10/6/4 Sorc/Wiz/FvS Undead Shiradi Nuker

[Eth]

I've been getting a lot of questions lately about this build, so I think it's easiest for me to put this together in one thread so I can just refer to this.
This build is updated for U31.

The build is basically based on this https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/462456-The-Gold-Shiradi-Build-Heavy-duty-shiradi-nuker
If you want to know more about the general playstyle of this build and why certain decisions are made, I'd highly recommend reading that first.

The main difference is that this build plays in undead form.


Class split
10/6/4 Sorc/Wiz/FvS

Why 10/6/4 over 9/7/4? Because I don't use the abishai set. That's it. Due to the way the chain missile caster level works I use this split (again read goldis thread for more details).
The only thing I kind of miss is not having DDoor on a caster, which you will not get with this split (well, you can technically but that would give up one of your 2 healing spells).


Race
Originally I told people to use whatever race they want to use for this build. There's no points spent in the racial tree and ability stats hardly matter.
However I found out some things recently concerning end game equipment that make all iconic classes and warforged a seriously suboptimal choice.

Why is that? The most optimal weapons in my opinion are a LGS vacuum weapon + the golden orb of death.
With these weapons you will not get an implement bonus to spellpower. The deciding factor to get an implement bonuses on your weapon is if your weapon has an equipment typed spellpower on it.
LGS weapon have no way to get this (they are enhancement+quality+exceptional). Orbs cannot get implement bonuses either (and the golden orb is hard to replace, since nothing else gives you 5% stacking crits, and you also get 10 spellpower from traditional caster for using an orb).

Anyway, there is a way to get an implement bonus on your LGS weapon.
If you spec into articles of faith in the AoV tree (which we use anyway, how convinient), a weapon that matches your deity weapon becomes an implement.
This is bad for warforged and bladeforged since their deity weapon is a two hander (greatsword) and unfortunately it is also bad for all iconic races, because it is simply broken for them (terbine plis :(...).

So for an optimal race, pick one of the eberron races, go sovereign host and use a longsword as your LGS (or scimitars (elf) or short swords (drow) if you prefer looks over minmaxing).
The best race is human, for the extra skills and bonus feat and I've also found the spellpower boost very convenient.
It doesn't stack with the AoV boost, but since they use different cooldowns you can chain them (and you also simply have 6 boosts more to use).


Why undead form over bladeforged using reconstruct?
Frankly, undead form is superior in every way now. We got a ton of spellpower und more negative healing amp the last couple updates. If you watched some of my videos with this build you may have seen my aura tick on me for over 1K.
Yep, that is a full heal every 3 seconds and you don't even have to actively cast your heals, which leaves you with more time to do what this build does best - DPS.
You also have negative energy burst, which will heal you back to full most of the time. And since we use it from the sorc spell list, it is fast and only has 2 seconds cooldown!
Not having full HP on this build is more of a rarity.
...and then we have the undead traits that make you immune to most forms of CC, which is hard to beat.
Lastly it saves us quite some AP off the racial tree, that can be spent elsewhere.

Starting stats + level ups
Str: not used (make sure you have enough to not reach medium encumberance, which can be easily covered with items alone)
Dex: not used
Int: Max; reflex save, spellpower, DCs for hellball and energy burst
Con: Max; everyone needs HP
Wis: not used (playing in undead form makes all will save based spells targeted against you irrelevant)
Cha: remaining points; spellpoints and UMD

For level ups you can either use Con or Int. I went with Con. If you aim for Int I'd recommend going full out on it and change your gear accordingly (get a +16 and +7 insightful item etc.).
Having energy burst penetrate saves has merit, but it's hard to pull off in end game content.

Skills
Spellcraft
Concentration (you cast most your spells unquickened)
Perform (boosts sonic spellpower)
Heal (boosts negtive spellpower)
Search (to find secret doors)
UMD
Diplo (you need 40 for the good effects of tea with the queen)

Feats
Maximise
Empower
Insightful Reflexes
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Extend
Quicken
Enlarge
Arcane Initiate
if Human: Toughness or Completionist

Wellspring of Power
Master of Knowledge
Spellpower: Force
Ruin
Hellball
Arcane Pulse
Greater Ruin
Scion of the Plane of Fire

Enhancements
http://i.imgur.com/q59aNCi.png

Destiny
http://i.imgur.com/CcQNeNf.png

If you wonder why I use rain of arrows, err... it looks pretty. That's it really.
You can also substitute wild shots for something else. I rarely ever use it.

Twists
Energy Burst or Sense Weakness (depends on the content really)
Empyrean Magic
Endless Faith
Avenging Light (great to keep empyrean magic going when scorching ray is useless)
Interrogation
Honorable mention to primal scream which can be used greatly as an offensive spell which also boosts your HP :) (use it over avenging light when light spells are not relevant)

Spells
http://i.imgur.com/AUzf8bi.png
Wiz: anything you want for buffing
FvS: Level 1 spells are irrelevant. For level 2 pick close wounds, which lets you charge up empyrean magic before fights with ease. You can even use it to heal your fleshy buddys. It's really not bad for that.

Gear
I'll only list my equip for level 30:
Goggles: LGS
Helm: Legendary Pansophic Circlet
Necklace: Epic Noxious Embers
Trinket: Legendary Planar Compass
Cloak: Legendary Earthen Mantle
Belt: Legendary Festering Mummy Wrappings
Ring 1: Lantern Ring
Ring 2: 24 Dire Kinetic Lore + Sonic spellpower
Gloves: Gloves of the Arcane Soldier
Boots: LGS
Bracers: Constitution+Saves
Armor: Robe of the Celestial Sage
Weapon1: 150 negative spellpower + 7 charisma + 37 exceptional negative spellpower legendary vacuum (while we use this mainly for the vacuum effect, note that both negative spellpowers fully stack with everything else)
Weapon2: Golden Orb of Death (138 negative spellpower+meridian fragment)

Recommended Pastlifes
Heroic: Wizard for the active PL, otherwise none (if you are looking for a build that has the least amount of synergy for your completionist, this is your build I guess)
Epic: Energy Criticals (don't forget to turn it off and back on after each relog, otherwise it doesn't work), Skill Mastery, Colors of the Queen

How do I cap this?
Since I recommend eberron races it's a valid point that this split has little synergy in heroics. I just went through a TR on this myself.
If you are in heroics do not use the enhancement and spell list above.
Just play this as a level 10 sorc.
I went fire/acid sorc and took the 10 sorc levels first. Early on pick up the Tier 1 SLAs in both trees and maximise+empower them. Later pick up Fireball+Acid blast and just zerg through everything. Then take the 3 levels of wiz to play in zombie form. Take the 4 FvS levels after this and hope you have a buddy that carries you through 18-20 (thanks Rae :)).
Just kidding, it does OK in heroics, it just gets a bit tougher once you get to around level 18, because the split has little synergy before epics.
Once you go zombie I highly recommend only taking one level 4 spell for healing (I went with death aura) and keep either wall of fire or acid rain, otherwise anything with evasion gives you a hard time.
Once you hit 20 play it as it is supposed to be played. 20 to 30 is a breeze.

[chappyglass]

I'm running a similar setup, just wondering if you have an intel item and where you put it. Ended up putting mine in goggles because of the new helm and cloak.

[Eth]

Just running +8 Int augment since I'm Con based.
Guildy uses an Int based build and I think he uses some random lootgen goggles for it.

[chappyglass]

Ah i see. Do you find mobs save often enough in LE to not bother maxing intel? Makes sense...would love to open my goggles slot for lgs as well.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing, I have a robot and now I am thinking I really want a zombie.

Can you share what other LGS items you found useful to make?

Thanks!

[Eth]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing, I have a robot and now I am thinking I really want a zombie.

Can you share what other LGS items you found useful to make?

Thanks!

I haven't played around much with LGS so far. As for weapons I'm thinking about a salt weapon as a CC option when neccessary.

Equipment is a bit harder to answer because of the set bonuses. Material/Opposition (2% spell crit multi per tier + 3% HP per tier) or Material/Dominion (2% spell crit multi per tier + 3% SP per tier) looks like the best option for the set boni. The picks on the items though really suck.

I'm thinking about adding a third item (bracers seems like the weakest link).
A single SP + Int skills item looks good (this would add 19 spellcraft).
From the calculations I did for my build 3.6 spellpower is roughly equal to 1% crit multi (so it's almost the same as adding another 3 tiers of material item). I just really want those 744 spellpoints I guess...(at least that seems better to me than picking up another 100 HP).

Anyway, need to run more shrouds first...

[Tilomere]

This is very well designed!

[Eth]

Here are some screenies of my spellpowers.
First is without anything but shipbuffs, second is full madhouse with almost everything going (kinda hard to get everything going at the same time....so much temporary stuff):
Min:
http://i.imgur.com/aM4zM0Y.png

Max:
http://i.imgur.com/8Fkk2Bw.png

[EinarMal]

Can you talk about your caster level?

Sorc 10 + 3 Intense Faith +2 Augmentation = 15?
Wizard 6 + 3 Intense Faith + 2 Augmentation = 11?

In the other thread he talks about the importance of having 19 caster levels for chain missile, what am I missing?

[Blue_wizards]

Very nice write up Eth!
Undead certainly have gotten a LOT of love, negative spell power and amplification have soared incredibly high since I planned my original Bladeforged version. This variation is very powerful now days indeed.


Can you talk about your caster level?

Sorc 10 + 3 Intense Faith +2 Augmentation = 15?
Wizard 6 + 3 Intense Faith + 2 Augmentation = 11?

In the other thread he talks about the importance of having 19 caster levels for chain missile, what am I missing?

An update to my build thread is sorely overdue, I intend to update it and make a pro/con comparison between my Bladeforged version and Eth's Undead variation. Regarding your question, CM is the best AoE spell this build (and probably any shiradi build has) and as such it is important to get it's caster level as high as possible.

The Bladeforged 9 sorc/7 wizard/4 fvs sporting both 3 piece Abishai set and Gauntlets of the Arcane Soldier gets to:
Caster level 17 for sorc CM (9 sorc + 3 Abishai + 3 from fvs tier 4 +2 Gauntlets of the Arcane Soldier) and
Caster level 15 for wizard CM (same as sorc minus two levels).

The Undead variation sporting only the Gauntlets of the arcane soldier gets to:
Caster level 15 for sorc CM (10 sorc + 3 from fvs tier 4+ 2 Gaunlets of the Arcane Soldier) and
Caster level 11 for wizard CM (same as sorc minus 4 levels).

Though the Bladeforged version is noticibly ahead in regard to CM caster level it comes with a hefty cost, namely 4 gear slots (3 of which are rubbish) and while good self healing is available to the Bladeforged it is now inferior to the fantastically OP self healing of the undead variation.

I am currently sporting an undead variation and will elaborate upon the two in my thread soonish.

[Eth]

Can you talk about your caster level?

Sorc 10 + 3 Intense Faith +2 Augmentation = 15?
Wizard 6 + 3 Intense Faith + 2 Augmentation = 11?

In the other thread he talks about the importance of having 19 caster levels for chain missile, what am I missing?

Yes, 15 is the max we get on this build, so it's 4 off the maximum. Sure a a build with more wiz levels could easily get to 19 etc., but keep in mind the point of going with sorc levels in the first place. Sorc CM has 2 seconds cooldown, so as long as you are facing more than one mob, CM is the spell you should basically be casting every second time.

I don't value the wiz SLA CM much to be honest. I actually thought about just dropping it entirely by going 11/5/4. That split wouldn't help with CM caster levels but would allow me to pick up double DoTs and DD.


...
Now I'm curious, do you still stick with the abishai set?
Helm and gloves seem pretty set in stone.

Boots and bracers looks like something that could be given up. Replacing the mantle would require a sacrifice to the loot gods and a nice lootgen force spellpower item (ring?) I guess.

