U31 Undead fighter

[BigErkyKid]

Hi folks,


The new update is bringing a lot of undead love via items (a lot of negative amplification, and negative spell power), together with a boost to the DPS for Kensei. Of course it is not super original to try to tie the two together, so here I am asking the usual people for some tips. Another option would be to go blade forged and take advantage of the enormous gains to repair amp, but I'd rather not for flavor reasons. This is work in progress.

Class split: So far I think Fighter 12 / 8 wizard is probably a good compromise. This buys you 3 level 4 spells (displacement, negative aura, and negative burst) and keeps a lot of the kensei goodies.

Race:I would probably go for elven characters to get a heavy armor on.
Negative healing:
Base with caster level 8:
Negative spellpower: 504 (210+25+18+60+32+24+40+30+20+15+30)
210 pansophic circlet
25 deathwyrm / alchemical pot
18 APs pale master
60 epic levels
32 implement (TF)
24 meridian fragment
40 scion of shadow fell
30 Divine ePLs x3
20 epic spell power: negative
15 fey form
30 heal
Negative energy amplification: 102 - 10 conduit, 72 mummy wrappings, 20 scion of shadow fell.
Note: Devil's handiwork does NOT stack with mummy wrappings.
Legendary feat:
Fighting style: I see advantages to SWF, TWF, THF. Probably SWF is a good compromise which allows for a nice orb.
Destiny: Legendary dreadnaught for MOAR DPS, but there might be interesting synergies with shadow dancer.
Feats and enhancements: Try to get T5 kensei + low tier defensive bonus. KTA seems mandatory. Feats would include PRR, maybe some tactics, and the "mandatory" ones for a melee. Total number of feats (+7 fighter, +2 wizard).

Critical chance
5 Magical training
3 Energy criticals ePL
22 Void lore
2 Insight spell lore
4 Energy critical Pale Master
= 36%

Critical damage
20% GS tier 1


Heals (without crit):

Death auras
Lesser death aura:
1d4=2.5 Base
2.5*spell power (6.04)= 2.5*6.04=15
15*neg amp (2.02): 15*2.02=30

Death aura (2d4+1 per 2 caster level)
2d4+4 = 9 Base
9*spell power (6.04)= 9*(100+504)/100 = 9*6.04=54
54*neg amp (2.02): 54*(100+102)/100 = 54*2.02=109

Negative energy burst (1d4+4 negative energy damage per 2 caster levels)
4d4+16 = 26 Base
26*6.04=157
157*2.02=317

On crit:
Lesser death aura: 30*2.2=66
Death aura: 109*2.2=239


Wraith form with wellspring of power
At level 12, the base duration of the auras is 54 seconds and it can be extended to 108. Wellspring has a cool down of 180 seconds. Calculations below using the uptime of wellspring.

B]Death auras[/B]
Lesser death aura:
1d4=2.5 Base
2.5*7.54=18
18*2.02=36

Death aura (2d4+1 per 2 caster levels)
2d4+6 = 11 Base
11*7.54=82
82*2.02=165

On crit:
Lesser death aura: 36*2.4=86
Death aura: 165*2.4=396


On hit healing:

Mummy wraps:
2d6+7= 14 Base
14*2.02=28

Shadow fell on hit
1d6 = 3.5 Base
3.5 *2.02=7



Defenses (vampire)
Total PRR: 225
12 Combatant
60 heavy armor
25 Stalwart
10 Pale master
60 Boots legendary / trinket + sightless
18 PLs
30 Blitz
10 epic feat

Total MRR: 122
12 combatant
25 stalwart
25 remnant clock
60 items

[Saekee]

will your death aura be strong enough for decent heals?

[BigErkyKid]

will your death aura be strong enough for decent heals?

That's what I am trying to figure out. Im putting together the final spell power. If it was ever enough, it is right now. There are a LOT of nice negative amp items going around, and the new mummy belt is awesome.

PS - 185 / 206 every 3 seconds is not bad.

