PC Hardware Chat

[J-2]

Talk strayed last night in another thread and I'd like to not hijack that thread.
However, we were having a delightful and civil chat about it, and more was left overnight for me to drink my coffee over this morning.
Its been a while since thats happened. Therefore, I begin a new thread for that chat here.

It began when for a medley of reasons, I posted that I had specd out a new windows 7 box. (Reposted here)
I've also added a few line items representing components I already have, marked (*).

Asus Crosshair V Formula Z AMD 990FX + SB950 8 x SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX-----------------------$220.00
AMD FX-6350 Vishera 6-Core 3.9 GHz Socket AM3+ 125W-------------------------------------------$130.00
G.SKILL TridentX Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM PC3-19200---------------------------$194.00
MSI GeForce GTX 960 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ATX----------$205.00
SILVERSTONE HE02 CPU Cooler-------------------------------------------------------------------$067.00
Thermaltake CL-F009-PL12BU-A 120mm Luna Series Quiet High Airflow Case Fan--------------------$048.00(q3)
WD VelociRaptor 300GB Workstation Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 10000 RPM, SATA III, 32 MB Cache------$384.00(q2)
ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS-------------------------------$020.00
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 32-bit - OEM---------------------------------------------$140.00
ViewSonic VX2757-mhd 27" Black 2ms (GTG), HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD-------------------$220.00
Logitech G600MMO Gaming Mouse - Black---------------------------------------------------------$058.00(*)
RAZER Blackwidow Tournament Edition Gaming Mechanical Keyboard--------------------------------$080.00(*)
SILVERSTONE Strider PS-ST65F-PT 650W ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS Modular----------------------------$135.00(*)
XCLIO Windtunnel Fully Black Finish 1.0 mm SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case ---------$109.00(*)
Total without tax, shipping and actually shopping around for best price----------------------$2010.00

That is essentially a modern version of the design I currently use for my cadd workstation which is now 8 years old and still going strong.
I am a guy that leans towards quality, longevity, and problem free use. A bad computer will actually make you not want to run it.
Admittedly, this is overkill for running DDO only. I have other reasons for stacking it fairly well.

Thrudh made an excellent comment regarding going with SSD versus the WD Velociraptor HDD's.
Last time I spec'd them out, SSD's were more expensive per GB, but his argument convinced me to relook into that again today.

BrokenButton also suggested ramstacking it and utilizing a ram drive, which was my thought as well.

Anyone else want to share a hardware or configuration change that significantly helped improve their game?

[Tyrande]

You are spending over $2000 on a machine without SSD and without a NVIDIA 970GTX or better?!?

Yeah, $384 for a 300GB hard drive is too expensive. With that price you might as well get a Samsung 1TB SSD, on sale today for $260 only.

[Dragavon]

Choosing Velociraptor drives instead of SSD and 32 bits windows on a machine with 32GB ram? yeah right :rolleyes:

[J-2]

No, $384 is for (2) hard drives at $192.00 each.
I generally get the OS installed install some major software, and then clone it to the other in case something ever happens.
I use the second drive as a storage drive as well.
Those velociraptors are very nice, and have served me well over the years. I have 4 of them in my current rig.

I prefer to have numerous smaller HD's. It spreads out the usage since my FSB can take the throughput.
I often find myself listening to music, downloading something, and playing a video game all at the same time.

I also wouldn't need a TB for each, but maybe a TB total.

[J-2]

Choosing Velociraptor drives instead of SSD and 32 bits windows on a machine with 32GB ram? yeah right :rolleyes:

Actually, win7 would not make much use of that unless I put it into a diff config, or use a virtual machine.
Also on that note, memory heatsinks are so cheap nowadays. They glue them on, and after a few years, the thermal shock does get the better of them, and they will usually be the first component that fails. Better to have a few extras.

[-Samaka-]

Actually, win7 would not make much use of that unless I put it into a diff config, or use a virtual machine.
Also on that note, memory heatsinks are so cheap nowadays. They glue them on, and after a few years, the thermal shock does get the better of them, and they will usually be the first component that fails. Better to have a few extras.

