BROKEN: extraplanar palace labor shortage (kobold pathing AI)

[Graskitch]

this was mentioned briefly in another recent thread https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/473434, I have been trying to run the extraplanar palace cannith challenge (labor shortage). I cannot determine specifically yet what is going on, but the kobold AI pathing is definitely broken - they end up somehow in the tar pits and die. Almost at the very beginning of the challenge, I hear a sizzling sound, and if I jump down to the tar, there is a kobold in the tar at dead center, right below where the foreman is up above. Later on, I start hearing more "a kobold worker has died" and find kobold soulstones littered around the tar center area.

I have run it a few times, and they just keep ending up in the tar.

The thing is - I have not actually seen the kobolds jump down, so I am not sure how they are ending up down there. I will run it a few times more to observe them.
[edit/update]: ok, I see now - the kobolds take the default torch pathlines that are laid out and immediately wander out into the tar, and get stuck there, unable to figure out how to get back up. I think it is possible to torch them back onto the platform if you pick up ALL the torches so that they do not get stuck under the main central platform. but it is a pain, and it was not always like this...

I know other people have encountered this issue so I was wondering if anyone has found a workaround? Is there a specific way of torching to prevent the kobolds from straying into the tar?

I tried putting down a teleporter in the tar, and picking up the torches on the platform above, but the kobolds just loitered around until they cried foul and died.

I know for certain that when I ran the heroic version that I did not encounter this problem, so I am not sure if I am doing something different this time.

ADDITIONAL INFO:

I ran it again, lagged a bit on loading in, and again immediately heard sizzling, and found 3 kobolds were directly below me on the ramp (I had not moved/placed any torches yet). odd..

then I restarted, and I just observed the kobolds, and none of them got stuck in the tar; although I did notice one kobold took a shortcut to get to one of the default-placed torches across the tar. but he made it across.
I was actually able to complete this time without the kobolds dying in the tar. I made sure to place the torch paths straight without shortcutting across open tar spaces in center (so basically at right angles).... maybe that is the solution? I am not sure, but the fact that on one instance the kobolds started out in the tar bothered me. I will have to see if that is a recurring event.

if they could just build a nice ramp for the kobolds to get back on track, or eliminate the damage from tar until the kobold pathing AI is corrected, that would help.

[Dragavon]

Pathing AI did obviously change in the last patch, and it is now worse than ever.

They did not say anything specific, but mobs and kobolds are obviously behaving in a different way compared to before. That they have broken some challenges does not surprise me.

[kmoustakas]

They end up in the tar pit because the 'placing barrel' sometimes ends up if you put it on a slope to go under and they are looking for the barrel below the platform. Or they think it is below.

Try to leave your barrels after the slopping path and onto the main path to avoid this issue happening.

edit: Obviously this is not the only reason: the same happens with the torches, teleporters etc.

[janave]

pathing edge detection stopped working, i had to go back 4 times for Arlos as he fell into the water...and reset in WaterWorks, few more examples but all NPC that can "fall/reset" is a potential bug now.

[Jeromio]

Could it have been one of the changes to fix lag; minimized pathing AI?

I noticed a while ago that many mobs in Wizking started to move oddly, e.g. mummies could no longer find the way up the stairs but got stuck underneath them instead.

[Kylstrem]

Here is what I've found. The AI for mob pathing degrades over time after each server reboot. At this point, (at least on Khyber), the AI is in this degraded state. Several days ago, the pathing was fine. Since at least yesterday, mobs are not pathing correctly. Turret mobs (one that usually only stand still and shoot) will now move and fall off ledges. Mobs chasing you will get stuck in corners, behind walls and not be able to get to you. Other mobs that shouldn't fall off ledges now do.

Essentially it is like every mob takes a straight path you to now ignoring ledges, walls, corners, environment.

Once they do server maintenance again or something else to reboot the servers, it will stay this way.

[Gaia_Liten]

I tested this out and it's a combination of the torches and the pathing, from what I saw. Read by QA. =o

[Enerdhil]

I'm running acute delirium every life and today got problem like never before. I send all beds at the same time and... All of them were trying to go through wall for a few min. They were running straight to wall instead of going through door first. After around 5 min first bed went with normal path and then... It took 1 min for next bed to follow previous one. +1 min 3rd bed.+1 min 4th etc.

I just hope turbine is not going to leave current pathing cause it's serious source of lags and it's better to play with stupid mobs than don't play at all.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I'm running acute delirium every life and today got problem like never before. I send all beds at the same time and... All of them were trying to go through wall for a few min. They were running straight to wall instead of going through door first. After around 5 min first bed went with normal path and then... It took 1 min for next bed to follow previous one. +1 min 3rd bed.+1 min 4th etc.

I just hope turbine is not going to leave current pathing cause it's serious source of lags and it's better to play with stupid mobs than don't play at all.

Yeah, that's been happening in there for a while now. I was running Spinner the other night, and spiders kept going into the lava and disappearing (ie, not respawning like most monsters who fall off edges do), which increased the amount of time it took to get the ward crystals.

