Update 29 Feats: Overview

[Steelstar]

Hey folks!

As you've seen from Vargouille's thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467833-Update-29-Level-30-Overview), you will have some new advancement options with Update 29. There are quite a few new Feats coming, and in order to keep things organized, we've split the wide variety of Feats into three different threads.

Level 29:
At level 29, you get your third Epic Destiny feat. Like the one you get at level 28, you can pick from any of the previous Epic Destiny feats you qualify for, as well as from a list of new options only available at level 29.
See this thread for details on new Epic Destiny feats! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467840-Update-29-Feats-Epic-Destiny-Feats)

Level 30:
At level 30, you get a standard feat slot, per the normal feat progression.
You also get your choice of one Legendary Feat. These powerful feats have a variety of effects and a Planar theme.
See this thread for details on Legendary feats! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467838-Update-29-Feats-Legendary-Feats)

Other Feats & Changes:
In addition to the level cap increase and its related feats, some new general feats are being added into lower Epic levels to provide additional choices.
See this thread for details on those! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/467842-Update-29-Feats-Other-Feats)

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):


+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR

[Atremus]

Steel,

Is the plan for the SP discount to stack with items? If so, thank you!

Quick pass: I like it. Will re-read and comment after my brain is sorted (the celestial one has me all happy)

[DANTEIL]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


So this part is really interesting (I use hirelings/summons a lot).

Has any further thought been given to adjusting how vulnerable hirelings are to Champion debuffs etc?

[Blastyswa]

+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


I like the spell changes; 1% might be a little conservative, but spellpower is a good number and 10% cost reduction at level 30, while not likely making Metamagic non-sla spammers very viable, will make them better.

[Avenir]

I'm really looking forward to this update!

[Eddexp]

Divine Spells,Turn Undeaths and Deitys need some revamp/updade/upgrade too.

[Silverleafeon]

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):


+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells



Thank you for listening on these two requests!!!



And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR



Muchly appreciated, that will help a lot, along with the Legendary feat option for pet lover love, thank you!!!

[Silverleafeon]

I like the spell changes; 1% might be a little conservative, but spellpower is a good number and 10% cost reduction at level 30, while not likely making Metamagic non-sla spammers very viable, will make them better.

Yeah, maybe we can get a 15% discount item someday soon (currently at 10%) to combine for 25% total.
I am assuming the item and epic feat discounts are different types and stack?

[maddong]

Nice work!

[Claver]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


Nice!

[SirValentine]

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):


+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells



Good.

I assume the SP cost discount stacks with the Enhancement bonus reductions available in Epic Destinies and on current gear, right?

[GroundhogDay]

Sorry but i don't care for any of the changes as i see them, i don't think any of my toons would want/need any of this.

[Vanhooger]

I still not sure how caster wil handle long quest/raid with small amount of shrine (toee) or no shrine (some of the latest raid).

The biggest problem is that maximize & empower is now mandatory on any blue bar, so this imply that mana is burnt very fast and you add in another feat that burn it even faster.

Those feat should apply to class that are depending only on they're bule bar or you will make Warlock even more OP then they are now. At least that are my thoughts.

[Faltout]

I still not sure how caster wil handle long quest/raid with small amount of shrine (toee) or no shrine (some of the latest raid).

The biggest problem is that maximize & empower is now mandatory on any blue bar, so this imply that mana is burnt very fast and you add in another feat that burn it even faster.

Those feat should apply to class that are depending only on they're bule bar or you will make Warlock even more OP then they are now. At least that are my thoughts.
Let's not just throw stuff out there without some testing first. The new feats proposed make a lot of changes favoring a caster. Removing maximum caster level means that this puny little 1st level spell like cold ray that cost a little and did little damage now will deal more damage than polar ray. Spamming that spell will save you a ton of sp while doing some significant damage.
Also consider the spell crit damage increases, the spell power being added and possibly new loot that will further increase caster levels. Maximizing and empowering cold ray is totally useless (since it costs too low sp and you have too much spell power already).

[btolson]

1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


I don't think this is really going to change much of anything. SP reductions don't apply to SLAs, which represent the bulk of casting, and rounding error means you're often not going to get the full benefit. A 10% discount on regular spells only is likely going to equate to an overall reduction of about 3-4% when accounting for those factors.


I'm not really sure how to make use of this information right now, but a wizard gains 9% more SP between levels 19 and 20. A sorc gains 8%. I know we can't hand out SP with epic commoner levels because giving thousands of sp to barbs would not be a good idea, but considering that the gain in SP between 19 & 20 is nearly equal to the discount for all 10 epic levels combined, this current discount for epic levels seems way too small to fix the issues with SP that plague casters.


Perhaps part of the fix can come in the form revisiting spell costs and metamagic costs. Spell costs were rebalanced once already (magic missile used to cost 10 sp). It may be appropriate to revisit this again, at least for direct damage spells.

Also, since Maximize now grants a static SP bonus instead of doubling damage, perhaps it should be cheapened to +20 SP, and Empower cheapened to +10 SP. This is probably the best idea for narrowing the gap between SLAs and regular spells, with an aim to make regular spells more worthwhile. I think we are already way too dependent on SLAs, and after the various changes coming with U29, we are set to be even more-so.

[Steelstar]

Steel,

Is the plan for the SP discount to stack with items? If so, thank you!


Yes, both the Spell Power and the SP cost reduction stack with other sources.

[janave]

Warlocks dont need more buffs, they are absurdly overpowered from every possible perspective.
They get to cast:
for free
very fast
in very large AoE
with double spellpower scaling (i know its not effectively x2)
with triple scaling due to crit multiplier

- compared to traditional DDO casters.

Remember the whole balance story started with Casters being OP? We are essentially now back in the start of the loop.

You guys fully get the idea what needs to be buffed or nerfed just not by how much..

[Atremus]

I don't think this is really going to change much of anything. SP reductions don't apply to SLAs, which represent the bulk of casting, and rounding error means you're often not going to get the full benefit. A 10% discount on regular spells only is likely going to equate to an overall reduction of about 3-4% when accounting for those factors.


At level 28 this works out to an 18% discount that is permanent if you wear the Necro Gloves or the Wisdom Hat. We don't know all of the gear options available at 30 so we should wait to see if this number grows. Maybe Epic GS will allow a 30% reduction on a item and 10% from the new epic power? I just want to see all the data before asking for tweaks.

I am happy for the caster stuff.

I have one more question for Steel. On the L21/24 feats. Will be the SP obtained from the feats double on FvS and Sorc? I assume so, but just want to ask.

