Rogue Acrobat Sweeping Strikes

[Strider1963]

Do vertigo and Combat mastery items up the trip DC? It doest show that it helps in the UI, but the display could be bugged. How's a person to know?

[MalarKan]

well, i havent played in a few months, but in my experience, IIRC, the different sources that boost your regular trip DC should also boost the DC of sweeping strikes as well. I recall having different results in my effectiveness of sweeping strikes when using a +15 trip DC and when not using it.

cheers! :)

[Strider1963]

Thanks for the response. Apparently the display is just flawed as when you equip a vertigo or combat mastery item your dc to trip stays the same. Yet another bug to be fixed that probably never will be.

[JOTMON]

not that many will notice, after the quarterstaff improved crit profile nerf to non niche specific weapons players dumped their qstaff build and moved on.

[Duana]

I was not aware those items affected the sweeping strikes DC. My understanding of the DC is - 10 + Rogue Level + Dexterity Modifier.

And I still dig my TA.

[Strider1963]

Combat mastery etc is supposed to affect the trip, but it doesn't show. As as Jotmon says, the crit profile nerf has hurt the qstaff builds. I just wanted a rogue life that was different from assassin as ive done that before. Also, I had accumulated 6 or 7 named staffs, so I just went acrobat for the flavor.

[JOTMON]

Combat mastery etc is supposed to affect the trip, but it doesn't show. As as Jotmon says, the crit profile nerf has hurt the qstaff builds. I just wanted a rogue life that was different from assassin as ive done that before. Also, I had accumulated 6 or 7 named staffs, so I just went acrobat for the flavor.

I packed away the named Qstaffs ...just in case... burned the rest...
Great crossbow pew pewer is solid.. especially once you get Divine Artiliary

[adrian69]

Combat mastery etc is supposed to affect the trip, but it doesn't show. As as Jotmon says, the crit profile nerf has hurt the qstaff builds. I just wanted a rogue life that was different from assassin as ive done that before. Also, I had accumulated 6 or 7 named staffs, so I just went acrobat for the flavor.

Acrobat wasn't hurt as many like to think by the nerf, it just wasn't ever top tier to begin with. It can be done endgame, but it requires lots of patience and skill, maybe more so than an assassin. However,


No, items do not affect sweeping strikes. Only dex+rogue level, which is lame. I tested this about a year ago before ranger pass. For TA rogues to truly be L-viable, sweeping strikes needs to be allowed to increase its DC through combat mastery and etc. However, their dps is pretty much fine as long as they don't get hit or have aggro.

Some Qstaffs still have good crit profiles.

Epic Bone Crusher is 16-20/2 and is 14-20/4 with tier 5 rogue, DC, with OC. or 14-20/5 with T5 rogue, LD, with OC. That's not much different that any other weapon, and you get the +15% attack speed bonus (20% capstone), which is fairly huge. It's more of a playstyle thing. I think people complaint is that TF should have extended threat range on blunt weapons to make the viable. A TF Qstaff is ok, but I'll sacrifice 3 dice for +4 range anytime.

[Bacab]

not that many will notice, after the quarterstaff improved crit profile nerf to non niche specific weapons players dumped their qstaff build and moved on.

Heyas Jotmon, can you elaborate on this thought.

I came back in Dec or Jan...so I am unsure what you mean.

[unbongwah]

Update 28 nerfed a bunch of stacking crit range bonuses - in particular, crit bonuses which were doubled by Improved Crit feats - which impacted a lot of builds. Among staff builds, the hardest hit were Sireth builds using Div Crusader:

Old crit profile: 18-20/x2 base -> 17-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 16-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 11-20/x3 IC:Blunt (doubles crit range)
New crit profile: 16-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 14-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 13-20/x3 IC:Blunt (adds +1 to crit range on staves)


Sireth's base crit range was increased to compensate partially for Imp Crit nerf, but it doesn't make up for Staff Spec and Celestial Champion's bonuses no longer being doubled, unfortunately.

The silver lining: LD Acrobats using non-Sireth staves were unaffected, because Pulverizer now stacks with other crit bonuses, so they wind up the same. [EDIT: but Pulverizer still does nothing for Sireth, since it does slash/pierce dmg.] E.g., Elemental Bloom:

Old crit profile: 19-20/x3 base -> 18-20/x4 Staff Spec -> 15-20/x4 IC:Blunt (Pulverizer didn't stack w/SS, so no point in taking it on Acrobats pre-U28)
New crit profile: 18-20/x3 base -> 17-20/x4 Staff Spec -> 16-20/x4 Pulverizer -> 15-20/x4 IC:B


Add Overwhelming + Devastating Crit to make it 15-18/x4 19-20/x6.

EDIT: the real problem with Acrobats these days IMO is TWF Assassins have higher single-target DPS while Tempests have better AoE DPS thanks to Dance of Death, which seats them in flavor build territory. The crit nerfs just exaggerate the DPS gap in certain cases. But then, staff builds have always been outliers, so nothing new there...

[Bacab]

Update 28 nerfed a bunch of stacking crit range bonuses - in particular, crit bonuses which were doubled by Improved Crit feats - which impacted a lot of builds. Among staff builds, the hardest hit were Sireth builds using Div Crusader:

Old crit profile: 18-20/x2 base -> 17-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 16-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 11-20/x3 IC:Blunt (doubles crit range)
New crit profile: 16-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x3 Staff Spec -> 14-20/x3 Celestial Champion -> 13-20/x3 IC:Blunt (adds +1 to crit range on staves)


Sireth's base crit range was increased to compensate partially for Imp Crit nerf, but it doesn't make up for Staff Spec and Celestial Champion's bonuses no longer being doubled, unfortunately.

