Warlock refund

[mr420247]

Want one take it back dont want it anyone else sign up petition

Bait and switch

[lronEnema]

Want one take it back dont want it anyone else sign up petition

Bait and switch

/not signed

In fact, let me see if I can vote twice.

/not signed again.

Well wadyaknow - two votes for 'No'

[bartharok]

/not signed.

Warlock is still quite good.

[Jeromio]

/not signed

Warlock will still be an easy button

[Nestroy]

Not signed, it´s the way they do business. *cough* Arty *cough* Iconics except BF *cough*

We adapt and life goes on. And rarely we get lucky and find bugs that might be used to gain greatly from p2p classes that are ment to be nerfed shortly after release *cough* druid *cough*.

[Lonnbeimnech]

The way I see it, the ones that bought it and already played warlocks got to get their past lives while the class was massively over powered.

Everyone else missed out.

[Arkai]

*cough* Arty *cough*

Ouch, that hurts, LOL

[scipiojedi]

I purposefully didn't buy Warlock yet because it was considered OP...I want to have fun with it when I do play not stomping content so maybe after the pass I'll actually buy it but most likely I'll still multiclass it since a pure warlock will still be too easy

[unbongwah]

Bah, don't mind the haters, OP, I'm totally on board with you! While we're at it, I'd like refunds on the following:

Drow: turns out they're not the uber race that R.A. Salvatore claimed. I now realize those Drizzzzzzt novels were just Underdark propaganda.
Favored Soul: paying for a splash class on a Fire Savant is silly.
Artificer: "hybrid class" is now a four-letter word in DDO. Plus the Mechanics keep laughing and stealing my lunch money. And if I see one more "I CAN HAZ DEADLY PLZ?" chat message...
Druid: wolf builds should not be this broken-complicated.
Morninglord: "Sun elves? Awesome! They make great Pale Masters! ...wait, I start out as a cleric? And I have to pay to LR out of it?! *flips table*"


Please note that I am being completely & totally serious and not at all sarcastic.

[Gljosh]

/not signed

Late adopters RULE!!!!!

[Vooduspyce]

The way I see it, the ones that bought it and already played warlocks got to get their past lives while the class was massively over powered.

Everyone else missed out.

Big time. I pressed this very point within my guild.

I'm quite confident that warlock will still be way fun, so...

/not signed

/not signed

/not signed


haha 3 votes! :p

[Uska]

I fought against them adding it but now that it's here it should stay and there was no bait and switch

[slarden]

I wouldn't recommend buying warlock to anyone that doesn't already have it, but it's not awful, but it's a "B" to "B+" build now with the changes. It still beats a palemaster by a large margin lol.

[stoerm]

Horc
Monk
FvS

Other irrelevant things I spent money on. Life goes on.

I just TR'd my main to warlock last week. :P

[axel15810]

Not bait and switch, Turbine never claims that a class as initially released will always remain that way. They've been extremely clear on that for a long time now when it comes to class balance. All classes are subject to nerfs and/or buffs.

Yeah it will be more difficult for people to get past lives of that class now that it won't be as OP. Ideally devs would have gotten the power level right at release but it's hard to do that. They aren't perfect and the handful of devs can't always predict how the thousands of players in the playerbase will utilize it. I do hope they adopt a more conservative approach in the future. I think it's far better for a new class to be underpowered then buff it than it be OP and have to be nerfed. Wouldn't upset near as many people.

But, the class will still be extremely strong and most heroic content is still extremely easy on elite. And don't you all play DDO for more than just to get through leveling as fast as possible? You know...maybe for the experience of playing it? Turbine sold you a class, not a past life.

[FifthTime]

The classic bait and switch.

Buyer beware.

Turbine is like a used car salesman, you should always expect whatever you buy to be less then what they claim.

[Deadlock]

Do I get one vote for each Warlock past life I have?

/not signed
/not signed
/not signed
/not signed
/not signed

[slarden]

Yeah it will be more difficult for people to get past lives of that class now that it won't be as OP. .

This is not even close to accurate.

At 28 it will be just below the top-tier builds, but not a top-tier build anymore. Somewhere between a "B" and "B+".

It will still be extremely OP during heroic levels for getting a past life. The difference now is you may not want to stay a warlock when you hit 28.

[Memnir]

http://i.imgur.com/uqUdEma.gif

[nokowi]

I just ran Von 1(HE) the other day on a warlock and took 0 damage the entire quest. That's right, not even a single hit. Trust me when I say my build is terrible, with no thought or effort put into it.

Warlock is still going to be the go-to for many on the TR machine. I highly recommend you buy it if/when you get to the stage where max xp per minute is important to you.

