittance. Do you know anyone in game that buys them? I don't. Do you know anyone who has ever used the astral shard teleporters? I don't. And all astral shards don't come into the game from the store, they come in from the Monster Manuel. I would be that this is the vast majority of astral shards now except for those players who still have a horde (and are still playing) from selling duped items on the shard exchange. Very few, if any, people are actually buying astral shards from the store.

Yes, I know people that buy shards. Yes, I know people that use the astral shard teleporters. And aren't there only 2 monster manuals that give astral shards? I think they give 4 per monster for a grand total of 80 astral shards per server if you manage to max out all 20 of those monster manual entries (which many people don't). Sure a few astral shards do come in from the monster manual, but I think the majority come from people buying them. Astral shard rewards are an account deed in the monster manual so they cannot ever be done again even when you TR or play other characters.

[vyvy3369]

My assumption is that most shards came into circulation through otto's boxes. From what I have heard not many buy shards separately but many people buy many boxes every time they're on sale.

[Forzah]

Exactly Forzah. That's why I was trying to get people to define if they were citing sources or stating their opinions. Since no sources were cited and it is clear there are various areas where AS do come into the game, it is clear people have differing opinions on the value of AS currency which certainly points me to the conclusion that there should be a plat to AS exchange mechanic.

I'm not sure how the fact that people have different opinions means that there should be a plat to AS exchange mechanic. How does that follow?

Even if there is a majority for such an exchange, Turbine should think about it first and make a business case. I'm not sure whether adding such an exchange will increase profits on the long run. Probably not, or only very marginally. It's not worth the effort, I would say.

[TitusOvid]

Deprive people of a valuable experience just to make yourself feel better, how noble.

I think meeting nice foreigners who help you out is a very valuable experience, yes.



You mean 1250 pp? Or 2500pp if he's level 2? Yeah that will deplete fast.

Those new players could simply be favor farmers who will never come back to your server. You're making a bad investment by giving them money for not playing on your server...


You recognize favor farmers mostly because they farm favor and advertise that. give them a wide berth and you will find thankful people. for example first life rogues. buy +5 tools for them from the ah (they are quiet expensive on orien). At lvl 6 f2p can storage 40k plat and it is a sign that they might stay longer.

If you want to find something to spend platinum on, it is easy to find a good solution.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I'm not sure how the fact that people have different opinions means that there should be a plat to AS exchange mechanic. How does that follow?

Even if there is a majority for such an exchange, Turbine should think about it first and make a business case. I'm not sure whether adding such an exchange will increase profits on the long run. Probably not, or only very marginally. It's not worth the effort, I would say.

I don't really care one way or another if they make a conversion to plat. I agree with the OP about plat cap though and I have many characters at plat cap and it's a pain in the rear to manage. What do you do with it/buy? That is my main reasoning for liking the idea of a plat exchange it is one less management issue I have to worry about. I don't like spending 20 minutes trying to get rid of my plat. My only points of contention on this thread are where some people make blanket statements claiming things are obvious conclusions when they are no such things, merely their opinions.

[Axeyu]

Plat to AS convertion would be fantastic. The less P2W the better.

[Axeyu]

I think meeting nice foreigners who help you out is a very valuable experience, yes.

Handing them some potions, sure. But giving a new player more plat than he knows how to spend will just accelerate his own devaluation of plat and deprive him of the experience of gathering useful plat for himself.

[Baktiotha]

If you want to find something to spend platinum on, it is easy to find a good solution.

I think you've missed the actual point of the original post. It isn't about finding ways to spend plat. It is about the paucity of items on the plat AH and the dual decisions of *bound to account* and *shard AH* that drives players to list on the shard AH anything remotely valuable.

The debate over theoretical ways for multiple players to realize net positives from the shard AH is just that, theory. Observational reality, supported by actual experience with the shard AH, is that the vast majority of players do not realize a profit from the shard AH.

Likewise, those believing most shards come from Otto's boxes have a limited viewpoint. Shards are much cheaper bought independently and, because the shard AH is the only way to access some items, sell on their own. If they were not selling the price would decrease. That is a first lesson in supply and demand.

I will agree that plat and shard AH prices on Orien are outrageous. I feel it is stupid thinking that people will pay the sort of prices asked. I often list identical items on the plat AH for much lower starting values and without a buyout. They invariably sell and almost always well below the minimum price of the other items. This shows that the actual perceived value of the item is far less than the asking prices.

OTOH, I almost always have a surplus of plat and the buy outs are seldom a problem for me. I suppose I contribute to the overpricing because if I decide I want the item I will buy it irrespective of the price. With 7 accounts (8 actually, I just rediscovered that my son had 2 accounts) I can always reallocate plat if I'm a bit short.