[Blue_wizards]

Yup you nailed it.
Bracers, boots and cloak. Ring is a pretty nice catch with +7 insightful con, 34% fire absorption and 151 impulse iirc. Using the 3 piece Abishai set is mostly relavent for the 9/7/4 split and not really worth it for the 10/6/4 which I'm currently on. The tremendous boost to undead healing can't be ignored.

[EinarMal]

Yes, 15 is the max we get on this build, so it's 4 off the maximum. Sure a a build with more wiz levels could easily get to 19 etc., but keep in mind the point of going with sorc levels in the first place. Sorc CM has 2 seconds cooldown, so as long as you are facing more than one mob, CM is the spell you should basically be casting every second time.

I don't value the wiz SLA CM much to be honest. I actually thought about just dropping it entirely by going 11/5/4. That split wouldn't help with CM caster levels but would allow me to pick up double DoTs and DD.


Now I'm curious, do you still stick with the abishai set?
Helm and gloves seem pretty set in stone.

Boots and bracers looks like something that could be given up. Replacing the mantle would require a sacrifice to the loot gods and a nice lootgen force spellpower item (ring?) I guess.

Yea sure, just trying to understand if this has higher DPS compared to just going Wizard 14-15, FVS 4. Is the issue with wizard alone the rotation of spells and not having a chain missile, or magic missile available at all times, or the casting speed of sorc overcomes the loss of caster levels?

How much worse is Wizard 14/FVS 4/XXX 2? You get CMx2, MMx3 with the two SLA all at max level, but slower cast speed and less spell points. Gain wraith form which would be better than zombie?

[Eth]

Yea sure, just trying to understand if this has higher DPS compared to just going Wizard 14-15, FVS 4. Is the issue with wizard alone the rotation of spells and not having a chain missile, or magic missile available at all times, or the casting speed of sorc overcomes the loss of caster levels?

How much worse is Wizard 14/FVS 4/XXX 2? You get CMx2, MMx3 with the two SLA all at max level, but slower cast speed and less spell points. Gain wraith form which would be better than zombie?

Yes, cooldowns and casting time, that's why you play sorcs instead of wizards. Wizards are just slow.

Casting speed: Wiz needs to quicken a lot of spells to stay under 1 sec casting time (otherwise you are already losing DPS). And if you don't use quicken you suffer from the longer delay, because there is a broader window where you can be hit and interrupted. Quickening your spells means less SP efficiency. The only meta I run on my sorc spells is maximise (which costs one SP). This means due to just rewards those spells don't cost anything basically (OK, CM costs 3 or 4 SP).
Putting even one meta on them changes a lot in terms of SP efficiency, even if you reduce it via enhancements.

Cooldowns: Basically, take any 2 sorc spells and you have a full rotation. The advantage of the sorc is you can use everything that's good more often. On the wiz you can make full rotations, but have to substitute for spells that are less good.
A typical AoE rotation would be Arcane Blast (use first for more stacks), CM, CM (SLA), CM, Hellball, CM, Energy Burst, CM.

Having a big heal available every 2 seconds is also pretty good.

[Simpletonmaster]

Would this build still be viable if i use PDK and use heavy mace for implement bonus? Also, how big of a difference will the implement bonus make on the damage output overall for someone that is not going too much into minmaxing

[Eth]

Would this build still be viable if i use PDK and use heavy mace for implement bonus? Also, how big of a difference will the implement bonus make on the damage output overall for someone that is not going too much into minmaxing

You can't use any iconics. Sunelf, deep-gnome, PDK, shadar-kai all have that bug.
Implement is 3 x weapon modifier, so for LGS it's 3 x 14 = 42 (quite a bit actually).

I mean you don't have to use LGS+orb. If someone else in your party can cover vulnerability you can just use some other stick that just gives you implement bonus anyway.
I'd really recommend vacuum for solo play though. Up to 20% extra damage is no joke.

If you want to use iconics anyway, I'd recommend deepgnome because that doesn't require you to use a +1 heart.

[SeveredSteel]

Is the 6th wizard level even necessary? I mean, MM and CM is a 2 second rotation on this build. Eight seconds for CM SLA and 6 for MM SLA seems to be something that will never really need to be used. What spells would you take with the 11th sorc level? I'm thinking :

3rd. Lightning Bolt.
4th. Ice Storm.
5th. Eldar's Surge

What would you give up for a 4 piece LGS set bonus? Boots, Cloak, Goggles, and Bracers? For 5 set bonus? Maybe the Gloves?

[Simpletonmaster]

You can't use any iconics. Sunelf, deep-gnome, PDK, shadar-kai all have that bug.
Implement is 3 x weapon modifier, so for LGS it's 3 x 14 = 42 (quite a bit actually).

I mean you don't have to use LGS+orb. If someone else in your party can cover vulnerability you can just use some other stick that just gives you implement bonus anyway.
I'd really recommend vacuum for solo play though. Up to 20% extra damage is no joke.

If you want to use iconics anyway, I'd recommend deepgnome because that doesn't require you to use a +1 heart.

Thx for the reply I decided to go human. Just had one more question. Is it better to go in vampire form instead of zombie as I wont take the charisma and int hit? Thank You

[Eth]

Is the 6th wizard level even necessary? I mean, MM and CM is a 2 second rotation on this build. Eight seconds for CM SLA and 6 for MM SLA seems to be something that will never really need to be used. What spells would you take with the 11th sorc level? I'm thinking :

3rd. Lightning Bolt.
4th. Ice Storm.
5th. Eldar's Surge


I already pondered about 11/5/4 some posts earlier. Definitely something to think about. It's a fair trade-off.




What would you give up for a 4 piece LGS set bonus? Boots, Cloak, Goggles, and Bracers? For 5 set bonus? Maybe the Gloves?
Pretty much, yes.

As I said in an ealier post, one triple material item is roughly equal to 21 spellpower. Considering everything else on the item is pretty useless (except the HP set bonus), I'm not really convinced by LGS.

No idea about 5 set - how good is the effect? Giving up the gloves seems rough. Losing 2 more CLs. You also need to put spellcraft somewhere. Even slotting a +15 seems tough, since LGS has no slots to begin with.




Thx for the reply I decided to go human. Just had one more question. Is it better to go in vampire form instead of zombie as I wont take the charisma and int hit? Thank You

For Int based builds I would say so. It's just one AP swap. You get +2 Int, +6 Cha, -2 Con, +2 Str and take 300% light damage instead of 200%.
Be careful with the giants in Tempest's Spine, they can cast searing light (around 1200 damage on LE in vampire form IIRC).

Other light damage sources are usually low enough that the belt can take care of it alone pretty well. Light Resistance applies before vulnerability multiplier from what I can tell, so it does a lot of work.

[Raezar]

Nice post, Piker. Tr'ing my caster lol. Lets have some fun! :)

[Eth]

Nice post, Piker. Tr'ing my caster lol. Lets have some fun! :)

About time, one step closer to the 12 zombie raid! *evil laughter*

I'll be back in a week or two, don't worry (having to much fun atm couch-cooping through Divinity Original Sin with a friend).

[SeveredSteel]

I
As I said in an ealier post, one triple material item is roughly equal to 21 spellpower. Considering everything else on the item is pretty useless (except the HP set bonus), I'm not really convinced by LGS.

No idea about 5 set - how good is the effect? Giving up the gloves seems rough. Losing 2 more CLs. You also need to put spellcraft somewhere. Even slotting a +15 seems tough, since LGS has no slots to begin with.
I figured relying on potency helm to cover all spellpower slots and freeing up the slot in orb/rings for stats due to having lgs set. The loss is 18~ spellpower but lgs set is giving 20~ to all spells crit multiplier = 70 universal spellpower, some spellcraft, and additional 30 crit multi to one element.

Gloves are not essential, imo, it's 16 projectiles every 2 seconds vs 14. I don't know how good ender is. Hope it has no cooldown similar to vacuum and radiance procs.

A setup suggested by someone was :

1 - all mat/opp
2 - all mat/opp
3 - all mat/opp
4
dom/eth
esc/eth
mat/opp (or blank)
5
esc/eth
dom/eth
mat/opp (or blank)

giving :
Max +22% hp (6 + 2*opp augs)
Max +21% spell crit to all (7 + 2*mat augs)
3 big resists or all neg / all pos / and one big resist (mix and match)
Additional +30% spell crit for one element
+int skills and spell points (for spellcraft boost)
Ender

[Eth]

A setup suggested by someone was :

1 - all mat/opp
2 - all mat/opp
3 - all mat/opp
4
dom/eth
esc/eth
mat/opp (or blank)
5
esc/eth
dom/eth
mat/opp (or blank)

giving :
Max +22% hp (6 + 2*opp augs)
Max +21% spell crit to all (7 + 2*mat augs)
3 big resists or all neg / all pos / and one big resist (mix and match)
Additional +30% spell crit for one element
+int skills and spell points (for spellcraft boost)
Ender

Interesting.
Is this theory or does a setup like that actually work, mixing the items like that? There were some issues with different LGS tiers that would cancel the set bonus?

What rings would you use? Lantern ring is another thing I wouldn't want to give up.

[SeveredSteel]

Interesting.
Is this theory or does a setup like that actually work, mixing the items like that? There were some issues with different LGS tiers that would cancel the set bonus?

What rings would you use? Lantern ring is another thing I wouldn't want to give up.

I was told the 4 set was tested. However if the 5th piece does not grant the bonus then it will have to be swapped to all material/opposition. Not a big deal to me since by the time I have cleansed 4 items I should have tons of larges to craft various augments. They're also bta and I can gift to my alts. Not the worst thing in the world.

If ender does not have a cooldown, I would consider swapping out vacuum for radiance. The ender proc should act as a better vacuum in that case because if under 5k hp it will instakill instead of giving vulnerable stacks.

I wouldn't give up lantern ring, just swap out augments that increase spellpower and items with spellpower suffix for something else. Perhaps false life, insightful prr, protection, dexterity would be the options on ring suffix. Can then slot heal, balance, and perform augments in the freed up slots. Can also get blindness immunity, deathblock, and fear immunity on negative mat/opp item on lgs from tier 1 through 3. Not a total loss of everything for the lgs set. I guess much easier for shiradi and warlocks to get away with this than other builds.

[Edwardt]

Thx for the reply I decided to go human. Just had one more question. Is it better to go in vampire form instead of zombie as I wont take the charisma and int hit? Thank You
For Int based builds I would say so. It's just one AP swap. You get +2 Int, +6 Cha, -2 Con, +2 Str and take 300% light damage instead of 200%.
Be careful with the giants in Tempest's Spine, they can cast searing light (around 1200 damage on LE in vampire form IIRC).

Other light damage sources are usually low enough that the belt can take care of it alone pretty well. Light Resistance applies before vulnerability multiplier from what I can tell, so it does a lot of work.

Finally I play a tweak of this build, too and went Int based. Probably because it's hard-wired from all those DC caster lifes and the way you have to play on Wayfinder.
The only thing you'll find pretty much annoying in a vampire form is the light damage you take.
Like Eth said the giants in legTS and also the drow priestress in CitW can give you a hard time. Especially when you are soloing it ee and you're the only traget to cast divine punishment on it can hurt. In this case I swap to craped pants zombie and fry their brains.. or at least try it.

[Saekee]

Finally I play a tweak of this build, too and went Int based. Probably because it's hard-wired from all those DC caster lifes and the way you have to play on Wayfinder.
The only thing you'll find pretty much annoying in a vampire form is the light damage you take.
Like Eth said the giants in legTS and also the drow priestress in CitW can give you a hard time. Especially when you are soloing it ee and you're the only traget to cast divine punishment on it can hurt. In this case I swap to craped pants zombie and fry their brains.. or at least try it.

vamp form pretty much necessitates a twist of Embrace the light(tier 2 Exalted Angel: Passive Bonus: You take +[10/20/30]% less light damage.)

