What Goes Up EE

[mobrien316]

I join a group doing What Goes Up on EE. There are four people in the group, including me. Sticking together though the first part of the quest, we did fine. We weren’t destroying the opposition, but we were doing well supporting each other and moving along without undue delay. When we got out the last part on the glacier, the leader says “Split up and everyone take a pillar. It will go a lot faster that way.”
I suggested it would go faster if we stick together and two people beat down a pillar while the other two people deal with the trash, but he disagreed. So we split up and the trash spawns and the leader is the first to go down. I ran over to join up with one of the other characters and he died while I was enroute. The third guy died and then I died a few moments later.

This kind of thing seems to happen regularly. Do people not get that splitting up in heroic quests so you complete faster doesn’t necessary mean you can split up in the same epic quests? Do people not assess how the group is doing before deciding to split everyone up? I was taking note of how everyone was doing during the first part of the quest, and I thought we were going to complete without any problems. Unless some jackwagon decides we should all split up.

Of course, maybe when he meant it would be faster, he really meant that a thirty second wipe gets us done much quicker than if actually took the time to complete.

[Kebtid]

Due to overwhelming power we gained since the release of what goes up that quest is quite trivial at this time so a moderately skilled player should expect that anyone would be capable to handle a pillar.
It is faster, way faster if you have people who are capable to split for pillars + kill trash at the same time.
Compared to when wgu came out, we gained levels, epic freebies, many trees that became op, more past lifes, more tomes, better gear from new packs that is severely overpowered for that content range and massive damage mitigation gear, so it is quite expected that people should be able to handle it.
To be specific, we now with new gear have more power underlevel in wgu then fully geared at 28 back when the quest came out so i personally would not blame the leader for suggesting to split up but more for his incapability to measure the overall clear time of trash in the group, tho imho anyone should be capable to solo that quest for bb or underlevel at this point.

[mobrien316]

Due to overwhelming power we gained since the release of what goes up that quest is quite trivial at this time so a moderately skilled player should expect that anyone would be capable to handle a pillar.
It is faster, way faster if you have people who are capable to split for pillars + kill trash at the same time.
Compared to when wgu came out, we gained levels, epic freebies, many trees that became op, more past lifes, more tomes, better gear from new packs that is severely overpowered for that content range and massive damage mitigation gear, so it is quite expected that people should be able to handle it.
To be specific, we now with new gear have more power underlevel in wgu then fully geared at 28 back when the quest came out so i personally would not blame the leader for suggesting to split up but more for his incapability to measure the overall clear time of trash in the group, tho imho anyone should be capable to solo that quest for bb or underlevel at this point.

You must play with different people than I do. I certainly know people who can solo it on EE, but I definitely cannot say that everyone should be able to do so.

The leader in the group I mentioned should have realized he was not able to solo it; he was actually the first one who was overwhelmed and killed. My issue is that we were already most of the way through the quest by that point, and everyone should have been able to see that we were moving along as a group; it wasn't one guy running ahead and killing everything.

While there are certainly groups where the leader can say "everyone split up and we'll be done in thirty seconds", I think most reasonable people recognize that doesn't apply to all groups.

[Thalone]

http://img.memecdn.com/Confidence_c_91856.jpg

[Chai]

No they don't. They risk party wipes based on the almighty "one more minute in this shroud is another minute I could have spent in the next shroud" mentality. Sometimes the end result is having spent that time and not getting the award for having done so.

[Qhualor]

It's one of the reasons why I hardly join a Wiz King group above EN. It's real easy to get orange/red alert, constant harried and most I've been in result in 1 or more players having to backtrack to help with a tower or raise. Usually it defeats the purpose of "solo a tower".

It's one thing if you are in a group with players that you already know and able to split up, but often times I see more problems with the zerg mentality than there should be. This is the nature of the game and has been for a long while. This is what was voiced loudly over the years and continue to do so. It's one of the biggest reasons I believe does more damage to the game overall than good.

[Enoach]

Lets think about the decision being made here on the split up (reminds me a lot of B horror films where you can pick who is next simply because they split up) hehehe :)

On the glacier the tower does have a lot of HP, not bringing something specialized in killing constructs puts you behind as a physical damager.

