Insightful bonus

[Tagros]

I have a Drow Elf warlock - I know, gimp, but its still a warlock.

One of the big advantages of the Drow is their innate spell resistance, so I was very pleased to get a CON10, Insightful Spell Resistance 11 random loot belt.

My SR score on the character sheet before I equipped it was 33 - I had no SR items on at all, this is just the innate Spell Resistance of a lvl23 Drow.
My SR score on the character sheet after I equipped the belt was 33.

My CON did improve by 10 into the low 40's so that was still nice and it shows that the belt did do something that it advertised.

Is this a bug or are insightful (and by inference, Quality and the other extra types of) enhancements only supposed to stack with competence values (and each other) and not with whatever innate abilities a character has?

[CSQ]

Spell Resistance is a special snowflake; stuff doesn't seem to stack with Drow innate racial SR and SR in general does not like to stack except in very particular situations. I'm pretty sure this is WAI, but I'm not sure since it does, in theory, imply it should stack. Your belt would, however, give 11 SR to your characters of other races... not that 11 SR is enough to do much at epic.

[Faltout]

As mentioned, normal spell resistance from items stacks with insightful spell resistance from items and neither of them stacks with drow SR.

[Tagros_Beta]

As mentioned, normal spell resistance from items stacks with insightful spell resistance from items and neither of them stacks with drow SR.

I agree that the Insightful Bonus is not stacking with Drow SR, but should it?

A normal SR item will say something like '+15 competence enhancement to Spell Resistance'.
So this will take a normal toon from 0 to 15 SR or a level 1 to 4 drow elf up to 15 but will have no effect on a level 5 drow or above.

The insightful SR item will say something along the lines of '+6 insightful bonus to Spell Resistance'.
So this will take a toon with no SR to 6, a toon wearing the +15 item from above to SR21 and I believe that it should add 6SR to a drow's innate SR - but it doesn't.

The question is, is it supposed to work with the Drow race, in which case its a bug.
Or is the Drow SR supposed to be unenhanceable (made-up word) and just stands or falls on its own, which seems to be a small penalty to the Drow - but is actually WAI?

[dunklezhan]

If you hover over your Spell Resistance on your character sheet it even says 'different sources do not stack'.

So any item with two sources of spell resistance on it is redundant (or should be). The bug would be if different sources were stacking for other races, not whether they were not stacking for Drow.

Assuming the tooltip is correct. And this is DDO, so you can't ever assume that.

Devs?

[Strider1963]

Spell Resistance is a special snowflake; stuff doesn't seem to stack with Drow innate racial SR and SR in general does not like to stack except in very particular situations. I'm pretty sure this is WAI, but I'm not sure since it does, in theory, imply it should stack. Your belt would, however, give 11 SR to your characters of other races... not that 11 SR is enough to do much at epic.

I think its utterly ridiculous that a non-drow can actually get more sr than a drow. Heck, a dorf barb with throw your weight around can get way more with enough con (wonder if insightful works with that). One of the major advantages to being a drow is having sr(at least in heroics).. And it should be more scalable in epics to give enough sr to be viable in epics.

[CSQ]

If you hover over your Spell Resistance on your character sheet it even says 'different sources do not stack'.

So any item with two sources of spell resistance on it is redundant (or should be). The bug would be if different sources were stacking for other races, not whether they were not stacking for Drow.

Assuming the tooltip is correct. And this is DDO, so you can't ever assume that.

Devs?

Actually, that's not exactly true; normal SR stacks with quality/insightful SR, but only in that *explicit* case; I think the way it handles SR is actually a separate tally of "standard" (equipment based) SR and "racial" SR, and only the category that's higher gets applied, I think. I experimented with SR a bit on my drow and never beat racial SR, so it's hard to say for sure.


I think its utterly ridiculous that a non-drow can actually get more sr than a drow. Heck, a dorf barb with throw your weight around can get way more with enough con (wonder if insightful works with that). One of the major advantages to being a drow is having sr(at least in heroics).. And it should be more scalable in epics to give enough sr to be viable in epics.

A level 30 drow has 40 SR, which is pretty hard to hit otherwise. When I made a drow, I don't think I was ever able to get my "standard" SR to pass my racial SR, even in heroics, because SR scaling is pretty slow. Granted, new loot gen may make it easier to pass if you get really lucky drops or prowl the AH, but you'd probably have to build for it, which may eat up equipment slots. I thought it was quite useful in epic normal stuff, though my build was not viable enough to clear hard/elite reliably given some terrible building mistakes.

