WIS and unyielding sentinel

[Tlorrd]

Please add wisdom to the stat bonus for unyielding sentinel. Other EDs have 3 different stat bonuses available for choice. This would add more versatility to the divine EDs. Thank you.

[FranOhmsford]

Unyielding Sentinel is already a dirty word {well 2 words actually} - How is adding Wis as a choice gonna put it on par with DC or LD or EA?

The Melees will still play in DC or LD.
The Divine Casters will still play in DC or EA {Or Draconic}.

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

[Hobgoblin]

Unyielding Sentinel is already a dirty word {well 2 words actually} - How is adding Wis as a choice gonna put it on par with DC or LD or EA?

The Melees will still play in DC or LD.
The Divine Casters will still play in DC or EA {Or Draconic}.

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

my druid says otherwise.

[Enderoc]

my druid says otherwise.

Personally I think US is one of the better trees. I agree completely.

[Marshal_Lannes]

You become very very hard to kill in US, which seems to be the purpose of it. So in that regard it is a success. The most popular EDs are the high DPS EDs which says more about what the game rewards than vs the specific ED.

[Tlorrd]

Unyielding Sentinel is already a dirty word {well 2 words actually} - How is adding Wis as a choice gonna put it on par with DC or LD or EA?

The Melees will still play in DC or LD.
The Divine Casters will still play in DC or EA {Or Draconic}.

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

What is one person's trash is another's treasure. I want to add more versatility to builds while staying within certain game tenants. As evidenced by the few posts above, I think this idea would be an easy and welcome change for many divines/WIS based toons.

[Enderoc]

You become very very hard to kill in US, which seems to be the purpose of it. So in that regard it is a success. The most popular EDs are the high DPS EDs which says more about what the game rewards than vs the specific ED.

For melees it is fine, and in my opinion should have been in the melee sphere...except they had no idea what to do with shadowdancer I think.

[hp1055cm]

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

What a crock. I use US frequently. Stop contributing to the false dichotomy that everybody has to play a cookie cutter build.

Adding a choice for Wisdom in US makes sense to me.

[scipiojedi]

US is my favorite destiny what are you talking about? I don't even know what adrenaline is

[Enoach]

Unyielding Sentinel is already a dirty word {well 2 words actually} - How is adding Wis as a choice gonna put it on par with DC or LD or EA?

The Melees will still play in DC or LD.
The Divine Casters will still play in DC or EA {Or Draconic}.

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

I'm sorry Fran, going to have to disagree with you on this one. US is one of my favorite EDs, and I have many guildmates that enjoy this on their characters as well. The main reason is it fits the Defensive nature needed for their builds and as someone else pointed out nigh un-killable. Additionally, it comes with healing options as well as Hate generation options. The healing and extra defense means a twist is not needed for Cocoon.

Personally I think if people actually took a moment and Dialed back their DPS from 11 they might actually find that 6 is really all that is needed to be successful and that they have been missing out on aspects of the game of abilities that they have long labeled as not useful because they have been dialed up so high on DPS. Of course I hold Turbine partly responsible for allowing a DPS of 11 to not have a downside such as needing more defensive or tactical means in combat to be successful with low resource uses.


As a response to the OP's request. Personally I would like to see all EDs have 3 options that make sense for the Sphere/Target user. Wisdom in this ED makes sense because all Divine Classes use Wisdom in one manner or another.

[Gljosh]

I would use US as my raid healer ED. Renewal, twist in Cocoon, free Resurrections, and I almost can't die.

[EnziteBob]

Unyielding Sentinel is for tanking with nice heals mixed in.

[Gremmlynn]

US is the margin for error ED and little else.

Also, asking about adding another stat type to any ED just says it's otherwise lacking IMO as it doesn't have better things to spend points on.

[Pnumbra]

Unyielding Sentinel is already a dirty word {well 2 words actually} - How is adding Wis as a choice gonna put it on par with DC or LD or EA?

The Melees will still play in DC or LD.
The Divine Casters will still play in DC or EA {Or Draconic}.

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

Untrue. My ES Warlock's destiny of choice in that sphere. US is an excellent defensive support destiny. It can fit into all classes. I find it to be the best supplemental destiny thus far. I would like to see in tier(s) three and four of the ES tree, the ability to choose CHA or INT as an alternate to STR for attack and damage.

[FranOhmsford]

It would have been nice if any of you guys had spoken up when I was getting torn apart on these forums and elsewhere for stating a preference for US over LD or DC but I suppose better late than never eh?
Specifically I stated that US was the second best destiny I played in for my Pure Monk after GMoF {and he's still the only character I have that's completed every single destiny!}.

