Racial Completionist

[JOTMON]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.

1. Requires levelling each race in a heroic life using a 'racial TR stone' (RTR) to recognize the Racial past life instead of the class past life.
2. Only achievable starting after the release of Gnomes (due to requiring RTR stone)

Each race will give a past life bonus similar to heroic class bonuses.. (yet to be determined) something like..
~Halfling +.5 Sneak attack die.. stackable to 3x..
~Drow Arcane Fluidity: Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5%/10%/15%
~~or other alternatives similar to bonuses from each of the individual racial tree's

So we have 9 classes with 9 TR lives using a 'Racial TR stone' (RTR) starting with the release of Gnomes to obtain racial completionist that gives 10 AP in the Racial Tree.
Dwarf,Elf ,Halfling, Human, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Warforged, Gnome.
.. 3.8mm XP * 9 lives = 34.2mm XP to achieve RTR before considering 3x for some more Racial past life perks.. seems fair enough..

..another hamster wheel to grind...

[LightBear]

I'd say go for it.
I'd especially like the suggestion for the drow racial past life benefit.

[Dragavon]

Is there some sort of competition to come up with the most ridiculous suggestion for even more power creep? :confused:

This is absolutely not what DDO needs :rolleyes:

[edgarallanpoe]

Is there some sort of competition to come up with the most ridiculous suggestion for even more power creep? :confused:

This is absolutely not what DDO needs :rolleyes:

Says the guy who never plays anything but Humans. lol

[changelingamuck]

Says the guy who never plays anything but Humans. lol

That doesn't mean he's not right.

Power creep is a problem. More power creep isn't a solution...

[UurlockYgmeov]

/signed for something like racial completionist / race past lives once we get 13+ races.

[Forzah]

I think we should also introduce racist completionist for those who play only one race...

[Dragavon]

I think we should also introduce racist completionist for those who play only one race...

This may be the funniest reply ever on these forums :D

[edgarallanpoe]

This may be the funniest reply ever on these forums :D

Agreed!!!! lol

[Marshal_Lannes]

No. The game needs to remove past lives not add more. They have a hard cap of 30. Their goal should be to have everyone at L30. There is no longer any reason for this TR/eTR cycle and it should be removed from the game gradually.

[janave]

I want the ability to turn all my past lives into rabbits or squirrels so they can follow me around in both public and private instances, and every..where.

PS: I want to name each one of them separately
PS2: they should all be able to summon their own squirrel, or rabit or batswarm companions

[Fuitentooty]

I think if you get racial completionist, you permanently have the male half-elf face, no matter what race you pick. Also, if you idle, you suddenly start dancing that fruity male helf jig (you all know which dance I'm talking about), complete with a sudden appearance of the disco ball.

Those who look at you while you're doing the jig must make a fortitude save or else have the helf face for 1 hour.


I think we should also introduce racist completionist for those who play only one race...

This should be in the hall of fame for most hilarious replies ever.

[RistoffDervish]

Is there some sort of competition to come up with the most ridiculous suggestion for even more power creep? :confused:

This is absolutely not what DDO needs :rolleyes:

It's not a terrible suggestion. If you wouldn't like it nobody would force you but some people like more long term goals.


That doesn't mean he's not right.

Power creep is a problem. More power creep isn't a solution...

One thing about power creep I never hear anyone say is that it is a necessary part of the game. Without it the game would not progress although it should be implemented as moderately as possible. When level caps go up some amount of power creep is necessary. If you disagree, then stop adding AP to your toon at level 12 like when level 12 was cap. Everything after that is power creep, right?


This may be the funniest reply ever on these forums :D

I do agree with this.


No. The game needs to remove past lives not add more. They have a hard cap of 30. Their goal should be to have everyone at L30. There is no longer any reason for this TR/eTR cycle and it should be removed from the game gradually.

Not everyone's goal is to sit at cap. That may be yours, but it is not mine. Not yet anyway. Some people like myself actually still have fun doing TR / ER and RR if it was an option. My current life is Dwarf - Arti, and I don't use any AP in my dwarf tree - I just did it because I was bored with human every life. Having RR might spice things up a bit and add a little more to what people consider a grind.

[RistoffDervish]

I think if you get racial completionist, you permanently have the male half-elf face

This is terrifying just imaging such a fate. I would throw my computer out the window and go cry in the shower.