[Steve_Howe]

Warlocks dont need more buffs, they are absurdly overpowered from every possible perspective.
They get to cast:
for free
very fast
in very large AoE
with double spellpower scaling (i know its not effectively x2)
with triple scaling due to crit multiplier

- compared to traditional DDO casters.

Remember the whole balance story started with Casters being OP? We are essentially now back in the start of the loop.

You guys fully get the idea what needs to be buffed or nerfed just not by how much..
The TYPES of damage a Warlock can do are more limited than a Wizard, for example. Therefore, the additional Spellpower will help them MORE than it helps Warlocks and the 1%/level spellpoint reduction pretty much helps ALL divine and arcane spellcasters EXCEPT Warlock.

I think the proposed +6 spellpower and 1% spellpoint reduction is fine.

[Tlorrd]

The TYPES of damage a Warlock can do are more limited than a Wizard, for example. Therefore, the additional Spellpower will help them MORE than it helps Warlocks and the 1%/level spellpoint reduction pretty much helps ALL divine and arcane spellcasters EXCEPT Warlock.

I think the proposed +6 spellpower and 1% spellpoint reduction is fine.

You're joking right? You really need only two types of spell power in this game to not only survive but thrive and warlocks have those. Light (and evil) and force. The boosts coupled with the level 30 celestial feat will put warlocks as supreme beings. They already get spell crit dmg boosts and will couple that with a feat and spammable AOE attacks. They will continue to be gods. I am a warlock and just telling it how it is.

[Thar]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


How about adding some fort, hp and sp to hirelings/pets/etc.

[Tlorrd]

Yes, both the Spell Power and the SP cost reduction stack with other sources.

Unfortunately magister spell point reduction and item spell point reduction do not stack. Also 1%/lvl is conservative IMO. When you have bosses with 200k HP, how do you propose to finish them even with SLAs while having run a whole quest with some or few shrines to use.

Plus you've added on epic metas that add additional spell point costs to spells.

[Atremus]

The Devs can always rebalance Warlock (down) again so that they match the rest of the caster classes. Really I don't mind if they are OP temporarily while the balance is established. It doesn't effect my play style at all. I still plan to attempt to crush stuff on my characters just like everyone else.

[Steve_Howe]

You're joking right? You really need only two types of spell power in this game to not only survive but thrive and warlocks have those. Light (and evil) and force. The boosts coupled with the level 30 celestial feat will put warlocks as supreme beings. They already get spell crit dmg boosts and will couple that with a feat and spammable AOE attacks. They will continue to be gods. I am a warlock and just telling it how it is.

I have two capped, pure Warlocks. One is a Melee Fey-pact, Enlightened Spirit 'lock and the other is a Great Old One, Tainted Scholar acid blaster. BOTH are very powerful but lack much-needed (in some places) versatility that a Wizard or even a Cleric could have if built correctly.

I think the increased spellpower helps the Wizards and Clerics more than it helps Warlocks and, again, the 1%/level spellpoint reduction bit doesn't really help Warlocks at all.

In short, what the Devs have come up with is fine.

[janave]

I have two capped, pure Warlocks. One is a Melee Fey-pact, Enlightened Spirit 'lock and the other is a Great Old One, Tainted Scholar acid blaster. BOTH are very powerful but lack much-needed (in some places) versatility that a Wizard or even a Cleric could have if built correctly.

I think the increased spellpower helps the Wizards and Clerics more than it helps Warlocks and, again, the 1%/level spellpoint reduction bit doesn't really help Warlocks at all.

In short, what the Devs have come up with is fine.

Every point of spell power should help the warlock much more than it helps the wizards and clerics, most warlock abilities get another scaling on top of spellpower, as well as the rare passive crit multiplier. Essentially they get their damage scaled up 3 times, now if you combine it with sense weakness and generally with helpless damage, you get what i mean.

Considering 60 spell power from the levels, that would be 90 effective spell power with base atk, which also gains the benefit from the crit multipliers, and will effectively end up somewhere above effective 100 spell power. Mind that while a Sorc is pretty much useless when facing resistant/immune mobs, a warlock can easily adjust its damage type spending 2 APS to damage (almost?) anything in the game.

Pre release, few of us mentioned that warlock scaling will be too much , but Devs just did not seem to care. Lots of people on live are disgusted about the warlock, and cant comprehend who and why would release such a broken thing on a live server. We have seen all kinds of weird over the years, but this one is apparently fully WAI, fixed? possibly never.

[Steve_Howe]

Every point of spell power should help the warlock much more than it helps the wizards and clerics, most warlock abilities get another scaling on top of spellpower, as well as the rare passive crit multiplier. Essentially they get their damage scaled up 3 times, now if you combine it with sense weakness and generally with helpless damage, you get what i mean.

Considering 60 spell power from the levels, that would be 90 effective spell power with base atk, which also gains the benefit from the crit multipliers, and will effectively end up somewhere above effective 100 spell power. Mind that while a Sorc is pretty much useless when facing resistant/immune mobs, a warlock can easily adjust its damage type spending 2 APS to damage (almost?) anything in the game.

Pre release, few of us mentioned that warlock scaling will be too much , but Devs just did not seem to care. Lots of people on live are disgusted about the warlock, and cant comprehend who and why would release such a broken thing on a live server. We have seen all kinds of weird over the years, but this one is apparently fully WAI, fixed? possibly never.

They scaled back on how much spellpower helps certain Warlock blast shapes and such a couple of times already, no?

[Propane]

Hey folks!




1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


]

Could this approach add a lot of calculations (aka lag)?

Would it be simpler to reduce the SP cost per spell by 1 point for each level 20 and above?
Or simply increase the SP pool by X% per level.

[memloch]

As stated in this thread is there going to be any help for the turn undead ability?

[Enoach]

While I like the direction this is going, I too could not help but see that the issue with Turn Undead seems to have been overlooked.

While I believe much of the issue is CR to HD conversion on undead it would have been nice to get access to something that can make Turn Undead (as niche as it is) into something that is an option for Level 29 to 30 Clerics and to a lesser extent Paladins without having to be a Hybrid Paladin-Cleric. I'm not asking to be able to clear whole rooms but something that would allow us to effect more than one or two trash undead would be nice.

[Steelstar]

Could this approach add a lot of calculations (aka lag)?

No.


As stated in this thread is there going to be any help for the turn undead ability?
We don't have plans for anything affecting Turn Undead in U29. That isn't to say the ability doesn't need anything, just that it's outside the scope of U29.

[slarden]

No.We don't have plans for anything affecting Turn Undead in U29. That isn't to say the ability doesn't need anything, just that it's outside the scope of U29.2015 is almost over, but this now takes my top spot for understatement of the year.

[Anaximandroz]

[QUOTE=Steelstar;5724910]Hey folks!

