First mech: some advices? Drow or human?

[Valniel]

Hey guys ! I read the forum a little (I saw few pure and a lot of arty splash) and I was thinking about something like that. Any advice or suggestion? I dunno the class at all.
Is the spell resistance worth taking drow and investing a little in racial tree? Is human better?

Thx !


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.28.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 240
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 17
Will: 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 8 12 12
Dexterity 16 20 20
Constitution 14 18 18
Intelligence 20 29 35
Wisdom 8 12 12
Charisma 10 14 14

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 9 28 28
Bluff 6 25 25
Concentration 4 4 4
Diplomacy 6 25 25
Disable Device 11 35 38
Haggle 2 10 10
Heal 3 12.5 12.5
Hide 9 28 31
Intimidate 2 3 3
Jump 5 24 24
Listen 5 24 27
Move Silently 9 28 31
Open Lock 9 28 31
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 7 12 15
Search 11 35 38
Spellcraft 7 12 12
Spot 5 24 27
Swim 1 24 24
Tumble n/a 28 28
Use Magic Device 6 25 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Warlock
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Detection (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Lacerating Shots (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Fletching (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Fletching (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Fletching (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Leg Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sharpshooter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Sniper (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanical Reloader (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Agent of Good (Rank 1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Harper Enchantment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Strategic Combat I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Know The Angles (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Know The Angles (Rank 2)





PS: I totally forgot but I have +4 sovereign tome, and some past life (2pally, 1 bard, 1 warlock, pdk, bladeforged, brace, skill mastery)

[unbongwah]

Drow gets +2 base DEX & INT and up to +2 INT from enhancements, which is obviously useful to a Mechanic; human gets 1 extra feat and racial Damage Boost (stacks with Ranged Power Boost), which is also obviously useful to a Mechanic. :) So it's a question of which perks you want more; usually human is preferred, even though drow can hit higher max INT.

Is this just for a heroic PL or do you plan to run epics?

[Valniel]

Drow gets +2 base DEX & INT and up to +2 INT from enhancements, which is obviously useful to a Mechanic; human gets 1 extra feat and racial Damage Boost (stacks with Ranged Power Boost), which is also obviously useful to a Mechanic. :) So it's a question of which perks you want more; usually human is preferred, even though drow can hit higher max INT.

Is this just for a heroic PL or do you plan to run epics?


Thanks ! So a drow should have better sustainable dps and human better burst dps? Unless one feat manage to make a big difference between them.



I'm not sure yet, first ranged char, if I like it I'll do one epic past life or tr into shadar kai and then make one etr and one itr. To sum up, it's quite possible I'll run epics with a mech rogue.

[unbongwah]

I would say the extra feat is more important if you want to stay pure rogue. On human you can take: PBS (1), Rapid Reload (1), Rapid Shot (3), Precision (6), Prec Shot (9), IC:Ranged (12), Imp Prec Shot (15), Insightful Reflexes (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), Holy Strike (26), Imp Sneak Atk (27), Doubleshot (28). On a non-human, you have to drop either Insightful Reflexes or a DPS feat.

EDIT: since this is an HTR, I would suggest taking heavy repeater prof. as your lvl 3 feat so you can use them right away; then swap it for Rapid Shot before taking lvl 12, which is when you gain hvy repeaters free from Mechanic. Or you can tweak the feat order so you take hvy repeater @ lvl 3, Rapid Shot at 6, Precision at 9, then swap hvy repeater for Prec Shot at lvl 12.

[Hobgoblin]

I would say the extra feat is more important if you want to stay pure rogue. On human you can take: PBS (1), Rapid Reload (1), Rapid Shot (3), Precision (6), Prec Shot (9), IC:Ranged (12), Imp Prec Shot (15), Insightful Reflexes (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), Holy Strike (26), Imp Sneak Atk (27), Doubleshot (28). On a non-human, you have to drop either Insightful Reflexes or a DPS feat.

^this

also, if you go human you can spread out your ap lil bit better

for 1 pt - you get the good burst damage - for 3 pts you get 1 more int

so you can do something like this -

47 pts mech 24 pts assassin 15 pts harper.

on a drow you reduce that by alot - you will be spending more pts in drow for more int, and some perhaps better defenses

[unbongwah]

47 pts mech 24 pts assassin 15 pts harper.
47 + 24 + 15 = 86. And that's without human tree.