[willox2112]

I agree, after that we can also add Hair Style completionist, skin color completionist, etc. Talk about replay-ability!

[Dragavon]

It's not a terrible suggestion. If you wouldn't like it nobody would force you but some people like more long term goals.

It is. At this time anything that adds more power has to be carefully considered. How many times have the devs not had to nerf things after some time because it was overpowered?

[RistoffDervish]

It is. At this time anything that adds more power has to be carefully considered. How many times have the devs not had to nerf things after some time because it was overpowered?

I see your point but the benefits would not have to be overwhelmingly powerful. A little power creep is almost inevitable. A lot too fast is most definitely bad.

[Dandonk]

As long as the benefits are kept fairly small, I'd love this. More lives to grind on my main, yay :)

[Wanesa]

Offtopic:

What about single race completionist (complete all classes without changing race). Or better single race pure class completionist (avoid multiclassing) . Shewind is running that challenge currently - as an halfling

[Chai]

It is. At this time anything that adds more power has to be carefully considered. How many times have the devs not had to nerf things after some time because it was overpowered?

More so because the forumites repeatedly demanded it than because it actually needed a nerf.

This is evidenced by watching the community demand nerfs of the 5th and 6th most powerful things over and over again, and those things get nerfed, while they completely gloss over the 1st through 4th most powerful things which have been in game longer and still haven't been nerfed yet.

[JOTMON]

I agree, after that we can also add Hair Style completionist, skin color completionist, etc. Talk about replay-ability!

Wigs for the forged classes..
start with Fabio and Trump hair pieces...

[Forzah]

More so because the forumites repeatedly demanded it than because it actually needed a nerf.

This is evidenced by watching the community demand nerfs of the 5th and 6th most powerful things over and over again, and those things get nerfed, while they completely gloss over the 1st through 4th most powerful things which have been in game longer and still haven't been nerfed yet.

Then please inform us what number 1 to 4 are, so people can start demanding nerfs for the right things :p

[Silverleafeon]

They renamed it "iconic" and we need about 6 more additions before we fire up iconic completionist.

All Hail Deep Gnome Iconics!
Pretty Please with sugar on top!

[changelingamuck]

One thing about power creep I never hear anyone say is that it is a necessary part of the game. Without it the game would not progress although it should be implemented as moderately as possible. When level caps go up some amount of power creep is necessary. If you disagree, then stop adding AP to your toon at level 12 like when level 12 was cap. Everything after that is power creep, right?

I agree that increases in levels should come with increasing power. I don't believe that being a long-time player/veteran (as shown in TRs, eTRs, completionisms) should provide significant increases in power. I would argue that those things should provide increases in power that I would describe as "very small, but not miniscule" (which is subjective, but what can you do). I think all heroic and epic past lives should provide an increase in power along the lines of the heroic rogue past life (+1 sneak attack damage, and +2 saves vs. traps) and some kind of vanity reward (like a badge/trophy section in our bios that is there for appearance sake). Also, epic past life feats should only apply to epic levels (TRs don't need any more help with heroics and haven't for a looooonnngg time).

The reason that I believe that increases in power should be very different comparing level progression versus number of past lives is this; content is balanced against increases in power from leveling. Content shouldn't be balanced around how many past lives people have because there's too wide of a range of the number of past lives that players have. If players get sizeable power increases from past lives and many have one or two past lives while others have 20 or 30... that introduces way too much variation. It becomes increasingly harder to balance content for players as a whole. And it creates a "separate communities" effect with newer players isolated/disengaged from veterans out of necessity because the differences in their power levels is too extreme. That might be fine in some games (which is arguable actually), but DDO is too niche, meaning it doesn't have a large enough population to sustain entirely separate communities like that. I'd argue that it is hurting new player retention and isn't healthy for the game.

Everybody increases in power together while gaining levels. Past lives, however, are something that some players just have all the time and a lot of people just simply don't have. Increasing power in one is not comparable to the other in its effects on the game's population and the longevity of the game.

I highly doubt anything will be revised about the past lives already out there and wouldn't waste my breathe launching a campaign to change them; but I sure don't think we need to move further in that power creep direction. If you think that further separating veterans from newbies is harmless or even desirable--okay, that's your opinion, but I disagree.