I mentioned this in the other thread... you've indicated the machine you are playing on now is your CADD workstation and you do not want to upgrade it becase you'd have to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the software... however, you also indicated that the machine could be upgraded to Windows 8.

So, why don't you just simply get a new hard drive, install that, install Windows 7 or 8 on it along with a boot loader... then you could just dual boot to WinXP for your CADD stuff and to a newer Windows version to play DDO without the store crashing issues you've been having. A lot cheaper in the long run than buying a whole new system to play DDO on, especially if, as you say, the system you have now is already compatible with Win7/8. :)

[J-2]

You are spending over $2000 on a machine without SSD and without a NVIDIA 970GTX or better?!?

Yeah, $384 for a 300GB hard drive is too expensive. With that price you might as well get a Samsung 1TB SSD, on sale today for $260 only.

I actually conceded on the video side, and would prefer a PNY Nvidia Quadro. They are great cadd cards, and worth the money, but my older cadd software wouldnt really be able to take advantage of it. CREO might be a little bit more stabile, but autocad and microstation wouldn't care much.

[Dragavon]

No, $384 is for (2) hard drives at $192.00 each.
I generally get the OS installed install some major software, and then clone it to the other in case something ever happens.
I use the second drive as a storage drive as well.
Those velociraptors are very nice, and have served me well over the years. I have 4 of them in my current rig.

I prefer to have numerous smaller HD's. It spreads out the usage since my FSB can take the throughput.
I often find myself listening to music, downloading something, and playing a video game all at the same time.

I also wouldn't need a TB for each, but maybe a TB total.

I am making an assumption here, but you have never tried a PC with SSD?

Come back when you have and tell us that you still want those stone age Veliciraptors :p

[BurnerD]

I am making an assumption here, but you have never tried a PC with SSD?

Come back when you have and tell us that you still want those stone age Veliciraptors :p

Yep SSD Drives are a significant improvement in performance. I wouldn't build a PC without them.

[Enoach]

I know this was suggested to you in another thread, but have you put any thought into just adding a harddrive and duel boot your existing computer?

You could do this much cheaper and if it still does not solve the problem you know building the system will be a waste of your resources.

[J-2]

I mentioned this in the other thread... you've indicated the machine you are playing on now is your CADD workstation and you do not want to upgrade it becase you'd have to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the software... however, you also indicated that the machine could be upgraded to Windows 8.

So, why don't you just simply get a new hard drive, install that, install Windows 7 or 8 on it along with a boot loader... then you could just dual boot to WinXP for your CADD stuff and to a newer Windows version to play DDO without the store crashing issues you've been having. A lot cheaper in the long run than buying a whole new system to play DDO on, especially if, as you say, the system you have now is already compatible with Win7/8. :)

I'd still have to purchase the OS at $140.00 and a new 150G WD Velociraptor HD for $131.00 (my current boot disk is 80G, and kinda full).
Also, LOTR says they have a fix for this problem. Its DDO that is only saying nothing at all.
If I spend $270.00 unnecessarily, im going to be madder than I am now.
Their silence has left me in limbo, and im unsure what I should do.

The dualboot is a workaround. I would actually like to be able to run multiple PC's again. I used to run 4, but I did finally let my 98se boxes go.
I would love to invest in a new box for me, and it will take me a long time to save up for it, but that would be money well spent.
Im unlikely to cheap out. Everytime I've done that, its been disastrous, and I wished I hadn't done it.

[-Samaka-]

I know this was suggested to you in another thread, but have you put any thought into just adding a harddrive and duel boot your existing computer?

You could do this much cheaper and if it still does not solve the problem you know building the system will be a waste of your resources.

I've suggested the dual-boot option to him in both the other thread and just a couple posts ago in this very thread.

To me, the dual-boot option seems like the best option for him. He can keep using the computer he has and get the fix to the DDO store he so desperately wants!

