With the upcoming Cannith Crafting update pass

[UurlockYgmeov]

With the upcoming Cannith Crafting update pass pending in U29 (The Rise of the Level)

how about adding the Twelve Vendor as the top (or next to the top) favor vendor? Currently this vendor is in the test dojo on Lamannia and sells soul gems. Have him also sell cannith crafting blank items? and special ingredients and make the items sold be bound to account.

[Saekee]

With the upcoming Cannith Crafting update pass pending in U29 (The Rise of the Level)

how about adding the Twelve Vendor as the top (or next to the top) favor vendor? Currently this vendor is in the test dojo on Lamannia and sells soul stones. Have him also sell cannith crafting blank items? and special ingredients and make the items sold be bound to account.
He will sell soul stones? That is handy
It would be interesting if various favor ranks with different factions gave out relevant crafting materials. I suppose soul stones makes some sense with the Twelve, anyone have thoughts about other rare ingredients with other favor groups?

[EllisDee37]

Soul gems, not stones.

Is there any dev statement about a cannith crafting update in U29? I'm skeptical they would be able to cram it in: Level cap raise, new quests, new raid, new greensteel crafting, lootgen revamp; that's a lot of stuff already.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Soul gems, not stones.

Is there any dev statement about a cannith crafting update in U29? I'm skeptical they would be able to cram it in: Level cap raise, new quests, new raid, new greensteel crafting, lootgen revamp; that's a lot of stuff already.

oops - OP corrected.

Yes, numerous statements saying that currently it is in for U29 as is the random loot update.

[EllisDee37]

Yes, numerous statements saying that currently it is in for U29 as is the random loot update.*swoon*

Also: Good. The longer it takes to get U29 live the more chance I have of getting the new planner finished in time.

[SiliconScout]

*swoon*

Also: Good. The longer it takes to get U29 live the more chance I have of getting the new planner finished in time.

I'm actually pretty worried about it. Last couple of times they have either knowingly rolled out an incomplete and broken system OR made drastic changes that invalidated a substantial number of items both crafted and rangen.

Face it post MOTU their track record is utterly disastrous when it comes to modifying loot systems and tables. Right now Cannith Crafting is marginally to moderately useful depending on if you leveled your crafter before they nuked it from orbit. If the actual crafting followed suit it would quickly drop to a next to useless system.

I know the expectation is that it should get better but who is to say until it goes live. on the Cannith front so long as they ONLY add to the system and don't change or delete anything it would be fairly hard to make it worse. On the loot front ... well I have been well trained by now not to get my hopes up... here's hoping I am surprised.

[dunklezhan]

oops - OP corrected.

Yes, numerous statements saying that currently it is in for U29 as is the random loot update.

I have not seen anything saying anything other than 'we want to'. It is not, to my knowledge, confirmed.

[gnarledmaw]

With the upcoming Cannith Crafting update pass pending in U29....

Has anything about the pass been shared with players yet? My search thus far has only found player ramblings and wishes, anyone know which thread has, if there is one, any commentary by a dev?

[Dragavon]

I have not seen anything saying anything other than 'we want to'. It is not, to my knowledge, confirmed.

Same. What I have seen is that updating crafting is something they want to do. But I have never seen anything about it beeing in update 29, or any other firm plans. I would like to see what OP is basing that on.

[nibel]

Face it post MOTU their track record is utterly disastrous when it comes to modifying loot systems and tables.

It didn't helped that they fired/moved FoS from loot duty before he could finish his planned updates, and never continued the loot system revamp after that.

[slarden]

I haven't seen this - but it's great news.

I assume per usual it will be a do-over. Our existing levels won't count towards the new system.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I haven't seen this - but it's great news.

I assume per usual it will be a do-over. Our existing levels won't count towards the new system.

the Dev's say otherwise. only time will tell.

[Dragavon]

the Dev's say otherwise. only time will tell.

But where is your confirmation that it will be in update 29?

[LiquidZombie]

Lots of comments about "the devs saying" things but not a single link to a public post by a dev actually saying anything relevant.

Are the devs "saying" these things in public, or are they just communicating it to the OP via private revelations and appearances in dreams?

[IronClan]

the Dev's say otherwise. only time will tell.