[Joinaxx]

Material/Opposition (2% spell crit multi per tier + 3% HP per tier) or Material/Dominion (2% spell crit multi per tier + 3% SP per tier) looks like the best option for the set boni. The picks on the items though really suck.

I'm thinking about adding a third item (bracers seems like the weakest link).


I thought the material spell crit bonus only kicks in for 4+ LGS set (per DDO wiki)? Or can you get them with just a 2 piece set?

[Eth]

I thought the material spell crit bonus only kicks in for 4+ LGS set (per DDO wiki)? Or can you get them with just a 2 piece set?

Correct, that part of my comment is nonsense. :)
You'd only get the HP bonus.

[Vanhooger]

Hey Eth, I still don't get how you get that crazy self healing. I just copied you're build, same equip and still too far from the number I see on you're videos. Any tip?

[Eth]

Hey Eth, I still don't get how you get that crazy self healing. I just copied you're build, same equip and still too far from the number I see on you're videos. Any tip?

The death aura here abuses the way spells work in DDO. DC, Spell Pen, Spellpower, Crit Percent, Crit Power is all used at the time you cast the spell and it keeps that for the entire duration of the spell.

You want to cast your death aura when you have the most power going (Arcane Surpremacy, MoK stacks, empyrean, etc.).
If you always hit your death aura during supremacy, it is also much easier to keep track when your next supremacy comes off timer (at least that's how I keep track of it).

[Vanhooger]

The death aura here abuses the way spells work in DDO. DC, Spell Pen, Spellpower, Crit Percent, Crit Power is all used at the time you cast the spell and it keeps that for the entire duration of the spell.

You want to cast your death aura when you have the most power going (Arcane Surpremacy, MoK stacks, empyrean, etc.).
If you always hit your death aura during supremacy, it is also much easier to keep track when your next supremacy comes off timer (at least that's how I keep track of it).

Well, I never thought of that. Thanks, now it does explain the difference. Thanks!

[Vanhooger]

Sorry one more question...you got 138 negative spell power on the orb, but does it stack with the new potency helmet? I know that the LGS does stack but potency and normal item/augment do not stack, or am I wrong, something has changed recently?

[Eth]

Sorry one more question...you got 138 negative spell power on the orb, but does it stack with the new potency helmet? I know that the LGS does stack but potency and normal item/augment do not stack, or am I wrong, something has changed recently?

That's actually a good point. It is indeed only giving me 7 negative spellpower.
But then I don't really know what to do with the slot. There aren't any other interesting augments I could think of.

[Vanhooger]

But then I don't really know what to do with the slot. There aren't any other interesting augments I could think of.

That's indeed another good point.

[lotterholt]

Going con are you going to really have enough int to make insightful reflexes worth it in EE? maybe drop it and enlarge or something for mobile spellcasting so I do not have to keep jumping to try and maintain movement? Also curious on thought about Intensify Spell?

[Eth]

Going con are you going to really have enough int to make insightful reflexes worth it in EE? maybe drop it and enlarge or something for mobile spellcasting so I do not have to keep jumping to try and maintain movement? Also curious on thought about Intensify Spell?

I find the reflex good enough honestly. For fights where you really need reflex (ToEE endfight - earthquake for example) you can always use twists (unearthly reactions) or make a few gearswaps (not going Int based doesn't mean you can't use Int items ;)).

Itensify simply has no space. If you go through the epic feats you can only replace Wellspring, MoK, Ruin or GRuin for it. I wouldn't replace any of those.

[Ilindith]

Finally acquired the armor yesterday for this and never thought the Deathblock effect would have been coded dumb enough to affect people in undead form but sadly it does.

Really feeling the 27% absorb. Burst went from 580-700 down to 430-530 with no stacks/crits.

Is there any way to mitigate that effect that I am unaware of?

[lotterholt]

So, gear layout includes the lantern ring, would it be worth trying to work in the Resonation necklace?

[silinteresting]

So, gear layout includes the lantern ring, would it be worth trying to work in the Resonation necklace?

if you are using eth's set up then in the next update there is a ring that gives 15% crit to all spells.
so if you swapped out the ring he has for this and slotted resonation it would work.

the problem you have tho is the resonation proc worth what your giving up to slot it ? thats for
each person to decide but for myself i dont know.....

hope eth dont mind me answering there but i have been pondering the same thing.

your friend sil :)

[Eth]

Finally acquired the armor yesterday for this and never thought the Deathblock effect would have been coded dumb enough to affect people in undead form but sadly it does.

Really feeling the 27% absorb. Burst went from 580-700 down to 430-530 with no stacks/crits.

Is there any way to mitigate that effect that I am unaware of?

Sorry I should update the gear. Best to avoid this issue is using the robe instead. It has Deathblock instead of Deathblock IX.

[Eth]

So, gear layout includes the lantern ring, would it be worth trying to work in the Resonation necklace?

As soon as they add better ways to slot 17% universal crit. TF is an option, but in practise weapon swapping just costs you DPS.

The 15% crit. ring in the next update doesn't help much. I wouldn't want to give up a dire ring either.

[Ellihor]

I just hit lv 29 today with that build... lvling since 1. I can say the high heroics were.. bad. Anyways, in epics I also found myself dying quite some. Did the CON version and had about 50 PRR (char only has 3x divine and 1x pdk). So now at 29 I'm using the Devil's Commander boots while I'm still looking for the Planar Compass (too bad I probably trashed it maned times).

Anyways today I just tried the build on LE Shroud and it was kind of bad. I was already excepting kinda low survivability but I didn't do as much DPS as I excepted. Maybe lv 30 Scion of Fire kicks in does more difference. But I don't have the GS stuff, going to craft them soon. I wonder if it isn't better to have a vacuum GS + corrosive salt dot GS instead of vacuum + golden orb?

BTW this is my first time trying a shiradi, so, noob question: what metas go on the non-sla magic missiles?

[Eth]

I just hit lv 29 today with that build... lvling since 1. I can say the high heroics were.. bad. Anyways, in epics I also found myself dying quite some. Did the CON version and had about 50 PRR (char only has 3x divine and 1x pdk). So now at 29 I'm using the Devil's Commander boots while I'm still looking for the Planar Compass (too bad I probably trashed it maned times).
Anyways today I just tried the build on LE Shroud and it was kind of bad.
You won't hit more than about 100 PRR without making bigger sacrifices somewhere.
I have around 1200HP. This is still one shot territory against an orthon.
If I could get a +7 insight con and make an opposition set I could get over 1500.
Your best defense is to not get hit in the first place (good luck with lag). Most harder hitting melees in LE will get you killed.



I was already excepting kinda low survivability but I didn't do as much DPS as I excepted. Maybe lv 30 Scion of Fire kicks in does more difference. But I don't have the GS stuff, going to craft them soon. I wonder if it isn't better to have a vacuum GS + corrosive salt dot GS instead of vacuum + golden orb?

Just try to get used to the build and what works nicely where. The DPS it can push out is bonkers. It will get better the more experience you have playing it.
...and yes - gear is very relevant and 30 helps a lot.

Haven't tried salt, but I prefer DPS usually anyway.



BTW this is my first time trying a shiradi, so, noob question: what metas go on the non-sla magic missiles?

I only use maximise on heroic spells (which only costs 1 SP anyway). Other metas get turned on as needed (empower when you can dump SP, enlarge for certain encounters, quicken for high incoming damage stuff).

[Eth]

Since CM is casting with the maximum missiles regardless of caster level you could do 10 wiz, then 4 FVS, and 6 sorc last just for level 20 shiradi use.

This would grant an extra heroic feat (I'd take shield deflection). It would also grant an easier time leveling (level as archmage/pm with faster undead form self healing and superior force over savant damage type, as well as more spell slots for DDoor and others.

This will let you self heal in heroics at level 3 instead of 13, totally ignore all the elemental immune mobs and champion elemental resists, and let you double stack maximize and empower reduced cost enhancement metamagics earlier since you can take fvs after wiz. This will let you blow heroics apart with acid cloud and firewall additional spell slots.

It will also grant better heroic mana efficiency, since FVS just rewards will fuel off AM slas, and you can get it at level 12.

It will also grant better DCs and mana in heroics, since you were going max Int, for even better damage. Leveling with max int as a sorc is ew.

Plus you get even more damage by stacking the FVS force spell power/crit/lvls right after wiz levels for all your force dmg SLAs.

And more damage from wiz bonus feats earlier, and a skeleton pet.

Last, your self healing and even damage in heroics will be vastly improved, since you can cast your auras with AM supremacy up, and using the AM/PM trees to power them.

The only drawback is that NEB will have a longer cool down?

I was going off wiki which could be wrong on CM CL. But it doesn't seem to matter much since you are trading Sorc CL for Wiz ones.

Regardless, I remain massively impressed by the creativity of this build. I really like that if I make an electric/int vacuum LGS weapon for electric critzilla I can swap it over to this build and use lightning EB twist.

PS: Have you considered dire charge/kta > lightning EB on a max int build version? Electric Critzilla will be around 115 dc next patch.

---------------------------


Oh, whatever you double reduce cost on goes on your non-sla missiles. At least maximize. Possibly empower as well, depending on setup. I'll prob use vacuum/skyvault.

With only 6 sorc levels I think you'd be better off to trade all of them for wizard or some warlock.
On CM, this explains it pretty well...

Chain missile is by far the most effective spell for a shiradi while clearing packs of enemies since it hits multiple enemies multiple times each. So for number of procs sake shooting a single chain missile into a pack of mobs would be equivalent to hitting the pack of mobs with 6-10 fire balls. Seemingly when you are facing two adjacent targets and hit one of them with chain missile the other target will sustain 10 hits regardless of your caster level (if the target doesn't have enough hp it will only sustain a number of hits that finish it off so testing this on a waterworks kobold isn't a good idea). The interesting part happens when there are 3 or more targets and that is where caster level comes to play and in a big way. It's hard to say exactly how it works especially since it seems that different targets effected from the same spell are hit a different number of times but the higher your caster level the more hits each mob will take and so maxing it out is crucial.


Dire charge would be a question of boss DPS vs trash DPS, since you lose arcane pulse. I personally find the build is already clearing trash packs so quickly that I don't really see any reason to go for dire charge, much less so since you have to put a lot of regearing into it, which will cost you elsewhere.

[Tilomere]

With only 6 sorc levels I think you'd be better off to trade all of them for wizard or some warlock.
On CM, this explains it pretty well...

Dire charge would be a question of boss DPS vs trash DPS, since you lose arcane pulse. I personally find the build is already clearing trash packs so quickly that I don't really see any reason to go for dire charge, much less so since you have to put a lot of regearing into it, which will cost you elsewhere.

Mmm sounds like CM testing time. I'll test it out of shiradi with scrolls on my arti and just read the combat log to see how many hits it is doing to groups. I'm looking for a way to have smooth leveling 1-30 since I won't stay at cap. Maybe they programmed in the small AoE that MM has in PnP.

[Eth]

I'm looking for a way to have smooth leveling 1-30 since I won't stay at cap.
Not sure if this is a build you should be looking at then. If you just want the past lifes there are better builds to get there.

If you really want to play a shiradi though you should look into splits that synergize with the abishai set regarding CLs. I used my set all the way from 20-28 in any case.

[Ellihor]

Since CM is casting with the maximum missiles regardless of caster level you could do 10 wiz, then 4 FVS, and 6 sorc last just for level 20 shiradi use.

This would grant an extra heroic feat (I'd take shield deflection). It would also grant an easier time leveling (level as archmage/pm with faster undead form self healing and superior force over savant damage type, as well as more spell slots for DDoor and others.

Are the magic missiles any good at heroics? I just did with fire and on high heroics changed for acid. And the chain may be bugged, but the single target mm is not so I think 10 sorc is the best.

BTW how is critzilla going, have you capped it already? I want to play something different... your build could be that possibly

[Ellihor]

You won't hit more than about 100 PRR without making bigger sacrifices somewhere.
I have around 1200HP. This is still one shot territory against an orthon.
If I could get a +7 insight con and make an opposition set I could get over 1500.
Your best defense is to not get hit in the first place (good luck with lag). Most harder hitting melees in LE will get you killed.