Last night in Black Loch, I hit one of the pirates along the walkway leading to the ship with a DoT, and he kept charging straight at me, falling off into the water, respawning, getting hurt by the still-active DoT, charging straight at me, falling into the water, etc. It was kind of hilarious to watch while my insta-kill was off-timer.

[akwillowbear]

Its been happening to me too in different places, in sands they would run down one cliff
and right up the other to where I was at. In tangle root my spider did the same thing straight up a cliff but hey, it"s a spider...

[Vua]

There are issues in a few quests. In Breaking the Ranks on Sunday the Gnolls and Giants kept getting stuck behind the barriers. We had to go to the side to lead them out over and over again. Also in Larcener, after leaving the inn, every elf archer in the instance was aggroed on us and just came running. The ones behind walls or barriers were just pasted against them trying to shoot through the wall at whoever they first aggroed on when we zoned in. Also the casters and archers charged down to us when we started the fight on the boat. I think that should happen, but it never had before.

[janave]

Shroud part2 monsters also have problem with walls.


Its definitely not a Challenges only problem but something about vertical pathing and finding edges/navigating around things etc.etc.

[Nyata]

seen mobs fall over ledges and running into walls and doors even in misery's peak yesterday on Khyber. you know things are really off when stuff on Korthos is behaving weird.

[Robbenklopper]

I ran the challenges after my ER too and had None of These issues. They do the same stuff over and over since i first ran them 4 years ago, with one exception at me: one of the kobolds now get´s always stucked at Center between the ressurection shrine and the bridges Pylon. It´s not possible to torch or Barrel him outta there, just sometimes he gets free for the same reasons he got stuck. This one Kobold (especcially when barreled) is of importance for the challenge when you can´t buy more kobolds and just Speed buffs.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

seen mobs fall over ledges and running into walls and doors even in misery's peak yesterday on Khyber. you know things are really off when stuff on Korthos is behaving weird.

Also have seen lots of things falling over ledges.

Low level quest, swiped signet maybe?, the one with the quickfoot. In the room with water and all ramps. Archers consistently falling off.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Also have seen lots of things falling over ledges.

Low level quest, swiped signet maybe?, the one with the quickfoot. In the room with water and all ramps. Archers consistently falling off.

Ok, so update on this. Ran the swiped signet again after the update. Mobs were fine. No more suicidal archers jumping off cliffs.

So unless you updated something, maybe the old "turn it off and turn it back on again" fixed it somehow?

[Kylstrem]

Ok, so update on this. Ran the swiped signet again after the update. Mobs were fine. No more suicidal archers jumping off cliffs.

So unless you updated something, maybe the old "turn it off and turn it back on again" fixed it somehow?

It's that second thing and it has been that second thing for about 2-3 years. Many people have talked about it... AFter the servers have been running for a while with a reboot (maintenance, patch, update, etc), the pathing AI for mobs will degrade and we'll see everything reported in this thread. Now maybe they do some steps every time they reboot it clean out something that causes this, but they aren't making code changes each time.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

It's that second thing and it has been that second thing for about 2-3 years. Many people have talked about it... AFter the servers have been running for a while with a reboot (maintenance, patch, update, etc), the pathing AI for mobs will degrade and we'll see everything reported in this thread. Now maybe they do some steps every time they reboot it clean out something that causes this, but they aren't making code changes each time.

I agree.

There is a LOT of anecdotal evidence that lag, mob ai, etc is BETTER after a server restart.

PLEASE consider doing a server restart every week or at least every other week.

[Deadlock]

I tested this out and it's a combination of the torches and the pathing, from what I saw. Read by QA. =o

Do you mean that the torch area of influence was changed as well as the mob AI being dumbed down in an effort to reduce lag? I can confirm that from my own experience I am doing the exact same thing with torches that I've been doing successfully since these challenges were introduced - but we now have problems we didn't have before - so problems must be coming from a change at your end?

[azrael4h]

I've been having issues all day with the pathing on a fresh TR. Lost several champions in Swiped Signet, as they would repeatedly run off the edge of the walkways and into the water. Had Jeets get stuck in the Grotto, rendering it unable to be finished. Had to get a GM there to finish the quest.

Though it did benefit me in Stealthy Repossession. Most of the Kobolds got stuck behind crates and walls, so I was able to finish it with far less issues than normal.

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

I've been having issues all day with the pathing on a fresh TR. Lost several champions in Swiped Signet, as they would repeatedly run off the edge of the walkways and into the water. Had Jeets get stuck in the Grotto, rendering it unable to be finished. Had to get a GM there to finish the quest.

Though it did benefit me in Stealthy Repossession. Most of the Kobolds got stuck behind crates and walls, so I was able to finish it with far less issues than normal.

Swiped Signet is one of the easiest quests to tell if the pathing is borked. I've been favor running mules and did that one once right before a server restart and saw the suicidal mobs, once after, everything was fine.

[Weezysneezy]

This is really frustrating, barely making the quota with all these kobolds running into walls