Be gentle, completionist build little knowledge

[Kinvesu]

Hi. It has been awhile since I played DDO. Almost 2 years. Like when I cheated my way through an arti life with the otto boxes. I have been playing since the game came out but not full time. So I would quit and come back months or a year later. Always read the forums and such but didn't post much. Just a build once. Anyways. I am now finally approaching completionist. I am on my last life, warlock. I am a melee person at heart. So I am looking for a melee build to stick with in epics. I have never played in the epic levels. I always got to 20 then reincarnated. I have a pretty decent knowledge of the game but a lot still alludes. Like the math and inner workings of how dps works, survivability and etc etc.

I came up with a build that I think I would like but I am unsure. I am hesitant to post it because I am sure it is terrible since I pretty much have no idea how things actually are in epics. But I was hoping people like Unbongwah, madcookiequeen and others could help me tweak this one, or point me to a build I should be using for what I want to do.

This is a build I threw together the other day. What I would like to do is solo as much as I can while being melee and still contribute dps to my guild or pugs and maybe throw out a heal if I really need too. I don't have amazing gear. Just +5 tomes. I want to be as survivable as I can because I pretty much solo 97% of the time due to my job, not wanting to bother people and not wanting to wait for others. I will be glad to group and join a guild but I wanna know I can take off on my own at any time and handle most of what the game throws at me.

So in conclusion, I want to melee, doesn't matter the style(whatever is best for what i want) , survive EH ATLEAST, EE would be even better, have reliable self healing, not scrolled, includes completionist feat, dont need to do traps.

Half Elf for the scimitar deity weapons and also the warlock dillitante for extra fire damage
Sacred defender tree is for survivability
warpriest tree is for the survivability plus dps with deity weapons and DM
Kensai for a couple improvements to my weapon

Any improvements or pointing to a build that would actually be what i want would be awesome. I am unfortunately against WF/BF and dwarves and dont have half orc. This build will also be stuck in primal avatar for a bit because I accidentally opened it on one of my lives. I am probably not even close but hey I gotta start somewhere.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.28.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(3 Fighter \ 5 Paladin \ 12 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 474
Spell Points: 2044
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 30
Reflex: 25
Will: 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 32
Dexterity 15 22
Constitution 15 22
Intelligence 8 15
Wisdom 8 15
Charisma 16 26

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 2 16
Bluff 3 18
Concentration 2 19
Diplomacy 3 18
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 18
Heal 3 35
Hide 2 16
Intimidate 3 18
Jump 3 21
Listen -1 12
Move Silently 2 16
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 13
Search -1 13
Spellcraft -1 12
Spot -1 12
Swim 3 21
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a 27

Level 1 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Undying Court
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Warlock
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Favored Soul)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Favored Soul)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 10 (Favored Soul)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 13 (Favored Soul)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Favored Soul)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Armor Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resistance Aura (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Spellshield Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Contemplation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Contemplation (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Contemplation (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Bulwark of Defense


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Epic Spell Power: Positive

[Thalone]

Primal Avatar may not be such a bad thing. It has Rejuvenation Cocoon in it, and that's pretty much the go-to healing clicky in epics.

As for the build, you may be overthinking things. Paladins are silly powerful right now; if you get 15 levels of Paladin, you add Zeal and Holy Sword to your arsenal. If you can self-heal through Paladin spells in heroics you should be fine doing whatever for the other five levels.

Paladin gets Divine Might via Turns. Similarly, you can get cleave attacks in the Knight of the Chalice tree, so you may not have to spend feats on cleaves (note, however, Cleave the feat is a prerequisite for some of the moves in Legendary Dreadnaught). KotC core enhancements also give a lot of on-hit bonus damage. Combined with Zeal and Holy Sword, that should give you more than enough DPS to make up for dropping the Warpriest tree altogether.

Popular Paladin builds are pure (KotC capstone gives 10 Melee Power), Fighter 2 splash (feats), Ranger 5 (AoE TWF from Tempest).