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):


+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


This feels like the casters update. Shouldn't ranged and melee gain another perk too? like +1% meele/ranged speed? that way all will attack more.

[Steelstar]

This feels like the casters update. Shouldn't ranged and melee gain another perk too? like +1% meele/ranged speed? that way all will attack more.
No. Melee and Ranged characters have been getting Melee and Ranged Power with each Epic level for a few updates now (as opposed to Casters, who currently get no such benefit). Melee and Ranged are in a relatively good place right now in comparison to casters. This helps close that gap.

[Propane]

More love for Dragon Marks!

5+ the number of uses for existing Dragon Marks would good start-

Extra Bonus would be 3 uses of new tier abilities- for example

Mark of Warding – House Kundarak --> Globe of Invulnerability or Greater Stone Skin
Mark of Shadow – Houses Phiarlan and Thuranni --> Shadow Veil
Mark of Sentinel – House Deneith --> Radiant Forcefield
Mark of Passage – House Orien --> Greater Teleport / summon circle of friends
Mark of Making – House Cannith --> Mass Reconstruct
Mark of Finding – House Tharashk --> True Seeing DC current level
Mark of Healing – House Jorasco --> Mass Heal
Mark of Storm – House Lyrandar --> Storm of Vengeance

Make it so!

[Tom.JonesJr]

No. Melee and Ranged characters have been getting Melee and Ranged Power with each Epic level for a few updates now (as opposed to Casters, who currently get no such benefit). Melee and Ranged are in a relatively good place right now in comparison to casters. This helps close that gap.

This may be true about the Melee and Ranged Power, but for Ranged Feats there are very few and even fewer that effect a Thrower. For General Epic feats you have Blinding Speed, Overwhelming Critical, and Combat Archery(which I do not believe affects throwers), Improved Martial Arts(for +12 Lvl Monks only), Improved Sneak Attack( for +12 Lvl Rogue only). For Epic Destiny Doubleshot, plus the DR bypass feats.

I know that Range and Throwers are not the only type of builds out there, but these feats all seam to center around caster. Casters do need to have some love, but a few new feats for a couple of other builds would be nice. As for me with my Thrower build I do not know what I will use my extra feat slots for with these being my current choices. It does not appear that any of them will increase my dps only make me more durable.

[Silverleafeon]

More love for Dragon Marks!

5+ the number of uses for existing Dragon Marks would good start-

Extra Bonus would be 3 uses of new tier abilities- for example

Mark of Warding – House Kundarak --> Globe of Invulnerability or Greater Stone Skin
Mark of Shadow – Houses Phiarlan and Thuranni --> Shadow Veil
Mark of Sentinel – House Deneith --> Radiant Forcefield
Mark of Passage – House Orien --> Greater Teleport / summon circle of friends
Mark of Making – House Cannith --> Mass Reconstruct
Mark of Finding – House Tharashk --> True Seeing DC current level
Mark of Healing – House Jorasco --> Mass Heal
Mark of Storm – House Lyrandar --> Storm of Vengeance

Make it so!

Very interesting.

[Milikki]

No. Melee and Ranged characters have been getting Melee and Ranged Power with each Epic level for a few updates now (as opposed to Casters, who currently get no such benefit). Melee and Ranged are in a relatively good place right now in comparison to casters. This helps close that gap.

Ah, you're a funny guy. Casters and Kiters Online is starting to wear thin. Try playing a melee and see how they are. Get blown around by elementals, tripped by wolves, frozen with poison, hit with aoe's that only affect people close to the enemy, watch your puny damage numbers go up, beat on a monster with auto-attack while you go make a sandwich, then come back and see if its dead yet. Do all this while the archers and casters stand back and spam cheeze attacks. Melees are far from even 2nd class citizens.

Not everyone wants to cheeze quests and perch on invisible ledges while doing tens-of-thousands of points of damage with each arrow, or hiding on top of the invisible spire and spamming magic missile. Melees need love and soon. Casters and Kiters Online is becoming quite a (boring) one trick pony.

[Systern]

No. Melee and Ranged characters have been getting Melee and Ranged Power with each Epic level for a few updates now (as opposed to Casters, who currently get no such benefit). Melee and Ranged are in a relatively good place right now in comparison to casters. This helps close that gap.

My Artificer doesn't feel like "on the shelf, collecting dust" is a good place to be.

[slarden]

Melees need love and soon.

Isn't that what they've been doing for the past 18 months? As someone that plays a mix of melees and casters I am looking forward to my casters contributing as much as my melees.

[Milikki]

Isn't that what they've been doing for the past 18 months? As someone that plays a mix of melees and casters I am looking forward to my casters contributing as much as my melees.

The might have, and in very specific instances, but I've done a lot of etrs and trs recently trying different build styles. Warlocks are a snooze, monkchers are a supreme cheeze fest, archers in general (I played a monk, ranger and rogue to cap) are massively overpowered doing tens-of-thousands of points of damage with each arrow. I also played centered kensai, stick builds and steel-shield monks. All of those have the potential to do massive damage, but at least have the issue of needing some defense to survive. Anything close-in has the problems of trips, poisons, necrotic touch, AOEs like the guy in the portable hole that only effect melees.

Ranged and casters face none of these issues. They dont have to chase, but might have to kite, they dont have to worry about prr, mrr or anything else because they can just hide up on the rock where nothing can reach them and spam their free attacks to win. Either monsters need to learn how to do some ranged damage to counteract this cheeze, or melees need some love. Personally, I vote for monsters that can do things like pull players off ledges, or shoot arrows that can do thousands of damage, or immobilize kiters from a distance (like bolos).

[slarden]

The might have, and in very specific instances, but I've done a lot of etrs and trs recently trying different build styles. Warlocks are a snooze, monkchers are a supreme cheeze fest, archers in general (I played a monk, ranger and rogue to cap) are massively overpowered doing tens-of-thousands of points of damage with each arrow. I also played centered kensai, stick builds and steel-shield monks. All of those have the potential to do massive damage, but at least have the issue of needing some defense to survive. Anything close-in has the problems of trips, poisons, necrotic touch, AOEs like the guy in the portable hole that only effect melees.

Ranged and casters face none of these issues. They dont have to chase, but might have to kite, they dont have to worry about prr, mrr or anything else because they can just hide up on the rock where nothing can reach them and spam their free attacks to win. Either monsters need to learn how to do some ranged damage to counteract this cheeze, or melees need some love. Personally, I vote for monsters that can do things like pull players off ledges, or shoot arrows that can do thousands of damage, or immobilize kiters from a distance (like bolos).

Casters and ranged have their defensive challenges - I certainly wouldn't give casters and ranged any edge on defenses and survivability over melees.

