LGS is garbage

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

If you are a melee.

Just crafted my first LGS tier 3 temp hp thing.

1. The wep damage is a joke;

2. no slots;

3. tier3 afirmation temp hp is a waste os ingredients, 1000hp every 1 min is BS. Most mobs hit for twice that damage.

turbine really did a great job ruining melees. Congratulations.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Yeah it's not really worth the grind for a melee. I just stick with thunderforged for my melees.

[Taimasan]

If you are a melee.

Just crafted my first LGS tier 3 temp hp thing.

1. The wep damage is a joke;

2. no slots;

3. tier3 afirmation temp hp is a waste os ingredients, 1000hp every 1 min is BS. Most mobs hit for twice that damage.

turbine really did a great job ruining melees. Congratulations.



My thoughts exactly was about to do this or a min 2 shuriken then realized it was not worth the waste of mats. Just going to save my mats for monk pass and hope the monk pass comes with LGS wraps.

[JOTMON]

If you are a melee.

Just crafted my first LGS tier 3 temp hp thing.

1. The wep damage is a joke;

2. no slots;

3. tier3 afirmation temp hp is a waste os ingredients, 1000hp every 1 min is BS. Most mobs hit for twice that damage.

turbine really did a great job ruining melees. Congratulations.


welcome to the growing mass of the disgruntled...

LGS looked interesting in the advertisements.. the reality after the crafting is the disappointment..

[Phil7]

So far I found out that Vacuum and Ice are good for dps builds.
a Healing Amplification LGS weapon with a Shield for tanks

[nokowi]

All they had to do was repeat an epic version of heroic GS. LGS earned a 1 out of 10 on my end of year 2015 PC review.

10-20k 3% proc, AWESOME when it strikes 3x in a row!



10-60 points of light damage
200 HP lighting trap on the ground
Clickies that cost mega ingredients and are no better than a cookie or random loot clicky.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

[Thrudh]

Do the weapons count for the "set bonus"?

Does one get the set bonus with 2 weapons and 1 wearable? Or do you have to have 3 wearables?

[nokowi]

Do the weapons count for the "set bonus"?

Does one get the set bonus with 2 weapons and 1 wearable? Or do you have to have 3 wearables?

No they don't. You have to chose multiple items (that likely have no effects you want), just for the set bonus. This results in little customization. Once you have your set you are done.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

All they had to do was repeat an epic version of heroic GS. LGS earned a 1 out of 10 on my end of year 2015 PC review.

10-20k 3% proc, AWESOME when it strikes 3x in a row!



10-60 points of light damage
200 HP lighting trap on the ground
Clickies that cost mega ingredients and are no better than a cookie or random loot clicky.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

Yep. I think this is what most people wanted, an epic power version of heroic GS. A legendary lit2, etc.

[JOTMON]

Yep. I think this is what most people wanted, an epic power version of heroic GS. A legendary lit2, etc.

Two handers get screwed (ongoing screwover to any two handers including staff users) since they get singular effects when really they should have had twice the options and cost twice as much as a single hander.
~two handed melee's cant select stats and damage effects .. they have to choose between them.. single handers can split between the two.. casters win overall because they don't melee and benefit from both single handers..

I was looking for smart evolution..
Smarter gear sets to build the bonusses we want, not build things we don't want to get set bonuses.. its supposed to be the customizable flexible gear to fill the voids on my endgame gear.
No augment slots.. LGS isn't good enough on its own to work without augments.
No handwraps.. so no monk love... yet... explained away as something to be dealt with in a future monk pass..
No shields.. just cause.. too lazy to include this.. or don't care about those that want to build defensive offhand choices..
No Orbs.. same reason as shields I would guess..
Clickies.. just [redacted for language]... clickies are all subpar for the level they are supposed to represent.. they were supposed to be 'Legendary' clickies.. they failed....

[nokowi]

Yep. I think this is what most people wanted, an epic power version of heroic GS. A legendary lit2, etc.

So simple and obvious... Amazing that they could screw up the most beloved raid in the game.

[Ghwyn]

The five piece set for melee is awesome and Legendary Shroud is fun. If you run it often, you will have plenty of mats. If you don't like them, don't use them. Pass the mats to others if you want.

[Vanhooger]

I do agree with you guys that LGS feel underwhelming for "Legendary". But I do get that dev after 10 years have so small of a budget that they did the best they could within they're resource/time.
If you see the trend of each update, they give us less content compared to some years ago, and to be honest I'm surprised there is still a team crafting new content. I am not even sure why this game still alive. Well I hope it still has long life, cos I love DDO but I try to be realistic at this point.

[Pnumbra]

OP, I feel your pain.

Not only are the weapons lack-luster, but constantly needing to do the raid just to access the required alters is silly. On the other hand, the short swords do look awesome...just sayin'

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

Oh the clikies, i was checking it and most of them are useless and need like 4-5 of each large ings to craft.


ROFL way to troll turbine.

[nokowi]

But I do get that dev after 10 years have so small of a budget that they did the best they could within they're resource/time.


No they didn't. A damage proc that is noticeable during game play takes no more coding. The coding already existed in heroic GS, in fact.

I accept that dev's have limitations. I don't excuse them for what the choose within those limitations, or for not understanding the completely obvious things.

[nokowi]

Oh the clikies, i was checking it and most of them are useless and need like 4-5 of each large ings to craft.


ROFL way to troll turbine.

They knew this was a failure (2015 PC discussions) but went ahead with them anyway. They would likely claim it was a resource decision, but it is probably because they already had the clicky coding implemented before we told them it was a failure. (PC input was not used to aid in their design of LGS).

I argued for the set bonuses to come through the clicky slot (placing an augment here). This would allow

1. much more customization by picking effects you want
2. much longer use of shroud raid (you can grab useful effects while you work on the more costly set bonuses).
3. this would also allow you to make several versions of a set. (more replayability)

[Thrudh]

The five piece set for melee is awesome and Legendary Shroud is fun. If you run it often, you will have plenty of mats. If you don't like them, don't use them. Pass the mats to others if you want.

The set bonuses are indeed nice, but what do you gain/lose from equipping 5 Shroud items? Other than one skill-based bonus item, what else do you use?

[Atremus]

the lack of dual shard effects on items was all it took for me to give up on the entire LGS system.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

Why we can't craft stats on equips?


Seriously, theres no way to drop equips for lgs stuff if we can't craft stats.

Those guys have no clue about this game at all.

Why they don't listen the pc folks if thats the purpose of it?

[BigErkyKid]

No they didn't. A damage proc that is noticeable during game play takes no more coding. The coding already existed in heroic GS, in fact.

I accept that dev's have limitations. I don't excuse them for what the choose within those limitations, or for not understanding the completely obvious things.

This. I feel that the devs have some goals per update which they try to meet. Apparently nominally meeting those goals is more important than how they are met.

So really they cannot give enough thought to stuff. They had to add bonus to LGS, which couldn't make it to release. Then the bonus effect was completely bugged and broken. Then they fixed it a bit.

They know that what they are producing is not good, they just don't seem to have time for more. 5 minutes of thought must have gone to LGS, I cannot explain it otherwise. No slots, really? No freaking slots? Just ready for the new augment pass, right? Right devs? how is the new augment pass going to square with weapons that are supposed to be end game and HAVE NO FREAKING SLOTS!

