Let us know how you're doing in the Legendary raids (at all difficulty levels) [Archive]

Tahkhesis

12-18-2015, 07:36 PM

Tempest Spine seems great all difficulty levels. Not sure if Legendary Elite is comparable to the rumored Reaper mode, but I'm aok with it being hard. The outside seemed a little tame, but those red names inside...dios mio.

Yet to do HoX but looking forward to it.

Enjoyed the new quests, though the Sky one is pretty linear and even on LE didn't seem like it was very difficult--seemed en par with like an EH Demon Assault. The other one (forgot the name) offered some old-schoolish team dynamics which a lot of updates have been lacking.

The Shroud: LE was hard as hell and that's good. The portals do take forever to kill though. But the monsters hit hard, and they seemed scaled as opposed to just having inflated HP.

LH was kind of wonky. The first 3 parts were super fun, challenging, and took some time--like it was years ago before EDs, and crazy gear. The last 2 parts seemed really not on par though. Seemed like Harry and that Book were waaaaaaay easy to kill than the portals or even Kasquick. Just found that a little off.

Didn't do LN.

Not sure if this is the place to mention it, but the named loot is dynamite. The only other issue I personally have is that a lot of the loot gen kinda seems better. (I'll just end that thought, cause I don't think you want a whole loot thing going on here, but figured it was at least worth a brief mention)

Thanks for all the work you guys do, TS is pretty dynamite.

Assassination

12-18-2015, 07:42 PM

Tempest Spine seems great all difficulty levels. Not sure if Legendary Elite is comparable to the rumored Reaper mode, but I'm aok with it being hard. The outside seemed a little tame, but those red names inside...dios mio.

LH was kind of wonky. The first 3 parts were super fun, challenging, and took some time--like it was years ago before EDs, and crazy gear. The last 2 parts seemed really not on par though. Seemed like Harry and that Book were waaaaaaay easy to kill than the portals or even Kasquick. Just found that a little off.

I ran in this group with Tahk, and agree with this... Thanks for run Tahk, Josay on Gland

lifestaker

12-18-2015, 09:21 PM

Shroud - LH
First try completion, 11 man (had a DC at start and was not able to get in) no set healer though some people did take it on themselves to heal when it was needed. more then a few deaths from the same people in the raid, mostly getting caught off guard or swarmed.
Part 1: very slow going, the amount of Hp on those portals were problematic. Found it the normal mindlessness of part 1, but for a long time.
Part 2: Large Hp bosses, with crystal being over inflated as well. Think we had 4-6 people hitting it for 2 sets to get it to drop and only by a split second.
Part 3-5: Easy going for the most part. A bit of a fun when wall came up with people still working into the puzzles they only just got into, but rest of the raid was smooth.
Overall: Not let down, but not really wanting to farm it as much as heroic Shroud, and luckily due to the LGS being so much of a let down I find the entire grind not worth the time if there was anything better to do.
Improvements: Lower portal/crystal HP by a little bit to get people wanting to run it more with knowledge of getting at least some rewards. Increase HP of the main bosses in part 4 and 5 to compensate for the decreased hp earlier in the raid. Rework LGS as soon as able, the enhancements in many cases are just behind that of random gen. Add augment slots for augments prior to U29. Add spell casting Implement bonuses to weapons (be it upgraded or otherwise) legendary weapons forged from the pages of the codex should retain some magical ability to classify themselves as an implement.

Tempest Spine - LH
Full party, no dedicated healer.
All members of the raid did their part, something I personally have found to be odd as of late.
Enjoyed fact that nothing was messed with in the raid, though getting named heroic items from a legendary raid was 'nice'
Was a bit discouraged with the Str levers, was only able to get my str up to a 50 and was not able to pull them. Rumored to be around a 75 on leet from what i have been told, found this the really only point of issue. The str lever could be lowered a bit so that it is more reachable for classes that are not 100% str focused, or maybe adding some factor of maybe hitting the str lever or something else to unlock the doors.
Overall: not happy with the str levers, but I have always been a fan of TS so was grateful that it was not butchered.

Hound - LH
Full balanced party. 2 healing classes, though not sure who played heal bot.
Simple and mindless like it has always been.
Good party full of people who actually knew how to run hound the way it use to be ran made the raid a long water-cooler conversation.
Overall: I have always held a bit of dislike for hound, and this version of it was no different. Will still run it for a bit to stockpile ings in hopes that LGS is redone, but not expecting much from it in the ways of enjoyment.

As far as the quests (i know not asked for but figured I would comment)
I personally liked curse the sky, but not found the jelly rancher to be a pointless investment of time. All these 'kill everything to unlock the advancement lever' quests that have been put out are just lame. I know someone made these this way, but why? There is no value in forcing people to kill every single thing in an entire quest outside of aiming to build a quest against a play style, or to get some sort of pleasure in the senseless killing of compelled minions or mindless masses. I am sorry but I hate running after things that have the flee aggro built so high on their logic controllers more so when I am playing a melee character. I will not even get started on the god slime killing things on contact......

As far as the named items (again felt to say something)
I have not pulled many, but from what I saw of them, there will be some happy vendors out there. Sad when the random loot update gives better items then the updates named items.

Basura_Grande

12-18-2015, 09:29 PM

The one-shotting in LEs is insanely stupid.

So you ignore our feedback from Lamania and NOW THAT IT IS LIVE you're asking for it?

Deathdefy

12-18-2015, 09:40 PM

Just ran and completed LN Shroud in a pug which was my first experience with the content.

Part 1 was incredibly long and boring due to the portals' HP. The starting Orthon tagged me for 400hp right off the bat with a crossbow volley which was genuinely enjoyable as they used to be harmless at range.
Part 2 was stressful since it was a pure pug, which was good and nostalgic.
Part 3 was hilarious and made me want to murder a party member or two, which again was excellent.
Part 4 was trivial and very quick. I feel Harry's HP or attacks or something could use a buff.
Part 5 was fun. I was sad that the waves of mobs just repeated instead of having all fresh ones, but the waves that existed were fun. The Xoriat wave in particular had potential - maybe make the Beholder actually Red Named so it can't be incapacitated (which will instantly happen every time otherwise).

The book shot me in the face for 1100 force damage which was an amusing surprise (no seriously, it was good)! I'm reasonably sure the attack isn't ruin, and that it's actually an avoidable projectile (which I didn't avoid) which is better than just 'whoop you got aggro so you're dead'.

TL;DR LN Shroud was fun to pug. I felt the familiar feelings of frustration, annoyance and triumph which is probably the goal.

Part 1's portal HP could use a look though. It's LN, and there's no danger of a party wipe in part 1, so it's just unnecessarily protracted by the portal HP. Can combine that with speeding up Portal Keepers' raid failure magic if the concern is that raid mechanics will be ignored, so people still have to branch off to kill them.

Eldried

12-18-2015, 10:24 PM

LE TS:

We completed it with 4 people...

We were acctually 3 and a 4th joined when the boss was at 25%.

Sure we died a couple of times, but its really not hard to do it.

The Boss was tougher then on Lamania, which seemed to be the only change. You dont even have to gather the runes to make it to the end.

LE Shroud:

This was more appropriate!

We had a pretty good group, no Healer, 1 really good CC. Some warlocks, some ranged, some melees.
The CC was the key, and lots of pots were used to keep it up for part 1.

On the first 2 attempts we wiped in part one, due to portal keepers. After adjusting our tactics a bit, we managed to get past part 1.

Part 2 was also not easy. If you have the wrong combination of mobs it gets even harder. We had: Fire elemental, Kobold, Lizard and Devil. Which was tough, but the cat instead of Lizard would have been worse.

Took us 2 attempts of preping them to get all ready, then it worked flawless. Had some people ready at the crystal when we killed the mobs, and got it down in time. Lots of Death in this part. Its just hard with a random aggro teleporting devil running around mostly 1 hitting people(Not everyone but some). The elemental was the easiest to manage on an evasion toon.

Part 3 was fun and it looked like the wall was faster then before?(not sure) We had a competend group and puzzles were solved without problems and water distributed very fast. We saw pnøy 1 wall. Probably to fast for the second 1 to spawn.

Part 4 was a dissapointment. No change at all from Lamania. No challenge. Sure we had 2 death, but thos could even get raised and werent in Limbo like in Heroic Shroud.
1 rounder....

Part 5 was nice acctually. Got surprised by The Rakskhasa throwing Hellball(killing like 6 people at first hit) and as in part 1 CC was key to handle the trash easy.

Book was throwing Ruins and other spells(not sure if it also throws hellball).

I think the hardest parts are still part 1 and 2. Rest is managable.

Overall not to bad except for part 4.

122 Death total!

Silverleafeon

12-19-2015, 12:38 AM

LE TEmpest Spine ~ 2 hours, 2 attempts to kill boss, some released after Boss reset first time.
Full group of good players

Brought level 29 druid wolf pet to do STR levers. (79~80ish STR w/o improved Augments summoning or legendary feat)

Lot of deaths, but overall the raid smacked of old school fun.

Lots of pulling, door fighting, tactics to not deal with multiple bosses at the same time.
Fair amount of Rez scrolls used.

Forgot to remove FF first time blown off, second time forgot to keep back to wall.
Falling into active FireElemental is likely to kill you.

Andoris

12-19-2015, 02:05 AM

The one-shotting in LEs is insanely stupid.

So you ignore our feedback from Lamania and NOW THAT IT IS LIVE you're asking for it?

+1 Please see all of our feedback on Lamania on this.

Thank you

blerkington

12-19-2015, 02:13 AM

+1 Please see all of our feedback on Lamania on this.

Thank you

Hi,

Apparently none of that counts, for whatever reasons.

I'm starting to feel like I'm playing on a test server all the time. If someone could direct me to the production version of the game that'd be really nice.

In reply to the question in the original post, it seems like AC values for enemies are outpacing our ability to keep up with them. Seeing a lot more grazing hits than usual in the new content, particularly on harder settings.

Thanks.

Dandonk

12-19-2015, 02:58 AM

I still think the one-shotting is bad design. It leaves no room for tanks or healers, and not much for melees. It's more or less a ranged kite fest, with the occasional rez thrown in.

Edit: And the rubberbanding while people are still alive and active on the Sor'Jek platform in TS is extremely annoying.

bracelet

12-19-2015, 03:28 AM

LN Shroud 10 man due to early DCs. It was not a strong group but we made it through albeit with several deaths.
Part1: We had difficulty beating down the portals, but stayed on top of the portal keepers well enough to escape. It took a long time though.
Part 2: It took three rounds to kill the crystal. The group executed perfectly each time, due to some excellent coordination, however the crystal has so many hit points that we ended up doing 2.5 million hp of damage to the bosses to get it done. For some reason 1 of the bosses failed to respawn, but the ward dropped when three were dead. This round was unreasonably long.
Part 3: Early double rainbow was a surprise but had been guessed at by the leader before we went in, so we made a concerted effort to open the center as quickly as possible. Some soul stones had to be retrieved. Personally this was my favorite round. It took some genuine heroics to get it done.
Part 4: indistinguishable from heroic. I did like that we didn't have to pull dumb tricks to get people back from the dead. That was a pleasant change.
Part 5: This was pretty fun. I won't talk about it so as not to give too much away.

For me, it would be much improved by lowering the portal hit points in part 1, and by lowering either the boss hit points in part 2 or the crystal hit points -but not both.

davmuzl

12-19-2015, 05:10 AM

Did legendary Tempest's Spine and Hound of Xoriat yesterday on hard. It actually felt really easy.

Most of Tempest's Spine wasn't a real challenge until the bossfight. There I was quite surprised being 2 shot by the boss. The boss himself is actually is actually balanced quite well imo. We had a tank with us and it wasn't hard to kill him. It's just that the rest of the dungeon wasn't up to the same level (maybe trash mob just died too fast in a full group).

Hound of Xoriat was a lot too easy for my personal desire. When I started playing I went through 20 mostly pug runs in order to grab Levik's defender and it was a lot harder back then.
It used to be really hard to get enough DPS out of the dogs to prep her.
Yesterday our group wasn't all that coordinated. Of the 4 stones we got at the start we only used 3 (the last one must have been picked up by someone who had no idea what to do with it). I think we kept the dogs alive pretty well however (I was mostly running around trying to kill beholders and mindflayers asap).

One thing to consider is of course that those were old raids, so a lot of us already knew what to do in there. Our leader also did a good job.
That's basically my first impression. I think the raids could have been a bit harder in some areas (for example require more uptime on dogs).

Silverleafeon

12-19-2015, 06:15 AM

Shroud LH ~~ party wipe at part 5 ~~ 2 hours ~~ book less than half.
Portals seemed harder than LE on lamania (probably less dps in group)
Ran out of sp pots in part 1 (was only packing about 9ish at the start of the day LE TS, then LE flagging, then LH Shourd)
and rez scrolls in part five (brought over 40ish typical stack at start of day)

First time Legendary Shroud for most.
They learned and will return with different strategy.

Druids very handy for Shroud, but its expensive on resources, where I could place earthquakes helped a lot.

Most felt the raid very cool, not upset at difficulty.

Tactics already forming like spreading out.

Henky

12-19-2015, 06:16 AM

I tried Legendary Shroud Elite once, i had to log out to get my car from the garage so I didn't have time to try again. We wiped at part 1, portals DR is insane, 200 DR on a 300K HP mob.... too loooooooooong and too booooooring. Trog caster magic missiles hitting for 200+ each missile is.... over the top, everyone needs to use shield wands if they want to go there, i was raised and did not have time to buff myself, was raising another people and got almost one-shotted with magic missiles.

After that, i tried one normal shroud, we finished without major problems, no portal keepers appeared on part 1. Part 2 red nameds and crystal have too much HP. Part 3 wall was fun, but the 3 crystals you have to destroy to open the fountain, again, too much HP. I want to say that you are not making the raid harder with so much inflated HP, you are making it loooooong and booooring, imho.

Tempest Spine on normal was too easy, on hard was ok, did not try Elite, but on hard some mobs hits for 400-500 damage with 150~ PRR. I'm talking about two heroic/epic completionist characters, both melee, no ranged, no caster. Maybe new or average players even on hard is really hard, and maybe on a ranged/caster character even elite is easy.

HoX did two runs on normal, it feels as running hox on heroic normal when cap was level 20, except for the part that you don't need a dedicated healer to heal the tank. On one of the runs I used the stones to charm the puppies, with eidolon necky and a druid PL.

Wizza

12-19-2015, 07:47 AM

Shroud: Portals' HP and DR is way overboard. Reduce to 70% of what they currently are.