I remember when the warlock past lives were being planned and I suggested that they should give +2 MRR instead of +3 MRR and people were actually (not exaggerating) dumbfounded and outraged that I would suggest such a thing. It's like, lol, really? Seriously? Apparently the powergamers love, love, love that +9 MRR from three past lives, but +6 MRR? That's just a total insult to their efforts, lol. Heaven forbid they play the game more for the joy of playing in and of itself without a big old carrot dangling in front of them to chase all the time for every last thing they do in game.

[FranOhmsford]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.

1. Requires levelling each race in a heroic life using a 'racial TR stone' (RTR) to recognize the Racial past life instead of the class past life.
2. Only achievable starting after the release of Gnomes (due to requiring RTR stone)

Each race will give a past life bonus similar to heroic class bonuses.. (yet to be determined) something like..
~Halfling +.5 Sneak attack die.. stackable to 3x..
~Drow Arcane Fluidity: Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5%/10%/15%
~~or other alternatives similar to bonuses from each of the individual racial tree's

So we have 9 classes with 9 TR lives using a 'Racial TR stone' (RTR) starting with the release of Gnomes to obtain racial completionist that gives 10 AP in the Racial Tree.
Dwarf,Elf ,Halfling, Human, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Warforged, Gnome.
.. 3.8mm XP * 9 lives = 34.2mm XP to achieve RTR before considering 3x for some more Racial past life perks.. seems fair enough..

..another hamster wheel to grind...

Dear Lord NO!

Race is the only thing that remains stable through TRs - The only thing that keeps a character somehow the same character!
Iconics have already watered this down but to have to play each character as every different race is too much {Heck I doubt my Warforged characters will ever have PDK, Shadar-Kai or Morninglord past lives and my Elves will never have BF, SK or PDK past lives!}.

[stoerm]

Dear Lord NO!


Agreed, underscored with emphasis. No additional TR mechanics please. The TR rat race has enough fuel as it is. Make alternative time sinks in addition to TR instead.

[FifthTime]

Demands for yet "Moar" power?

Seriously?

Wow...

Might as well just sell "I WIN!" buttons in the ddo store. Click the button at any time during a quest for instant completion will all optionals. Hurray!

I really hope this thread is just a clever troll and not serious.

[axel15810]

I'm not for any kind of racial completionist. Atleast not until the devs give us a stable, full endgame. We already have support for TR, ETR and ITR. There's so many lives already to grind out, I don't see the need for more support in that area.

[Qhualor]

I'll admit it's an intriguing idea, but it would have been better at the beginning of the game. This would also make a lot more sense grouping Iconics into it. There really is enough past lives going on that we really don't need another one, although, it would be easy to do while doing TR lives.

[IronClan]

That doesn't mean he's not right.

Power creep is a problem. More power creep isn't a solution...

So going from level 1 to level 2 is a problem? because that's "powercreep".

[Kakashi67]

Heaven forbid they play the game more for the joy of playing in and of itself without a big old carrot dangling in front of them to chase all the time for every last thing they do in game.

Heaven forbid they can do both.



Might as well just sell "I WIN!" buttons in the ddo store. Click the button at any time during a quest for instant completion will all optionals. Hurray!


The devs wouldn't want the forums flooded with people complaining about how other people are playing the game.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Not everyone's goal is to sit at cap. That may be yours, but it is not mine. Not yet anyway. Some people like myself actually still have fun doing TR / ER and RR if it was an option. My current life is Dwarf - Arti, and I don't use any AP in my dwarf tree - I just did it because I was bored with human every life. Having RR might spice things up a bit and add a little more to what people consider a grind.

You can play however you want, but you should not be rewarded for it anymore than I should by staying at level 30. Past lives should no longer give benefits after U29.

[cebgamer06]

An alternative could adding cosmetic options. Unlock a 3rd or 4th dance emote or permanently unlock racial dance emotes no matter your race. Also new character appearances like new hair styles, tattoos, etc.

[SableShadow]

An alternative could adding cosmetic options. Unlock a 3rd or 4th dance emote or permanently unlock racial dance emotes no matter your class. Also new cosmetic options character appearances, new hair styles, tattoos, etc.

Y'know, that would actually tempt me.

[RistoffDervish]

You can play however you want, but you should not be rewarded for it anymore than I should by staying at level 30. Past lives should no longer give benefits after U29.

