Maldrak
11-19-2015, 09:22 PM
Ok, I realize there have been ALOT of threads on these subjects, but I ran into some pretty bad game balance issues lately, and it got me thinking about how these were mis-implemented, which lead me to thinking about how they "should" (in my opinion) have been implemented. Specifically, force/poison/light damage is out of control due to how MRR was implemented, but this solution ALSO helps balance some of the late game issues with DR, Resists, Absorption, and Spell Crits as well...
1) If Spell Power affects the damage, then MRR reduces it - same for melee/ranged power and PRR - the two should be PROGRAMMATICALLY linked. Ie, call Damage*SpellPower() and you get Damage*[ (1+SpellPower*Scalars/100) / (1+MRR/100) ] - there is no separate function for /MRR(), the appropriate defense is just an automatic part of applying spell(or other)powers. And it is applied after ALL other damage modifying considerations (like DR/Elem Resist/absorption).
("Scalars" refer to abilities that benefit from 150%/etc of melee power or spell power, like some warlock abilities.)
Spell damage should look like this:
[ (Base Damage + Adders)*(Crit multiplier if crit) - (Elemental Resist/Absorption if applicable) ] * [ (1+SpellPower*Scalars/100) / (1+MRR/100) ]
Physical Damage should look like this:
[ (Base Damage + Adders)*(Crit multiplier if crit) - (DR if applicable) ] * [ (1+Melee_RangedPower*Scalars/100) / (1+PRR/100) ]
Special Damage (like poison damage, Bane damage, certain spells/abilities that are meant to pierce defenses/have hard counters) should look like this:
[ (Base Damage + Adders)*(Crit multiplier if crit) - (Applicable Resist/Absorption) ] * 1.0
Basically, if Spell Power applies, it applies after everything else, and MRR automatically applies to counter it (and same for Physical Power and PRR). The reason for this is that the current system allows for Spell Power amped defense ignoring abilities that are, quite frankly, one shot kills with literally NO means of defense (the spell power and crit can - and often do - take damage numbers beyond the realm of POSSIBLE HP levels. So with no way to mitigate the damage, there is no remaining defense except for stupid things like send the lvl 1 hireling to take the nasty hit and kill the mob its ability is on cooldown - which is a <DevelopementallyImpared> game mechanic.
2) Spell Crit has gotten to the point that SOME means of mitigating it needs to be available - personally, I like the idea of Normal Fortification/immunity to crits applying, along with the normal means of Fortification Reduction (yes, this could mean a backstabbing rogue/wizard would have a better chance of spell critting a fortified target, but this is still preferable to the current state of things, ESPECIALLY with the upcoming update 29 feats)
Implications:
Force/Light/Poison damage stops being imbalanced - especially for effects like Champion damage adders which now use the relevant defense for their attack style (ie, MRR against casters, and PRR against physical attackers).
Also, spells MEANT to bypass all defenses can do so with properly controllable damage outputs. (Ie, these spells are useful against high defense targets, even for "rookie" users, but more "normal" spells are better for powerhouses against normal/no defenses - instead of using defense bypass spells on everything because they hit defenseless targets just as hard as their "normal" counterparts do and "hardened" targets infinitely better than their non-piercing counterparts.)
DR and Elemental Resists retain their value into Epic levels, and don't automatically become increasingly worthless the higher the devs raise the level cap...
Some specific examples of how this may change gameplay:
- Those stupid hounds aren't 100 times scarier than their beholder overlords any more....
- Champions aren't as much a game of Russian Roulette any more (ie, a random force/poison/light mod doesn't suddenly make a champion minion 100 times scarier than the supposed Boss they serve. And no more, "did the dice decide I'd die with no chance for appeals today? To the tune of a wasted hour of my life because there is no way to predict or prepare for the potential attack, I just gotta commit and hope I get lucky...")
- Some elemental adders used by physical attackers that get PhysicalPower instead of SpellPower get resisted by the appropriate defense. Example: Paladin KotC light damage is now resisted by PRR since it's enhanced by MeleePower. This may actually be undesirable (if the elemental damage was meant to give the physical attack multiple attack vectors, requiring balanced defenses to counter, instead of specialized defenses.) Other Elemental Damage adders, boosted by spell Power, to Physical attacks also get appropriate defenses. Example: Eldritch Knight Spellsword damage is now resisted by MRR.
