Update 29 Feats: Legendary Feats

[sjbb87]

That is correct. I thought about this earlier and decided I would post about it later today when I had time. Well, it's later.

Steelstar, can we add +4 max dex bonus to this feat as well? It's easy for an assassin to cap out their dodge right now and, as dualscissors pointed out, max dex bonus is the limiting factor. So unless this feat also raises max dex bonus, the dodge bonus is effectively useless for assassins, and probably for tactics fighters as well since they will likely be using armor with a much lower max dex bonus. So the dodge component would really only benefit monks. Assassins, tactics fighters, and monks are probably the only builds that would take this feat, and the dodge component will be useless to two out of those three, but not if it also adds +4 max dex bonus. There are much better options for other builds that might be interested in this feat (swashbuckler would be better off with feywild or arborea, tempest would be better off with arborea, etc.), so it's really geared toward the three I mentioned. So how about it?

signed,
if possible add 4~8 % offhand doublestrike or 2%~4 % doublestrike to non monks


No, not nerfed. The + to Assassination DCs (which should have been added to the Ethereal Scion) will be added the the Astral Scion instead. Ethereal Scion will just be left as-is.

ty

[CThruTheEgo]

if possible add 4~8 % offhand doublestrike or 2%~4 % doublestrike to non monks

/signed.

Also a good point. Doublestrike is a lot less effective on twf builds (i.e. assassins and twf tactics fighters), so adding offhand doublestrike would make up for that without also boosting thf even further (which would happen if you simply added another 4 doublestrike).

[nokowi]

That is correct. I thought about this earlier and decided I would post about it later today when I had time. Well, it's later.

Steelstar, can we add +4 max dex bonus to this feat as well? It's easy for an assassin to cap out their dodge right now and, as dualscissors pointed out, max dex bonus is the limiting factor. So unless this feat also raises max dex bonus, the dodge bonus is effectively useless for assassins, and probably for tactics fighters as well since they will likely be using armor with a much lower max dex bonus. So the dodge component would really only benefit monks. Assassins, tactics fighters, and monks are probably the only builds that would take this feat, and the dodge component will be useless to two out of those three, but not if it also adds +4 max dex bonus. There are much better options for other builds that might be interested in this feat (swashbuckler would be better off with feywild or arborea, tempest would be better off with arborea, etc.), so it's really geared toward the three I mentioned. So how about it?

Light armor Dodge caps at 30 regardless of abilities that increase dodge cap. Please go try this and confirm it for yourself.

+4 maxdex does nothing for light armor rogues. All these maxdex increases to light armor are confusing players who don't understand the Hard Cap is at 30 once you boost your MaxDex bonus from your armor MaxDex value to 30.

For pajama players, the extra dodge cap is actually useful. I am already switching my Rogue to Pajama's for 50% dodge instead of 30% dodge in light armor. The loss of 11 PRR is nothing compared to the additional miss chances.

Please increase the hard cap above 30 for light armor if you continue to add maxdex increases.

Pajamas>Light Armor right now.

[Nightmanis]

Light armor Dodge caps at 30 regardless of abilities that increase dodge cap. Please go try this and confirm it for yourself.

+4 maxdex does nothing for light armor rogues. All these maxdex increases to light armor are confusing players who don't understand the Hard Cap is at 30 once you boost your MaxDex bonus from your armor MaxDex value to 30.

For pajama players, the extra dodge cap is actually useful. I am already switching my Rogue to Pajama's for 50% dodge instead of 30% dodge in light armor. The loss of 11 PRR is nothing compared to the additional miss chances.

Please increase the hard cap above 30 for light armor if you continue to add maxdex increases.

Pajamas>Light Armor right now.

Pm sent

[nokowi]

Pm sent

I stole this from CThru's Hassan Assassin build:

Max Dodge:
25 base
3 light armor mastery
3 nimble reactions
4 acrobat cores
2 fencing master ship buff
10 measure the foe
47 TOTAL

Feel free to google search maxdodge threads, which are often monk based, to find any other sources.

These would only apply above 30% if you were in pajamas right now, as there is a Hard Cap at 30% in light armor that few people seem to be aware of. The Hard Cap in light armor was only 25% a year ago. All the additional dodge bonuses (MtF, etc) are doing nothing for most of those in light armor.

Here is an easy way to check. Go to your character screen and hover over the shield by AC. It will list your dodge bonus. Now sneak for 5 seconds with MtF, and watch your dodge chance increase. It wont go past 30% no matter what you do in light armor. It might cap below 30% if you don't have enough dodge, or sources of max dodge.

Now take off your light armor and repeat this test. Watch your dodge bonus go above 30%.

Your light armor max dodge likely starts at 19% (TF Armor), and you need max dodge sources up to 30%, where it reaches a Hard Cap (can not go above 30%).

Unarmored starts at 25% max dodge, and must still be increased with max dex bonuses, but has no Hard Cap that I am aware of.

In either cases, you must increase your dodge % to your MaxDodge value to get the full benefit of your maxdodge.

[Nothingtoseehere]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane


+4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
+4 to Reflex Saves.


While its good that you have added assassinate DC it shouldn't be on a feat because that forces any assassin who wants to assassinate to use that feat. Already you cannot get reliable assassinate DCs without going completely crazy and ignoring everything else in the newest content and I fully expect assassinate DCs to increase at a similarly steep or steeper rate into legendary.
It also does nothing to help this feat in terms of anyone but assassins who don't really want to take it but have to.

So why not make it so you get a bonus to assassinate DCs = to 1/2 or to your full epic levels. This helps DCs in the newest content and also in legendary. Not knowing where the DCs will be set and what new bonus we will get I am going to suggest that 1/2 of your epic levels seems appropriate.
Alternaively you could make combat mastery item abilities add to assassinate DC for another 6ish? I think to assassinate DCs but needing more gear.

I really don't see a feat as a solution here and adding assassinate DCs to a feat to try an prop it up isn't the right way to do things either. But if you are set on it being a legendary feat option at least put it on one that is a little better than that one. IMO Ethereal plane feat is a good fit thematically, or shadowfell (though please don't move it to shadowfell). Putting it on ethereal plane might make that one a better choice than Arborea plane for assassins at least. Ethereal plane is really hurting right now, its got 1 good ability and 3 that need replacing, replace 1 with assassinate DC and 2 with generally/broadly useful abilities to help counter the false perception that it is only for assassins, I mean even make 1 of them not useful for assassins if you need to.

Side note:
The dodge/dodge cap on Astral is useless to assassins due to having easy access to about 10 more dodge than max dex bonus, the reflex is useless to assassins since you can already easily have enough reflex to have nofail saves with full death pens and debuffs and take off your resistance item, the tactics DC is useless to assassins. So you want to give assassin's a feat for 4 DC and 4/4 doublestrike? Last I checked assassins weren't overperforming and needing the smallest buff you could manage for cap raise.

[nokowi]

While its good that you have added assassinate DC it shouldn't be on a feat because that forces any assassin who wants to assassinate to use that feat. Already you cannot get reliable assassinate DCs without going completely crazy and ignoring everything else in the newest content and I fully expect assassinate DCs to increase at a similarly steep or steeper rate into legendary.
It also does nothing to help this feat in terms of anyone but assassins who don't really want to take it but have to.

So why not make it so you get a bonus to assassinate DCs = to 1/2 or to your full epic levels. This helps DCs in the newest content and also in legendary. Not knowing where the DCs will be set and what new bonus we will get I am going to suggest that 1/2 of your epic levels seems appropriate.
Alternaively you could make combat mastery item abilities add to assassinate DC for another 6ish? I think to assassinate DCs but needing more gear.