But, overall I think sellers vastly overvalue items and list them for far too much. Probably applies to more than just the Orien server.

[TitusOvid]

Well, actually the OP was talking about the inconvinience of spending platinum. And he is right.


What do you all do when you're swimming in plat but cannot use it for anything?

Others are right, too. But do you all seriously think that a Plat to AS conversion would be considered seriously? Not even in a parallel universe. There are actually people who spend real life money on AS. Never ever would Turbine let go of that source.

At some point Plat is just another resource you don't have to worry about anymore. count yourself lucky.

[Chai]

I'm not questioning that most of the astral shards come from the store. Maybe you missed that I said "Yes" in agreement to that part of your post. It is self-evident that net buyers have to buy more shards at some point if they want to keep using the auction house.

However, it is questionable whether the majority of people are net buyers. Consider the following example:

-One person buys 10,000 astral shards.
-Five persons gain some in game astral shards and post an item for 2,000 on the AH.
-The one person buys the 5 items. The five persons make 1,200 astral shards each.
-Now there are 5 net earners and 1 net buyer.

We can see that one net buyer can sustain several net earners, even in presence of a 40% cut. This shows that there can very easily be a majority of net earners. Like I said, I don't know which of the two constitutes the majority, and you don't know either.

Using your own example, for the majority to become net positive earners, the majority would be posting those 1200 shard items on the AH and a minority would be buying them. If the majority is ALL posting those items there aren't enough people in the minority to buy them all.

Also, using your example, the supply would be much greater than the demand, and the market value would also go down as all those people posting items would be undercutting each other to be the one who gets the sale. There would be no such thing as a big ticket item, in a situation where 5 people are posting them per 1 person buying shards to purchase them.

Thanks for the support. You just made my case for me.

[Forzah]

Using your own example, for the majority to become net positive earners, the majority would be posting those 1200 shard items on the AH and a minority would be buying them. If the majority is ALL posting those items there aren't enough people in the minority to buy them all.

1) For clarity, in the example "an item" does not mean that every person sells the same item. They sell arbitrary items.
2) One person can buy multiple of these items, so it is possible that a minority buys everything.
3) You forget to take into account that net earners can also buy items. The persons that gained 1200 shards can spend most of them and still be a net earner (they still have more than the almost nothing they started with).
4) If net earners spend their earnings, they can even make other people become net earners. It can have a cascading effect.
5) For net earners to be in the majority the only requirement is that there are more net earners than net buyers.
6) Net positive earner is a pleonasm.



Also, using your example, the supply would be much greater than the demand, and the market value would also go down as all those people posting items would be undercutting each other to be the one who gets the sale. There would be no such thing as a big ticket item, in a situation where 5 people are posting them per 1 person buying shards to purchase them.

7) As pointed out in 3), net earners can now start demanding too, so the supply greater than demand theory does necessary not hold.
8) They are example numbers. The price and undercutting is not relevant, because as long as you sell an item and gain more than you started with, you become a net earner (even if the net earnings are just 1 shard).
9) Using a simple economics argument, your undercutting theory can also explain why there are more net earners in a market with more supply than demand. The lower the prices get, the more items the net buyers can obtain and thus the more people can become a net earner (though they will earn less per person).

The only thing that we can conclude is that we cannot conclude which constitutes the majority. It requires empirical research; argumentation alone is not enough.

[ThreeEyedBob]

Turbine should make a player casino similar to the ones in Asheron's Call. Use plat to buy gambling tokens. Have several "levels" of gambling tokens that are increasingly expensive. Then have NPCs for the different gambling devices. Trade-in menus like for cookies etc works. Then you get a random "win" item. Could be anything as long as its a bit useful. For example the difficult to find shards? (Sword of Shadow, Spellpower ring, LoD item shards etc). There are many things that could be done here.

You dont really need to make a big thing out of it either? How about just using the Gambling Den layout from the low level quest, spice it up a bit with brighter lights, new npcs etc. A legit Stormreach gambling den :-) OR you can have a Forgotten Realms gambling den. Whatever works. Could even have both and slightly different where the FR one needs a pass to enter (flag through a quest or something similar).

A casino type mechanic would solve the plat problem. And you could enter some exiting rewards. And solve some issues the playerbase has with getting some difficult to find shards/seals/scrolls/items.