I would say 41-44 APs Mechanic, 23 APs Assassin (max Killer), 3 APs Acrobat (Fast Movement), 1 AP human (Dmg Boost), with everything else dumped into Harper (KtA, up to +5 Ranged Power).

[Livmo]

For extra feat and heal amp from the racial tree. I roll UMD so I get the hjeals out of wjands and scjrolls.

[Valniel]

I would say the extra feat is more important if you want to stay pure rogue. On human you can take: PBS (1), Rapid Reload (1), Rapid Shot (3), Precision (6), Prec Shot (9), IC:Ranged (12), Imp Prec Shot (15), Insightful Reflexes (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), Holy Strike (26), Imp Sneak Atk (27), Doubleshot (28). On a non-human, you have to drop either Insightful Reflexes or a DPS feat.

EDIT: since this is an HTR, I would suggest taking heavy repeater prof. as your lvl 3 feat so you can use them right away; then swap it for Rapid Shot before taking lvl 12, which is when you gain hvy repeaters free from Mechanic. Or you can tweak the feat order so you take hvy repeater @ lvl 3, Rapid Shot at 6, Precision at 9, then swap hvy repeater for Prec Shot at lvl 12.


Ty, and ty everyone. Yes, swaping isn't a problem at all.

I still don't know what to choose. Human seems to be a better choice because one more feat and using 3 less ap in racial would be nice. Drow would make some change too, my 2 pally life was human and bard too kinda. If I take drow, what dps feat should I drop?

And what about abilities? Seems good? Should I drop some dex for more con?

Combat archery without a better tome (I won't have +5) can be a problem for drow (1 point) and a bigger one for human I guess.

Can a drow with 2 arty splash can be better than pure drow or pure human? The capstone from mech doesn't seems to make a huge difference but it's the same for the benefit of 2 arty (don't care about conjure bolts for example) ... Maybe I'm wrong.

[Hobgoblin]

Ty, and ty everyone. Yes, swaping isn't a problem at all.

I still don't know what to choose. Human seems to be a better choice because one more feat and using 3 less ap in racial would be nice. Drow would make some change too, my 2 pally life was human and bard too kinda. If I take drow, what dps feat should I drop?

And what about abilities? Seems good? Should I drop some dex for more con?

i like human better - but drow is still solid

if you are going to drop a feat - drop insight reflexes you will still have a decent save

for your stats i wouldn't drop dex any - i would find a way to get 1 more point of dex or get a +5 dex tome
you want compat archery and you need a 21 dex for that

just some thoughts

[Hobgoblin]

47 + 24 + 15 = 86. And that's without human tree.

I would say 41-44 APs Mechanic, 23 APs Assassin (max Killer), 3 APs Acrobat (Fast Movement), 1 AP human (Dmg Boost), with everything else dumped into Harper (KtA, up to +5 Ranged Power).

details!

i was just going from memory on my pallyrog and i know at one point i had 47 pts in mech.

[Saekee]

i like human better - but drow is still solid

if you are going to drop a feat - drop insight reflexes you will still have a decent save

for your stats i wouldn't drop dex any - i would find a way to get 1 more point of dex or get a +5 dex tome
you want compat archery and you need a 21 dex for that

just some thoughts

Seconded! Combat Archery adds +1W which is excellent on a Great XBow given its massive base damage. It would be better to divert level ups to Dex in order to get it over the bonuses from a couple of level-ups in INT.

[Hobgoblin]

Seconded! Combat Archery adds +1W which is excellent on a Great XBow given its massive base damage. It would be better to divert level ups to Dex in order to get it over the bonuses from a couple of level-ups in INT.

with his current stats he only needs one. he has a 16 dex - and a +4 tome

[unbongwah]

Sample human build specced for great xbow (Divine Artillery (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Divine_Artillery) FTW!):

Pure Mechanic
Rogue 20
True Neutral Human


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 +4 4: INT
Dexterity 16 +4 8: INT
Constitution 16 +4 12: INT
Intelligence 18 +4 16: INT
Wisdom 8 +4 20: INT
Charisma 8 +4 24: DEX
28: INT

Feats

1 : Rapid Reload
1 Human : Point Blank Shot
3 : Rapid Shot
6 : Precision
9 : Precise Shot
10 Rogue : Improved Evasion
12 : Improved Critical: Ranged
13 Rogue : Opportunist
15 : Improved Precise Shot
16 Rogue : Defensive Roll
18 : Insightful Reflexes
19 Rogue : Crippling Strike
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Holy Strike
27 Epic : Improved Sneak Attack
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (1 AP)


Damage Boost


Mechanic (41 AP)


Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder, Hip Flask

Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Thunderstone III
Sharpshooter, Improved Traps III, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Sharpshooter, Ooze Flask III
Sharpshooter, Fletching III
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader



Assassin (23 AP)


Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick

Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy II
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training
Killer III



Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)


Staff Control

Fast Movement



Harper Agent (12 AP)


Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept I



For repeaters, the only tweak is you would drop Lacerating Shots and maybe Sniper, which only adds +1d6 SA to repeaters; that would let you pick up Time Bomb instead.