What's the point in grinding out anything if there is no reward? Should we limit greensteel to one item each because you want to sit at cap? I think If people want to grind out 10 pieces of greensteel while others sit at cap they should be rewarded for their efforts. Should I not be rewarded for grinding out past lives while others choose to sit at cap?

I say let there be options for people who want to play a certain way. While I have been on the TR train I would have to say that my small past life bonuses I have accumulated pale in comparison to all the raid loot and epic gear I could have farmed in the same time. Do I think it is unfair that you probably have most of the best epic gear? No, because that is where you chose to play for the type of reward you were going for.

Would it make you envious that I have more past lives when I do reach the point where I want to settle at cap because you didn't grind out the past lives? Why do you want to invalidate all the years I have put into my toon? (yes years, full time job, 2nd job, side business, and I will never buy an ottos box, but I will eventually be completionist and sit at cap - probably to the sound of crickets)

Anyway - what would be your reaction if I said they should no longer give the benefits of the Raid Gear or whatever Epic items you have farmed at cap? That would not make much sense, now would it?

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.

1. Requires levelling each race in a heroic life using a 'racial TR stone' (RTR) to recognize the Racial past life instead of the class past life.
2. Only achievable starting after the release of Gnomes (due to requiring RTR stone)

Each race will give a past life bonus similar to heroic class bonuses.. (yet to be determined) something like..
~Halfling +.5 Sneak attack die.. stackable to 3x..
~Drow Arcane Fluidity: Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5%/10%/15%
~~or other alternatives similar to bonuses from each of the individual racial tree's

So we have 9 classes with 9 TR lives using a 'Racial TR stone' (RTR) starting with the release of Gnomes to obtain racial completionist that gives 10 AP in the Racial Tree.
Dwarf,Elf ,Halfling, Human, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Warforged, Gnome.
.. 3.8mm XP * 9 lives = 34.2mm XP to achieve RTR before considering 3x for some more Racial past life perks.. seems fair enough..

..another hamster wheel to grind...

No.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

So going from level 1 to level 2 is a problem? because that's "powercreep".

no, thats progression

[Uska]

Just say no

[Marshal_Lannes]

Anyway - what would be your reaction if I said they should no longer give the benefits of the Raid Gear or whatever Epic items you have farmed at cap? That would not make much sense, now would it?

They do this all the time, it is called new updates when new gear invalidates old gear. Past lives provide too much of a power discrepancy and should be slowly removed from the game. The goal is to get everyone at L30, no past lives after U29 please.

[Kakashi67]

They do this all the time, it is called new updates when new gear invalidates old gear. Past lives provide too much of a power discrepancy and should be slowly removed from the game. The goal is to get everyone at L30, no past lives after U29 please.

Too bad.

[IronClan]

no, thats progression

Define the difference or admit you're just playing semantics. No arbitrary declarations, no semantics, just tell us all how getting more power from leveling from one to the next is any different than getting more power from TR'ing, proposed race completionist or any other form of character progress...

Character progress is character progress.

I know this forums has a tremendous number of people with very limited understanding of games and game theory but progressing a character is progressing a character you can do it in any way shape or form, it's the same thing, gear improvements = progression, TR past lives = progression, Destinies = progression. It's all progression.

Powercreep is what superstitious people who fear change call progression they are immediately uncomfortable with for various reasons most of which have to do with basic fear of change as mentioned and a basic lack of understanding of how games work at a fundamental level.

[Grailhawk]

Define the difference or admit you're just playing semantics. No arbitrary declarations, no semantics, just tell us all how getting more power from leveling from one to the next is any different than getting more power from TR'ing, proposed race completionist or any other form of character progress...

Character progress is character progress.

I know this forums has a tremendous number of people with very limited understanding of games and game theory but progressing a character is progressing a character you can do it in any way shape or form, it's the same thing, gear improvements = progression, TR past lives = progression, Destinies = progression. It's all progression.

Powercreep is what superstitious people who fear change call progression they are immediately uncomfortable with for various reasons most of which have to do with basic fear of change as mentioned and a basic lack of understanding of how games work at a fundamental level.

LOL this coming from the guy constantly asking for nuance from the devs?

Do you really not understand the difference or are you as you like to say "playing the forums"?