The new quests were absolutely broken on release (U31). Memoirs is a slap in the face: make your own story, except that you don't, there is a single path. The mobs where not even moving on release...what do I say, the quest could not be completed on release! Good intentions is a huge bag of pain on a melee toon, and has only construct after construct. The time invested in freaking skins could have gone into something that I care about (hint: I don't give a darn about flying paintings), used golems or war forged and call it a day! Instead give me a quest that is interesting.

In any case, they have openly admitted this is the issue. They have 3-4 months to develop whatever is in the schedule, which must be met at all costs. They simply release whatever they have at the time it must be sent to lama. At the same time, they charge the same for the game. So if as they claim there are no fewer players than 1-2 years ago, why has been the budget cut from then? Why do I pay the same for my VIP (as far as I can tell) and get less for my buck?

Release less content, do it well. Shroud, tempest, hound, those were meant to be raids to play for years and they didn't last an update. Less is more sometimes. Whomever is leading this team, stop running the foot developers to death. Quality takes some time and broken updates don't please the player base. Give them a freaking break and do your job well leading the development of the game.

[Thrudh]

The new quests were absolutely broken on release (U31). Memoirs is a slap in the face: make your own story, except that you don't, there is a single path. The mobs where not even moving on release...what do I say, the quest could not be completed on release! Good intentions is a huge bag of pain on a melee toon, and has only construct after construct. The time invested in freaking skins could have gone into something that I care about (hint: I don't give a darn about flying paintings), used golems or war forged and call it a day! Instead give me a quest that is interesting.

I agree Memoirs is a complete **** quest with 1990 graphics (That "forest" you have to go through, with painted trees on walls?)

Nothing wrong with Good intentions. It IS harder and longer because constructs don't crit like other monsters, but that's not a real problem. It's still an interesting and good quest. You can sneak or invisible through some of it as well, if you just can't stand the fights.

Search and Rescue is awesome.

So out of 3 new quests, 1 terrible, 1 decent, 1 awesome.... Not a terrible track record...


Release less content, do it well. Shroud, tempest, hound, those were meant to be raids to play for years and they didn't last an update. Less is more sometimes. Whomever is leading this team, stop running the foot developers to death. Quality takes some time and broken updates don't please the player base. Give them a freaking break and do your job well leading the development of the game.

I like the new Shroud raid... the loot is just terrible though. I'm working on getting my CHA skills item (for perform on my swashbuckler), a caster stat stick for my DC wizard, and that's about all I see that is worth the work.

[Tilomere]

A 50 Con ES warlock gets 20 HP/Sec from Shining Through, which is widely considered overpowered.

17 HP/Sec from Affirmation seems very close to that amount, and by extension is very close to being over powered as well. As a free proc that takes no activation mana cost or time, it is better than Shining Through, which is a TIER 5!

[Atremus]

Freezing Ice: a target is encased and immobilized....

But no helpless damage boost to make it worth crafting.

[axel15810]

I wish the devs would consider revamping the LGS stuff for melees. I was so disappointed with that update. Literally not 1 thing I wanted for my main, who is a melee, in any of the 3 Legendary raids. So that content has no incentive for me to run it, sadly. I get they intended to give casters more because at the time melees were ahead in terms of power. But they needed to give melees some stuff worth grinding for regardless, even if it was less powerful in comparison to what casters were getting. Just so we had something to do.

[GregorianPL]

yea legendary green steel weapons are big fail, and also its not worth to do more equipment than 2 items for good melee player i just benefit from positive/opposition/material item and negative/opposition/material item for 18 % of bonus hp i wanted even to made third item with hp/hp/hp but it break down my 18 % hp bonus so this is actually a ********. its better to wear heroic green steel for hp than epic one...

[BigErkyKid]

I agree Memoirs is a complete **** quest with 1990 graphics (That "forest" you have to go through, with painted trees on walls?)

Nothing wrong with Good intentions. It IS harder and longer because constructs don't crit like other monsters, but that's not a real problem. It's still an interesting and good quest. You can sneak or invisible through some of it as well, if you just can't stand the fights.

Search and Rescue is awesome.

So out of 3 new quests, 1 terrible, 1 decent, 1 awesome.... Not a terrible track record...



I like the new Shroud raid... the loot is just terrible though. I'm working on getting my CHA skills item (for perform on my swashbuckler), a caster stat stick for my DC wizard, and that's about all I see that is worth the work.

Good intentions is only hard on melee due to the fortification, AC and PRR (they seem to have some sort of PRR going). But I suffer no more, they crumble to dust and I finish the quest up to the end fight in LE in less than 10 mins on my flavor melee warlock. There is literally no interesting mechanic / encounter in good intentions, the only thing different is the skins and you laugh at them a couple times and get over it. The optionals DO NOT drop named apparently, making it a huge fail of opt (for 10K beating on a huge HPs bag? No thanks!).

Memoirs is terrible, no need to waste time on that.

Search and rescue is alright. It should be the standard quest level of quality for my taste. Personally I do not find it amazing, but it is fine.


The raids are a fail, though. Completed on LE even after the huge melee damage boost. I attend PUGs that complete LE tempest (granted the easiest) and LE hound is a matter of bragging rights for who gets it done faster among guilds. They are identical to the heroic versions and don't pose sufficient challenge.

LE shround has the super fun mechanic of a million HPs high fort portal. No thanks. The raid is almost identical to its heroic version and the loot is nowhere near heroic GS. It is absolutely terrible, lacks imagination and OMPH, it is not very customizable. It has been beaten SOLO on LN, and people can short man LE even nowadays. Heroic shroud was NOT trivialized so quickly.


I don't count this current "end game" iteration as a win, at all. Try harder.

[Chauncey1]

I have a tier 2 LGS khopesh on my sword & board fighter. It kicks much backside. And my AA has an LGS longbow that is tier 3 I think and it hits pretty friggin hard.

I can't wait to see what happens when I get them completed.

And everyone I run with on a regular basis has, or is either working on LGS weapons and/or sets. And they love the LGS stuff.

[nokowi]

I have a tier 2 LGS khopesh on my sword & board fighter. It kicks much backside. And my AA has an LGS longbow that is tier 3 I think and it hits pretty friggin hard.

I can't wait to see what happens when I get them completed.

And everyone I run with on a regular basis has, or is either working on LGS weapons and/or sets. And they love the LGS stuff.

Great to hear! Enjoy the journey!

[Blastyswa]

Yep. I think this is what most people wanted, an epic power version of heroic GS. A legendary lit2, etc.

I personally was hoping that EGS really would just be heroic GS with more stats and better clickies. For example, an Epic Elemental Energy item that gave something like +100 HP instead of +45 so that I could stop wearing a level 11 item at level 30. I think that the developers just tried way too hard to make a new shiny crafting system instead of taking the easy path many people were hoping for and just adding more stats and bigger effects.

[Chauncey1]

Great to hear! Enjoy the journey!

And besides, running legendary shroud is really fun.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

This resource in the game is something I don't even bother with. The game we have now enables you to make level 30 without it, and I advise against any form of material grind if it takes away from TR/eR progression. Frankly, these items are about as useful as the Tricks developed for the many different Companions -- makes you wonder who allowed so many Developer Manhours to be wasted over the years...

[kmoustakas]

I think they realised it was a failure early on that's why they pumped the xp so much, hoping it becomes the new von5.

[Eth]

I think they realised it was a failure early on that's why they pumped the xp so much, hoping it becomes the new von5.

Yes, Legendary shroud is the highest base XP quest/raid in the game. Twice as much as VoN5 actually.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

Yes, Legendary shroud is the highest base XP quest/raid in the game. Twice as much as VoN5 actually.