Epic Warlocks can be really good right now. We will see where they fall after changed and gear from new content.

[Augon]

Bait and switch


The classic bait and switch.

Do you folks even know what Bait and Switch means?

there was no Bait and Switch here. You agree to a terms and conditions policy when you first log on to the game that clearly states that changes will be made. the Devs clearly said on the forums that dealt with Warlocks that they would see how things go on live and make changes as necessary. Players have constantly pointed out that Warlocks need nerfing because they are over powered. When you buy anything from a MMO, you are subject to future changes to that class/race/item/whatever. Its pretty obvious. If you did not understand that, it is not Turbine's fault. It is your own.

/not signed

[dunklezhan]

I purposefully didn't buy Warlock yet because it was considered OP...I want to have fun with it when I do play not stomping content so maybe after the pass I'll actually buy it

This. It was obvious they were going to eventually nerf it because it was far too powerful in heroic. I'm still waiting for the sale though, its not that appealing a playstyle for me from what I've seen*. Seems more like the NWO control wizard, and I already have one of those I decided not to bother playing.

The pattern is indeed that Turbine tends to release too powerful, nerf back reasonably quickly, and then not revisit for years if ever. But I think that's genuinely down to game complexity. I'm reasonably sure it is not a deliberate bait and switch marketing plot to make money from a very powerful new thing. I certainly choose to believe that until proven otherwise, and I'm very aware that correlation is not causation.


*before anyone starts, no I haven't played warlock. I get my evidence from guildies who have, and from looking at Mob healthbars in PuGs when there's warlock in party compared to not.

[changelingamuck]

/not signed

This is ridiculous.

[Impaqt]

I'm vip. I've played a few warlock builds and they are so overpowered they arent even fun for me. and when I'm in a group with a couple Warlocks, I'm almost guaranteed to not have any fun.

this Minor nerf may allow me to have fun with the class. We'll see.

In the meantime. NOT SIGNED

[Chai]

This. It was obvious they were going to eventually nerf it because it was far too powerful in heroic. I'm still waiting for the sale though, its not that appealing a playstyle for me from what I've seen*. Seems more like the NWO control wizard, and I already have one of those I decided not to bother playing.

The pattern is indeed that Turbine tends to release too powerful, nerf back reasonably quickly, and then not revisit for years if ever. But I think that's genuinely down to game complexity. I'm reasonably sure it is not a deliberate bait and switch marketing plot to make money from a very powerful new thing. I certainly choose to believe that until proven otherwise, and I'm very aware that correlation is not causation.


*before anyone starts, no I haven't played warlock. I get my evidence from guildies who have, and from looking at Mob healthbars in PuGs when there's warlock in party compared to not.

That's the only issue I have with the warlock nerf. Too powerful in heroic? What class isn't overperforming in heroic?

Its still decent in epics, but not OP like it was in heroic. So nerfing abilities which need to scale into epics well, because of OP in heroic, is a terrible benchmark.

[dunklezhan]

That's the only issue I have with the warlock nerf. Too powerful in heroic? What class isn't overperforming in heroic?

Its still decent in epics, but not OP like it was in heroic. So nerfing abilities which need to scale into epics well, because of OP in heroic, is a terrible benchmark.

That's a fair point and one that the devs do need to address in general in my view. However, allow me to rephrase for warlocks specifically: it was far too powerful compared to other classes in heroic.

I didn't mention epic because that's not the reason for the nerf, heroic is. But yes, for the devs to then ignore their epic performance is not ok. But its still not worth a refund, and its still not a bait and switch, as you say.

[cdbd3rd]

...*cough* Arty *cough*....


Ouch, that hurts, LOL

Indeed. My Mechnomutt even whimpered a bit. :p


*pause* (and *paws*)


Ummm. What were we talking about again? :confused:

Ah, yes. Warlocks.

*Ahem*

I, umm....

*uncomfortable admission*

... well, I haven't played one past level 5 yet. :o


------


Refund? No.

[arkonas]

no. there isn't any bait and switch. you need to know what overpowered is and a thing called balance. let's see every mmo do this.

[Draculetta]

Drow: turns out they're not the uber race that R.A. Salvatore claimed. I now realize those Drizzzzzzt novels were just Underdark propaganda.


Please note that I am being completely & totally serious and not at all sarcastic.



This made me laugh out loud... thanks.. I needed a good laugh today...

[Qezuzu]

People actually paid money wanting an overpowered steamrolling class haha what the hell. These nerfs are great, players are way too powerful. I don't have to think at all, all I do is Mouse1 and Cocoon.

No challenge is no fun.