Progression intentionally invalidates previous content, Power creep unintentionally invalidates current content. Gear (if ML <= content level), Past Lives, and Class Changes should not invalidate current content when they do this is power creep.

Level Increase, Level Cap Increase, and Gear (if ML > content level) can invalidate low level content though it should not do so drastically as was the case with U14 and U19 (that was the 28 cap increase right?).

[Pehtis]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.

1. Requires levelling each race in a heroic life using a 'racial TR stone' (RTR) to recognize the Racial past life instead of the class past life.
2. Only achievable starting after the release of Gnomes (due to requiring RTR stone)

Each race will give a past life bonus similar to heroic class bonuses.. (yet to be determined) something like..
~Halfling +.5 Sneak attack die.. stackable to 3x..
~Drow Arcane Fluidity: Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5%/10%/15%
~~or other alternatives similar to bonuses from each of the individual racial tree's

So we have 9 classes with 9 TR lives using a 'Racial TR stone' (RTR) starting with the release of Gnomes to obtain racial completionist that gives 10 AP in the Racial Tree.
Dwarf,Elf ,Halfling, Human, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Warforged, Gnome.
.. 3.8mm XP * 9 lives = 34.2mm XP to achieve RTR before considering 3x for some more Racial past life perks.. seems fair enough..

..another hamster wheel to grind...




And miss out on sex completionist. How can you really know a race if you don't play both male and female. Tsk tsk tsk! That should be the per-requisite for eligibility for race completionist.

Sex completionist should give buff to Spot (cause women spot all flaws especially men's) and Intimidate (cause we men = caveman mentality).

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Define the difference or admit you're just playing semantics. No arbitrary declarations, no semantics, just tell us all how getting more power from leveling from one to the next is any different than getting more power from TR'ing, proposed race completionist or any other form of character progress...

Character progress is character progress.

I know this forums has a tremendous number of people with very limited understanding of games and game theory but progressing a character is progressing a character you can do it in any way shape or form, it's the same thing, gear improvements = progression, TR past lives = progression, Destinies = progression. It's all progression.

Powercreep is what superstitious people who fear change call progression they are immediately uncomfortable with for various reasons most of which have to do with basic fear of change as mentioned and a basic lack of understanding of how games work at a fundamental level.

tring already exists with certain benefits. none of these are associated with race other than iconics. adding power to racial past lives would be power creep.

unnecessarily adding more power to something that already exists is power creep.

[IronClan]

Power creep unintentionally invalidates current content. Gear (if ML <= content level), Past Lives, and Class Changes should not invalidate current content when they do this is power creep.

You mean the current content where a mid 90's DC stunning shield (at least 15 higher than most people can hope to get the Stunning blow feat DC) doesnt do anything? Where tacticals are basically useless wastes of feat slots? You mean the current content where most DC casters who are doing good to hit high 70's or low 80's if they are completely full ******, are being asked to hit high 90's? Where most casters have reported that they are totally irrelevant? Such as DoJ where only Bard freezing ice seems to be allowed to work? Or the current content where SP casting is far behind by all accounts and running DoJ means gulping pots?

We're in danger of creeping past that? Because of 10 Racial AP from 36 million XP?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that premise sounds?

I will give you credit: that's the most intellectual and least emotional definition of power creep I've ever seen offered, it's also completely rationalized and "just made that up because it sounds good".

They are adding +20% DC's with legendary feats with a stack of other math bonuses in one feat for 8 million XP and you're worried about 10 Race AP's? Well lets see a Dwarf can buy: 1 core +10hp, 2 core +1 con, 2aps for Axe +1 tohit and dmg, 3 for +15% tacticals, and +1 more to axes... 10hp 1 con +2 to axes and +3 to tacticals for 36million XP (or whatever it was) is worrisome to you? With this massive power creep that Dwarf can go from a 75 stunning blow DC that is irrelevant in "current content" to a 78 Stunning blow DC that is also irrelevant in current content... We best be watching that "power creep" on the forums we might be able to land a stunning blow more than 5% of the time!!!! Guardians of the powercreep unite! this shall not stand!