I really don't see a feat as a solution here and adding assassinate DCs to a feat to try an prop it up isn't the right way to do things either. But if you are set on it being a legendary feat option at least put it on one that is a little better than that one. IMO Ethereal plane feat is a good fit thematically, or shadowfell (though please don't move it to shadowfell). Putting it on ethereal plane might make that one a better choice than Arborea plane for assassins at least. Ethereal plane is really hurting right now, its got 1 good ability and 3 that need replacing, replace 1 with assassinate DC and 2 with generally/broadly useful abilities to help counter the false perception that it is only for assassins, I mean even make 1 of them not useful for assassins if you need to.

Side note:
The dodge/dodge cap on Astral is useless to assassins due to having easy access to about 10 more dodge than max dex bonus, the reflex is useless to assassins since you can already easily have enough reflex to have nofail saves with full death pens and debuffs and take off your resistance item, the tactics DC is useless to assassins. So you want to give assassin's a feat for 4 DC and 4/4 doublestrike? Last I checked assassins weren't overperforming and needing the smallest buff you could manage for cap raise.

The reflex save is useful if you use acrobat defensive roll (chance = Reflex Save %).

I don't mind the +4 Assassinate DC, but I would agree that assassins need to be able to reach higher DC's without having to take this option.

I argued for MtF to stack up to 12 times (instead of 6) for assassinate DC. This forces you to choose between pausing longer between kills for better DC, and assassinating more often with a chance of failure. This is EXACTLY the kind of gameplay choice that assassins should have. Add in a build choice for +4 DC, and we have some really tough decisions.

Alternatively, assassins need a +4 to +6 exceptional bonus to DC in GS gear.

[CThruTheEgo]

Light armor Dodge caps at 30 regardless of abilities that increase dodge cap. Please go try this and confirm it for yourself.

This is not correct. I just confirmed in game.


Here is an easy way to check. Go to your character screen and hover over the shield by AC. It will list your dodge bonus. Now sneak for 5 seconds with MtF, and watch your dodge chance increase. It wont go past 30% no matter what you do in light armor. It might cap below 30% if you don't have enough dodge, or sources of max dodge.

I did this. Wearing shadow dragonhide armor (i.e. the light armor version), with all the enhancements, ED, gear, etc. listed in my build, I went and built up max shadow charges. With max shadow charges and full stacks of measure the foe (5), I have 37% dodge already. I beat on the training dummy with no weapons equipped so I could actually build up more than one stack of nimbleness. The most stacks I could get before it died were 3, which brought my dodge up to 40%. Due to the fact that both measure the foe and nimbleness each affect your dodge percentage and both decay all at once, I was unable to get it to the max listed in my build breakdown, but only due to lack of trying. The next time I am beating on a boss who will last longer than 2 seconds and give me enough time to build up stacks of nimbleness, I'll check to verify. But this preliminary testing indicates that all the bonuses listed on my breakdowns are accurate.

There are three factors which affect your dodge chance: dodge, max dodge, and max dex bonus. All three can limit how much dodge you actually benefit from. I list breakdowns for all three for the sake of transparency and, as far as I can tell, they are all working properly. My max dodge went up to 45%, as listed in my build. With 5 stacks of measure the foe but no stacks of nimbleness, I was at 37% standing dodge. Nimbleness was definitely applying, so 10 stacks should bring my dodge up to 47%, which is limited to 45 due to the max dex bonus only being 45. [Sidenote: my max dodge chance went up to 47% when I equipped the Boots of the Blessed Traveler that I just got from DoJ last night. This is worth noting because, the last I heard, the quality armor bonus was not working on assassins (not sure if they were tried on other builds). But it was applying for me, so it appears to be working properly.]

I'm not sure why your dodge does not go above 30 nokowi, but there is definitely not a hard cap of 30 in light armor. I know you are a dex based halfling atm, but you also told me you didn't invest heavily into acrobat. A lot of dodge bonuses come from acrobat, so that might be where some of your limitations are coming from. All my bonuses are listed and they all appear to be working properly, that's all I know.

EDIT: All of that said, the dodge/max dodge bonus from astral plane is still useless because it is extremely easy for an assassin to get their dodge as high as their max dex bonus. Thus, without also granting +4 max dex bonus, this aspect of the feat is useless for two of the three builds that would use it.


Alternatively, assassins need a +4 to +6 exceptional bonus to DC in GS gear.

I definitely agree that we need more sources of assassinate DC, and preferably not one single item that is the obvious best in slot due to it offering the highest DC bonus (i.e. Assassin's Kiss). A few different options (in different slots) that offer the same highest DC bonus would be nice for some build diversity.

Personally, I think the suggestion to allow improved sneak attack to add +1 DC per epic level was the best I've heard yet, even better than adding +4 to any of the legendary feats.

[nokowi]

This is not correct. I just confirmed in game.



I did this. Wearing shadow dragonhide armor (i.e. the light armor version), with all the enhancements, ED, gear, etc. listed in my build, I went and built up max shadow charges. With max shadow charges and full stacks of measure the foe (5), I have 37% dodge already. I beat on the training dummy with no weapons equipped so I could actually build up more than one stack of nimbleness. The most stacks I could get before it died were 3, which brought my dodge up to 40%. Due to the fact that both measure the foe and nimbleness each affect your dodge percentage and both decay all at once, I was unable to get it to the max listed in my build breakdown, but only due to lack of trying. The next time I am beating on a boss who will last longer than 2 seconds and give me enough time to build up stacks of nimbleness, I'll check to verify. But this preliminary testing indicates that all the bonuses listed on my breakdowns are accurate.

There are three factors which affect your dodge chance: dodge, max dodge, and max dex bonus. All three can limit how much dodge you actually benefit from. I list breakdowns for all three for the sake of transparency and, as far as I can tell, they are all working properly. My max dodge went up to 45%, as listed in my build. With 5 stacks of measure the foe but no stacks of nimbleness, I was at 37% standing dodge. Nimbleness was definitely applying, so 10 stacks should bring my dodge up to 47%, which is limited to 45 due to the max dex bonus only being 45. [Sidenote: my max dodge chance went up to 47% when I equipped the Boots of the Blessed Traveler that I just got from DoJ last night. This is worth noting because, the last I heard, the quality armor bonus was not working on assassins (not sure if they were tried on other builds). But it was applying for me, so it appears to be working properly.]

I'm not sure why your dodge does not go above 30 nokowi, but there is definitely not a hard cap of 30 in light armor. I know you are a dex based halfling atm, but you also told me you didn't invest heavily into acrobat. A lot of dodge bonuses come from acrobat, so that might be where some of your limitations are coming from. All my bonuses are listed and they all appear to be working properly, that's all I know.

EDIT: All of that said, the dodge/max dodge bonus from astral plane is still useless because it is extremely easy for an assassin to get their dodge as high as their max dex bonus. Thus, without also granting +4 max dex bonus, this aspect of the feat is useless for two of the three builds that would use it.



I definitely agree that we need more sources of assassinate DC, and preferably not one single item that is the obvious best in slot due to it offering the highest DC bonus (i.e. Assassin's Kiss). A few different options (in different slots) that offer the same highest DC bonus would be nice for some build diversity.

Personally, I think the suggestion to allow improved sneak attack to add +1 DC per epic level was the best I've heard yet, even better than adding +4 to any of the legendary feats.

Well if that's true, I may have had an issue with the UI not updating as I changed gear (maybe without opening/re-opening the UI?). I've tested this on multiple occasions, so I am really surprised to hear this. Let me confirm that there isn't something specific to acrobat tree that is causing the difference.