[BigErkyKid]

Casters and ranged have their defensive challenges - I certainly wouldn't give casters and ranged any edge on defenses and survivability over melees.

As the game stands they do, big time. They are way better in the defense department for the vast majority of content. The issue is that why would I kite BBs on a level 21 cleric while the barbarian next to me charges ahead and kills everything in 1/10 of the time?

DPS / defense / time to complete are not easy to manage. Right now casters are doubling their DPS, from what I see. Is this going to go well in classes that can kite?

[Faltout]

The might have, and in very specific instances, but I've done a lot of etrs and trs recently trying different build styles. Warlocks are a snooze, monkchers are a supreme cheeze fest, archers in general (I played a monk, ranger and rogue to cap) are massively overpowered doing tens-of-thousands of points of damage with each arrow. I also played centered kensai, stick builds and steel-shield monks. All of those have the potential to do massive damage, but at least have the issue of needing some defense to survive. Anything close-in has the problems of trips, poisons, necrotic touch, AOEs like the guy in the portable hole that only effect melees.

Ranged and casters face none of these issues. They dont have to chase, but might have to kite, they dont have to worry about prr, mrr or anything else because they can just hide up on the rock where nothing can reach them and spam their free attacks to win. Either monsters need to learn how to do some ranged damage to counteract this cheeze, or melees need some love. Personally, I vote for monsters that can do things like pull players off ledges, or shoot arrows that can do thousands of damage, or immobilize kiters from a distance (like bolos).
Sounds like you need a paladin?

[Atremus]

never mind

[draven1]

Wellspring of Power
Activate to gain +150 Universal Spell Power and +20% Spell Critical Damage for 30 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.

Intensify Spell
METAMAGIC: +75 Spell Power, spells cost +25SP. Works on any spell affected by Empower.

Scion of Celestia
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells
+150 Maximum Hit Points
+4 to Will Saves

Arcane Warrior (2 Arcane+1 Martial)
Your weapon and unarmed attacks grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Magical (+1 Universal Spell Power). Your offensive spells grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Physical (+1 Melee and Ranged Power). Each of these stacks to 20 times and each stack lasts for 6 seconds. You may gain a stack of each no more than once per second.

ES warlock can gain 285(150+75+40+20) spell power & 30% crit damage with 0 sp cost from U29.
Is this WAI? Devs didn't learn anything from last mistakes :(

How about removing utterdark blast from the game? Or making it as soul eater tier 5?
It is the reason of over powered ES warlock.
If ES warlock could use force only as a main source of blasts, it would not be so OP.
But, light & alignment spell power have too many stacking sources(EA, sunelf PL, etc).
That makes ES warlock OP.

[rehakp]

Yes yes. Finally casters gets more than +1 skills for epic level.
Yes yes. Finally summons and pets gets some love in epic content. Its not mutch and definitely doesnt make them viable by itself. But i like the way it goes and there are new pet oriented feats too. I hope there will be more and more in future. And i look forward that maybe 1 year from now some pet/summoner build will actually be viable in EE and i even dream about summoner build where most DPS/tanking etc. comes from pets/summons and its still competitive to other builds.

[LiquidZombie]

+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


Absolutely awesome changes, thank you. As a necro wizard I have felt very limited in epic levels so far, and these changes make me much more excited about going all the way to 30. A stacking 10% SP discount on top of the 10% from the War Wizards gear, +60 spellpower for myself, my PM skeleton will be dealing 50% more melee damage, and even the Magister Lich will be harder to destroy and deal double damage with his spells.

I'm sure people will say that this is still not viable for EE content, but I don't care. I'm a casual/solo player, not an elitist.

[Lorianus]

Wellspring of Power
Activate to gain +150 Universal Spell Power and +20% Spell Critical Damage for 30 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.

Intensify Spell
METAMAGIC: +75 Spell Power, spells cost +25SP. Works on any spell affected by Empower.

Scion of Celestia
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells
+150 Maximum Hit Points
+4 to Will Saves

Arcane Warrior (2 Arcane+1 Martial)
Your weapon and unarmed attacks grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Magical (+1 Universal Spell Power). Your offensive spells grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Physical (+1 Melee and Ranged Power). Each of these stacks to 20 times and each stack lasts for 6 seconds. You may gain a stack of each no more than once per second.

ES warlock can gain 285(150+75+40+20) spell power & 30% crit damage with 0 sp cost from U29.
Is this WAI? Devs didn't learn anything from last mistakes :(

How about removing utterdark blast from the game? Or making it as soul eater tier 5?
It is the reason of over powered ES warlock.
If ES warlock could use force only as a main source of blasts, it would not be so OP.
But, light & alignment spell power have too many stacking sources(EA, sunelf PL, etc).
That makes ES warlock OP.

Yes, warlocks can use those synergies but that locks them into EA (-5 caster level) and to use the Arcane Warrior buff they have to hit the mob in melee constantly and get into melee range. Point blank aura range and melee range is a Huge difference at level 29. I guess casting spells + aura will still be better than melee + aura in Arcane Warrior. Intensify Spell won't work on the Blast/Aura as those are not effected by Empower. I wouldn't call something OP before we can test it on Lamania.

[slarden]

How about removing utterdark blast from the game? Or making it as soul eater tier 5?
It is the reason of over powered ES warlock.
If ES warlock could use force only as a main source of blasts, it would not be so OP.
But, light & alignment spell power have too many stacking sources(EA, sunelf PL, etc).
That makes ES warlock OP.

I don't think the devs should lock everyone into Souleater Tier 5. As it stands ES Warlocks are less common than SoulEaster / TS warlocks so why completely eliminate diversity?

[slarden]

As the game stands they do, big time. They are way better in the defense department for the vast majority of content. The issue is that why would I kite BBs on a level 21 cleric while the barbarian next to me charges ahead and kills everything in 1/10 of the time?

DPS / defense / time to complete are not easy to manage. Right now casters are doubling their DPS, from what I see. Is this going to go well in classes that can kite?

As someone playing a mix of casters and melee I disagree with this assessment.

[CeltEireson]

Yes, both the Spell Power and the SP cost reduction stack with other sources.

On a related note Steelstar, any plans to change the spellpoint reduction option in Magister to something other than enhancement so it stacks with items? Its a tier 6 option, and there are plenty of items now with similar levels of spellpoint reduction so its a little underwhelming.

[CeltEireson]

Unfortunately magister spell point reduction and item spell point reduction do not stack. Also 1%/lvl is conservative IMO. When you have bosses with 200k HP, how do you propose to finish them even with SLAs while having run a whole quest with some or few shrines to use.

Plus you've added on epic metas that add additional spell point costs to spells.

