Absolute Minimum Level broken?

[CSQ]

I found a +6 Impulsive 101 Heavy Celestial Shield floating around on the market place today. Not too strange in and of itself, but I was searching for level 5-7 gear, so I did a quick double take; although the absolute minimum level was displayed as 22, the actual minimum level was 6. I dropped the requested price for the gear (2 mil plat buyout, but what are you going to spend it on anyway? Might as well do some research) and pulled it onto my wizard to see if it could actually be equipped at the advertised level. Suddenly, my !wizard! broke AC40 at level 6. This is probably not WAI. http://puu.sh/paTEG/800bc309b8.jpg

[Faltout]

Hm, so absolute minimum level did not prevent you from equipping it? Then it's broken.

As for the minimum level 6:
The problem is wondrous craftsmanship. With the new loot, the ML is decided upon item creation and then effects scale to that level. Since only the enhancement bonus (+6) counts for that shield's enchantment level, the shield is +6. Applying wondrous craftsmanship somehow forces the old loot ML calculation to take effect and place the item with the +4 items. The ML for old loot was (2 * <enchantment level> - 2). So, this shield becomes 2 * 4 - 2 = 6 ML.

As for the absolute minimum level of 22:
That comes with celestial. All celestial items have an AML of 22. That was possibly broken with old loot as well, but since noone could lower the ML of random loot items the issue never arose.

[CSQ]

Hm, so absolute minimum level did not prevent you from equipping it? Then it's broken.

Correct. Sorta. When I logged back in, the shield was in my inventory instead of equipped. However, I was able to equip it without any issues, which makes me think that the AML is there and doing something, but not keeping the item from being equipped at all times like it's supposed to. I mean, I'm not complaining too much (that's really good AC+Impulse for my wizard) but it's technically broken.

[Eryhn]

http://i.imgur.com/4yU5WUw.gif

[CSQ]

http://i.imgur.com/4yU5WUw.gif

But, technically, we do have nice things, since it's not WAI and I can use the shield at level 6 (and presumably there are other items that work the same way, since this is random gen and I doubt only one broken item randomly generated). However, it doesn't seem to have a huge combat impact, since my AC is still low enough to keep getting hit and I have maximize and empower on my impulse spells (all Archmage SLAs) so having about 40 extra spell power does very little in the grand scheme of things.

[cru212]

you can now add non-meta Magic Missile spell to the rotation for okay damage :-)

[kmoustakas]

You should put an icy burst kit on that and see what happens <3

[Rykka]

Did you recieve the "Burden of Guilt" debuff, like you do when a low level dons disjuncted Mountain Plate?

[CSQ]

Did you recieve the "Burden of Guilt" debuff, like you do when a low level dons disjuncted Mountain Plate?

Nope. No penalties (that I can see) besides non-proficiency penalty. It does give me an arcane spell failure penalty, but that's not the end of the world for an SLA/Wand based caster.

[Tyrande]

But, technically, we do have nice things, since it's not WAI and I can use the shield at level 6 (and presumably there are other items that work the same way, since this is random gen and I doubt only one broken item randomly generated). However, it doesn't seem to have a huge combat impact, since my AC is still low enough to keep getting hit and I have maximize and empower on my impulse spells (all Archmage SLAs) so having about 40 extra spell power does very little in the grand scheme of things.

40 extra spell power is better than an epic destiny feat which only gives 30 at level 26!!!

Hey, I don't mind an extra 40 spell power on all my characters...especially at level 6.

Did you file a /bug report ticket?

[CSQ]

Did you file a /bug report ticket?

Not quite yet; I'm trying to test as many things as I can think of (e.g. equipped on relog, unequipped before relog, etc.) to give a thorough description of the issue and how it looks on the player's end. So far, my theory is that AML processes at the moment of login (when it was in my mailbox it displayed as if I could not equip it, too, before being fine in my inventory) which is why it unequips when I log off/in, but after everything settles down the Wonderous Craftsmanship processes, and the minimum level is reduced to 6 because of some impropriety with the celestial characteristic on the shield (the one that provides the minimum level) but I don't know enough about how new loot gen works to understand all the details.

