Two Nerfs under the belt...

[Pnumbra]

Is there any warlock being played that utilizes the following ES enhancements?

Tier Three:
Fortify Summons: Your summoned creatures, hirelings, and pets get 25%/50%/100% fortification, +5/+10/+20 PRR, and +5/+10/+20 MRR.

Tier Four:
Imbue Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +10/+20/+30 Melee, Ranged, and Universal Spell Power.

Tier Five:
Displace Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain a permanent 25% Concealment, as per the item effect "Lesser Displacement", and 10% Dodge.

If ES was to be the melee version of the warlock, what of these druid/artificer enhancements? I have inquired several times about the intention of this placement and all I have heard is that the intent was for splashing a few warlock levels into druid or artificer builds. I don't or haven't heard of anyone doing this. This is not low hanging fruit for that 1-2 level splash. The cheapest will cost 11AP to get and require three levels of warlock.

If the nerfs were about "balance", why not balance the ES tree? How about offering the tree true melee enhancements and move these to the new druid/artificer trees to come?

[unbongwah]

AFAIK, the Dryad Elder in Primal Avatar is still considered the only remotely useful summon for epics. So while it's kind of a gimp / flavor build choice, I was thinking of a warlock tree build who invests in ES & Harper summoning buffs for the dryad; can add in Augment Summoning feat, druid PLs, etc.

It's probably still a waste of APs and EDPs, but I thought it could be funny.

[Enoach]

I gave these enhancements a go on my warlock life. But I was mixing things up to try out all the enhancements.

Now in heroic content I feel that the enhancements did a good job in improve survivability of summons as well as hirelings.

However, Epic levels summons and hirelings have other issues that need to be addressed if summons are to be effective options for players.

[Pnumbra]

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I am on my fifth epic warlock life and have never used or found a use for hirelings/summons in my day-to-day questing. This coming from a player who in his earlier day would run 3-4 to form a party on a daily basis - so naive.

At such a high tier, I was wondering if anyone is actually playing with these enhancements on a main or secondary character. I will admit from inception, these enhancements seemed out of place and a loss of good upper tier capability for melee based warlocks.

Still, like some have noted, after toying with them, they are discarded.

[Vooduspyce]

Is there any warlock being played that utilizes the following ES enhancements?

Tier Three:
Fortify Summons: Your summoned creatures, hirelings, and pets get 25%/50%/100% fortification, +5/+10/+20 PRR, and +5/+10/+20 MRR.

Tier Four:
Imbue Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain +10/+20/+30 Melee, Ranged, and Universal Spell Power.

Tier Five:
Displace Summons: Your summoned creatures/hirelings/pets gain a permanent 25% Concealment, as per the item effect "Lesser Displacement", and 10% Dodge.

If ES was to be the melee version of the warlock, what of these druid/artificer enhancements? I have inquired several times about the intention of this placement and all I have heard is that the intent was for splashing a few warlock levels into druid or artificer builds. I don't or haven't heard of anyone doing this. This is not low hanging fruit for that 1-2 level splash. The cheapest will cost 11AP to get and require three levels of warlock.

If the nerfs were about "balance", why not balance the ES tree? How about offering the tree true melee enhancements and move these to the new druid/artificer trees to come?

I always assumed the fortify summons line was for people that wanted to do warlock charm builds.

[unbongwah]

I always assumed the fortify summons line was for people that wanted to do warlock charm builds.
Hmmm, interesting point: it doesn't specifically mention "charmed minions" like Augment Summoning (http://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Summoning) does, so I presumed it only applied to things which the player summoned. But it's not like this would be the first time the in-game description and the actual effects didn't match...

[DrWily]

Hmmm, interesting point: it doesn't specifically mention "charmed minions" like Augment Summoning (http://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Summoning) does, so I presumed it only applied to things which the player summoned. But it's not like this would be the first time the in-game description and the actual effects didn't match...

As someone who has run a GOldLock, I can confirm that it also affects charmed/thralled enemies.

[Enoach]

Hmmm, interesting point: it doesn't specifically mention "charmed minions" like Augment Summoning (http://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Summoning) does, so I presumed it only applied to things which the player summoned. But it's not like this would be the first time the in-game description and the actual effects didn't match...


As someone who has run a GOldLock, I can confirm that it also affects charmed/thralled enemies.

I also can confirm that it effects charmed/thralled enemies.

However, charmed/thralled minions at epic levels is still at a point were a different matter needs to be resolved.

I think it is the viability at epic levels for the style of play it was intended for that is the biggest reason why you do not see this used in wide scale. Many players I've run with that plan on being in Epic content will skip stuff in heroic content that does not work well in Epic content. Mainly to avoid the respecing. Again I found the abilities to work rather well in Heroic content.

[unbongwah]

Hey, I keep saying there are two different versions of DDO: Epic Elite and Everything Else. :p And you have to decide pretty early on which DDO you're building your characters to play...