Sorry I also have not seen a single thing saying Cannith crafting is being touched in this update, and I read the Dev tracker like everyone else. Random loot yes.

Also nothing on Lam that I've seen and this would be commented on by now.

[Riddle_of_Steel]

It didn't helped that they fired/moved FoS from loot duty before he could finish his planned updates, and never continued the loot system revamp after that.

^THIS.

That being said though, my understanding is that he told them in was incomplete and not ready and the powers that be rolled it out anyway. I don't know if FoS can own the blame because he didn't finish what he started but the company and it's culture sure can. While I would hope that they have learned from that horrible mistake I guess you could say that I am also apprehensive as they really didn't learn from / bother correcting it at all until nearly EVERY SINGLE post on the forum and even the titles contained the word Ghostbane .. hell ghostbane / ghostbaned is basically slang around here for something that is all messed up or broken for no good reason and that really does say it all.

At any rate I hope that it comes in .. when it's tested and ready and not a moment before.

[Riddle_of_Steel]

the Dev's say otherwise. only time will tell.

Can you throw me a link to that?

[Jatner]

I really hope they streamline the collectables as part of this pass. there are simply far too many ingredients and collectables in the game at the moment.

I would suggest retaining the various essences and having a single unit collectable in each adventure pack, with each item crafted having different recipes allowing the unique item from any one of 3 adventure packs to be used. Obviously the higher the ML of the crafted item, the higher the level of pack needed for that ingredient.

These adventure pack ingredients would be fairly rare but could be traded for from a more coming drop - for instance most level quests would drop Prayer Beads but with a chance of also dropping ingredient x. 250 prayer beads can be traded in to provide the same ingredient x

[Riddle_of_Steel]

I don't expect that will ever happen. First it's not sexy work cleaning up old systems that have been there a while, in fact it can sometimes be dangerous / disruptive to the system.

Second how will they sell even more shared ingredient bank space unless they add ever more ingredients.

It has been suggested many many times to streamline the crafting systems or even re-use some of the ingredients but it just won't happen.

There is no way they want you having a ready made slack or 10 of crafting ingredients from years of playing sitting in the bank ready to be used on SexyNewCraftingSystem32 the day it rolls out.

Don't get me wrong it's a good idea, it's just not one that Turbine seems to have any appetite for.

[slarden]

There is no way they want you having a ready made slack or 10 of crafting ingredients from years of playing sitting in the bank ready to be used on SexyNewCraftingSystem32 the day it rolls out.



Yep, and they have their stand-by excuse - "the dupers made me do it".

[Riddle_of_Steel]

Well that does have some merit but it doesn't explain how they kept adding more and more ingredients with almost every update before duping became rampant / easy.

I honestly believe it's because it looks better on the resume or having a better shot at a promotion when you built something new rather than cleaned up someone else's mess.

[NoWorries]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

[Trillea]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

Glad to hear that the loot is being over-
hauled. I hope that when we have seen it
our collective jaws will hit the floor. My
serious concern is with the current crafting levels
that we have on our characters. Many
builds use Cannith crafted loot to get through the
abysmally slow levels and the gear for trapping.
Now I hope that our levels that we currently have
earned will carry over to the new system. I have
2 characters that I have started leveling
in Cannith crafting and would like to know my work is
safe.
Can we get some kind of assurance that
our crafting levels will not go anywhere and that
my hard work will not go unrewarded?
I know that it's probably early to tell any info but
no-one wants their hard work to go to waste.
Good luck on your work and thank you!

[slarden]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

Sounds like a great plan!

[dunklezhan]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

Awesome news, thanks (I note and respect what you're saying around timing and that you are not promising anything) - now with the greatest of respect stop reading this immediately and get back to your dev cave to make it so. If it happens before U30, I will find a way to send cookies in case the Dark Lord is still on his anti-sugar crusade.

[Snarglefrump]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

so.... when will the randomized loot overall launch? In U29, or a patch after U29 but before U30?

[UurlockYgmeov]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

How to say NoWorries name in Swedish: "Ingen ko på isen".

Am glad to hear this, and how you are pushing it back until a U29 patch. Hopefully the systems are tied together to make it easy and simple to just update random loot to also update cannith crafting.