[Graskitch]

omg, that is so funny, I saw that item as well with the ML and AML, and thought it was odd.

but I was afraid/unwilling to buy out just to test it out myself. That is very interesting. To be honest though, it is wondrous craftsmanship, the AML22 may just be a visual bug (as someone mentioned about celestial armor being ML22) -- wondrous craftsmanship items are meant to be breathtaking.

I did have a request though: can you please post a screenshot of how your shield looks like? I want to see if the wondrous craftsmanship gives the shield a unique appearance (which is why I was even considering to buy it in the first place).





I found a +6 Impulsive 101 Heavy Celestial Shield floating around on the market place today. Not too strange in and of itself, but I was searching for level 5-7 gear, so I did a quick double take; although the absolute minimum level was displayed as 22, the actual minimum level was 6. I dropped the requested price for the gear (2 mil plat buyout, but what are you going to spend it on anyway? Might as well do some research) and pulled it onto my wizard to see if it could actually be equipped at the advertised level. Suddenly, my !wizard! broke AC40 at level 6. This is probably not WAI. http://puu.sh/paTEG/800bc309b8.jpg

[Baktiotha]

Players have known this for a long while now and have been selling items like it for huge amounts of plat or shards. You will find you need to re-equip the item each time you log on. The absolute minimum level will cause it to un-equip when you change characters or quit for the day. But, it won't prevent you from using it.

It seems to me that this is another in a long list of broken things that Turbine will almost certainly never get around to fixing. I'm not sure, at this point, that it deserves any punishment of players who make or use such items.

[CSQ]

I did have a request though: can you please post a screenshot of how your shield looks like? I want to see if the wondrous craftsmanship gives the shield a unique appearance (which is why I was even considering to buy it in the first place).

Sure. I took a couple. The Robe of Winter Ice is in the background of the shield, in case you're interested. I don't think it has an unique appearance, but I don't use a ton of heavy wooden shields, so it may be. http://puu.sh/pbO2K/48c56b310b.jpg http://puu.sh/pbOby/253b6aa457.jpg

[CSQ]

Players have known this for a long while now and have been selling items like it for huge amounts of plat or shards. You will find you need to re-equip the item each time you log on. The absolute minimum level will cause it to un-equip when you change characters or quit for the day. But, it won't prevent you from using it.

It seems to me that this is another in a long list of broken things that Turbine will almost certainly never get around to fixing. I'm not sure, at this point, that it deserves any punishment of players who make or use such items.

I mean, punishing players for using a broken loot gen item would be bad. However, fixing it to be proper minimum level is the more likely outcome, and that should probably be done. That said, it's a minor issue (I've played since the F2P beta on and off and this is the first time I've seen an item like this, and it's not actually that overpowered, so there are much bigger fish to fry) and I think if it is a hard issue to solve it's not the end of the world, especially given other issues that deserve more attention.

[Enoach]

That is a nice Level 6 item...

That does seem odd with the AML.

Now I've pulled some very strong ML6 items that would be on par with ML20 random loot and thus very powerful for ML6. But none of those had this AML issue.

[-Samaka-]

This issue arises with Cannith Crafting as well. Disjunct a Celestial item and the min level will drop down to single digits, but a min level of 22 will remain. However, you can craft on the item, the normal level will rise but the min level will stay at 22. You can equip the item and get the seriously over-leveled stats until you log out, as mentioned when you log in the item is automatically unequipped. However, if the item has an augment socket on it and you place an augment in it then the min level will drop from 22 down to the min level of the slotted augment.

I discovered this by accident and I did submit a bug report, though given the sheer number of issues in the game I don't know if this will be fixed or not.

[Tyrande]

Heck, I saw someone put on the ASAH with a great crossbow that still has the Scion of Arborea, i.e. Range Power +20, etc. on it...

Loot goddess, please fix?

[GlassCannon]

Heck, I saw someone put on the ASAH with a great crossbow that still has the Scion of Arborea, i.e. Range Power +20, etc. on it...

Loot goddess, please fix?

The Scion effect is applied by the Character and goes away when you equip it again.

There is an LGS bug where Scion overrides the Enchantment value, permanently breaking the item, but most other things the effect just goes away when you equip it again.

[Faltout]

The Scion effect is applied by the Character and goes away when you equip it again.