They could put it in the load screen "Great xp and cr@p items, enjoy"

[Tilomere]

Just crafted my first LGS tier 3 temp hp thing.

3. tier3 afirmation temp hp is a waste os ingredients, 1000hp every 1 min is BS. Most mobs hit for twice that damage.



Oh, I remember the OP now.

I laid out exactly how insignificant both shining through and LGS Affirmation (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475444-Fixing-enlightened-spirit?p=5827465&viewfull=1#post5827465) was and he quoted me and laughed (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475444-Fixing-enlightened-spirit?p=5827519&viewfull=1#post5827519).


roflmao

When you are right, you are right LagMonsterrrrrr. In this case you are soo right! It is hilarious. I can't stop laughing.

[Coyopa]

Freezing Ice: a target is encased and immobilized....

But no helpless damage boost to make it worth crafting.

Really? Because I havre Freezing Ice on my epic Frozen Tunic and I get helpless damage when they're frozen.

EDIT: I'm genuinely asking because I haven't made any LGS (and have no plans to do so).

[Chai]

Oh, I remember the OP now.

I laid out exactly how insignificant both shining through and LGS Affirmation (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475444-Fixing-enlightened-spirit?p=5827465&viewfull=1#post5827465) was and he quoted me and laughed (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475444-Fixing-enlightened-spirit?p=5827519&viewfull=1#post5827519).

Many of the same types of abilities which are complained about as OP when it fits into the "nerf this class because it ruins my fun" agenda are dismissed as useless when pointed out later in some other context.

[Atremus]

Really? Because I havre Freezing Ice on my epic Frozen Tunic and I get helpless damage when they're frozen.

EDIT: I'm genuinely asking because I haven't made any LGS (and have no plans to do so).

Yup. It was the first "special effect" I built on my FvS when LGS first showed up. I was thinking how awesome I could make Divine Wrath. I made the mistake of assuming the code was pulled from the Frozen Tunic and thus gave a bit of bonus damage through helpless. You know because consistency.... I bug reported it early on but we know how that goes. Once something is released, Turbine almost never goes back to make adjustments.


I can get you a screen shot the next time I play.

[nokowi]

Many of the same types of abilities which are complained about as OP when it fits into the "nerf this class because it ruins my fun" agenda are dismissed as useless when pointed out later in some other context.

With the exception of Thunderforged, players have always complained about new weapons. Unless the new gear is 50% better than the old gear, players will complain regardless of the quality of the new gear.

Yes players are dismissing some of the effective LGS gear. That doesn't change the fact that the weapons generally don't give a noticable proc. Players want an exciting damage spike, not continual lower-grade damage. The fact that we had a successful heroic model, and that dev's couldn't figure this out, shows that they put little thought or effort into the LGS items. The fact that the ignored the Players Council also shows how little they valued the most loved raid in the game.



I don't care how little resources they had, it would have been trivial to do much better. What they produced was low quality, even if you find some things you like about it. They didn't include things players want (noticeable proc, customization of gear , augment slot, 4 effects on two handed weapon), and they didn't design any of the raids for replayability. Once you get the one armor you want out of HoX or TS, you are done. All they needed was:

1. better LGS items (noticeable damage spike proc, set bonus through augment slot, allowing you to choose the tier 1-3 effects you actually want)
2. replayability (turn in 10 smalls for a medium, 10 mediums for a large). Chance of large ingredient on LE TS or HoX.
3. Two handed weapons are a double shard (more ingredients, but 4 effects)
4. normal augment slot (possibly an additional one for THF)

These are so simple and obvious if you design your content for replayability and for what players want. LGS didn't need to be OP to do these things.

The augment slots help casters more than melee, which was one of the goals of the LGS pass.

[Phil7]

A 50 Con ES warlock gets 20 HP/Sec from Shining Through, which is widely considered overpowered.

17 HP/Sec from Affirmation seems very close to that amount, and by extension is very close to being over powered as well. As a free proc that takes no activation mana cost or time, it is better than Shining Through, which is a TIER 5!


Oh, I remember the OP now.

I laid out exactly how insignificant both shining through and LGS Affirmation (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475444-Fixing-enlightened-spirit?p=5827465&viewfull=1#post5827465) was and he quoted me and laughed (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475444-Fixing-enlightened-spirit?p=5827519&viewfull=1#post5827519).

When you are right, you are right LagMonsterrrrrr. In this case you are soo right! It is hilarious. I can't stop laughing.

So is it overpowered or is it insignificant? I smell irony in your words but I'm not sure if that's the case.
Instead of consfusing us even more, at least let the people know what is worth crafting and what is not.
People tend to trust those who show test results and numbers and there are alot of them who don't spend their materials until they have a straight answer as to what is finally worth crafting.

[Coyopa]

Yup. It was the first "special effect" I built on my FvS when LGS first showed up. I was thinking how awesome I could make Divine Wrath. I made the mistake of assuming the code was pulled from the Frozen Tunic and thus gave a bit of bonus damage through helpless. You know because consistency.... I bug reported it early on but we know how that goes. Once something is released, Turbine almost never goes back to make adjustments.


I can get you a screen shot the next time I play.

No need for a screen shot. I completely believe you. I'm just amazed at how difficult they make everything - for themselves and for the players.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

Afirmation crapness is just one part of how **** lgs is.


And yes warlocks are still ridiculous stupid op.

[HAL]

The fact that we had a successful heroic model, and that dev's couldn't figure this out, shows that they put little thought or effort into the LGS items.

Every time I read a thread like this I wonder what everyone who insults the devs thinks that is going to accomplish. In my regular adult life I don't see a lot of people who try to encourage someone to do things the way they want by insulting them. I know exactly 1 person who does this regularly and it doesn't get him anywhere.

There are also a lot of assumptions like "they put little thought or effort into the LGS items" which could also be viewed as insulting.

I'm not defending LGS because I don't grind it. I'm not even defending the devs although a lot of people stupidly think that's what comments like this are. I'm just making an observation.

[Coyopa]

Every time I read a thread like this I wonder what everyone who insults the devs thinks that is going to accomplish. In my regular adult life I don't see a lot of people who try to encourage someone to do things the way they want by insulting them. I know exactly 1 person who does this regularly and it doesn't get him anywhere.

There are also a lot of assumptions like "they put little thought or effort into the LGS items" which could also be viewed as insulting.

I'm not defending LGS because I don't grind it. I'm not even defending the devs although a lot of people stupidly think that's what comments like this are. I'm just making an observation.

Well, I can understand why people (including me) make comments like these. When you've given them suggestions and feedback until you're blue in the face and they still plow ahead with garbage like this, then once it's been foisted upon you there is little left to do but complain and throw barbs.

[HAL]

Well, I can understand why people (including me) make comments like these. When you've given them suggestions and feedback until you're blue in the face and they still plow ahead with garbage like this, then once it's been foisted upon you there is little left to do but complain and throw barbs.

So you're saying that as an adult (I'm assuming) you believe that the correct course of action when you don't get your way is to insult people? Just making sure that you mean to say what I'm reading.

[Coyopa]

So you're saying that as an adult (I'm assuming) you believe that the correct course of action when you don't get your way is to insult people? Just making sure that you mean to say what I'm reading.

Well, yes and no. It's not the fact we didn't get our way. It's the fact they turned out such a poorly designed, poorly implemented system/product when they had ample input from their target audience informing them that their design and implementation were inferior. It's the fact they chose not to listen to any of the feedback and constructive criticism they received that exposes them to negative feedback and negative criticism.

