Unarmed fight change proposal.

[Seljuck]

Since druid and monk/wraps pass is closer every day, I want bring up here my idea of few changes for that fight style. Right now only monk and druid in wolf & bear forms are treated like they are using unarmed fight. They have few bonus feats that enhance that style, mostly monk. For all other classes unarmed fight is a joke due to animation and lack of bonuses (enhancements, feats etc.).
Everyone knows that Two Weapon Fighting Style works with unarmed fight even though it should not for druid forms f.eg., but without that feats, unarmed fight would be weak. Since I read somewhere in dev chat that this style should not work in unarmed fight style for druid forms, I suggest here to add new fighting line. This line would affect monks, druid forms and any other class, that could be builded under unarmed fight bringing more diversity to game. Few suggestions how it could look:

“Unarmed Fighting”

You are skilled in tavern brawl, your unarmed fight evolve. You gain one additional attack when unarmed and your fighting animation changes to better match your skills.
You are skilled in tavern brawl, your unarmed fight evolve. You gain +5% doublestrike chance when fighting unarmed and your fighting animation changes to better match your skills.
You are skilled in tavern brawl, your unarmed fight evolve. You gain +5% combat style bonus to attack speed and +0.5 (W) when fighting unarmed. Your fighting animation changes to better match your skills.

“Improved Unarmed Fighting”
Your skills in brawl increased. You gain one additional attack when unarmed for total of +2.
Your skills in brawl increased. You gain additional +5% doublestrike chance when fighting unarmed for a total 10%.
Your skills in brawl increased. You gain additional +5% combat style bonus to melee attack speed and +0.5 (W) when fighting unarmed, for a total of +10% melee attack speed and +1 (W).
“Greater Unarmed Fighting”
You are tavern brawl champion. You gain one additional attack when unarmed for total of +3.
You are tavern brawl champion. You gain additional +5% doublestrike chance when fighting unarmed for a total of 15%.
Your skills in brawl increased. You gain additional +5% combat style bonus to melee attack speed and +0.5 (W) when fighting unarmed, for a total of +15% melee attack speed and +1.5 (W).
This feat lines can’t be used in synergy with Two Weapon Fighting. Two weapon Fighting should be blocked for unarmed fight, same as Single Weapon Fighting.
Feats should work for monks, druids in animal forms and all other classes if taken. (Yes you can now create half-orc barbarian that can smash Harry with his head :))
This change could bring a lot of diversity to game.

Few notes:
- While unarmed fight You can't use ANY weapons except for handwraps. Monks can use handwraps and maybe few of KI weapons (depends on DPS tests)
- While in animal forms and fight unarmed you can't use ANY weapon except for handwraps. Other weapons are still allowed but Unarmed Fight will not work with them.
- Unarmed fight animation should be changed for all classes except of monks.
- Unarmed fight should work with most of abilities and enhancements.
- This change could remove few glitches with unarmed fight and weapon styles that should not work together.

Other ideas are welcome.

[Kriogen]

No need for new feats as handwraps will be a proper weapon. If its a proper weapon (and not some weird personal buff), current combat feats will function by default.

[Seljuck]

No need for new feats as handwraps will be a proper weapon. If its a proper weapon (and not some weird personal buff), current combat feats will function by default.

I agree with that, but current system offer too much glitches and understatements. Besides, tell me handwraps are single weapon or should use two weapon fighting style feats due to two hands?

[Coyopa]

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that TWF shouldn't be usable by monks because that's not the case and I've never seen any developer ever post such a thing. It's been long-standing knowledge that TWF is important for monks to increase their off-hand attack chances. I understand that TWF shouldn't work for druids in wolf or bear forms and that should be fixed, but that doesn't have anything to do with monks.

[Daitengu]

I suggest here to add new fighting line. Few suggestions how it could lookNot signed, with TWF line at we can switch between weapons and unarmed when necessary. This really cuts down versatility.