Just try to get used to the build and what works nicely where. The DPS it can push out is bonkers. It will get better the more experience you have playing it.
...and yes - gear is very relevant and 30 helps a lot.

I'm used to run arround on 100PRR/1.2k pure wizard so I should be good than. I guess the bigger difference is that on shiradi you are casting 24/7, and as a first timer I messed up (of course ¬¬) and couldn't take the mobile spellcasting feat because of DEX requirement. Will ETR to fix that. Do you mind sharing what's your sitting force and negative spellpower (I mean, without anything, just logged in, check the sheet), just to know if I'm doing something wrong?

[Eth]

I'm used to run arround on 100PRR/1.2k pure wizard so I should be good than. I guess the bigger difference is that on shiradi you are casting 24/7, and as a first timer I messed up (of course ¬¬) and couldn't take the mobile spellcasting feat because of DEX requirement. Will ETR to fix that. Do you mind sharing what's your sitting force and negative spellpower (I mean, without anything, just logged in, check the sheet), just to know if I'm doing something wrong?

Check post 8. I don't think anything really changed since I took those screens.

Also note that earthen mantle is bugged at the moment (those screenshots are with it equipped).
The force spellpower shows on the sheet, but doesn't actually apply.
Unless you have some really awesome random lootgen force spellpower gear, which is pretty much rings only, there's no good way to put it currently.
Sounds like they fix it next update though. Not changing my gear.

[Phil7]

Not sure if this is a build you should be looking at then. If you just want the past lifes there are better builds to get there.

Good if there is a build that's faster and easier than #PL Class#/warlock/#Iconic Class# to gather past lives with, I'd really love to know about it.
Just to make my life easier :)

[Tilomere]

With only 6 sorc levels I think you'd be better off to trade all of them for wizard or some warlock.
On CM, this explains it pretty well...




My testing says blue_wizards is wrong.

You may want to move this build off these forums. It is like the wolf builds, getting more hits than it is supposed to.

[Atheok]

My testing says blue_wizards is wrong.

You may want to move this build off these forums. It is like the wolf builds, getting more hits than it is supposed to.

Good test u got there. I guess I should swap my CM spell since I can buy CM scrolls these days...

[kgoodson3]

My testing says blue_wizards is wrong.

You may want to move this build off these forums. It is like the wolf builds, getting more hits than it is supposed to.

This used to be the case, but an update in the past 20 months or so (don't remember which one) changed it to the way BlueWizards and Eth described. Perhaps it has reverted back?

[Eth]

You may want to move this build off these forums. It is like the wolf builds, getting more hits than it is supposed to.

You mean like back when U22 was on lamma and I posted several videos on how broken SWF makes wolfs? Boy did they fix that quickly.

No, but seriously, what was your testing process? I just tried it and I don't see what you described happening at all. Neither with scrolls nor with the actual spell.

[Blastyswa]

I was wondering what advantages the 10/6/4 split has over a 9/9/2. I ran a version of this build back before PMs were good, and tried it again recently, and vastly preferred the 9/9/2 split, which keeps full MM caster levels without having to dump so many enhancement points into Angel of Vengeance. On my version, I actually was able to pick up Vampire Form, the same archmage enhancements you have, and 23 points into cold savant. With significant investment in cold lore abilities, I was able to get 75% passive cold crit, and 100% during arcane supremacy, which makes for some awesome Niac's Cold Rays and Energy Burst's. In addition, 9/9/2 keeps Just Reward, Scourge, and Articles of Faith, has 2 more level 4 spells and 1 more level 5 spell (From wizard instead of sorc, but can take both NEB and Death aura from sorc and DD from wizard). I also found that it was incredibly easy to keep up 10 stacks of Empyrean Magic using quick Cure minor wound casting at the start of the quest and avenging light hellball or scorching ray throughout the quest.

Is there any other advantage to 10/6/4 that I'm missing?

[SeveredSteel]

Is there any other advantage to 10/6/4 that I'm missing?

Over a 9sor/9wiz/2fvs? Smiting lines from FvS for an extra 4% crit chance and 10 USP.

[Blue_wizards]

Over a 9sor/9wiz/2fvs? Smiting lines from FvS for an extra 4% crit chance and 10 USP.

And caster level 11 instead of 15 for your sorc CM which is considerable.
Cold spell power is one of your least important damage contributors on a shiradi. Air savant would be a better choise as it effects your sonic sp and crit chance which is one of your main shiradi procs.

Losing 4 caster levels, spell power and crit chance of your best damage contributors in favor of minute gains is just weakening the build in an objective way.

[Ellihor]

Over a 9sor/9wiz/2fvs? Smiting lines from FvS for an extra 4% crit chance and 10 USP.

Also that's assuming the chain missiles are really bugged and you get max procs regardless of caster lv. Tilo says it is, Eth says it isn't, anyone else teste?

[Blastyswa]

Over a 9sor/9wiz/2fvs? Smiting lines from FvS for an extra 4% crit chance and 10 USP.

Well, assuming you put the AP from AoV into a different caster tree, the USP loss is pretty low. 4% crit chance doesn't seem worth the large AP investment, considering how much filler is required to get to 20 AP invested.

[Blastyswa]

Also that's assuming the chain missiles are really bugged and you get max procs regardless of caster lv. Tilo says it is, Eth says it isn't, anyone else teste?

From what I've seen chain missiles don't seem to give any extra hits with higher caster levels. This was just based on rounding up mobs and recording chain missile attacks with and without my Arcane Soldier gloves on one life (Difference was from 14-16 caster levels). Both before and after equipping the gloves, the same number of proc missiles occurred.

[Blastyswa]

And caster level 11 instead of 15 for your sorc CM which is considerable.
Cold spell power is one of your least important damage contributors on a shiradi. Air savant would be a better choise as it effects your sonic sp and crit chance which is one of your main shiradi procs.

Losing 4 caster levels, spell power and crit chance of your best damage contributors in favor of minute gains is just weakening the build in an objective way.

I'm fairly certain the caster levels don't actually effect sorc CM; meaning that I haven't seen anyone's testing that firmly validates that it does, and my own testing invalidates it. I do agree that Air Savant is a good choice; the main reasons I went cold were that a lot of enemies right now in top end content are vulnerable against cold, while many are non vulnerable, resistant, or immune to electric, and Niac's Cold Ray hits like a tank shell if your critical chance is high enough for it to crit a vast majority of the time (Was getting arcane supremacy blasts of it for 10k damage). 4% force crit loss and a minor loss in spellpower (Get universal spellpower of .75 per AP in cold savant compared to AoV's 1) doesn't feel worth losing such a big bonus to energy burst/Niac's (And snowball swarm I suppose, I ended up getting 8% cold crit and 1 rank of snowball swarm SLA on my build, snowball was hitting decent but nothing insane, low 4 digits).

[Blue_wizards]

Well, assuming you put the AP from AoV into a different caster tree, the USP loss is pretty low. 4% crit chance doesn't seem worth the large AP investment, considering how much filler is required to get to 20 AP invested.

I am not sure what you consider to be a filler. AoV is a fantastic tree for casters and especially for the Shiradi builds, every bit of it.
For each AP you get 1 usp, smite line, spell power boost, stacking maximize sp discount, just rewards, scourge, intense faith. All of these are solid


From what I've seen chain missiles don't seem to give any extra hits with higher caster levels. This was just based on rounding up mobs and recording chain missile attacks with and without my Arcane Soldier gloves on one life (Difference was from 14-16 caster levels). Both before and after equipping the gloves, the same number of proc missiles occurred.

Seems like a very poor way to get to any solid conclusion IMO, given it is a hard spell to test due to it's nature.


I'm fairly certain the caster levels don't actually effect sorc CM; meaning that I haven't seen anyone's testing that firmly validates that it does, and my own testing invalidates it. I do agree that Air Savant is a good choice; the main reasons I went cold were that a lot of enemies right now in top end content are vulnerable against cold, while many are non vulnerable, resistant, or immune to electric, and Niac's Cold Ray hits like a tank shell if your critical chance is high enough for it to crit a vast majority of the time (Was getting arcane supremacy blasts of it for 10k damage). 4% force crit loss and a minor loss in spellpower (Get universal spellpower of .75 per AP in cold savant compared to AoV's 1) doesn't feel worth losing such a big bonus to energy burst/Niac's (And snowball swarm I suppose, I ended up getting 8% cold crit and 1 rank of snowball swarm SLA on my build, snowball was hitting decent but nothing insane, low 4 digits).

I have played this build with several iterations for a long period of time before I posted it, the difference of CM caster level was very evident to me and I've shown in many different quests/raids the capabilities of this build (and so have others as well). I hate to say "trust me" but trust me it plays a major .role

I recommend that for testing you try a legendary quest packed with mobs (say "search and rescue") either without using shrines or with using them and recording how much sp you got back from each rest. Compare completion time/resources spent (sp back from shrines) of a run with gloves +AoV intense faith and a run without. Your current build should show a difference though a smaller one.

Regardless of the results, play whatever you enjoy most and if you enjoy a different variation better then wonderful. Regarding potency of the build I have to stand by 10/6/4.

P.S.
Niac is a level 1 save or nothing spell, not something I'd build around.

[SeveredSteel]

Well, assuming you put the AP from AoV into a different caster tree, the USP loss is pretty low. 4% crit chance doesn't seem worth the large AP investment, considering how much filler is required to get to 20 AP invested.

There isn't any filler in AoV. Smiting lines, Scourge, Just Rewards, Maximize reduction, and spell power boost all directly add to dps.

As far as CM testing : it's quite complicated to test, imo. Hard to count how many hits are generated in a large packs of mobs. My own experience on an old FvS Shiradi was that my spell point consumption decreased after equipping Abishai 3pc and Arcane gloves. Going from cl 9 to cl 13 seemed noticeable. Could be that I just got lucky with better procs or more procs overall. I tested soloing Tracker's Trap on EE a bunch of times. Not the best test, but it seemed to make sense to me. On my Wiz Shiradi with cl 17 I tried recently testing CM count in epic orchard, being out of shiradi destiny, no colors toggle, no lantern ring/resonation. I stopped after a few tries as it was really hard for me to count hits on multiple mobs. I should have recorded.... Maybe I will again and see what I get sometime. But I don't have the inclination to atm due to making the undead shiradi and needing to finish it up, and also leveling a new warlock.

Cold damage does sound good, but I opted for electric to increase prismatic spray, lightning bolt, and hellball. The cold proc on hellball is only on a saved cast. While I'm sure many mobs save often in LE, the chance of them not saving and not getting the cold proc put me off of it.

[Tilomere]

I recommend that for testing you try a legendary quest packed with mobs

Are you sure you aren't confusing a small AoE effected that is unlisted (like druid fire seeds) with CL (probably first projectile)? Or, if you are talking about quest completions, the more likely suspect shiradi proc caster levels?

I'll test this next month sometime.

[Blue_wizards]

Are you sure you aren't confusing a small AoE effected that is unlisted (like druid fire seeds) with CL (probably first projectile)? Or, if you are talking about quest completions, the more likely suspect shiradi proc caster levels?

I'll test this next month sometime.

My first thought was "what?" but then I read again and came to the same conclusion ;)
Shiradi procs aren't effected by caster level. Not sure what you mean by unlisted AoE effect.

Try what I suggested to see for yourself.

[Tilomere]

Shiradi procs aren't effected by caster level.

Many of the damaging ones are arcane effects (http://ddowiki.com/page/Double_Rainbow). I would expect arcane caster level gear to speed clear times even if you were playing a pure 20 arcane.

If you pack mobs close enough together, some spells are revealed to be small AoE effects. I don't know if it is collision detection or how the spell is intended. I never tested CM.