Heck, buy an SSD and use that for dual-booting and you'll get a marked improvement in DDO loading times as well! ;)

[-Samaka-]

I'd still have to purchase the OS at $140.00 and a new 150G WD Velociraptor HD for $131.00 (my current boot disk is 80G, and kinda full).
Also, LOTR says they have a fix for this problem. Its DDO that is only saying nothing at all.
If I spend $270.00 unnecessarily, im going to be madder than I am now.
Their silence has left me in limbo, and im unsure what I should do.

The dualboot is a workaround. I would actually like to be able to run multiple PC's again. I used to run 4, but I did finally let my 98se boxes go.
I would love to invest in a new box for me, and it will take me a long time to save up for it, but that would be money well spent.
Im unlikely to cheap out. Everytime I've done that, its been disastrous, and I wished I hadn't done it.

Ah, I thought you'd of had spare parts lying around as you seem to indicate you like to have backups of things. As for Win7 or Win8... well you'd have to buy it eventually, it's not like you couldn't install it on your new hardware once you upgrade, so it's not like you'd be throwing the money away or anything.

Also, I'd give up expecting support for WinXP, the OS is officially unsupported by Microsoft and is well past end-of-life support. I'd start saving for that new computer if I were you, it will be your best bet in the long run. WinXP is dead! ;)

[J-2]

Ah, I thought you'd of had spare parts lying around as you seem to indicate you like to have backups of things. As for Win7 or Win8... well you'd have to buy it eventually, it's not like you couldn't install it on your new hardware once you upgrade, so it's not like you'd be throwing the money away or anything.

Also, I'd give up expecting support for WinXP, the OS is officially unsupported by Microsoft and is well past end-of-life support. I'd start saving for that new computer if I were you, it will be your best bet in the long run. WinXP is dead! ;)

True enough, the win7 might not be throwing money away, as I would like to own it, but I am on the fence regarding win8.1.
WinXP isnt dead, but its in 'maintenence mode' to be sure, and has been for quite some time.

I also have have lots of custom VB programming that doesnt flawlessly convert over to new versions.
Some of it i've even started redoing in VS 2010 in C#, but its a lot of work, and slow goings considering I still have much to learn in C#.

I do need to keep my XP box alive for as long as I can, or until my economical conditions improve.
Summer is coming, and thats usually my busy time. Hopefully I land a few jobs.

[Tyrande]

True enough, the win7 might not be throwing money away, as I would like to own it, but I am on the fence regarding win8.1.
WinXP isnt dead, but its in 'maintenence mode' to be sure, and has been for quite some time.

I also have have lots of custom VB programming that doesnt flawlessly convert over to new versions.
Some of it i've even started redoing in VS 2010 in C#, but its a lot of work, and slow goings considering I still have much to learn in C#.

I do need to keep my XP box alive for as long as I can, or until my economical conditions improve.
Summer is coming, and thats usually my busy time. Hopefully I land a few jobs.

Get one of the old Dell Precision M6300 to M6600 workstation laptops with Core 2 Extremes to run the old Windows XP stuff with old VB stuff. I believe they are on craigslist for like $150 each.

As for the better box, run with Windows 7 Professional (or Windows 8.1 Professional) 64 bits; with the new SSD and the new 32GB ram, and new NVIDIA 970 or better graphics card for gaming. Don't go Windows 10 as then you have no control over the graphics card driver versions. Windows 7 regular support is over January 13, 2015 as well; and with it browsers older than IE11 are not supported beyond paying MSFT for support after January 13, 2016.

I know DDO doesn't require much, but you do play other games; right? Like XCOM 2, Fallout 4, etc.?

[J-2]

Get one of the old Dell Precision M6300 to M6600 workstation laptops with Core 2 Extremes to run the old Windows XP stuff with old VB stuff. I believe they are on craigslist for like $150 each.