I know it is an unreasonable request, but could you post an outline of thoughts / plans soonest?

[UurlockYgmeov]

Can you throw me a link to that?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467960-With-the-upcoming-Cannith-Crafting-update-pass?p=5728526&viewfull=1#post5728526

:cool:

and no - the Dev's didn't appear in my dreams... thankfully - that would be nightmarish! ;p

This has been hinted at and stated that it was in 'the plans' on my livestreams and dev events and so on. Has been a discussion on podcasts etc. Has always been "cannith crafting pass is on our list, but will be the first thing pushed if we don't have the time".

[eris2323]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.


If you invalidate the hours, days, and weeks I spent using your old time-wasting system... I will never touch it.

Probably the pure anger involved will make me take another extended break (and of course, to cancel my VIP while I do it)

[EllisDee37]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.Awesome!

[Propane]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

Time well spent - thanks for the update - looking forward to it (and making vamp shards again)!

[dunklezhan]

If you invalidate the hours, days, and weeks I spent using your old time-wasting system... I will never touch it.

Probably the pure anger involved will make me take another extended break (and of course, to cancel my VIP while I do it)

You might want to elaborate on what you mean by 'invalidate'.

In my case: I'm Level 100+ in all three schools (I think its up near 150, I've barely been to look at it with an eye to levelling since it became clear they'd abandoned the system, I just make lowbie gear for folk from time to time now which doesn't grant any XP). I've 'completed' maybe 60/70% of the levels available. So long as in the new system I'm roughly in that tier, I'll be reasonably happy in terms of prior work. If I'm reset to zero... yeah I won't be very happy, especially as they've given us no reason to think this system won't be immediately abandoned after it's updated either.

Honestly though, I don't think a full reset is on the cards. Working on that assumption (because a full reset just seems like madness to me) I'm far more interested in things like:

- Old suffixes and prefixes - we keeping any of them?
- Is the system still going to be greaters/lessers/dragonshards/collectibles?
- Will it align with any of the other crafting systems at all (e.g. same mechanics or some ingredient cross over)?
- How sustainable is it being designed to be? How easy is it for devs to add and balance new recipes over time?
- Similar restrictions/mechanics as now for bound vs unbound crafting?
- Will it be able to make cosmetic effects?

That's not an exhaustive list, but things like that.

[CeltEireson]

You might want to elaborate on what you mean by 'invalidate'.

In my case: I'm Level 100+ in all three schools (I think its up near 150, I've barely been to look at it with an eye to levelling since it became clear they'd abandoned the system, I just make lowbie gear for folk from time to time now which doesn't grant any XP). I've 'completed' maybe 60/70% of the levels available. So long as in the new system I'm roughly in that tier, I'll be reasonably happy in terms of prior work. If I'm reset to zero... yeah I won't be very happy, especially as they've given us no reason to think this system won't be immediately abandoned after it's updated either.

Honestly though, I don't think a full reset is on the cards. Working on that assumption (because a full reset just seems like madness to me) I'm far more interested in things like:

- Old suffixes and prefixes - we keeping any of them?
- Is the system still going to be greaters/lessers/dragonshards/collectibles?
- Will it align with any of the other crafting systems at all (e.g. same mechanics or some ingredient cross over)?
- How sustainable is it being designed to be? How easy is it for devs to add and balance new recipes over time?
- Similar restrictions/mechanics as now for bound vs unbound crafting?
- Will it be able to make cosmetic effects?

That's not an exhaustive list, but things like that.

My crafter got to about 150 in all of them, and yup I'll be more than a little.miffed if they introduce a system that means I'm back to square one. Also hope they don't render old ingredients useless as well - I've tens of thousands of all of them- the lost platinum from breaking up loot was significant! Not mention real money spent on bags, chance boosters etc.

[Stoner81]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

Personally I would go even further and ask it to be pushed back until next year and U31 in order for you guys to have the proper amount of time to make sure everything is as it should be, I love Cannith Crafting and if you guys break it you will reduce a grown man to crying like a baby :(

Stoner81.

