Rapid Reload or IC?

[Marshal_Lannes]

The idealized Mechanic layout for non-human pure rogues looks something like this...

PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Insightful Reflexes, IPS, Precision, IC Ranged

Epic - OC, Combat Archery, Imp Sneak Attack

With the changes made to IC, the xbow only gets a +1 from IC. Is Rapid Reload now a better choice than IC? Anyone have any idea how many more bolts you fire per minute with rapid reload vs not having it? Does this increased number now outweight the reduced critical range or is OC still so juicy one wants IC for that alone?

[EllisDee37]

With the changes made to IC, the xbow only gets a +1 from IC. Is Rapid Reload now a better choice than IC?Are you using a regular crossbow instead of a fancy rogue crossbow? Or maybe you conflated them with longbows?

Repeaters gain +2 range from Improved Crit (19-20x2 normally)
Great Crossbows gain +3 range from Improved Crit (18-20x2 normally)

I would drop OC, I think. But then again, I'd either go human or splash /2 artie so I could get them all.

[Tom116]

The idealized Mechanic layout for non-human pure rogues looks something like this...

PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Insightful Reflexes, IPS, Precision, IC Ranged

Epic - OC, Combat Archery, Imp Sneak Attack

With the changes made to IC, the xbow only gets a +1 from IC. Is Rapid Reload now a better choice than IC? Anyone have any idea how many more bolts you fire per minute with rapid reload vs not having it? Does this increased number now outweight the reduced critical range or is OC still so juicy one wants IC for that alone?

Not sure which crossbow you've got that's only getting a +1 from IC, like EllisDee said repeaters and great xbows get more than that and those are the ones mech's should be using.

I would pick IC over rapid reload, the +2/+3 to crit threat range is too good to pass up.

Honestly I would probably splash /2 arti since the mech capstone isn't THAT much of a draw anyways and /2 arti grabs you some free feats, and rune arm use for extra damage procs.

If you had to stay pure though, would probably dump...either OC or Imp SA, hard call :/

Remember that the capstone heals aren't much, not often enough, and at 20 there's ED's for healing anyways. Arti also gives free magical training :)

[Marshal_Lannes]

Hmm guess I misread the crit bonus on xbows. Well I will keep IC then. I don't like artificers or their lore so went pure rogue elf. Went into the AA tree and its been kinda fun. Not sure if it is better than the assassin tree but I can try out both easy enough.

[Enderoc]

I would ditch the insightful reflexes, you are a rogue...a rogue that should have at least the minimum dex for Combat Archery and that has chosen Improved Evasion. You really should not be hurting in the save department. Insightful reflex is more for artificers, wizards, and other class harper agents with high intelligence but poor reflex saves. Take Rapid Reload instead.

People like overkill, I got my trapping skills so high...I could do elite 3-4 above my level without any sort of item assistance and never blew a trap that whole life. So yeah you could save from everything no problem, but I bet you could find ways besides screwing up your dps to get the same results. If you are going to overkill anything...do it with your damage rating.

Heck I would even consider taking a skill focus disable to improve the DC on crafted traps before insightful reflexes if my adjusted dex was high enough. But in your feat list, that would have to be a human build. Something to consider.

[unbongwah]

For xbows, Rapid Reload beats Rapid Shot; if you can only take one, it should be RR. But frankly, I would splash for extra feat(s) and give up Mechanic capstone before I gave up the ideal ranged feat list (PBS/RR/RS/Prec/PS/IC:R/IPS/OC/CA/ISA) with Insightful Reflexes in there somewhere.

[Marshal_Lannes]

For xbows, Rapid Reload beats Rapid Shot; if you can only take one, it should be RR. But frankly, I would splash for extra feat(s) and give up Mechanic capstone before I gave up the ideal ranged feat list (PBS/RR/RS/Prec/PS/IC:R/IPS/OC/CA/ISA) with Insightful Reflexes in there somewhere.

Do you have some numbers that back up Rapid Reload being better than Rapid shot? There is no way to tell from the feat descriptions. I consider Insightful Reflexes a must have. At level 16 my mechanic has +7 saves from this vs Dex. That is a ton and will only get larger. It also allows me to completely ignore Dex aside from feat requirements and concentrate on two skills, CON and INT (keeping CHA high for UMD also I guess). It is certainly far better than a boost to disable device as the previous poster suggests. Since I don't know how many extra bolts per minute you get from either RR or RS I have no way of knowing what the extra DPS is vs, in this case saves are. Does anyone know what this is?