[BigErkyKid]

Am I missing obvious sources of spell power? I'd need some assistance here haven't optimized casters in a looooong time.

By the way, this is without counting the boon of the undead. That should be on hit:

2d6+4 plus 1 per caster level.

Assume no caster level for lower bound:

11*2.38=26

Every caster level just adds to this. So add caster level 10, this is 21*2.38=50

Does anyone know how the caster levels work on those items?

[unbongwah]

I think ftr 8 / wiz 12 will be a better split for this sort of gish: you lose Power Surge & two feats (inc. Gtr Weap Spec); but gain wraith form, +4 caster lvls (NEB is MCL:10), and lvl 5 & 6 spells (inc. Tensers although the spell CD penalty might make it undesirable).

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Currently I am leveling up an Undead Tempest TWF Ranger. At 22 right now and expect to be a very capable build. 12 levels of wizard for wraith form is very beneficial, not to mention the increased caster levels for death aura and negative energy burst.

I'm using meld into darkness and elaborate parry plus thick skinned, making for good damage avoidance. I went Int based with harper tree, not to have to worry about spreading my stats too thin.

I definitely think there is enough neg amplification at end game to make a multi-class undead melee viable.

[Vhayre]

Am I missing obvious sources of spell power? I'd need some assistance here haven't optimized casters in a looooong time.

At first glance you could add the power over life and death EPL stance for another 30.
Heal seems somewhat low, an augment could add a few more points there.
EK will also give a small amount of universal spell power if you're spending any points in it.
My current ETR I've also been experimenting with the epic feat wellspring of power. I hit it before casting death aura and lesser death aura for 150 spellpower and the increased crit damage. This is with 12 wizard levels however so the cooldown on the feat coincides better with the duration on my extended death aura than it would for a lvl 8 caster.

Some of the bonuses you list on the other hand you may run into issues with. In particular the quality bonus from the celestial plate, since the negative energy absorption on it will reduce your healing by 27%. Yes, this still happens sadly.
The Deathwyrm cloak I would either swap in just for buffing or replace completely with potions since those are also an alchemical bonus. Beside the spellpower the cloak only offers you a green slot and 10% force absorption as soon as you can wear the mummy wrappings for negative amp.

If healing isn't keeping you up with scion of earth I can recommend using shadowfell. SWF attack speed will work nicely with the vampirism effect it gives.

Also want to add my vote to the 12 wizard. 8 fighter for feats is more than enough and I'd take wraith form and the better spells/cl over the 12th level kensai core any day. Tensers is really nice to have.

[Saekee]

wraiths drain CON on critical melee hits which might be fun if combined with a heavy CON draining weapon like ESpinal Tap or even good old fashioned WoP. Yes there is epic resistance to this sort of thing but at a fast rate of attacks it might still work.

[BigErkyKid]

At first glance you could add the power over life and death EPL stance for another 30.
Heal seems somewhat low, an augment could add a few more points there.
EK will also give a small amount of universal spell power if you're spending any points in it.
My current ETR I've also been experimenting with the epic feat wellspring of power. I hit it before casting death aura and lesser death aura for 150 spellpower and the increased crit damage. This is with 12 wizard levels however so the cooldown on the feat coincides better with the duration on my extended death aura than it would for a lvl 8 caster.

Some of the bonuses you list on the other hand you may run into issues with. In particular the quality bonus from the celestial plate, since the negative energy absorption on it will reduce your healing by 27%. Yes, this still happens sadly.
The Deathwyrm cloak I would either swap in just for buffing or replace completely with potions since those are also an alchemical bonus. Beside the spellpower the cloak only offers you a green slot and 10% force absorption as soon as you can wear the mummy wrappings for negative amp.

If healing isn't keeping you up with scion of earth I can recommend using shadowfell. SWF attack speed will work nicely with the vampirism effect it gives.

Also want to add my vote to the 12 wizard. 8 fighter for feats is more than enough and I'd take wraith form and the better spells/cl over the 12th level kensai core any day. Tensers is really nice to have.

Thanks guys, feedback much appreciated.