TS: Rubberband mechanic is the most annoying thing in the entire world and you always find a place for it (DoJ, now TS). Get rid of it, specially when a boss has over 124564k HP.

One-shotting mechanics are ********.

Holymunchkin

12-19-2015, 09:00 AM

don't try to tank sor'jek on LE. watched him one-shot someone with 2.2k health about 180 PRR. Toon had 130 intim and was trying the new changes.

horrid wilting has no tell. was very funny when it wiped out half party. but ya know. the comedy will wear off

point and die mechanics are stupid unless there is a tell. otherwise bring 12 ranged toons and just wear him out, kiting him, and taking deaths

ability to complete LE depends on DPS and people's willingness to keep raising. nothing more. The lower difficulties are more fun but we can just sacrifice our melee toons to the Legendary one-shotters for better drops.

Sor'jek's rubberbanding needs to be QA'd (!)

LordTigerDawn

12-19-2015, 11:23 AM

LH Shroud: Did not have a problem with it, once everyone starts to show up with DR breakers and portal beaters it will go much more quickly. Right now, probably half the party was swinging to not look like they were piking.

LH Tempest: Trash excluding Fire Elementals could use a few more hp (Ranged toons were taking them out before the melee got there). red names a little less. Sorjek rubber banding (I expect he is only checking his current aggro target is on the top, not the whole party) was annoying.

I do not mind the one shotting... it will make people start building for defense instead of just offense now.

It legendary, its supposed to be a challenge.

Basura_Grande

12-19-2015, 11:29 AM

I do not mind the one shotting... it will make people start building for defense instead of just offense now.

It legendary, its supposed to be a challenge.

And yet you ran LH.

Run LE and in your infinite wisdom tell me how you build for the one-shotting.

Heathir

12-19-2015, 12:06 PM

And yet you ran LH.

Run LE and in your infinite wisdom tell me how you build for the one-shotting.

I ran LE shroud, it was a wipe, but not because of mob damage. The lag got pretty bad when multiple portals started spawning. As for one shots ....unless I got hit by a crit on my aoe spec warlock I was never one shot. I took 3 hits at once that dropped me to 500hp from 2600. But I was able to survive until a lag moment wiped a 3rd of the raid. I am not a con build either..strictly prr/mrr build maxing out my dodge, incorporate and displacement. Max prr/mrr for me also is only 140/120. The mobs are totally doable, just have to build for it. I think we will need aoe tanks, portal beater, ranged and healers built in the group. Side note the %absorptions seemed to help make this possible.

Part 3 was a nightmare though....doj style lag made it a pain. 90% of the deaths were from lag plus wall of death.

LE tempest is pretty much perfect. Doable by a good group but a wipe if too many people lose focus.

Vallin

12-19-2015, 12:15 PM

So let us know how you're doing. When telling us your raid stories, please include the size of your group, as well as a rough idea of your party composition (how many could heal, etc.)

Have a happy Festivult and good hunting!

Knockback

LN Tempest Spine - Did it twice - Two-manned, self sufficient, caster and ranged typed toons. Really fun! Only barrier was the STR levers. The levers were a little disappointing because it could make the raid inaccessible to some toons or player combos that like to do things in short-man contexts. We used a druid pet one time and another time bought in a 'dual-box' character to get the lever from another account - something that kind of breaks game flow and fun and immersion from my perspective. The 'Fire and Ice' seemed rather forgiving (for killing at 'same time'). Expected that part to be a little more challenging. Enjoyed the drow captains, who were tough. Enjoyed a couple spots with large 'camps' of mobs - good challenge for our little group. Overall really well done and look forward to trying on harder difficulties now!

Vallin.

Basura_Grande

12-19-2015, 02:42 PM

LOLz . . . LE shroud. 91 Necro DC . . . Finger only lands reliably with Enervation+Energy Drain+ Curse and it's still maybe a 60% kill.

PsychoBlonde

12-19-2015, 03:49 PM

Ran Legendary Shroud for the first time today on Normal. Lag was godawful. People kept getting blasted by the prismatic walls in part 3 before they even got a chance to see the things. I am glad that people will actually have to LEARN HOW TO DO THE PUZZLES, now. If you can't solve it yourself, those rooms are basically a deathtrap. Glad there's no penalty box on part 4 now as we would have lag-wiped due to blades lag. I was all the way across the room and I got sucked into the center and killed by blades + lag.

End fight bugged out so we didn't get completion.

I highly recommend that people shortman this raid in the hopes of reducing lag. You don't need anything like a full group for Normal.

Basura_Grande

12-19-2015, 04:29 PM

The 80+ SR on the Gnoll in Part 4 LE is absurd.

Captain_Wizbang

12-19-2015, 04:43 PM

We went into TS leet, the amount of damage being sent was over the top. Party wipe. Regrouped for hard, and that was too easy.

The fire ellies one-shoting people was a little too much.
Don't get me wrong, we enjoyed the challenge, but it was over done on leet.

davmuzl

12-19-2015, 06:24 PM

LH shroud felt really good for the most part.
We had 1 healer in the group.

Part1: Portals took really long to kill. I should have used my blasting chime eariler, but still.
Part2: Was a bit disappointed that there were only the old bosses, but difficulty felt good.
Part3: Crystals took really long to be destroyed. Maybe lower AC on them would be nice.
Part4: Really easy compared to heroic. Don't mind it too much, because part 4 in heroic was one of the harder encounters in the game. However I expected a bit more Arraetrikos awesomeness overall.
Part5: Overall cool stuff. Group got 1 shot once by what looked to me like a hell ball. I don't know if there was a way to tell, that this was about to happen. I don't mind huge burst damage as long as I know it's coming...

I noticed overall(not only in this update), that my characters have quite big problems hitting enemies. My barb is running around with an accuracy item for a while now and is doing fine most of the time. On a lot of other characters I find that grazing hits are very common. This makes it a lot harder to use tactical abilities. Needing a high DC and then also having to worry about to-hit is quite a big deal and I also don't know a good way to deal with those to-hit problems. In the old AC system picking up something like a +4 attack set bonus would have made a huge difference. Now it's really hard to get a noticeable difference from anything.

Cleanincubus

12-19-2015, 06:38 PM

Ran LN Tempest's Spine for the first time since it's been Live, today. The only difference from the first "finished" preview on Lamannia (2nd preview in this cycle,) is that Sor'jek and other red named have more HP and hit harder. It was too easy in the preview, and it's too easy now. There's nothing Elite or Legendary about it. It's a quick zerg through, just like the Heroic version is.

vyvy3369

12-19-2015, 09:35 PM

Gave Shroud a try tonight. Joined a PUG with a few guildies. Group was full of people who should have been able to handle LE, so we gave it a few tries. Group was something like 3 Fighters, 5 Warlocks, 1 Cleric, 1 Rogue, 1 Ranger, and 1 Barb. Most of them I've known for years and included many of the better players on the server.

First try (LE) was so laggy that we didn't even finish the initial kills before wiping. Second try was going better, but still very laggy, ended up losing in part 1 by not being able to reach a portal keeper in time. Gave LH a try instead. If not for lag anyone in the group would have been able to handle a LH portal and all of its trash on their own. Portals had a ridiculous amount of HPs, to the point where several people were playing other games on the side while we auto-attacked the portals. I can't remember the last time I was so incredibly bored inside of a quest. Failed again when the game lagged so badly that we couldn't get to portal keepers in time. I gave up for the night, fairly certain most of the group did as well.

Overall impressions: LE seemed difficult but doable, barring lag. LH seemed about right except for portal HPs. With the group we had, barring lag, we should have steamrolled it. Making the portals take that long doesn't add any meaningful challenge, it just drags the whole part out and increases chances that a portal keeper will spawn that nobody can get to in time because of lag. I've been looking forward to staying at cap and raiding again. If this becomes the norm, I'm not going to bother.

Atremus

12-19-2015, 09:50 PM

The feedback from Lamania wasn't good enough?

PsychoBlonde

12-19-2015, 10:41 PM

Vallin

12-19-2015, 10:45 PM

Update 29 includes Legendary versions of three classic DDO raids - the Shroud, Tempest's Spine, and the Hound of Xoriat.

So let us know how you're doing. When telling us your raid stories, please include the size of your group, as well as a rough idea of your party composition (how many could heal, etc.)

Have a happy Festivult and good hunting!

Knockback

Ran Hound of Xoriat with a 75% full group, LN. It was really easy even though many did not know the raid and for many others they had not run it in a long time. Actually it was so easy that it reminded me of competent runs with experienced people from back when the Heroic version was mastered. I guess that this quest really only needs a stoner, someone to manage Xyzzy and an intim tank until the puppies are stoned, and then a healer. So I guess it was nice that there was a potential role for a healer cleric again! It seemed that Druid buffs worked on the puppies so maybe that helped things out a lot on Normal. So for healing on LN we just had one cleric and one druid and one bard, and I don't think anyone was really healing all that much

So it was nice to run HOX again, but it was really nothing new at all! One of the armors dropped, and it looked like good loot, so I can see myself running that quest again.

The insta-port to the quest was great though. Much appreciated on that.

Vallin.

Holymunchkin

12-20-2015, 11:47 AM

LH shroud felt really good for the most part.

Part5: Overall cool stuff. Group got 1 shot once by what looked to me like a hell ball. I don't know if there was a way to tell, that this was about to happen. I don't mind huge burst damage as long as I know it's coming...

Please give hell ball a tell.

Seikojin

12-20-2015, 01:15 PM

As so far, everyone who has ran them has loved them. I have not ran them on Live yet, but what I saw the last time on Lam was ok. So any tweaks from the lam feedback that made it in definitely would help amp the fun factor for those raids.

Basura_Grande

12-20-2015, 01:25 PM

have not ran them on Live yet,

LOLz.

stoopid_cowboy

12-20-2015, 02:17 PM

Title is correct. A guildie of mine was one shotted by Sor'jek and had -16,121 hp.

The one shotting mechanic is dumb. My Barb with 80prr (and roughly 1,500hp) was getting one shotted repeatedly! PRR reduction of about 45% and still getting smacked by 2-3,000hp attacks by trash mobs.

The one shotting mechanic does not make the quest harder, it makes it annoying. My guild completed Elite, all the one shotting did is burn up a stack of rez scrolls. It didn't make it "harder".

esojiul

12-20-2015, 04:27 PM

Update 29 includes Legendary versions of three classic DDO raids - the Shroud, Tempest's Spine, and the Hound of Xoriat.

As always when we release raids, we’re going to be closely monitoring your feedback in the days and weeks after release to see how things are going.

We’ve gotten lots of great feedback on the Legendary Shroud on Elite during the Lamannia testing. It's been very helpful, leading us to do things like adjust saves and spell resistance. It's also led to lively discussions about other potential tweaks.

Now that Update 29 is up and running, we'd like to encourage people to keep giving us feedback on the Shroud - especially on Normal and Hard.

We’re also particularly interested in your experiences with the Legendary Hound of Xoriat, at any difficulty level.

So let us know how you're doing. When telling us your raid stories, please include the size of your group, as well as a rough idea of your party composition (how many could heal, etc.)

Have a happy Festivult and good hunting!

Knockback

Update it fantastic, BUT again we have a major problems with LAG. Everything supose to be a sucess for you, become a situation that upset players.

esojiul

12-20-2015, 04:28 PM

Silverleafeon

12-20-2015, 04:30 PM

I did not raid sat night, being the weekend before Xmas with a new update, might try Shroud tonight or tomorrow.

PsychoBlonde

12-20-2015, 06:19 PM

Vellrad

12-20-2015, 06:27 PM

Holymunchkin

12-20-2015, 06:31 PM

Little more defence?
LOL
Defence required to survive sorjek melee hit is full tank build with extremally poor offence and tanking stuff only.

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Anyone that can survive a hit from sor'jek should post it in achiement forums.
I watched him oneshot a tank with 2.2k hp and 200 prr.

nix_vali

12-20-2015, 06:37 PM

Legendary Lagfest in Shroud. Ohh and the tiefling rednamed bugged out at the end fight ...

Henky

12-20-2015, 06:44 PM

Did LN Hox and Tempest Spine today. I decided to restrict the raid to max 8, so we did Hox with 8 people and Tempest Spine with 7. Result: a few lag blips, but nothing bad, nobody died due to lag, completed both raids in good time, had tons of fun.

I think it may be time to consider changing the max raid size (and possibly max party size) to 8 and 4 respectively. That alone might clear up the lag sufficiently to make the game fun and playable again. Until then, I HIGHLY recommend shortmanning. It REALLY made a HUGE difference.

Also I pulled the handwraps I wanted on 1st run of TS, which was delightful. I love Legendary TS, it's so much fun.
Change your avatar pls :D

Also I completed Tempest Spine and HoX in Legendary Hard with full party and 0 lag. The problems with lag is located in switching items causing instances to freeze, not party size. Can ask my guildie to show how he freezes the instance switching boots.

Vellrad

12-20-2015, 06:45 PM

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Anyone that can survive a hit from sor'jek should post it in achiement forums.
I watched him oneshot a tank with 2.2k hp and 200 prr.

I just had 52% reduction and 1,9k HP when doing it (lvl27) and I was getting between 2,5 and 3,1k hits (thesee didn't seemed to be crits).

Silverleafeon

12-20-2015, 07:19 PM

Just finished 7 pm EST Sunday night LN shroud.
All went well, Pick up group, took the first 11 that applied.
Slight lag looting chests in part 1+2, otherwise lag free.

One player wanted LH and dropped group when we did not upgrade, np understandable.
I just wanted a few LNs to get folks acquainted.

MonadRebelion

12-20-2015, 07:49 PM

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Anyone that can survive a hit from sor'jek should post it in achiement forums.
I watched him oneshot a tank with 2.2k hp and 200 prr.

I was taking 1.9k hits on my tank. For the few seconds I had Last Stand active, I was able to tank. I think if I could get my tanks hp up to 2.5k I would be able to tank with a healer. I suspect a paladin could tank without a healer with enough hp. I'd like to see what Reignbeau has to say about tanking him.

PsychoBlonde

12-20-2015, 08:55 PM

Change your avatar pls :D

Also I completed Tempest Spine and HoX in Legendary Hard with full party and 0 lag. The problems with lag is located in switching items causing instances to freeze, not party size. Can ask my guildie to show how he freezes the instance switching boots.

This avatar actually matches my name, so no. :P

We've also had problems with Necklace of Mystic Eidolons popping a summon, people switching forms (druid or tree), and mobs spawning.