[AbyssalMage]

no. there isn't any bait and switch. you need to know what overpowered is and a thing called balance. let's see every mmo do this.
They sold you one thing and then gave you something else a few months later. Not sure what your definition is, but I think the OP is correct. Doesn't mean I agree with them and the refund. You can read above me who actually provided evidence why it isn't needed.

As far as thinking this is balance, we can agree to disagree. Other MMO's and balance? Hahahahahahahahaha

I've yet to play an MMO where there were not tiers to classes. Best, play and have fun, and worthless and you get the last raid spot. Sometimes you move "up or down" because of a patch but there is never balance.

DDO came the closest to balance because the first 6 to 12 people were often taken (some people still hold out for a healer, but this is a minority). That is balance. I prefer to log in a play, not sit around and send random tells to people trying to bribe them to group with me/us so we can do some content that is challenging. If there are DDO players who want that content, WoW has a very diverse group of Tank, Healer, DPS tiered system before you can start Raiding (and occasionally grouping).

[HAL]

Do you folks even know what Bait and Switch means?

No, no they don't.

And /not signed while I'm here.

[AbyssalMage]

That's the only issue I have with the warlock nerf. Too powerful in heroic? What class isn't overperforming in heroic?

Its still decent in epics, but not OP like it was in heroic. So nerfing abilities which need to scale into epics well, because of OP in heroic, is a terrible benchmark.
ToEE is Over Performing in Heroics but that wasn't on the list of balances (not sure about EE after the Ranger pass but that could have been a quite fix)...
Just saying for those who think this is a balance pass :)

[unbongwah]

I wouldn't recommend buying warlock to anyone that doesn't already have it, but it's not awful, but it's a "B" to "B+" build now with the changes. It still beats a palemaster by a large margin lol.
It's arguably still the best caster class, if only because its primary DPS source consumes no SPs thus can be spammed as fast as its cooldowns allow. This speaks more to the need for a caster overhaul than warlock's soon-to-be-less-OP-ness, though. :rolleyes:

[Enoach]

Want one take it back dont want it anyone else sign up petition

Bait and switch

So what are you losing from Warlock?

You are still going to be able to kill stuff quickly in Heroic. At epic levels it may take a few more shots of eldritch blast, or it could even make the other powers such as spell casting or the melee abilities.

I think the spell power adjustment will not be as big an issue as it appears. Even at 95% spell power Chain will still be a great ability against large groups, and this will even give different stances more use since it now becomes a situational ability.

[Lorianna]

They sold you one thing and then gave you something else a few months later. Not sure what your definition is, but I think the OP is correct. Doesn't mean I agree with them and the refund. You can read above me who actually provided evidence why it isn't needed.

The definition of a "bait and switch" (which is a term gamers LOVE throwing around, without understanding what it actually IS) is as follows:

"The action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods."

For example, luring customers in with the promise of a 32" tv for $29.95 (the bait), then when they go to buy it, giving them a 13" tv instead (the switch).

You purchased the warlock class. It was sold to you EXACTLY as they stated it was. There was no "switch" involved at all. Now, you're claiming that "months later" because they made some changes, that it suddenly BECOMES a "bait and switch?"

No.

Changes happen in MMOs. They even tell you that up front in the ToS. Anyone who's played MMOs for more than a few weeks know that changes happen. The class you're playing right this moment may not be the same in a few months. Things get nerfed, things get buffed. But the perpetual whining that some players do over the whole "bait and switch" misnomer (calling things "a slap in the face" was also incredibly popular for a long time) is tedious.

[ccd1977]

/not signed

Warlock will still be an easy button

What do you mean "Easy Button"? Never played a Warlock so not sure what this means.

[patang01]

Horc
Monk
FvS

Other irrelevant things I spent money on. Life goes on.

I just TR'd my main to warlock last week. :P

Horc is a bad example. It hasn't changed one bit.

Monk and FvS are way better than how they were at release. Bad examples.

[patang01]

The definition of a "bait and switch" (which is a term gamers LOVE throwing around, without understanding what it actually IS) is as follows:

"The action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods."

For example, luring customers in with the promise of a 32" tv for $29.95 (the bait), then when they go to buy it, giving them a 13" tv instead (the switch).

You purchased the warlock class. It was sold to you EXACTLY as they stated it was. There was no "switch" involved at all. Now, you're claiming that "months later" because they made some changes, that it suddenly BECOMES a "bait and switch?"

No.

Changes happen in MMOs. They even tell you that up front in the ToS. Anyone who's played MMOs for more than a few weeks know that changes happen. The class you're playing right this moment may not be the same in a few months. Things get nerfed, things get buffed. But the perpetual whining that some players do over the whole "bait and switch" misnomer (calling things "a slap in the face" was also incredibly popular for a long time) is tedious.