On the topic of 12/8 or 8/12: I really want power surge, but I'll consider other options. The tip on wellspring is really nice. An extended death aura goes for 24+3xCL so at lvl8 it is 96 seconds. At level 12 it is 2 minutes, giving 1 minute of non powered heals.
Currently on my tempest consecrated ground hits me for around 240 a tick and that's sufficient for a huge amount of mobs.

I do have 3x power over life and death, so I should count it.

Let me do an updated spell power:

Negative spellpower: 434
150 handiwork
25 deathwyrm / alchemical pot
18 APs pale master
60 epic levels
32 implement (TF)
24 meridian fragment
30 scion of earth / 40 scion of shadow fell
30 Divine ePLs x3
20 epic spell power: negative
15 fey form
30 heal

In scion thats 80*2.38=190 without counting crits, every 3 secs. In shadowfell it is 206, again without crits.

And not counting the boon of undead (does anyone know how that works with regards to ML on the inflict moderate?) nor the vampirism on shadow fell. Looks pretty solid to me.

The reason why I do not want to lose power surge is because it is a big chunk of damage: +6 from STR and +2 from INT for an STR build. +8 is a pretty darn high addition to base damage.

[Eth]

Craft a tier 1 LGS with 150 negative spellpower. It stacks with equipment bonus, so you can swap it in when casting Death Aura.
Might still be hard to get decent numbers. If you want a crazy death aura, you really need to build for crits aswell (maybe just make some swap sets for spellpower + crits, could even go for triple negative LGS equipment slots or something?). The only thing that counts are the bonuses you have at the moment when you cast it. It keeps those for the entire duration.

Also get the gloves from DoJ if you can, those raise the CL by another two.

Arcane warrior could be an interesting feat for such a build assuming death aura would generate melee power stacks, when it hits stuff (I have no idea if it does).

[dunklezhan]

I think ftr 8 / wiz 12 will be a better split for this sort of gish: you lose Power Surge & two feats (inc. Gtr Weap Spec); but gain wraith form, +4 caster lvls (NEB is MCL:10), and lvl 5 & 6 spells (inc. Tensers although the spell CD penalty might make it undesirable).

This works wellish (I have one, THF great axe horc) and is certainly survivable. But I went 12 wiz so that I could invest in mostly EK, all the way to T5, enough PM to get wraith - left overs I think went a teeny way into kensai and horc. Gets DA, LesserDA and Burst for heals, does very well out of it even with the low PRR/MRR I have in light armour. I see no reason you couldn't get some more ASF reduction and just stop at vampire instead of wraith and put the spare points in Kensai and wear tougher armour instead and it not work well.

I'd give it a go if I hadn't centered so much of my gear and enhancements etc into avoidance like dodge and incorporeal and making the most from heal ticks. I do love me a gish build.

I also have (on a server somewhere) an old Bladesinger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Elven_Bladesinger) build (tweaked, I didnt' bother with iron will and won't be bothering with OTWF for instance) which I'm running (very infrequently) as a lightly armoured TWF non-undead EK (so lots more points to put in fighter/race tree) to see how it actually levels - and the answer is it levels pretty well, but not spectacularly so. Again, haven't tried it since the kensai changes.

Anyway - be interested in seeing how it pans out for the OP.

[Kebtid]

Craft a tier 1 LGS with 150 negative spellpower. It stacks with equipment bonus, so you can swap it in when casting Death Aura.
Might still be hard to get decent numbers. If you want a crazy death aura, you really need to build for crits aswell (maybe just make some swap sets for spellpower + crits, could even go for triple negative LGS equipment slots or something?). The only thing that counts are the bonuses you have at the moment when you cast it. It keeps those for the entire duration.

Also get the gloves from DoJ if you can, those raise the CL by another two.

Arcane warrior could be an interesting feat for such a build assuming death aura would generate melee power stacks, when it hits stuff (I have no idea if it does).

No arca warrior doesnt work with aura sadly.