[DrWily]

My warlock tree build was going to use them but supreme cleave is bugged so build has to use twinblade instead. I even made an Ooze GS weapon just for the build. :(

Monk isn't bugged, but there are no GS handwraps. So double :(

Ahhhhhhhh, I never even thought of GS Ooze. You sneaky little devil you.

[RotR]

.....

If the nerfs were about "balance", why not balance the ES tree? How about offering the tree true melee enhancements and move these to the new druid/artificer trees to come?
OK, noobie question...
What is "nerfs" I have been seeing this word but don't know what it means.

[Morroiel]

OK, noobie question...
What is "nerfs" I have been seeing this word but don't know what it means.

Nerf - a change to a game that makes something less effective or desirable

Google is your friend :)

[slarden]

OK, noobie question...
What is "nerfs" I have been seeing this word but don't know what it means.

Basically it means Turbine deemed something too powerful and out of balance so they removed some of the power.

U28 patch 1 was full of these type of "nerfs" such as the removal of MRR from armor, reduction of warlock damage, reduction of weapon critical ranges, reduction of divine grace benefit for people that splash only a few levels of paladin, etc.

[Kompera_Oberon]

OK, noobie question...
What is "nerfs" I have been seeing this word but don't know what it means.
If you're not in the US or anywhere else they might be sold, it's from the Nerf line of toys. Things like guns that fire soft foam 'bullets' and replicas of sports gear (footballs, baseballs, etc) also made of a soft foam. They can't hurt you, thus a nerf makes your character less able to hurt the monsters.

[RotR]

If you're not in the US or anywhere else they might be sold, it's from the Nerf line of toys. Things like guns that fire soft foam 'bullets' and replicas of sports gear (footballs, baseballs, etc) also made of a soft foam. They can't hurt you, thus a nerf makes your character less able to hurt the monsters.
thanks for the reply, I now understand.
Also, thanks for the fore-warning of things to possible or will happen.

[ZandisHere]

I have a 10 pale 10 warlock that uses these buffs to keep his poor skelly in action in epic slayer land. He acts at 14, has stoneskin, blur, haste along with a cat and two owlbears if no one is grouping other than raids or "EE stay out casual builds". My party + 1 hire cleric to heal the animals can run around in slayer areas at 21 that host lvl 30 dragons with no great problems. Only sp occasionally and that is because none of the high end cleric hires seem to take dvs. At 24 now just slaying my way through final 4 as I feel like it.

Alts use the buffs for charms and hires . A barb hire that survives charging the redname? --good enh, good boy. And me bursting and occasionally bumping his temp HP back up with cheap aoe spell (featherfall at low levels, haste later). There are uses and users, go dig for slots elsewhere...

[STROBE]

I have a lvl 20 warlock flavor build I only play in heroic content that uses all of the above, to good effect. I utilize create undead (for flavor), and the wraith is especially effective. I have experimented with summons for years in heroic content, and this line of summons buffs/enhancements have performed the best of any I have tried, and for what I consider a reasonable investment. I also have the augment summons feat.

[Pnumbra]

I have a 10 pale 10 warlock that uses these buffs to keep his poor skelly in action in epic slayer land. He acts at 14, has stoneskin, blur, haste along with a cat and two owlbears if no one is grouping other than raids or "EE stay out casual builds". My party + 1 hire cleric to heal the animals can run around in slayer areas at 21 that host lvl 30 dragons with no great problems. Only sp occasionally and that is because none of the high end cleric hires seem to take dvs. At 24 now just slaying my way through final 4 as I feel like it.

Alts use the buffs for charms and hires . A barb hire that survives charging the redname? --good enh, good boy. And me bursting and occasionally bumping his temp HP back up with cheap aoe spell (featherfall at low levels, haste later). There are uses and users, go dig for slots elsewhere...

Seems off, but ok. I haven't seen any level 14 pet make a difference in epic level quest...they are just fodder. Especially one that is several levels under most epic quest.

[Pnumbra]

Eldritch Wave: Cooldown: 8 seconds.
Icon Feat Warlock.png (Metamagic: Empower, Maximize, Quicken. Spell Resistance: No)

You create a cone of eldritch energy that strikes all opponents in the area with three consecutives Eldritch Blasts. The damage from these Eldritch Blasts scales with 150% spell power.

[Morroiel]

Eldritch Wave: Cooldown: 8 seconds.
Icon Feat Warlock.png (Metamagic: Empower, Maximize, Quicken. Spell Resistance: No)

You create a cone of eldritch energy that strikes all opponents in the area with three consecutives Eldritch Blasts. The damage from these Eldritch Blasts scales with 150% spell power.

My guess is the dev's want more diversity (most people don't play T5 souleater). I think it could be knocked down a little bit and still be fine. Also keep in mind that it is on a slightly longer cooldown than spirit blast/eldritch blast. Still very good (though a little buggy at times).