As for the better box, run with Windows 7 Professional (or Windows 8.1 Professional) 64 bits; with the new SSD and the new 32GB ram, and new NVIDIA 970 or better graphics card for gaming. Don't go Windows 10 as then you have no control over the graphics card driver versions. Windows 7 regular support is over January 13, 2015 as well; and with it browsers older than IE11 are not supported beyond paying MSFT for support after January 13, 2016.

I know DDO doesn't require much, but you do play other games; right? Like XCOM 2, Fallout 4, etc.?

Have no intention of win10 just for that reason, and I always go for the PRO versions.
Would like to go 64 bit, and its not much extra to have the hardware for it these days, but my old software crashes on it too much.

I dont play much new at the moment due to directX requirements and winXP's limitation on that aspect.
Im historically an old school gamer. I still play leisure suit larry (via dosbox), NWN diamond edition, bloodbowl, and I try out a lot of indie games.
I dont need breathtaking gfx and just prefer a good storyline. Im an old DM and have a great imagination.
DDO is actually the most modern game I play (or used to)
However, I might try a few newer games out even if i'm rarely happy with them.

[-Samaka-]

True enough, the win7 might not be throwing money away, as I would like to own it, but I am on the fence regarding win8.1.
WinXP isnt dead, but its in 'maintenence mode' to be sure, and has been for quite some time.

I also have have lots of custom VB programming that doesnt flawlessly convert over to new versions.
Some of it i've even started redoing in VS 2010 in C#, but its a lot of work, and slow goings considering I still have much to learn in C#.

I do need to keep my XP box alive for as long as I can, or until my economical conditions improve.
Summer is coming, and thats usually my busy time. Hopefully I land a few jobs.

I would say at the consumer level WinXP is, for all intents and purposes, dead. Sure, if you're the gov't and want to shell out big bucks you can pay for support, but that is obviously beyond the average consumer, and it seems most companies at this point. Why shell out for support when you can just stop supporting a 15-year-old operating system.

Grab a copy of Win7, dig up a hard drive from somewhere and try the dual-boot option. I dual boot OSX (hackintosh) and Win7. OSX for my daily computing needs and Win7 strictly for DDO. It works quite well for me. I only dual boot because for some reason DDO under OSX has no anti-aliasing option and the performance is significantly better under Windows as well. :(

Personally, I really hate the look of Windows 8... I suppose one day I will have to use it, or Windows 10, but as long as DDO runs on Win7 that is where I will be! ;)

[J-2]

Actually, its frigtening what the government still uses. XP would be a great big step up.
They do it because of the cost required to change all their existing software over and verify the original functionality is 100% maintained.

A job I recently did for 'a national agency that launches shuttles' required I submit a bill of material in ms excel 97 format.
Fortunately, thats still possible with office 2007.

I've heard the computers in charge of launching nuclear missles still run their original cobol and pascal programming.

[LightBear]

Personally, I really hate the look of Windows 8... I suppose one day I will have to use it, or Windows 10, but as long as DDO runs on Win7 that is where I will be! ;)There are little apps you can install that give you uou're trusty old taskbar and let you bootup on your desktop.http://www.classicshell.net/Anyway for the op:Go win8 or higher as it does dramatically increas your startuptime especially if you have a ssd as your boot drive. This does mean that you have no more time for making your morning coffee while the pc boots up. ;)If you can buy multiple ssds and put them in raid.Since your main work will be 3d modeling I'd say pick a videocard that is best suited for that, I have no clue how such a card performs while running ddo or what card you should pick for 3dmodeling.

[J-2]

I laughed at your second sentence, as I do hit the power button then go grab my morning coffee.
I've optimized my bootup fairly well under XP. Aside from the 27 second delay from my boot loader (i have XP installed on 3 of my 4 hd's), Im up in 30 seconds.

The look and feel of win8.1, even with those apps, is still horrid. Its likely I would become accustomed to it.
My bigger concern is software compatibility including my own personal vb/c++ programming.