Lets make a petition so it works?
(cough cough totally wouldnt help my unarmed monk build, cough cough)

[Roland_D'Arabel]

No arca warrior doesnt work with aura sadly.

Lets make a petition so it works?
(cough cough totally wouldnt help my unarmed monk build, cough cough)

Does anyone know if arcane warrior works with warlock auras?

[Kebtid]

Does anyone know if arcane warrior works with warlock auras?

Works with warlock aura since every tick counts as new cast /havent tested since ive been away for a year, but my source is pretty informed about the state of the game

[BigErkyKid]

Does anyone know if arcane warrior works with warlock auras?

That's an interesting idea. Could there be a good fast cheap spell to rotate and keep stacks on? Do scrolls /wands build up stacks? I am thinking of casting say an ice storm with a scroll.

[BigErkyKid]

Craft a tier 1 LGS with 150 negative spellpower. It stacks with equipment bonus, so you can swap it in when casting Death Aura.
Might still be hard to get decent numbers. If you want a crazy death aura, you really need to build for crits aswell (maybe just make some swap sets for spellpower + crits, could even go for triple negative LGS equipment slots or something?). The only thing that counts are the bonuses you have at the moment when you cast it. It keeps those for the entire duration.

Also get the gloves from DoJ if you can, those raise the CL by another two.

Arcane warrior could be an interesting feat for such a build assuming death aura would generate melee power stacks, when it hits stuff (I have no idea if it does).

Thanks for the tip, really helpful to know that you only need it on initial cast. One could quick swap such thing.

[Vhayre]

wraiths drain CON on critical melee hits which might be fun if combined with a heavy CON draining weapon like ESpinal Tap or even good old fashioned WoP. Yes there is epic resistance to this sort of thing but at a fast rate of attacks it might still work.

This definitely works. My S&B wraith tank primarily uses epic spinal tap and the combined con drain usually leaves mobs helpless after the first attack sequence. Stunning shield + regular attacks after that also keep susceptible orange named mobs helpless permanently since being helpless actually increases the con damage done as well.


That's an interesting idea. Could there be a good fast cheap spell to rotate and keep stacks on? Do scrolls /wands build up stacks? I am thinking of casting say an ice storm with a scroll.

Tested this extensively and my conclusion was that you're basically screwed over for not being a warlock. Persistant AoEs only count the first cast, fire shield like abilities don't work, EK abilities do not increment it and anything that has the possibility to heal like death aura or cleric aura doesn't work and sadly this has been stated WAI:


As the feat's description on Live reads:

- Spells that are capable of healing via Positive, Negative, or Repair will not provide stacks, even if they can also have an offensive component.

So yes, both are WAI.

I would sign the petition to have it changed too :p

[Eth]

Tested this extensively and my conclusion was that you're basically screwed over for not being a warlock. Persistant AoEs only count the first cast, fire shield like abilities don't work, EK abilities do not increment it and anything that has the possibility to heal like death aura or cleric aura doesn't work and sadly this has been stated WAI:


Thanks for testing.
If any enhancement tree deserves some love of synergyzing with arcane warrior it should be EK, but of course it doesn't. Instead it's the warlock aura that works. Good job, turbine...lol

[Saekee]

with such a high neg spell power perhaps splash 4 cleric for NEB (21 AP though) and spam it for arcane warrior stacks on a vampire (8 wiz)? Probably not the best option but thinking out loud.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

That's an interesting idea. Could there be a good fast cheap spell to rotate and keep stacks on? Do scrolls /wands build up stacks? I am thinking of casting say an ice storm with a scroll.

Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds charges Empyrean Magic. It might charge this up too?

[Kebtid]

Eternal Wand of Cure Minor Wounds charges Empyrean Magic. It might charge this up too?

Nah its only on damage cast, so you actually need to damage your foe.
As formerly said by others aoes only count on first tick.

But from my tests i found out couple dumb things, example gmaster of flowers special monk attacks charge arcane warrior, angel slas also charge, yet eldritch cleave doesnt.

That feat literally has almost apsolutely no use on almost all non warlock melle builds

[BigErkyKid]

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated!