[unbongwah]

Apart from losing the Heal spell, I think a build like Steel Shrine (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449262-Steel-Shrine) will do what you want only better: higher melee DPS, for one thing. It's a pretty flexible build concept too: works with any race & combat style, with or without Evasion. Basically, any combo of pal 14-15 / cleric or FvS 4 / ftr or monk 1-2 works. Likewise, apart from spending 22 APs Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike, you have a lot of flexibility with Enhancements; for DPS focus on KotC, for survivability / tanking focus on Sacred D.

Here's a quick-n-dirty conversion to TWF HE using scimitars in PA:

Valenar Shrine
15/4/1 Paladin/Favored Soul/Fighter
Lawful Good Half-Elf


Level Order

1. Paladin 6. Paladin 11. Paladin 16. Favored Soul
2. Paladin 7. Paladin 12. Paladin 17. Favored Soul
3. Paladin 8. Paladin 13. Paladin 18. Favored Soul
4. Paladin 9. Paladin 14. Paladin 19. Favored Soul
5. Paladin 10. Paladin 15. Fighter 20. Paladin


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 16 +5 4: STR
Dexterity 13 +5 8: STR
Constitution 16 +5 12: STR
Intelligence 9 +5 16: STR
Wisdom 8 +5 20: STR
Charisma 16 +5 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Fi Fv Fv Fv Fv Pa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 1 2 2 2 1 2 1 3 1 1½ ½ 1½ ½ 4 23
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Heal 1 1 2
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
4 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4


Feats

1 : Precision or Power Attack
1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
1 Deity : Follower of: Undying Court
3 : Completionist
6 : Quicken Spell
6 Deity : Undying Call
9 : Two Weapon Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 : Empower Healing Spell
18 Deity : Child of: Undying Court
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic :
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic :
28 Destiny: Elusive Target or First Blood


Enhancements (80 AP)

Half-Elf (4 AP)


Versatile Nature, Human Strength, Human Damage Boost


Knight of the Chalice (36 AP)


Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven


Extra Remove Disease II, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
Improved Restoration III, Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite I, Strength
Censure Demons, Passion I, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
Censure Outsiders, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life



Sacred Defender (14 AP)


Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense, Divine Righteousness


Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense II
Tenacious Defense III



Warpriest (22 AP)


Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle


Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Inflame III
Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Ameliorating Strike



Kensei (4 AP)


Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades


Haste Boost III




Destiny (24 AP)

Primal Avatar


Ephemeral Evolution III, Rejuvenation Cocoon III
Seeking Balance III
Balanced Attacks III
Symetric Strikes, Autumn Harvest III
Chill of Winter I, Spirit Boon: Physical
Nature's Fury: Crit Multiplier, Avatar of Nature


I tried to optimize for epic performance; you might prefer a different leveling order for heroics. And naturally, tweak the skills as you see fit; if you want to max Heal, bump up INT a pt or two. This Enhancement spread is DPS-focused with good survivability from Sacred D. and Enflame; a more tank-y version would shift APs from KotC to SD.

[Theolin]

Question for you: Do you want a melee that can heal or a divine that can melee?

[Kodwraith]

Your choice depends a lot of if you want to heal other people or just yourself.

Unbongwah is right, the updated Steel Shrine build is very hard to beat if you want AOE healing while you hit things.

Consider also the Anti-Paladin build: 15 pally / 5 warlock. The split works out great and you can run it as 1Fighter / 14 pally / 5 warlock if you have PDK but dont want to burn a +1 heart. (although 15 pally/5 warlock is better as you don't really need the extra feat, you want the +10% Doublestrike). SWF + orb is a great way to travel.

I run this build at epic cap on my main. It's very very forgiving from the high PRR, high AOE damage and cheap to gear. You only need ONE uber cool weapon (not TWO). I use the Blazing Sun orb and it works out just fine. You also have a max UMD of around 70, which is AWESOME. I run around in Divine Crusader when I'm not leveling up destinies.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/462713-Kodraith-s-Anti-Paladiin-Build

[Kinvesu]

Your choice depends a lot of if you want to heal other people or just yourself.

Unbongwah is right, the updated Steel Shrine build is very hard to beat if you want AOE healing while you hit things.

Consider also the Anti-Paladin build: 15 pally / 5 warlock. The split works out great and you can run it as 1Fighter / 14 pally / 5 warlock if you have PDK but dont want to burn a +1 heart. (although 15 pally/5 warlock is better as you don't really need the extra feat, you want the +10% Doublestrike). SWF + orb is a great way to travel.