[HAL]

Well, yes and no. It's not the fact we didn't get our way. It's the fact they turned out such a poorly designed, poorly implemented system/product when they had ample input from their target audience informing them that their design and implementation were inferior. It's the fact they chose not to listen to any of the feedback and constructive criticism they received that exposes them to negative feedback and negative criticism.

You and other people are making a lot of assumptions. In your specific case:

-That these systems are poorly designed / implemented. This system may be more or less what the devs intended. There are people in this thread who state that they use LGS and there are probably many more out there (the forums are only 10% of players).

-That you are the target audience.

-That they didn't listen to feedback (they just didn't do what you wanted - not the same thing).

And I will say again that just because they didn't do what you wanted doesn't equate that the proper course of action is to insult them. I'm just talking logic here. It happens constantly in life that you don't get what you want. IRL most people don't go around insulting people over it. Only when you have the anonymity of the internet do you feel like this is an acceptable way to act.

[PNellesen]

the lack of dual shard effects on items was all it took for me to give up on the entire LGS system.
If YOU have given up on LGS, then it really must suck. Badly.

(And thanks for sparing your guild members the pain of grinding out the mats only to discover how mostly harmless the gear actually is...)

[Hoglum]

What weapons in the game are more powerful than LGS weapons?

[nokowi]

Every time I read a thread like this I wonder what everyone who insults the devs thinks that is going to accomplish. In my regular adult life I don't see a lot of people who try to encourage someone to do things the way they want by insulting them. I know exactly 1 person who does this regularly and it doesn't get him anywhere.

There are also a lot of assumptions like "they put little thought or effort into the LGS items" which could also be viewed as insulting.

I'm not defending LGS because I don't grind it. I'm not even defending the devs although a lot of people stupidly think that's what comments like this are. I'm just making an observation.

I would think they could look at the specifics of my comments, and do better in the future.

I was on the players Council, and saw the amount of thought that went into LGS. They completely bypassed the very good suggestions from the PC. My opinion is that they put little effort into some very simple concepts (replayability, what players want, etc) for the most beloved raid in the game. If you disagree, that is your opinion. My opinion is my opinion and can't be wrong.

[krimsonrane]

The five piece set for melee is awesome and Legendary Shroud is fun. If you run it often, you will have plenty of mats. If you don't like them, don't use them. Pass the mats to others if you want.

What is this set you speak of? Show it to me please.

[Coyopa]

You and other people are making a lot of assumptions. In your specific case:

-That these systems are poorly designed / implemented. This system may be more or less what the devs intended. There are people in this thread who state that they use LGS and there are probably many more out there (the forums are only 10% of players). You can look at the equipment and effects and recognize it is poorly designed. You're arguing that it is not simply for the sake of argument. Are all items and effects poorly designed? Of course not. In my opinion, the majority are. LGS is good for casters and that's it.

-That you are the target audience. I would expect that the entire playerbase is the target audience. I play the game, making me part of the playerbase; ergo, I am part of the target audience. To argue otherwise is condescending, arrogant, and insulting.

-That they didn't listen to feedback (they just didn't do what you wanted - not the same thing). Since it has been empirically proven they did not listen to feedback, this is - once again - you arguing for the sake of it. More than one person on the Player's Council at that time has remarked that the developers ignored feedback that would have made this system better.

And I will say again that just because they didn't do what you wanted doesn't equate that the proper course of action is to insult them. I'm just talking logic here. It happens constantly in life that you don't get what you want. IRL most people don't go around insulting people over it. Only when you have the anonymity of the internet do you feel like this is an acceptable way to act.

Responses in red. Also, you don't know what I'm like offline. I'm actually pretty acerbic offline as well as online. If you're smart about when, then it's a powerful and useful tool. The developers have been asked multiple times in multiple threads to improve the LGS system. There's been nary a peep, which is a pretty good indicator they aren't listening with any intent to incorporate feedback. Certainly, needling them isn't going to get them to change their minds on this, and I don't care about that because they're clearly not going to change their minds anyway. That's why I said they foisted this system upon us. Due to the fact it has been foisted upon us and all the hue and cry since has gone unheeded, there is little reason to hold back with negative feedback. Here, this might help you understand what I'm saying (since I know "foist" and "foisted upon" are not often used): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=foist

[HAL]

I would think they could look at the specifics of my comments, and do better in the future.

I was on the players Council, and saw the amount of thought that went into LGS. They completely bypassed the very good suggestions from the PC. My opinion is that they put little effort into some very simple concepts (replayability, what players want, etc) for the most beloved raid in the game. If you disagree, that is your opinion. My opinion is my opinion and can't be wrong.

Why are you assuming that your comments are what would promote something better? They bypassed suggestions that you believe are good. And even if you are correct, you have NO IDEA why they did not incorporate these suggestions. There might be very good reasons that they are not allowed to tell us. So instead you assume that you have better ideas than professionals and insult them for not following your suggestions.

[knightgf]

To be honest I had no idea how bad the weapon damage is. I do know that some of the set bonuses are totally lame as are some of the clickies. The HP items and maybe the SP items are not too bad at least. LGS is in need of a major buff in these areas, for sure. I feel that LGS crafting was rushed and not properly looked at, although if theres one thing I do like, the codex runes really help save on inventory slots.

I think one way to really improve clickies is to apply character bonuses and feats to clickie spells that are cast. For example, if your a cold savant sorcerer who casts a polar ray clickie from a greensteel quarterstaff, not only does it apply your spellpower & DC bonuses, but also any metamagic feats that you have to the spell to make it just like your casting it using your SP. This is on top of caster level scaling to make it equal to your caster level. The only thing that won't benefit staves are cooldown bonuses and SP discounts, since the staves will still cost the same amount of charges regardless of how many metamagic feats you have and that staves are clickie items. Legendary Greensteel can apply this mechanic to ALL clickie items just to make them 'legendary' in nature, and to help provide incentive for quarterstaff casters, quarterstaves will store at least triple the amount of charges.

[Ghwyn]

I think the LGS system is just too complicated for some to understand. LGS, when built correctly, is very powerful and great for melee. I have seen what a 5 piece set does, and Ender goes off enough to be useful, and all the other associated bonuses are nice. Even the weapons are great, even if you just need a swap in stat item. I see L shroud run often, so contrary to the complainers, it appears to be a success.

[Coyopa]

I see L shroud run often, so contrary to the complainers, it appears to be a success.

Or it could be that players recognize no changes are going to be made, accept the stall muck that we've been handed, and are making the best of it.

[Ghwyn]

Or it could be that players recognize no changes are going to be made, accept the stall muck that we've been handed, and are making the best of it.

The vague generalities are often the standard of those who complain just for entertainment.

LGS has stat bonuses, damage bonuses and resistance, many different effects and dr bypasses, etc. The set bonuses are nice if it works for your build. It won't work for all builds, but is great for melee, something I read on here that needs help.

Just because it was not made the way to wanted, does not mean it is not good. Once nice thing is that it is an option, not something that is required to complete LE content.

[HAL]

Responses in red.


You and other people are making a lot of assumptions. In your specific case:

-That these systems are poorly designed / implemented. This system may be more or less what the devs intended. There are people in this thread who state that they use LGS and there are probably many more out there (the forums are only 10% of players).

You can look at the equipment and effects and recognize it is poorly designed. You're arguing that it is not simply for the sake of argument. Are all items and effects poorly designed? Of course not. In my opinion, the majority are. LGS is good for casters and that's it.

I'm not arguing anything about LGS as I don't care about it. I'm saying that you talk as though your opinion that it is poorly designed is fact that holds true for everyone. Just because you don't like Mayo on your hamburger doesn't mean the hamburger is bad.