I have a couple of items that will lag me out in public areas if I switch them, both with "parrying" bonuses on them.

Silverleafeon

12-20-2015, 09:37 PM

PsychoBlonde

12-20-2015, 10:26 PM

Just finished LN Hound ~ around 9pm EST Sunday Night.

No Lag.
Used 6 stones total.
Had every possible buff (Legendary, Improved Aug summoning, Magistar, Druid spells, Mass Bulls, Haste, Rage).
Might should have gone 2+2+2, but went 3+1+2

The little dogs respawn almost instantly if you kill one, and the charmed one tends to attack the other little dogs instead of Xy'xxy, so it seems best to charm all 3 of them if at all possible.

Thatguy234

12-20-2015, 10:42 PM

I think it is safe to say for myself and many others included that we'd like to be able to tell you how we are doing but because of the simple of fact of lag not allowing us to play as intended we unfortunately cannot.

Lag is a huge problem, we can't enjoy the quests, let alone tell you how we're doing in them.

Silverleafeon

12-21-2015, 03:47 AM

Two more LN Shrouds,
first no lag,
second I lagged out (reclogged, parked in corner, did some housework, then came back and helped with the end fight) rest of party seemed to do ok.

Both completed, probably going to let those treasure chest reset now.
On timer for Tempest Spine still.

AzureDragonas

12-21-2015, 04:35 AM

For first try did LH each new raid.

EH shroud orthons hit base ~700 on 100 prr build, trogs were casting polar rays for 600-800, so had in P1 multiple deads. Was fun but for eh seems damage but out of whack
EH Tempest was boring 0 deads, mosters hits easier than EE carnaval monsters so even if it's LH doing less damage than 9 level below quests seems strange, also compared to damage done in shroud and tempest seemed more like we did tempest on LN and shroud on LE for damage scaling.
EH dog was fun did in 8-10 minutes thought little beholder made desintegrate on barbarian for 1800, didn't found if it was roll 1, but even if it was save 1, for a desintegrate on barbarian with 50-60 mrr seems also like outer space.

New quests fun but creeping death is bugged, black puddings at ee while being lvl 55 and having can't remember 20-30k hp and splitting after single hit to lvl 11 500 hp pudings i doubt it's wai.

lyrecono

12-21-2015, 06:01 AM

Legendary Elite Shroud:

Huge lag spikes, trogs doing roughly a 1000 damage per hit, Orthons 2000 per hit, casters fired polar rays for 4000, mob hp was too high, took too long to take m down, causing mobs to kill at least 2 people before they went down.
this on a lv30 with 200+ fort, 180 prr and 100 mrr toon. due to the high damage, i couldn't build up a blitz nor stacks of Deific Warding, making that feat kinda useless in the process.
the portals took ages to take down.
The wall being active immediately was a dumb move, due to lag and load in problems since this update, many loaded in dead
Lag was constant, we stood still for 50 to 180 seconds at the time.
The portal keepers spam a huge amount of insta kills that none could save through, they spammed it so fast one of the party members compared it to a unlimited ammo M134 on korthos island
http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/images/D/DSC00766-02.jpg

Legendary Elite Tempest Spine:

It was plagued with huge lag spikes at the time, mobs did a lot of damage (2-4k damage on ground stomps, really???) but due to the nature of tempest spine (clusters of small fights) we were able to knock it down an hour after the servers were up.

A boring slog imho

Legendary Elite Hound:

Constant lag spikes, fast spawn rate, insta kills made this a cluster-F

The raids were done by balanced party consisting out of lv 30 triple (heroic&iconic&epic) completionist toons, filled with the best gear so far in their best ED's by people who have raided together before the cap was 20.
I see this content becoming more ranged/caster based since melee's can't even get close, the best CC, if you could call it that was the bard, freezing everything.

Thanks turbine for shutting out melee's again, this is EE wheloon and stormhorns all over again.

edit:
In hindsight: i'm glad that i didn't pay extra for this mess

Edit 2, why are there champions i n a LE raid?

CavernDragon

12-21-2015, 06:55 AM

Shroud, portals have way to many HPs, guild kept getting lagged to death.
After wipe went to other quest and was again lagged till wipe. Logged off for the night will try again tonight.

TS- fun we always did like this relaxing one. No issues,

HoX. Set for guild run tue. Will leave feedback then

ccd1977

12-21-2015, 07:09 AM

Tempest Spine seems great all difficulty levels..^I completely agree.

Seljuck

12-21-2015, 08:48 AM

Done few days ago LH Tempest. Full group, people split for objectives almost at start, so we finished it very fast.. nothing stop us from zerging through it. End fight took ~1min. Few deaths in whole raid.

LH Shroud,
1st part - boring as hell, portals have to much HP.. trash deal still quite high dmg but for hard diff it was ok. Exploding portals are very nice addition.. more tweaks like this would be appreciated.
2nd part - nothing special, same as heroic, only more HP and DR.. still laggy.. especially when going for chests after barrier is down. This part could use some tweaks, some news.. maybe new kind of monster? New monster abilities? Marks on the ground where red names should be killed.. or some kind of gear that have to be build from parts that can be found in maze, to kill last crystal..
3rd part - was quite nice, addition of walls make this part more spicy, there's no time to afk, or think about combinations. The only thing I could tweak here, is adding some kind of announcement when barrier is coming or appear.. or maybe throw some trash in corridors.
4th part - to easy.. 1 round in LH?? It shouldn't be possible on LN or even LC if that diff would be supported. Arraetrikos need to have more HP or more PR/ beter DR. Make him stay on plaform for shorter period of time. Give him some special attacks like Lord of Blades have, AoE dmg. Add to plaform archers or casters that are hidden at balcony and spam spells/arrows (like DQ2 archers). Give this part some more spicy feeling.
5th part - too much trash, beside that, quite good.

When I do LE on live, Il type more about it.. but from what I checked od Lamma, (done LE shroud there ) I'm opposite for one-shooting mobs.

Cableman

12-21-2015, 09:09 AM

Holymunchkin

12-21-2015, 10:58 AM

piking

slarden

12-21-2015, 11:02 AM

I am ok with the difficulty.

LH seems good across all 3 raids. I only ran LN on tempest spine shortman because guildies didn't want any lag. Haven't run LN shroud or Hound.

LE is tough as it should be - consider something other than one-shot mechanics for the next raid but it's fine for this one. I've seen several LE pug groups up on Sarlona but the timing didn't work for me so I couldn't join. I was invited to join a group doing all 3 raids LE but at the last minute it was cancelled due to concerns about lag. I don't mind failing on LE if we mess up but I don't want to fail due to lag esp after we already invested time into it.

I like the fixed # of runes in Hound and Tempest Spine better than the variable #.

The 2 LE quests are fine - they are solo-able so if that isn't what you intended amp up the difficulty in those quests a bit. HP are up but so is player power. Enemy damage is up but not so much that one-shotting is a problem.

I enjoyed both quests.

Only thing I will note is that evard's is not very effective in LE. When you adjusted saves and spell resistance down -it appears spells with saves based on stats rather than will/fort/reflex save stayed the same.

Also, if you want to put a lot of oozes and jelly in the quests that is fine, but it would be nice if you had more weapons in the game that were immune to the damage. I haven't seen epic everbright weapons drop in a long time. We could use a few legendary ooze/jelly beaters to try and find.

Basura_Grande

12-21-2015, 11:04 AM

LH Shroud would have been about perfect for what I would consider hard difficulty. With the exception of the insane lag that hit the servers yesterday.

Tony the tiger's hellball should have a tell though, right is just kills with no real chance to evade.

Was getting hit for 300-400 though 150 PRR in LH, double that for LE and I think it's about right.

nokowi

12-21-2015, 01:30 PM

Shroud
Legendary Normal
(have not played)
Legendary Hard
Part 1 is pretty straightforward. It took a few runs for players to (re)learn the portal order. I see players dying on occasion in a mixed-skill group, so these seem like appropriate difficulty.
Part 2 is also straightforward but it requires the smallest amount of communication, which is difficult for players these days. The challenge level is nice here.
Part 3 is also straightforward, but again requires communication, which is difficult for players.
Part 4 is probably a little too easy. Mostly 1 rounders in my experience, with maybe 0-1 player dying the entire fight. Boss needs a few flying companions with annoying abilities.
Part 5 end boss is anti-climactic. I do like the boss who has a nice burst that can wipe part of the party. Fight would be better desinged if mobs spawned endlessly, requiring you to fight the end boss and the mobs at the same time. This is particularly true since players can regen SP.
Legendary Elite
Most members of my group were one-shotted by trash mobs using U28 gear. This is OK for bosses but not particularly fun on trash mobs. I won't step into elite shroud again until lag is addressed (and after I have geared up my toon fully). It is taking us 50-100% longer to complete (EH) runs because of lag issues.

Tempest Spine
This raid is nicely designed for players showing up with U28 gear, and is the easiest raid. While the difficulty seems correct right now, I believe it will be too easy once people get U29 gear.
Legendary Normal
(have not played)
Legendary Hard
This is the perfect setting for any random group of players. No need to bring your "A" game. The hardest parts are at the boss at the top of the stairs, and the end fight.
Legendary Elite
Some mobs (constructs, marut, named boss at top of stairs) were hitting me for 1000-1150 damage with 120 PRR. I am sitting at 1100 HP, so I believe I can build past most shots once I equip insightful PRR, extra con, and shroud HP items. Overall, I find LE to be fun. Some runs I die once or twice on the way to the end boss, and some I don't. The end boss seems to be able to once shot everyone. I have no problem with this. Throwing players off the ledge is a nice non-dps mechanic that provides some challenge for a party. The Str lever is set at 75. This doesn't seem to be too much of a problem, although you do need to make sure you have this person before you start the raid. LE is completable with any mix of builds (ranged, low PRR, high PRR, caster)

Hound of Xoriat
Legendary Normal
(have not played)
Legendary Hard
This is the perfect setting for any random group of players that know the quest. No need to bring your "A" game (gear/build), although things can go wrong when players do stupid things (letting mobs into center, kiting beholders through the center, etc). This quest is fast and even easier than TS if your group knows what they are doing.
Legendary Elite
(have not played) - will likely wait until U29 gear and lag improvement to attempt based on Shroud experience

Conclusion:

Fixing loot issues (incorrect text/effect) should be top priority, along with finding out what about the new loot is causing lag. (Some have suggested item swapping with auras). Please wait until players have 3-4 tier 3 shroud items before thinking about changing elite difficulty. We will be able to provide better feedback at that time.

Legendary Greensteel seems weak without knowing tier 3 effects. The clicky augment slot doesnt give very interesting effects. Let players slot in a single permanent effect like (stacking) fort bypass, faster spellcasting, extra HP, extra PRR, extra MRR, etc that justifies the ingredient cost of this slot. Make each of these effects small, but let them stack with each other. Examples: (5% fort bypass, 2% caster speed, 50 HP, 10 PRR, 10 MRR, 2% movement speed). The lack of player excitement about legendary greensteel is the biggest disappointment of U29. Hopefully hidden effects will fix this.

PsychoBlonde

12-21-2015, 04:03 PM

All of the weapon effects from my Storm's Harness have vanished. All the extra lightning damage. Poof. Gone. See:

http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq78/JMeganSnow/ScreenShot00062_zpszytczzlb.jpg

For reference, this is what it's supposed to look like:

https://www.ddo.com/sites/default/files/Stormsharness.jpg

Vargouille

12-21-2015, 04:14 PM

The raids were playable on the first day, after that, they've been nothing but a lag fest on Sarlona. I'm fine with the difficulty, fix the lag. Sitting in place every minute for five minutes isn't fun.

This is useful feedback and frankly good news overall, because it matches our analysis of one particular issue that's been going wrong and causing lag (it would be something that tends to worsen over time). We're looking into it.

Change your avatar pls

No, I've learned to read names! Really! I think. I hope.

alvarego

12-21-2015, 05:07 PM

Update 29 includes Legendary versions of three classic DDO raids - the Shroud, Tempest's Spine, and the Hound of Xoriat.

My personal religious experience today at Legendary Elite Tempest Spine:

(Combat): Sor'jek Incanni hit you for a total of 2,543 points of slash damage after 6 were blocked by damage reduction.

That with 150 PRR which means -60% ... had only 137 fortification so it might have been a critical hit but I don't think so, basicaly each blow of that giant's greatsword made 1d6 widows, and minibosses were doing maybe 30-40% less damage

I know is the end boss for a legendary epic raid but no matter what you bring only option is dodge, displace, ghostly ... etc, if you're hit you're done, that leaves really poor choices to tactics except skulking on a corner, jump like a frog, classy pike (I should have been doing this I am a bard after all :-)

I don't know if really a tank can stand this but I really doubt, had 1100+ HPs here 100 PRR and 1000 or 1500HPs won't help that's for sure, maybe just get a second chance for a hit

Silverleafeon

12-21-2015, 05:38 PM

Monday:

Tempest Spine LE ~ no lag, took new route, used 20ish rez scrolls for end fight, Wolf str 90 opened a door, took off FF, hugged wall ran away from end boss, died once ~~ great group, smart leader

Shroud LH ~ no lag, part 1 slow but steady, part 2 rekill once, some coordination, died a few times (trying out a nonshield weaponset atm), success overall {usual lag right before part 1 loot} Monsters make me cautions but not overwhelming. Used more Rez scrolls.

Buying a lot of Rez scrolls atm, reminds me of early MoD days.
People are checking for rippost gear before entering raid.

Need to level up an alt for U29 ~~ the rise of the alts.

Vargouille

12-21-2015, 06:01 PM

All of the weapon effects from my Storm's Harness have vanished. All the extra lightning damage.

We're looking into this today.

lyrecono

12-21-2015, 06:30 PM

My personal religious experience today at Legendary Elite Tempest Spine:

(Combat): Sor'jek Incanni hit you for a total of 2,543 points of slash damage after 6 were blocked by damage reduction.

That with 150 PRR which means -60% ... had only 137 fortification so it might have been a critical hit but I don't think so, basicaly each blow of that giant's greatsword made 1d6 widows, and minibosses were doing maybe 30-40% less damage

I know is the end boss for a legendary epic raid but no matter what you bring only option is dodge, displace, ghostly ... etc, if you're hit you're done, that leaves really poor choices to tactics except skulking on a corner, jump like a frog, classy pike (I should have been doing this I am a bard after all :-)

I don't know if really a tank can stand this but I really doubt, had 1100+ HPs here 100 PRR and 1000 or 1500HPs won't help that's for sure, maybe just get a second chance for a hit

This was what i predicted, the return of even more ranged dps toons

Nhennan

12-21-2015, 06:30 PM

Only run Shroud and Spine at this time. Both on LN and LH.