There is an LGS bug where Scion overrides the Enchantment value, permanently breaking the item, but most other things the effect just goes away when you equip it again.

Are you sure? I heard that someone that performed an epic reincarnation with the weapon equipped could not remove the effect in any way. (from a thread in the forums)

[Ulfo]

However, if the item has an augment socket on it and you place an augment in it then the min level will drop from 22 down to the min level of the slotted augment.


Not correct. Trying put ML1 augs in slot - min lvl not changed. Put ML16 augs in same slot - min lvl changed from 22 to 16. I'm think here is some limit how many we may lowered min lvl.

[cru121]

Heck, I saw someone put on the ASAH with a great crossbow that still has the Scion of Arborea, i.e. Range Power +20, etc. on it...

Loot goddess, please fix?

from my limited tests "for the sake of science", only the +2 enhancement bonus actually sticks.

[-Samaka-]

Not correct. Trying put ML1 augs in slot - min lvl not changed. Put ML16 augs in same slot - min lvl changed from 22 to 16. I'm think here is some limit how many we may lowered min lvl.

Try an augment that is between level 1 and 16? I know I put both the Medium (ML4) and Heavy (ML8) Fortification augments in the armor I had and it reduced the ML to the appropriate level. Perhaps the ML1 augments are different in some way and thus do not actually cause a reduction in the bugged ML?

[Ulfo]

Try an augment that is between level 1 and 16? I know I put both the Medium (ML4) and Heavy (ML8) Fortification augments in the armor I had and it reduced the ML to the appropriate level. Perhaps the ML1 augments are different in some way and thus do not actually cause a reduction in the bugged ML?

No, but now i'm want try too. 8)

Yea, it's possible. And mebbe ML1 augs bugged same way. 8)

[janave]

We kinda told em before the loot pass that this subset of rand loot will likely bug out.

On the other hand a simple (a)ML fix will make this supposedly 'rare & cool' loot into absolute garbage.

[Eryhn]

We kinda told em before the loot pass that this subset of rand loot will likely bug out.

this gives me some hope that this thread will have no consequence whatsoever. jeezus, people, this is NOT like when primal scream worked in heroics. chill down. nobody for some "I run into 10 annoying bugs a week that never get fixed, i ill take this little quality of life thing with a smirk as compensation" logic? RLY?
not to mention that there is an abundance of more important things to fix and heroics (new content, HE TOEE @ lvl and the odd champ that makes your day when you are snoozing off somewhat excluded) were trivial BEFORE you slapped on that armor or shield already anyways ...


also, irony incoming, beware: these items BTC but as you wear them from 6-14 or from 6-20 even they likely replace 3 OTHER BTC items you dont have to worry about anymore and can trash. Thus, this is actually a feature that combats lag caused by lack of proper database administration.

and what about the fact that nowadays thx to lootcreep there is nothing worthwhile on your epic horns and wheloon endlist anymore and these things give you a little moment of happyness when you get sth useful out of the list for a change ...

[Arkai]

These items are perfectly right for me, since:

a) They are hard to farm (You have to pull an entire chain).
b) Are only usable in heroic Trs.
c) Have no sense at Ml22 since new random loot is clearly better.
d) Are insanely RANDOM. Seriously, you run the chain 3-4 times looking for a Cold Spellpower item and then YOU WANT TO DIE after pulling whatever else.
e) The prices we have paid at astrals aH.

and finally

f) It includes the word wondrous, and like some folk said, it should bang your head to the ground.

[Gremmlynn]

No, but now i'm want try too. 8)

Yea, it's possible. And mebbe ML1 augs bugged same way. 8)I doubt it's a bug so much as pointless to code an AML1 item in the first place. It's not like there are level zero characters that need to be prevented from using them.

As to the bug itself. That's just a simple matter of the AML code from the augment overwriting the AML code from the base item.

[RoberttheBard]

Try an augment that is between level 1 and 16? I know I put both the Medium (ML4) and Heavy (ML8) Fortification augments in the armor I had and it reduced the ML to the appropriate level. Perhaps the ML1 augments are different in some way and thus do not actually cause a reduction in the bugged ML?

They don't have to be bugged at all. Since you can't be below level 1, it may be that the system just ignores that aspect of the augment. This would explain why it works with ML 4 and up, apparently, but not ML 1.