I guess it doesn't really matter, since I was going to do the Wiz version anyways. No way in hell I'm leveling a fleshy half level int based sorc through heroics!

[Ellihor]

Just try to get used to the build and what works nicely where. The DPS it can push out is bonkers. It will get better the more experience you have playing it.
...and yes - gear is very relevant and 30 helps a lot.

Thanks. I just crafted the Vacuum Sword yesterday and I was like OMG. The difference was huge, in the aura too. By the way on the Goldmoon's thread he lists +7 insight int item, where is that slotted? I'm just curious how are you getting 62/62 int and con because I did the con version and I'm at 52/64 int/con. Also, is the Hellball Dc affected by evocation items or is it only really 20+mod like the description?

[Blue_wizards]

Many of the damaging ones are arcane effects (http://ddowiki.com/page/Double_Rainbow). I would expect arcane caster level gear to speed clear times even if you were playing a pure 20 arcane.

If you pack mobs close enough together, some spells are revealed to be small AoE effects. I don't know if it is collision detection or how the spell is intended. I never tested CM.

I guess it doesn't really matter, since I was going to do the Wiz version anyways. No way in hell I'm leveling a fleshy half level int based sorc through heroics!

Double Rainbow is only part of the procs shiradi spells have and on its long list of effects only 4 are actual spells which I doubt are coded to use the originating spell caster level and even if they are it would have a very small impact.

Regarding the small AoE effect you are talking about, if it does in fact exist I don't see how it has anything to do with CM number of missiles being affected by caster level.

I understand your reluctance to go through heroics on this build, but you only kinda struggle at levels 18-20 and with some friends/ iconic warlock alt it's not much of a hurdle.


Thanks. I just crafted the Vacuum Sword yesterday and I was like OMG. The difference was huge, in the aura too. By the way on the Goldmoon's thread he lists +7 insight int item, where is that slotted? I'm just curious how are you getting 62/62 int and con because I did the con version and I'm at 52/64 int/con. Also, is the Hellball Dc affected by evocation items or is it only really 20+mod like the description?

On my build details I don't have a +7 insight int item just a +2 insightful int augment. I think you are confusing the +7 level up points in my breakdown for +7 insightful (my build puts level up points in int rather in con). I do have a +7 insightful con ring with some other useful stuff on it.

[Ellihor]

On my build details I don't have a +7 insight int item just a +2 insightful int augment. I think you are confusing the +7 level up points in my breakdown for +7 insightful (my build puts level up points in int rather in con). I do have a +7 insightful con ring with some other useful stuff on it.

I confused with const. I hope we can craft a 23% kinetic +7 const inisght ring in U32

[Blue_wizards]

I confused with const. I hope we can craft a 23% kinetic +7 const inisght ring in U32

It can drop ;)

http://i.imgur.com/vqYjqtQ.png

[Ellihor]

It can drop ;)

Yes but never for me!

[Blastyswa]

I am not sure what you consider to be a filler. AoV is a fantastic tree for casters and especially for the Shiradi builds, every bit of it.
For each AP you get 1 usp, smite line, spell power boost, stacking maximize sp discount, just rewards, scourge, intense faith. All of these are solid

Main one's I consider filler are stacking maximize sp discount, as with just reward I have never, in any situation aside from CiTW, in all my time spent playing any shiradi missile build, actually ran out of SP without using maximize sp discount. And Intense Faith, again according to my own testing of it, doesn't really effect anything if your caster levels are 9+.



Seems like a very poor way to get to any solid conclusion IMO, given it is a hard spell to test due to it's nature.

I recommend that for testing you try a legendary quest packed with mobs (say "search and rescue") either without using shrines or with using them and recording how much sp you got back from each rest. Compare completion time/resources spent (sp back from shrines) of a run with gloves +AoV intense faith and a run without. Your current build should show a difference though a smaller one.

Chain Missile's isn't variable per cast though; I was consistently seeing 10 missiles coming out regardless of caster level. Given that, it's actually an incredibly easy spell to test; stay out of shiradi during testing so force procs don't get confusing, turn off colors EPL, and record number of missiles with and without a higher caster level; they're the exact same.


P.S.
Niac is a level 1 save or nothing spell, not something I'd build around.

It's not terribly difficult to get Niac's to a 95% success chance though, and taking it from cold savant it's easily spammable and costs 2 sp, as well as outputting very high damage. I certainly wouldn't say I built around the spell (The build is still built around missile spam) but it's handy to take most enemies from full health to dead, and to spike a lot of damage at long range (It has double range as a ray, as well as being enlargeable).

[Blastyswa]

There isn't any filler in AoV. Smiting lines, Scourge, Just Rewards, Maximize reduction, and spell power boost all directly add to dps.
Maximize Reduction doesn't add to DPS, and costs 6 AP, but aside from that I do take most of the others (I also don't take spell power boost, just because I don't want to have to remember to tap it, and the benefit is relatively small).


Cold damage does sound good, but I opted for electric to increase prismatic spray, lightning bolt, and hellball. The cold proc on hellball is only on a saved cast. While I'm sure many mobs save often in LE, the chance of them not saving and not getting the cold proc put me off of it.

Good point, I actually forgot about hellball. I still enjoy using cold for the vulnerability many shav enemies have towards it and because Niac's is a fun little toy, but I definitely see a lot of advantages in going electric.

[Blue_wizards]

Main one's I consider filler are stacking maximize sp discount, as with just reward I have never, in any situation aside from CiTW, in all my time spent playing any shiradi missile build, actually ran out of SP without using maximize sp discount. And Intense Faith, again according to my own testing of it, doesn't really effect anything if your caster levels are 9+.

Are you taking Arcane Supremacy from the AM tree?
If no then you really should because it has a major effect on your DPS and a tremendous effect on your healing.
If yes then maximize sp discount isn't a filler but your best option while getting to tier 5 as well as gets your 1:1 usp for ap. Same thing goes for Tier four FvS tree.

Never run out of SP? Turn on Empower for more DPS.
Already have max and empower on with no discount and still never run out of SP? You are not dishing out the amount of DPS the build is capable of.





Chain Missile's isn't variable per cast though; I was consistently seeing 10 missiles coming out regardless of caster level. Given that, it's actually an incredibly easy spell to test; stay out of shiradi during testing so force procs don't get confusing, turn off colors EPL, and record number of missiles with and without a higher caster level; they're the exact same.

Caster level for CM comes in to play when casting it into large groups of mobs by getting more missiles hitting more mobs, you should test that and preferably as I suggested.




It's not terribly difficult to get Niac's to a 95% success chance though, and taking it from cold savant it's easily spammable and costs 2 sp, as well as outputting very high damage. I certainly wouldn't say I built around the spell (The build is still built around missile spam) but it's handy to take most enemies from full health to dead, and to spike a lot of damage at long range.

I'm interested in the DC you are getting that works 95% of the time and on what difficulty you achieve this success rate.


(It has double range as a ray, as well as being enlargeable).

Wrong.
Ray spells are not enlargeable. They naturally have double range, the feat does not effect them any further.

[Blastyswa]

Are you taking Arcane Supremacy from the AM tree?
If no then you really should because it has a major effect on your DPS and a tremendous effect on your healing.
If yes then maximize sp discount isn't a filler but your best option while getting to tier 5 as well as gets your 1:1 usp for ap. Same thing goes for Tier four FvS tree.

Yes, 35 AP in Archmage. Instead of a metamagic discount ability, I take 3x Traditionalist Caster (Epic Golden Orb of Death), 3x Subtle Spellcasting (In groups it means less kiting around like a prick), 2 Energies of the Scholar, full Crit Line, both Intelligences, +1 Evocation DC, Arcane Bolt, 3x Cores, Arcane Blast, and Arcane Supremacy. a 1:1 USP is such a marginal difference over the 0.75:1 SP gained from going deeper into a Savant line that I would definitely prefer the additional benefits of a Savant Line over seeking an extra 0.25 sp per 1 AP spent.


Never run out of SP? Turn on Empower for more DPS.
Already have max and empower on with no discount and still never run out of SP? You are not dishing out the amount of DPS the build is capable of.

I have Empower/Maximize on for Ruin/Gruin at all times, as well as all SLAs; I toggle Maximize on while using Epic Noxious Embers/Noxious Embers/Ornamented Dagger, and with 13 charges of lesser maximize I have no problem making it through all content but phase 1 shroud without getting even close to out of SP, and I still don't run out there. Turning on Empower is an additional +75 spellpower; given that I have 780 spellpower pre-maximize, and typically have 930 post-maximize with lesser maximize up, using Empower is a 6.5% DPS increase, and using it on spells like magic missile or chain missile between double and quadruple the spell cost. If you're running max and empower on with discount and running out of SP, you're gaining a marginal increase in DPS at the cost of losing the phenomenal SP conservation this build is capable of.


Caster level for CM comes in to play when casting it into large groups of mobs by getting more missiles hitting more mobs, you should test that and preferably as I suggested.

There's no reason to make up complicated tests for it. I've casted chain missile in very large groups, and recorded the footage. I've casted chain missile in smaller groups and recorded the footage. I then went frame by frame through all 4 recordings, 1 from large group and 1 from small group with gloves on, and 1 from each with gloves off. Chain Missile procs are the exact same.


I'm interested in the DC you are getting that works 95% of the time and on what difficulty you achieve this success rate.

Fair enough, Niac's does take a bit of boosting. I play in Vampire Form over Zombie for a +3 DC (Zombie is -4 cha, Vampire is +2), and have charisma as my primary stat over constitution. The character I played this build on had 9x primal EPLs as well as 3x cleric and many other goodies, so going full on con based wasn't necessary to hit a respectable HP total.
Charisma:
16 Base
7 Tome
7 Level Ups
15 Item (Random Loot)
7 Insightful Item (LGS Vacuum tier 2)
4 Quality Item (Legendary Dashing Gloves)
1 Exceptional Item (Globe)
2 Completionist
2 Profane (Epic Litany)
2 Guild
1 Human
1 Sorc Savant
2 Vampire
2 Yugo
1 Twist
70 Charisma
Niac's Cold Ray DC:
10 Base
3 Heighten Spell
30 Charisma
3 Cleric Past Life (Niac's is Conjuration)
3 Insightful (Armor)
7 Equipment (Goggles, could put somewhere else too)
1 Quality (Arcane Soldier)
1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
1 Past Life: Wizard (Arcane Initiate)
3 Magister Spell Focus: Evocation
62 DC Reflex

I think I might have missed a few thing, because that's a little lower than my actual DC, but it's relatively close. Keep in mind focusing on conjuration also affects web, which gives you a potent CC tool to group mobs for chain missile/eldritch blast.


Wrong.
Ray spells are not enlargeable. They naturally have double range, the feat does not effect them any further.
You're correct; I misremembered, as I haven't played the build in a while. I do still use Niac's to spike long ranged damage just based on it's ray range, but it doesn't get 4x range.

[Blue_wizards]

Yes, 35 AP in Archmage. Instead of a metamagic discount ability, I take 3x Traditionalist Caster (Epic Golden Orb of Death), 3x Subtle Spellcasting (In groups it means less kiting around like a prick), 2 Energies of the Scholar, full Crit Line, both Intelligences, +1 Evocation DC, Arcane Bolt, 3x Cores, Arcane Blast, and Arcane Supremacy. a 1:1 USP is such a marginal difference over the 0.75:1 SP gained from going deeper into a Savant line that I would definitely prefer the additional benefits of a Savant Line over seeking an extra 0.25 sp per 1 AP spent.

All these things add up, giving up tier 3 and 4 of FVS smite lines is a big deal.



I have Empower/Maximize on for Ruin/Gruin at all times, as well as all SLAs; I toggle Maximize on while using Epic Noxious Embers/Noxious Embers/Ornamented Dagger, and with 13 charges of lesser maximize I have no problem making it through all content but phase 1 shroud without getting even close to out of SP, and I still don't run out there. Turning on Empower is an additional +75 spellpower; given that I have 780 spellpower pre-maximize, and typically have 930 post-maximize with lesser maximize up, using Empower is a 6.5% DPS increase, and using it on spells like magic missile or chain missile between double and quadruple the spell cost. If you're running max and empower on with discount and running out of SP, you're gaining a marginal increase in DPS at the cost of losing the phenomenal SP conservation this build is capable of.