Now on negative healing amp. Usually for equipment different hamps stack, as long as they are not the same type. So for items we have exceptional, equipment, competence and others. They all stack together.

However I just checked and both the mummy belt and the orb have PROFANE as negative amp. Has anyone checked if they stack together? ehem Eth?

Also, does anyone know the level at which the belt casts the inflict moderate wounds?

2d6+4 plus 1 per caster level.

But what is the effective caster level of the item?

Thanks in advance!

[BigErkyKid]

Nah its only on damage cast, so you actually need to damage your foe.
As formerly said by others aoes only count on first tick.

But from my tests i found out couple dumb things, example gmaster of flowers special monk attacks charge arcane warrior, angel slas also charge, yet eldritch cleave doesnt.

That feat literally has almost apsolutely no use on almost all non warlock melle builds

That really sucks. I don't think that casting say magic missile or anything cheap like that would be worth it then on SWF. Too many attack interruptions. And with that hard to build up stacks high anyway. I guess it really is a warlock only feat.

[BigErkyKid]

This definitely works. My S&B wraith tank primarily uses epic spinal tap and the combined con drain usually leaves mobs helpless after the first attack sequence. Stunning shield + regular attacks after that also keep susceptible orange named mobs helpless permanently since being helpless actually increases the con damage done as well.


It's 1d6 (3.5) CON on crit from wrath and +3d4 (7.5)on crit, and 3 CON on hit.

So with a crit profile of 16-20, 5/20 crits, 1/20 misses, that's

(5/20)*(3.5+7.5+3)+(14/20)*(3)+(1/20)*(0) ~ 5.6 CON per hit.

with a single weapon fighter there are on average around 3 hits per second. That's 15 CON per second.

I am not sure right now what the CON values are for LE mobs. Anyone any tip on that?

[Eth]

I am not sure right now what the CON values are for LE mobs. Anyone any tip on that?

I regularly see rainbow procs that drain stupid numbers like 80+. You should be able to drain for quite some time before they run out of stats to drain (in other words, by that point the mob should be dead anyway...). On elite they also regenerate stat damage rather quickly.

[BigErkyKid]

I regularly see rainbow procs that drain stupid numbers like 80+. You should be able to drain for quite some time before they run out of stats to drain (in other words, by that point the mob should be dead anyway...). On elite they also regenerate stat damage rather quickly.

Thanks! It is also my impression that CON / stat damaging / level draining has ceased to be a tactic, but I am always willing to be convinced. That's why I didn't even mention the levels draining of the vampire. A nightmare with PSWF and a ruby of endless night could be a funny woo woo knife though in vampire shroud, but it would probably be more of a funny build than anything.

[Eth]

Thanks! It is also my impression that CON / stat damaging / level draining has ceased to be a tactic, but I am always willing to be convinced. That's why I didn't even mention the levels draining of the vampire. A nightmare with PSWF and a ruby of endless night could be a funny woo woo knife though in vampire shroud, but it would probably be more of a funny build than anything.

I mean you can still use draining as a debuff. Less Con = less Fort save = easier stuns.... but that sounds pretty slow. I guess it's a bonus, but I wouldn't build around it.

[BigErkyKid]

with such a high neg spell power perhaps splash 4 cleric for NEB (21 AP though) and spam it for arcane warrior stacks on a vampire (8 wiz)? Probably not the best option but thinking out loud.

Sorry didn't see this. I think the problem here would be the AP really :(

[BigErkyKid]

Jeez! Did they just add 20 MP to the 4th core in kensei?

[BigErkyKid]

Jeez! Did they just add 20 MP to the 4th core in kensei?

Given that they added so much MP, I am starting to think that BF and pots if you need to survive extreme challenges is just better. The whole point of a vampire build is to be able to increase DPS by avoiding downtime combat (jumping to heal and what not), but right now it is giving up on 20 MP, 15% DBs right of the bat. Time to go back to the drawing board.

