I try to help when I can, but...

[mobrien316]

I put up an LFM for Disciples of Shar. Someone wants to join, I click “accept”, and they ask me where it is. I tell them it’s in Eveningstar on the way to the docks. They ask how to get to Eveningstar. I tell them that if they don’t have the key clickie, they can log out and log back in by clicking on Forgotten Realms instead of Eberron. They say they don’t want to do that. I ask if they’ve run the Lords of Dust chain and they say they have not. I say that without logging out and logging back in they won’t be able to get to Eveningstar if they don’t have the clickie or they haven’t run the Lords of Dust chain.

The reply was “Well, thank you for no help at all. This is why the game is dying – no one helps new players.”

Then they dropped.

I can only hope it was a ten-year-old kid being that immature and petulant and not an adult.

[Krelar]

Obviously you should have bought a bracelet of friends from the DDO store and teleported him to you. :rolleyes:


Or since he apparently doesn't know his way around, gone to reaver's refuge and telported him there. He'd probably never find his way out again.... ;)

[Amundir]

Once you get the "I don't want to do that." it's pretty much over.

[Darkmits]

Obviously you should have bought a bracelet of friends from the DDO store and teleported him to you. :rolleyes:It doesn't work if the recipient of the summon hasn't unlocked Eveningstar in their current life. Tried it with my 5th life friend a couple of weeks ago.

But to be cynic, the game is dying because the player you encountered is a singificant part of the playerbase: "I want something but I don't want to do what it takes"

[Dragnipurake]

You do realize that the login to Eveningstar has to be bought from the store? Meaning that the player most likely did not own it and had no inclination to do so.

Hence, all your insisting on logging out and back in was rather pointless and a partly wrong information as well.

[SirValentine]

You do realize that the login to Eveningstar has to be bought from the store? Meaning that the player most likely did not own it and had no inclination to do so.

Hence, all your insisting on logging out and back in was rather pointless and a partly wrong information as well.

Was it? All Iconic characters automatically have it, regardless of whether you've separately purchased it for the rest of your account.

[Dragnipurake]

Was it? All Iconic characters automatically have it, regardless of whether you've separately purchased it for the rest of your account.

And where do you get the information that said player was on an iconic character?

[Daine]

I say that without logging out and logging back in they won’t be able to get to Eveningstar if they don’t have the clickie or they haven’t run the Lords of Dust chain.

If I didn't know of this, I'd swear the person saying this was trolling me.

Moving from one land to another in other MMO's: simply walking there, teleporting, buying passage on a ship and sailing, flying on an amazing mount over an epic wilderness hinting at things to come. DDO: Log out and back in again!

Keep up with the spirit of generosity Mobrien, I find it hard to blame the newb in this case.

[Algreg]

You do realize that the login to Eveningstar has to be bought from the store? Meaning that the player most likely did not own it and had no inclination to do so.

Hence, all your insisting on logging out and back in was rather pointless and a partly wrong information as well.

I see, "insisting"...no kidding, OP, give it a few more posts, you´ll be painted as teh evil elitist who makes the game unplayable for poor casuals with 10 jobs and 15 kids and all newbies. Welcome to the GW2 generation of MMORPG :)

[Dragnipurake]

I see, "insisting"...no kidding, OP, give it a few more posts, you´ll be painted as teh evil elitist who makes the game unplayable for poor casuals with 10 jobs and 15 kids and all newbies. Welcome to the GW2 generation of MMORPG :)

Until you actually have something to contribute: here take your fish and now back under your bridge.

[SirValentine]

And where do you get the information that said player was on an iconic character?

I don't have that information. I don't know either way. It's merely a possibility. However, I'm not the one insisting the OP was wrong,when he may well have been absolutely right.

Where did you get the information that the player was NOT an Iconic before insisting that the OP's advice was pointless and wrong?