[LightBear]

Actually, its frigtening what the government still uses. XP would be a great big step up.They do it because of the cost required to change all their existing software over and verify the original functionality is 100% maintained.A job I recently did for 'a national agency that launches shuttles' required I submit a bill of material in ms excel 97 format.Fortunately, thats still possible with office 2007.I've heard the computers in charge of launching nuclear missles still run their original cobol and pascal programming.With Office 2013 you can still output axcel 93-97 xls formats, where I live you get the question if you want to set openoffice or ms offices (in this case xlsx) as a default tho.And this is probably this article you're referring to?http://www.cbsnews.com/news/whos-minding-the-nuclear-weapons/

[Bolo_Grubb]

Start 8 http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ makes Windows 8 look and feel just like Windows 7

[J-2]

yes, though I initially heard about it via a radio interview on either coast to coast am or darkness radio.
That was the photo they attached to the show description. The old 5.25" floppy.

I used those once back in the day to store edtasm programs for a trs-80.

[-Samaka-]

Start 8 http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ makes Windows 8 look and feel just like Windows 7

Whenever I am forced to upgrade past Win7 I will definitely use Start8, or something similar... I really dislike the Metro user interface. I thought WinXP's 'Fisher-Price' default theme was bad... I have no words for Metro.

Actually, my boot time under Win7 is much faster than my boot time under OSX. Then again, I only have DDO and Firefox installed under Win7. I have exactly two icons on my desktop... the fewest I have ever had under any previous version of Windows! ;)

Though, under OSX I actually have zero icons... I like the Finder sidebar and Dock, made organizing files much easier!

My Win7 Desktop: http://s9.postimg.org/61h45repb/Desktop.png (Click as I didn't inline it, has been reduced by 50%)

[J-2]

the metro interface was designed for cell phones. They thought they would strong arm people into using it, and they failed.
I still chuckle at that comparative photo of the metro interface and AOL. Im sure someone will post it since I have swf disabled on this browser and cannot post pictures. Its easy to find since it practically became a meme. The similarities are stunning.

[-Samaka-]

the metro interface was designed for cell phones. They thought they would strong arm people into using it, and they failed.
I still chuckle at that comparative photo of the metro interface and AOL. Im sure someone will post it since I have swf disabled on this browser and cannot post pictures. Its easy to find since it practically became a meme. The similarities are stunning.

Ah, so that's why the forum attachments don't work for me. I hate Flash and have not had it installed for quite some time, not worth the security risk really.

However, there are a bunch of free image hosting sites out there. For posting here I use Post Image (http://www.postimg.org). It is quick and easy and provides a direct link as well as forum markup links for your uploaded image. :)

As for Metro, yea, no idea why they decided to push a touch-based phone/tablet interface onto mouse/keyboard users. I was very happy that Apple did not go that route and try to make us all use iOS style interfaces on OSX. They did add an iOS launcher type interface, but it is totally optional and they did not remove the Dock when they added it. Unlike Microsoft who replaced the Start menu with Metro... ick. ;)

[bsquishwizzy]

I laughed at your second sentence, as I do hit the power button then go grab my morning coffee.
I've optimized my bootup fairly well under XP. Aside from the 27 second delay from my boot loader (i have XP installed on 3 of my 4 hd's), Im up in 30 seconds.

The look and feel of win8.1, even with those apps, is still horrid. Its likely I would become accustomed to it.
My bigger concern is software compatibility including my own personal vb/c++ programming.

Please, provide details. What version of VB and/or C++?

[bsquishwizzy]

For the record, my development laptop is using Windows 8 / 8.1 / whatever. I actually selected that on purpose so that any of the stuff we developed in our department could be checked against the "new" interface. I can tell you, from experience, that the major issues with Windows 8 is that it's basically annoying.

That's probably the reason why Windows 10 went back to having the Start Menu and the task bar. I mean they hybridized the interface a bit to include some Windows 8 elements, but basically it's very Windows 7-esque.

[J-2]

Please, provide details. What version of VB and/or C++?

I have programs I still use from VB as far back as version 6 to 2005, and C++ from 2001 to 2005.
Most VB6 used to ran OK under 98se, but dont run in XP even under compatibility mode.
I think a large majority of the issues are only the short filenaming/long filenaming and other oddities where the programming extends beyond the constraints of the executable.