[Stormraiser]

3 Levels of bard. Swashbuckling. Swashbuckling with an orb or with a shield

[Saekee]

3 Levels of bard. Swashbuckling. Swashbuckling with an orb or with a shield

Yes, maybe building on the light picks crit range with 8 fighter then 9 wiz; PSWF will give a minor boost to vamp level drain. Sure, it is not much, but it is at least a synergy. Then run in SD for evasion & incorp & pray that the vamp light vulnerability does not stack with the SD shadow form's...

[Vhayre]

Yes, maybe building on the light picks crit range with 8 fighter then 9 wiz; PSWF will give a minor boost to vamp level drain. Sure, it is not much, but it is at least a synergy. Then run in SD for evasion & incorp & pray that the vamp light vulnerability does not stack with the SD shadow form's...

Shadow form cancels undead forms. I know this because I aspired to be an incorporeal lich this one time :(

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Thanks for testing.
If any enhancement tree deserves some love of synergyzing with arcane warrior it should be EK, but of course it doesn't. Instead it's the warlock aura that works. Good job, turbine...lol

the weapon imbues and arcane cleaves should scale with spp and proc arcane warrior. fixed.

except for the rest of the tree.

[HuneyMunster]

I posted this build a few days ago for 12wiz 6 fighter 2 monk. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475493-PDK-Center-Undead-Kensei-%2812wiz-6ft-2mnk%29-build

Now that I know Arcane Warrior don't proc off death aura ticks it looks like gotta spam level 1 spells like sonic blast and burning hands as well as using ice storm/firewall and Elders/Niac dots to help build up the stacks.


Im now thinking of tweaking it and drop 2 monk for 2 warlock. Would lose evasion though but can just use Shadowmail as it does not have arcane spell fail even without the enlightened spirit enhancements to remove it.



Also, has anyone tested Half-Elf Dilettante: Warlock to see if the on damage 1d4 fire damage proc builds up stacks? Guess it will be hard to test without Lama server up. Though, I thinking it will not, but would be interesting if for some reason it did.

[Saekee]

Shadow form cancels undead forms. I know this because I aspired to be an incorporeal lich this one time :(

gahhh!

[BigErkyKid]

Updated OP with the healing values for heals under both wraith and vampire forms.

In end game melee nowadays there are (IMO) two routes. Dodge + limited aggro builds (assassin, acrobat), or overkill HP and heals builds (preferably also with CC / stuns). Bards, which IMHO are great right now in LE (fascinate, high dodge, decent DPS, good heals) would be a middle ground.

I am currently considering whether an US pure kensei might not even be that far from a self healing splash. With good hamp and positive spell power, this would be extremely survivable. And compared to a splashed build, keep some of the higher end DPS goodies that would make up for the suckiness of US.

Compare a defensive oriented fighter splash build, like the ones discussed here (vampire, wraith).

Assuming you go to 3rd core in kensei, in LD you have:

+50 Melee power
+1W
+Devastating critical
+5 base damage
+Action boost cool down
+6 seeker

And the US option has

+HPs
+At least equivalent healing, if not better
+17% DBs

Typically I'd say US is just dungen, but given how extremely hard the mobs hit, it might end up providing decent DPS through more combat time. I am not sure.

Any thoughts? Please keep in mind this is meant to be for LE raids and such.

[HuneyMunster]

Updated OP with the healing values for heals under both wraith and vampire forms.

In end game melee nowadays there are (IMO) two routes. Dodge + limited aggro builds (assassin, acrobat), or overkill HP and heals builds (preferably also with CC / stuns). Bards, which IMHO are great right now in LE (fascinate, high dodge, decent DPS, good heals) would be a middle ground.

I am currently considering whether an US pure kensei might not even be that far from a self healing splash. With good hamp and positive spell power, this would be extremely survivable. And compared to a splashed build, keep some of the higher end DPS goodies that would make up for the suckiness of US.

Compare a defensive oriented fighter splash build, like the ones discussed here (vampire, wraith).