I had NEVER run either quest on Heroic (nor HoX) so a lot of fun for me to learn about the raids... "oooh, look at this rainbow. <paff>"

Tempest's Spine - Got isolated in Spine in the tunnels on LH. And **** those giants hit hard (I think they must have been punching through my 153% fortification), but the grouped mephitis were a bigger threat. All manageable as I waited for a generous toon to fetch me (I was lost).

Really didn't like the end fight on Spine where you get blown off the top..... didn't know about taking Feather Fall off (most people didn't) and it was a LONG climb back for loot (fell forever). Unfortunately feather fall is on Epic Ethereal Bracers. However. given the current lag issues with riposte, I guess that means I'll have to find an alternative set of bracers to use in any case.

Codex and the Shroud - end fight is straightforward - it's more challenging bringing down the portal near the start. Shroud puzzles are currently a mystery to me. Limited lag and end of part 1 that everyone seemed to know about or expect.

New random loot is making me pause and assess. Also putting more interesting pieces on auction in case someone else wants them.

I've not seen any HoX LFMs on Orien. Curious.

Overall? Fun!!!

Megahurtz

12-21-2015, 06:32 PM

This is useful feedback and frankly good news overall, because it matches our analysis of one particular issue that's been going wrong and causing lag (it would be something that tends to worsen over time). We're looking into it.

Pretty much unplayable lag in eshroud on Orien today, took 3 goes to get past part 1 and several hours later we're standing at the end of part 3 wondering when (if!) we're going to be able to move again.

The group all removed (and banked, for extra paranoia) anything that gave an insightful benefit to saves before stepping in, so it's not that.

Gave up in part 4, utterly ridiculous. Current grade, sadly - F for Fail.

(Particularly galling as a friend bought, and wasted as she'll be off timer tomorrow, a raid timer for that run)

trevitt

12-21-2015, 06:36 PM

This is stupid we have been in normal legendary shroud for 3 hours now and we are only just entering part 4. The lag is ridiculous. Looks like a fun quest if it will ever take less than a day to run it.

Starla70

12-21-2015, 06:48 PM

On Argo:

Ran the 2 flagging quests on LE. Many deaths for each player, many with over 20 lives. That was at least about half due to lag. You could hear the fight, but just not move. Tempest spine, was nicely done, but we had a player change toons because the levers needed 60+ Str. The lag in there was rough. I know my toon got blown off the mountain and somehow out of the quest, so I missed the end loot, but did get completion.

Have yet to do the shroud, but hear the lag is worse in there then is Tempest Spine.

trevitt

12-21-2015, 06:56 PM

Well that was an annoying waste of 3 1/2 hours of my life. Lag wipe in part 4.

nokowi

12-21-2015, 06:56 PM

My personal religious experience today at Legendary Elite Tempest Spine:

(Combat): Sor'jek Incanni hit you for a total of 2,543 points of slash damage after 6 were blocked by damage reduction.

That with 150 PRR which means -60% ... had only 137 fortification so it might have been a critical hit but I don't think so, basicaly each blow of that giant's greatsword made 1d6 widows, and minibosses were doing maybe 30-40% less damage

I know is the end boss for a legendary epic raid but no matter what you bring only option is dodge, displace, ghostly ... etc, if you're hit you're done, that leaves really poor choices to tactics except skulking on a corner, jump like a frog, classy pike (I should have been doing this I am a bard after all :-)

I don't know if really a tank can stand this but I really doubt, had 1100+ HPs here 100 PRR and 1000 or 1500HPs won't help that's for sure, maybe just get a second chance for a hit

I melee him and run around in a circle on a low PRR/HP toon. He has trouble attacking you. This works nicely for beholders as well. You can range him and do less damage on LE (even on your melee toon) if you can't stand dying.

I don't believe you took a critical hit (although you do need more fort). Its going to take 2000+ HP and 220+ PRR to survive a hit. Tanks can build to this. If they can intimidate, the rest of your melee can attack away.

Blastyswa

12-21-2015, 07:06 PM

I've ran LH Shroud, LH HoX, and LE Tempest's Spine myself.
Shroud: I brought a caster into here somewhat to test SR and saves of enemies. Based on my and other casters in the parties observations of our dice rolls, 62-65 SR was about what most enemies had. I think this could be brought down a little bit, but a number like that would be just fine for LE. I am personally playing a warlock for this update with minor focus in DC and spell pen casting (instakills and CC, along with EA SLA's) and could land soundburst with 42 spell pen approximately none of the time, which is fine because at the time I had no investment in spell penetration. In a few more days when I'm off timer, I expect to be back in with about 60, hopefully on an LE run, and will see how that performs. The other caster in my party was consistently landing instakills with a spell pen of 59 (59+2 was a failure) which is personally significantly balanced. The fort DC's seemed a little high, I can't determine my Cone of Glacial Wrath DC for certain since it doesn't display it on the spell, but its somewhere in the mid 70's and landed approximately 5-10% of the time. I wasn't able to test will saves because of my spell penetration being too low. In the second part the crystals seem to have rather high HP; if this is to shepherd people into taking ruin+greater ruin that's fine, but keep in mind that's what it's doing right now (Took us 2 runs at the crystal with about 5 people on it, including a furyshotter). Third area was fine, I died like an idiot turning around from a puzzle just in time to see a rainbow wall about to seal the exit, which was completely my fault and a fun mechanic to have to watch out for. The fourth fight wasn't very lethal, I would highly prefer if it was to be revamped with harry dealing much more damage and the blades doing more damage; in addition, having people able to be rezzed really dropped the intensity of that fight. Half the fun is seeing the weak half of the party weeded out in the first wave, and knowing that if you die you're out of the picture. If those changes were made, gnoll healer health should then be reduced, because at the moment its just a pain beating through that much HP while Harry gets back to full health. The endfight was fine, half the party died in a hellball explosion, which is good. Maybe increase the spawn frequency of enemies to increase intensity/decrease the very long time spent watching different planes be tapped into. Our party was made up of one favored soul and a bunch of cocooners.

HoX: HoX was fun, I was the charmer for our group on account of Mystic Eidolons and 3x Druid Past Lives. My only complaints are that Keeper's tended to spawn so infrequently that we had the puppies hostile about 1/2 of the time, and direct damage from the Hound was enough to kill our pure paly Sentinel tank with Sacred Defender capstone fairly consistently, and that was only on LH (I don't know the exact stats on the tank, but he's one of Cannith's that can do Aurgloroasa+Bone Boys EE and the like, so decent stats). I would prefer to see the bee's beefed up a bit to provide consistent overtime damage to the tank and any poor soul's who decide to stand next to him; we had one druid healer positioned on him and everyone else was presumably self-healing with whatever they had (Oh, I guess I should mention that I run in exalted angel and occasionally toss a mass moderate wounds if someone's dying slowly enough. maybe count me as 1/2 of a healer?).

Tempest's Spine: This is the only one I did on Legendary Elite yet. Personally, I think the runes and levers are much too high and should be dropped significantly, since the difficulty of the raid shouldn't be finding some gimp fellow with 70 int. I also don't like the one hit mechanisms very much; more lethality in enemies is nice, but there's no reason for a healer when all you need is a rezzer. In this one we had a completely heal specced cleric in the party, and myself; I noticed that even trying to target the 2300 HP 200+ PRR pure fighter in the group often was thwarted by health going from full to empty in less than a second. Everything else in the raid was fine, keep the beholder in the second area vulnerable to helpless effects, it gives tactics a real purpose when you see a 250k hp beholder coming over.

xaul17

12-21-2015, 07:44 PM

Was able to get on yesterday and try out Tempest Spine (Legendary Normal)

It was quite a change in the positive direction as opposed to when I had run on Lammania. Did a run with the guild and we were able to cut through fairly easily, though it wasn't nearly as solo-friendly. Mobs were definitely hitting harder, had more hps and overall the experience was a lot of fun. Not done it on LH or LE, nor have I done any of the other raids, but this is what I have to share.

Henky

12-21-2015, 07:58 PM

Legendary Shroud can bug out if Fortis is healed with consecration or divine wrath as Tavern Brawl. You will not be able to kill him ergo you will not be able to finish shroud.

alvarego

12-21-2015, 08:31 PM

PsychoBlonde

12-21-2015, 09:02 PM

We're looking into this today.

Offhand, I suspect it's related to putting an augment in the red slot--I have a lot of "weapon enchant" style effects from past lives and epic destinies and so forth, but it was working fine when I was tooling around with it last night. So I threw an augment in it and went to bed. This morning? Bye-bye electric damage.

PsychoBlonde

12-21-2015, 09:03 PM

Legendary Shroud can bug out if Fortis is healed with consecration or divine wrath as Tavern Brawl. You will not be able to kill him ergo you will not be able to finish shroud.

Yep, I was in a group where this happened.

Merlocke

12-21-2015, 09:42 PM

I know you probably wont listen as all the real feedback is on the other boards so I'll keep this short.

Tempest spine
Too easy roflstomp, even with noob groups. Sorjeck is the only dangerous thing in that raid

Hound
Too easy. Instant teleport? You dont even have to heal the dogs anymore? ********.

Shroud
Lag makes most groups unplayable. You all really messed up by making ingredients bound. The reason shroud was popular was because EVERYONE was trading LDSs as currency. Instead you chose to bind them and sell them in the store...really?? Fix your damage on LE, being 1 shotted should not happen to 1500+ HP chars.

This was truly your last chance to save DDO from maintenance mode, and you guys screwed it. Way to go. Great testing and listening to Lama feedback.

Drwaz99

12-21-2015, 09:47 PM

Ran a LN Shroud today since lag makes it unplayable on any other difficulty (On Argo). Felt right, I guess. It's tough to say when it takes 15-20 seconds for dice rolls to show up or damage to register. All but one person wiped in the puzzles as it took so long to load in, people were spawning dead from the wall (seriously, that's how bad the lag is). We completed with many many deaths due to the lag. Most everyone was incredibly dejected and frankly down right ****ed off. Instead of being happy with a completion, everyone was, like, "Thank god that's over. What a nightmare." And not because of difficulty.

Bad, bad showing Turbine, again.

Habreno

12-21-2015, 10:48 PM

Vellrad

12-21-2015, 11:14 PM

Briefly ran LE Tempest's Spine and was disappointed with the trap DC on the one trap we got to. If you consider this "end-game" then they need to be buffed; real trappers (not these 2 rogue splashes that say they can do traps) should be challenged by them on LE. I think I had 11(+134) crit success; this puts the DC at no higher than 125. In LE *raids* I would say you can set these DC's to at least 125/130 or even higher.

In short, you can definitely buff the trap DC's a bit. You can call me elitist, but a 2 rogue splash should NOT be able to do "legendary elite" traps.

Yeah, because playing a character that puts everything to traps and to nothing more is so fun, and he's so uselful during remainder of raid or leveling process for that matter.

davmuzl

12-21-2015, 11:19 PM

Briefly ran LE Tempest's Spine and was disappointed with the trap DC on the one trap we got to. If you consider this "end-game" then they need to be buffed; real trappers (not these 2 rogue splashes that say they can do traps) should be challenged by them on LE. I think I had 11(+134) crit success; this puts the DC at no higher than 125. In LE *raids* I would say you can set these DC's to at least 125/130 or even higher.

In short, you can definitely buff the trap DC's a bit. You can call me elitist, but a 2 rogue splash should NOT be able to do "legendary elite" traps.

If pure rogues/artis actually had a significant advantage over 2 rogue splashes this might be an idea. In the current situation having gear and pastlives is more relevant however and I don't think only letting someone disarm traps with a huge amount of PLs and gear is a good way to go even on LE.

Habreno

12-22-2015, 12:41 AM

Yeah, because playing a character that puts everything to traps and to nothing more is so fun, and he's so uselful during remainder of raid or leveling process for that matter.

I did not put everything into traps; there's likely 10+ I can get that I don't have that I could get as he stands now. Won't do a full breakdown, but here's a few things:
Missing 3 profane because I can't wear my +20 search/dd item at the same time as my epic Litany.
10 from feats (5 epic skill boost, 3 normal skill boost, 2 from Nimble Fingers)
Missing a few enhancement points
Don't have a +10 insightful item, only +8

As far as usefulness in the rest of the quest, there's still plenty of options for DPS. I heard Harper Tree is really good for INT toons.

If pure rogues/artis actually had a significant advantage over 2 rogue splashes this might be an idea. In the current situation having gear and pastlives is more relevant however and I don't think only letting someone disarm traps with a huge amount of PLs and gear is a good way to go even on LE.

The build in question is a first lifer. Granted, I have a fair bit of gear, but if you're running *end-game* content on the hardest difficulty, it is not unreasonable to expect you to gear yourself for it? Seriously, if you're running *end game hardest difficulty*, which is what they're pushing here with LE, then you should be well-geared. Sorry.

In regards to the difference between 2 splashes and pure- There needs to be more of a gap. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, if you're not pure you shouldn't be able to search out the traps at all in LE but since I know that would never happen because people whine too much perhaps locking DD/OL to only allowing 1 point to be spent per level (so rog/arty levels, you spend 1 point, you get 1 point in the skill, other classes, you spend 1 point, you get 0.5 points in the skill, unlike now where you could spend 2 points in the latter situation to get 1 point in the skill) would give incentive to being more levels (would end up changing a 2 splash from 23 points to only 14 points). As it stands, it's disappointing that the DC's are low enough that I don't ever bother putting on half of my gear and I'm still crit successing on the traps.

Qezuzu

12-22-2015, 01:04 AM

As it stands, it's disappointing that the DC's are low enough that I don't ever bother putting on half of my gear and I'm still crit successing on the traps.

It's because you're INT based. Assassins and Acrobats don't need to be knocked down another peg as it is.

BigErkyKid

12-22-2015, 07:50 AM

As it stands, it's disappointing that the DC's are low enough that I don't ever bother putting on half of my gear and I'm still crit successing on the traps.

I wouldn't even require traps in raids. The reason is that for the most part it does not require any real active participation from the player. Search box -> disable. Either you got the DC or you don't. A trained monkey could do that. For me cooperation is raids (and roles) should be as flexible as possible, with several characters being able to do it.

For instance, some mobs might be tankable by a rogue with amazing to miss chances but not by a regular paladin tank.