[scipiojedi]

I've joined an lfm for Shar before where this happened. We ended up running Lord of Dust chain for the newbie to get them to estar :)

[Vanhooger]

If it was me, and he was polite I could even run evening chain for him, but since he wasn't I would probably kick him from the party.

[Faltout]

It doesn't work if the recipient of the summon hasn't unlocked Eveningstar in their current life. Tried it with my 5th life friend a couple of weeks ago.

But to be cynic, the game is dying because the player you encountered is a singificant part of the playerbase: "I want something but I don't want to do what it takes"
Actually it doesn't work with teleportation between realms at all. You can't transport someone from eberron to forgotten realms or vice versa with a bracelet. And you can't teleport someone from eberron to eberron in a place where he doesn't normally have access to.


I've joined an lfm for Shar before where this happened. We ended up running Lord of Dust chain for the newbie to get them to estar :)
Wait, so you ran a chain that lasts at least one and a half hour to get someone flagged for a chain that lasts 40 minutes?

Or do you mean you zerged the LoD chain, thus ruining newbie's precious first time experience of the quests?

Even if I wanted to run the LoD chain for the newbie I would not even suggest it if I had an LFM up for shar. OP made all the right decisions. He suggested the hall of heroes, he mentioned what you need to be able to access it. That's definitely helping.

[CThruTheEgo]

And you can't teleport someone from eberron to eberron in a place where he doesn't normally have access to.

This isn't 100% accurate. You can use a bracelet to bring a first life level 5 character to the Isle of Forgotten Dreams so they can upgrade an ioun stone. Normally, you'd have to do a quest (Eye of the Titan iirc) to be able to get out there. I've actually done this before. Of course, you have to have the crystal discs from an alt, and you have to have someone willing to basically carry you through the quest, or multibox it I suppose.

And at OP, not much more you could have done. Some people simply cannot be helped.

[JOTMON]

Obviously you should have bought a bracelet of friends from the DDO store and teleported him to you. :rolleyes:


Or since he apparently doesn't know his way around, gone to reaver's refuge and telported him there. He'd probably never find his way out again.... ;)

I have wasted DDO store points and charges trying this.
It doesn't work.

Adding quests that can be run without running Lords of Dust first has complicated this.

Wheloon, Druids, Stormhorns, High Road, Haunted Halls, ES series 1.. all can be done without doing the LoD chain, but there is no clean way to get to the quests without logging off to switch load points or by having a key from previously running the chain.
FR is poorly setup to deal with iconic created toons, who then have to run to the hall of heroes or through the cave( you can go to Eberron without doing LoD) to get potions, scrolls, components and other assorted goodies..
You cant teleport to FR, but you can teleport from FR to all the destinations in Eberron.. even this is screwed up.. Teleport destinations should be realm restricted. Teleporting between realms should not be possible. it should require the planescaller.
We have a plamescaller to port to Amarath.. Is it really that difficult to setup a planescaller in the hall of heroes to port between the realms. or is this some sort of WoTC licensing issue.

All in all it is a poor mechanic that requires logging out then back in to get between the realms when the Hall of Heroes should be setup in a way to be able to talk to a planescaller or have a portal setup.
Isn't the hall of Heroes a portable hole like way station that could bridge into the rift between worlds that utilizes planescallers linking the hall of heroes between the two realms and possibly some future realms...

I would think it should non-lore breaking to bridge the hall of heroes into the rift between worlds and create transfer portals.. There should be a much cleaner system to port players to other realms.
Setup the foundation for the inter'plane'itary gateway system now instead of trying to fumble through this later with haphazard workarounds.

[Coyopa]

I have wasted DDO store points and charges trying this.
It doesn't work.

Adding quests that can be run without running Lords of Dust first has complicated this.