EDIT: if you happen to pick up a +4->+5 DEX upgrade tome by lvl 24, you can put your lvl 24 stat pt into INT instead of DEX.

[Valniel]

Ty for advice, I took drow but I agree that's human is better (I hate non stacking SR grrrr)(feats are life changer for rogue... I realized that).

The two first lvl was kinda hard but since 3 and light repeater, I'm having a blast, ty !

I got a vampire slayer augment for divine artillery and an endless night one for fatal flaw, can't wait to get them and to be high enough to use them.

[Saekee]

Ty for advice, I took drow but I agree that's human is better (I hate non stacking SR grrrr)(feats are life changer for rogue... I realized that).

The two first lvl was kinda hard but since 3 and light repeater, I'm having a blast, ty !

I got a vampire slayer augment for divine artillery and an endless night one for fatal flaw, can't wait to get them and to be high enough to use them.

You don't get repeater proficiency from the mech cores until level 6, though, sonI suggest you use a Great Xbow until then.

[Valniel]

You don't get repeater proficiency from the mech cores until level 6, though, sonI suggest you use a Great Xbow until then.

I followed unbonwagh advice and take the proficiency as a feat and I swaped at 6. ^^



I have one last question, is an acid/deception II light repeater good enough for me to use festival solar on it in order to have a better weapon before divine artillery/fatal flaw?

A crafted one would be better with this buff? I don't think I can use a crafted one with festival solar ...

[EllisDee37]

I have one last question, is an acid/deception II light repeater good enough for me to use festival solar on it in order to have a better weapon before divine artillery/fatal flaw?It's a pretty good sounding lootgen, for sure. If it's easy for you to farm up festival solar, I say go for it. Better would be a repeater that bypasses DR/Good, but Holy of Deception is probably tough to find.

If it were me, I'd go with crafted great crossbows: Keen of Righteous to start, then add +4 @ ML8 for the paragon bonus. But I'm a great crossbow kind of guy. I just love the cc on vorpal and using a third of the ammo.

[Valniel]

It's a pretty good sounding lootgen, for sure. If it's easy for you to farm up festival solar, I say go for it. Better would be a repeater that bypasses DR/Good, but Holy of Deception is probably tough to find.

If it were me, I'd go with crafted great crossbows: Keen of Righteous to start, then add +4 @ ML8 for the paragon bonus. But I'm a great crossbow kind of guy. I just love the cc on vorpal and using a third of the ammo.

Ty,but I'll stick with repeater until I reach tier 5.

Weapon recipes bookmarked by the way ;-)

[KoobTheProud]

Ty,but I'll stick with repeater until I reach tier 5.

Weapon recipes bookmarked by the way ;-)

In epics you're going to want a Keen III Great Xbow. Just insane damage with all the Mech enhancements added on top and KtA and Strategic Combat.

I equipped a Keen III at level 22 and was staring at a 93.10 damage number on the tooltip.

[Nuclear_Elvis]

Just throwing 2 cents in...
I don't think the logic is sound toward Rogue/Mech taking repeater as a feat early on, in contrast to the now improved Great Crossbow's speed as-is, which can then use one or two early feat slots to further boost its speed (instead of wasting the feat on the repeater weapon, that is then not as fast since the feat slot went to the weapon). In those early levels, that Great Xbow is mowing down the lowly critters just as fast (if not faster), without all the need to undo feats. Perhaps the only extra work for this path, as mentioned, is to get a couple decent crafted Great Xbows with level 4 and 8-ish wields.
And, as further mentioned by others, the Great Xbow really shines even more later on. Folks, the Great Crossbow is the BFG in this game, even with the slight adjustments recently.
As a last logic point, those bolts are being consumed, on average for most players, from vendor-purchased and/or looted stacks of bolts, so the more damage per bolt, the less cost per kill also (not that the economic argument is strong or very worthwhile for most players).