+1 DC per epic level will probably not scale with all future content well, unless every other build (caster, monk, etc) DC scales in the same manner. I would not recommend this implementation for this reason. It causes dev's to have to continually nerf/adjust builds rather than provide us with cool new gear (a much better way, in my opinion). Slotting extra stacking DC into Legendary GS is a better implementation, in my opinion, and would give us the gear options we want.

Also, it is only the latest content that has unobtainable DC's, so I see no reason to adjust anything prior to that. This also leaves some room for additional gear creation in the level 26-28 range (possible with a smaller, but stacking DC). Think of a mythic +1 to DC.

[DrawingGuy]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane


+4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
+4 to Reflex Saves.


As others have stated, adding +4 max Dex as well will make this applicable to tactics users in armor (Bards, Fighters, etc). As for the +4 Assassinate DCs, mixed opinion. This suddenly makes it a serious consideration for Assassin Rogues, but now is pulling them away from their Ethereal plane. I would think putting Assassinated DCs in there would be perfect. While I still would prefer to see the Assassinate moved to Ethereal and something else added to bolster Astral (such as Vorpal 19-20) so it fits classes better rather than spreading, still a solid change.

I also can confirm that there is no "hard cap" to light armor dodge - it is as high as you can get your max Dex and max dodge - I had 32% on my Bard in light armor, my Rogue had 35% in light armor, and if they were to add to Max Dex, it would not matter what armor type you had (unless they add a restriction), you'd gain 4 more dodge.

[CThruTheEgo]

Well if that's true, I may have had an issue with the UI not updating as I changed gear (maybe without opening/re-opening the UI?). I've tested this on multiple occasions, so I am really surprised to hear this. Let me confirm that there isn't something specific to acrobat tree that is causing the difference.

The UI that pops up when you hover the mouse over your AC number does not automatically update. You have to move your mouse away and bring it back again for the updated number, if that's what you're referring to. You do not have to close and reopen the character sheet, just bring up a new mouseover of the AC breakdown.


+1 DC per epic level will probably not scale with all future content well, unless every other build (caster, monk, etc) DC scales in the same manner. I would not recommend this implementation for this reason. It causes dev's to have to continually nerf/adjust builds rather than provide us with cool new gear (a much better way, in my opinion). Slotting extra stacking DC into Legendary GS is a better implementation, in my opinion, and would give us the gear options we want.

I think the +1 DC per epic level would scale pretty well actually, especially for newer players. Epic Gianthold raises the bar, but beyond that it's really only the highest level content where you need the extra DCs, so by the time you get to that content, you'll have the DCs for it. For newer content, with presumably higher mob saves, we will of course need even more DCs. Gear is a good option for that. I think some combination of both gear and feats or whatever would be ideal. That way we'd have multiple ways to reach the necessary DCs and hopefully mob saves would not be so high that all of them would be required, which would allow greater build diversity. Too narrow an option for DCs just means all assassins become cookie-cutter. And just for the sake of clarity, I should add that I don't want so many DCs available that assassinate becomes something you don't have to build for, so balance between the sources needs to exist, but it would be nice to have a little more build diversity among assassins.

[nokowi]

The UI that pops up when you hover the mouse over your AC number does not automatically update. You have to move your mouse away and bring it back again for the updated number, if that's what you're referring to. You do not have to close and reopen the character sheet, just bring up a new mouseover of the AC breakdown.


I can mouse over, close, open, doesn't matter. My max dodge does not go up with MtF, nor does dodge go past this value. Tested today.

https://youtu.be/Tu4uVFPwunQ

Photo 1: Standing Dodge (20%)
Photo 2: Dodge with MtF (3 ranks) at 5 (top left icon) Dodge=29% and MaxDodge remains at 29% (should now be 30% dodge and 39% max dodge)
Photo 3: With MtF at 5, and 3 Shadow charges, Dodge=29% and MaxDodge=29%. (should now be 33% dodge and 39% max dodge)

Shadowscale Armor (Max Dex = 19)
Saphire of Armored Agility: Max Dex =21
Light Armor Masteryx3: MaxDex = 27
Guild Buff: Max Dex =29

[brzytki]

I can mouse over, close, open, doesn't matter. My max dodge does not go up with MtF, nor does dodge go past this value. Tested today.

https://youtu.be/Tu4uVFPwunQ

Photo 1: Standing Dodge (20%)
Photo 2: Dodge with MtF (3 ranks) at 5 (top left icon) Dodge=29% and MaxDodge remains at 29% (should now be 30% dodge and 39% max dodge)
Photo 3: With MtF at 5, and 3 Shadow charges, Dodge=29% and MaxDodge=29%. (should now be 33% dodge and 39% max dodge)

Shadowscale Armor (Max Dex = 19)
Saphire of Armored Agility: Max Dex =21
Light Armor Masteryx3: MaxDex = 27
Guild Buff: Max Dex =29

That's because MtF does NOT increase your MaxDex bonus. Max Dodge =/= Max Dex.

Try with taking Lithe from SD. Your dodge will go up by 6 points.

Whichever is lower of the two (Max Dodge or Max Dex bonus) it is the limit of Dodge you can have at any moment.

[amsharkwei]

Hey, folks.

Just wanted to let you know that we're planning on adjusting Astral to be:

Scion of the Astral Plane


+4 to Tactical Feat and Assassinate DCs
+4% Doublestrike & Doubleshot. An additional +4 if you are centered.
+4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap.
+4 to Reflex Saves.


not bad. but this change did not slove the porblem, assassinate DC is not linear growth in epic level.
but if you decide make this change, I'll choose Astral . Having +4DC is rather better than not having.

[nokowi]

That's because MtF does NOT increase your MaxDex bonus. Max Dodge =/= Max Dex.

Try with taking Lithe from SD. Your dodge will go up by 6 points.

Whichever is lower of the two (Max Dodge or Max Dex bonus) it is the limit of Dodge you can have at any moment.

DOH! I removed Lithe at the intitial rogue pass, when Lithe/Light Armor Mastery were not interacting correctly, and forgot to throw it back in.

Thanks :)

[nokowi]

Too narrow an option for DCs just means all assassins become cookie-cutter. And just for the sake of clarity, I should add that I don't want so many DCs available that assassinate becomes something you don't have to build for, so balance between the sources needs to exist, but it would be nice to have a little more build diversity among assassins.

This same argument was made for giving Dex assassins assassinate. It has resulted in zero new build diversity. Dex-based assassin using Acrobat (with 1/2 damage below 1/2 HP), shadow dodge, no mercy, and haste boost means that 1 option is totally superior to all other options.

Higher DC does not lead to more build diversity, in the same way that giving Dex to assassinate did not result in more builds. Is anybody playing an Int build right now? Do they recognize that Dex builds have better hide, and that the new legendary feats (Hide/2 to SA) will make Dex Halflings even more superior to Int assassins than they are now? That Scion of the Planes is also better for Dex assassins, who can take advantage of that even higher dodge bonus?

The second 2 pally/18 rogue is an option, assassin will no longer play like an assassin. (+8 to all saves, extra PRR/MRR, etc), with all of their weaknesses removed.

Assassins have PLAY DIVERSITY that determine their effectiveness in a quest. The minute you allow them to have everything (good DPS, saves, toughness), that play diversity and important decision making (life or death decisions) will be gone. We already have unlimited build diversity with Bard (Skill based DC), and virtually nobody is playing them, despite the nearly unlimited build diversity.

Play Diversity >> Build Diversity

You threaten to remove play diversity the second assassin has one best combination that removes all weaknesses. I want to keep a class that actually has strengths and weaknesses. We already see this effect with Dex vs Int assassins, and you would be crazy to choose Int assassin, because Dex removes some of the weaknesses. (Better saves through Halfling, Better Dodge, Less Damage From Defensive Roll, No Mercy, etc). You can go to any other class if you don't want a class with both strengths and weaknesses. Let's not ruin assassin in the name of build diversity.

