Heavy Armor feat ...?

[cadence4]

With the new armor changes, is it still worth taking? If my maths are correct, it's a 9 PPR difference at lvl 20 (it's early, coffee has not set in, and maths and I never got along). There won't be enough feats to take the ones to buff it up after taking the proficiency.

I do know about the 10 PRR that comes with Greater Rage, but because I'm doing it wrong (but really fun thus far) with an OS/Harper ... Rage is usually only used as my Oh crud button honestly which would make taking the feat more useful. I just don't know, with these new changes, if spending a feat is still worth it.

I notice most builds take it at some point, but these were before the latest change and haven't been updated. So just curious since lvl 12 is coming up soon for me.

Thanks.

[Discpsycho]

IMO, it depends on your build. Half-orc barbarians have a pretty set-in-stone feat list until epic levels but humans get that extra feat early on. Fighter splashes get you more feats (though probably hamper your dps) and grant you heavy armor proficiency for free.

On a human barb, I'd go something like...
1: PA
1: Cleave
3: THF (or TWF, depending on your build)
6: GC
9: IC
12: ITHF
15: GTHF
18: Heavy Armor
21: OC
24: Epic DR
27: Blinding Speed

The only two of these I'd consider optional are Heavy Armor and Epic DR. With the new update, the max BAB will be 30, providing 45 PRR in Medium armor and 60 in Heavy. Non-humans will prefer heavy armor over Epic DR, especially 'cause it gives access to stuff like Shadow Guardian'd Thunderholme armor

[cadence4]

Ugh, definitely need more coffee. My char is a half-orc with THF, and I do plan on staying pure at this point. The current plan is to unlock a epic destiny or two before TR.

My feats are lining up thus far, though out of order as I started leveling before viewing the forums in depth. Still having a slightly hard time separating tabletop from DDO at times. I have a post it note posted during character creation that says "Con is not a dump stat" written repeatedly on it.

[unbongwah]

Remember that Shadow Guardian is still only available on heavy armor. So if that's intended to be your endgame armor choice, then yes, it's still worth taking the feat.

If not, then is there some other named heavy armor you want to equip? E.g., do you want an Unbreakable Adamancy set (http://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#Unbreakable_Adamancy) but prefer the hvy armor to med? If so, then again, it's worth the feat.

If the answer to both questions is "no," then I would say stick with med armor. The +10 PRR to med armor from Gtr Rage is almost enough to close the PRR gap w/heavy.

[cadence4]

While I played back in '08-10, I never had a character hit endgame. Heck, this is the first time I've hit double digits so I don't know what all is available in epics.

My gut feeling, being that I am in OS and rarely rage, that picking it up for the static PRR increase is still a good idea rather than the situational increase from Greater Rage ... but I wasn't quite understanding the change fully I guess. The new armor feats were giving me the feeling that without investing in them, it may not have been worth it anymore but it is sounding like it still is from your guys' helpful posts.

[AbyssalMage]

I switched to THF after the nerf to TWF so not sure what feat order I took any longer

1: Power Attack
3: Cleave
6: THF
9: IC: Slash (May switch this to Bludgeon @24)
12: iTHF
15: gTHF
18: WF: Slash (Switch to Bludgeon @ 24 if I make the IC change)
21: OC
24: (Open)
26 (Epic): pTHF
27: (Open)
28 (Epic):

If I choose to do HA, it will most likely be at 27, one level before HA: TF @ 28.
As far as GCleave, I have enough buttons to smash that I really don't need another one to also smash. But I may change my mind at 24, if I don't TR first.

[QuantumFX]

Remember that Shadow Guardian is still only available on heavy armor. So if that's intended to be your endgame armor choice, then yes, it's still worth taking the feat.

If not, then is there some other named heavy armor you want to equip? E.g., do you want an Unbreakable Adamancy set (http://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#Unbreakable_Adamancy) but prefer the hvy armor to med? If so, then again, it's worth the feat.

If the answer to both questions is "no," then I would say stick with med armor. The +10 PRR to med armor from Gtr Rage is almost enough to close the PRR gap w/heavy.

This. If you absolutely have to have Shadow Guardian, do it. Everything else though... I would say that free +4% more dodge is better than 5 PRR that you have to pay a feat tax for.