Ask yourself if there would be a consumer base enough for a third expansion today after the reception of the second. That is the effect of releasing Warlock as it was and then nerf it twice in a short time. You only give people the idea that the next product will be similarly treated and they simply don't buy it.

It's called perception more than bait and switch.

[alvarego]

Want one take it back dont want it anyone else sign up petition

Bait and switch

Following the same weird line of thought ... when warlock came I could have asked the refund for all I paid for until then?

/not feeding the troll sorry

[bartharok]

What do you mean "Easy Button"? Never played a Warlock so not sure what this means.

One attack that at the same time deals good damage and works as cc, aoe, and no cost.

plus pretty good spells and special attacks and if you want a relatively good healing ability that costs nothing to use.

[slarden]

It's arguably still the best caster class, if only because its primary DPS source consumes no SPs thus can be spammed as fast as its cooldowns allow. This speaks more to the need for a caster overhaul than warlock's soon-to-be-less-OP-ness, though. :rolleyes:

It is likely still the best class for heroics period - caster or not. That is the problem is that it's OP in heroics, but between level 20 and 28 spell points don't even double and enemy hp go up by over 4x. Warlocks suffer from the same problem all casters suffer from, but they have some 0 sp options for DPS unlike other classes.

Before all these changes my barbarian, paladin and tempest were on par with my warlock. None of those builds are taking a 15-17% dps hit from the changes to improved critical and the MRR changes are uniform across all builds. I haven't tested, but it would seem Warlock drops from a group out "A" builds to a "B" or "B+" build for end game EE quests.

As for casting classes my shiradi caster isn't too far behind my warlock before the changes so I will be curious to compare after these changes. Druid casters have better cc but worse dps. I suspect druid caster dps will still be worst after these changes, but not by much. Creeping cold and Greater Creeping cold are definitely better single target dps.

The other casting classes are definitely behind warlock, but builds benefiting from just reward, empyerean magic, scourge etc. aren't very far behind.

[ccd1977]

One attack that at the same time deals good damage and works as cc, aoe, and no cost.

plus pretty good spells and special attacks and if you want a relatively good healing ability that costs nothing to use.

Really? Do'nt you have to buy spell components from the DDO store like Wizards, Clerics, etc.??

[patang01]

It is likely still the best class for heroics period - caster or not. That is the problem is that it's OP in heroics, but between level 20 and 28 spell points don't even double and enemy hp go up by over 4x. Warlocks suffer from the same problem all casters suffer from, but they have some 0 sp options for DPS unlike other classes.

Before all these changes my barbarian, paladin and tempest were on par with my warlock. None of those builds are taking a 15-17% dps hit from the changes to improved critical and the MRR changes are uniform across all builds. I haven't tested, but it would seem Warlock drops from a group out "A" builds to a "B" or "B+" build for end game EE quests.

As for casting classes my shiradi caster isn't too far behind my warlock before the changes so I will be curious to compare after these changes. Druid casters have better cc but worse dps. I suspect druid caster dps will still be worst after these changes, but not by much. Creeping cold and Greater Creeping cold are definitely better single target dps.

The other casting classes are definitely behind warlock, but builds benefiting from just reward, empyerean magic, scourge etc. aren't very far behind.

My sorc shiradi caster is ahead of any Warlock build I've toyed with. I all categories. This will of course get better in an enhancement overpass.

[bartharok]

Really? Do'nt you have to buy spell components from the DDO store like Wizards, Clerics, etc.??

For spells, yes. But not the base attack.

[Cantor]

Warlocks are still gonna be stupid in heroics, my first one was a cone build and it was stupid op. They are still going to be much better in epics than any other caster. Don't forget they are likely to benefit from any caster pass, putting them back at Tier 1 builds, if this even drops them to a "B".

[Kompera_Oberon]

Ideally devs would have gotten the power level right at release but it's hard to do that. They aren't perfect and the handful of devs can't always predict how the thousands of players in the playerbase will utilize it. I do hope they adopt a more conservative approach in the future. I think it's far better for a new class to be underpowered then buff it than it be OP and have to be nerfed. Wouldn't upset near as many people.

It would upset the revenue stream, so don't expect them to err on the side of caution in the future. Making the class OP at first and then dialing it back gets more people to buy it on release or shortly after once the power level is known.

[redoubt]

It would upset the revenue stream, so don't expect them to err on the side of caution in the futire. Making the class OP at first and then dialing it back gets more people to buy it on release or shortly after once the power level is known.