[Deathdefy]

Every school gets at least a +2 DC boost when taking those feats. Evocation, Conjuration and Necromancy were chosen for those feats due to having related schools, and that a very large portion of offensive spellcasting relies on those schools, but every school is getting a significant buff to DCs in this update, provided you spec for it.


Please add one of our lovable trashbag schools to each of the main feats as well.
e.g. Evo AND Abjuration +4
Conj AND Transmutation +4 (Both CCish)
Necro AND Illusion +4 (Both Instakill)

My favourite schools in Archmage are Transmutation (which is already waaaaaay behind Necro/Evo/Conj) and Illusion (which is behind Necro, but Draconic Presence's +3 to Phantasmal Killer's DC makes it only moderately dreadful).

Giving them +4 DC instead of the fringe benefit +2 DC, even by just throwing it into existing feats would make these Archmage lines less of a write off, since they look like they'll be even more hilariously suboptimal right now. To the point of not even flavour loving gimps like me could consider running them on EE, even with a maxed caster, and Intensify, and another +2DC from one of the new feats.

I honestly couldn't justify an Illusion archmage over a Necro lich. Worse DC, less survivable, strictly fewer targets susceptible to the only illusion insta-kill spell (and the rest of the school is non-existent / powerful party member trolling with hypnotic pattern).

TL;DR please make Illusion only a semi-unreasonable choice by keeping the DC feat up with Necro by throwing it a +4 DC into one of the feats somewhere.

The same applies for transmutation and abjuration, though I don't have as much of a horse in those races (a flesh to stoning archmage was also genuinely fun back in the day when their DC wasn't ~8-10 behind necro though).

Essentially, please keep build choices viable where it's possible without too much bother. I'd argue not making the 3 big schools even more of the only viable options restricts choice and makes the game worse. Please just throw +4 DCs for the bad schools into the existing feats.

[CThruTheEgo]

I can mouse over, close, open, doesn't matter. My max dodge does not go up with MtF, nor does dodge go past this value. Tested today.

https://youtu.be/Tu4uVFPwunQ

Photo 1: Standing Dodge (20%)
Photo 2: Dodge with MtF (3 ranks) at 5 (top left icon) Dodge=29% and MaxDodge remains at 29% (should now be 30% dodge and 39% max dodge)
Photo 3: With MtF at 5, and 3 Shadow charges, Dodge=29% and MaxDodge=29%. (should now be 33% dodge and 39% max dodge)

Shadowscale Armor (Max Dex = 19)
Saphire of Armored Agility: Max Dex =21
Light Armor Masteryx3: MaxDex = 27
Guild Buff: Max Dex =29

As brzytki pointed out, you really have to calculate all three of dodge, max dodge, and max dex bonus. Any one of them will limit your actual dodge. It's really cumbersome imo, especially when we have abilities that raise one or two of those, but not all three. That's why I have the breakdown of all three in my build. I had to do that to keep track of it myself.


This same argument was made for giving Dex assassins assassinate. It has resulted in zero new build diversity. Dex-based assassin using Acrobat (with 1/2 damage below 1/2 HP), shadow dodge, no mercy, and haste boost means that 1 option is totally superior to all other options.

The devs used the argument that dex based would increase build diversity. Many players, myself included, pointed out that would not be the case and would simply replace the one superior int option with the one superior dex option, which is what happened.


The second 2 pally/18 rogue is an option, assassin will no longer play like an assassin. (+8 to all saves, extra PRR/MRR, etc), with all of their weaknesses removed.

I'm not sure 18 rogue/2 palaldin would kill the pure assassin build. 10 melee power and 4 sneak attack dice is a good bit of dps from the capstone. 2 paladin doesn't offer PRR/MRR, only saves and up to 4 lay on hands, depending on whether you spend AP on them. You need 3 paladin to use defensive stance, which then means losing the level 18 core, which is a good chunk of dps. Saves on a pure assassin can reach sufficient levels already, not perfect, but still good enough that a paladin splash isn't a must-have. So the choice between pure and 18/2 is a choice between offense and defense. It wouldn't be a definitive choice imo.


You can go to any other class if you don't want a class with both strengths and weaknesses. Let's not ruin assassin in the name of build diversity.

The level 18/20 cores offer enough dps to be compelling options. As I said, I'm not advocating so many DCs available that assassins end up in the same situation as swashbucklers where only a 5 level splash can assassinate just as good as a pure build. As long as assassination DCs remain tied to rogue level, and not too many other sources of DCs are added, then I don't think we will end up in that situation. I don't think a heavily splashed build should be able to assassinate well for the reasons you mention, but I also don't see anything about an 18/2 or 17/3 that would kill off pure builds. I'm also not the best multiclasser though, so maybe I'm not seeing some obvious synergy somewhere.

EDIT: I should add that Turbine does not have a good track record with finding the right balance, so it is probably better to err on the side of caution and not add DCs instead of run the risk of Turbine swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. I think DCs can be added to increase build diversity without destroying the assassin as we know it today, but I do have my doubts about whether or not Turbine can pull that off effectively.

[nokowi]

As brzytki pointed out, you really have to calculate all three of dodge, max dodge, and max dex bonus. Any one of them will limit your actual dodge. It's really cumbersome imo, especially when we have abilities that raise one or two of those, but not all three. That's why I have the breakdown of all three in my build. I had to do that to keep track of it myself.



The devs used the argument that dex based would increase build diversity. Many players, myself included, pointed out that would not be the case and would simply replace the one superior int option with the one superior dex option, which is what happened.



I'm not sure 18 rogue/2 palaldin would kill the pure assassin build. 10 melee power and 4 sneak attack dice is a good bit of dps from the capstone. 2 paladin doesn't offer PRR/MRR, only saves and up to 4 lay on hands, depending on whether you spend AP on them. You need 3 paladin to use defensive stance, which then means losing the level 18 core, which is a good chunk of dps. Saves on a pure assassin can reach sufficient levels already, not perfect, but still good enough that a paladin splash isn't a must-have. So the choice between pure and 18/2 is a choice between offense and defense. It wouldn't be a definitive choice imo.



The level 18/20 cores offer enough dps to be compelling options. As I said, I'm not advocating so many DCs available that assassins end up in the same situation as swashbucklers where only a 5 level splash can assassinate just as good as a pure build. As long as assassination DCs remain tied to rogue level, and not too many other sources of DCs are added, then I don't think we will end up in that situation. I don't think a heavily splashed build should be able to assassinate well for the reasons you mention, but I also don't see anything about an 18/2 or 17/3 that would kill off pure builds. I'm also not the best multiclasser though, so maybe I'm not seeing some obvious synergy somewhere.

EDIT: I should add that Turbine does not have a good track record with finding the right balance, so it is probably better to err on the side of caution and not add DCs instead of run the risk of Turbine swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. I think DCs can be added to increase build diversity without destroying the assassin as we know it today, but I do have my doubts about whether or not Turbine can pull that off effectively.

Ya I didn't realize I didn't have points in Lithe any more. and I was confused because of a bug (Light Armor Mastery and Lithe not stacking properly) that produced a similar effect in the past. II thought my maxdex was higher than 29. Thanks for the help!

My point is that there will be one build that is superior to all others the moment you increase DC enough to allow multiclassing with no-fail assassinate (whether it is 2 pally or not). We used to have valid race options of Human/Drow/Halfling, now we have just Halfling. We used to have two different builds (DEx: better dps/survivability vs Int: assassinate) and now we have one. So we went from 3 racial options and two build options to one race and one build. Add to that that Dex acrobat is so much superior to Dex trap use (which is marginally useful in new content), and we have much less build diversity (it's nearly zero now) than we did prior to the change.