-That you are the target audience.

I would expect that the entire playerbase is the target audience. I play the game, making me part of the playerbase; ergo, I am part of the target audience. To argue otherwise is condescending, arrogant, and insulting.

It is not the case that stating that you might not be the target audience is "condescending, arrogant, and insulting". This game is full of content that is targeted toward particular kinds of players.


-That they didn't listen to feedback (they just didn't do what you wanted - not the same thing).

Since it has been empirically proven they did not listen to feedback, this is - once again - you arguing for the sake of it. More than one person on the Player's Council at that time has remarked that the developers ignored feedback that would have made this system better.

People from the PC making statements is not empirical proof. If there was a dev comment on the PC forums to the effect that they were purposefully not reading suggestions (ignoring), it would be all over these forums, NDA or not. The fact that such empirical evidence doesn't exist means that the PC members making these statements actually mean that the devs didn't ACT upon their suggestions (not the same as "ignoring").


Also, you don't know what I'm like offline. I'm actually pretty acerbic offline as well as online. If you're smart about when, then it's a powerful and useful tool.

I never said that people who thought insulting others was a valid tactic didn't exist - in fact I gave an example. No, its not a powerful or useful tool. The fact that someone can bully another into doing what they want just makes them a bully, not powerful.


The developers have been asked multiple times in multiple threads to improve the LGS system. There's been nary a peep, which is a pretty good indicator they aren't listening with any intent to incorporate feedback. Certainly, needling them isn't going to get them to change their minds on this, and I don't care about that because they're clearly not going to change their minds anyway. That's why I said they foisted this system upon us. Due to the fact it has been foisted upon us and all the hue and cry since has gone unheeded, there is little reason to hold back with negative feedback. Here, this might help you understand what I'm saying (since I know "foist" and "foisted upon" are not often used): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=foist

Yes, the developers aren't doing what you want. That has been established ad infinitum. I know what "foist" means but you aren't obliged to play Legendary Shroud and even if you do you aren't obliged to create LGS.

[Thrudh]

I have seen what a 5 piece set does

Again, where do you find slots to equip a 5 piece set? The wearable items give resistance bonuses, resistance to elements, skill bonuses, and guard bonuses. I can't see any possible reasons to have 5 of these take up slots.

I like L Shroud, and it does seem to be run fairly often.

[Krelar]

LGS has stat bonuses, damage bonuses and resistance, many different effects and dr bypasses, etc. The set bonuses are nice if it works for your build. It won't work for all builds, but is great for melee, something I read on here that needs help.

I'm curious what gear layout you're using that the 5 piece bonus is great on your melee. From looking at it I find it hard to believe that you aren't loosing far more in those 5 slots than you're gaining.

[Taimasan]

You and other people are making a lot of assumptions. In your specific case:

-That these systems are poorly designed / implemented. This system may be more or less what the devs intended. There are people in this thread who state that they use LGS and there are probably many more out there (the forums are only 10% of players).

-That you are the target audience.

-That they didn't listen to feedback (they just didn't do what you wanted - not the same thing).

And I will say again that just because they didn't do what you wanted doesn't equate that the proper course of action is to insult them. I'm just talking logic here. It happens constantly in life that you don't get what you want. IRL most people don't go around insulting people over it. Only when you have the anonymity of the internet do you feel like this is an acceptable way to act.


Not true, if I was face to face with you I would say it to your face, that I think your not saying that your not defending the devs. Because I feel you are.

And on a second note I would say it to any of the developer's faces how I feel. Don't assume things you don't know. Its not being behind the screen, I know people in my life(using your example) who would kill you over $5. And insult people all the time. And they do get results through violence, intimidation, and murder. Maybe in your white bread, Brady Bunch RL you don't see people doing these things. But in my RL, i see it on daily basis. Don't assume to know how people act and assume people are a monolith.

[Ghwyn]

Again, where do you find slots to equip a 5 piece set? The wearable items give resistance bonuses, resistance to elements, skill bonuses, and guard bonuses. I can't see any possible reasons to have 5 of these take up slots.

I like L Shroud, and it does seem to be run fairly often.

It is a trade off. One guy I run with often has the Ender set. He has kept it a while, and he thinks the trade off is worth it, so I will give it a try. I still need another immortal heart. I also don't have the best of everything in each slot, so it is not a big of a sacrifice for me as it could be for some. Cloak, belt, necklace, gloves, and goggles are where mine will go. Maybe bracers, just have to see what the numbers are before I craft the last few pieces.

[Chai]

With the exception of Thunderforged, players have always complained about new weapons. Unless the new gear is 50% better than the old gear, players will complain regardless of the quality of the new gear.

Yes players are dismissing some of the effective LGS gear. That doesn't change the fact that the weapons generally don't give a noticable proc. Players want an exciting damage spike, not continual lower-grade damage. The fact that we had a successful heroic model, and that dev's couldn't figure this out, shows that they put little thought or effort into the LGS items. The fact that the ignored the Players Council also shows how little they valued the most loved raid in the game.

Its about providing realistic feedback. I'm not seeing that nobody plays it anymore because it all sucks and no one cares about getting the gear in game. I hear this claim made often and loudly on the forums however.

I do agree it could be much better, but I'm not on board with the "all of it sucks and no one plays it" feedback.

I do think attitudes are a lot different than they were before. Heroic shroud wasn't defeated in the first few hours like the current one was. Heroic shroud was beaten after a few weeks, and it took months to put together groups that won consistently, even on normal. This was acceptable then. Nowdays people jump up on the ledge and avoid having to run the entirety of part 5, and disband after one wipe. Heck, some even disband if they have to do part 2 more than once because one mob makes it back before the crystal is HtH'd. So the fact that we view heroic shroud through rose colored glasses is due in large art to those different attitudes and expectations.


I don't care how little resources they had, it would have been trivial to do much better. What they produced was low quality, even if you find some things you like about it. They didn't include things players want (noticeable proc, customization of gear , augment slot, 4 effects on two handed weapon), and they didn't design any of the raids for replayability. Once you get the one armor you want out of HoX or TS, you are done. All they needed was:

1. better LGS items (noticeable damage spike proc, set bonus through augment slot, allowing you to choose the tier 1-3 effects you actually want)
2. replayability (turn in 10 smalls for a medium, 10 mediums for a large). Chance of large ingredient on LE TS or HoX.
3. Two handed weapons are a double shard (more ingredients, but 4 effects)
4. normal augment slot (possibly an additional one for THF)

These are so simple and obvious if you design your content for replayability and for what players want. LGS didn't need to be OP to do these things.

The augment slots help casters more than melee, which was one of the goals of the LGS pass.

I agree that much of this doesn't scale like the heroic version did. ~500 damage lit2 lightning strike was a much higher proc percentage wise (compared to mob HP) for someone to be running around with at levels 12-16 than the procs are now for level 30.

[Coyopa]

Once nice thing is that it is an option, not something that is required to complete LE content.

Fortunately, this is true.

[Ghwyn]

what 5 piece set did you make that gives the overall benefit to the build that trumps filling those spots with non LGS gear.
Did you actually make and use a 5 piece set or are you filling the role of a false prophet snake oil salesman.

Look it up. http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Green_Steel_items

[HAL]

what 5 piece set did you make that gives the overall benefit to the build that trumps filling those spots with non LGS gear.
Did you actually make and use a 5 piece set or are you filling the role of a false prophet snake oil salesman.