In ANY case, something needs to be done, because cheesy developer fails that I'm not permitted to do anything about leading to a ruined afternoon are REALLY starting to detract from my enjoyment of the game.
1) If Spell Power affects the damage, then MRR reduces it - same for melee/ranged power and PRR - the two should be PROGRAMMATICALLY linked. Ie, call Damage*SpellPower() and you get Damage*[ (1+SpellPower*Scalars/100) / (1+MRR/100) ] - there is no separate function for /MRR(), the appropriate defense is just an automatic part of applying spell(or other)powers. And it is applied after ALL other damage modifying considerations (like DR/Elem Resist/absorption).
("Scalars" refer to abilities that benefit from 150%/etc of melee power or spell power, like some warlock abilities.)
Spell damage should look like this:
[ (Base Damage + Adders)*(Crit multiplier if crit) - (Elemental Resist/Absorption if applicable) ] * [ (1+SpellPower*Scalars/100) / (1+MRR/100) ]
Physical Damage should look like this:
[ (Base Damage + Adders)*(Crit multiplier if crit) - (DR if applicable) ] * [ (1+Melee_RangedPower*Scalars/100) / (1+PRR/100) ]
Special Damage (like poison damage, Bane damage, certain spells/abilities that are meant to pierce defenses/have hard counters) should look like this:
[ (Base Damage + Adders)*(Crit multiplier if crit) - (Applicable Resist/Absorption) ] * 1.0
Basically, if Spell Power applies, it applies after everything else, and MRR automatically applies to counter it (and same for Physical Power and PRR). The reason for this is that the current system allows for Spell Power amped defense ignoring abilities that are, quite frankly, one shot kills with literally NO means of defense (the spell power and crit can - and often do - take damage numbers beyond the realm of POSSIBLE HP levels. So with no way to mitigate the damage, there is no remaining defense except for stupid things like send the lvl 1 hireling to take the nasty hit and kill the mob its ability is on cooldown - which is a <DevelopementallyImpared> game mechanic.
2) Spell Crit has gotten to the point that SOME means of mitigating it needs to be available - personally, I like the idea of Normal Fortification/immunity to crits applying, along with the normal means of Fortification Reduction (yes, this could mean a backstabbing rogue/wizard would have a better chance of spell critting a fortified target, but this is still preferable to the current state of things, ESPECIALLY with the upcoming update 29 feats)
Implications:
Force/Light/Poison damage stops being imbalanced - especially for effects like Champion damage adders which now use the relevant defense for their attack style (ie, MRR against casters, and PRR against physical attackers).
Also, spells MEANT to bypass all defenses can do so with properly controllable damage outputs. (Ie, these spells are useful against high defense targets, even for "rookie" users, but more "normal" spells are better for powerhouses against normal/no defenses - instead of using defense bypass spells on everything because they hit defenseless targets just as hard as their "normal" counterparts do and "hardened" targets infinitely better than their non-piercing counterparts.)
DR and Elemental Resists retain their value into Epic levels, and don't automatically become increasingly worthless the higher the devs raise the level cap...
Some specific examples of how this may change gameplay:
- Those stupid hounds aren't 100 times scarier than their beholder overlords any more....
- Champions aren't as much a game of Russian Roulette any more (ie, a random force/poison/light mod doesn't suddenly make a champion minion 100 times scarier than the supposed Boss they serve. And no more, "did the dice decide I'd die with no chance for appeals today? To the tune of a wasted hour of my life because there is no way to predict or prepare for the potential attack, I just gotta commit and hope I get lucky...")
- Some elemental adders used by physical attackers that get PhysicalPower instead of SpellPower get resisted by the appropriate defense. Example: Paladin KotC light damage is now resisted by PRR since it's enhanced by MeleePower. This may actually be undesirable (if the elemental damage was meant to give the physical attack multiple attack vectors, requiring balanced defenses to counter, instead of specialized defenses.) Other Elemental Damage adders, boosted by spell Power, to Physical attacks also get appropriate defenses. Example: Eldritch Knight Spellsword damage is now resisted by MRR.
In ANY case, something needs to be done, because cheesy developer fails that I'm not permitted to do anything about leading to a ruined afternoon are REALLY starting to detract from my enjoyment of the game.