[Eth]

I think its utterly ridiculous that a non-drow can actually get more sr than a drow. Heck, a dorf barb with throw your weight around can get way more with enough con (wonder if insightful works with that). One of the major advantages to being a drow is having sr(at least in heroics).. And it should be more scalable in epics to give enough sr to be viable in epics.

Except a drow barb will have more SR than a dorf barb, because the occult slayer capstone is actually something that does stack with drow SR. ;)

[Dandonk]

Except a drow barb will have more SR than a dorf barb, because the occult slayer capstone is actually something that does stack with drow SR. ;)

Indeed! Had an OS drow barb, very nice SR. Awful DPS, though.

[JOTMON]

I have a Drow Elf warlock - I know, gimp, but its still a warlock.

One of the big advantages of the Drow is their innate spell resistance, so I was very pleased to get a CON10, Insightful Spell Resistance 11 random loot belt.

My SR score on the character sheet before I equipped it was 33 - I had no SR items on at all, this is just the innate Spell Resistance of a lvl23 Drow.
My SR score on the character sheet after I equipped the belt was 33.

My CON did improve by 10 into the low 40's so that was still nice and it shows that the belt did do something that it advertised.

Is this a bug or are insightful (and by inference, Quality and the other extra types of) enhancements only supposed to stack with competence values (and each other) and not with whatever innate abilities a character has?

SR items and Drow do not stack, they intentionally screwed Drow and their racial enhancement tree for SR.

Its a growing trend, gear trumps class... Ranger barkskin.. or Natrual armor item.. Paladin protection.. or Protection augment..., owls,bears,bulls,foxes,etc.. or any stat item...
There is a declining value to diversified party and a growing migration to Solo'ists grouping together.. we don't need party diversity because it has no augmenting value to the group... just bring moar DPS...

[GregorianPL]

Spell resistance of different type stacks, I reached with random item with had 51 spell resistance and 24 insightfull spell resistance and another item with quality spell resistance 14 with give 89 spell resistance, and you can also get i think couple more SR from Grandmaster of Flowers, sadly u got to be very lucky to get Belt with 2 bonuses of spell resistance normal spell reistance is prefix and insight is suffix or extra bonus..

[JOTMON]

Spell resistance of different type stacks, I reached with random item with had 51 spell resistance and 24 insightfull spell resistance and another item with quality spell resistance 14 with give 89 spell resistance, and you can also get i think couple more SR from Grandmaster of Flowers, sadly u got to be very lucky to get Belt with 2 bonuses of spell resistance normal spell reistance is prefix and insight is suffix or extra bonus..

Yes the SR and insightful SR and the Grandmaster SR stack
now try it on a 'Drow' who has spent points into the Racial enhancement tree... Drow get screwed.

[Andu_Indorin]

Its a growing trend, gear trumps class... Ranger barkskin.. or Natrual armor item.. Paladin protection.. or Protection augment..., owls,bears,bulls,foxes,etc.. or any stat item...
There is a declining value to diversified party and a growing migration to Solo'ists grouping together.. we don't need party diversity because it has no augmenting value to the group... just bring moar DPS...

Astute observation. Another example of how power drift destroys the gaming experience.

[krimsonrane]

My testing has shown that insightful SR does not stack with drow SR BUT if you are wearing an SR item insightful will stack with that.

ie: A drow with 40SR wearing a SR+30/insightful SR +12 will have a total of 42 SR as if your own innate SR doesn't exist.

[Pnumbra]

...Its a growing trend, gear trumps class... Ranger barkskin.. or Natrual armor item.. Paladin protection.. or Protection augment..., owls,bears,bulls,foxes,etc.. or any stat item...
There is a declining value to diversified party and a growing migration to Solo'ists grouping together.. we don't need party diversity because it has no augmenting value to the group... just bring moar DPS...

I find insightful bonuses to be one of the best item enhancements we can find outside of named epic raid gear.

edit:
Forgot to mention that as a Half-Elf, my SR at level 25 is 53. So yes there are ways getting a nice bump up. Works well in EN/EH quest as Targos stated.

[Tagros]

Currently finishing the Grandmaster of Flowers ED, and with 3 points in Serenity which gives +9 SR (which stacks with everything), as a Lvl28 drow I currently have SR53 which has been useful in EN and EH (I don't solo EE) - 38 from drow, 6 from lvl5 GoF and 9 from Serenity. So some things do stack correctly with innate SR.



Btw Tagros and Tagros_Beta are the same account - something wacky happened when they mucked about with the forums a few years ago and I have to remember to change the display name to Tagros every time I log in - which as they both have similar numbers of posts, is not something I remember very often; usually just after I hit the submit reply button...