Oops., sorry, didn't see your post till after I had done mine!

[Propane]

Hey folks!


1% discount to the SP cost of your spells

[/LIST]

1%? How are you doing the rounding?

15 spell points x 0.1 --> 0.15 spell points ... does that get rounded up to 1 sp savings?

[Claver]

More love for Dragon Marks!

5+ the number of uses for existing Dragon Marks would good start-

Extra Bonus would be 3 uses of new tier abilities- for example

Mark of Warding – House Kundarak --> Globe of Invulnerability or Greater Stone Skin
Mark of Shadow – Houses Phiarlan and Thuranni --> Shadow Veil
Mark of Sentinel – House Deneith --> Radiant Forcefield
Mark of Passage – House Orien --> Greater Teleport / summon circle of friends
Mark of Making – House Cannith --> Mass Reconstruct
Mark of Finding – House Tharashk --> True Seeing DC current level
Mark of Healing – House Jorasco --> Mass Heal
Mark of Storm – House Lyrandar --> Storm of Vengeance

Make it so!

Amazing Idea!

It seems like I have seen other people post ideas like this somewhere.:p

[draven1]

I don't think the devs should lock everyone into Souleater Tier 5. As it stands ES Warlocks are less common than SoulEaster / TS warlocks so why completely eliminate diversity?

Because ES warlock hurt diversity.
Do you remember when half of pug was warlock and 99% of them was ES warlock?

[slarden]

Because ES warlock hurt diversity.
Do you remember when half of pug was warlock and 99% of them was ES warlock?

No I never saw that. I saw a mix of different types of warlocks because some people wanted to get their warlock lifes in and others wanted to try the new class.

The most common build at the moment is soul eater / tainted scholar.

[Maldrak]

I've looked at the new 29/30 feats, and I gotta say, the mere fact that the NUMBER next to my level is now 30, actually excites me more, due to the following....

At level 30, I get the following I didn't have at lvl 28, by virtue of 30 being a multiple of 5/10 and 28 not...

+9 AC
+36 HP (in addition to the normal HP gained from the extra levels)
+15 HP healed per minute (pos energy, so times my healing amp of course, so closer to 45 hp/min)

(I think I did the math right on all those. :)

But in the end, I really look at these new fangled feats and think, "Ok, so now it's that much easier to run EN lords of Dust for heart seeds? Do I REALLY care? Not really...."
Brutal Honesty here: I'd much rather the dev's attention was on something I cared more about - like accurate tooltip descriptions, and fixes for some of the century old (SLIGHT exaggeration) issues, or a REAL crafting system that allowed for actual customization of equipment, instead of being limited to the devs understanding of builds/mechanics... Actually, I'd prefer boots of air walking and a flight spell (I'm thoroughly sick of the jump puzzles in this game) to this expenditure of resources, but that's just my 2 cents.

[Nigo]

Still no love for tank builds....

[Propane]

Tanking is a balance of staying alive and generating enough hate to keep agro.

How about a feat that grants either Vampirism or Healing Curse when in a defensive stance (CE or other)?

It would help stay alive and allow for more DPS activities / Weapons / abilities.

A shorter cool down on Intim/ Ki shout (or another action on separate timer would be good as well, with a healthy boost to score) would be good.

I don't want to see the return of turtle tanks, boost to both above would help tanks a fair amount.

[Son_of_the_South]

[QUOTE=Milikki;5725867]Warlocks are a snooze, monkchers are a supreme cheeze fest, archers in general (I played a monk, ranger and rogue to cap) are massively overpowered doing tens-of-thousands of points of damage with each arrow.QUOTE]

Tens of thousands hey? So like 30,000 with each arrow? Screen shot it please otherwise churlish hyperbole is only detracting from the very little respect a post like this might hope to gain.

Dev's - I honestly hope it isn't overly dramatic & hysterical posts like these that you pay any attention to??

[UurlockYgmeov]

fate points and the fifth twist slot.

So with max fate points from past lives etc you can unlock a 4 / 3/ 2/ 1/ 1....

seems to me that the 5th twist slot should unlock automatically for free.

[Faltout]

fate points and the fifth twist slot.

So with max fate points from past lives etc you can unlock a 4 / 3/ 2/ 1/ 1....

seems to me that the 5th twist slot should unlock automatically for free.
+
2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2
3 / 3 / 2 / 2 / 1
I don't see a problem.

[EllisDee37]

fate points and the fifth twist slot.

So with max fate points from past lives etc you can unlock a 4 / 3/ 2/ 1/ 1....

seems to me that the 5th twist slot should unlock automatically for free.With the extra 5 points you can now unlock 4 / 4 / 3.

[Kompera_Oberon]

This post draws elements from all of the other threads and so it seemed most appropriate to place it here.

Pets, Hirelings, and Summoned Monsters. All are fairly useless in epic content.

- Summoned Monsters in particular because Summon Monster IX is as good as it gets, and that is a spell obtained at 17th level (16th for Warlocks) which becomes less useful even as the caster levels to 20th, and drastically less useful in all epic content. I occasionally run Devil Assault on EN for Greensteel mats. Since it is a fairly dull run what with the long timer between attack waves and since it does not tax my character's resources at all I will often summon a monster, buff it to the fullest extent I can (I do not have Augment Summons or Druid past lives), and then fight the next wave as usual. Even trying as hard as I can as a Cleric (i.e. no Intimidate, no threat boosting abilities) I can rarely keep a summoned monster alive for a single wave. And that's a difference of only 4 levels between 17th and 21st, with a player actively striving to pull aggro away from the summons and healing it via Smite Foe/Ameliorating Strike. That's pretty telling about how quickly summoned monsters become useless.

- The very few Druids or Artificers I group with who bother to have their pet out at all are constantly having to manage them with healing and resurrections, so they are more of a distraction than an assistance. I have not played these classes and the information I've been able to find is both sparse and years old, but unless things have changed there seems to be scaling issues with the wolf and iron defender.

- Hirelings also drop off significantly in epic content, even though they are offered with levels up through 27th. Since these hirelings were created to be hired and used by players who are at epic level in epic level content they should have been corrected to be effective in that content a very long time ago after it became apparent just how useless they were. Boosting them now is a good first step.

The quoted text below is a good start at addressing the various issues with Pets/Hirelings/Summoned Monsters. It is a no-tax improvement in the effectiveness of all three of these types of NPC helper. It is also a scaling approach which has the best chance to remain effective as the player levels. This is the way to go.

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:
+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


The following two quotes are not the way to go. They are a direct feat tax for effective Pets/Hirelings/Summoned Monsters.