I'm curious - if you know someone who says "the new Lotus Evora Range is awesome", do you ask them if they actually own such a vehicle and otherwise call them names?

Perhaps you aren't aware that it is possible to form an opinion on something without actually having that item. In fact forming an opinion on an item is usually performed BEFORE acquiring it...

[BigErkyKid]

With the exception of Thunderforged, players have always complained about new weapons. Unless the new gear is 50% better than the old gear, players will complain regardless of the quality of the new gear.

Yes players are dismissing some of the effective LGS gear. That doesn't change the fact that the weapons generally don't give a noticable proc. Players want an exciting damage spike, not continual lower-grade damage. The fact that we had a successful heroic model, and that dev's couldn't figure this out, shows that they put little thought or effort into the LGS items. The fact that the ignored the Players Council also shows how little they valued the most loved raid in the game.



I don't care how little resources they had, it would have been trivial to do much better. What they produced was low quality, even if you find some things you like about it. They didn't include things players want (noticeable proc, customization of gear , augment slot, 4 effects on two handed weapon), and they didn't design any of the raids for replayability. Once you get the one armor you want out of HoX or TS, you are done. All they needed was:

1. better LGS items (noticeable damage spike proc, set bonus through augment slot, allowing you to choose the tier 1-3 effects you actually want)
2. replayability (turn in 10 smalls for a medium, 10 mediums for a large). Chance of large ingredient on LE TS or HoX.
3. Two handed weapons are a double shard (more ingredients, but 4 effects)
4. normal augment slot (possibly an additional one for THF)

These are so simple and obvious if you design your content for replayability and for what players want. LGS didn't need to be OP to do these things.

The augment slots help casters more than melee, which was one of the goals of the LGS pass.

Signed. So you were in the PC, why exactly did they settle for the pile of crab? It is not cost that for sure.

[nokowi]

Why are you assuming that your comments are what would promote something better? They bypassed suggestions that you believe are good. And even if you are correct, you have NO IDEA why they did not incorporate these suggestions. There might be very good reasons that they are not allowed to tell us. So instead you assume that you have better ideas than professionals and insult them for not following your suggestions.

Why are you worried about me when I make critical feedback to the dev's?

I can't give my opinion of their efforts but you can give your opinion of my opinion? Seems hypocritical to be.

Stop attacking my opinions and telling me they are wrong.


Instead, talk to the devs and tell them specifically how great LGS is.

If you aren't going to do this, stop responding to my posts.

You are attacking me instead of my ideas (which makes your argument weak AND makes you look bad).

[nokowi]

Signed. So you were in the PC, why exactly did they settle for the pile of crab? It is not cost that for sure.

They pretty much just skipped the feedback loop altogether. I would say they didn't ask for our opinion early enough to utilize the negative feedback they received.

They have a history of sometimes thinking they can just tweak little things based on comments, when the feedback often requires more rework of their original plan. Sometimes they also do everything correctly. In this particular case, they didn't take advantage of the PC process.

[nokowi]

I do agree it could be much better, but I'm not on board with the "all of it sucks and no one plays it" feedback.



I can certainly agree with this. However, I can also listen to any specifics from those saying "all of it sucks" and see that they make valid points for what is lacking. I think these people can still contribute to the thread without sidetracking to why they are wrong.

You can simply post what you like about LGS in this thread instead of trying to correct other people. I would like to say I always follow my own advice, but... :)

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

You can cry as much you want but for melees lGS is garbage.

The devs did a terrible job with it.

And warlocks are still stupid.

lol 5 pieces lgs in a melee, who's that amazing melee? Darig drow tank?

[Thrudh]

However, I can also listen to any specifics from those saying "all of it sucks" and see that they make valid points for what is lacking.

The people who post "all of it sucks" don't GIVE specifics. That's the point.

I think the melee set bonus looks awesome... I just can't imagine any build that can afford to give up FIVE inventory slots just for that set bonus, and not end up worse. If someone could explain such a build/inventory lay-out, I would appreciate being corrected.

[nokowi]

I'm curious - if you know someone who says "the new Lotus Evora Range is awesome", do you ask them if they actually own such a vehicle and otherwise call them names?

Perhaps you aren't aware that it is possible to form an opinion on something without actually having that item. In fact forming an opinion on an item is usually performed BEFORE acquiring it...

Equipping the 5 piece set is actually a challenge, with the loss of augments and other abilities you need (deadly seeker, doublestrike, etc).

I can't fit 5 piece into my build without losing more than I gain.

I would suggest you try a 5 piece build before assuming that it is easy.

[nokowi]

The people who post "all of it sucks" don't GIVE specifics. That's the point.



Too often that's true. If they are just here to complain, trying to alter their viewpoint is a also waste of time.

The problem arises when someone claims to be here for a discussion but just wants to complain.

[JOTMON]

I'm curious - if you know someone who says "the new Lotus Evora Range is awesome", do you ask them if they actually own such a vehicle and otherwise call them names?

Perhaps you aren't aware that it is possible to form an opinion on something without actually having that item. In fact forming an opinion on an item is usually performed BEFORE acquiring it...

sure, we all build opinions about things before we try it, and we develop the opinion based on information from other sources..
Discerning BS from factual information is how we build the basis of informed opinions that lead us to decisions and choices.

So, if I am talking to a guy sitting in his new Lotus Evora 410 and he is comparing it to his wifes Porche.. I tend to weigh his information value higher than the teenage kid working at the quicky mart who is looking at the magazine cover. saying 'dude, that car is awsome.'

besides, he already answered the question... he formed his opinion based on an incomplete partial set and information from a guy he ran with.


The five piece set for melee is awesome


It is a trade off. One guy I run with often has the Ender set. He has kept it a while, and he thinks the trade off is worth it, so I will give it a try. I still need another immortal heart. I also don't have the best of everything in each slot, so it is not a big of a sacrifice for me as it could be for some. Cloak, belt, necklace, gloves, and goggles are where mine will go. Maybe bracers, just have to see what the numbers are before I craft the last few pieces.


I have a stat stick.. which is great.. great for casters as a one hander who can equip a Thunderforged power stick in the other hand.. but sticks do not contribute to the set bonus..
I have also crafted 3 gear pieces to T3 (and cleansed two), 1 crafted item does not contribute to the set bonus, so only currently working with a two piece set, and I am struggling to make this work beyond two pieces.
So from what I see trying to build a 5 piece set costs me too much.. so yeah, when someone says the 5 piece set is great.. I am skeptical..

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

I'm very specific, everything in the LGS wep or equips suck donkey balls if you are a melee.

[Ghwyn]

I'm very specific, everything in the LGS wep or equips suck donkey balls if you are a melee.

People like you kill conversation and get threads locked. That is never helpful.

[Hoglum]

What weapons in the game are more powerful than LGS weapons?


I'll ask again. I suggest we compare DDO weapons side by side and see how bad LGS is.

What do you have lagmonster? Name 5 at least.

If these weapons are so terrible, what's better?

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

Anything with slots.

The next update to stats will be the death of lgs.

[Cantor]

I argued for the set bonuses to come through the clicky slot (placing an augment here). This would allow

1. much more customization by picking effects you want
2. much longer use of shroud raid (you can grab useful effects while you work on the more costly set bonuses).
3. this would also allow you to make several versions of a set. (more replayability)

OMG why didn't they do this. The limited options of the set system turns me off to even trying to build them.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

People like you kill conversation and get threads locked. That is never helpful.

The thread will be locked soon because a lot of ppl is pointing out how terrible turbine job is in the last few years, not just this system.