Wheloon, Druids, Stormhorns, High Road, Haunted Halls, ES series 1.. all can be done without doing the LoD chain, but there is no clean way to get to the quests without logging off to switch load points or by having a key from previously running the chain.
FR is poorly setup to deal with iconic created toons, who then have to run to the hall of heroes or through the cave( you can go to Eberron without doing LoD) to get potions, scrolls, components and other assorted goodies..
You cant teleport to FR, but you can teleport from FR to all the destinations in Eberron.. even this is screwed up.. Teleport destinations should be realm restricted. Teleporting between realms should not be possible. it should require the planescaller.
We have a plamescaller to port to Amarath.. Is it really that difficult to setup a planescaller in the hall of heroes to port between the realms. or is this some sort of WoTC licensing issue.

All in all it is a poor mechanic that requires logging out then back in to get between the realms when the Hall of Heroes should be setup in a way to be able to talk to a planescaller or have a portal setup.
Isn't the hall of Heroes a portable hole like way station that could bridge into the rift between worlds that utilizes planescallers linking the hall of heroes between the two realms and possibly some future realms...

I would think it should non-lore breaking to bridge the hall of heroes into the rift between worlds and create transfer portals.. There should be a much cleaner system to port players to other realms.
Setup the foundation for the inter'plane'itary gateway system now instead of trying to fumble through this later with haphazard workarounds.

But I can teleport from Amrath back to anywhere in Eberron...

[TrinityTurtle]

You do realize that the login to Eveningstar has to be bought from the store? Meaning that the player most likely did not own it and had no inclination to do so.

Hence, all your insisting on logging out and back in was rather pointless and a partly wrong information as well.

Not if the players was vip. HE should have asked if the player was, granted, but it's not an option only available in the store like expansions. Furthermore, the OP did not insist on anything, he gave all the relevant methods to travel to eveningstar when he was asked. There was literally nothing more he could do for this player, who responded rather rudely to the poster who took the time to try to help him.

[Jango-EX]

Yeah, some people can't be helped because they don't want help, they want everything handed out to them. :/

At least for one of these, we happen to find five who are actually grateful when we help. TRd all the way back to 1 for the first time in two years a couple days ago. Ended up helping a lot of newbies that now send me tells of "good afternoon, hey sorry for troubling you but should I sell gems or keep them?" and "hi, i'm lvl 3 now! thanks again for your help".

Made me enjoy DDO even more.

[temp42]

Really, neither party was entirely wrong. The OP gave the correct information, and the new player was frustrated that getting to a quest location was overly difficult. At this point the only real thing of relevance is delivery and personality, neither of which are meaningfully shown by the initial post.

As was mentioned, if someone told me the best way to get to the quest was to log out, I would have assumed they were lying as well, its just not a sensible system, everyone has had the 'alt F4' answer given to 'how do I do X' before after all. the whole hall of heroes crossover really needs a portal between the two halls that doesnt require a relog.

That said, the whole gating of large swaths of content with one quest chain that takes a bit of time to do often means that LFGs that appear viable are not actually available. This is terrible design. The key is a great workaround, but no-one with said key is going to not know how to get to eveningstar, so its only really useful for reincarnations not new players.

[Coyopa]

the whole hall of heroes crossover really needs a portal between the two halls that doesnt require a relog.

If they did this, they wouldn't be able to nickel-and-dime players for the ability to log out and click "Log into Eberron" or "Log into Forgotten Realms", now would they? /s

[Jango-EX]

They should add Eveningstar Cavern to the destinations that the dude in the ship sends you. We can already go from there to our ship, why not the opposite? Think that would be easy to implement and we could invite the newbie to our airship and tell them to come over. I agree that "oh, to come here you should return to the character selection screen and click to go to forgotten realms" sounds fishy if the one listening is not in the right mood.

[mobrien316]

You do realize that the login to Eveningstar has to be bought from the store? Meaning that the player most likely did not own it and had no inclination to do so.

Hence, all your insisting on logging out and back in was rather pointless and a partly wrong information as well.