[unbongwah]

Do you have some numbers that back up Rapid Reload being better than Rapid shot?
Most recent post I can find testing repeaters is this one (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/443151-Interesting-Attack-Speed-Data-(acrobat-bonus-only-applies-when-standing-still)?p=5586186&viewfull=1#post5586186). You can see at BAB 1, Rapid Reload provides a bigger boost to firing rate than RS (40.5 vs 37.3 volleys per min); you can also see that they stack, which is why you want both.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Fascinating numbers Unbongwah, thanks for the link. Looks like RR and RS increase attack speed by almost 40%. That is huge and a much larger margin than alacrity is giving. I think I am going to drop Precision from the list then for RR, then will have to decide if I want to use one of my epic feats to be precision or OC.

[unbongwah]

Again, I would ditch either Insightful Reflexes or the capstone by splashing rather than give up one of your DPS feats. Precision is important for high-fortification mobs; you can get 25% (Precision feat) + 15% (Grim Precision ED Twist) + 10% (Opportunist) +35% (Dragon's Edge TF xbow) = 85% Fortification bypass. Assassin's Trick boosts this to 110%.

[Enderoc]

Do you have some numbers that back up Rapid Reload being better than Rapid shot? There is no way to tell from the feat descriptions. I consider Insightful Reflexes a must have. At level 16 my mechanic has +7 saves from this vs Dex. That is a ton and will only get larger. It also allows me to completely ignore Dex aside from feat requirements and concentrate on two skills, CON and INT (keeping CHA high for UMD also I guess). It is certainly far better than a boost to disable device as the previous poster suggests. Since I don't know how many extra bolts per minute you get from either RR or RS I have no way of knowing what the extra DPS is vs, in this case saves are. Does anyone know what this is?

I could get my disable device past a hundred easy. If you ever want to do traps....and you want them to work in EE above level, and being ranged...well...Trust me, your reflex saves will be fine, if you need to jump through traps and are worried pull out a necklace or something. Adding to your disable device for a trap maker is like adding a spell focus for a caster.

But I would only do that if I were Human, I would drop rapid reload for rapid shot and take nimble fingers as well.... I would build for it taking any enhancement I could to get it as high as I could from any tree...Human, Harper, Mech and with skill boosts and items... You could be a devious little Mech.

Then you could challenge yourself to do quests at higher levels than the norm... trust me that is fun, but also trust that most people like it easy so its hard to find groups for that. I hope that changes someday. The higher the level quest the better the XP, and it feels earned...rather than becoming a grind.

A rogue that can do traps at several levels higher than what is required.... is necessary to do that. I might do that next life. Make a perfect mechanic...state my rogue skills and ask for brave adventurers willing to take up quests at least 4 levels higher (if frightened check against the wiki for the DCs on traps). I am sure there are many who can do them with you. Now will they? I am afraid there are too many with a comfort zone. But I myself have gone about with a few.

Hopefully some level restrictions would be dropped on some quests that have them to be able to do this more. An easy fix to increasing difficulty with the rewards already generated in.

think also: Time Bomb: Cooldown: 20 seconds. Spell Resistance: No
Alchemical Trap Attack: Quickly creates an alchemical charge at your feet. Deals 10/25/50 sonic and 10/25/50 fire damage per rogue level to all nearby enemies after 2 seconds, and knocks them to the ground. Reflex (DC [10/14/18] + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier + Trap Bonus)) for half damage. Balance DC ( Disable Device check) (Listed Balance DC (10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier + Trap Bonus) to Negate knockdown.
Note: Time Bomb seems to be able to Spell Critical, while not being subject to spell power itself

So your Disable Device skill is more than just picking locks...it does AOE with Knockdown roughly three times a minute given a few. Set your area of retreat go into the next area to lure them in and... Bombs away. All your traps with scaling with 100 percent of your Disable Device will make the caster jealous.

Improved Traps: +1/+2/+3 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.
Note: Appears to scale Magical Trap DC in the same way as Elemental Traps, giving them incredibly high DCs.

Almost makes you want to be a heavy armor demolitions expert. Of course you wouldnt be a solo build then with all your armor and shield feats with combat expertise just using your crossbow to draw....but if you had a static group you might just be inclined to do that kind of job....especially if shooting for higher level questing. It would be experimental for sure, we did get free hearts though. Maybe something fun to try before a TR. A Dwarf in Unyielding with twists from ShadowDancer and Legendary Dreadnaught for skills, and Improved Combat Expertise.....would be ideal for that.

Okay back into the box for me ...lol

[Marshal_Lannes]

Hmm those are some interesting thoughts on mechanic play. Personally I do not like chasing DCs which never seem to work in epics beyond EN. I have had success with web traps. Took rapid reload and it is a huge, noticable difference.