[Ykt]

Look what I found
https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/75-Suggestions-amp-Ideas

[Seljuck]

Not signed, with TWF line at we can switch between weapons and unarmed when necessary. This really cuts down versatility.

Right now no one use unarmed fight except for monks, so switching between weapons and unarmed on anything other than monks are pointless. On the other hand, monks would still chose between unarmed fight line and TWF, just not both at same time.


Look what I found
https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/75-Suggestions-amp-Ideas

Congratulations, You're very perceptive. Maybe then you'll notice, that nobody's looking on this subforum. I do not remember well, have you ever seen a dev statement regarding post located there? Maybe a long time ago ..


I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that TWF shouldn't be usable by monks because that's not the case and I've never seen any developer ever post such a thing. It's been long-standing knowledge that TWF is important for monks to increase their off-hand attack chances. I understand that TWF shouldn't work for druids in wolf or bear forms and that should be fixed, but that doesn't have anything to do with monks.

Maybe I did not explain this clearly, I'm not saying that the TWF should be blocked for monks. I stated that it is mainly about the druids in animal form, as well as other classes that could use unarmed fight buff.
I will add that to main post if it's not clear enough. With new line monk could chose: aditional off hand attack or different buff from unarmed feat line.

[Ykt]

Congratulations, You're very perceptive. Maybe then you'll notice, that nobody's looking on this subforum. I do not remember well, have you ever seen a dev statement regarding post located there? Maybe a long time ago ..


Maybe because everyone is posting elsewhere.

[Violentbeginning]

Monks and druids have their unarmed combat attributes built into the class, so I see no need for additional feats. Besides, in order to take a new line of feats, what would you do, multiclass into fighter so you can play as a monk?

[Grailhawk]

“Unarmed Fighting”

You are skilled in tavern brawl, your unarmed fight evolve. You gain one additional attack when unarmed and your fighting animation changes to better match your skills.
You are skilled in tavern brawl, your unarmed fight evolve. You gain +5% doublestrike chance when fighting unarmed and your fighting animation changes to better match your skills.
You are skilled in tavern brawl, your unarmed fight evolve. You gain +5% combat style bonus to attack speed and +0.5 (W) when fighting unarmed. Your fighting animation changes to better match your skills.


1) Extra attacks as you list is how TWF used to work pre U5 it was nerfed. They are not going to add that back in.

2) You think a combat style feat line that gives 3 extra attacks (that's equivalent to ~75% off hand proc better really since is static and not probabilistic), 15% Double Strike, and 15% Alacrity and +1.5[w] is anywhere near balanced?

Monks are behind other DPS classes because there crit multiplier is worthless and they don't have good ways to increase there crit threat.

I'm sorry but this is garbage it doesn't try to address the real issue with monk/unarmed combat its just looking to make them OP.

The fix for unarmed monks and handwarps is to make them regular weapons so that every thing that every thing that should work with them works. You then need to look at the monk trees (Ninja Spy needs its crit threat earlier then level 20 and probably needs a crit multiplier maybe some +damage or Melee Power, Shinto needs some things to make stances besides Earth worth wild. +w for fire stance +ds for air +dc or dodge for water, Henshin needs to decide is it a caster or a staff build).

As for animal form Druids they need to be fixed so that only one combat style can work at a time with them they also need to have weapons restricted to handwraps while in animal form and then given buffs to put them at the right level of DPS for a caster class.

[Cantor]

Definitely not behind this. Your ideas should be monk enhancements, not feats. Or, as I suggested somewhere some time ago.. I'd like to see the monk stances greatly improved. The stances need a rework from the ground up. Mountain being the best offense and defense is broken, boost the defense take away the crit. Air stance should also work with ranged and maybe get RP. Fire should get some melee power and maybe the crit from mountain moved here? Maybe throw some mrr into water and more dodge with an epic master of stances.

And denying druids in animal form access to all weapons, breaks the whole idea. (I realize you are targeting the exploits with that, but it should be fixed)

Also I really hope they make TWF in animal form WAI or add offhand strike to natural fighting, if not animal form will never be competitive.