[Gremmlynn]

So no source, this is your opinion. Just wanted that clarified for purposes of the discussion. While I realize my experience is anecdotal data I just don't know anyone who actually buys shards to use on the AH and therefore, my conclusion that they might as well offer a plat to AS exchange is valid. Yes, there are many characters that are max plat cap, but that's a one time thing. It is not all that easy to go from 0 plat to 4.293 million plat.In my personal experience, it's as hard as getting to level 20 and then the plat starts rolling in just from vendoring junk.

[Gremmlynn]

Let me add my voice to those opposing a plat to shard conversion mechanism.

I do not know how many forumites have actually tried to make a profit on the shard AH. I know that I have tried and it is not easy. To succeed requires knowing what players want and knowing the approximate value of the item. Except for very rare items it is a long process with typical sales prices being very low.

My personal experience leads me to believe that there are very few people actually making a profit from the shard AH.

Additionally, the drop rate on shards is extremely low. I have not receive shards for anything -- daily dice, chest pull, monster manual -- in so long that I experientially conclude that the main source of shards must be those purchased in the store.

Again, I do not begrudge Turbine the money. If Turbine doesn't make some money then the game ends.

However, we as players do have control over where we place gear for auction.

It is true that bound gear can only go to the shard AH. I expect that is by design and that it is no coincidence that more and more gear is bound if it has any real value.

I don't see a plat for shard exchange being implemented. It is in direct competition with the DDO store and that doesn't seem to make sense for Turbine.

The only workable solution is to refrain from placing non-bound loot on the shard AH. How well that works is entirely dependent on the players. I suspect that greed will overcome any sense of community action -- or, as one response has it, that people will buy from the plat AH in order to list on the shard AH.The problem with that solution is that it means, basically, giving stuff away as platinum has no real value for those in a position to do it. I really don't see what it fixes.

[Gremmlynn]

I think you've missed the actual point of the original post. It isn't about finding ways to spend plat. It is about the paucity of items on the plat AH and the dual decisions of *bound to account* and *shard AH* that drives players to list on the shard AH anything remotely valuable.

The debate over theoretical ways for multiple players to realize net positives from the shard AH is just that, theory. Observational reality, supported by actual experience with the shard AH, is that the vast majority of players do not realize a profit from the shard AH.

Likewise, those believing most shards come from Otto's boxes have a limited viewpoint. Shards are much cheaper bought independently and, because the shard AH is the only way to access some items, sell on their own. If they were not selling the price would decrease. That is a first lesson in supply and demand.

I will agree that plat and shard AH prices on Orien are outrageous. I feel it is stupid thinking that people will pay the sort of prices asked. I often list identical items on the plat AH for much lower starting values and without a buyout. They invariably sell and almost always well below the minimum price of the other items. This shows that the actual perceived value of the item is far less than the asking prices.

OTOH, I almost always have a surplus of plat and the buy outs are seldom a problem for me. I suppose I contribute to the overpricing because if I decide I want the item I will buy it irrespective of the price. With 7 accounts (8 actually, I just rediscovered that my son had 2 accounts) I can always reallocate plat if I'm a bit short.

But, overall I think sellers vastly overvalue items and list them for far too much. Probably applies to more than just the Orien server.It's really a matter of how much composition there is. If nobody else is selling a particular item, then fishing for a buyer willing to "overpay" is the most profitable way to go. It's simple supply and demand. With a limited supply, only those willing and able to "overpay" are going to get their demand met.

[Gremmlynn]

Using your own example, for the majority to become net positive earners, the majority would be posting those 1200 shard items on the AH and a minority would be buying them. If the majority is ALL posting those items there aren't enough people in the minority to buy them all.

Also, using your example, the supply would be much greater than the demand, and the market value would also go down as all those people posting items would be undercutting each other to be the one who gets the sale. There would be no such thing as a big ticket item, in a situation where 5 people are posting them per 1 person buying shards to purchase them.

Thanks for the support. You just made my case for me.Depends on the items. Consumable items easily allow it and just the vast number of items in the game, means not every seller is selling the same item. If those 5 sellers, in the example, were selling 5 different items, one buyer could easily be buying them all.

[xberto]

DDO should allow you to convert max to plat to an X amount of astral shards. It really is such an easy solution I can't believe it takes me to tell them this.

I agree with this. I posted the idea in the suggestion forum some time ago. Im sure it's been brought before. I don't know what the exchange rate should be.

[Assassination]

I think they prefer to trade shards for dollars.