I feel that DC's should only be modified where they are needed (new content=challenging, go find new gear), and that players should spend time talking about how to balance current rogue options instead of asking for universal DC increases, which will cause even more balance issues. Given that +hide/2 to SA will give Halfling Dex rogues +18 extra damage (scaled by 1.5*Melee Power) over Int rogues, Int rogues would need a big boost to even make them a competitive option.

All I can say is "I told you so" to devs. It would have been far more balanced to bump Dex rogues DPS or toughness a bit instead of giving them assassinate. Heck, the legendary feats may have done the trick without any changes at all.

[SableShadow]

You can go to any other class if you don't want a class with both strengths and weaknesses. Let's not ruin assassin in the name of build diversity.



EDIT: I should add that Turbine does not have a good track record with finding the right balance, so it is probably better to err on the side of caution and not add DCs instead of run the risk of Turbine swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. I think DCs can be added to increase build diversity without destroying the assassin as we know it today, but I do have my doubts about whether or not Turbine can pull that off effectively.

Completely off topic, but this is one of the things I like about the rogue community: we generally don't follow the 'gimme moar moar moar!' you hear from some of the other class fanatics, and want very much to preserve the "rogue playstyle" above pure power. Then again, I'm a bit biased.

[nokowi]

Completely off topic, but this is one of the things I like about the rogue community: we generally don't follow the 'gimme moar moar moar!' you hear from some of the other class fanatics, and want very much to preserve the "rogue playstyle" above pure power. Then again, I'm a bit biased.

And rogue is one of the best loved and most played classes. I would hope dev's could learn who to listen to for balancing the majority of classes (its fine to have 1-2 easy options - players will generally only play the easiest of these anyway --> I refer to bard once again Pally > bard, why play bard?).

What will you give X up of to get Y?

Balancing classes is that simple, and each class should have different strengths and weaknesses. Players that want all of X and Y should be ignored beyond the 1-2 easy-cheese classes.

[CThruTheEgo]

My point is that there will be one build that is superior to all others the moment you increase DC enough to allow multiclassing with no-fail assassinate (whether it is 2 pally or not). We used to have valid race options of Human/Drow/Halfling, now we have just Halfling. We used to have two different builds (DEx: better dps/survivability vs Int: assassinate) and now we have one. So we went from 3 racial options and two build options to one race and one build. Add to that that Dex acrobat is so much superior to Dex trap use (which is marginally useful in new content), and we have much less build diversity (it's nearly zero now) than we did prior to the change.

Well, I would disagree that we had that much build diversity before the revamp. Halfling and dex based simply were not competitive options imo. It was human/drow int based before the revamp, now it's human/halfling dex based after the revamp.


I feel that DC's should only be modified where they are needed (new content=challenging, go find new gear)

I personally don't like that option because I don't particularly enjoy grinding for gear. I play multiple characters so keeping up with rapidly changing gear sets doesn't mix well with my limited playtime. This is less of a problem for those who only play one character.

Sable is right, though, we have gotten off topic, so I'll leave my comments at that.

[sjbb87]

And rogue is one of the best loved and most played classes. I would hope dev's could learn who to listen to for balancing the majority of classes (its fine to have 1-2 easy options - players will generally only play the easiest of these anyway --> I refer to bard once again Pally > bard, why play bard?).

What will you give X up of to get Y?

Balancing classes is that simple, and each class should have different strengths and weaknesses. Players that want all of X and Y should be ignored beyond the 1-2 easy-cheese classes.

Players who play only with the "strong" classes are stupid. Typical other MMO. Thankfully DDO not have so many .... (I know before the nerf had many paladins, but I will skip this part).

[maddong]

How about throwing some spell critical damage into all of them. As it is I think most casters are taking fire regardless of their chosen element.

How about increasing water to 600 spell points to make it interesting (along with improving epic mental toughness).

[Mojo_d]

Scion of Limbo is a passive that cycles automatically.

This seems great but given the fact that you cant predict what mobs you have to face and time it to be of good use,most of the times it will be something like tea with the queen or shiradi procs,meaning you will have a nice surprise but will not be able to rely on it.So I would suggest to make these buffs clickable with an 8 minute cooldown.That way a person can use the right boost at the right time,and still have 8minute cd afterwards.I mean,confetti is great and being able to click it from time to time(lets say in a nice completion of a raid :P ) would be nice,but when Im swarmed by 4-5 mobs hitting me,I'd prefer having the option to boost my defenses by 30prr.So to sum up,all clickies,since there are 8 of them,will have an 8minute cooldown,each one 1 minute long,being able to use them when needed and not randomly.

[Nightmanis]

This seems great but given the fact that you cant predict what mobs you have to face and time it to be of good use,most of the times it will be something like tea with the queen or shiradi procs,meaning you will have a nice surprise but will not be able to rely on it.So I would suggest to make these buffs clickable with an 8 minute cooldown.That way a person can use the right boost at the right time,and still have 8minute cd afterwards.I mean,confetti is great and being able to click it from time to time(lets say in a nice completion of a raid :P ) would be nice,but when Im swarmed by 4-5 mobs hitting me,I'd prefer having the option to boost my defenses by 30prr.So to sum up,all clickies,since there are 8 of them,will have an 8minute cooldown,each one 1 minute long,being able to use them when needed and not randomly.

Having the ability to choose which you want makes limbo far too powerful. It's better as a random cycle.

[Mojo_d]

Having the ability to choose which you want makes limbo far too powerful. It's better as a random cycle.

yeah maybe so.but then again as a random cycle,its becoming the opposite.I can't see why taking for anything but for fun.In addition to my suggestion,it can be,when you activate one of the buffs,the rest of em go on cooldown for 1minute,while the activated one goes on cooldown for 8mins,etc.You just put the buffs in order,its not that too powerful,I find it more useful that way,maybe Im wrong :P
But I believe it would be awesome to be in a situation and activate accordingly the right one.Like when you enter battle activate 40melee/ranged or 16doublestrike/doubleshot,when mobs surround you get your defenses a bit up with 30prr,and if things get ugly you back up with dodge and heal amp,and if you deal with any rangers or bats have 20dr active.something like that can make the combat more intense,having to measure things and act accordingly,instead of auto-attacking and praying for the right buff the next minute,you are being kept busy the whole time.Less luck I guess more strategy,something like that.

[nokowi]

Well, I would disagree that we had that much build diversity before the revamp. Halfling and dex based simply were not competitive options imo. It was human/drow int based before the revamp, now it's human/halfling dex based after the revamp.



I personally don't like that option because I don't particularly enjoy grinding for gear. I play multiple characters so keeping up with rapidly changing gear sets doesn't mix well with my limited playtime. This is less of a problem for those who only play one character.



I was referring to Halfling/Drow/Human as all viable Int Options, with some serious choices between mechanic and acrobat and race. Now we have Dex halfling with acrobat. I requested another option (Dex with improvements that did not include assassinate). I am only referring the melee assassins in this thread.

You would be obtaining Epic GS ingredients regardless of whether you made an assassinate item. It's wouldn't be any extra grind, nor would it require you to re-slot all your gear (even though you do seem to enjoy this exercise). That being said, I am requesting a new bonus (+4 to +6) to assassinate as a crafted option on Epic GS as a way to increase DC where it is needed. This belongs in this thread, because it is related to adding DC in the legendary feats. Players would then have the option of slotting some DC with Epic GS, choosing a legendary feat, or both (or neither). You might choose both if you dont like to wait 6 seconds to assassinate, and you might only need 1 if you prefer to max out your MtF for the dodge/MP benefits. This would introduce both play and build choices, instead of requiring everyone to choose 1 option to be effective. I also would like to see MtF Assassinate DC to stack up to 12 seconds, as this would offer many additional styles.