The silver lining: LD Acrobats using non-Sireth staves were unaffected, because Pulverizer now stacks with other crit bonuses, so they wind up the same. [EDIT: but Pulverizer still does nothing for Sireth, since it does slash/pierce dmg.] E.g., Elemental Bloom:

Old crit profile: 19-20/x3 base -> 18-20/x4 Staff Spec -> 15-20/x4 IC:Blunt (Pulverizer didn't stack w/SS, so no point in taking it on Acrobats pre-U28)
New crit profile: 18-20/x3 base -> 17-20/x4 Staff Spec -> 16-20/x4 Pulverizer -> 15-20/x4 IC:B


Add Overwhelming + Devastating Crit to make it 15-18/x4 19-20/x6.

EDIT: the real problem with Acrobats these days IMO is TWF Assassins have higher single-target DPS while Tempests have better AoE DPS thanks to Dance of Death, which seats them in flavor build territory. The crit nerfs just exaggerate the DPS gap in certain cases. But then, staff builds have always been outliers, so nothing new there...

Thanks man...tried to rep...gotta spread it around etc...

That last part made me sad to hear about THF-Acrobat being a flavor build.

I did my ROG life as an 16ROG/2MNK (dinged 20 from and TRed) and did Monk life as a 9ROG/9MNK (dinged 20 and took 2 monk levels for monk PL)

In heroic content it was as super fun, but obviously not optimal...I have been toying with doing a pure ROG THF acrobat...Warforged with glancing blows etc...but yeah I was running outta steam later in my heroic lives...

Anyway thanks for the clarification.

[Miow]

I packed away the named Qstaffs ...just in case... burned the rest...
Great crossbow pew pewer is solid.. especially once you get Divine Artiliary

my druid / rogue does good damage he is just a little squish.

[Gljosh]

Do vertigo and Combat mastery items up the trip DC? It doest show that it helps in the UI, but the display could be bugged. How's a person to know?

I have noticed I trip "more frequently" when I use Light Unending which has a +8 Vertigo. Also, I found this

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/459548-Sweeping-Strikes-__TYPO?

[unbongwah]

That last part made me sad to hear about THF-Acrobat being a flavor build.
Well, "flavor build" might be the wrong way of putting it. Obviously you're going to have better AoE DPS than Assassins, which is kinda your thing as an Acrobat. Yet at the same time, two of the biggest DPS bonuses from Acrobat are atk speed and doublestrike, neither of which applies to Cleave atks. So when you're Cleaving, you're not getting the full benefit of Acro-specific DPS bonuses; but when you're using regular atks, an Assassin will out-DPS you vs single targets. So then you're kinda counting on glancing blows+capstone ("After tumbling, for 6 seconds your basic attacks with two handed weapons strike two targets per swing instead of one and gain On Vorpal: Your target is knocked down.") to help make your Acrobat special compared to other melee builds.

Plus part of what made staff builds special was their higher atk speed; but then along comes GSWF, with +30% atk speed while keeping the +1.5x dmg mod, and you're not pigeon-holed into using a single weapon type. So I kinda feel like Swashbuckler stole a lot of Acrobats' thunder and never quite got it back... :rolleyes:

[Bacab]

Well, "flavor build" might be the wrong way of putting it. Obviously you're going to have better AoE DPS than Assassins, which is kinda your thing as an Acrobat. Yet at the same time, two of the biggest DPS bonuses from Acrobat are atk speed and doublestrike, neither of which applies to Cleave atks. So when you're Cleaving, you're not getting the full benefit of Acro-specific DPS bonuses; but when you're using regular atks, an Assassin will out-DPS you vs single targets. So then you're kinda counting on glancing blows+capstone ("After tumbling, for 6 seconds your basic attacks with two handed weapons strike two targets per swing instead of one and gain On Vorpal: Your target is knocked down.") to help make your Acrobat special compared to other melee builds.

Plus part of what made staff builds special was their higher atk speed; but then along comes GSWF, with +30% atk speed while keeping the +1.5x dmg mod, and you're not pigeon-holed into using a single weapon type. So I kinda feel like Swashbuckler stole a lot of Acrobats' thunder and never quite got it back... :rolleyes:

Ahhh, that makes sense...I did a swashbuckler like 2 lives ago and was amazed at how good the DPS was. You helped with that build too btw.

So THF-Acrobat was kinda proxy-nerfed it sounds like.

[QuantumFX]

Do vertigo and Combat mastery items up the trip DC? It doesn't show that it helps in the UI, but the display could be bugged. How's a person to know?

The display has been effed up since forever. But, yes, as of Update 30, items that affect trip also affect sweeping strikes. Know the Angles does as well. You will see a difference in level 30+ quests if you forget your KtA or a vertigo item. The one major trap to look out for is the Improved Trip feat. (It does not give a bonus to trip, it merely replaces the attack with a different one.)

The people who are reporting that nothing affects it are confusing Sweeping Strikes with Lay Waste.


Combat mastery etc is supposed to affect the trip, but it doesn't show. As as Jotmon says, the crit profile nerf has hurt the qstaff builds. I just wanted a rogue life that was different from assassin as ive done that before. Also, I had accumulated 6 or 7 named staffs, so I just went acrobat for the flavor.

Nothing wrong with that. I did 9 EPLs over an iconic and a human incarnation and it’s main drawback is that the primary physical defenses on the character are all or nothing defenses. (Concealment, Incorpreality, Dodge) So, you tend to need to act fast when you get hit. I also went with the THF chain over PA/Cleave/Great Cleave. As a rogue, Precision is the combat stance you want. And, as mentioned, cleave/great cleave isn't good when you're talking Doublestrike/attack speed boosts. However, THF and the capstone ability make the AoE damage gorgeous to look at.