They are not going to fix, they are not saying they know it suck, some ppl will still say they love it even knowing it suck and thats why the game is dying.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

let me answer your questions:

1. LGS is garbage for melees;

2. Warlock is ********;

3. set bonus is ******** for melees;

4. warlock is stupid;

5. turbine is doing a terrible job;

6. warlock is moronic.

Did i miss anything?

Trolling lol, turbine is trolling us for years already.

[HAL]

Why are you worried about me when I make critical feedback to the dev's?

I can't give my opinion of their efforts but you can give your opinion of my opinion? Seems hypocritical to be.

Stop attacking my opinions and telling me they are wrong.


Instead, talk to the devs and tell them specifically how great LGS is.

If you aren't going to do this, stop responding to my posts.

You are attacking me instead of my ideas (which makes your argument weak AND makes you look bad).

I'm not objecting to critical feedback. I'm objecting to insults and statements like this:


I would think they could look at the specifics of my comments, and do better in the future.

[HAL]

sure, we all build opinions about things before we try it, and we develop the opinion based on information from other sources..
Discerning BS from factual information is how we build the basis of informed opinions that lead us to decisions and choices.

So, if I am talking to a guy sitting in his new Lotus Evora 410 and he is comparing it to his wifes Porche.. I tend to weigh his information value higher than the teenage kid working at the quicky mart who is looking at the magazine cover. saying 'dude, that car is awsome.'

Nothing wrong with you being skeptical, just wondering why you have to insult someone you might disagree with.


I have a stat stick.. which is great.. great for casters as a one hander who can equip a Thunderforged power stick in the other hand.. but sticks do not contribute to the set bonus..
I have also crafted 3 gear pieces to T3 (and cleansed two), 1 crafted item does not contribute to the set bonus, so only currently working with a two piece set, and I am struggling to make this work beyond two pieces.
So from what I see trying to build a 5 piece set costs me too much.. so yeah, when someone says the 5 piece set is great.. I am skeptical..

The fact that this set might not work for you doesn't mean it can't work for some people. I see lots of people asking how you could fit it into your gear - what if everyone doesn't have the same gear you do? This thread started with an opinion: "LGS is garbage". Ghwyn answered with a different opinion. You can disagree with it but I don't see that it requires insults.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

You can do whatever you want in this game but it don't change the fact that LGS is garbage or that warlocks are stupid op.

[nokowi]

I'm not objecting to critical feedback. I'm objecting to insults and statements like this:

I object to your objection.

I guess we disagree on what an insult is.

I apologize to everyone on the turbine staff who felt insulted.

[Chauncey1]

You can do whatever you want in this game but it don't change the fact that LGS is garbage or that warlocks are stupid op.

Opinions are not facts.

Good day.

[Coyopa]

My perspective is that the entire system - on balance - is a failure. That does mean there are parts of it that are a success for some people. I just feel there is more bad than good. I also feel that Turbine doesn't care and the developers and QA don't have any pride in their work to let such a system go live without continuing to improve it. I can accept it going live in a sub-optimal state. I cannot accept them accepting that state and allowing it to remain in that state.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

My perspective is that the entire system - on balance - is a failure. That does mean there are parts of it that are a success for some people. I just feel there is more bad than good. I also feel that Turbine doesn't care and the developers and QA don't have any pride in their work to let such a system go live without continuing to improve it. I can accept it going live in a sub-optimal state. I cannot accept them accepting that state and allowing it to remain in that state.

Exactly what i said, it's a freaking failure for melees. Not for everybody.

[kmoustakas]

It is obvious that the loot designers have issues evaluating the power level of items.

I vividly remember when I was told that broken music box had to be minimum level 24 because they didn't want to make an item that would be best in slot for all levels. I was reading it thinking 'does this guy even play this game? At all?'. The second time was when I was told that the coffee potion doesn't work with artificer potion knowledge because they 'didn't want to make a broken powerful item'.

The designers who think that a minimum level 15 UNBOUND so you can move around your toons +8 strength/+8 constitution and slot bracers is fine also thinks broken music box has to be minimum level 24 otherwise it'll be best in slot for all levels.

^^

[Coyopa]

It is obvious that the loot designers have issues evaluating the power level of items.

I vividly remember when I was told that broken music box had to be minimum level 24 because they didn't want to make an item that would be best in slot for all levels. I was reading it thinking 'does this guy even play this game? At all?'. The second time was when I was told that the coffee potion doesn't work with artificer potion knowledge because they 'didn't want to make a broken powerful item'.

The designers who think that a minimum level 15 UNBOUND so you can move around your toons +8 strength/+8 constitution and slot bracers is fine also thinks broken music box has to be minimum level 24 otherwise it'll be best in slot for all levels.

^^

Wow. I had forgotten all about Broken Music Box. I cannot imagine a level where I would find that item useful. I suppose if it were ML1 and I had a Master's Gift, then that would go in the colorless slot. However, I would have to change the augments in the other two slots continually as I level, which would get horribly expensive either in terms of number of augments used and lost or in terms of jeweler's kits used to salvage the augments I was replacing.

[LagMonsterrrrrr]

If they don't know the game or aren't smart enough to do something right why they don't listen the feedback?

[Tlorrd]

Wow. I had forgotten all about Broken Music Box. I cannot imagine a level where I would find that item useful. I suppose if it were ML1 and I had a Master's Gift, then that would go in the colorless slot. However, I would have to change the augments in the other two slots continually as I level, which would get horribly expensive either in terms of number of augments used and lost or in terms of jeweler's kits used to salvage the augments I was replacing.

The box might have been great when the initially messed up the proc rate of cacophonic guard. For a little while a few years back, the proc rate was like 20-50%. Two wrongs make a right?

[lugoman]

Something is wrong when a random item from a chest in the raid is better than an item you craft from running the raid many, many times farming ingredients.

[Tilomere]

Yes players are dismissing some of the effective LGS gear.

LGS is good enough to do any content in the game. Affirmation proc may be too weak to do much, but I find 150 stacking + spell power and 50/70 HAMP to make it amazing. If your base builds deal enough damage, you could use the same 150/50/70 affirmation weapon on everyone.

Vacuum is pretty much BiS for 90% of the player base. Fully knowing this, I made ooze anyway because I don't need the damage, but lolz are priceless.

[nokowi]

LGS is good enough to do any content in the game. Affirmation proc may be too weak to do much, but I find 150 stacking + spell power and 50/70 HAMP to make it amazing. If your base builds deal enough damage, you could use the same 150/50/70 affirmation weapon on everyone.

Vacuum is pretty much BiS for 90% of the player base. Fully knowing this, I made ooze anyway because I don't need the damage, but lolz are priceless.


It would be most precise to say that it is poorly designed rather than useless.

1. We expect exciting proc from LGS weapons based on our heroic experience
2. The clicky slot is extremely expensive while serves very little purpose
3. Getting each of the pieces of your set is not individually interesting (see #4)
4. The sets are not customizable to things you want (you only care about the set bonus)

I'm sure you can find an exception to these for some individual build/gear, but these describe a good portion of the LGS items. 1-4 mean that this content has less replayability than it could.

Some people also expected augments, and the lack of this functionality subtracts from the DPS increase you might get from the LGS weapon itself compared to other weapons.

[Blastyswa]

To be honest I had no idea how bad the weapon damage is. I do know that some of the set bonuses are totally lame as are some of the clickies. The HP items and maybe the SP items are not too bad at least. LGS is in need of a major buff in these areas, for sure. I feel that LGS crafting was rushed and not properly looked at, although if theres one thing I do like, the codex runes really help save on inventory slots.