[Enerdhil]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

In my personal opinion most surprising news of the year. I'm looking forward to see it, but i'm also really, really worried. :P


My crafter got to about 150 in all of them, and yup I'll be more than a little.miffed if they introduce a system that means I'm back to square one. Also hope they don't render old ingredients useless as well - I've tens of thousands of all of them- the lost platinum from breaking up loot was significant! Not mention real money spent on bags, chance boosters etc.

My main toon got 150 in all of them too, and honestly i never created anything for myself, just maxed it for fu..., well, definitely not for fun, just too see it maxed. It won't be funny too loose a lot of work and crafting xp potions, but on the other hand... Isn't it better to have something useful than 150 lvls in all craft schools and find crafting as a waste of time (but i also understand that some ppl still can find c craft useful and it'll be more painful for them)? I'm sure Turbine knows deleting whole progress folks have made will make half of community angry and they'll work it out somehow, maybe by adding more lvls to current ones (like max craft lvl 300 and new bonuses for higher craft lvls) or by leaving our current progress and changing shardsat lvl+adding new one on higher craft lvls. If we speak about ingredients - will be cool to keep "old" ones and still be able to do something with them, but if we'll look on nowadays fighting with duplication policy i'm expecting "new" ones and throwing out "old" ones.


Personally I would go even further and ask it to be pushed back until next year and U31 in order for you guys to have the proper amount of time to make sure everything is as it should be, I love Cannith Crafting and if you guys break it you will reduce a grown man to crying like a baby :(

Stoner81.

I'm sure it'll be the same route as always: releasing, and few days of hotfixing. :P But updated C craft can bring a lot of changes into system, so finding all problems before releasing can be impossible, i think bugs&hotfixes are something we won't be able to avoid. :P

[NoWorries]

Snip
Clever, but you lost out on points for not disguising it in a poem.


Awesome news, thanks (I note and respect what you're saying around timing and that you are not promising anything) - now with the greatest of respect stop reading this immediately and get back to your dev cave to make it so. If it happens before U30, I will find a way to send cookies in case the Dark Lord is still on his anti-sugar crusade.

Talk about incentive!


so.... when will the randomized loot overall launch? In U29, or a patch after U29 but before U30?

It is planned to be in U29, and is currently being worked on.


How to say NoWorries name in Swedish: "Ingen ko på isen".

I know it is a unreasonable request, but could you post an outline of thoughts / plans soonest?

That is longer than I thought it would be, but then again I don't know any Swedish. Correction I now know very little Swedish.

I am sure we will get some information out on the plans for Cannith once we are in a good place to do so.

[UurlockYgmeov]

That is longer than I thought it would be, but then again I don't know any Swedish. Correction I now know very little Swedish.

I am sure we will get some information out on the plans for Cannith once we are in a good place to do so.

In your defense - that is the phrase that connotes 'NoWorries' in Swedish. :P "There are no cows on the ice" :cool: :eek: :)

Awesome!

One suggestion: and it is a big request: add a decon interface that is like the store's interface: so you can decon MANY items at once - just instead of "sell" or "sell all" make the buttons (or add options) that allow for decon for xxx essences; decon for plat; decon for xp (any or specific school)...

that way can do an entire backpack in under a minute - with FAR less lag and aggravation. :P

just a suggestion.:rolleyes::cool:

[Stonemerge]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

What do you mean with "Update" ? Another nerf ? 150/148/150 now - needed years ... don't mismanage here. U29 is horrific enough with its extended ETR grind. Epic Crafting would be great, but as good as i know you guys, i'm afraid that my twink gear will not work anymore.

[IronClan]

It is planned to be in U29, and is currently being worked on.


So any hints? Will it be an extension of currently supported affixes, or adding new stuff you guys are doing to random loot? or will it be a serious re-do with loss of some old stuff that is not part of the random post ghostbane loot gen?

Don't underestimate how much people will dislike losing currently possible options will cause... Unless you guys want a "craftingbane" on your hands.

[mikarddo]

How to say NoWorries name in Swedish: "Ingen ko på isen".


I know that saying in Danish (I am Danish). I didnt know it was Swedish as well. Literally it means "no cow on the ice".

Anyway, as for the planned update. Please dont raise the crafting caps - just adjust the recipees to be worthwhile. The work involved in getting to 150 is already plenty so keep that in mind, please.