I'm not even saying I support racial reincarnations or that the reward for them is right if I was, but the reasoning used to p**p** it are pretty much 100% "I'm bored and feel like p**ping on someones idea" which is one of the forum versions favorite mini-games admittedly. I'm not exactly a huge proponent of this idea but I don't see how it's a lot different from Iconic TR's. I will take a sprint boost on classes than can't get it any other way over the proposed racial reincarnation reward any day. And that only needs 3 PDK lives.

[IronClan]

none of these are associated with race other than iconics.

None of them except the ones that do LOL...

There's 3 kinds of current reincarnation 1/3rd of them have to do with race...

66% of the time reincarnation is not associated with race 100% of the time? LOL

[Darkmits]

Define the difference or admit you're just playing semantics.

Powercreep is what superstitious people who fear change call progression they are immediately uncomfortable with for various reasons most of which have to do with basic fear of change as mentioned and a basic lack of understanding of how games work at a fundamental level.Maybe each of us has different ideas on what is what. Power creep, in my own view, is player power that is retroactively added after the game has been designed that gives players the opportunity to change the way the approach content from strategic/tactical thinking to brute-forcing, with the latter also ending up being more profitable than the former. What I mean:

Let's suppose devs add more passive defenses in various builds. If these builds still require to play the same way by actively managing their healthpool, use consumables, take cover, avoid traps etc but allowing you to make one-two-three more mistakes before dying, then it's a helping hand that serves to reduce frustration after content has been done multiple times. If however these builds, due to the this increase in defense, can ignore traps and take the damage, run into multiple mobs just so that they aoe-cleave them etc, then that's power creep. Also, power creep is different from content nerf. If devs didn't add defenses in the above example but instead lowered all enemy damage etc, then that's content nerf.

Power creep has quite a few effects: Since the content can be bruteforced, players feel like they are always on a treadmill instead of getting of it and doing other side-stuff. Essentially power creep makes gameplay more monotonous, and yes I acknowledge that a significant part of the playerbase, maybe even the majority, prefers mindless leftclick soloing over using multiple abilities and trying to use terrain in your advantage etc. It also means that devs need to seriously up the absolute difficulty of newer content, so as to challenge players, which will mean that some mechanics will be useless (like your example with DC Stunning)

[Dragavon]

Powercreep is what superstitious people who fear change call progression they are immediately uncomfortable with for various reasons most of which have to do with basic fear of change as mentioned and a basic lack of understanding of how games work at a fundamental level.

What a load of BS :mad:

[stoerm]

You can play however you want, but you should not be rewarded for it anymore than I should by staying at level 30. Past lives should no longer give benefits after U29.

Let's erase years' worth of progression from almost everyone, says the guy with a 2 month old join date. I get that it seems a big discrepancy and a huge hill to climb, but past lives aren't that big compared to build points, epic destinies, gear and metagaming knowledge. TRing is the current DDO endgame, for better or worse. I'd like more stuff at cap, too, but it's not tenable to touch existing PL benefits.

[stoerm]

What a load of BS :mad:

Huge load, and smells like bait. Perhaps IronClan could put his money where his mouth is and edit the relevant Wikipedia entry to set the record straight for the rest of the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_creep

Hint: power creep happens when rules change and content vs player balance shifts in favour of the player. Achieving currently available power is progression.

Whether it's a problem in certain parts of DDO may be a subject of debate. By going ad hominem supernova or playing semantics games won't win.

P.P.S. It's called power creep and not power landslide for a reason. You can cherry pick as many individual examples of innocuous additions but it doesn't invalidate the overall effect. A multiplier here, a percentage there, just a couple more points ... it piles up almost unnoticeably, but *over time* it has game changing effects. You no longer need a healer, CC becomes optional, incoming elemental damage is no longer a threat ... Things like heroic elite being a solo steamroll are a fact not superstition.

[morkahn82]

No thanks.

This game does not need more "achievements" available from store via ottos and hearts. Otherwise I'd say meh.

[Jango-EX]

Oooo, I think that it is a nice idea! The 10 extra AP to racial trees is very clever and in the right spot between being useful and not too powerful! :)

As long as the past life passive feats are not too powerful, I'm up for it! They could make it iconic-like... an extra stance for each race, stacking three times, dunno! :D

Power creep is kinda bad in DDO because the past lives are in effect since lvl 1 and that makes us more and more powerful even in quests were we shouldn't be and when devs design with that in mind people who are not in the TR train get their asses handed to them... but this idea could be made to work and I would love it!