Simple DC checks are boring, IMHO.

slarden

12-22-2015, 08:09 AM

10 from feats (5 epic skill boost, 3 normal skill boost, 2 from Nimble Fingers)

This is all I needed to read. Expecting trappers to take multiple feats to find/disable traps even on LE is going to lead to less people wanting to play trappers since it gimps them in areas that are more important for 99% of the quest and 99.99% of the game. Nobody reasonable wants to spec their character solely to disable traps in LE Tempest Spine.

Traps should be extremely dangerous on LE so that a trapper is required - a group expecting to finish on LE should have a balanced party, but making simple skill checks require maxing doesn't really make sense since that max is limited to int builds with multiple feats.

If Turbine wants to make it so that only int-based trappers with 3 feats dedicated to trapping can find/disable traps - they can have at it but I think only a very tiny minority of the population would find this to be a positive change (and by minority it might even be as few as 1 person).

Alkusoittow

12-22-2015, 09:32 AM

LH Shroud:

Ran yesterday morning on Argo with about 7 other guildies and the rest from an LFM, with one seemingly dedicated rogue piker (Robbers). So with 11 people, it took 79 minutes to complete.

Lag: Periodic throughout, especially bad in Part 4. End fight could get laggy at times. It was very frustrating and probably added a significant amount of time for completion. Many complaints about not being able to use action boosts or effects, or even swap weapons. However, sometimes you'd try to use your boosts, and it would go on timer, but the boost was not actually applied. Just very frustrating.

If lag gets sorted out (or "lag" as Cordo likes to call it), Legendary Shroud will be a ball! :)

Also, pulling small ingredients out of the end chest was... a surprise... Shouldn't those all be large?

Habreno

12-22-2015, 10:01 AM

Simple DC checks are boring, IMHO.

I agree. Simple DC checks are boring. Difficult DC checks are not. I don't think that's what you are getting at, though.

This is all I needed to read. Expecting trappers to take multiple feats to find/disable traps even on LE is going to lead to less people wanting to play trappers since it gimps them in areas that are more important for 99% of the quest and 99.99% of the game. Nobody reasonable wants to spec their character solely to disable traps in LE Tempest Spine.

Traps should be extremely dangerous on LE so that a trapper is required - a group expecting to finish on LE should have a balanced party, but making simple skill checks require maxing doesn't really make sense since that max is limited to int builds with multiple feats.

If Turbine wants to make it so that only int-based trappers with 3 feats dedicated to trapping can find/disable traps - they can have at it but I think only a very tiny minority of the population would find this to be a positive change (and by minority it might even be as few as 1 person).

If that is the conclusion you're drawing then you *clearly* did not read the post. Those were things I stated that I did not have, as possible (though I agree they would be stupid) improvements.

You'd also note that the DC's I suggested, while high, were still *less* than the numbers I am achieving, without external buffs (ship and personal buffs only). I posted a +133 roll. I am suggesting DC's of 125 to 130. If that means someone without the gear and effort I've put in to my toon may need a buff or two to make sure they don't fail, that's fine- it's a RAID. To guarantee you will not blow the box on a 125 DC, you'd need a +120 on your rolls. That's only, what, 113 DD? Forgive me if my math is slightly off on that, I just woke up. And at a +120 roll, yeah, you can *fail*, but you won't *critically fail*.

Those of you who are saying the numbers I'm posting are ridiculous, do some math. Take off the tools bonus, take off 5 (the fail, but no crit fail, range), and then look at the number. That's your "character sheet" requirement, to guarantee you won't blow the box. It's much lower than the actual DC on the trap.

davmuzl

12-22-2015, 10:40 AM

The build in question is a first lifer. Granted, I have a fair bit of gear, but if you're running *end-game* content on the hardest difficulty, it is not unreasonable to expect you to gear yourself for it? Seriously, if you're running *end game hardest difficulty*, which is what they're pushing here with LE, then you should be well-geared. Sorry.

In regards to the difference between 2 splashes and pure- There needs to be more of a gap. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, if you're not pure you shouldn't be able to search out the traps at all in LE but since I know that would never happen because people whine too much perhaps locking DD/OL to only allowing 1 point to be spent per level (so rog/arty levels, you spend 1 point, you get 1 point in the skill, other classes, you spend 1 point, you get 0.5 points in the skill, unlike now where you could spend 2 points in the latter situation to get 1 point in the skill) would give incentive to being more levels (would end up changing a 2 splash from 23 points to only 14 points). As it stands, it's disappointing that the DC's are low enough that I don't ever bother putting on half of my gear and I'm still crit successing on the traps.

No need to be sorry. I just think that if players want to roll a character who fills a specific role (which means rolling a pure rogue/arti who can do more than disabling traps) they should be able to do that without having to worry about being useless in the endgame until they have a lot of gear. This would include going for a sort of basic build path, which fills only the specific role (like a high DPS rogue with trap skills or a medium DPS arti with support and trap skills).

The best solution would probably be to have a few traps with very high DCs and to also give rogues and artificers a significant skill bonus in the higher levels. This makes sure that investing into high skills is rewarding and also allows those who don't want to invest as much to still be useful.

JOTMON

12-22-2015, 11:17 AM

Update 29 includes Legendary versions of three classic DDO raids - the Shroud, Tempest's Spine, and the Hound of Xoriat.

As always when we release raids, we’re going to be closely monitoring your feedback in the days and weeks after release to see how things are going.

We’ve gotten lots of great feedback on the Legendary Shroud on Elite during the Lamannia testing. It's been very helpful, leading us to do things like adjust saves and spell resistance. It's also led to lively discussions about other potential tweaks.

Now that Update 29 is up and running, we'd like to encourage people to keep giving us feedback on the Shroud - especially on Normal and Hard.

We’re also particularly interested in your experiences with the Legendary Hound of Xoriat, at any difficulty level.

So let us know how you're doing. When telling us your raid stories, please include the size of your group, as well as a rough idea of your party composition (how many could heal, etc.)

Have a happy Festivult and good hunting!

Knockback

Lag aside (hopefully this gets resolved soon)

There is something screwed up with the endfight with Sor'jek in Tempest spine, he white dots when aggro'd on thrown players.
as a result he keeps resetting back to full HP which is quite annoying.

PsychoBlonde

12-22-2015, 12:27 PM

Lag aside (hopefully this gets resolved soon)

There is something screwed up with the endfight with Sor'jek in Tempest spine, he white dots when aggro'd on thrown players.
as a result he keeps resetting back to full HP which is quite annoying.

Yeah, people were complaining about this elsewhere.

I actually don't have a problem with this because it makes the fight more interesting. It IS possible to not get thrown off. I've led the raid twice now and both times I cautioned people to fight up against the wall, not chase him if he retreats, use your ranged weapon if he backs off, etc. Result? No problems whatsoever. He's an easy raid boss. He should have something to make him more interesting.

Nobnarb

12-22-2015, 01:21 PM

Ran LN Shroud last night with guild. Was a lot of fun overall. Breakdown below

Part1: Felt about right, if tedious. In my opinion, could do with a couple less portals overall. The last few portals were like "OK already. Can we move on yet?"
Part2: Enjoyed this part. Had Trog, Orthon, Earth Elem, and Kobold. Trog got bugged by the portal to shrines/altars, didn't respawn with others. Communication was key, and making sure group had enough ranged DPS for the Crystal.
Part3: Lag + Prismatic Wall =/= Fun. This is mostly global lag issue, so should clear up with the other lag.
Part4: Near-unplayable due to lag. Dodging blades while still working down boss lead to a number of lag-related deaths.
Part5: Was a lot of fun. Minor lag issues, but nothing horrendous. Final boss form was entertaining.

JOTMON

12-22-2015, 02:21 PM

Yeah, people were complaining about this elsewhere.

I actually don't have a problem with this because it makes the fight more interesting. It IS possible to not get thrown off. I've led the raid twice now and both times I cautioned people to fight up against the wall, not chase him if he retreats, use your ranged weapon if he backs off, etc. Result? No problems whatsoever. He's an easy raid boss. He should have something to make him more interesting.

That is a load of carp,
1. There is nothing interesting about white dotting meatsack Endfights where a slivered Boss shifts aggro to someone who got tossed walks to the edge then resets to full HP.
2. people were thrown over the wall, so that is not a guarantee.

Looking to dev's to fix a bad reset mechanic, has nothing to do with how easy or uninteresting you think he is.

Dandonk

12-22-2015, 02:23 PM

2. people were thrown over the wall, so that is not a guarantee.

Was thrown over the wall myself, standing right up to it.

AzureDragonas

12-22-2015, 03:47 PM

http://i64.tinypic.com/14o3ts2.jpg

It's hard to describe how i feel on my ranged toon after getting hitted by fire giant in LE tempest spine for 3200 base, guess most melees can desibe better how they feel ^^

Silverleafeon

12-22-2015, 03:48 PM

Just joined a EE DoJ raid ~~ wiped at the blades, restarted on EH finished.

Ransacked part 1 thru 4 chests in LN Shroud, had some lag at times (before hotfix), someone had summer smoke (which still seems to mess up my pet's collars) but good/chaotic weapon would temp fix it I think.

Other raids that are difficult on Elite ~ CitW (huge mana drain and the like), MoD, etc...

So, LE probably should be really tough, gonna let the experts figure out the fine tuning.

esojiul

12-22-2015, 03:51 PM

I know you probably wont listen as all the real feedback is on the other boards so I'll keep this short.

Tempest spine
Too easy roflstomp, even with noob groups. Sorjeck is the only dangerous thing in that raid

ok with me

Hound
Too easy. Instant teleport? You dont even have to heal the dogs anymore? ********.

true
Shroud
didnt try on LE-it fun makes most groups unplayable. You all really messed up by making ingredients bound. The reason shroud was popular was because EVERYONE was trading LDSs as currency. Instead you chose to bind them and sell them in the store...really?? Fix your damage on LE, being 1 shotted should not happen to 1500+ HP chars.

This was truly your last chance to save DDO from maintenance mode, and you guys screwed it. Way to go. Great testing and listening to Lama feedback.

need to fix the lag-main problem

PsychoBlonde

12-22-2015, 04:28 PM

That is a load of carp,
1. There is nothing interesting about white dotting meatsack Endfights where a slivered Boss shifts aggro to someone who got tossed walks to the edge then resets to full HP.
2. people were thrown over the wall, so that is not a guarantee.

Looking to dev's to fix a bad reset mechanic, has nothing to do with how easy or uninteresting you think he is.

Oh, I'm sorry, yes, victory in one shot should be *guaranteed*.

I didn't say it was a good mechanic. I said I didn't MIND it, because it's not the end of the world--you CAN do something constructive about it, and if it doesn't work, well, you can DPS him down again. It's not like he goes invulnerable and you fail the raid. It's not substantially different from having to kill the mobs again on part 2 of shroud because the crystal didn't go down on the first pass, and people have been doing THAT for AGES.

Has anyone attempted the various methods of controlling aggro available in the game? Intim, diplomacy, bluff, heck, just dropping into sneak mode since you're out of LoS might be enough to clear aggro. These are all worth trying before you start screaming. Has everyone taken their feather fall off?

JOTMON

12-22-2015, 06:45 PM

Oh, I'm sorry, yes, victory in one shot should be *guaranteed*.

I didn't say it was a good mechanic. I said I didn't MIND it, because it's not the end of the world--you CAN do something constructive about it, and if it doesn't work, well, you can DPS him down again. It's not like he goes invulnerable and you fail the raid. It's not substantially different from having to kill the mobs again on part 2 of shroud because the crystal didn't go down on the first pass, and people have been doing THAT for AGES.

Has anyone attempted the various methods of controlling aggro available in the game? Intim, diplomacy, bluff, heck, just dropping into sneak mode since you're out of LoS might be enough to clear aggro. These are all worth trying before you start screaming. Has everyone taken their feather fall off?

I didn't say anything about " victory in one shot should be *guaranteed*."
My post was about a screwed up white dot mechanic.
You seem enamoured with trying to derail this issue into some sort of irrelevent argument.

..there is a game interaction mechanic that is problematic and is being brought up in a thread asking for feedback on the Legendary content.

Problem.. boss white dotting during battle on the small contained platform.
Fixing the white-dotting/aggro for the Boss is something to clean up a currently glitchy mechanic with the endfight in the Tempest spine Raid.

This isn't about player skills, or sneaking while being tossed.. seriously.. stay on topic here..
We are all capable of using workarounds and a variety of cheese mechanics, and rerunning over and over again to restart a fight, but why should we..

Captain_Wizbang

12-22-2015, 10:56 PM

shroud lag after today's hotfix was acceptable. only had a little in part 5

Basura_Grande

12-22-2015, 11:09 PM

This isn't about player skills, or sneaking while being tossed.. seriously.. stay on topic here..
We are all capable of using workarounds and a variety of cheese mechanics, and rerunning over and over again to restart a fight, but why should we..

better question is why bother running Tempest Spine in the first place. Even on LE with a good group it presents too little challenge to be fun and the loot is garbage.

If a tree falls on a terrible raid in a forest and nobody's playing it, does anybody care?

nokowi

12-23-2015, 01:38 AM

Ran all 3 raids today.

We had some lag in town when our guild split into two 12-person groups before going into TS. (24 people all in the same area).

We had a slight chest lag in pt 1 of shroud.

Other than this, there really was no lag to speak of.

slarden

12-23-2015, 01:41 AM

AzureDragonas

12-23-2015, 02:23 AM

We ran it and had no problems.

I had no issues with how hard enemies hit. We had no clerics - only res scrolls used to bring people back up. We did have someone effectively tanking the boss and that helped alot.

My only complaint is that if someone uses /stuck or gets pushed off and has aggro the boss resets. We must have done 5x damage to him by the time he finally went down without resetting.

Please address that for the next patch.

BTW, when exactly he resets when entire group is pushed down or a single player? We did LE, had 4-6 people pushed and coming back but havent reseted a single time, most who used fom had no issues to stay at top.

slarden

12-23-2015, 03:11 AM

BTW, when exactly he resets when entire group is pushed down or a single player? We did LE, had 4-6 people pushed and coming back but havent reseted a single time, most who used fom had no issues to stay at top.

It seemed to be 2 things
1) the person with agro was pushed down
2) someone used /stuck - whenever someone did it he reset - we told people not to do it and finally finished without him resetting. While I realize this isn't a legit action, people are used to doing it from heroic and when in a party of 12 it's hard to control what people do.