[Ghlitch]

If they're going to overhaul the cannith system, why not give it a complete overhaul?

How about making it so instead of crafting shards from essences gained from deconstructing weapons, you cut out the middle step of collecting essences? Why not make it so that you can take a +5 rapier of icy burst, stick it in the deconstruction machine, and based on your crafting skill you're able to pull that icy burst off the rapier intact as a shard. The rest of the weapon is destroyed. Or instead of the icy burst shard, you could strip the +5 shard off the weapon and destroy the rest instead. Each item you put in there can give you one shard of whatever is already on the item, including the item's shard of potential. Disjuncting works the same way as it already does.

So if you wanted to make a +5 holy metalline longsword, you'd need 5 different other items:

one for the +5 shard
one for the metalline shard
one for the holy shard
one for the potential
and one as a base disjuncted longsword


Then you'd see people actually holding on to loot with useful prefixes or suffixes to turn into crafting shards, instead of automatically tossing it all in the shops between quests. And the low level weapons you find while leveling up would be used to raise your crafting levels, so it's a system that would work well into the epics when you find those rare prefixes and suffixes.

[Dragavon]

If they're going to overhaul the cannith system, why not give it a complete overhaul?

I do not see how this would improve crafting in any way?

[dunklezhan]

Talk about incentive!


I mean it. I will find a way.

Of course, if its awful I will still find a way but I'll make sure the cookie store send stale ones, or custard and toast flavoured ones or something. But nevertheless, cookies will happen.

[dunklezhan]

Fernando's pitch.

What you describe is pretty much how the Exec Producer at the time envisaged it working - or at least, its how he initially explained it. They eventually decided not to go that way, but whether difficulty, time, balance or all three was the issue I don't know.

[IronClan]

What you describe is pretty much how the Exec Producer at the time envisaged it working - or at least, its how he initially explained it. They eventually decided not to go that way, but whether difficulty, time, balance or all three was the issue I don't know.

they wanted you to deconstruct lots of random junk. Fundamentally you did the same thing but instead of deconstructing one holy burst and turning around and making a holy burst you deconstruct a whole lot of divine affixes and turn a whole lot of them into one holy burst.

They wanted a time sink, 1 holy burst = 1 holy burst crafted would not have done that.

[dunklezhan]

they wanted you to deconstruct lots of random junk. Fundamentally you did the same thing but instead of deconstructing one holy burst and turning around and making a holy burst you deconstruct a whole lot of divine affixes and turn a whole lot of them into one holy burst.

They wanted a time sink, 1 holy burst = 1 holy burst crafted would not have done that.

Sounds about right, I mean this IS an MMO. Time is currency and all that. Don't necessarily agree that's required in this case though - given the sacrifice in plat/shards for things you might have otherwise auctioned I hope this time around the 'timesink' aspect does allow at the very least for batch crafting from the outset, and not at the automated-but-one-by-one glacial pace it currently has to go at.

[Chai]

they wanted you to deconstruct lots of random junk. Fundamentally you did the same thing but instead of deconstructing one holy burst and turning around and making a holy burst you deconstruct a whole lot of divine affixes and turn a whole lot of them into one holy burst.

They wanted a time sink, 1 holy burst = 1 holy burst crafted would not have done that.

The major issue I saw with that is the "time sync" thing didn't pan out because within a week of the system being released people had already socked their way to max crafting level.

Even if most other parts of NW just are just plain undesired, the one good thing about that game was its crafting system, where you hire on NPCs to do the work and each job initiated sets up a time of completion. some of the harder stuff to make took hours, but you could set those up and then go play your character or log off for that time, come back later and the item was completed and crafting xp gained. This is a true time sink system, which didn't require people to self inflict carpal tunnel syndrome just to get a high crafting level on a character. .

[dunklezhan]

The major issue I saw with that is the "time sync" thing didn't pan out because within a week of the system being released people had already socked their way to max crafting level.

Even if most other parts of NW just are just plain undesired, the one good thing about that game was its crafting system, where you hire on NPCs to do the work and each job initiated sets up a time of completion. some of the harder stuff to make took hours, but you could set those up and then go play your character or log off for that time, come back later and the item was completed and crafting xp gained. This is a true time sink system, which didn't require people to self inflict carpal tunnel syndrome just to get a high crafting level on a character. .