I switched to THF after the nerf to TWF so not sure what feat order I took any longer

1: Power Attack
3: Cleave
6: THF
9: IC: Slash (May switch this to Bludgeon @24)
12: iTHF
15: gTHF
18: WF: Slash (Switch to Bludgeon @ 24 if I make the IC change)
21: OC
24: (Open)
26 (Epic): pTHF
27: (Open)
28 (Epic):

If I choose to do HA, it will most likely be at 27, one level before HA: TF @ 28.
As far as GCleave, I have enough buttons to smash that I really don't need another one to also smash. But I may change my mind at 24, if I don't TR first.

You could also do more weapon focuses for the melee power benefits.

[unbongwah]

My gut feeling, being that I am in OS and rarely rage
. . . I can tell you're using English, but I don't understand your words. :p

that picking it up for the static PRR increase is still a good idea rather than the situational increase from Greater Rage ... but I wasn't quite understanding the change fully I guess.
The +10 PRR in med armor from barb lvl 11 is static; you should get it regardless of Rage. It's the +10 Melee Power which only applies while Raged.

I would say that free +4% more dodge is better than 5 PRR that you have to pay a feat tax for.
Should be more than that: most endgame med armor has MDB 10, while hvy armor is MDB 1 or 2. Or do you just mean the free Dodge from barb lvls? No sense leaving out the Dodge you can also pick up from gear, though.

You could also do more weapon focuses for the melee power benefits.
Sure, because as we all know, the only thing epic barbs are really lacking is Melee Power, amirite?! :cool:

[cadence4]

. . . I can tell you're using English, but I don't understand your words. :p

The +10 PRR in med armor from barb lvl 11 is static; you should get it regardless of Rage. It's the +10 Melee Power which only applies while Raged.

I know I know, it's the tabletop carry over. I find the fatigue far worse than the temporary rage benefit, which is why I went OS and it's far less rage dependent abilities (and more defense since I solo a lot). When I TR back around to Barb again, I think I'll throw in 3 Bard to ignore the fatigue and see if I can break this bad habit. Plus, I love saying Bardbarian.

Thanks for the clarification on the PRR. The dodge increase does seem to be worth it, so I'll stay with medium armor for now and work on my rage phobia.

[Hobgoblin]

I know I know, it's the tabletop carry over. I find the fatigue far worse than the temporary rage benefit, which is why I went OS and it's far less rage dependent abilities (and more defense since I solo a lot). When I TR back around to Barb again, I think I'll throw in 3 Bard to ignore the fatigue and see if I can break this bad habit. Plus, I love saying Bardbarian.

Thanks for the clarification on the PRR. The dodge increase does seem to be worth it, so I'll stay with medium armor for now and work on my rage phobia.

you know that at level 17 barb you are immune to the fatigue effect right?

[unbongwah]

you know that at level 17 barb you are immune to the fatigue effect right?
This. Until then, just stock up on Lesser Restoration potions. On my dwarf barbs, I like to combine them with Iron Stomach so it's like "ENERGIZE ME!!1!" :cool:

[cadence4]

But but but ... Bardbarian!!!

Yes, I realize they do but the problem is getting there. This is my first char to ever hit double digits so plat is extremely tight. Once I cycle back around I shouldn't have the money issues and can buy things like pots (been surviving on the collectable turn ins thus far).

But I realize there is much OS hate having read through the forums, but I find it very fun. The swash/os char I have is an absolute joy to play.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

i dont think heavy armor is worth it on a barb even if you wanted to use shadow guardian armor, which i think is overrated. id rather wear shadow striker armor or toee armor depending on fighting style.

[QuantumFX]

Should be more than that: most endgame med armor has MDB 10, while hvy armor is MDB 1 or 2. Or do you just mean the free Dodge from barb lvls? No sense leaving out the Dodge you can also pick up from gear, though.

+4% Dodge: For the sake of “Completeness”, I was comparing Epic Emerald Guard (MDB 6) and Epic Scales of Surety (MDB 10). Barbs already start out with 6% dodge (Due to uncanny dodge) so you can easily fill out the MDB of medium armor without an item.


Sure, because as we all know, the only thing epic barbs are really lacking is Melee Power, amirite?! :cool:

It sounded like AbyssalMage felt that there was nothing better to go with at higher levels.