AzureDragonas

12-23-2015, 04:06 AM

Captain_Wizbang

12-23-2015, 11:20 AM

better question is why bother running Tempest Spine in the first place. Even on LE with a good group it presents too little challenge to be fun and the loot is garbage.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/Trainwreck4.gif

Not to derail the thread, BUT, why do you play this game?
personally, Ive rage/quit a few times. Complained & whined, and in the end I'm still here to play a game and have fun.

Sure, it would be nice to get all the uber loot, xp & whatever, but this is just a game.

Turbine is a game company & is trying to keep us playing and having fun while the employees make a living.

Can we as a community come up with better ideas? In some cases yes, but in the end we're just gamers.

Don't like something? Don't run it. Last night I joined a L Shroud normal. At 1st I thought, "normal?" then why not, I'll get mats & xp and have fun in a pug like we used to.

Not enough of a challenge? Then try starting over, take a 1st life toon and run it up lvl 30.

I am as much at fault as a lot of us are. I thought the loot would be better, and was disappointed with my 1st turn-ins. I think we should look at finding new character gear set-ups that will make our toons better, and that will be a combo of raid loot & new random loot.

No offence, this is not directed at you, as it is the general populous of the game.

Basura_Grande

12-23-2015, 11:47 AM

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/Trainwreck4.gif

Not to derail the thread, BUT, why do you play this game?

Nostalgia and hope things will get better.

Captain_Wizbang

12-23-2015, 11:53 AM

Nostalgia and hope things will get better.

/signed

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/5f7e3d67.gif

JOTMON

12-23-2015, 12:10 PM

It seemed to be 2 things
1) the person with agro was pushed down
2) someone used /stuck - whenever someone did it he reset - we told people not to do it and finally finished without him resetting. While I realize this isn't a legit action, people are used to doing it from heroic and when in a party of 12 it's hard to control what people do.

I only noticed the white dotting when Sor'jek aggro'd on someone who was not on the platform, irregardless of how far away they were.

1.. had one tanky melee player get launched, 2nd tanky melee player was melee'ing Sor'jek with aggro, got one-shotted, Sor'jek shifted aggro back to person who was FF 25 miles away(had bounced off the outer wall boundary and was trying to drift to a spot to start running back to entrance) on the far end of the unexplored map, Sor'jek walked to the edge and few seconds later white dotted while ignoring everyone else melee'ing/dotting him.
1.. had person tanking get thrown over the wall Sor'jek stopped attacking for a couple seconds, switched to his bow.. then white dotted.
1.. had Sor'jek stop attacking multiple players melee'ing, walk to the edge and whitedot (assuming he aggro'd on a player (caster) that had been launched a couple minutes earlier and was working their way back.)

/stuck did not appear to impact this in any way...several players had /stuck back to platform during the repetitive battle

Silverleafeon

12-23-2015, 03:16 PM

I only noticed the white dotting when Sor'jek aggro'd on someone who was not on the platform, irregardless of how far away they were.

Good find.
Definite bug, Sor is trying to race/teleport down the mountainside obviously and rubber bands.

PsychoBlonde

12-23-2015, 04:00 PM

Problem.. boss white dotting during battle on the small contained platform.
Fixing the white-dotting/aggro for the Boss is something to clean up a currently glitchy mechanic with the endfight in the Tempest spine Raid.

Declaring something a glitch because you don't like it does not *make* it a glitch. Declaring after that that it should be fixed BECAUSE it is a glitch is completely circular.

There are a LOT of fights in the game where it's possible to re-set a boss--even to do it completely by accident or just through bad luck. This does not necessarily imply that said fight is "glitched" or "bugged" or is somehow non-functional. Fortis making Legendary Shroud uncompletable is a glitch. A completely functional aggro mechanic working exactly as it was designed to is NOT.

If the devs feel it could stand a change, that's fine. If not, also fine. People will learn to cope.

JOTMON

12-23-2015, 05:00 PM

Declaring something a glitch because you don't like it does not *make* it a glitch. Declaring after that that it should be fixed BECAUSE it is a glitch is completely circular.

There are a LOT of fights in the game where it's possible to re-set a boss--even to do it completely by accident or just through bad luck. This does not necessarily imply that said fight is "glitched" or "bugged" or is somehow non-functional. Fortis making Legendary Shroud uncompletable is a glitch. A completely functional aggro mechanic working exactly as it was designed to is NOT.

If the devs feel it could stand a change, that's fine. If not, also fine. People will learn to cope.

I see you are still trying to derail my feedback on something I believe to be bugged with pointless commentary and turn this into something its not.
What I don't understand why you are so focussed on trying to turn this particular specific issue and turn it into something else.

I am not talking about any other quests where bosses reset, by whatever means, I never brought up anything about Fortis and his bugged mechanics due to something completely different..

I am pointing out a mechanic where Sor'jek white dots when aggro'd on Thrown players that are no longer within line or anywhere within the expected aoe for the aggro mechanics to function.

I am not talking about making the quest easier like you stated.. here...

Oh, I'm sorry, yes, victory in one shot should be *guaranteed*.

or even workarounds like you try to push here..

Has anyone attempted the various methods of controlling aggro available in the game? Intim, diplomacy, bluff, heck, just dropping into sneak mode since you're out of LoS might be enough to clear aggro. These are all worth trying before you start screaming. Has everyone taken their feather fall off?

I am not talking about the boss difficulty or even care how you successful led 2 quests by using ranged and changing tactics.

Yeah, people were complaining about this elsewhere.

I actually don't have a problem with this because it makes the fight more interesting. It IS possible to not get thrown off. I've led the raid twice now and both times I cautioned people to fight up against the wall, not chase him if he retreats, use your ranged weapon if he backs off, etc. Result? No problems whatsoever. He's an easy raid boss. He should have something to make him more interesting.

If you are going to reply to posts at least make them relevant to the conversation in the context of the original thread.
I have no interest in entertaining your attempts to derail this into something else..

Its a simple observation on a mechanic that I do not believe is working correctly that I believed was worth mentioning and should be something the dev's should take a look at.

If you don't agree, fine, whatever, but at least stay on topic....You have talked circles around the issue that have no relevance to the specific issue..

The issue (simplified without details or explanations) :

'Sor'jek white dots when aggro'd on Thrown players'

......If this is WAI, then a dev can say so and we can quote him to the end of time.. If not.. have a look and see if theres some coding or whatever that can address the issue.....

Xionanx

12-24-2015, 04:46 AM

ON TOPIC: Enemies one shotting people are lame, new mechanics are lame.. and new random loot is lame.

Nostalgia and hope things will get better.

Same.. I have sworn off this game multiple times.. Every time I end up coming back, I read release notes it just ****ess me off, I try to play for a few days.. but ultimately I just feel like the developers are ******** on the players over and over again and leave again..

Talon_Moonshadow

12-24-2015, 09:02 AM

Did an experiment today.

Stepped into the Shroud on LE.
I was curious whether it really was every monster that was doing 2k damage.

Well.... yeah... yeah it is...lol

I went into sneak mode.

Agroed a single Orthon and brought him over to play one on one.

I dodged, I displaced... then he hit me for 2452 after 452 were blocked by my damage reduction.....

Then went back.

Tried a Trog Warrior this time.
He damage was indeed less.... but he did some 1.5+k to me. (after damage reduction)

Then a Bezikira(sp)
About the same as the Trog.

Didn't feel like trying every single type of thing in there.. but yeah... 2 - 3k it seems.

Ok... who the heck has 2 -3 K HP?
Who has damage reduction that would reduce that to a survivable number?

But yes... we of course do have options in a full group.

Wish I had a caster flagged to test saves and spell resistance, but I don't right now....

One more thing (idea).
So I picked up the four Gauntlet items and took a look at them.
Although I cannot remember for sure, they appear un-changed from heroic Shroud.

Shame... you guys missed a great opportunity there.

How about you make those items (like the Shield for example) allow people using them to tank these monsters?

Anyway....
While we certainly have options....
The vast majority of players will not find it fun to die any time they take a single hit.

I do not know yet what new gear we have or how that will change things, but I find it diffult to believe the new gear is sooo good that it will make a 2 - 3k difference.

P.s. Variety maybe?
If it was just one mob... like the Orthons..... it might be ok IMO.
Variety is more fun anyway. I've preached that before. (but it seems no one listens. :( )

P.P.S. The blades were only doing something 140-150ish to me it seemed.
I think I would prefer it is the blades one-shotted us and not the monsters... just a thought.

PNellesen

12-24-2015, 09:20 AM

Ran Tempest's Spine and Shroud a few times each, both on LN and LH. (No LE yet)

Tempest's Spine:

LN is... well, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that at some point someone soloes it at level 20 on a first-life character with no Epic Destinies. Short-manned it with maybe 7 people and the mobs might as well not have been there. Call it a good level 30 loot run.
LH - in a group of well-geared players who know it well, it's very, very easy. In a group of people less familiar with it, with little communication, and not-quite-ready-for-prime-time characters, it's tougher, but still not all that much of a challenge.

Legendary Shroud:

LN - about the same difficulty as Heroic Normal was when cap was 20, though Part 2 and Part 3 can be a challenge if you have players unfamiliar with Heroic Shroud in the group.
LH - have only ran it once, with a pretty strong group (1 round in Part 4, very few deaths overall). Seemed to be a good difficulty - smooth (but not a cakewalk) if everyone's paying attention and working together, but I can see it being a disaster for your typical pug raid group.

In both cases the portals were a boring slog. Not sure what the point of the curse is when they explode, but it's just annoying (and blockable by Spell Absorption item). Dropping their HP by at least 1/3 would be nice.

lyrecono

12-24-2015, 10:43 AM

I melee him and run around in a circle on a low PRR/HP toon. He has trouble attacking you. This works nicely for beholders as well. You can range him and do less damage on LE (even on your melee toon) if you can't stand dying.

I don't believe you took a critical hit (although you do need more fort). Its going to take 2000+ HP and 220+ PRR to survive a hit. Tanks can build to this. If they can intimidate, the rest of your melee can attack away.

i call bs, my main has 2200hp, 230 prr (100mrr), 250+fort and all i could do were drive by hits. lv 30 toon btw, when he cleaves you get 1 shot-ed, incl the "tank"

better question is why bother running Tempest Spine in the first place. Even on LE with a good group it presents too little challenge to be fun and the loot is garbage.

If a tree falls on a terrible raid in a forest and nobody's playing it, does anybody care?

i agree, at least the original tempest spine had decent loot in the other chests, maelstrom, star of irian or the goggles were decent gear for its level.

Now every one is trolling the part chat with; robes of repair amp, docents of swimming, great axes of assassinate and other trash to point out turbines failure

At least i was able to pick up the Platemail of the Celestial Avenger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Platemail_of_the_Celestial_Avenger), don't get me wrong, it's far from great but there is no reason to keep wearing the tf platemail, with or without dr 60, you get 1 shot-ed anyway.
It should have come with a cosmetic though, the wings look stupid and for a platemail, it looks to much like a spray paint job

I guess thy're not putting decent named loot in the side chest out of fear people weren't gone make greensteel stuff.
To be honest, without enough information, i refuse to craft anything at all.

Back n topic, since the patch, lag has gone down somewhat, now it comes in waves of 30 seconds instead of 12 minutes.

Btw, whats up with champion mobs in raids, did turbine come back on their promise?

JOTMON

12-24-2015, 11:21 AM

i call bs, my main has 2200hp, 230 prr (100mrr), 250+fort and all i could do were drive by hits. lv 30 toon btw, when he cleaves you get 1 shot-ed, incl the "tank"

i agree, at least the original tempest spine had decent loot in the other chests, maelstrom, star of irian or the goggles were decent gear for its level.

Now every one is trolling the part chat with; robes of repair amp, docents of swimming, great axes of assassinate and other trash to point out turbines failure

At least i was able to pick up the Platemail of the Celestial Avenger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Platemail_of_the_Celestial_Avenger), don't get me wrong, it's far from great but there is no reason to keep wearing the tf platemail, with or without dr 60, you get 1 shot-ed anyway.
It should have come with a cosmetic though, the wings look stupid and for a platemail, it looks to much like a spray paint job

I guess thy're not putting decent named loot in the side chest out of fear people weren't gone make greensteel stuff.
To be honest, without enough information, i refuse to craft anything at all.

Back n topic, since the patch, lag has gone down somewhat, now it comes in waves of 30 seconds instead of 12 minutes.

Btw, whats up with champion mobs in raids, did turbine come back on their promise?

I am disappointed they opted for 15 different randomly dropping armors, instead of consolidating them into upgradeable versions that could have potential for everyone.
....This was supposed to be endgame worthy armor for everyone...
I had suggested in the Lamannia thread changing that to a trade in version for ingredients with upgrades, but I think they were already vested with what they released that they couldn't entertain anything else.

Could we get a cleaner generic version of the armors, do something along the lines of FOT/MOD/TF

upon acquisition base item (Heavy/Medium/Light/Robes/Dress/Docent):
•+13 Enhancement Bonus
•Fortification - Enhancement Bonus to Fortification (160%)
•Blurry - 20% Concealment
•Parrying - +10 Insight Bonus to AC, +5 Insight Bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Willpower
•Sheltering - Sheltering (+38 MRR and PRR)
•Green Slot
•Green Slot

Then have upgrade selection choices for..

T1 Enhancement Upgrade - select 1 of:
•Deathblock IX - (* relocated to T1 to be a selectable option since Deathblock and PM's don't play nice together*.. *re: Brenna)
•Max Dex Bonus - This item has an allowance for 4 points of additional Dexterity Bonus.
•Enchancement - Dodge - Enhancement Dodge Bonus (+15)
•Reduces Threat by Melee Damage by 22%
•Enhancement Bonus to Melee Alacrity 15%
•Enhancement Bonus to Ranged Alacrity 20%
•Green Slot

T2 Insight Upgrade - select 1 of:
•Insight - Spell DC's - Insight Spell Focus Mastery of +3
•Insight - Deadly - +6 Deadly Insight Bonus
•Angelic Grace - 150 Temporary hit points, 5% Proc Chance on Hit, internal cooldown 10 seconds
•Displacement (per Spell) - 5% Proc Chance on Hit, internal cooldown 30 seconds
•Green Slot

T3 Quality Upgrade - select 1 of:
•Quality - Doublestrike - Quality Bonus to Doublestrike (4%)
•Quality - Potency - Quality Bonus to Potency (27)
•Quality - Saves - Quality Bonus to All Saves +3
•Quality - Deadly - +6 Deadly Quality Bonus
•Green Slot

This would allow for much better versatility and desirability from all users and their build variants to build the armor around their toon and not build their toon around the armor.
Opens up opportunity to use selective desired choices, or augment slots to use existing in game augments .
Also enhances the quest farming to obtain required ingredients to upgrade items.

lyrecono

12-24-2015, 09:20 PM

I am disappointed they opted for 15 different randomly dropping armors, instead of consolidating them into upgradeable versions that could have potential for everyone.
....This was supposed to be endgame worthy armor for everyone...
I had suggested in the Lamannia thread changing that to a trade in version for ingredients with upgrades, but I think they were already vested with what they released that they couldn't entertain anything else.

i saw, good post, as usual, ignored.... :(

AzureDragonas

12-26-2015, 06:49 AM

Btw, whats up with champion mobs in raids, did turbine come back on their promise?

they are champions of codex not champs you know more for lore purpose

Silverleafeon

12-26-2015, 10:16 AM

Finished a LH shroud last night.
Everything went fairly well.
A bit of lag in part one but it cleared up for me.