BTW I wasn't stating my own view higher up in this thread but that of the forums in my experience - I LIKE US! {Personally my Warlock will probably stay in Fatesinger unless EA is really as good as people make it out to be but my Warlock despite being Aura Fey and using EB/SB isn't a Melee - I can't fit in melee feats and am Pure so no Pally Enhancements}.


I have multiple beefs with LD - The first tier is absolute trash and basically an EDP Tax! There's far too many activated combat enhancements and not enough points to max out Crit Dmg and get Blitz thanks to that EDP Tax in Tier 1! {Oh and forget about Str after the first two tiers - Which with Tier 1 being required as the only viable Tier 1 and Tier 2 being required to get back to an even Str is a must!}.

DC I just don't like full stop.

[BigErkyKid]

It would have been nice if any of you guys had spoken up when I was getting torn apart on these forums and elsewhere for stating a preference for US over LD or DC but I suppose better late than never eh?
Specifically I stated that US was the second best destiny I played in for my Pure Monk after GMoF {and he's still the only character I have that's completed every single destiny!}.

This is because the people who are saying US is good are playing druids and warlocks, not melees. They pack sufficient DPS and this gives them immortality.

[Enoach]

It would have been nice if any of you guys had spoken up when I was getting torn apart on these forums and elsewhere for stating a preference for US over LD or DC but I suppose better late than never eh?
Specifically I stated that US was the second best destiny I played in for my Pure Monk after GMoF {and he's still the only character I have that's completed every single destiny!}.

BTW I wasn't stating my own view higher up in this thread but that of the forums in my experience - I LIKE US! {Personally my Warlock will probably stay in Fatesinger unless EA is really as good as people make it out to be but my Warlock despite being Aura Fey and using EB/SB isn't a Melee - I can't fit in melee feats and am Pure so no Pally Enhancements}.


I have multiple beefs with LD - The first tier is absolute trash and basically an EDP Tax! There's far too many activated combat enhancements and not enough points to max out Crit Dmg and get Blitz thanks to that EDP Tax in Tier 1! {Oh and forget about Str after the first two tiers - Which with Tier 1 being required as the only viable Tier 1 and Tier 2 being required to get back to an even Str is a must!}.

DC I just don't like full stop.

I have been defending US from the beginning and I play a Pure Paladin Defender focus. I did speak up. Fran no matter what don't drink the Forum Kool-Aid, just don't.


This is because the people who are saying US is good are playing druids and warlocks, not melees. They pack sufficient DPS and this gives them immortality.
Forums are fickle, I was running a Necro focused Sorcerer before Vale first came out, at that time it was DPS or go home. Vale hits and its DCs or go home. I've been playing a paladin since '06 and forums were Paladins suck (you would think based on the comments prior to the Paladin pass that a paladin was using a wet noodle for a weapon) Yet I was tanking Sulu during the time groups insisted only a WF could do that all while being a fleshy paladin.

Forums are far from 100% on in its opinions. I've found its closer to 20% :) and I'm being charitable.

[MagicBlue]

I understand the efficacy of US for best defence and healing, but sincerely I do not see the need to put also wisdom as stat.
US is focused on Smite Evil, Lay on Hands and HP, that means charisma and constitution.
Wisdom is not a focus stat for the features of the US destiny.

[Tlorrd]

I understand the efficacy of US for best defence and healing, but sincerely I do not see the need to put also wisdom as stat.
US is focused on Smite Evil, Lay on Hands and HP, that means charisma and constitution.
Wisdom is not a focus stat for the features of the US destiny.

Well seeing as Legendary content is coming and at some point in the near/far future reaper mode, one may want to make a wis based divine that can heal and stay alive yet also contribute to the party dps. Hence more versatility. Its a divine ED .... add Wis to the stat enhancement.

[Blastyswa]

Unyielding Sentinel is already a dirty word {well 2 words actually} - How is adding Wis as a choice gonna put it on par with DC or LD or EA?

The Melees will still play in DC or LD.
The Divine Casters will still play in DC or EA {Or Draconic}.

US is a destiny that you level up then get out of.