Similarly Eve's skills system.

I wouldn't object to that kind of approach in some form here (especially if we could access it via the web or character select screen, but that is a pipe dream I know), but it is kinda nice to be able to just pop in to the crafting hall/crafting interface and bash something together instantly for a newbie or whoever. Wouldn't want to lose that capability.

[EllisDee37]

Figured I'd bring my previously posted ideas for cannith crafting into this thread. The main two:

"Quick" fix:

If time is limited, I would like to see the following shards added:


+6, +7, and +8 enhancement bonus
+7, +8, +9 and +10 stats
+15, +17 (and possibly +19 or 20) skills
Spellcraft shards
Deadly I through IX
Accuracy I through IX
Speed I through IX
PRR/MRR (? through ?)
Fortification 25% to 150%
Dodge 1% to 9%
Doublestrike/Doubleshot (?% to ?%)
Radiance Lore I to VI?
The new banes (natural, etc...)

...most of these designed to maintain the concept of crafting being just behind maxed out lootgen. I don't agree with that philosophy, but that was the original philosophy of the crafting system (eg: skills only going to +13) so without a conceptual overhaul, it makes sense to maintain the existing concept.

One of the problems is that on a fundamental level, cannith crafting doesn't properly support minimum levels. A proper overhaul would involve something along the lines of:


No "maximum" level (not capped at 20)
Individual shard enchantment level (like on live)
Individual shard Absolute Minimum Level (like lootgen armors and shields have)
Remove shards of potential completely
Remove lesser essences completely


Adding AML to shards is the key. That way you could allow crafting the equivalent of lootgen caster sticks by setting the AML for spellpower shards properly and setting their enchantment level to zero. So, for example, lootgen ML8 caster sticks currently give +54 spell power on live. They also give enhancement bonus (+2?) and lore (III or IV?). You can't craft anything remotely close to that on live for an ML8 item. If, instead, +54 spell power shards had zero enchantment level but AML8, now we're just about perfect:

+2: +2 enhancement bonus
+3: lore III
+0: spell power +54 (AML8)
----
+5 enchantment level = (5-1) * 2 = ML8

Apply masterful = still ML8 because the spell power is AML8. But with masterful you could kick up the enhancement bonus or lore by one and still end up at ML8.


AML for shards would also allow fixing the ridiculous shards, like True Seeing and Superior Stability. The enchantment levels on those shards are just silly. Set them to something reasonable (maybe +3 or +4) and give them appropriate AMLs. (AML12, maybe.)

Complete overhaul:

Here's how I'd overhaul Cannith Crafting if I were put in charge:


Get us out of the dingy (and laggy!) hall and into quests:
- Add substantial crafting xp rewards to sagas, similar to the xp and renown ones already there
- Add "Otto's box of crafting" to store, similar to other otto's boxes, including a stone of (lots of) crafting xp

Streamline and simplify:
- Lesser essences disappear from game entirely, all recipes rounded off to nearest greater
- Shards of potential go away (their only purpose is to use up excess lessers)
- Craftable named items (rune arms, cannith challenge gear) simply has max enchantment level instead of potential. Same thing, different name.

Reflect lootgen rules:
- Shards get a new AML setting that allows reflecting lootgen rules more precisely
- Every effect in the lootgen table available for crafting, using same ML/AML rules as if it were lootgen
- Any shard we have now that isn't available on lootgen goes away (so long alacrity, hello speed)
- Any future lootgen changes also changed in cannith crafting (ideally both systems just point to the same database)
- Standard (not flexible) crafted effects go in all (and only) the same slots as it appears on lootgen. eg: False Life boots, etc...
- Crafting level required reflects lootgen ML (eg: Deathblock I becomes a very low level recipe)

New features to meet all your crafting needs:
- Add ability to craft all base items, including any visual variations. (Armor/hat/shield/weapon appearances, same choices as lootgen)
- Add the ability to craft metal types onto items, allowing any combination found on lootgen (eg: silver weapon, magecraft shield, etc...)
- Add the ability to add augment slots to any item, following same rules as lootgen
- Add the ability to craft augments themselves (eg: Decon a blue, combine with a heavy fort shard for blue of heavy fort)
- Therefore, add the ability to craft base augments you can then attach effects onto

New delineation between 1-100 and 100-200 recipes:
- In addition to or instead of flexible, 100-200 recipes are BtAoE versions of the 1-100 BtCoE shards
- Unbound recipe list identical to bound, with same 1-100 and 100-200 delineation. Only difference is they cost twice the essences.