Current Max DC 77-78
+4 Legendary Feat
+4 Epic GS
+6 MtF for 12 sec

Max DC = 91-92 (some mobs already have 100 so even this would not be no fail) This will be on-par with what casters will have.

[zaidm271981]

As others have stated, adding +4 max Dex as well will make this applicable to tactics users in armor (Bards, Fighters, etc). As for the +4 Assassinate DCs, mixed opinion. This suddenly makes it a serious consideration for Assassin Rogues, but now is pulling them away from their Ethereal plane. I would think putting Assassinated DCs in there would be perfect. While I still would prefer to see the Assassinate moved to Ethereal and something else added to bolster Astral (such as Vorpal 19-20) so it fits classes better rather than spreading, still a solid change.

I also can confirm that there is no "hard cap" to light armor dodge - it is as high as you can get your max Dex and max dodge - I had 32% on my Bard in light armor, my Rogue had 35% in light armor, and if they were to add to Max Dex, it would not matter what armor type you had (unless they add a restriction), you'd gain 4 more dodge.

Astral plane needs an actual dps or prr boost for monks, instead of mollycoddling rogues all the time. They already got their enhancement pass which provides assassinate dcs and melee power. Monks have no such thing yet....They dont have qp dc boosts from their tree or item and nothing in the way of melee power from trees...and attaining 60 is difficult. Monks need something and that's the reason why we are seeing far fewer of them in ddo than ever before. It's absolutely ridiculous, you bust your gut hitting 70 wisdom and still can't scratch what rogues and the like can do..please can u provide a viable dps boost to the Astral plane feat instead? And also, is a monk enhancement pass coming up anytime in 2016, please steelstar?
We would really appreciate some monk friendly boosts to anything, especially with reaper difficulty coming up....
It's not that I don't give a **** about the legion of rogues we have because I like rogues (honest), but please make it +2 assassinate and move it to ethereal...that would please everyone because they already have attainable dcs close to the 80s

Cue the stream of indignant posts because I dared to suggest that rogues are riding the waves of power at the moment with their dps..

[CThruTheEgo]

Astral plane needs an actual dps or prr boost for monks, instead of mollycoddling rogues all the time. They already got their enhancement pass which provides assassinate dcs and melee power. Monks have no such thing yet....They dont have qp dc boosts from their tree or item and nothing in the way of melee power from trees...and attaining 60 is difficult. Monks need something and that's the reason why we are seeing far fewer of them in ddo than ever before. It's absolutely ridiculous, you bust your gut hitting 70 wisdom and still can't scratch what rogues and the like can do..please can u provide a viable dps boost to the Astral plane feat instead? And also, is a monk enhancement pass coming up anytime in 2016, please steelstar?
We would really appreciate some monk friendly boosts to anything, especially with reaper difficulty coming up....
It's not that I don't give a **** about the legion of rogues we have because I like rogues (honest), but please make it +2 assassinate and move it to ethereal...that would please everyone because they already have attainable dcs close to the 80s

Cue the stream of indignant posts because I dared to suggest that rogues are riding the waves of power at the moment with their dps..

/indignation on

It's not about the DCs we can reach now. It's about the DCs we will need to reach in newer content. That's why we are asking for more DCs - to make sure a defining ability remains viable and doesn't get left behind.

I agree that monks need a lot of love and have been largely ignored by devs for a long time, but your anger is misplaced. Rogue, specifically assassin, players tend to be a very vocal community. Don't throw us under the bus just because devs from a long time ago decided to code monks in so complicated a manner that it isn't worth the time to fix them today. Blame Turbine for that. :D

/indignation off

Oh, and welcome to the forums zaidm271981. In case it wasn't completely obvious, this post is intentionally sarcastic.

[zaidm271981]

/indignation on

It's not about the DCs we can reach now. It's about the DCs we will need to reach in newer content. That's why we are asking for more DCs - to make sure a defining ability remains viable and doesn't get left behind.

I agree that monks need a lot of love and have been largely ignored by devs for a long time, but your anger is misplaced. Rogue, specifically assassin, players tend to be a very vocal community. Don't throw us under the bus just because devs from a long time ago decided to code monks in so complicated a manner that it isn't worth the time to fix them today. Blame Turbine for that. :D

/indignation off

Oh, and welcome to the forums zaidm271981. In case it wasn't completely obvious, this post is intentionally sarcastic.

Lol thanks kindly for the welcome.
I wasn't angry...more mildly irritated. A) Because I do feel like monks are being ignored, and B) because I feel like I'm the only one raising this issue. I don't mean to throw rogues under the bus, I'm sorry I came across like that, just merely stating that they are powerful already and still getting support of all kinds. Perhaps I'm a little envious that fellow monks arent as vocal or devs aren't as supportive to us - scratch that...GIVING NO SUPPORT whatsoever. As is, monks are woeful right now, and frankly only good killers in eh content, not to mention their fragility in EE. This needs to be remedied in a similar way to what u guys are proposing for assassin.
You want to give Int for attack and damage? Fine then give monks wis to attack and damage...that should be fair right?
Usually I like to read forum posts and hope in silence that a degree of parity can be established between certain classes...but this thread has forced my hand, and I hope that something is done by the devs soon. If it is the coding then wipe it and replace it so monks aren't useless anymore...

[CThruTheEgo]

Lol thanks kindly for the welcome.
I wasn't angry...more mildly irritated. A) Because I do feel like monks are being ignored, and B) because I feel like I'm the only one raising this issue. I don't mean to throw rogues under the bus, I'm sorry I came across like that, just merely stating that they are powerful already and still getting support of all kinds. Perhaps I'm a little envious that fellow monks arent as vocal or devs aren't as supportive to us - scratch that...GIVING NO SUPPORT whatsoever. As is, monks are woeful right now, and frankly only good killers in eh content, not to mention their fragility in EE. This needs to be remedied in a similar way to what u guys are proposing for assassin.
You want to give Int for attack and damage? Fine then give monks wis to attack and damage...that should be fair right?
Usually I like to read forum posts and hope in silence that a degree of parity can be established between certain classes...but this thread has forced my hand, and I hope that something is done by the devs soon. If it is the coding then wipe it and replace it so monks aren't useless anymore...

LOL, no worries. While there is some outcry about the state of monks, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much as is warranted by their currently sad state. It probably will take a great deal of complete recoding to fix monks. I will say that it's difficult to cater these feats to the classes that have not yet been revamped, particularly monks who need a complete overhaul. Maybe it would have been a good idea to finish the revamps before raising the level cap, but what do I know.

[Jalgratas]

[B][URL="https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467837-Update-29-Feats-Overview"]


Scion of Elysium

Summoned creatures gain +25 PRR and MRR
Summoned creatures gain +20 MP, RP, and USP
Summoned creatures gain +100% Fortification
Summoned creatures gain a 5% chance to ignore incoming damage entirely. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.




Im going to go wild and make an assumption that feat will work similar to augment summoning/druid past life in that it works on summoned creatures and also hirelings, premapets etc.

I propose swapping the 5% miss chance with the striding IV from druid pet enhancement line. Totally personal opinion but proper amount of striding would truly have a legendary effect on summons/charms/hirelings usability/fun factor over the puny miss chance. Especially when keeping in mind dominate spells exist. It would be a good trade off as taking the feat would cost you the chance of having the +enhancement DC feat.

[Enderoc]

Any idea when this will be released so I know whether to keep investing in spellcraft on my Pally or go ahead and do it on an ER?