[Robai]

First things first:
- add more BtC bank space (like +1000 p2w slots, and +100 f2p slots unlockable via favor or whatever, also searchable by name/lvl/slots), so that there would be a point to farm Heavy/Medium/Light/Robes/Docent versions, also various Melee/Ranged/Monk/Caster weapons, also for various levels.

Then we can talk about rewards for Single/All racial completionists.

The rewards should be very small, for example:
Single Class (doesn't matter which) on every Race completionist: +1 AP
Single Race (doesn't matter which) on every Class completionist: no reward, just a companion maybe (or a cosmetics), because this option gives Class completionist too
All Races + all Classes completionist (I mean every combination of Race and Class): +1 AP (so the total bonus is +2 AP)
Races here include Iconics too.

[Grailhawk]

You mean the current content where a mid 90's DC stunning shield (at least 15 higher than most people can hope to get the Stunning blow feat DC) doesnt do anything? Where tacticals are basically useless wastes of feat slots? You mean the current content where most DC casters who are doing good to hit high 70's or low 80's if they are completely full ******, are being asked to hit high 90's? Where most casters have reported that they are totally irrelevant? Such as DoJ where only Bard freezing ice seems to be allowed to work? Or the current content where SP casting is far behind by all accounts and running DoJ means gulping pots?

I never said the game was balanced, Racial AP has other uses then boosting the power of under performing classes/play styles.




I will give you credit: that's the most intellectual and least emotional definition of power creep I've ever seen offered, it's also completely rationalized and "just made that up because it sounds good".

I've said that exact same thing before when I was justifying the invalidation of green steal items to a guildy when discussing U14's level cap increase. It was not just made up that has and will always be the definition of power creep in my mind related to a MMO, PnP is slightly different.

[Grailhawk]

Not sure if this has been said but Racial AP should not be "free" extra AP of any kind should cost you something Gear Slot, Feat Choice, ED Points etc.

I know some people will say that x XP is not "free" but it is its in the sense that once you have it you have the added power you didn't traded other power for those AP you just traded time. AP are by there nature nothing but power increase getting more of them with out making some kind of a trade would be bad design in my mind.

[Kylstrem]

The only acceptable racial completionist is to run every class to 20 through every race one time.

So, fighter must be done with all races, then barbarian through all races, and so on.

That's the only true completionist route for races.

[Blastyswa]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.

1. Requires levelling each race in a heroic life using a 'racial TR stone' (RTR) to recognize the Racial past life instead of the class past life.
2. Only achievable starting after the release of Gnomes (due to requiring RTR stone)

Each race will give a past life bonus similar to heroic class bonuses.. (yet to be determined) something like..
~Halfling +.5 Sneak attack die.. stackable to 3x..
~Drow Arcane Fluidity: Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5%/10%/15%
~~or other alternatives similar to bonuses from each of the individual racial tree's

So we have 9 classes with 9 TR lives using a 'Racial TR stone' (RTR) starting with the release of Gnomes to obtain racial completionist that gives 10 AP in the Racial Tree.
Dwarf,Elf ,Halfling, Human, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Warforged, Gnome.
.. 3.8mm XP * 9 lives = 34.2mm XP to achieve RTR before considering 3x for some more Racial past life perks.. seems fair enough..

..another hamster wheel to grind...

Id be fine with something like this. There has been at least one thread about it in the race section as well from a long time ago also, was a few past life recommendations in there. I dont think power creep would be a big issue, since for most races 10 racial AP translates to a very minor defense or offense bonus (+2 damage with falchions, the sky is falling). I would like to see arcane spell failure reduction added in more (I have played my share of eldritch knight splashed heavy armor skyvault shield drow wizards). If i was to be in charge of designing racial past lives, they would be dragonmark-race themed insteas of just race themed though. For example, +1 sneak damage +2 positive spellpower halfling, +1 second action boost duration +1 all skills human (they have too many dragonmarks), -3/6/10% asf +1/2/3 throwing weapon damage drow (no dragonmarks at all, but common shuriken choice).

I also think having racial past lives be like iconics would be interesting. Each race would come with a stance, of moderately weak power (maybe +30 positive spellpower halfling, +9% hp swarf for 3x stacks would be a good baseline) and instead of having racial completionist, have +1 racial ap be part of each past life. Semi-casual players could do 1-3 racial past lives for a stance and 1-2 cores, the hardcore grindy type could do 27 past lives and still have one stance on, but also have basically the entire racial tree unlocked.