This would mean the only difference between lootgen and cannith crafted would be you couldn't craft a thaumaturgy staff because it has multiple prefixes. Maybe add the ability to craft t-staffs, but not necessary.

In an ideal world both crafting and lootgen would be powered by the same database, so maybe flexible shards just go away. There's barely any slotting rules on lootgen nowadays anyway.

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The major issue I saw with that is the "time sync" thing didn't pan out because within a week of the system being released people had already socked their way to max crafting level.That's because there was an artificial hard cap. The first beta on live only let us level to 50, so it isn't surprising that people managed to level to 50 quickly.

[stoopid_cowboy]

we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system.

Please tell all of us that you are planning to go back to the MotU lootgen system!
During that time, random lootgen was fun, exciting, and different. Folks would actually look at the items in the chest to see what kind of lottery they won!

After that was, well, Ghostbane...

Give us some excitement back! I want to win the lootgen lottery and pull something random better than raid loot!

[sir_smacks_alot]

I will save specific ideas for another post when we get more info on the scope of this crafting pass. That being said here are a few general ideas I have for what crafting should be.

1) Crafting should be able to create any stats, skills etc. that are available in random loot.

2) Crafting should be able to create a few useful things that random loot does not have.

3) With high crafting level we should be able to make items that are useful well into epic levels.

4) Crafting should be able to make "twink" gear. Meaning stuff useable at slightly lower levels than is available in random loot.

5) Crafting should differ from random loot slightly on what special effects are available. (example You could maybe find a weapon of the crusader, but not craft it. You could craft a weapon of undead slaying which would have something like weaken undead, and disruption bundled in a single effect.

6) While still unable to create items that would compete with named loot allow us to craft some of the cool effects available on named items. (example Limb chopper we could craft it but not with as many extra stats etc. as on the named items.)

7) Crafting should be something we can sell and/or pass from one toon to the next on our account

Although these few things don't give any specifics, I believe that it gives a good set of goals to revitalize crafting. While not invalidating random loot, or named loot this would allow us to make our own custom gear sets. This would also give us an incentive to use crafting even if it is only to fill in holes in our setup until we find the item we want.

[Jatner]

It's probably a minor niggle in the grand scheme of things, but one thing I hate about crafting is having to work out what the end ML of the item will be. Rather than giving each shard an 'enchantment level' which you then have to run through a formula, each shard should simply have a 'ML+x' rating. Add those +x numbers together and you get the ML of your final item (after adding extra for augment slots if appropriate)

[sir_smacks_alot]

Please tell all of us that you are planning to go back to the MotU lootgen system!
During that time, random lootgen was fun, exciting, and different. Folks would actually look at the items in the chest to see what kind of lottery they won!

After that was, well, Ghostbane...

Give us some excitement back! I want to win the lootgen lottery and pull something random better than raid loot!

This would be so awesome that i would need more storage again. Also we could possibly revert some of the affixes that stayed back to the original form. I don't feel like logging in to look up specific ones at this time but a lot of the "special" affixes were changed with the ghostbane loot pass. Thses special affixes were usually much more fun before the changes. I know most of them are just as powerful now as originally a lot of the actual fun was taken out by exchanging low percentage high damage procs with flat damage, or exchanging some of the on vorpal effects to other blah damage effects. Some of the most useful effects such as parrying, and heal amp were removed totally.

If they gave us those thigs back and then put a lot of them in the crafting system I would start actually playing my alts again. I would actually level all my toons in crafting, and most importantly i would spend more money. This would see me return to logging in for many more hours since i would be able to use all my characters again instead of trying to farm out the items i need for one toon and using the rest as bank toons. As is, I have parked toons with 10+ lives and full epic destinies to use as bank toons since it would take me forever to gear all of them. If we had cool and interesting effects, and could craft said things to fit our playstyle i would sink tons of time and money back into the toons I parked due to gear and inventory reasons.