[FranOhmsford]

I would say the extra feat is more important if you want to stay pure rogue. On human you can take: PBS (1), Rapid Reload (1), Rapid Shot (3), Precision (6), Prec Shot (9), IC:Ranged (12), Imp Prec Shot (15), Insightful Reflexes (18), Overwhelming Crit (21), Combat Archery (24), Holy Strike (26), Imp Sneak Atk (27), Doubleshot (28). On a non-human, you have to drop either Insightful Reflexes or a DPS feat.

EDIT: since this is an HTR, I would suggest taking heavy repeater prof. as your lvl 3 feat so you can use them right away; then swap it for Rapid Shot before taking lvl 12, which is when you gain hvy repeaters free from Mechanic. Or you can tweak the feat order so you take hvy repeater @ lvl 3, Rapid Shot at 6, Precision at 9, then swap hvy repeater for Prec Shot at lvl 12.

Insightful Reflexes should be taken long before Lvl 18!

Has the OP considered an Arti Splash for free Rapid Reload, free heavy repeater prof, a lever puller puppy and possibly Rune-Arm?

[Valniel]

Just throwing 2 cents in...
I don't think the logic is sound toward Rogue/Mech taking repeater as a feat early on, in contrast to the now improved Great Crossbow's speed as-is, which can then use one or two early feat slots to further boost its speed (instead of wasting the feat on the repeater weapon, that is then not as fast since the feat slot went to the weapon). In those early levels, that Great Xbow is mowing down the lowly critters just as fast (if not faster), without all the need to undo feats. Perhaps the only extra work for this path, as mentioned, is to get a couple decent crafted Great Xbows with level 4 and 8-ish wields.
And, as further mentioned by others, the Great Xbow really shines even more later on. Folks, the Great Crossbow is the BFG in this game, even with the slight adjustments recently.
As a last logic point, those bolts are being consumed, on average for most players, from vendor-purchased and/or looted stacks of bolts, so the more damage per bolt, the less cost per kill also (not that the economic argument is strong or very worthwhile for most players).

I've tested both (currently lvl 8) and I don't exactly see how a great xbow can compete with repeater before tier 5, maybe I was doing something wrong with crafting.
Well, except for a first lifer, swaping and plats aren't a problem at all, so it was kinda easy to swap and to use 1k bolt per hour (kinda boring but still it's viable for now) xD


Insightful Reflexes should be taken long before Lvl 18!

Has the OP considered an Arti Splash for free Rapid Reload, free heavy repeater prof, a lever puller puppy and possibly Rune-Arm?

Yes, but I'm not sure if it's worth losing the capstone.

[Saekee]

In epics you're going to want a Keen III Great Xbow. Just insane damage with all the Mech enhancements added on top and KtA and Strategic Combat.

I equipped a Keen III at level 22 and was staring at a 93.10 damage number on the tooltip.

That is very smart. The damage W of greatXbows is insanely large to start, so those +.Ws add up. This is an uncommon strategy.

[TheRedViking]

In epics you're going to want a Keen III Great Xbow. Just insane damage with all the Mech enhancements added on top and KtA and Strategic Combat.

I equipped a Keen III at level 22 and was staring at a 93.10 damage number on the tooltip.

Why would keen 3 be necessary? Surely a ranged character has IC-Ranged and the two do not stack.

[Valniel]

Why would keen 3 be necessary? Surely a ranged character has IC-Ranged and the two do not stack.

Just for the extra W.

[Saekee]

In epics you're going to want a Keen III Great Xbow. Just insane damage with all the Mech enhancements added on top and KtA and Strategic Combat.

I equipped a Keen III at level 22 and was staring at a 93.10 damage number on the tooltip.
TF boosts the W tiers too. Note that Risia is around the corner to lower that lootgen's min level

[Valniel]

Hi !

I'm rogue 14 arty 2 and I have enough xp for lvl 17. I'm having a blast for now (even if my dps is a bit less effective in lvl 15-16 quest with some monsters with more than 1k hp)

I'm wearing the devil's gambit set for now (everything but the necklace, I'll use golden guile)

Do you have any advice for early epic gear that doesn't require to grind too much (I have epic eye of the beholder with +2 spooky int for later)?

Usually I just use comm' gears but I don't think it can work with this one.


(the utility vest and the epic golden guilde looks nice but I only have scroll for upgrade ...)