New ML24 General Feats: (Each of these also grants +140 Maximum Spell Points) [...]
Improved Augment Summoning
Requires Augment Summoning
Your summoned creatures have +8 to all ability scores, +10% Dodge, and +100 Maximum Hitpoints



At level 30 you will get a choice of one Legendary Feat. [...]
Scion of Elysium

Summoned creatures gain +25 PRR and MRR
Summoned creatures gain +20 MP, RP, and USP
Summoned creatures gain +100% Fortification
Summoned creatures gain a 5% chance to ignore incoming damage entirely. Does not affect any incoming Positive, Negative, or Repair effects.


Of course it remains to be seen exactly how much impact the free per-level bonuses has on the effective level of Pets/Hirelings/Summoned Monsters. But placing these additional boosts to that effectiveness in high level feats is still a mistake. All you need to do is to take a look at the similar boosts offered in a couple of the Enhancement trees, and then look around the player base to see how well received they have been.

And just in case it becomes an issue, yes I am aware that Augment Summoning is a feat. It was translated into DDO directly from D&D. It offers a static bonus and therefore does not scale well at all. It can be handy in the lower level heroic content, but at or before the teen levels it quickly becomes a feat tax and should be replaced by something more useful.

In summary, if you're looking to make Pets/Hirelings/Summoned Monsters effective and worth using, which I believe is a laudable goal, just do so, but don't have it cost the players feats or enhancements.

[elvesunited]

Even if they weren't dumb as rocks, summons seem to be stuck at heroic normal levels of strength.
They can be buffed to Heroic elite levels with considerable effort. But Epic Normal? Not unless your sole focus is keeping your summon alive. Epic Hard, Epic Elite? Forget about it.

Buffs only get you so far. +100 hp, +8 ability scores, +10% dodge is meaningless when the non-boss enemy monsters have hp around five thousand and hit for damage in the hundreds. Summons need to scale to quest difficulty or else what's the point?

[LiquidZombie]

1%? How are you doing the rounding?

15 spell points x 0.1 --> 0.15 spell points ... does that get rounded up to 1 sp savings?

Based on my experience with the War Wizards 10% SP reduction buff, the whole spell cost (including metamagics) is reduced and then rounded using normal decimal rounding (not the DnD-style always-round-down system). I assume that this new discount will work the same way.

Scorching Ray: 8 -> 7.2 rounded to 7
Fireball: 15 -> 13.5 rounded to 14
Disintegrate: 25 -> 22.5 rounded to 23
Finger of Death, heightened at 3SP per level: 46 -> 41.4 rounded to 41

[Lorianus]

Because ES warlock hurt diversity.
Do you remember when half of pug was warlock and 99% of them was ES warlock?

No, I don't see that either. Perhaps that is a G-Land thing? Maybe It's because your server has a lot of veteran players with a lot of past lives and gear that dare to go close range on a warlock for more damage. Most people I pug with (Argonessen, default server for some time now with a good share of first live characters) use a ranged attack on their warlocks and don’t dare to go close to elite mobs.

What I see are a lot of posts on this forums that seem to be written under the assumption that all players see the game from the same angle and that there is such a thing like “the truth” about how things should be balanced.

[Vanhooger]

I repeat myself until I get a dev answer. PLEASE, remove +10% sp cost to sorcerer capstone.

[Silverleafeon]

fate points and the fifth twist slot.'.

Thank you so much Devs for listening to us wanting an extra twist slot.
Wow ~ does not require a feat (as was my proposal), and we get fate points to open up more!!


I repeat myself until I get a dev answer. PLEASE, remove +10% sp cost to sorcerer capstone.

/signed
Sure, I'll jump on the bandwagon for this one, after all, druid elemental form does not have that kind for penalty.

[Iriale]

I repeat myself until I get a dev answer. PLEASE, remove +10% sp cost to sorcerer capstone.
+1

[Pnumbra]

In addition, starting with U29, every Epic Level will grant you the following (similar to the Melee and Ranged power you currently get):


+6 Universal Spell Power
1% discount to the SP cost of your spells


And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


This is great!

[Silverleafeon]

This is great!

Aye, its like getting a free metamagic always on, and a free super mental toughness.

It will be very, very interesting to see how the Druid Wolf turns out now.

[slarden]

fate points and the fifth twist slot.

So with max fate points from past lives etc you can unlock a 4 / 3/ 2/ 1/ 1....

seems to me that the 5th twist slot should unlock automatically for free.

Max Fate points from ED and Past Lifes is currently 29 and 5 more will be available with U29 at level 30 - so 34 total before any tomes of fate.

4-3-2-1-1 is 35 so it will require a +1 tome of fate with all epic past lifes (or +3 tome of fate with 28 past lifes)
4-4-2-1 is also 35 so same as above
4-3-3-1 is also 35 so same as above
4-4-1-1-1 is 36 so it will require a +2 tome of fate with all epic past lifes (or +3 tome of fate with 32 past lifes)
4-4-3 is also 36 so same as above
3-3-3-2-1 is 37 so it will require a +3 tome of fate with all epic past lifes

[Juggle]

You're joking right? You really need only two types of spell power in this game to not only survive but thrive and warlocks have those. Light (and evil) and force.

No...you need more than that to be better. Light + Force + Either fire/acid/sonic (whichever path you went down) + devotion for rejuvenation cocoon. Then lore for all of them for max DPS.

[Juggle]

Let's not just throw stuff out there without some testing first. The new feats proposed make a lot of changes favoring a caster. Removing maximum caster level means that this puny little 1st level spell like cold ray that cost a little and did little damage now will deal more damage than polar ray. Spamming that spell will save you a ton of sp while doing some significant damage.
Also consider the spell crit damage increases, the spell power being added and possibly new loot that will further increase caster levels. Maximizing and empowering cold ray is totally useless (since it costs too low sp and you have too much spell power already).

Yes

[Juggle]

Wellspring of Power
Activate to gain +150 Universal Spell Power and +20% Spell Critical Damage for 30 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.

Intensify Spell
METAMAGIC: +75 Spell Power, spells cost +25SP. Works on any spell affected by Empower.

Scion of Celestia
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells
+150 Maximum Hit Points
+4 to Will Saves

Arcane Warrior (2 Arcane+1 Martial)
Your weapon and unarmed attacks grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Magical (+1 Universal Spell Power). Your offensive spells grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Physical (+1 Melee and Ranged Power). Each of these stacks to 20 times and each stack lasts for 6 seconds. You may gain a stack of each no more than once per second.

ES warlock can gain 285(150+75+40+20) spell power & 30% crit damage with 0 sp cost from U29.
Is this WAI? Devs didn't learn anything from last mistakes :(

How about removing utterdark blast from the game? Or making it as soul eater tier 5?
It is the reason of over powered ES warlock.
If ES warlock could use force only as a main source of blasts, it would not be so OP.
But, light & alignment spell power have too many stacking sources(EA, sunelf PL, etc).
That makes ES warlock OP.