I actually have C+ as far back as borland turbo (dos based), but those programs are no longer required for anything except nostalgia.
Its unlikely the 3.5" diskettes would even work after all these years.

[Sam1313]

Actually, its frigtening what the government still uses. XP would be a great big step up.
They do it because of the cost required to change all their existing software over and verify the original functionality is 100% maintained.

A job I recently did for 'a national agency that launches shuttles' required I submit a bill of material in ms excel 97 format.
Fortunately, thats still possible with office 2007.

I've heard the computers in charge of launching nuclear missles still run their original cobol and pascal programming.

Redstone Arsenal, Huntsville Alabama. I can verify they are using Windows 7. Grissom Air force base, Peru Indiana. I can verify they are using windows 7.

[Stoner81]

Asus Crosshair V Formula Z AMD 990FX + SB950 8 x SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX-----------------------$220.00
AMD FX-6350 Vishera 6-Core 3.9 GHz Socket AM3+ 125W-------------------------------------------$130.00

Intel chips are better in pretty much every way possible, spending this much on a PC without an Intel chips is quite frankly mental.


G.SKILL TridentX Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM PC3-19200---------------------------$194.00

Not bad really though DDR4 is out now and should be a thought.


MSI GeForce GTX 960 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support ATX----------$205.00

Mid range card and not to bad for what it is, but again spending this much on a rig you should be looking at a GTX970 minimum imho.


SILVERSTONE HE02 CPU Cooler-------------------------------------------------------------------$067.00
Thermaltake CL-F009-PL12BU-A 120mm Luna Series Quiet High Airflow Case Fan--------------------$048.00(q3)

Never used so no comment.


WD VelociRaptor 300GB Workstation Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, 10000 RPM, SATA III, 32 MB Cache------$384.00(q2)

Not sure if serious? These things should be used as paper weights, go SSD and you will never EVER look back.


ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS-------------------------------$020.00

Pointless since everything is downloadable these days, buy an external for when you need one :)


Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 32-bit - OEM---------------------------------------------$140.00

Dear oh dear! Where to start... x86 architecture will not see more than 4GB of RAM ever! You want more than 4GB of RAM then go x64.


ViewSonic VX2757-mhd 27" Black 2ms (GTG), HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD-------------------$220.00

Never used so no comment.


Logitech G600MMO Gaming Mouse - Black---------------------------------------------------------$058.00(*)

Superb mouse I use one myself.


RAZER Blackwidow Tournament Edition Gaming Mechanical Keyboard--------------------------------$080.00(*)

Since you barely game this is pointless and can always be added at a later date.


SILVERSTONE Strider PS-ST65F-PT 650W ATX12V/EPS12V 80 PLUS Modular----------------------------$135.00(*)
XCLIO Windtunnel Fully Black Finish 1.0 mm SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case ---------$109.00(*)

Never used either so no comment.

The single biggest improvement generally these days is getting an SSD they are just stupid good/quick.

Stoner81.

[Captain_Wizbang]

You are spending over $2000 on a machine without SSD and without a NVIDIA 970GTX or better?!?

Yeah, $384 for a 300GB hard drive is too expensive. With that price you might as well get a Samsung 1TB SSD, on sale today for $260 only.


aye

[J-2]

I like the velociraptor drives, and moreso, I've developed a trust of them over the last 10 years, and 10 years before that with the raptor series.
Its a great point to consider, and I may try that out if I ever get an answer to my bug report.

[bsquishwizzy]

I have programs I still use from VB as far back as version 6 to 2005, and C++ from 2001 to 2005.
Most VB6 used to ran OK under 98se, but dont run in XP even under compatibility mode.
I think a large majority of the issues are only the short filenaming/long filenaming and other oddities where the programming extends beyond the constraints of the executable.

Well, 98se could be described as a 32-bit OS prototype. There were a couple of releases of 98, one of which was more like 95 and the other more like XP. In addition to file names, the other big thing was shutting off access to things like the PC’s parallel port.