[zaidm271981]

LOL, no worries. While there is some outcry about the state of monks, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much as is warranted by their currently sad state. It probably will take a great deal of complete recoding to fix monks. I will say that it's difficult to cater these feats to the classes that have not yet been revamped, particularly monks who need a complete overhaul. Maybe it would have been a good idea to finish the revamps before raising the level cap, but what do I know.

So then the first step is to take assassinate and put it in ethereal.
And give Astral plane a general dps increase...increased crit range or vorpal 19-20 as mentioned before..
Then everyone's a winner...

[GeoffWatson]

Lol thanks kindly for the welcome.
I wasn't angry...more mildly irritated. A) Because I do feel like monks are being ignored, and B) because I feel like I'm the only one raising this issue. I don't mean to throw rogues under the bus, I'm sorry I came across like that, just merely stating that they are powerful already and still getting support of all kinds. Perhaps I'm a little envious that fellow monks arent as vocal or devs aren't as supportive to us - scratch that...GIVING NO SUPPORT whatsoever. As is, monks are woeful right now, and frankly only good killers in eh content, not to mention their fragility in EE. This needs to be remedied in a similar way to what u guys are proposing for assassin.
You want to give Int for attack and damage? Fine then give monks wis to attack and damage...that should be fair right?
Usually I like to read forum posts and hope in silence that a degree of parity can be established between certain classes...but this thread has forced my hand, and I hope that something is done by the devs soon. If it is the coding then wipe it and replace it so monks aren't useless anymore...

Monks have been ignored by the devs for a long time.
Most monk fans have given up on complaining.
Lots of enhancements, items, and destiny abilities don't work with unarmed, and the devs take the lazy way out by claiming it's WAI rather than fixing them.

[Silverleafeon]

Striding for summons/hires has serious merit.

[nokowi]

Monks have been ignored by the devs for a long time.
Most monk fans have given up on complaining.
Lots of enhancements, items, and destiny abilities don't work with unarmed, and the devs take the lazy way out by claiming it's WAI rather than fixing them.

Monks will likely have a pass. Put constructive comments (how to fix monk) into a thread and apply for the Players Council.

[zaidm271981]

Monks will likely have a pass. Put constructive comments (how to fix monk) into a thread and apply for the Players Council.

I hope so...
Well so far I got:

1) The option for wis for attack and maybe damage;
2) Capstones need work obviously...ninja spy crit range increase moved to an earlier core with +2 DEX/WIS and another feature replacing vorpal in the core?
3) I sincerely believe touch of death has to be improved or replaced...its too impotent for a tier 5 ability, and considering what you have to invest for its prerequisites.
4) Tomb of Jade for a tier 4 ability should have its cooldown reduced slightly...maybe 45 seconds?
5) The core dmg bypasses for shintao to work for all ki weapons?
6) Perhaps some ranged options for 18-20 lvl monk archers to be viable?
7) Perhaps Void Strike to be a capstone and for it to work on a 19-20 roll?
8) Some available points to increase qp dcs in any of the trees?
9) Stun dcs in shintao? Better tanking options in shintao?
10) Perhaps shining star needs to be looked at again?
11) increase potencies of henshin mystic SPELL - LIKES ?
12) "No mercy" should be 1 pt per lvl
13) Prr/Mrr enhancements in all trees in addition to those already in shintao, and called "mystic field"
14) Mystic shields would be more potent and higher tier...and damage resist fields which work while ur not meditating.
15) For God's sake, monk buffs which actually last longer than a minute or two...

[DrawingGuy]

Monks will likely have a pass. Put constructive comments (how to fix monk) into a thread and apply for the Players Council.

I have actually already done that: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/461189-Monk-Pass-suggestions

There are some refinements I'd make to this, such as adding Action Boosts, but until the Monk Pass is actually in the works, I've let this sit.

I also applied for Player's Council last year... and didn't make it despite years and thousands of hours of play along with dozens of my guildies vouching for me. Some of us our voices are limited to the forums and hoping a dev will look at the post. They're better here than most places, and I'm hoping they took a look at my pass suggestions.

[zaidm271981]

I have actually already done that: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/461189-Monk-Pass-suggestions

There are some refinements I'd make to this, such as adding Action Boosts, but until the Monk Pass is actually in the works, I've let this sit.

I also applied for Player's Council last year... and didn't make it despite years and thousands of hours of play along with dozens of my guildies vouching for me. Some of us our voices are limited to the forums and hoping a dev will look at the post. They're better here than most places, and I'm hoping they took a look at my pass suggestions.

Some similarities...eg tomb of Jade. ...fine effort sir - I salute you
And yea wisdom for attack and damage is way overdue

[Saekee]

the elemental Scions should feature a special attribute for monks based on the eponymous stance. Scion of Earth: When in earth stance, ...

[Nightmanis]

the elemental Scions should feature a special attribute for monks based on the eponymous stance. Scion of Earth: When in earth stance, ...

I could get behind this. Make the feats like a more powerful version of the Jidz bracers.

Absolutely fantastic idea.

[nokowi]

I have actually already done that: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/461189-Monk-Pass-suggestions

There are some refinements I'd make to this, such as adding Action Boosts, but until the Monk Pass is actually in the works, I've let this sit.

I also applied for Player's Council last year... and didn't make it despite years and thousands of hours of play along with dozens of my guildies vouching for me. Some of us our voices are limited to the forums and hoping a dev will look at the post. They're better here than most places, and I'm hoping they took a look at my pass suggestions.

Devs read all posts that don't devolve into garbage, so your voice is heard. They rarely respond on the main forums unless you respond to an official dev topic/post. If the post is in a constructive monk thread, dev's can go back and look at the information when they need it. If it is lost in the middle of a Legendary feat thread, or lost among a chain LOL'S and personal attacks, the chances of them finding this info when they need it are much less.

When you see an official thread for monk, gather all your ideas there and try to have a discussion (where possible). Feel free to start a new thread that summarizes all the findings of prior monk threads (not just your input). List areas of agreement and disagreement and try to avoid personal debates (just list the various options). If you get onto the PC in 2016, you will see that balancing and overhauling a class across the range of character options and player opinions is no easy task. There are reasons why all the class passes are not yet done.

[nokowi]

the elemental Scions should feature a special attribute for monks based on the eponymous stance. Scion of Earth: When in earth stance, ...

I like this idea too. Remember that there may be programming involved, so this may or may not be an acceptable option.

[Pnumbra]

Scion of Arborea
+20 Melee and Ranged Power usefull to all melee's and ranged toons
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power usefull to elderich knight
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon good for everyone (casters, ranged and melee
+4 to Fortitude Saves awesome for arcane casters since those saves suck

all in all, this just screams eld knight to me

don't get me wrong, the 20 mp is awesome, the other attributes in there could have been replaced with mrr to close the gaping wound the armor down update left behind.



This is a singularly inept attempt to add value to EK/ES arcane melee types. Why doesn't this feat offer melee and ranged attacks do 2-20 force damage that scales with spell power? There are so few sources of FORCE spell power in the game. The 20pts offered will have little affect in making force damage really viable. Granted, the Sorcerer's force spell power is better than the warlocks.

The ES Warlock will probably take Celestia over this feat thus causing an outlier in performance...forumites will yell OP even more, which is false in epic levels. Changing force to evil damage creates other significant issues. Where is the balance for FORCE spell power?

[Astarii]

Scion of Limbo is a passive that cycles automatically.
Between the new base-epic-level bonuses to Summons (which everyone will have), Epic Augment Summoning, and Scion of Elysium, there are a lot of new buffs for summoned creatures in this update. We'll be keeping an eye on them overall. These bonuses certainly don't fix every issue that summons/hires/pets have, but they are meant to help them.