Leave warlock alone. Also Arcane Warrior won't help much, it gives opposite of what you do so attacking gives spellpower and casting gives melee power...this will help multiple custom-builds. Same with Celestia and Intensify. Though, I see where you're coming from, after testing it out on Lamma and such...a lot of builds will benefit and be awesome as they should at level 30. Quit with warlock-hating :(

[Livmo]

Leave warlock alone. Also Arcane Warrior won't help much, it gives opposite of what you do so attacking gives spellpower and casting gives melee power...this will help multiple custom-builds. Same with Celestia and Intensify. Though, I see where you're coming from, after testing it out on Lamma and such...a lot of builds will benefit and be awesome as they should at level 30. Quit with warlock-hating :(

I personally don't feel warlocks are OP in epics at all and I have 5 different ones that I play in epics.

Furthermore, I feel that some of the warlock hate stems from not all the other classes getting a balance pass and being brought up to speed like bards, paladins warlocks, rangers, etc.

My pure arty feels very left out in the cold in epics.

[PsychoBlonde]

I personally don't feel warlocks are OP in epics at all and I have 5 different ones that I play in epics.


Enlightened Spirit was a very poor design choice, because it gets rid of ALL of their caster downsides. HP low? Here's 20% bonus and all the temp HP you could ever want! And medium armor! Heck, your aura does damage even if you're crowd controlled and helpless! Oh, and we made it compatible with paladin in case you want to max out your saving throws! If it worked more like Hideous Blow (where your melee attacks do eldritch blast damage) that'd be fine because you'd have to invest in a melee style and all the other stuff melee builds have to do. Make it so none of the other ES abilities work at all unless you're in melee mode (make them real cleave attacks instead of blasts). Make the temp hp build up from melee attacks instead of being a whoop there it is ability. Now you have different styles of play and a substantial trade-off at work.

Cone and chain should also cause the core blast to get a reflex save for half (or none, if you have evasion). AOE spell damage = reflex save. That would be a genuine trade-off. It'd make crowd control useful for them. They'd have to invest in something to be consistently effective or switch to single-target against mobs with evasion (which takes time).

Giving them force, piercing, and alignment damage as their base damage types was a get-off-easy card, too. If you wanted to make them REALLY interesting to play, the base damage would be their pact damage type. It'd be 100% elemental, and then they could, say, cast a spell to temporarily add another damage type on top of that for a short time. It'd make them burn their SP and lead to some harsh trade-offs because of the sharply limited spell selection.

PnP Warlock has a lot of these downfalls and it's much more interesting to play without completely overshadowing any other caster that's limited by spell points, saving throws, and SR.

[janave]

I personally don't feel warlocks are OP in epics at all and I have 5 different ones that I play in epics.

Furthermore, I feel that some of the warlock hate stems from not all the other classes getting a balance pass and being brought up to speed like bards, paladins warlocks, rangers, etc.

My pure arty feels very left out in the cold in epics.

My experience is very much the opposite with warlocks, the ones i played could easily dominate EE content (being below content level!) at runspeed. I had about 30% reserve in DPS as i used a bad multiclass and only had 18WL levels so no capstone. I also did not have the best min/max gear available.

First Life Warlocks might be balanced, but as soon as 1 gets energy criticals, the relevant spell lore/spellpower gear, its completely borked.

I was really okay with my casters performance wise, but since i played warlock i find that id rather not play any caster at all, warlock outdoes the next best caster i can build 3-5times while being in Sentinel ED ... if that is not broken to the DEVs, i dare ask what is?

[janave]

I repeat myself until I get a dev answer. PLEASE, remove +10% sp cost to sorcerer capstone.

And may as well add in a .5 Spell crit multi for your choosen element while being in elemental form. Since warlocks can have it passive for ALL their attacks that cost nothing, and can spam them eternally.

[Edwinge]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


I don't see this in the update 29 release notes. Is it an omission in the notes or was it scrapped?

[bigdmag]

May have missed it..because there are a lot of release notes. But it looks like fire/cold/elec/acid/light/pos/neg all got some bumps..dont see force anywhere. Did they not do anything for force? Or did I just miss it.

[elvesunited]

May have missed it..because there are a lot of release notes. But it looks like fire/cold/elec/acid/light/pos/neg all got some bumps..dont see force anywhere. Did they not do anything for force? Or did I just miss it.

I chose Master of Knowledge for my archmage character. ( wizard 17 Favored 2 cleric 1 ) With force critical already at 40%, I can get it up to 60% crit damage by casting arcane bolt and arcane blast in rapid succession ( and up to +90 spellpower ) . Arcane bolt and blast are much, much better now that metamagics can be applied to them.

[bigdmag]

I chose Master of Knowledge for my archmage character. ( wizard 17 Favored 2 cleric 1 ) With force critical already at 40%, I can get it up to 60% crit damage by casting arcane bolt and arcane blast in rapid succession ( and up to +90 spellpower ) . Arcane bolt and blast are much, much better now that metamagics can be applied to them.

Yes, but what about the sorc mm builds who don't have those slas ? We got no real way to increase our dps :(

[Steelstar]

Yes, but what about the sorc mm builds who don't have those slas ? We got no real way to increase our dps :(

For a Force Sorc build, I'd look into some combination of the following new options for your Epic feats:

Intensify Spell
Wellspring of Power
Either Arcane Pulse (if you aren't Shiradi) or Spirit Blades (if you are)
Scion of Arborea
Greater Ruin (since Force Spell Power amplifies it)

[Silverleafeon]

Spirit Blades (if you are)
[/LIST]

Hmmm....have to try that one, I like Arcane Pulse.

[bigdmag]

For a Force Sorc build, I'd look into some combination of the following new options for your Epic feats:

Intensify Spell
Wellspring of Power
Either Arcane Pulse (if you aren't Shiradi) or Spirit Blades (if you are)
Scion of Arborea
Greater Ruin (since Force Spell Power amplifies it)



But that doesnt address my original post. All the elements (and neg and pos )got some kind of boost ( spell power,crit chances and crit damage multipliers) Nothing really for force..so those new feats dont really translate to the EE new content..we are still behind the dps curve :( Most of those feats do very little for a Sorc MM build..we need increased crit chances and damage multipliers..loving the update for the most part but I miss my Sorc MM spammer.