I think one way to really improve clickies is to apply character bonuses and feats to clickie spells that are cast. For example, if your a cold savant sorcerer who casts a polar ray clickie from a greensteel quarterstaff, not only does it apply your spellpower & DC bonuses, but also any metamagic feats that you have to the spell to make it just like your casting it using your SP. This is on top of caster level scaling to make it equal to your caster level. The only thing that won't benefit staves are cooldown bonuses and SP discounts, since the staves will still cost the same amount of charges regardless of how many metamagic feats you have and that staves are clickie items. Legendary Greensteel can apply this mechanic to ALL clickie items just to make them 'legendary' in nature, and to help provide incentive for quarterstaff casters, quarterstaves will store at least triple the amount of charges.

I do agree that damaging clickies would be much better if they were more like casting the spell without SP but with the regular power of the spell, as opposed to casting the spell in an incredibly weak form.

[JOTMON]

Was playing with the Escalation bonus .. it is pathetic in my evaluation...

Gem Set Bonus
Dominion +10% SP+ 2%/tier
Opposition +10% HP + 2%/tier
see the trend..

well this all goes to ***** ..
Escalation +1 Maximum Dodge +1dodge cap/ 2 tiers. (as in the dodge cap.. not your dodge bonus or the MDB)
Your Dexterity modifier for Maximum Dex bonus (MDB) still applies
doesn't raise the caps limited by armor or shields those caps still apply,
Since you have several limiting factors to increase dodge% Escalation only possibly helps those in PJ's with heavy investment into Dodge and Dex... doesn't synergize well..


Dominion and Opposition give ongoing value to any toon
Escalation really should have been more like the Racial for Gnome / Halfling / Deep Gnome
~ Nimble Reaction (Tier 2): +1/+2/+3 Maximum Dodge Bonus and Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus (cap)
and given 1% dodge/2 tiers.

Escalation is markedly inferior to Dominion and Escalation set bonus wise.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

Essence set bonus..
Material: increase in melee critical damage and spell critical multiplier.
~melee crit damage: 4, 10, 11, 13
~spell crit damage: 11, 23, 25, 29

Ethereal: increase in Incorporeal miss chance
~incorporeality: 2.5, 5.5 ..
what is the point of the .5?.. does that even calculate?

The Ethereal set bonus looks pretty wimpy compared to the material variant.

[Blastyswa]

Honestly, I think that even just adding an orange slot onto all EGS items retroactively and going forward (with stone of change) and a colorless slot at tier 3 would make them so much more useful. As it is I'd love to have Epic Concordant Opposition in one hand and something like Epic Ooze or Epic Radiance in the other, but having to drop Meridian Fragment and find another place to put +15 heal and +15 spellcraft is just too much.

[HAL]

Something is wrong when a random item from a chest in the raid is better than an item you craft from running the raid many, many times farming ingredients.

Oh? What'd you get? Screenshot please.

[Whitering]

Oh? What'd you get? Screenshot please.

I am pretty sure you can get 32 stat (2x16) and another bonus if you are lucky (spell res, sheltering, +2 dcs and stuff like that). Whether that is better, I don't know.

Personally I looked at LGS and looked at the mats required and loled, and that was that. I will run the raid when it comes up, but I am not going to specifically farm for anything, you absolutely do not need any of this for LE and I don't want to put ConOP on a weapon slot for any of the characters I plan on playing for a while anyway.

[Arkai]

2. The clicky slot is extremely expensive while serves very little purpose

Seriously.

For example: 12 medium and 12 small ingredients for a clickie of conjure bolts, a spell that can be cast from a common scroll from House Cannith Vendor. No one can defend this.

[BigErkyKid]

Seriously.

For example: 12 medium and 12 small ingredients for a clickie of conjure bolts, a spell that can be cast from a common scroll from House Cannith Vendor. No one can defend this.

Challenge accepted:

The clickies are not compulsory, and the system is fine overall. The set bonuses are nice. Arguably the gear is most helpful on casters, but they needed the love anyway.

There. I don't believe in any of this, but you can get those excuses from the usual people.

The system was rushed and it was a HUGE mistake to rush it, since it was part of the promised end game. One of the problems we have with the attempts to bring end game is that because they rush the content, no system can hold water for several updates.

Mortal fear had to be killed because it was so problematic. Now LGS had to be nerfed several times because it was broken in many ways. It remains incomplete and underwhelming. Anyone playing the game can tell that the clickies are rubbish.

If they didn't rush content /systems so much and LISTENED a bit more to the feedback, with LESS content and FEWER systems we would actually have a more satisfying game. It COSTS more money to have to constantly come up with new things and redo them than to have a single system.

The skins, the bug testing, are those free? The coding time? Please DDO, use a bit more smartly your scarce resources.

[-ninay-]

It is a trade off. One guy I run with often has the Ender set. He has kept it a while, and he thinks the trade off is worth it, so I will give it a try. I still need another immortal heart. I also don't have the best of everything in each slot, so it is not a big of a sacrifice for me as it could be for some. Cloak, belt, necklace, gloves, and goggles are where mine will go. Maybe bracers, just have to see what the numbers are before I craft the last few pieces.


The five piece set for melee is awesome

I can't wait to see how you would react when you try the five piece set for yourself.

[kmoustakas]

Oh? What'd you get? Screenshot please.

Well I just bought from the auction house at a trigger-happy* price a +17 hardy necklace of 60 false life.



* = Very expensive, will probably cry next update

[Eth]

* = Very expensive, will probably cry next update

You can probably craft it then.

[kmoustakas]

You can probably craft it then.

I am a max crafter and artificer to boot. If they make crafting that strong I'll be crying tears of joy!

[Vanhooger]

I am a max crafter and artificer to boot. If they make crafting that strong I'll be crying tears of joy!

They said crafting won't be as powerful as random loot. There is no point on having random loot if crafting is superior as you can make what you want and with the right combination.

[Chauncey1]

And when I finish it, I think it's going to hit a good deal harder than any of my lootgen bows. It's tier 3 now and is going to be an experimental massive electrical damage weapon. That said, there are some friggin AWESOME lootgen weaponries out there.

I haven't even looked into the set bonuses from lgs items yet.

[goodspeed]

If you are a melee.

Just crafted my first LGS tier 3 temp hp thing.

1. The wep damage is a joke;

2. no slots;

3. tier3 afirmation temp hp is a waste os ingredients, 1000hp every 1 min is BS. Most mobs hit for twice that damage.

turbine really did a great job ruining melees. Congratulations.

Only thing That LGS is good for is a caster stick. Even the crit % spells/spellpower can easily be obtained through any number of quests now or as regular random gen.

[Grandern_Marn]

If you are a melee.

Just crafted my first LGS tier 3 temp hp thing.

1. The wep damage is a joke;

2. no slots;

3. tier3 afirmation temp hp is a waste os ingredients, 1000hp every 1 min is BS. Most mobs hit for twice that damage.

turbine really did a great job ruining melees. Congratulations.


Yeah there were threads up on how bad the ToEE loot was also. Beyond the forum threads however you do see people running around with some awesome loot from ToEE though. There are some good builds in LGS as well. For both ToEE and LGS, if the loot was all OP awesome we would quickly end up with more of a 'loot slide' than 'loot creep'. It's good to see that there are threads going up with people not being completely happy with all of the loot.

[slarden]

It's not comparable to old greensteel which was very OP especially for TR. With all the complaints about the game being too easy I don't see why anyone would ask for more power.