Next the spawning of trash. While more and more people squeeze out that additional DPS they tend to give up abilities that would give them better survival or even better Crowd control. If you are dealing with mobs you can one shot those abilities are not needed, however, when you deal with mobs that can take a few extra hits to do this, plus have a rather powerful stun ability that wears you down in the process, it my be better to go with the buddy system.

In the OPS case, they may have been better off two by two, where one could peal off to resolve trash issues and they would have been in a better place instead of running the full map and agroing the entire glacerier

[Jetrule]

I am sure the leader was in groups where his plan worked flawlessly before. He may have soloed wgu on ee with that character before. But this time some one forgot to buff freedom and rolled a unfortunate save, and/or someone or two bad match ups in the way of champions resistances and buffs, and it was red alert ... result the wipe. Getting in a rush and forgetting vital buffs and equipment swaps is a common occurrence in people who get used to bum rushing quests on lower difficulty. When running in pugs where you arent fully knowledgeable about the other characters in party, playing it safe is usually the best option.

[beta1]

Another issue is some people measure their enjoyment in XP/minute and splitting the party is a way to increase this (at least sometimes).

[Algreg]

the guy has probably been dragged through the quest by better players and, imagining he is on their level, thinks that is the way it is done, yet it is above his level of competence.

[lifestaker]

http://img.memecdn.com/split-up-they-said_o_604880.webp

[nokowi]

This is one of the reasons why non dps skills like stealth matter.
I can always rez the rest of the group if I go into stealth.
It's too bad class tiers are based solely on DPS on kobolds.

[Algreg]

Another issue is some people measure their enjoyment in XP/minute and splitting the party is a way to increase this (at least sometimes).

only an issue if you don´t succeed in doing so.

[krimsonrane]

People bite off moar than they can chew all the time. It's just a fact of life. What you think you can do and what you really are capable of are not always in sync.

[mobrien316]

I just always look at it as it makes the most sense to see how your group is doing. If one guy runs into the first room and kills everything before the other three guys get there 10 seconds later, and in the next room a different guy does the same thing, and so on, you can split up that group. If the group is moving together, fighting together, and so on, and you are moving along without tremendous difficulty but no one is really dominating, it makes sense to me to keep the group together.

I have characters that can solo that quest on EE and some that definitely can't. I would guess most people are like that. It doesn't seem that hard to determine during the first part of the quest if you can split everyone up on the last part of the quest.

It's always a bit irritating when you have someone say "Split up on this one" and I'm thinking, "You want that guy, who died fourteen times in the last quest and whose HP total is about one-quarter on anyone else's, to split up? What do you think is going to happen?" And then the same guy will get mad when the guy dies.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Next the spawning of trash. While more and more people squeeze out that additional DPS they tend to give up abilities that would give them better survival or even better Crowd control. If you are dealing with mobs you can one shot those abilities are not needed, however, when you deal with mobs that can take a few extra hits to do this, plus have a rather powerful stun ability that wears you down in the process, it my be better to go with the buddy system.

In the OPS case, they may have been better off two by two, where one could peal off to resolve trash issues and they would have been in a better place instead of running the full map and agroing the entire glacerier

I agree, but can we really fault players for trying to go for an 11/10 on the DPS scale when the only thing the game calculates is DPS? People look at kill counts and want to be near the top of them. I read many posts on here about how X is better than Y because it gives a fraction more DPS. You have a whole group of people who will tell you the US Destiny is garbage and Vanguards and S&B builds are for 'flavor' only. There was a whole thread a couple weeks ago where some were claiming glass cannon Sorcs were better DPS than Warlocks completely discounting the survivable nature of Warlocks. If you only track one statistic you are going to get people fixating on that one statistic.

To the OP, no doubt the party leader was in error, but you didn't have to listen to him either, especially since you clearly had misgivings going into this strategy. You could have went to a pillar with another of the PCs. The two of you likely would have been able to stay alive and raise the two dead people and you could have regrouped and stuck together pillar by pillar.

[Faltout]

Besides, splitting up for pillars is not even a valid tactic. The pillars are not far from each other and have a good amount of HP. You just assign a trash kiter or killer and have the rest of the group focus on one pillar at a time. It goes much faster with all the vulnerabilities, buffs and debuffs and is 100% safe as long as the trash kiter does not die or does not kill the whole trash wave (thus spawning the next one).