[HunterjWizzard]

An update to Cannith Crafting is something we are actively working towards. It will not appear in U29, but there is a strong chance it will be in a patch after U29 but before U30.

The reason for this is we are making a big overhaul to the randomized loot system, and Cannith will be based off of how that turns out. Having the extra time to tweak the randomized loot, as well as have it in the hands of players to get feedback and polish, will allow Cannith to be released in a better state.

Can we get literally any information at all beyond "we're working on it"?

[TakeItToTheLimit]

The prefix/suffix mechanic is really holding back Cannith casting.
It is not possible to create mixed weapons under the existing system - e.g. a thunder and lightning weapon because thundering and shocking are both prefixes.

So, either:

1) Get rid of prefixes and suffixes entirely so any number of shards may be appended to an item (ML limits permitting)
2) Add some new types of shard - additional prefix, additional suffix so more shards can be appended by suitably high level crafters.
3) Create a new shard type that converts a prefix to a suffix or vice versa so currently impossible recipes become possible (e.g. Holy, Metalline)

[UurlockYgmeov]

Can we get literally any information at all beyond "we're working on it"?

my suspicion is that more information will be coming in the next four to six weeks concerning random loot, and nothing much more will be posted about the cannith crafting update / pass until after U29 is live.

[HunterjWizzard]

my suspicion is that more information will be coming in the next four to six weeks concerning random loot, and nothing much more will be posted about the cannith crafting update / pass until after U29 is live.

Suspicions and suggestions are lovely, but I feel like even 4 to 6 weeks in advance they should be able to tell is something - anything - more than just "we're working on it"

[UurlockYgmeov]

Suspicions and suggestions are lovely, but I feel like even 4 to 6 weeks in advance they should be able to tell is something - anything - more than just "we're working on it"

well - it probably comes down to this: either they spend the time getting stuff done or spend the time telling us what they should be doing but are now telling us about instead of doing. :P

and it isn't just the time it takes to type up a forum post - it is the time reading the thread after, and replying. massive time suck.

so I personally want them to spend the time doing - and then when they are ready and have the time - then tell us what they are planning (specifics - because they have been telling us about random loot and cannith crafting update/pass for almost a year)

[deadlord43]

Now they're going to sell soul gems? ***??? That is just stupid. Now people who made money obtaining them and selling them are SOL. If you're going to do that, you might as well just take them out of the formula entirely.
Another dumb move, Turbine.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Now they're going to sell soul gems? ***??? That is just stupid. Now people who made money obtaining them and selling them are SOL. If you're going to do that, you might as well just take them out of the formula entirely.
Another dumb move, Turbine.

no - my suggestion was to add the twelve vendor that exists in the test dojo on lamannia as a high end favor unlock - and have all items they sell be bound to account.

[Ralmeth]

Aside from updating Cannith Crafting to match with the new loot system, my biggest issues with the current crafting system are:

Shards of Potential
I really hate these. I can't tell you how many times I've created all the shards I want for an item, I start happily crafting away and then I get the error message that the item doesn't have enough potential. Sure, I've learned to just keep a stash of shards of potential, but these are a pointless time & essence sink, especially if you want to craft something for higher levels. Please remove these.

Lesser Essences
I don't see any reason that these are in the system either. Before I work on leveling up my crafting, it's a real time sink and not fun to sit there and deconstruct a bunch of greaters into lessers, to have a good ratio of the two. They just overly complicate the system without adding anything of value. Please simplify the recipes by removing these and then rename greater essences to simply "essences".

Limitations on Shard Placement
So many times I've crafted something with only a prefix or suffix. The item works well, but as my character levels up I realize that I could craft something else onto the item to make it better. However when I look at the possible shards that I could craft, my selection is limited to nothing that I want. Or the item effects I want are all prefixes, and I have no more prefix slots available, but plenty of suffixes available. Or I realize I could really benefit from a particular effect, I craft the shard I want, and realize I have no where to put it without shuffling all of my gear around like a giant jigsaw puzzle. Grr. Please free up the restrictions of what shard can be placed where, without needing to have an obscenely high crafting level. Crafting should allow us to more easily solve the gearing jigsaw puzzle.