I run this build at epic cap on my main. It's very very forgiving from the high PRR, high AOE damage and cheap to gear. You only need ONE uber cool weapon (not TWO). I use the Blazing Sun orb and it works out just fine. You also have a max UMD of around 70, which is AWESOME. I run around in Divine Crusader when I'm not leveling up destinies.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/462713-Kodraith-s-Anti-Paladiin-Build

I prefer to not be a main healer. Only throwing out heal spells on downtime or if someone is in big trouble. I will check out the build, thank you.

[Kinvesu]

Apart from losing the Heal spell, I think a build like Steel Shrine (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449262-Steel-Shrine) will do what you want only better: higher melee DPS, for one thing. It's a pretty flexible build concept too: works with any race & combat style, with or without Evasion. Basically, any combo of pal 14-15 / cleric or FvS 4 / ftr or monk 1-2 works. Likewise, apart from spending 22 APs Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike, you have a lot of flexibility with Enhancements; for DPS focus on KotC, for survivability / tanking focus on Sacred D.

Here's a quick-n-dirty conversion to TWF HE using scimitars in PA:

Valenar Shrine
15/4/1 Paladin/Favored Soul/Fighter
Lawful Good Half-Elf


Level Order

1. Paladin 6. Paladin 11. Paladin 16. Favored Soul
2. Paladin 7. Paladin 12. Paladin 17. Favored Soul
3. Paladin 8. Paladin 13. Paladin 18. Favored Soul
4. Paladin 9. Paladin 14. Paladin 19. Favored Soul
5. Paladin 10. Paladin 15. Fighter 20. Paladin


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 16 +5 4: STR
Dexterity 13 +5 8: STR
Constitution 16 +5 12: STR
Intelligence 9 +5 16: STR
Wisdom 8 +5 20: STR
Charisma 16 +5 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Pa Fi Fv Fv Fv Fv Pa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Intim 1 2 2 2 1 2 1 3 1 1½ ½ 1½ ½ 4 23
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Heal 1 1 2
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
4 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4


Feats

1 : Precision or Power Attack
1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
1 Deity : Follower of: Undying Court
3 : Completionist
6 : Quicken Spell
6 Deity : Undying Call
9 : Two Weapon Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 : Empower Healing Spell
18 Deity : Child of: Undying Court
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic :
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic :
28 Destiny: Elusive Target or First Blood


Enhancements (80 AP)

Half-Elf (4 AP)


Versatile Nature, Human Strength, Human Damage Boost


Knight of the Chalice (36 AP)


Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven


Extra Remove Disease II, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
Improved Restoration III, Divine Sacrifice I, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite I, Strength
Censure Demons, Passion I, Vigor of Life, Empowered Smite
Censure Outsiders, Avenging Cleave III, Sealed Life



Sacred Defender (14 AP)


Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense, Divine Righteousness


Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III
Resilient Defense II
Tenacious Defense III



Warpriest (22 AP)


Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle


Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Inflame III
Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Ameliorating Strike



Kensei (4 AP)


Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades


Haste Boost III




Destiny (24 AP)

Primal Avatar


Ephemeral Evolution III, Rejuvenation Cocoon III
Seeking Balance III
Balanced Attacks III
Symetric Strikes, Autumn Harvest III
Chill of Winter I, Spirit Boon: Physical
Nature's Fury: Crit Multiplier, Avatar of Nature


I tried to optimize for epic performance; you might prefer a different leveling order for heroics. And naturally, tweak the skills as you see fit; if you want to max Heal, bump up INT a pt or two. This Enhancement spread is DPS-focused with good survivability from Sacred D. and Enflame; a more tank-y version would shift APs from KotC to SD.

Thank you for this. I would have to change it for epic leveling, unless otto boxes come out soon. Is twf best for a build like this? Because of the double bonus from righteous weapons or would SWF and the haste and damage multiplier offset that? OR would bastard sword/shield be best of both worlds? I would get glancing blows and shield survivability with SD enhancements.