I don't play in Unyielding Sentinel myself outside of difficult tanking because of how much DPS it would sacrifice for me to do so. However, I know that some builds focus on offense through enhancements and defense through epic destinies. I personally do an all around focus on both. While I typically feel some confusion at seeing builds stuck to Unyielding Sentinel like glue at the cost of DPS, it's a valid destiny choice if defense is more important than offense for a build. (Sidenote: My normal Divine Crusader Hp/PRR is 1600/240. That contributes to why I don't think anyone needs to play in sentinel, because if you can't get defense in an offense destiny you just aren't being creative enough) To elucidate, I have seen builds that do alright DPS in Sentinel. I don't think I could think of a situation out of tanking where I would want to run a normal quest in Sentinel (Exception: ADQ1. That Marilith is a pain without knockdown immunity). In any case, to refer back to the OP, I don't think Sentinel needs wisdom as an additional stat, but I also am not against it if it is something relatively simple to add in. I personally don't take any stat boosts in Sentinel, leaning more towards AC bonuses and paly like buffs (AC is useful. I have 223 in Sentinel, and that's enough to take red alert in EE ToEE solo). To each their own though.

[Silverleafeon]

As a response to the OP's request. Personally I would like to see all EDs have 3 options that make sense for the Sphere/Target user. Wisdom in this ED makes sense because all Divine Classes use Wisdom in one manner or another.

Spot on, and from the design of Crusader we can assume the devs think so too, but have not had the time needed to retrack and change earlier EDs.

[Jiirix]

Adding WIS to US would have only benefits and no downsides imho.

[MagicBlue]

Adding WIS to US would have only benefits and no downsides imho.

It would add benefit to the character, not to the destiny.

Of course every class could use well that destiny. Why not to add STR also?

Should be better that in all destinies you could choose one on any stat.

[Jiirix]

It would add benefit to the character, not to the destiny.

Of course every class could use well that destiny. Why not to add STR also?

Should be better that in all destinies you could choose one on any stat.

Hard choices are fine and some ED's should come at the drawback not supporting the main-stat for certain builds.
But adding WIS to US wouldn't make US the only and obvious choice for any builds I know of. And it fits in the theme, doesn't it?

Like INT would be a solid addition to Fatesinger. But adding INT or CHA to Shiradi could lead to pigenholing.

[Tlorrd]

I understand the efficacy of US for best defence and healing, but sincerely I do not see the need to put also wisdom as stat.
US is focused on Smite Evil, Lay on Hands and HP, that means charisma and constitution.
Wisdom is not a focus stat for the features of the US destiny.

I would also point out that US gives +1 caster level for clerics, FVS, and paladins for each core. So as seeing this, it makes sense that it should offer Wis as a stat enhancement in my mind.

[Enderoc]

US should have Str Con Charisma as stats if anything

[IronClan]

I think they should make them all six way personally but ED's are one of the biggest Design/execution failures of the game, and then different Dev's came in and piled insult onto injury by treating them differently than the MOTU era Dev's.

There was a time when there weren't SUPPOSED to be off destinies, the specificity was supposed to be flavor and the power was supposed to be flexible and multi purpose.

[slarden]

US is intended to be for tanking. Alot of people like to use it on casters because of the survivability easy button -I used it myself for that reason some. I don't think caster DC stat should be added - if casters want survivability US is already good for that. If they want DC choose another tree.

The only tree I am aware of with 3 stat options is Divine Crusader.

I hope we don't get to where the game is scaled around people running in US with healing from DC twisted in. That would really kill diversity.

[PsychoBlonde]

I think they should make them all six way personally but ED's are one of the biggest Design/execution failures of the game, and then different Dev's came in and piled insult onto injury by treating them differently than the MOTU era Dev's.

There was a time when there weren't SUPPOSED to be off destinies, the specificity was supposed to be flavor and the power was supposed to be flexible and multi purpose.

The problem with destinies is the *wildly* divergent scaling of abilities. There are Tier 4 abilities (energy burst) that are far more powerful and useful than Tier 5's. There are destinies (Primal Avatar) that basically give NOTHING good short of a single Tier 5 ability that requires insane tuning and investment to make it work. There are abilities that are so dramatically more powerful than anything else (Master's Blitz) that they become an idiot button.

The choice with destinies is basically "be a giant pile of cheese, or be horrible" with nearly nothing in between. The 3 divine destinies are the best of the bunch because Crusader is the most recent and EA and US were both updated the most recently. Everything else is a bit of a mess.

I suspect that they want to clean up the other destinies eventually, but enhancements being the priority makes sense. You have to buy destinies but EVERYONE gets enhancements, and it's hard to know how to tune the destinies further until the enhancements are cleaned up and reasonably rationalized.

It says something that when the destinies came out they were pretty much the best-designed part of the game. Now they're among the worst. Lots of improvements have happened.

[Tlorrd]

Just a quick bump, anyone else care to weigh in (including devs :))