Even if something like this isnt implemented, I still think something should be introduced to encourage play of gnomes, otherwise they will largely be ignored. I personally am planning to play one barbarian gnome if they're small enough for it to be awesome, and then go back to my current setup.

[MaeveTuohy]

Just say no

No.

[gaffneyks]

No. The game needs to remove past lives not add more. They have a hard cap of 30. Their goal should be to have everyone at L30. There is no longer any reason for this TR/eTR cycle and it should be removed from the game gradually.

There are a number of players who do not like EPICS and do not play Epics, they continue to play heroics and tr in heroics. With the current populations, i think this game needs all the players they can get.

[MaeveTuohy]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.



..another hamster wheel to grind...


"Jotmon - Let's not forget why we play these games - to have fun - ~ "

Grinding hamster wheels is fun?


Given that many, many players feel the game is too easy, here are my ideas for racial completionist.

1. Racial Completionist - You have discovered how to make the most of each race in the game. You are a better player now.
Grants: You can no longer use the Tier 5 abilities of any racial enhancement tree.

2. Racial Manipulator - Really? Twice through every race? There's no holding you back is there. Try this then ...
Grants: All racial trees now cost double AP.

3. Race Abuser - Hard core. Clearly the game holds little challenge for you now, so we'll set you some.
Grants: Racial benefits to abilities now longer apply. Racial detriments to abilities still apply.

[Dendrix]

When achieveing maximum level you can Racially Reincarnate.
You go back to level 1 and must play a different race you get 1 Racial Past Life.
Maximum number of Racial Past Lives is the number of different races in DDO.


In your new life(s)
As you level, you gain additional Enhancement point that can only be spent on racial enhancements
The number of additional racial enhancement points is the lower of your level or the number of racial past lives you have.

Racial Completionist Reward: Increase the power of the completionist feat to 3 from 2.

[scipiojedi]

There are a number of players who do not like EPICS and do not play Epics, they continue to play heroics and tr in heroics.

Oh you found me!

[Gotloot]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.


I like this idea save the part about additional past life feats. Just adding in free action points to only be used in the racial enhancement tree would be enough. Something like 3 racial AP per racial past life stacking up to 3 times and 10 additional racial AP upon reaching racial completionist.

Most top level builds do not spend any points in the racial tree and frankly it would be nice to see people using those enhancements. Perhaps you could add some sort of cosmetic bonus as well.


Also, I love the idea of adding the Gnome race, I just hope it is not iconic.

[JOTMON]

Racial completionist idea.
I would like to see a Racial Completionist give 10 Racial AP along with racial past life bonuses similar to TR class lives.

1. Requires levelling each race in a heroic life using a 'racial TR stone' (RTR) to recognize the Racial past life instead of the class past life.
2. Only achievable starting after the release of Gnomes (due to requiring RTR stone)

Each race will give a past life bonus similar to heroic class bonuses.. (yet to be determined) something like..
~Halfling +.5 Sneak attack die.. stackable to 3x..
~Drow Arcane Fluidity: Your arcane spell failure chance while wearing armor is decreased by 5%/10%/15%
~~or other alternatives similar to bonuses from each of the individual racial tree's

So we have 9 classes with 9 TR lives using a 'Racial TR stone' (RTR) starting with the release of Gnomes to obtain racial completionist that gives 10 AP in the Racial Tree.
Dwarf,Elf ,Halfling, Human, Drow, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Warforged, Gnome.
.. 3.8mm XP * 9 lives = 34.2mm XP to achieve RTR before considering 3x for some more Racial past life perks.. seems fair enough..

..another hamster wheel to grind...

Wish granted :)

[Silverleafeon]

Wish granted :)

+1 Well done indeed!

[MaeveTuohy]

Sad, but true.

[Cantor]

Wish granted :)

Though they went weaksauce with the past lives compared to your proposal. +1 to some random skill? bleh

[RobbinB]

It was a bad suggestion and the implementation makes me even sadder.

They could have compromised and just put a single past life for each race granting the 1 racial ap. The 3 x each race with back-end power loading is ridiculous and makes me want to stab myself in the eye.