[Aelonwy]

I was against shards being added to the game. I still don't like them. I have only one character that is even close to max plat, but at the prices current and usual per the AH she can purchase two named items on the AH and be under 2 mil easily. However, if I focus my casual playtime to play in epics for a week (average 2-3 hrs a day but not every day) she's back up there approaching max plat again. If I can do that with my casual playtime it cannot be that difficult IMHO to max plat and keep doing so. Now I do sell items to vendors on my hagglebard and not everyone has the inclination or character slot to make one, but between her and my actual playing characters (in epics) I get between 1 and 1.5 mil plat in a given week of epic play give or take mostly depending on whether the character getting loot is fresh to epics or trying to cap and how much questing versus wilderness xp I'm getting. I'm sure there are others who can acquire plat even faster.

I don't think Turbine would want to convert what amounts to a week of play for even one astral shard. Now I'm not saying they absolutely shouldn't, I'm saying I think its too easy for some of us to earn plat through regular play for them to want or allow plat to purchase astral shards.

I still don't like astral shards. But I accept that they earn Turbine money and they are here to stay. It won't solve the plat capped issue, not in the long run, but I think it would be a benefit to newer players, and returning players that are unfamiliar to astral shards if they allowed a one time conversion per account per server, or one purchase per character of plat to astral shards like the 5 TP cake on Korthos. But it would almost certainly be easier for them to implement it as a 5 TP one time purchase of a shard, or whatever price point they like.

What we should be thinking of are items we can't normally trade between ourselves for which we would be willing to part with substantial amounts of plat. Personally, things I would spend every last plat piece on a character for that cannot be traded (except some in chest) would include seals, shards, & commendations of heroism. I would also dearly love to buy sigil pieces (maybe not for 4.2 mil but substantial) because despite doing necro 4 every life, mostly duo-ed but some with my static group I have yet to have any alt complete 1 dang sigil, neither has my hubby, some pieces I have 8 of on one character and zero of others - its frustrating. Scroll/Seal/Shard is an all but abandoned system, making it into a plat sink could be beneficial. I know comms of heroism are considered raid items and some of you hold those sacred but if they aren't going to add them to more raids (my first choice) they need to make them more available somehow and I think giving up 4.2 mil plat for one would be good over all for a game with too few plat sinks. They are after all still BTC. Although, something like that may cause a sudden mass purchase of the platinum vault on a lot of accounts.

TL;DR Its too easy to earn plat for continuous plat to astral shard conversion. Last paragraph has some other ideas that will almost certainly be rejected by those who hold digital pixels sacred instead of the time spent adventuring and laughing with friends but *shrug* to each their own.

[Forzah]

I think they prefer to trade shards for dollars.

That would mean the end of Turbine :D

[Pnumbra]

deprive people of a valuable experience just to make yourself feel better, how noble.

yes!

[Marshal_Lannes]

Here is a real game world example. I just had a 623K plat bid on a tome. I got out bid for it. Well now I have 623K plat in my mailbox. Unfortunately since the time when I placed the bid a couple days ago my character is back up to 4.1 million plat, so I can't even withdraw my mailbox money. I then had to go to the AH and spend 600K plat. I spent a good 25 mins blowing plat on items just so I could pick up more plat and push myself right up to the plat cap so tomorrow I will have to spend 20 more mins spending plat! Aggghhhh.....

Oh and giving it away really isn't an option either. I have tried to give away plat in Korthos or the Harbor and people look at you like you're trying to scam them! Give us something new to spend plat on! Player housing for instance....hmmmm. Now where would the best real estate be? In the foothills of the Stormhorns or the King's Forest?

[Enoach]

To me all signs point to...


Raise the Plat Cap
Give players more Plat sinks


the 4.3 million XP cap is simply too low.

[Baktiotha]

I am disappointed that there is no player housing. Not sure what I'd do if I had it. It isn't like my character actually eats, sleeps, uses the toilet, has sexual relationships, runs a counterfeit astral shard operation, has a meth lab....

Hmm, I have an idea. What if we cut the amount of plat and vendor trash prices by 80%. Then people would be plat poor and the cap would be just fine.

OK, maybe that wouldn't work. Let's raise the cap instead. And add player housing. And massage parlors. And bars where when I drink I actually get drunk. And casinos. We need more casinos. (There is one in game, maybe they just need to advertise more.)

I think I'll set up a deal with the courier's guild when I get my housing. I'll call it Match.com and for a fee I'll set up any character with their most likely life partner, or not. Oh, I know, a university selling land.... :D

[Assassination]

Plat for Commendations of Heroism?

We'd like to reward you for being a millionaire.... trade 2 million plat for a comm of hero, because you're such a fine saver of coins....

Raising the plat cap is a good idea as well. Let's take it to 100 millions! Now you are a "player"!!!