But VB6 is about as dead and gone as you’re going to get. You might want to consider upping those apps to VB.NET. I think you can still get Sharp Develop which is a free IDE for .NET.

(The .NET compilers actually come with the .NET distribution, believe it or not.)


I actually have C+ as far back as borland turbo (dos based), but those programs are no longer required for anything except nostalgia.
Its unlikely the 3.5" diskettes would even work after all these years.

Heh. Yeah I remember Borland C/C++. I was working in v2.0 (I think) because Microsoft Visual C 1.0 and 1.5 sucked so enormously bad.

The C++ stuff now is basically all managed, although I’ve heard a few things about them moving it back to native again. That being said, there is very little there you’d be able to port up that was O/S dependent.

A couple of years ago I visited a small business that was considered a prime establishment in their field. The small shops runs pretty tight financially, so they tend to use a lot of stuff that is considered out of day. But I got there and I found they were still using all DOS setups. My jaw hit the frickin’ ground. The entire place was still using DOS (with a few exceptions).

[J-2]

yeah, VB6 was dead and gone a few years ago, but I made hundreds of small and pointed programs for it, programs that allowed me to do a few hours worth of work in seconds. As I need them, I do end up converting them up to either C# 2010 or VB 2005, assuming its time effective for me to do so. I also get bored occaisionally and dig one out that I think may be useful.

Most of the express versions of visual studio languages are available for free as well, provided you jump through MS's hoops. The C#2010 that I use was obtained for free. I'm still getting the hang of it and hammering out my style. I wish it had gui controls built into it. I've tried many of the third party ones, and very few worked to my liking, or were slightly beyond my current level of expertise to implement. That will change as more time goes by.

Fortunately, everytime I make something or convert something, I learn a few tips that I previously did not know, and that is the nature of programming. Its easy to search for things nowadays and be provided with potential answers in 0.6 seconds, but you do have to know what to search for, and thats the trick of it.

I actually use dos still, though only in a limited manner. I do a lot of custom front end calculators that interact with other 3rd party programs (usually autocad or excel). I primarily use it to invoke a program that has switches. As an example, I might have the front end create an autolisp script file, then open autocad and launch that script file. The result has autocad automatically create my drawings for me. Its accurate to 16 decimal places and can do it much faster than I can. In that manner, I can do 8 hours of cadd work in less than 1 minute. The remaining 7:59 can be spent finalizing certain details that are too dynamic to automate.

Video Example --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x8pVpnj9OY
This shows the calculation and drawing of a brick dome, arguably one of the toughest things to do in the refractory biz. Each course takes about an hour to calculate. That example works with a 24 course dome. Because a dome is a self supporting structure, if you make a mistake on course 1, it effects the accuracy of every course thereafter. Precision is required if the installer values his time. Some of the bricks cost 40 dollars per brick, and cutting them is a real pain due to their chemical makeup and density. Not only that, a dome can consist of 10,000 brick easily depending on the size, and while the installer cuts, the furnace cannot be used to make product.

[goodspeed]

Choosing Velociraptor drives instead of SSD and 32 bits windows on a machine with 32GB ram? yeah right :rolleyes:

lol didnt even catch the 32 bits. ya that would be just goofy.

also ditto on the intel chips. I used to go amd as I could find a comparable price to match intels cheaper on amd. However the last time I shopped and built one amd just dropped the ball. The price was just ridiculous comparing that for near the same price I got a haswell k that was greatly better. Figured I wouldn't need to heat it up but if I wanted to the option was there.


Oh ya one other thing.. well 2. One, make sure the case is big enough. Ud be suprised how big a dedicated (ALWAYS DEDICATED) card is. Sometimes it just wont clear so measure that sucker.

And 2, get a fan. I set aside the cheap fan with the intel chip and bought something evo I think it was. It was a big mother lol, but it keeps everything nice and chill in there. Now if I was gonna really race it id probably go for the cooling pipe but for regular use the big old fan attached to the cpu will do with some silver.