I don't understand how you prefer swapping items (and losing casting time - dps loss) and use clickies while not using non interrupting spell power boosts. Taking spell points enhancements, keep empower off for most spells and not taking spell point cost discount.



There's no reason to make up complicated tests for it. I've casted chain missile in very large groups, and recorded the footage. I've casted chain missile in smaller groups and recorded the footage. I then went frame by frame through all 4 recordings, 1 from large group and 1 from small group with gloves on, and 1 from each with gloves off. Chain Missile procs are the exact same.

I don't see how the test I suggested would be complicated, seems very simple to me. Real game situations aren't make up tests, they are a very good way to measure.



Fair enough, Niac's does take a bit of boosting. I play in Vampire Form over Zombie for a +3 DC (Zombie is -4 cha, Vampire is +2), and have charisma as my primary stat over constitution. The character I played this build on had 9x primal EPLs as well as 3x cleric and many other goodies, so going full on con based wasn't necessary to hit a respectable HP total.
Charisma:
16 Base
7 Tome
7 Level Ups
15 Item (Random Loot)
7 Insightful Item (LGS Vacuum tier 2)
4 Quality Item (Legendary Dashing Gloves)
1 Exceptional Item (Globe)
2 Completionist
2 Profane (Epic Litany)
2 Guild
1 Human
1 Sorc Savant
2 Vampire
2 Yugo
1 Twist
70 Charisma
Niac's Cold Ray DC:
10 Base
3 Heighten Spell
30 Charisma
3 Cleric Past Life (Niac's is Conjuration)
3 Insightful (Armor)
7 Equipment (Goggles, could put somewhere else too)
1 Quality (Arcane Soldier)
1 Spell Focus: Conjuration
1 Past Life: Wizard (Arcane Initiate)
3 Magister Spell Focus: Evocation
62 DC Reflex

I think I might have missed a few thing, because that's a little lower than my actual DC, but it's relatively close. Keep in mind focusing on conjuration also affects web, which gives you a potent CC tool to group mobs for chain missile/eldritch blast.

You're correct; I misremembered, as I haven't played the build in a while. I do still use Niac's to spike long ranged damage just based on it's ray range, but it doesn't get 4x range.

Seems to me you are putting a LOT into making Niac's viable. 62 Ref DC (which is actually lower by at least 2 since you listed two pairs of gloves ) is pretty far from 95% success rate (and forget entirely of any evasion mobs) not to mention the SLA spell has a different calculation (affected only by casting stat , spell level and character level) which yields a lower DC still. 3 feats, 2 twists, a +15 cha item that has to go somewhere not to mention completionist and 3x cleric past lives requirements...

Hi buddy if you enjoy it great, that's 99% of what matters IMO and some would claim 100%.
Objectively speaking it has less dps and a lot more requirements than 10/6/4. Lets agree to disagree.

[lotterholt]

Managed to get 99% of the gear I want for this, but the Golden Orb of Death still eludes me. Been farming rares in part 1 of ToEE for weeks to no avail >_<. Makes me feel like the orb does not drop form them.

[Blue_wizards]

Managed to get 99% of the gear I want for this, but the Golden Orb of Death still eludes me. Been farming rares in part 1 of ToEE for weeks to no avail >_<. Makes me feel like the orb does not drop form them.

It drops from ToEE part 1 end chest.
Better chances on higher difficulties, good luck!

[Eth]

Managed to get 99% of the gear I want for this, but the Golden Orb of Death still eludes me. Been farming rares in part 1 of ToEE for weeks to no avail >_<. Makes me feel like the orb does not drop form them.

Seen it 4 times in the pyramid chest in part 2 which is one of the easiest farmable chests in ToEE.
I've also seen it once in the end chest of part 2.




http://i.imgur.com/vqYjqtQ.png
****.

[Atheok]

http://i.imgur.com/8p02w2y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XXhBjfu.jpg

and the new CC

[HuneyMunster]

Has anyone tried Half-Elf Dilettante: Warlock 1d4 fire dmg proc once every 2 secs to check if it procs Shiradi effects or Empyrean?

Fire Fiend Pact is supposed to proc Empyrean and the same with Shiradi effects.

Hopefully lamannia will be up again soon some can test this.

[lotterholt]

Finally got my last items and now working on my last 4 large ingredients to do a green steel weapon (still have some random odds and ends in gloves and boots). Just out of curiosity for giggles do you know how a legendary ooze weapon works with the large amount of spam of hits this produces? -10 MRR is not as good as 20% vulnerability, but I am just curious if you produce just a hoard of oozes everywhere for a laugh. It does not mention a cool down just a % also does not mention a max to number of oozes and I have seen youtube videos with 4 or so.

[moo_cow]

What LGS items are you using on this build?

[Eth]

What LGS items are you using on this build?
I'm using Int skills + SP and Con skills + HP.



Finally got my last items and now working on my last 4 large ingredients to do a green steel weapon (still have some random odds and ends in gloves and boots). Just out of curiosity for giggles do you know how a legendary ooze weapon works with the large amount of spam of hits this produces? -10 MRR is not as good as 20% vulnerability, but I am just curious if you produce just a hoard of oozes everywhere for a laugh. It does not mention a cool down just a % also does not mention a max to number of oozes and I have seen youtube videos with 4 or so.
No idea, haven't tried ooze weapons. I'd expect it to have a cooldown though.


Has anyone tried Half-Elf Dilettante: Warlock 1d4 fire dmg proc once every 2 secs to check if it procs Shiradi effects or Empyrean?

Fire Fiend Pact is supposed to proc Empyrean and the same with Shiradi effects.

Hopefully lamannia will be up again soon some can test this.
Interesting idea, but from my understanding, it's not procs that generate EM stacks, the type of the original spell is the only important thing. Doubt it would work.

[Ziindarax]

Here are some screenies of my spellpowers.
First is without anything but shipbuffs, second is full madhouse with almost everything going (kinda hard to get everything going at the same time....so much temporary stuff):
Min:
http://i.imgur.com/aM4zM0Y.png

Max:
http://i.imgur.com/8Fkk2Bw.png

How in the world are you getting your spell power that high (especially light spell power)?

[Atheok]

I think that along with the Slave Lords Crafting, that if some of the speculations are correct or at least close to the truth (http://ddowiki.com/page/Slave_Lords_Crafting) , my gear will take a turn. I'm thinking 5 set Sorcery Set consisted by 2 Legendary Five Rings (2 Rings slots), 2 Legendary Shackles (Wrists and Feet slots) and the Legendary Symbol of the Slave Lords (Insightful 8 Con - Trinket). This will place the LGS SP (INT skills) item on eyes.

Prefixes: 17 Con & Int, 381 Wizardry and 68 False Life
Suffixes: 185 Radiance and Nullification, 27 Kinetic Lore, and 1 choice from 14 Resist/185 Sonic
Extras: Spell Focus +7
Bonuses: 4 Quality Con & Cha, 11 Quality PRR & MRR

Will have to change my Vacuum Longsword to 15 Cha - tier 1, 7 insightful Int tier 2 and 37 exc nullification.

The total grind is at 2500 Legendary Broken Shackles and Chain Links, 1300 Legendary Broken Collars, 500 Legendary Frayed Leathers and Shattered Symbols of the Slave Lords. A 6 weeks ransack repeat more or less. Or less, considering the ingredient chests don't have a ransack but I'm not sure that's wai.

The only thing I will miss will be perma FOM, but I guess I'll have to live without it.

[Eth]

I think that along with the Slave Lords Crafting, that if some of the speculations are correct or at least close to the truth (http://ddowiki.com/page/Slave_Lords_Crafting) , my gear will take a turn. I'm thinking 5 set Sorcery Set consisted by 2 Legendary Five Rings (2 Rings slots), 2 Legendary Shackles (Wrists and Feet slots) and the Legendary Symbol of the Slave Lords (Insightful 8 Con - Trinket). This will place the LGS SP (INT skills) item on eyes.

Prefixes: 17 Con & Int, 381 Wizardry and 68 False Life
Suffixes: 185 Radiance and Nullification, 27 Kinetic Lore, and 1 choice from 14 Resist/185 Sonic
Extras: Spell Focus +7
Bonuses: 4 Quality Con & Cha, 11 Quality PRR & MRR

Will have to change my Vacuum Longsword to 15 Cha - tier 1, 7 insightful Int tier 2 and 37 exc nullification.

The total grind is at 2500 Legendary Broken Shackles and Chain Links, 1300 Legendary Broken Collars, 500 Legendary Frayed Leathers and Shattered Symbols of the Slave Lords. A 6 weeks ransack repeat more or less. Or less, considering the ingredient chests don't have a ransack but I'm not sure that's wai.

The only thing I will miss will be perma FOM, but I guess I'll have to live without it.

185 Spellpowers and 27 Lores definitely need to find their way in. That's a lot of slave lords we have to run, jeez.
Losing FoM doesn't matter. The only thing FoM protects you against that is not covered by undead form already is grease and sleet storm.

[Atheok]

The only thing FoM protects you against that is not covered by undead form already is grease and sleet storm.

True. I'll just have my boots somewhere on hot-bars to swap when grease procs...


That's a lot of slave lords we have to run, jeez.



asl pls :)

[Eth]

True. I'll just have my boots somewhere on hot-bars to swap when grease procs...
Not having perma FoM is more fun anyway. Need to adjust my level 1 spells.



asl pls :)
30, male, germany

[Ziindarax]

How in the world are you getting your spell power that high (especially light spell power)?

Repeating for emphasis. I am mostly curious for the sake of being a better caster. Can we get a break down on how to get the spell power that high, if possible?

[Eth]

I tried... this is for light spellpower. I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting.

Equipment:
144 equipment
42 Implement bonus
65 insight
15 quality
24 Meridian Fragment
6 Mythic

Basic:
60 epic levels
101 Spellcraft

Enhancements:
75 enhancement points in caster trees (core1)
10 traditionalist caster
30 scourge
30 action boost

Pots:
25 commendation pot
20 alchemical

Destiny:
10 base
6 healing spring
15 Fey Form
5 Interrogation (twist)
20 empyrean magic (twist)

Feats:
30 Scion of the Plane of Fire
90 MoK
150 Wellspring of Power

Past Lifes:
30 Sun elf

Tomes:
2 Spellpower

total:
1008

[Edwardt]

You have any suggestions on the new U32 loot? I think the Legendary Symbol of the Slave Lords fits pretty well in there, but what about the other slots and how they might come in conflict with leg Greensteel.

[Eth]

The trinket doesn't seem to make much sense. TS, displace and 2 slots are more or less useless. Leaves the 8 insight Con.
There are 2 insightful things I'd fit in which are Con and PRR. The PRR is already covered by the current trinket.
So ultimately I need one crafted cannith item to cover the other one (Con or PRR) either way, no matter which trinket I pick.
In the end this make it a trade off between 1 Con and ghostly, where I'd always pick the latter.


Haven't really thought much about the gear yet. From a first glance something like this?

Goggles: LGS (Spellpoints, Int skills)
Helm: Legendary Pansophic Circlet
Necklace: Epic Noxious Embers
Trinket: Legendary Planar Compass
Cloak: Slave
Belt: Legendary Festering Mummy Wrappings
Ring 1: Lantern Ring
Ring 2: 159 Sonic/7 Insight Con/23 Sonic Lore Cannith Crafted
Gloves: Gloves of the Arcane Soldier
Boots: Slave
Bracers: Slave
Armor: Robe of the Celestial Sage
Weapon1: 150 negative spellpower + 7 charisma + 37 exceptional negative spellpower legendary vacuum
Weapon2: Golden Orb of Death (138 negative spellpower+meridian fragment)

Slave1: 17 Con / 185 Force SP / 6 Evocation / 4 Con
Slave2: 68 False Life / 27 Kinetic Lore / 22 Concentration / 11 PRR
Slave3: 17 Int / 14 Resistance / 22 Perform / 4 Charisma

This would lose basically nothing over the current set and only gain some things here and there. But there's likely something better.