Assuming you go to 3rd core in kensei, in LD you have:

+50 Melee power
+1W
+Devastating critical
+5 base damage
+Action boost cool down
+6 seeker

And the US option has

+HPs
+At least equivalent healing, if not better
+17% DBs

Typically I'd say US is just dungen, but given how extremely hard the mobs hit, it might end up providing decent DPS through more combat time. I am not sure.

Any thoughts? Please keep in mind this is meant to be for LE raids and such.

You could also consider DC as a destiny for pure fighter. The extra spell points for consecration and rejuv as well as getting healed with No Remorse from mobs dying. Once you get Dire Charge would think dc would be near no-fail on pure fighter.



Something that would have been a nice addition to Kensei Capstone would be evasion if wearing light or no armor. This would add synergy to the dodge, mobility, reed in the wind and agility enhancements of the Kensei tree for pure fighters. This would have allowed fighters to be able to change their armor type depending on the situation. In addition would have been nice if the Kensei weapon specs would apply to all weapons. Though would still lose some of the bonuses from the focus feats.

[darkspyre2000]

Wouldn't this feat bump your Death Aura & Negative Energy Burst up by +10 levels?

[BigErkyKid]

Wouldn't this feat bump your Death Aura & Negative Energy Burst up by +10 levels?

Maximum caster level. So it is good only if you are in a destiny that increases caster level.

Sadly enough undead fighter is a purely flavor build. After a lot of theorycrafting, it does not seem to be anything to grand.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Maximum caster level. So it is good only if you are in a destiny that increases caster level.

Sadly enough undead fighter is a purely flavor build. After a lot of theorycrafting, it does not seem to be anything to grand.

Everything except the FotM builds and best min/max builds could be described as "flavor" builds but does that mean the concept doesn't work for most content? I would argue no.

I am running a TWF 12 wiz 6 ranger 2 warlock, wraith build using the Arcane Warrior feat, int based focus on the Tempest tree and LD. I can contribute and carry my weight in almost all content, including LE quests. The LE raids are not something this build can handle easily so I don't play him in those cases.

Yes, it is a flavor build I suppose, but having leveled from 1 to 30, I can say that if a player enjoys this kind of build it is most definitely loads of fun and capable in almost every way.

[BigErkyKid]

Everything except the FotM builds and best min/max builds could be described as "flavor" builds but does that mean the concept doesn't work for most content? I would argue no.

I am running a TWF 12 wiz 6 ranger 2 warlock, wraith build using the Arcane Warrior feat, int based focus on the Tempest tree and LD. I can contribute and carry my weight in almost all content, including LE quests. The LE raids are not something this build can handle easily so I don't play him in those cases.

Yes, it is a flavor build I suppose, but having leveled from 1 to 30, I can say that if a player enjoys this kind of build it is most definitely loads of fun and capable in almost every way.

Absolutely, play whatever is fun for you! I am sure some people can do wonders with such build. My issue is that it is "hard capped" in its capacity.

I have very limited playtime though so if something is flavor to the point that I cannot contribute say 80% of a FOTM I don't consider playing it. But that's because I like playing cap only, so there is less room for just flavor.

That said, I am currently doing a CON/DEX TYWA dwarven ranger, so can't really be accused of riding the FOTM train.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Absolutely, play whatever is fun for you! I am sure some people can do wonders with such build. My issue is that it is "hard capped" in its capacity.

I have very limited playtime though so if something is flavor to the point that I cannot contribute say 80% of a FOTM I don't consider playing it. But that's because I like playing cap only, so there is less room for just flavor.

That said, I am currently doing a CON/DEX TYWA dwarven ranger, so can't really be accused of riding the FOTM train.

I am curious what you mean by hard capped?

[BigErkyKid]

I am curious what you mean by hard capped?

It is not an elite raiding build and not because of lack o gear or pls. Simply put the builds signature are heals but they don't amount for enough to heal through truly challenging content.

That's why in very hard content you d be better off with going towards pure fighter instead of this split.

This happens with a lot of flavor toons that aim for synergies that do not scale well to the top difficulties.