[Kompera_Oberon]

But that doesnt address my original post.
It kinda did, in the only way possible. You could have been ignored. Instead you were given a list of work-arounds that might partially address your concern. There isn't a new feat that improves MM max level, which is a shame. Tossing 10 MMs at level 19+ would be sweet, right? And really, not "overperforming." From the response it doesn't look like that was either considered or will be considered. But you can throw a bunch of force daggers instead!

Speaking of which, isn't Spirit Blades just a re-branded Wild Shots? And isn't Dreamscape just a re-branded Audience with the Queen?

[kaobang]

For a Force Sorc build, I'd look into some combination of the following new options for your Epic feats:

Intensify Spell
Wellspring of Power
Either Arcane Pulse (if you aren't Shiradi) or Spirit Blades (if you are)
Scion of Arborea
Greater Ruin (since Force Spell Power amplifies it)


1.
I have the same issue, intensify is really expensive (due to the additionnal cost) and so situational.
Shiradi sorc cannot spam with it.

2.
Wellspring is actually not bad, I first thought that the cd is too long, but since it takes longer to kill in the new content we can use it several times lol.

3.
Master of Knowledge is ok as well, even if it is non optimal to cast arcane bolt/blast in a shiradi rotation ... but vs boss the dmg is nice.

4.
A force sorc is general in shiradi ... and thus we want procs for cheap spam spells.

All the other elements got boost with the "Master of", force dmg did not get any.
This my main gripe.

I do not ask to fire 10+ missiles per cast but at least have a reasonnable boost for force spells.
I would say +2-4 missiles from the missile spells would be fine.
Damage could see a boost too, we currently have this kind of dmg in epic:

Magic missile: dmg is 1d2+3 / missile
Force missile: dmg is 2d3+8 / misille

5.
To be honest Scion of the Plane of Fire is much better that Arborea for shiradi sorc, even with just the DPS part:

Scion of the Plane of Fire:
25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
+30 Universal Spell Power

vs

Scion of Arborea
+20 Force Spell Power and +20 Universal Spell Power
+2 to the Enhancement Bonus of your weapon
total = 46 force spell power

25% spell crit dmg is better than 16 spell power imo.

6.
And on top of that there is nothing for force dmg in the new LGS (force was already left out in toee) ...

[Zafaron]

For a Force Sorc build, I'd look into some combination of the following new options for your Epic feats:

Intensify Spell
Wellspring of Power
Either Arcane Pulse (if you aren't Shiradi) or Spirit Blades (if you are)
Scion of Arborea
Greater Ruin (since Force Spell Power amplifies it)



Was it an oversight that Spirit Blades can't be quickened? Or is that WAI?

[LiquidZombie]

I chose Master of Knowledge for my archmage character. ( wizard 17 Favored 2 cleric 1 ) With force critical already at 40%, I can get it up to 60% crit damage by casting arcane bolt and arcane blast in rapid succession ( and up to +90 spellpower ) . Arcane bolt and blast are much, much better now that metamagics can be applied to them.

I like the idea of Master of Knowledge, but I'm concerned about that stack fading every six seconds. Arcane Bolt has a cooldown of 5 seconds, which means even if you spam it as fast as possible, you will still lose stacks almost as fast as you gain them, and it would take almost forever to reach the maximum of 30 stacks. Or do the stacks not start to fade until after you stop spamming the SLA?

I suppose it might be designed for pure archmage builds who can cast both the Bolt and the Blast repeatedly, but since I play a Pale Master I can't take the tier 5 Blast ability from the AM tree.

[Sanader]

I wouldn't wanna be a dev. 75% of this posts are pure junk.
People that fail to add 4 numbers to calculate warlock spell power.
People that state range is OP.
People that state range sucks.
People that say melee is OP.
People that say melee sucks.
People that say nothing in the feat list helps their builds (like really?)
People complaining about force sorc what? Can I complain about a greatclub pure ranger?
Some calculation's here are done incorrcetly (for example a guy that said 10% discount only results in a 4% discount cause people mostly use SLA's is wrong. It's actually 9,9% discount that way).

And lastly there are few of them that said casters were okay? Only YouTube video of a caster soloing some hard EE was sithali doing toee1 EE on a sorc. He invis'd through all the trash mobs. And had to DD in a middle of a boss fight to get SP back after using only SLA's and low cost spells.

[Sanader]

I like the idea of Master of Knowledge, but I'm concerned about that stack fading every six seconds. Arcane Bolt has a cooldown of 5 seconds, which means even if you spam it as fast as possible, you will still lose stacks almost as fast as you gain them, and it would take almost forever to reach the maximum of 30 stacks. Or do the stacks not start to fade until after you stop spamming the SLA?

I suppose it might be designed for pure archmage builds who can cast both the Bolt and the Blast repeatedly, but since I play a Pale Master I can't take the tier 5 Blast ability from the AM tree.

Thats kinda the point. Drop your t5 from PM and get t5 from AM if you think its worth to trade.

[LiquidZombie]

Thats kinda the point. Drop your t5 from PM and get t5 from AM if you think its worth to trade.

Fair enough if that's the intention. It just seems to me that the feat would be more useful if you could build up the stacks without having to spam both SLAs at breakneck speed. One stack fading every 10 seconds would seem reasonable to me (for a net gain of 6 stacks per minute if you spammed Arcane Bolt alone).

[Vellrad]

And each Epic Level you have will grant the following to your Hirelings, Pets, and Summoned Creatures:

+5 Melee & Ranged Power
+10 Universal Spell Power
+5 PRR
+5 MRR


That works on charmed mobs?

[bigdmag]

I wouldn't wanna be a dev. 75% of this posts are pure junk.
People that fail to add 4 numbers to calculate warlock spell power.
People that state range is OP.
People that state range sucks.
People that say melee is OP.
People that say melee sucks.
People that say nothing in the feat list helps their builds (like really?)
People complaining about force sorc what? Can I complain about a greatclub pure ranger?
Some calculation's here are done incorrcetly (for example a guy that said 10% discount only results in a 4% discount cause people mostly use SLA's is wrong. It's actually 9,9% discount that way).

And lastly there are few of them that said casters were okay? Only YouTube video of a caster soloing some hard EE was sithali doing toee1 EE on a sorc. He invis'd through all the trash mobs. And had to DD in a middle of a boss fight to get SP back after using only SLA's and low cost spells.

Trust me no one wants you to be a dev either.

I wasnt really complaining, just asking if I missed something. Sorc MM spammers are and actual build that many people have used..if your unfamiliar with them, then you havent been paying attention... Greatclub wielding Rangers are not..try again. My post was,in essence,a light hearted jab that I was bummed that force didnt get the bump I was hoping to revive my MM spammer. Not once did I dig into anyone or anything, just here to talk about the new stuff.

You are officially part of that 75% of junk that you talked about...congratulations :)