[unbongwah]

Is twf best for a build like this? Because of the double bonus from righteous weapons or would SWF and the haste and damage multiplier offset that?
TWF is better for double-procs from Smite Foe / Ameliorating Strike and should still have higher single-target DPS than SWF. OTOH, SWF is better than TWF for Cleave atks; plus you only need one weapon instead of two, ofc. And it lets you equip an orb in your offhand for caster bonuses.

So...it depends. :rolleyes:

The real downside to going TWF on this class split is missing out on Tempest enhs, which are great; see my drow paladin thread for a pal 15 / rgr 5 build example. But that's a DPS-oriented split, not a DPS-tank-healer hybrid like this.

OR would bastard sword/shield be best of both worlds? I would get glancing blows and shield survivability with SD enhancements.
That's a completely different build, IMHO, because for S&B you want to invest heavily in Vanguard. Given all the complaints on the forum about the nerfs to VG, I would stick with pure pally if you want S&B; see my Sacred Vanguards thread.

[Kinvesu]

TWF is better for double-procs from Smite Foe / Ameliorating Strike and should still have higher single-target DPS than SWF. OTOH, SWF is better than TWF for Cleave atks; plus you only need one weapon instead of two, ofc. And it lets you equip an orb in your offhand for caster bonuses.

So...it depends. :rolleyes:

The real downside to going TWF on this class split is missing out on Tempest enhs, which are great; see my drow paladin thread for a pal 15 / rgr 5 build example. But that's a DPS-oriented split, not a DPS-tank-healer hybrid like this.

That's a completely different build, IMHO, because for S&B you want to invest heavily in Vanguard. Given all the complaints on the forum about the nerfs to VG, I would stick with pure pally if you want S&B; see my Sacred Vanguards thread.

Ah ok. Makes sense about the fighting styles. Hmm choices. I will stick with this steel shrine build you made for me. But I took 2 paladin, then 4 fvs, then 1 fighter at lvl 7 and then the rest paladin. Since I have to level this. Thank you for all your help also everyone.

Would you say human with longswords and extra feat are better than half elf with scimitars and the rogue dilli? I know longswords used to be one of the worst weapons and scimitars were better but, that was years ago.

[unbongwah]

Forgot to mention one other important factor: TWF has more synergies with Primal Avatar, so if that's your primary ED for this life, then TWF is a good choice.

Would you say human with longswords and extra feat are better than half elf with scimitars and the rogue dilli? I know longswords used to be one of the worst weapons and scimitars were better but, that was years ago.
When it comes to crafted / lootgen weapons, scimitars beat longswords; but khopesh beats scimitar and humans get an extra feat. With named weapons, it varies: there are several good longswords (http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Long_Swords), inc. Nightforge Blade, Oathblade, and Fellblade (which is what Steel Shrine uses); named scimitars (http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Scimitars) are more limited, once you filter out the different min-lvl versions of the same weapon, and only a couple have expanded crit ranges.

The real advantages of human over HE are the extra feat, more skill pts, and cheaper access to Dmg Boost + heal amp.

But like I said, this is a pretty flexible build concept; if you have to choose between doing what you want and doing what the minmaxers tell you, always do what you want, IMO. After all, it's not like the minmaxers will level your build for you! ;)

[Kinvesu]

Forgot to mention one other important factor: TWF has more synergies with Primal Avatar, so if that's your primary ED for this life, then TWF is a good choice.

When it comes to crafted / lootgen weapons, scimitars beat longswords; but khopesh beats scimitar and humans get an extra feat. With named weapons, it varies: there are several good longswords (http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Long_Swords), inc. Nightforge Blade, Oathblade, and Fellblade (which is what Steel Shrine uses); named scimitars (http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Scimitars) are more limited, once you filter out the different min-lvl versions of the same weapon, and only a couple have expanded crit ranges.

The real advantages of human over HE are the extra feat, more skill pts, and cheaper access to Dmg Boost + heal amp.

But like I said, this is a pretty flexible build concept; if you have to choose between doing what you want and doing what the minmaxers tell you, always do what you want, IMO. After all, it's not like the minmaxers will level your build for you! ;)

hah, thank you sir. I appreciate yours and everyone elses help and time. Still have a lot of learning to do.