[lotterholt]

Chains / Legendary Waist/Neck
Shackles / Legendary Wrist/Feet
Five Rings / Legendary Trinket/Ring

Unfortunately none of those fit cloak. You could go two of Ring/Bracers/Boots with the named cloak if you wanted three though or a LGS cloak and the three items in those slots.

On another note anyone bother to put a clicky on their weapon? Which one, so many of them seem to take way to many larges.

[BuyerSeller]

Hello, I like this build a lot, but I am confused about a few things. I don't see why the 10 Sorc is so important? Is it only for the faster casting speed and spell recovery? Could I not take sorc at all and still have a viable build? What if you took say 4 favored soul and 16 Wizard? Does the Sorc part make or break the build? Thanks!


Also, what about 14 wizard, 4 favored soul and 2 warlock (for AoE Aura and Hungry for destruction enhancement? 12 Uni Spellpower) or maybe even tainted spellcasting? ...

[Eth]

Could I not take sorc at all and still have a viable build?
Absolutely. IMO at the very core a good shiradi build is 6 Wiz/4 FvS. Archmage and AoV are by far the best enhancement trees for these builds. What you do with the leftover levels is really up to you and your preferance.



Also, what about 14 wizard, 4 favored soul and 2 warlock (for AoE Aura and Hungry for destruction enhancement? 12 Uni Spellpower) or maybe even tainted spellcasting? ...
13/4/3 is a really good shiradi build. Definitely pick up the 10% extra crit. damage from 3 warlock. Don't see the benefit of going 14 wiz instead.




Unfortunately none of those fit cloak.
Whoops, right. That makes putting insight con 7 somewhere a bit harder. Need to rethink that.

[SeveredSteel]

13/4/3 is a really good shiradi build. Definitely pick up the 10% extra crit. damage from 3 warlock. Don't see the benefit of going 14 wiz instead.
If going warlock it forces the build to spend ap for 70 universal spellpower over aura. Because the aura is blocking MoK stacking due to turbine being too lazy to just prevent aura from stacking MoK. Yet Eldritch Blasts do not build MoK stacks and do not block MoK stacking.... turbine pls. come on.

I posted the ap for the warlocks plit in slarden''s thread : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455095-Shiradi-Wizard-Plan-For-First-Lifers

I would still suggest paladin over warlock for the stalwart stance and +12 to saves.


Whoops, right. That makes putting insight con 7 somewhere a bit harder. Need to rethink that.
with CC, slaver, and lgs gearing has become a mess for gearing. IDk what I'm going to do yet either and so i made a 17con/27 kinetic/ 4 quality con ring. Good thing is if you have lats the slaver gear is bta and I swap it back and forth between my sorc and wiz versions. I still have not tested the lgs set I posted here a while back because shroud is dead on my server. Lucky if I see it once a week on LH.

[Eth]

If going warlock it forces the build to spend ap for 70 universal spellpower over aura. Because the aura is blocking MoK stacking due to turbine being too lazy to just prevent aura from stacking MoK. Yet Eldritch Blasts do not build MoK stacks and do not block MoK stacking.... turbine pls. come on.

I posted the ap for the warlocks plit in slarden''s thread : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455095-Shiradi-Wizard-Plan-For-First-Lifers

I would still suggest paladin over warlock for the stalwart stance and +12 to saves.


Good to know. Adding aura on top of the build might make it to lagtastic anyway. :D

Another good option would be two barbarian, which solves one of the builds biggest weakness, which is only base run speed with no abundant steps.
10% run speed, 6 x 30% sprint boosts and 3-7 x 35% rage sprint boosts. Rawr.

[unbongwah]

10% run speed, 6 x 30% sprint boosts and 3-7 x 35% rage sprint boosts. Rawr.
Doesn't Rage block spellcasting? :confused: Or do you mean "Rage for the 'free' Sprint Boost, dismiss it when it's time to cast spells?"

[Eth]

Or do you mean "Rage for the 'free' Sprint Boost, dismiss it when it's time to cast spells?"

Yep. :) You can dismiss it anytime.

[moo_cow]

How effective is the vaccum gs?

the wiki states that: Attacks and offensive spells have a [100%] chance to inflict multiple [6-7] stacks of Vulnerable.

Does this actually hold true? If I throw 2 lightning spells am I actually going to have 12-14 vulnerability stacks instantly?

Is there a timer on the vaccum effect?

Are vulnerability stacks thrown on from things like mass hold monster and crushing despair?

[Eth]

Does this actually hold true? If I throw 2 lightning spells am I actually going to have 12-14 vulnerability stacks instantly?
Yes.



Is there a timer on the vaccum effect?
No.
It's also worth noting that it works per spell. A MM will not proc it 5 times, but only once (giving 6-7 stacks).

So usually you throw any 3-4 spells and the mob is at full vulnerability.



Are vulnerability stacks thrown on from things like mass hold monster and crushing despair?
Don't know, but I'll find out soon. Went back to pure sorc, currently leveling my way back to cap ;)

[moo_cow]

Yes.


No.
It's also worth noting that it works per spell. A MM will not proc it 5 times, but only once (giving 6-7 stacks).

So usually you throw any 3-4 spells and the mob is at full vulnerability.


Don't know, but I'll find out soon. Went back to pure sorc, currently leveling my way back to cap ;)

Excellent. I find air savant vulnerability to be odd. I can spam 20 lightning spells and end up with 3 stacks-5 stacks.

[Eth]

I can spam 20 lightning spells and end up with 3 stacks-5 stacks.

Just unlucky rolls? Don't know if the 0 has a higher chance over 1 or 2 stacks.

[moo_cow]

Just unlucky rolls? Don't know if the 0 has a higher chance over 1 or 2 stacks.

No idea. But I always keep the examination window open while nuking red names and I can see that I almost gain no stacks from spamming.

[HuneyMunster]

Interesting idea, but from my understanding, it's not procs that generate EM stacks, the type of the original spell is the only important thing. Doubt it would work.

I tested it out when U32 lamania was up a while ago. Half-Elf Warlock dil was doing similar damage to a scorching ray. I don't remember if I test Empyream out or not though, but would think it would not proc it when casting force. Melee attacks didn't gain spell power, but will try to test again on the current lamannia to see if it still works. I want to test it again anyway as Im gonna try 12 fvs 8 wiz zombie next life.

[mraz]

hey, Eth! ive ran slavers with you and rhudaa the other day and your pure sorc looks like mass murderer! :D so i was wondering... have you ever made that LGS set for more crit chance? and if you did, what combination of essences?
thx

[Eth]

hey, Eth! ive ran slavers with you and rhudaa the other day and your pure sorc looks like mass murderer! :D so i was wondering... have you ever made that LGS set for more crit chance? and if you did, what combination of essences?
thx

No. I'm lacking lots of gear still on the pure sorc. Just finished my first slavers item and upgraded my two named items so I have the 3 set bonus now. Still need to finish 2 slave lords items and LGS #2 and #3 (crit damage and 18% SP set).

[mraz]

hehe, slavers are easy... just mindless zerging just like TOR was back in a days :D
but LGS... wiki says one thing, people say something else... its just so confusing and i dont have endless mats to try all posibilites... blah! :D

[Eth]

hehe, slavers are easy... just mindless zerging just like TOR was back in a days :D
but LGS... wiki says one thing, people say something else... its just so confusing and i dont have endless mats to try all posibilites... blah! :D

If you talk about the universal crit. damage set then you'll need at least 4 items with material tiers. The best to combine it with is probably opposition since that gives you the % HP bonus aswell.

[SeveredSteel]

1 - all mat/opp
2 - all mat/opp
3 - all mat/opp
4
dom/eth
esc/eth
mat/opp (or blank)
5
esc/eth
dom/eth
mat/opp (or blank)

Ender
Finally got dem runes. Yay. Ender set does not seem to have a cooldown. Making it possible to multi-ender trash. The proc rate is low and getting to 20 stacks of vulnerable takes much longer than a vacuum weapon. Going to pass the set to my zombie instead of my robot wizard variant due to the faster CM cooldown.

The above set will NOT work as listed, and instead I built the following :

Item 1 : Mat/Opp fully
Item 2 : Mat/Opp fully
Item 3 : Mat/Opp fully
Item 4 : Mat/Opp fully
Item 5 : Tier 1 Dom/Eth, Tier 2 Esc/Eth, Tier 3 Mat/Opp.

Giving me :
29% spell crit multiplier to all
30% hp
20% additional electric critical multiplier
151 insight spell points
11 insight int skills
Fear Imm/Death Block
Fire Res 50 enhancement
Elec Res 50 enhanc
Negative resistance 25 insight
Fire Res 25 insight
Elec Res 25 Ins
Cold Res 17 competence
Elec Res 17 comp
Fire resistance 17 competence
Disease/Poison insight +4 to saves
Unconscious range, and healing from triple pos/mat/opp.
Ender.

[Lumpsack]

Firstly thank you for putting together such a good guide and videos but I have to ask a question.

I've been following the guide and have just hit lvl 16 - I know pre 20 so the synergies not there yet, but I thought I'd see some of it by now.

I've been playng as a lightning chucker which is working okay, but a fair bit weaker than I'm used to (I'm going for completionist and have been rolling through various classes to 30 then back to 1 and so on) but I digress, anyway when I've tried using force I find the SLAs to be weak (lots or reflex saves plus always waiting on timers), presumably because I'm only wiz lvl 6, but thats not going to change now even when I'm over 20, so how are you getting round this, obviously you are from the vids but I'm not seeing it yet.

I had thought that maybe the favoured soul levels were the thing but by chance the guy I always game with is playing FS this time round and has a FS + Wiz lvl 6, almost the same sort of idea as this but from a different angle and he's worse than me :(

Anyway I'd love to know whats coming and thanks for any replies.

[Morroiel]

Firstly thank you for putting together such a good guide and videos but I have to ask a question.

I've been following the guide and have just hit lvl 16 - I know pre 20 so the synergies not there yet, but I thought I'd see some of it by now.

I've been playng as a lightning chucker which is working okay, but a fair bit weaker than I'm used to (I'm going for completionist and have been rolling through various classes to 30 then back to 1 and so on) but I digress, anyway when I've tried using force I find the SLAs to be weak (lots or reflex saves plus always waiting on timers), presumably because I'm only wiz lvl 6, but thats not going to change now even when I'm over 20, so how are you getting round this, obviously you are from the vids but I'm not seeing it yet.

I had thought that maybe the favoured soul levels were the thing but by chance the guy I always game with is playing FS this time round and has a FS + Wiz lvl 6, almost the same sort of idea as this but from a different angle and he's worse than me :(

Anyway I'd love to know whats coming and thanks for any replies.

Quick reply: this build is at its weakest from 14-20 (not inclusive of 20) because it doesn't have access to - shiradi, arcane pulse, g ruin, ruin, eburst, or hellball. Once you hit 20, and shiradi you will be destroying content. That said I would never recommend this build for people who want quick trs.

[Lumpsack]

Cheers, I had thought it might be just that, fingers crossed my mate gets better at 20 - we made a deal that if we're not both good at 20 we'd TR, that said if his kicks in too we'll continue to 30 as planned.

Thanks for the reply, it'll help us get through these (granted pre-warned) horrid levels :D

[Eth]

Cheers, I had thought it might be just that, fingers crossed my mate gets better at 20 - we made a deal that if we're not both good at 20 we'd TR, that said if his kicks in too we'll continue to 30 as planned.