Also partspicker.com Its a nice place to find the best discounts and keep an eye out for them. I like to build a new pc a lil at a time as the sales come up. I got SWEET deal on a 530GB intel SSD back on cyber monday. cloned my older one to it then used the slightly old one to place inside a nice gamer lappy I got the same sales day.

[Thrudh]

If you program for a living, you better buy a newer OS just so you can learn to program on it.

You need to keep up with the times if you want the jobs to keep coming in.

[J-2]

I have to go 32bit. My cadd software would have to be repurchased. Those programs are incredibly expensive.

[Thrudh]

I have to go 32bit. My cadd software would have to be repurchased. Those programs are incredibly expensive.

Dual-boot or have two PCs. You can't stick with 32-bit software forever. Sure, some COBOL programmers never learned anything new and still have jobs, but a lot of those who stopped learning don't have programming jobs anymore.

If you can spend $500 on a video game, you can spend some money to keep your skills current.

[icekinslayer]

...its in 'maintenence mode'

It's not in maintenance mode, it's support has ended...no more updates, no more patches, no more support...use at your own risk, because there will be no more security updates...I'd switch pronto, if I was you...

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-support-help

[J-2]

You can purchase windows XP support today. https://gcn.com/blogs/pulse/2013/09/xp-support-for-a-price.aspx

As a freelance designer, I would only have to break away from my current consulting position and make my own business, or have my current CEO do it for me. She would do it, so long as I paid the cost and it didn't effect her profits.

I have already conceded many times over that winXP is not modern. Thats never been a point of contention here.

If I am understanding the correct definition of 'maintenance mode' it is a software that plods along but receives no updates or patches.
As I am currently running it, I am in fact keeping it alive, so it is not completely dead yet.
I'm not the only one either, as it still has a 20% global market share.

It runs my cadd software, my office software and my programming software (ie, the moneymakers) just fine.
It runs the vast majority of my games just fine (with 1 exception).
It runs my installed software just fine.
I can install new software and new hardware just fine.
Its playing my music right now just fine.
It displays my photography on my screensaver just fine.
It allows me to browse the web and write emails just fine (It even sends attachments).

I'm betting I can do the majority of what you can do on your advanced version of windows right now except open the DDO store successfully.
That problem is only from DDO trying to remarket their delorean like its a corvette.

[Enoach]

I have to go 32bit. My cadd software would have to be repurchased. Those programs are incredibly expensive.

I agree these are more expensive.

I long ago learned because I needed to reload my environment or deal with clients with both bleeding edge and much older OS's that the best solution for my development team was Virtual Machines. This also made it easy to get a new developer up and running. But its the solution of being able to run applications that wont install on a newer OS. The other advantage is it reduces down time when a reinstall is needed.

[SurlyYuri]

Will your your custom apps and scripts and such run in a virtual environment? Something else to consider is loading up Win10x64 for the fun stuffs and running the boring x86 work stuffs in a Hyper-V VM.

[J-2]

They should, but ive never tested them like that.
A few years ago I could crash acad 2004 by feeding it an excessivly long script file, somewhere around 124,000 lines.
It wasnt a memory issue either, and was likely an internal buffer.
Upgrading to acad 2010 fixed it, and have been unable to reproduce it, even when i purposely tortured it.

[PermaBanned]

You can purchase windows XP support today. https://gcn.com/blogs/pulse/2013/09/xp-support-for-a-price.aspxFrom the (September, 2013) article you linked: "The service will issue patches for critical vulnerabilities and some rated as important, but not for vulnerabilities rated moderate or low..." And for that one gets to pay $200 /year, with extra costs for "Custome Service" - did you pay extra costs for .Net support upgrades? And if .Net isn't considered a "vulnerability issue" would that even be a Custome Service option?

Lol reading the article you linked has not helped your case one bit. Good luck dude. Wanted to buy a one time computer to last for ages? Shoulda' bought a Mac ;) My '06 is zipping along beautifully still ^^