I sure hope so...

******
Just for the fun of it, I TR'd my 3x completionist (heroic,iconic,epic) and did one build 15 Wiz/5 Warlock to try and maximize the skeleton knight with the new enhancements, and the other Artifice/warlock and when I hit epics, the pets could not even handle staying alive for any meaningful amount of time. They where fully loaded, and yes Augment summons was taken. Personally, I wish there was just a Summoner Tree like the Harper Tree, and have you remove ALL summon related things from the other trees. It does clog others up, and really if someone wanted to try and do summons its currently a waste. People are forced to be a Single class if they want to be any type of summoner despite the number of enhancement points one drops on them or feats one acquires. BTW, it was kinda fun having a greensteel repeating x-bow summoning oozes and was fun knowing some of the summons & creature stats where godly, but disappointing (as expected) knowing that I could not make a manageable multi-classed summoned. anyways, i'm sure i'll have ppl say, that's not the case, but i'll challenge you to have the max lvl of any one class be 15, and whatever for the alternates and have a viable summoner (I was going to do 12, but I broke that rule myself). one other thing to point out.... lets look at all the classes that can summon, and the ones that can't.

Can Summon:
Wizard,Sorc,Cleric,Fvs,Druid,Artificer,Bard, Ranger, Warlock (9 Classes) - Wizards can't equit, but 45% Double strike is pretty cool, and same with the DR. yet alone the Hezrou can be fun.

Can not and should not.
Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Paladin & Rogue ( 5 classes)

The reason I bring this up is 2/3 of the classes CAN summon worthless things, will the be fixed or are we going to continue getting horrid non-adequate creatures? Maybe perhaps link there life, total level, dps, stats, leveling them or something to the caster...I really don't know, but am hoping something happens positive in the arena.
******

[Enderoc]

Surely min/max players wouldnt take Limbo. They would take the best from the above. Limbo is for people who want to have random fun.

Actually that is the absolute best feat to take for Arcane Archers....

[CrackedIce]

Where is the added spell DC to limbo? Since Limbo gets random buff of generally what's available in other legendary feats, I do not see where the dc bonus is in the cycle.

[barecm]

[B][URL="https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467837-Update-29-Feats-Overview"]







Scion of the Plane of Earth

+4 to the DCs of Conjuration spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
+20 PRR
+10 Acid Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)




Scion of the Plane of Air

+4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
+4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap
+10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)




Scion of the Plane of Fire

+25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
+10 PRR, +10 MRR
+10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)




Scion of the Plane of Water

+200 Maximum Spell Points
+20 MRR
+10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)


[/LIST]

How will these affect the AA Elemental Arrows? Specifically, does the added elemental damage stack with the elemental arrows or is it a separate, non spell power affected damage type?

[EllisDee37]

How will these affect the AA Elemental Arrows? Specifically, does the added elemental damage stack with the elemental arrows or is it a separate, non spell power affected damage type?It says in the descriptions that they scale with spellpower.

[barecm]

It says in the descriptions that they scale with spellpower.

But does it add to Elemental arrows or a separate attack

[Krelar]

But does it add to Elemental arrows or a separate attack

I would assume it's added separately but, as long as they both scale with spell power the same, it wouldn't actually matter.

[cru121]

I haven't really followed all discussions, but I noticed that the feat list does not include anything for buffing others. Something like bardic chants / paladin auras / enlightened spirit auras, etc; basically stuff that makes your party perform better.

The aura benefit should be obviously weaker than individual legendary feats, but as it'd affect all party members, it should be worth it.

I assume some players enjoy a more supportive role.

[Jon_Irenicus]

Personally I think that these feats aren't legendary enough. As an ambassador for sorcerers and wizards, I would prefer that Turbine adds more epic spells, preferably:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Vengeful_Gaze_of_God

More could be found here:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Epic_Spells

Maybe add some sort of negative aspect of using them like do 2d100 points worth of damage to the caster every use so that it makes fights more interesting.
In addition, how about making summoned monsters worth summoning for? Their DPS is bad and I mean bad.

These current implemented legendary feats are likely not to help casters do more damage in any way :eek:

[SirValentine]

(https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467837-Update-29-Feats-Overview)

Scion of the Shadowfell

+4 to the DCs of Necromancy spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
+40 Negative Spell Power
+20 Negative Amp (assuming you take healing from Negative)
Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal you for 1d6 Positive damage, or 1d6 Negative damage if you are Undead.




So no additional thought to changing Scion of the Shadowfell?

Pure Negative spell power, why? By lore, it should at least feature both Positive and Negative. And most of the other Scion feats give a fair bit of Universal in addition to their plane-lore-specific types.

Negative amp might be nice for, and pure Negative spell power OK for, Pale Masters, but Pale Masters are not the only Necromancers.

[Iriale]

So no additional thought to changing Scion of the Shadowfell?

Pure Negative spell power, why? By lore, it should at least feature both Positive and Negative. And most of the other Scion feats give a fair bit of Universal in addition to their plane-lore-specific types.

Negative amp might be nice for, and pure Negative spell power OK for, Pale Masters, but Pale Masters are not the only Necromancers.
pure Negative spell power is NOT ok for Pale Masters. Pale masters need other spell powers for to kill orange and red nameds and deathwarded mobs, same than other necromancers and other spellcasters.

This feat should have universal spellpower, the same as other feats.

[Talon_Dragonsbane]

Does Limbo also add +20 dodge cap when it gets the +20 dodge/+40 H Amp?

[Mortas]

I was testing SotEP on live and noticed one of my skills didn't seem to benefit. As an example, search dropped from 104 to 103. So, knowing things happen, logged off and back on. Now it's back to 104. Shouldn't that 104 be 108 or is this feat tied to something like an equipment bonus and that something is capping it ? I'd hope this feat is a simple straight stacking mechanic. How is this supposed to work ?

[FalexiaSutter]

Scion of Elysium
Summoned creatures gain +25 PRR and MRR
Summoned creatures gain +20 MP, RP, and USP
Summoned creatures gain +100% Fortification
Summoned creatures gain a 5% chance to ignore incoming damage entirely. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.

I doubt anyone has used this feat, but I am kind of curious about it. Does it only work on summoned creatures as it says in the description? Or does it also work on pets, hirelings, and charmed minions like the other augment summoning feats?

[S3R3N1T7]

-----> hound xoriat

Legendary raid

[Silverleafeon]

I doubt anyone has used this feat, but I am kind of curious about it. Does it only work on summoned creatures as it says in the description? Or does it also work on pets, hirelings, and charmed minions like the other augment summoning feats?

I does work on Druid Wolves as far as I can tell.

This is the only summons type other than arty dog that has a character sheet available to check, and the fort does increase when you take it.


If you are asking if the bonus symbol shows up on pets, hirelings, and charmed minions like augment summoning, the answer should be yes. I double checked and bug reported anything that did not during lamania testing.

[FalexiaSutter]

I does work on Druid Wolves as far as I can tell.

This is the only summons type other than arty dog that has a character sheet available to check, and the fort does increase when you take it.


If you are asking if the bonus symbol shows up on pets, hirelings, and charmed minions like augment summoning, the answer should be yes. I double checked and bug reported anything that did not during lamania testing.

Thanks. I tested it out myself and it does work on charmed minions and regular summons.

[DrWily]

I know Mechanus' Master Recon shares a cooldown with Scribing Communion, but what's the normal cooldown on it?

[scottyboy1979]

wondering if anyone knows if activates because im working my way back to lev 30 and prob gonna gave around 500 elec spell power 40 crit and would be thinking with it scaling and extra 2 percent damage on top of that with enhancement would rock! thanks for any info you have.