Did EH Fire on Thunderpeaks afterwards with no bad lag (a bit laggy upon entering after doing a flagging run but it cleared up as well) was able to tank Fatty.

Nightmanis

12-27-2015, 05:31 AM

I did a legendary elite Tempest Spine the other day and it's the most fun I've had in a long time in DDO.

Granted, I was on a mechanic instead of a melee toon but I still had a blast. What're the trap dc's in there, anyway?

Talon_Moonshadow

12-27-2015, 12:05 PM

Did LE Tempest Spine yesterday and had a blast!

So... now I am totally torn.. (again) lol

Ok.. I play a Rgr mutt. Very versatile, and I ranged anything that wasn't CCed.

There were tons of deaths. Especially the end fight. (and the Inevitable fight).

I myself, only died three times. Twice at the end and once earlier when standing and waiting at a door, with nothing around to fight..... and then someone brought a giant to us from somewhere...... grrrrr!
Had yo go back to how I used to play years ago.... and never, never, never..... stand next to the group. Cause, someone always draws agro and gets me killed if I do. :(

But like I said... I had a blast!

I used 59 Rez scrolls.
Did not use much healing actually.

Sooooo....
How do I really feel? What is the right way to do this.

Ok... it really is not good for the game IMO, if defenses are meaningless. (in this case, HP and PRR DR)
It is really unfair to melees to be one-shotted by everything in a dungeon.

I do not think you should leave it that way.

But dang... I had fun!

esojiul

12-28-2015, 10:43 PM

I have done 3 raids on Legenday Elite, they where a challange and fun.

My Problem was on shourd because of the lag, but if that it solve, these right way to go.

Robbenklopper

12-29-2015, 10:47 AM

Now that Update 29 is up and running, we'd like to encourage people to keep giving us feedback on the Shroud - especially on Normal and Hard.

We’re also particularly interested in your experiences with the Legendary Hound of Xoriat, at any difficulty level.

So let us know how you're doing. When telling us your raid stories, please include the size of your group, as well as a rough idea of your party composition (how many could heal, etc.)

Knockback

I like the new-polished raids and ran them LN+LH on my pure Monk and pure barb. We were always full Group with at least one dedicated healer and roundabout 2 Warlock, the rest a mix of everything, everyone was capable of selfhealing too.
There was no threat at all, certainly becoz everyone was at least a Veteran, Multilifer and well-geared. So i won´t complain having a good time, but LH didn´t felt much different from EH besides the Mobs have a Little more HP and I got one-bashed one time.

Silverleafeon

12-29-2015, 04:39 PM

PUG ~~ Shroud LH failed, LN success, DoJ EH failed, EN success

A bit laggy at times in both raids still, but retrying a new instance seems to help.
At least for me, its not the game breaking party wipe lag, which is an improvement.

Fire on Thunder Peaks EH Pug success, no lag.

Temple of Deathwym EE pug, party wipe.

Tempest Spine LE channel formed/pug success, no lag, lots of rez scrolls used.

Hound LN PUG success, no lag, brought alt instead of uber puppy charmer.

Basura_Grande

12-29-2015, 05:02 PM

How do I really feel? What is the right way to do this.

Ok... it really is not good for the game IMO, if defenses are meaningless. (in this case, HP and PRR DR)
It is really unfair to melees to be one-shotted by everything in a dungeon.

I do not think you should leave it that way.

Feels good to agree with me doesn't it?

Talon_Moonshadow

12-29-2015, 10:35 PM

Feels good to agree with me doesn't it?

The difference is that I enjoyed it.

...and I have seen it before. And already knew how to handle the situation.

... and although I do think it is bad for the game, and I do think they should change it (eventually).

I can't help getting this huge satisfaction that finally... after all these years.. the "your gimped if you don't have XXX many HP crowd... actually will learn how to play the game in another manner.

(actually.. sadly, I know they will not... cause either Turbine will nerf this soon, or these guys will reroll to something other than melee.)(Although many of them will still die, cause contrary to popular belief the real secret to surviving oneshotting is not as simple as not meleeing...)

Atremus

12-30-2015, 10:33 PM

What were your Design goals?

LE is 1 shot. You have nullified melee builds.

LE 1 shot brings back healers.... To be resurrection bots. Not healers

You are promoting ranged damage and CC if it can be obtained. Yet Spell Pen is insane.

What are you actually balancing for on Elite? PRR is pointless?

Now some Thoughts on Shroud:

Portals are annoying. Tone down the HP at least 10%. This is the most boring phase.

Gnolls heal Harry too much. If there is lag (Spells don't land) and we are forced into a 2 round/3rounder than the gnomes come out and restore too much HP.

SableShadow

12-30-2015, 10:52 PM

I can't help getting this huge satisfaction that finally... after all these years.. the "your gimped if you don't have XXX many HP crowd... actually will learn how to play the game in another manner.

The various times casters were in, I got called 'a luggage class'.
I get it; I have zero sympathy for caster fans.
When The Full Narcissist Package was the vogue, I took a vacation rather than gut my character concept.
Now it's going, very predictably, ranged for most things; you know me, I've carried multiple ranged weapons since '06 and scorned people who don't for those times when it was appropriate.
But this is a little too much cutting the nose to spite the face for me.

Holymunchkin

12-30-2015, 11:56 PM

The hellball on the rakshasa needs a tell. On LE he oneshots a 2900 hp tank through spell absorb and some elemental absorbtion.

The Erinyhes needs to have her damage toned back in order to melee her at all on LE and not be a tank.

Please note that my post does not contain hyperbole. It is very disappointing to run LE on a dps melee even with 3 dedicated tanks with 140 intim.

Runerock

12-31-2015, 01:20 AM

I was in a raid train full party all LH on my Necro Wiz 68 INT 75 DC Hound no prob. Tempest Spine I lead the kill count NP. LH shroud was a nightmare, massive resource use and we did not get past Harry. 76K repair at the ferryman and I was only median.

Talon_Moonshadow

12-31-2015, 03:48 AM

The various times casters were in, I got called 'a luggage class'.
I get it; I have zero sympathy for caster fans.
When The Full Narcissist Package was the vogue, I took a vacation rather than gut my character concept.
Now it's going, very predictably, ranged for most things; you know me, I've carried multiple ranged weapons since '06 and scorned people who don't for those times when it was appropriate.
But this is a little too much cutting the nose to spite the face for me.

I've had trouble playing my pure Rogue assassin in EEs. I'm not even sure how I would try to approach LEs on her.

At lower levels, everything died before it could switch agro to me, but there came a point when monster HP were so high and save DCs were so high.... that instead of it being dead after one to three hits, it was now just really mad at me....lol

I do think they should change this and tone down the damage.

I think maybe they should keep it for some special monsters though.

As always, I push for variety.
We should have times when all of our super powers work, and times when we run in fear...lol.
Times when each class and style is valuable.
Times when melee should range.
(and times when ranged should melee....)

etc. etc.

IMO, that is a proper challenge.

But.... like I said, I did have fun....... on my Rgr mutt...lol
I do think that groups will begin to use more tactics eventually.

Melee is still useful, you just can't have agro. (and there are some AOE attacks you have to look out for as well.)
But yeah.....not as much fun to melee when one hit kills you.

... and gets old after awhile when every monster is that way... in a long quest....

It should be changed.

But right now, I do so enjoy watching those who can't resist charging into every fight........

SlashbackWarrior

12-31-2015, 02:31 PM

The difference is that I enjoyed it.
snp... actually will learn how to play the game in another manner..snip

Right, and as you sad people will just play not melee (ranged, shiradi, caster, after all). And though you sad that playing non melee will not guarantee deathless run it definitely will make you die less.

As my personal opinion i do like challenge on ee (Tempest only so far, mostly due to fear of lag in other raids), there are ways to beat it down including but not limited to going ranged, but lag issue make it extremely difficult to work around. This is raid - some team work intended, after all, and if its ee - it mean all 12 must work pretty hard.

On other note, portals in shroud are just too boring to beat up. All this punishing mechanics with insta kills and stacking death penalties - not something i like. I like Shroud puzzle part with almost instant wall - that is challenging mechanics that requires some game skill, keep you well paced and in tune. Harry beating, with healing gnolls (if you not doing one rounder) also keep people busy, without need to mindlessly hit your head into the extraplanar portals. Whith current mind set, why not just give people one death penalty every 5 minutes, "just because". I'm ok with super hard monsters once in a while (encounters or selected set of quests) but overall that should not be the primary way of challenging people.

Pnumbra

12-31-2015, 04:10 PM

Ok, now that I have run all the raids on all difficulties, I have the following insight:

LN versions of the raids are almost balanced...I think they need a tweak-bump up in challenge, just a small one, nothing over-the-top.

LH versions of the raids are just right. They are dangerous enough to kill a party that is not paying attention or entertaining a few pikers.

LE versions of the raids are a PITA. One shoot kills are not challenging but they are funny. Our group did more laughing than complaining to each other about *** 1900 damage! Is it possible to top off non-boss mobs between 400-800 its of damage with crits around 1,200pts? This is still very dangerous with medium to large mob attacks. Bosses should do 2,000pts on a critical hit.

Overall, they lack any real challenge because your implementations did not change player raid routines. You just added damage. As always, bosses with immunity to everything are a major bore. Nothing strategic or tactical about gang beating a boss to death. Spread out the danger in boss fights. Maybe the boss and 3-5 mini-bosses that do not require synchronized killing. On LE, the mini-bosses can be champions.

Talon_Moonshadow

12-31-2015, 05:48 PM

Right, and as you sad people will just play not melee (ranged, shiradi, caster, after all). And though you sad that playing non melee will not guarantee deathless run it definitely will make you die less.

As my personal opinion i do like challenge on ee (Tempest only so far, mostly due to fear of lag in other raids), there are ways to beat it down including but not limited to going ranged, but lag issue make it extremely difficult to work around. This is raid - some team work intended, after all, and if its ee - it mean all 12 must work pretty hard.

On other note, portals in shroud are just too boring to beat up. All this punishing mechanics with insta kills and stacking death penalties - not something i like. I like Shroud puzzle part with almost instant wall - that is challenging mechanics that requires some game skill, keep you well paced and in tune. Harry beating, with healing gnolls (if you not doing one rounder) also keep people busy, without need to mindlessly hit your head into the extraplanar portals. Whith current mind set, why not just give people one death penalty every 5 minutes, "just because". I'm ok with super hard monsters once in a while (encounters or selected set of quests) but overall that should not be the primary way of challenging people.

Well, I do think they should change it...

What I am hoping to see from the players is to learn how to slow down and work together with tactics so that melee can whack on stuff and survive.

Ranged is certainly way, way, way safer. But you can't just shoot everything and expect to survive either.
You can kite if you know how, but that doesn't always work. Works far less often with larger than man sized monsters that have a long reach.

Twelve people running around like headless chickes will still die.... just not as often.

Twelve ranged types working together will do fine...
..but so will twelve people of any class working together....

The group I was in had some headless chickens. Some charge into every fight and die types.
and some experienced people using various tactics to limit agro and CC things as best they could.

If more people just stopped running into every fight and pulled just a few and did their best to CC those... melees could wack on things just fine.

Now... all that said...

It really isn't right that HP, PRR, and DR and basically meaningless.
I am not for for that. Despite what other things I have said.
you should be able to build a tank build that is useful (without super grinding IMO)... and expect that toon to be useful in the highest content... assuming a certain level of gear, build, game knowledge etc.

That usefulness may require a babysitting healer... but if things one-shot everyone... that isn't right.

Variety Devs! In the same dungeon.

I'm totally ok with some monsters one-shptting players.
But everything?!
Not right...

Yes, we can handle it.. but it still ain't right.

not everything.

My vote: mix it up.

Habreno

01-01-2016, 10:21 PM

phalaeo

01-01-2016, 11:16 PM

I've ran all 3 several times on a Warchanter, a Swashbuckler, and a Warlock.

Shroud:
I'm glad to see a need for CC/Instakills again, but Pt. 1 trash mobs hit way too hard on LE. It's silly. I think the rest of the raid is well done, love the wall mechanic. End fight is a little repetitive, but I do like guessing what will spawn next. Material drops seem to be a little off... I have more smalls and mediums than I can use on 3 characters... I think the Large mat drop rate should be upped on LE.

Tempest's Spine:
Love it. But, I have my armor on 2/3 characters... what now? I'll run it for fun and random gen loot, but I'd like to see the chance of +7 tome drops in there.

Hound:
I love it and I hate it. I do like the fact that certain classes shine in different ways during the raid. My only critique (and I'm still working out strategy) is that on LE, you seem to need some really specific stuff to buff those puppies. If they don't have her down by Big Beholder time, it's hard to recover. So, I gimped my Warlock into Summon spec. Took all enhancements, feats, Druid PLs, run in Magister, twist in Primal Avatar ****, Heroes Companion.... and we get a Bard, and someone who can do Mark of the Hunted. Tank always has Consecration up.

Is it necessary to gimp your Warlock to do it on LE? I'm not sure. I do know that we've had smooth LE completions and are working on speed runs.... we hit the 7:37 run tonight. I can say that you need more than the heroic version's standard Acid resist, Stoneskin, Mass Bull's and Bear's. But.... I have my armor and my speed run.... what now?

All in all, it was fun to figure out what would increase puppy damage. Oh! I've been in the center on all runs, but several players have reported CHA damage in the 200's? Is that WAI? And people have also commented that the orange reavers (the big ones) have an unnatural melee range.