Thanks for the reply, it'll help us get through these (granted pre-warned) horrid levels :D

Pre level 20 your best spells against evasive mobs are scorching ray and either wall of fire or acid rain, which is why I recommended only taking one of the level 4 healing spells and using one of these to deal with stuff that has evasion.

Anything that doesn't have evasion can still be nuked with fireball/acid blast, even if it's for only half damage. The base spellpower of the build is high enough to still make those matter and the SP efficiency helps not running out of SP (cause you will need way more nukes than a traditional sorc for example).

Keep in mind this build was really designed for end game. Reaching 20 will give you a huge push, if you have a fully leveled shiradi destiny that you can play in.
It really shines at level 30 though.

If you are just looking for a build to level from 1-30 there are really a lot of options that are better.

[Kaisheng21]

What weaknesses does this build have?

[Eth]

What weaknesses does this build have?

It's a bit on the squishy side PRR wise. If you can be bothered to farm a four or five piece LGS mat/opp set you can make up for it with lots of HP.

In reaper mode undead self healing only works OKish up until R3 or so. After that you are better off in fleshy form or might aswell make a different build ;)

[Kaisheng21]

Is it hard to gear for?

[Son_of_the_South]

Eth - what do you think of this build as a Deep Gnome? (sorry if this has been asked/discussed before in this thread)

[Eth]

Eth - what do you think of this build as a Deep Gnome? (sorry if this has been asked/discussed before in this thread)

As described race doesn't really matter since there are no points spend in the racial tree.
If you care about capped play there was an issue with Articles of Faith not working for iconics which would prevent you from getting 42 universal implement spellpower on your LGS weapon.
That has been fixed by now.
So deep gnome works fine.

With some of the racial changes drow and dragonborn make the strongest contenders now I would think.
Darf Fire from drow is really strong and appearantly on their list already of getting dialed back a bit.
Breath from dragonborn looks also interesting.

[Eth]

Is it hard to gear for?

Gear list in the OP isn't up to date (pre slavers gear), but everything listed there isn't particularly hard to acquire.
Since the build doesn't rely on stats really, it's rather one of the easier builds to gear for.

For priorities:
Pansophic circlet should be the highest priority on your list.
Noxious embers (cheap alternative would be the ring from slavers now). Those two items cover all your generic spellpowers and crit chances.
Legendary Festering Mummy Wrappings really increases your healing potential.
Gloves of the Arcane Soldier for the CL increase.
LGS vacuum stick for more damage.

[Lumpsack]

Pre level 20 your best spells against evasive mobs are scorching ray and either wall of fire or acid rain, which is why I recommended only taking one of the level 4 healing spells and using one of these to deal with stuff that has evasion.

Anything that doesn't have evasion can still be nuked with fireball/acid blast, even if it's for only half damage. The base spellpower of the build is high enough to still make those matter and the SP efficiency helps not running out of SP (cause you will need way more nukes than a traditional sorc for example).

Keep in mind this build was really designed for end game. Reaching 20 will give you a huge push, if you have a fully leveled shiradi destiny that you can play in.
It really shines at level 30 though.

If you are just looking for a build to level from 1-30 there are really a lot of options that are better.

Thanks for the feedback Eth.

Thankfully when I hit 20 I've a full set of all the epic trees so set for Shiradi :)
Just swapped over to fire at 17 in part for the extra boost from favoured soul and its pretty fun and **** quick with us both blasting away like lunatics, that and we've switched down to more standard level fare rather than the current level +2 on hard, which was the old way.

You're right about the spell power well over 2000 now so its not a struggle in that side any more.

I'm sure you're right about there being better builds for the TR run throughs but its working for me so thanks again for the build.

[Kaisheng21]

1. What about switching out Interrogation for Embrace the Light and running as a vampire instead?
2. What Slavers ring?
3. Wiki says LGS vacuum stick got nerfed, is it still worth it?
4. Could you give exact recipe for stick; not sure if it's Domination or Escalation, Etherial or Material, etc.
5. Vacuum is Air, first stage; that's electric spellpower, guard or absorption, some Cha or Dex or some MRR. None of them seem worth it. Why that?

[Eth]

1. What about switching out Interrogation for Embrace the Light and running as a vampire instead?
Vampire would be my recommendation for a Int build. Light damage isn't that frequent in the game - if you know the spots you can do with spell absorb swapping. If you can afford the twist why not.
For Con build I don't see the point really not going zombie.



2. What Slavers ring?
I TRed out of the build by the time we got slavers, so I have not done an updated gearset for the build. Maybe someone else can help there.
Obviously the best things to grab off slavers is the 185 force spellpower and 27 force crit. chance which requires at least two custom items.



3. Wiki says LGS vacuum stick got nerfed, is it still worth it?
Yes, the procrate is not 100% anymore. However, especially on this build it is still extremely fast in building stacks with it. For magic missiles every single missile can proc it (I think I said something contrary some time ago in this thread, but this seems to be the way it works. A single PL:Wiz MM cast will set pretty much anything at 20 stacks).
Totally worth it.



4. Could you give exact recipe for stick; not sure if it's Domination or Escalation, Etherial or Material, etc.
You basically have two options.

1. Better self healing:
Tier 1: Negative+Ethereal+Dominion = 150 negative Spellpower
Tier 2: Air+Ethereal+Escalation = 7 insightful Charisma (it's not great, but the best option IMO, I went with that)
Tier 3: Negative+Air+Ethereal+Dominion = 37 Negative Spellpower

2. More DPS (requires using Energy Burst electric. Would also recommend Eladars DoT):
Tier 1: Air+Ethereal+Dominion = 150 electric Spellpower
Tier 2: Negative+Ethereal+Escalation = 7 insightful Int
Tier 3: Air+Negative+Ethereal+Dominion = 37 electric spellpower

[SilvanDDO]

Here is my equipment list at the moment without the Gloves of the Arcane Soldier or LGS items which I am working on. Finished Slavers Set and using Abashi.

Armor Flawless Shadow Dragon Armor DR30/60 Ghostly Fortification +130% From The Shadows
Waist Legendary Festering Mummy Wraps Neg Amplification: +72, Greater Boon of Undeath, Light Resistance +68, Quality Int +4
Helm Legendary Pansophic Circlet Potency +131 Insightful Potency +65 Quality Potency +15 Magical Efficiency 10%
Weapon1 Cannith Heavy Mace Resonance 159 Insightful Balance 7 Insightful Impulse 79 *+39SP Imp Bonus AOV
Weapon2 Orb of Death Elemental Absorption 20% Insightful Spell Lore V Energy Siphon XII
Goggles Cannith Evoc6 Truesight Insightful Int7 Insightful Balance 7

5 Piece Slavers Set
Ring1 Slavers INT17 Kenetic Lore 27 Spellsight 22 Quality Spellsight 5
Ring2 Legendary Spinneret Quality Potency 32 SpellLore 15 Quality Spell Focus II Spell Penetration VII
Trinket Slavers Sheltering 45 Nul 185 Heal 22 Q MRR 11
Neck Slavers Impulse 185 Con 17 Performance 22 QCon4
Bracers Slavers False Life 68 Resistance 14 Concentration 22 Quality PRR 11
Slavers Set Bonus
+2 Artifact bonus to Int/Wis/Cha
+10 Artifact bonus to Spell Power
+4 Artifact bonus to Spell Focus Mastery

3 Piece Abashi (until I get Gloves of Arcane Soldier, see below) *+3 Caster Lvl
Cloak Abashi
Boots Abashi
Gloves Abashi

w/LGS Heavy Mace http://ddocrafting.info/lgs/17/16/24/15/11/-1/
*+42SP Implement Bonus (Sun Elf = Hvy Mace Favored Weapon/AOV Articles of Faith)

w/Gloves of Arcane Soldier *+2 Caster Lvl (getting close to 20 runs of DOJ) I will drop Abashi gear and slot:
Boots LGS HP (Likely worn with Robes for Elite/Reaper)
or
Boots Slavers Wizardry 371 Resonance 185 UMD 7 Quality MRR 11 (likely worn with Shadow Guardian Plate for LH)

Cloak (LGS) http://ddocrafting.info/lgs/6/26/26/244/-1/-1/ SP 151, Int Skills 22 SP 151, Int Skills 11 SP 75, Int Skills 6

Augments (I have most of my Slavers set in Green Slots with Slavers Bonus filled in, single slots on cannith crafted gear)
Spell Agility +15
Armored Agility +2
Insightful Con +2
Power +250
CHR 8 temp in Cannith Weapon until LGS is finished
Festive Int +2
Maridiant Fragment (O)
Golems Heart x2
Globe of Imperial Blood
Sonic Res 40
Good Luck +2
Feather Falling
Draconic Soul Gem
Striding 30%
Vitality 20
Blindness Immunity

Any feedback much appreciated. This thread and Eth's video's were guideposts for me. Thanks.

Lanciana Vess
Kyber Server

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

Here is my equipment list at the moment without the Gloves of the Arcane Soldier or LGS items which I am working on. Finished Slavers Set and using Abashi.

Armor Flawless Shadow Dragon Armor DR30/60 Ghostly Fortification +130% From The Shadows




Greetings,

assuming you are using the build Eth posted, how do you manage the ASF from the armor? Unless I'm mistaken, you are 20% short of ASF reduction.

Carry on!

[SilvanDDO]

Greetings,

assuming you are using the build Eth posted, how do you manage the ASF from the armor? Unless I'm mistaken, you are 20% short of ASF reduction.

Carry on!

Sorry for the late response. I have been playing something very close modified for Hvy Shadow Armor so I get the DR with ASF 15% from Elf Racial Tree, 15% Augment, 5% Eld Knight Tree,

[Grace_ana]

Have you revised your gear list since Ravenloft, sentient weapons, and the new necro set?

[Dread131313]

Gear list in the OP isn't up to date (pre slavers gear), but everything listed there isn't particularly hard to acquire.
Since the build doesn't rely on stats really, it's rather one of the easier builds to gear for.


For priorities:
Pansophic circlet should be the highest priority on your list.
Easiest to acquire, however pretty rare. Have to farm to ransack or just before, and pray to the loot gods each time.


Noxious embers (cheap alternative would be the ring from slavers now). Those two items cover all your generic spellpowers and crit chances.
Aqcuired from a level 17 heroic raid. "Black Abbot". Not exactly easy to obtain.


Legendary Festering Mummy Wrappings really increases your healing potential.
Gotten from "Search and Rescue" for legendary, have to run epic one, which is level 31. AND you have to get them from the RED DRAGON chest, which means you have to kill a red dragon in a level 31 epic dungeon. Again, not exactly an easy feat.


Gloves of the Arcane Soldier for the CL increase.
Obtained from a level 30 epic dungeon (there is no heroic version); "Defiler of the Just". A very difficult "Trial of the Archons" quest. Again, not easily obtainable.


LGS vacuum stick for more damage.
Green Steel... enough said.

Tell me again how the gear "...isn't particularly hard to acquire."?

I love this build. And I thankful for the time and thought put into it, but come on now.

[Grace_ana]

Tell me again how the gear "...isn't particularly hard to acquire."?

I love this build. And I thankful for the time and thought put into it, but come on now.

Panasophic isn't hard to get. I have like three of them without farming.

Heroic Abbott you can farm easily with a couple other people. It might take some runs, but it isn't "hard," per se.

Search and Rescue can be kind of a PITA if you aren't prepared, but we ran it for the wraps with just two of us and got them in a couple runs. Even if we hadn't gotten them fast, it wouldn't have been awful to farm.

DOJ loot is definitely more difficult in that you want a group to run it and have to wait for drops or get to 20 runs for the final loot list with all named items. Still, that's only 20 runs with a guaranteed drop. It probably varies by server, but Khyber has lots of raids run, including DOJ.

An LGS weapon is wicked easy to farm out. It doesn't take long, and you don't have to worry about cleansing. Leg Shroud is always being run by some group or another.

Also, farming for items is always easier ad faster with friends who pass.