I did not realize that, as I never bought it and am able to do it. I am VIP, if that perk comes with VIP.

However, the player seemed more like "I don't believe that logging out works" rather than doing or saying anything to indicate that he didn't own that ability. And it is not wrong to list possible ways of doing something, even if the person may not or does not have access to all of those methods.


What part of my post did you believe was me "insisting" on logging out and logging in?

[UurlockYgmeov]

you did fine...


but OP makes a valid argument for ability to 'skip Lords of Dust' storyline (like skip korthos story line so can travel to stormreach).

Many want to save LoD chain for epics - but have to do it if they want to access Estar without keying or logging.

Might want to suggest adding that feature.

[Coyopa]

I did not realize that, as I never bought it and am able to do it. I am VIP, if that perk comes with VIP.

However, the player seemed more like "I don't believe that logging out works" rather than doing or saying anything to indicate that he didn't own that ability. And it is not wrong to list possible ways of doing something, even if the person may not or does not have access to all of those methods.


What part of my post did you believe was me "insisting" on logging out and logging in?

That perk does come with VIP, just for the record. I have that ability and I am VIP and I have never (and would not) purchase the ability. It's just another avenue by which the developers are trying to siphon off people's TP, rather than figuring out how to make this possible without being janky.

[RistoffDervish]

That perk does come with VIP, just for the record. I have that ability and I am VIP and I have never (and would not) purchase the ability. It's just another avenue by which the developers are trying to siphon off people's TP, rather than figuring out how to make this possible without being janky.

I have been VIP since before Eveningstar came out and I didn't know that option was VIP only - it has always just been there.

After reading this a light bulb appeared over my head.

It finally makes sense to me why there is a freakin' 1 hour timer on the Key to Eveningstar. I never understood until now.

I love it when I accidentally move while trying to use it and get the timer and no teleport.

[Coyopa]

I have been VIP since before Eveningstar came out and I didn't know that option was VIP only - it has always just been there.

After reading this a light bulb appeared over my head.

It finally makes sense to me why there is a freakin' 1 hour timer on the Key to Eveningstar. I never understood until now.

I love it when I accidentally move while trying to use it and get the timer and no teleport.

Sadly, that is probably why there is still a timer on the key. I think we are witnessing the slow Farmville-ization of DDO...

[EllisDee37]

This isn't 100% accurate. You can use a bracelet to bring a first life level 5 character to the Isle of Forgotten Dreams so they can upgrade an ioun stone. Normally, you'd have to do a quest (Eye of the Titan iirc) to be able to get out there. I've actually done this before. Of course, you have to have the crystal discs from an alt, and you have to have someone willing to basically carry you through the quest, or multibox it I suppose.Was this a long time ago?

Right now, a level 5 can't even enter level 9 quests. I'd be shocked if you could enter a level 20 quest as a level 5.

Also, they lowered the level required to enter Inspired Quarter from 12(? I forget what it was) to 4 a year or two ago.

[temp42]

If they did this, they wouldn't be able to nickel-and-dime players for the ability to log out and click "Log into Eberron" or "Log into Forgotten Realms", now would they? /s

They can still charge for it if they want, throw up the same 'you dont own this, want me to bring up the store' window that f2p players get for trying quests they dont have. Just having the ability to not log out in order to use the fast travel would be nice.

[Coyopa]

Was this a long time ago?

Right now, a level 5 can't even enter level 9 quests. I'd be shocked if you could enter a level 20 quest as a level 5.

Also, they lowered the level required to enter Inspired Quarter from 12(? I forget what it was) to 4 a year or two ago.

I don't know about the rest, but Inspired Quarter is not the Isle of Forgotten Dreams. The Isle is where you run the quest that lets you unsuppress the ioun stones. Inspired Quarter simply has the one quest that opens access to the Isle of Forgotten Dreams.

[CThruTheEgo]

Was this a long time ago?