Kwyjibo

01-02-2016, 07:36 AM

...
Hound:
Oh! I've been in the center on all runs, but several players have reported CHA damage in the 200's? Is that WAI? And people have also commented that the orange reavers (the big ones) have an unnatural melee range.
The CHA damage is 247. Which got me by just one, cause of course I run around with 246 CHA :p

Silverleafeon

01-03-2016, 02:40 AM

Lol +1

phalaeo

01-03-2016, 12:52 PM

The CHA damage is 247. Which got me by just one, cause of course I run around with 246 CHA :p

More like maybe 10 base CHA, at most. You just happen to have an excellent Diplo and Bluff items to make up for it. :p

Freaking Dwarves, I swear....

Folker

06-17-2016, 11:37 AM

LE Shroud, nobody seems to run it because it doesn't get you any extra large ingredients.

Eldried

06-21-2016, 12:43 PM

LE Shroud, nobody seems to run it because it doesn't get you any extra large ingredients.

Yes it does...

3 larges for LE, 2 for LH and 1 for LN.

GregorianPL

06-21-2016, 12:54 PM

Vanhooger

06-21-2016, 01:26 PM

new Legendary raids monsters should not hit so hard on Epic Elite its easy to die on 2-3 hits from a single monster, beating up even a small group is like a suicide and always someone dies.. from the opposite side normal is really easy... it could be atleast 50 % more difficult, hard is just ok i would say

LE shroud is easy if you got people that knows what to do and bring in a decent build.

That it's not the case of 99% of pugs.

So nobody run it on LE.

Our LE run are faster and somehow easier then most EH pug.

Gljosh

06-21-2016, 01:43 PM

I've ...

Hound:
I love it and I hate it. I do like the fact that certain classes shine in different ways during the raid. My only critique (and I'm still working out strategy) is that on LE, you seem to need some really specific stuff to buff those puppies. If they don't have her down by Big Beholder time, it's hard to recover. So, I gimped my Warlock into Summon spec. Took all enhancements, feats, Druid PLs, run in Magister, twist in Primal Avatar ****, Heroes Companion.... and we get a Bard, and someone who can do Mark of the Hunted. Tank always has Consecration up.

Is it necessary to gimp your Warlock to do it on LE? I'm not sure. I do know that we've had smooth LE completions and are working on speed runs.... we hit the 7:37 run tonight. I can say that you need more than the heroic version's standard Acid resist, Stoneskin, Mass Bull's and Bear's. But.... I have my armor and my speed run.... what now?

All in all, it was fun to figure out what would increase puppy damage. Oh! I've been in the center on all runs, but several players have reported CHA damage in the 200's? Is that WAI? And people have also commented that the orange reavers (the big ones) have an unnatural melee range.

I really enjoy Hound, I currently have an Arti with 3 Druid PPLs, Augment, Improved Augment, and the Harper bonuses. With Arti buffs and a Bard it takes quite awhile for to take mommy down. LN is pretty easy, LH is difficult but as long as the garbage men keep working its manageable. LE pretty much requires a Summoner and getting 4 dogs.

I wonder if the Epic Thraak Hound summon can hurt mommy?

GregorianPL

06-21-2016, 01:58 PM

Sorry i cant agree with you if 200 prr+ 2400 hp+ barbarian is killed in 3 hits from some troglodyte on LE for me this is absolutelty bad desing on hard getting hit for 230-300 damage i would say is ok u can last this 7-10 hits if they would hit for about 500 damage i could take it for me scaling on Legendry Content is a joke, like i said normal is like a walk i did it with a warlock as 2 man, i was beating portals and he was beating trash even part 2 was easier than in a big group we prepared mobs, he went on crystal i killed 4 mobs really smooth alone, part 3 he could knock the door i ran water, part 4 was easy and part 5 just some trash killing i usually didnt like this part and i did pike but i did normal just once and it was that 2 man run from experience from previous parts i saw mobs hit for low dmg so i helped him and we did whole run in 47 mins most time was part 1 and 5

ezmeweatherwax

07-27-2016, 01:55 PM

Legendary Shroud still has a bugged out portal keeper that spawns on top of the wall (to the left of the 6th? portal) and cannot be hit by ranged, though, happily, he can range us since those invisible walls never work both ways. This is quest breaking on elite, on hard you just beat the portal down quickly enough and all is well.

psykoosi

07-28-2016, 06:50 AM

JOTMON

07-28-2016, 11:28 AM

So my personal opinion is that Legendary Elite raids are too easy after you have done them couple times. You need about 3-4 people who know what they are doing and rest of the party can be meatshields with resurrection scrolls, it doesn't really matter. Some people are complaining monsters hitting too hard but that's just own fault if you get hit, just adjust your gameplay accordingly. Let other people (whether it is a ranged build or a tank) get the aggro first, or caster to crowd control monsters first 'like back in a day yo'. Playing straight up melee dps without good defenses and not caring about aggro just isn't the way to go here. I have been thinking about new challenging difficulty idea for a while now and gonna throw it out there, I'm sure experienced people who try to find challenge in DDO would pretty much love it, atleast the people I have talked about it would.

people did adjust their gameplay the changed to ranged toons and stopped playing clerics.

Hardcore difficulty:
- Let monster stats just stay as they are on legendary elite = no extra work for coders
- 1 hour rez timer when you die, that is removed after quest/raid is completed. Mechanic for this already exists in FoT, LoB = no extra work for coders. Also means you really have to be careful in what you do, and this very thing would bring good healers (YES I SAID HEALERS) value back to the game.
- Make a cannith challenge type entry so you can only enter the raid/quest 3 minutes after it's started so people just cant change characters after they die. Also, mechanic already exists in the challenges = no extra work there either.

What this would overall do, is the people who want to get the challenge could get some, playing healers would be a thing again, 'tanks' would get to do their thing and value of good crowd control would be golden. Kinda back to the roots thing, with an extra twist. What would be more fun than start Legendary Hardcore shroud p5 with 3 people remaining? :)

Hope you like the idea, I surely do
Steelrender, the bringer of bad dreams

1 hour rez timer is a terrible plan.. . Most people have limited time to log on to play the game, a 1 hour death timer.. would not bode well..
all this will do is stop people from playing those quests, if they cant recall and re-enter, or recall switch toons, they may just drop group/ragequit..or afk in a corner for an hour to rez dead people...
so then what.. add countdown quest fail timers...
This wont bring healers to the game, a healer is useless if they cant rez/heal dead people.. a unrezzable dead healer is also useless.

A healer is a subpar choice when the current game mentality is kill mob fast. dead mobs do no damage, can heal after the fight or jump around self healing while other players continue the damage.

healers are only useful if they can heal efficiently and more effectively than a melee self healing.. and in current content.. they cant..
a healer really has to be on their game and lucky to keep good players from getting killed (that are not healing themselves).
Problem is that healers cant react quickly enough, don't have temp hp buffs to preemtively buff players about to be hit,
they are mana inefficient, have poor cure sla's to offset incoming damage, aoe heals are subpar on scattered players trying not to get one shotted.
Its easier to play a ranged or melee with self healing capability than a healer with poor DPS.
Warlocks have a nice advantage of being able to temp hp boslter their toons so can compensate for incoming hits.. healers are lacking this ability for others..
Hopefully Divine Pacts (like the Warlock Pacts) if they ever get implemented will help the clerics..

A tank cant tank if he cant take a few hits and keep tanking.. (warlocks are filling this void nicely so far due to the temp hp buff and complimentary enhancements), otherwise its better off being ranged and kite.
Tanks need to be able to consistently hold aggro while taking multiple hits and require minimal ongoing healing..
Something that allows a tank to be able to absorb more damage over time, the longer the fight the more survivable the tank becomes...to get away from the mass brute zerg DPS trend..
~Something like a stand your ground type of stance that gives them massive heal amp, increasing ticks of stacking PRR/MRR as long as they don't move.
gain 1 PRR/MRR/Heal Amp/threat for every second they stand still with no cap(or a ridiculously high one)... once they move. it resets or they lose large stacks when they move...
This way the longer the tank stands still the harder he becomes to hurt and easier to heal. a good incentive for the prolonged battle.

Until something like this happens, players will just migrate to the self survivable toon that does the most damage while taking the least amount of damage.. which is currently is ranged toons...
sure there are a few clerics out there using amalorating strike or bastardized their builds into multi-class variants.. and they do fine.. but they are not needed for a party.
and there's a few tanks out there that can take more than 2 hit in the hardest at level content.. but those still cant be efficiently healed reliably for a fight duration.
Oldschool tanks could be cycle healed with heal scrolls and only needed the occasional spot cure if they dropped too low.. todays fight is 1-2 shot. dead.., easier to spam rezzes than heals.

Its come down to gangbang style combat where everyone targets the same mob and mass beats them down as fast as possible with as much brute DPS as can be mustered while everyone lays down whatever heals they can.
...unfortunately the way I see the game today.. mass brute zerg DPS wins the day, a prolonged battle is a failure, toons that don't deliver decent fast bursts of damage only hinder the party...

3 people left in LE part 5 shroud while the rest are unrezzable.. would likely be a screwit . DDoor.
or would it be a.. everyone afk for an hour in part 4...

psykoosi

07-28-2016, 02:05 PM

1 hour rez timer is a terrible plan.. . Most people have limited time to log on to play the game, a 1 hour death timer.. would not bode well..
all this will do is stop people from playing those quests, if they cant recall and re-enter, or recall switch toons, they may just drop group/ragequit..or afk in a corner for an hour to rez dead people...
so then what.. add countdown quest fail timers...
This wont bring healers to the game, a healer is useless if they cant rez/heal dead people.. a unrezzable dead healer is also useless.

You completely missed my point here. I'm not saying hardcore/reaper mode should be for everyone, just for those who actually want some challenge on a game that they like since at the moment there is none. Only challenge currently is that did you remember to stock resurrection scrolls before raid.
And I disagree on the importance of the healers with this. Legendary elite shroud you can take a hit or two and still live if you got good build, top notch gear and you know how to play. Simply cocoon healing for your ranged dps is not enough if Mitanu is shooting you 700-800points per bolt. You want good healer designated on you so you don't die.

Steelrender

JOTMON

07-28-2016, 03:56 PM

You completely missed my point here. I'm not saying hardcore/reaper mode should be for everyone, just for those who actually want some challenge on a game that they like since at the moment there is none. Only challenge currently is that did you remember to stock resurrection scrolls before raid.
And I disagree on the importance of the healers with this. Legendary elite shroud you can take a hit or two and still live if you got good build, top notch gear and you know how to play. Simply cocoon healing for your ranged dps is not enough if Mitanu is shooting you 700-800points per bolt. You want good healer designated on you so you don't die.

Steelrender

meh.
Mitanu.. safest bet is to not have anyone close enough to him to get cleave splatted, and no straight line of sight for him to pew pew you..
I kite him around corners while plinking him with ruin/greater ruin, throw some aoe at his feet and circle him in it.. and self heal,
While I don't disagree that an occasional spot heal from someone helps.. it still doesntjustify a dedicated healer.. especially here where the 4 are going to be split, and there is wandering respawn trash.
The healers time is divided and healer is limited to like of sight healing.. no cures through the walls... so would be too much running around trying to find people that need healing.
Two people doing DPS and spinning his aggro and covering each other works just as well.

I understand what you are saying for Reaper Mode, just don't support the long death timer.
That may work for casual pikers who want to afk for the quest, but we don't have that kind of time to not contribute to the group in this type of content..
.. I think it would just push players to reset the entire instance and start over if people died.

From my perspective..disabling potions/scrolls would better achieve the difficulty goal to require healers... but is that really the way to get clerics into the groups instead of revamping clerics to be better contributors..
I still don't understand why Turn undead is such sh.aving cream...

Clerics should be walking undead destroyers where you would want a cleric to wade in obliterating any sign of walking dead.. only the most powerful undead should have a chance of facing a cleric...
Instead undead turns are used to power aura burst blasts, and laughed at as a measure to contend with the undead.
Turn undead should be like a Energy burst of light for massive damage if they save vs the instadeath.... instead.. we have a poor turn undead vs hd mechanic that inevitably fails and a pitiful 2d6/cleric level ..
better off powering the aura/burst than wasting it on a failed turn attempt.

as far as I am concerned Clerics are lacking and have been for a long time. without a divine pact pass and a class pass they are subpar.. left to be a TR rinse/repeat for the past life bonus.. or some flavor build.

JOTMON

07-28-2016, 04:14 PM

Yes it does...

3 larges for LE, 2 for LH and 1 for LN.

not enough to encourage people to try to up their game to Elite difficulty.
Fail risk and time sink along with the resource investment doesn't support the risk vs reward.

LE should double every chest over hard at all phases.

psykoosi

07-28-2016, 04:26 PM

I understand what you are saying for Reaper Mode, just don't support the long death timer.
That may work for casual pikers who want to afk for the quest, but we don't have that kind of time to not contribute to the group in this type of content..

Yea, well originally the idea was not to be able to be rezzed while the quest is active, just after it. So if you die you would just be a spectator x)
Just converted it into a mechanic that already exists so it wouldn't require much work from coders view.
I kinda miss those old days and excitement when it was a possibility to actually fail a raid. Nowadays when even low charisma 1st life dwarf barbarian is able to use rez scrolls with 100% it is not really possible, stuff might just take longer, but it will get done.

Steelrender

EDIT: With exception LE hox can get a clusterf#¤% if there's billion beholders roaming around, tho it should never get to that point in the first place :)

Ellihor

07-28-2016, 06:59 PM

Yea, well originally the idea was not to be able to be rezzed while the quest is active, just after it. So if you die you would just be a spectator x)
Just converted it into a mechanic that already exists so it wouldn't require much work from coders view.
I kinda miss those old days and excitement when it was a possibility to actually fail a raid. Nowadays when even low charisma 1st life dwarf barbarian is able to use rez scrolls with 100% it is not really possible, stuff might just take longer, but it will get done.

Steelrender

EDIT: With exception LE hox can get a clusterf#¤% if there's billion beholders roaming around, tho it should never get to that point in the first place :)

I totally agree with you, except on the one hour death. Same time as FoT is just fine.

BTW those people who are saying elite is too hard, not worth it blablabla don't belong to this conversation about "legendary hardcore", so please just ignore it, like we do ignore the conversation about LH. It's funny how you are saying that LE is not worth running, because personally I think totally the opposite and for me LH is what is not worth running... I have at least 2 characters 100% on timmer for over a month doing only elite runs, I really can't rememeber last time I did on hard, probably was when I was lvling. Also, this talk about "can't mlee" is total nonsense. If you have a barb with over 2k hp and 170 PRR you shouldn't have problems, if you have you are doing it wrong.