Swashbuckler Weapon Comparison

[nomadicc]

(Re-post from the crafting forum... probably more appropriate here)

Hello, looking for some help from the mathpro's here...

I have a 15bard/3ftr/2rog in the high epic levels. Looking for some advice on "endgame" weapons. I don't have enough phlogs to make a MF weapon.

My 4 main options are:
1) Upgraded Celestia - blinding procs are awesome
2) T2 TF Rapier- would take 1st deg burns and dragon's edge most likely
3) Upgraded ToEE Rapier - paired with armor for set bonus
4) Epic Dice - decent with 20% AP, ins sneak att +6, greater maiming and sov vorp

On the surface, its seems the ToEE set would win due to the +20 MP, but I wanted to get a 2nd opinion before I burn shrooms to make the rapier.

[phalaeo]

Depends on a few things.

First, do you have the mushrooms to upgrade both the armor and the weapon from ToEE? In terms of grindy-ness, I'd rather farm out the Phlogs, and the TF is the better weapon for trash mobs with Mortal Fear.

I tested with a Balizarde, a Celestia, Epic Dice and TF.

If I were to pick between CITW weapons, Balizarde is ahead of Celestia in my numbers. It also has the advantage of having a red slot.

Epic Dice was higher base damage than the CITW weapons, around the same on crits. I'm actually surprised it did as much damage as it did. So.... I would say Epic Dice is a good bet if you don't want to do TF. I didn't have the opportunity to test a ToEE weapon on the Bard, but I have tested it on my Paladin. I did get higher base numbers, but there were so many drawbacks that I decided it wasn't worth it and stayed with the TF.

[nomadicc]

Thanks! I appreciate the response!

My options above are basically what I have on hand currently. I don't have Balizarde or the shadow phlogs to make a mortal fear weapon. I do have the ToEE shrooms to make a weapon, and already have an upgraded armor from a previous life. Part of the reason I posted here was to avoid using them if it was for no or minimal gain. They were a bit of a pain to collect. I could easily make a T2 TF weapon, but I'm not sure it would come out statistically any better than Dice.

In play, I've been using Celestia mostly and also trying Dice on occasion. Anecdotally, the #s seem pretty similar... 2.5[1d10]+8 vs 5.5[1d4]+12 are pretty much the same. Both share the same crit profile due to swash. Celestia seems to benefit from a larger attack arc and a number of AoE procs. Dice has the armor piercing and vorpal proc, and I can't really say how much or little the sneak attack bonus has weighed in.

[DarkSable]

Thanks! I appreciate the response!

My options above are basically what I have on hand currently. I don't have Balizarde or the shadow phlogs to make a mortal fear weapon. I do have the ToEE shrooms to make a weapon, and already have an upgraded armor from a previous life. Part of the reason I posted here was to avoid using them if it was for no or minimal gain. They were a bit of a pain to collect. I could easily make a T2 TF weapon, but I'm not sure it would come out statistically any better than Dice.

In play, I've been using Celestia mostly and also trying Dice on occasion. Anecdotally, the #s seem pretty similar... 2.5[1d10]+8 vs 5.5[1d4]+12 are pretty much the same. Both share the same crit profile due to swash. Celestia seems to benefit from a larger attack arc and a number of AoE procs. Dice has the armor piercing and vorpal proc, and I can't really say how much or little the sneak attack bonus has weighed in.


The question comes down to your build. If you have a lot of sneak attack, Celestia is incredible. If you have perfect single weapon fighting, then improved vorpal alone adds 15 damage a hit against bosses, and helps clear trash. (Not like mortal fear does, but hey.)

[gwonbush]

Celestia does have one unlisted advantage (which can also be a disadvantage): It produces glancing blows. This means that after many attacks, you will deal an extra 20% of your base damage in a slight AOE. This can't crit, so it will trigger Sense Weakness, providing around 2.5% extra chance to crit overall. The downside of this is that if you have a guardbreaking shield, that extra hit will also break the mesmerizing effect immediately after being applied by a crit, weakening the effect overall.

[nomadicc]

That's pretty handy... I knew Celestia had the bastard sword-sized arc, but didn't really think the glancing blows would account for much. I know I keep breaking my own guardbreaking mez with that and the burst procs. Its a lot more noticeable when I use the dagger instead.

I don't have a ton of sneak attack... just the 2d6 from rogue levels, and another 2d6 from armor... plus the gear bonuses, depending on swap. Usually have at least +5, sometimes with the +3 exceptional. I have perfect swf, so vorpal procs like Reign hit pretty often.

In play, I generally prefer Celestia, and it seems to rack up better numbers. Dice is cool though, and I'll keep it as a swap option... maybe better overall vs red names and/or high fort mobs.

[kmoustakas]

I'd start off by asking "Did they fix the epic TOEE weapon bug where the procs do the heroic damage?" The toee weapons' procs would break your fascinate as well which is not a good thing.

I would think that a tf weapon with dragon's edge at tier 2 is your best choice. Personally I wouldn't go for any piercing weapon because they are at a disadvantage over both zombies and skeletons so either sickle or light mace since they will all result in 18/x3. Also, considering the minimum level you might be better off with negative instead of fire because all devils/demons etc are immune to fire. Personally I just use spellpower at tier 1 but then again I use a lot of spells with my bard.

[Irongutz2000]

Celestia does have one unlisted advantage (which can also be a disadvantage): It produces glancing blows. This means that after many attacks, you will deal an extra 20% of your base damage in a slight AOE. This can't crit, so it will trigger Sense Weakness, providing around 2.5% extra chance to crit overall. The downside of this is that if you have a guardbreaking shield, that extra hit will also break the mesmerizing effect immediately after being applied by a crit, weakening the effect overall.

Celestia is broken by swashbuckling enhancements , meaning it will no longer break dr.