Right now, a level 5 can't even enter level 9 quests. I'd be shocked if you could enter a level 20 quest as a level 5.

Also, they lowered the level required to enter Inspired Quarter from 12(? I forget what it was) to 4 a year or two ago.

It was probably 2-3 years ago at most. I think my character was level 8 or 9 at the time. It definitely wasn't any higher than that. Bracelets were on sale and someone in group was wondering if you could bring a low level first life to upgrade an ioun stone. I had an sp ioun stone that I wanted to upgrade on that character and volunteered to test it out. I got the favor for it too. It increased my total favor but of course I couldn't see the favor because the quest wasn't listed in my quest list yet. When I got high enough level for the quest to show up, it showed the favor I'd received also. I have no idea if you can do this currently, but it was definitely possible then.

[Paleus]

People need to be able to direct their frustration with a poorly designed system properly. And I honestly agree, blaming someone for a system they have no control over does not show maturity, so I would hope they weren't an adult either.

Let's review. OP did not design the gating from Eberron to FR. Rather, OP gave this new player a listing of all the possible ways they could get to Eveningstar. Did they have a Key? (No) Had they done the LoD chain so they could transport through the harbor? (No) As a last resort they could log out to be able to log in to Eveningstar if they had that option. Did they want to test out that option? (No). Does OP know if the player has that option without sitting in front of their computer to see (No).

So at that point, it's perfectly legitimate for the new player to say something to the effect of "This is why the game is dying, because it has poorly designed systems." It is rather rude and misguided to instead blame another player for not helping when they just took the time to help as best as they were able. Lashing out at someone because the help they are able to provide you isnt the help you want is a sure way to get no further help in the future. And again because this is what would really annoy me, especially when you're blaming someone for something they had no control over in the first place.

[Mindos]

You cant teleport to FR, but you can teleport from FR to all the destinations in Eberron.. even this is screwed up.. Teleport destinations should be realm restricted. Teleporting between realms should not be possible.

Would you believe this is actually a bug? A bug that's been around since the begining, but a bug nonetheless?

[HAL]

People need to be able to direct their frustration with a poorly designed system properly. And I honestly agree, blaming someone for a system they have no control over does not show maturity, so I would hope they weren't an adult either.

Let's review. OP did not design the gating from Eberron to FR. Rather, OP gave this new player a listing of all the possible ways they could get to Eveningstar. Did they have a Key? (No) Had they done the LoD chain so they could transport through the harbor? (No) As a last resort they could log out to be able to log in to Eveningstar if they had that option. Did they want to test out that option? (No). Does OP know if the player has that option without sitting in front of their computer to see (No).

So at that point, it's perfectly legitimate for the new player to say something to the effect of "This is why the game is dying, because it has poorly designed systems." It is rather rude and misguided to instead blame another player for not helping when they just took the time to help as best as they were able. Lashing out at someone because the help they are able to provide you isnt the help you want is a sure way to get no further help in the future. And again because this is what would really annoy me, especially when you're blaming someone for something they had no control over in the first place.

Nice summation.

[goodspeed]

I put up an LFM for Disciples of Shar. Someone wants to join, I click “accept”, and they ask me where it is. I tell them it’s in Eveningstar on the way to the docks. They ask how to get to Eveningstar. I tell them that if they don’t have the key clickie, they can log out and log back in by clicking on Forgotten Realms instead of Eberron. They say they don’t want to do that. I ask if they’ve run the Lords of Dust chain and they say they have not. I say that without logging out and logging back in they won’t be able to get to Eveningstar if they don’t have the clickie or they haven’t run the Lords of Dust chain.

The reply was “Well, thank you for no help at all. This is why the game is dying – no one helps new players.”

Then they dropped.

I can only hope it was a ten-year-old kid being that immature and petulant and not an adult.

lol id say the game is dying because the mentally handicap can't help discuss a plan with one another. hell I don't think he could make a group.