[cadence4]

But ... since I'm planning on sticking with OS this life, won't I be lacking in Melee Power? I'm only at 10 at lvl 10 atm I believe.

[unbongwah]

Define "lacking" - relative to what? At what level? You're giving up DPS to go OS and more DPS by not Raging; does it matter if you're giving up a little bit more by not taking Weapon Focus feats as well?

[cadence4]

Thinking about 17+. Definitely not going for EE (don't want to inflict my fun, yet horribly gimpy build on others), just to unlock an Epic Destiny really before switching. So far I've not had any issues except trying Temple of Elemental Evil on hard at lvl 9. Everything else, so far, as been cake. From reading the forums though, I expect that to drop off as I continue to level but since this is my highest level char to date, I have only been able to gather the impressions from the forums though.

I was hoping taking Harper melee power enhancements would help make up the difference with losing the MP in the cores of the FB tree. Hence I was originally think the heavy armor feat would help since I was focusing on defense.

[unbongwah]

It would help if you actually posted your build, rather than us trying to play the forum equivalent of 20 Questions. ;)

[QuantumFX]

But ... since I'm planning on sticking with OS this life, won't I be lacking in Melee Power? I'm only at 10 at lvl 10 atm I believe.

Doubtful. You haven't hit Greater Rage or much in the way of feats. Epic destiny and Epic levels add most of the MP you see at endgame. There's also enhancements like Driving Force and Frenzy that you may not have invested the AP's into yet.

[cadence4]

But I'm learning so much from the responses!

Downloaded Character Builder Lite, so I hope this works. I did my best to remember to slot in what I took where, but I'm old so I'm sure it's not 100% accurate. I know my Jump skill is 1pt lower in game, but it wouldn't save until I spent all the points. Keep in mind this is my first char since 2010 (hence the Dex and Wis ... I remember getting held all the frick'n time last time I played), and am using him to learn all the changes in the game. Also, most of the things taken were before I started reading up on the forums. I do have the free feat from Fred and a dragonshard as well.

I only put it to current level, since I'm still trying out things as I progress though I feel like I am starting to get a good handle on the changes. Currently am planning T5 OS and Capstone, T4 Harper, a little strength into Half-Orc, then the rest in ... not 100% sure yet. As stated above somewhere, the only time I've had issues was in The Temple of Elemental Evil. Those traps ... *smh*

Vroot OS
Barbarian 10
Chaotic Good Half-Orc


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 20. . . .+2. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 14. . . .+2. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 14. . . .+2
Intelligence. . .6. . . .+2
Wisdom. . . . . 12. . . .+2
Charisma. . . . .6. . . .+2. . .


Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10
. . . . .------------------------------
Jump. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. . . . . .1 .1 .1 .10
Swim. . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . 8
Heal. . . 1. . . . . .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 . 5½
. . . . .------------------------------
. . . . . 8. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 3. 3. 3


Feats

.1. . . . : Weapon Focus: Slashing
.3. . . . : Power Attack
.6. . . . : Cleave
.9. . . . : Two Handed Fighting


Enhancements (40 of 40 AP)

Half-Orc (1 AP)
Orcish Fury

Occult Slayer (26 AP)
Weapon Bond, Resistance, Elemental Defense
Ear Smash III, Parrying Bond III, Uncanny Dodger III
Guarding Bond III, Lessons of Travel III
Bond of Retribution, Lessons of Nature III, Kinetic Bond III

Harper Agent (13 AP)
Agent of Good I, Dexterity
Harper Enchantment, Weathered Traveler II
Versatile Adept III
Versatile Adept III



Other stuffs:
Melee Speed: 5%
Melee Power: 10
PRR: 27
MRR: 15
Saves: Fort +14 Reflex +10 Will +14

Edit: I am a VIP and just bought both expansion during the sale. I think the only thing I don't have is FvS atm. I am also working concurrently with my human artificer as my crafter, though crafting is not overly high yet due to the crazy randomness of mat gathering.

[ccd1977]

This. Until then, just stock up on Lesser Restoration potions. On my dwarf barbs, I like to combine them with Iron Stomach so it's like "ENERGIZE ME!!1!" :cool:This or go WF or BF. Immune to fatigue. I ran this on my barb and he was a beast.