Loot Early, Loot Often!!!!

[Kompera_Oberon]

Really? Do'nt you have to buy spell components from the DDO store like Wizards, Clerics, etc.??You buy your spell components from the DDO store?

[bartharok]

You buy your spell components from the DDO store?

By the gods! I missed that part. I sincerely hope he doesnt.

[Gremmlynn]

The definition of a "bait and switch" (which is a term gamers LOVE throwing around, without understanding what it actually IS) is as follows:

"The action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods."

For example, luring customers in with the promise of a 32" tv for $29.95 (the bait), then when they go to buy it, giving them a 13" tv instead (the switch).Actually it would be to advertise a 32" TV for 29.95 but only having a few in stock to get TV buyers in the store to sell them another model at full price once the sale model has sold out.

[axel15810]

It would upset the revenue stream, so don't expect them to err on the side of caution in the future. Making the class OP at first and then dialing it back gets more people to buy it on release or shortly after once the power level is known.

I disagree. I don't think the power level in comparison to other classes is the biggest factor in whether or not most players purchase a class. Also, the devs hate nerfing because they know it upsets players. They definitely aren't looking to add to the list of needed future nerfs.

[FestusHood]

It would upset the revenue stream, so don't expect them to err on the side of caution in the future. Making the class OP at first and then dialing it back gets more people to buy it on release or shortly after once the power level is known.

I wonder how many people that bought warlock on release really had any idea what their relative power levels were.

[bartharok]

I wonder how many people that bought warlock on release really had any idea what their relative power levels were.

The ones that played it o lam, and those they told, most like.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

id like a refund of all the time and money i spent on this game.

your warlock refundz can wait.

[bartharok]

id like a refund of all the time and money i spent on this game.

your warlock refundz can wait.

What do you charge per hour.

[Kompera_Oberon]

Also, the devs hate nerfing because they know it upsets players. They definitely aren't looking to add to the list of needed future nerfs.

Their track record suggests otherwise. And that's the best indication of intent, is it not? Actions speak louder than words and all that. Otherwise you're just playing a mind reading game, and good luck with that.

[Chaoscheerio]

As someone who has not done a warlock life where I've rolled into epics, I'm not sure how I feel about the changes.
But seriously.

/notsigned

This is what turbine does, get used to it.

[knightgf]

If they could give you a refund for Warlock then they should give ME a refund for whatever adventure packs I don't like.

Though I gotta admit, im not too impressed with Warlock, it looks like a cut + paste job of the wizard class. I feel like it should be more of a prestige enhancement or even a iconic hero than a class in itself.

[jalont]

If they could give you a refund for Warlock then they should give ME a refund for whatever adventure packs I don't like.

Though I gotta admit, im not too impressed with Warlock, it looks like a cut + paste job of the wizard class. I feel like it should be more of a prestige enhancement or even a iconic hero than a class in itself.

LOL it's nothing like a wizard.

Anyway, no to the refund, but I'll just say I'm a bit surprised about the nerf. I mean, everything should be nerfed a lot because we're out of balance compared to content, but Warlock wasn't out of balance, DPS wise, compared to other classes. Sure, people seem to notice them out of balance in heroics, but that's just because people aren't used to playing with a good Sorc in heroics anymore. In EE, Warlock DPS wasn't out of balance compared to other classes. Maybe the crit nerf will help a bit to bring other classes back in line as well, but I don't know.

[moomooprincess]

The one thing I know, when something new comes out and you want the shineys from it, play the heck out of it before it is taken away. It has ALWAYS been this way in my eight years of playing.

What I like...

The OP has a red dot on his forum name, which means neg rep. I don't remember when the High School Popularity Contest ended, but it has been awhile.

The OP obviously doesn't like a lot of things about DDO(hence the neg rep), but the account has been active at least six years.

In six years it is easy to learn that when Turbine releases ANYTHING new, it is always overpowered, or the loot tables are skewed, and almost 100% of the time in the players favor.

[Uska]

The one thing I know, when something new comes out and you want the shineys from it, play the heck out of it before it is taken away. It has ALWAYS been this way in my eight years of playing.

What I like...

The OP has a red dot on his forum name, which means neg rep. I don't remember when the High School Popularity Contest ended, but it has been awhile.

The OP obviously doesn't like a lot of things about DDO(hence the neg rep), but the account has been active at least six years.

In six years it is easy to learn that when Turbine releases ANYTHING new, it is always overpowered, or the loot tables are skewed, and almost 100% of the time in the players favor.

the red dot and not liking things means nothing I was very vocal about what I did and didn't like when you could get the red dots and look at mine.

[Uska]

My sorc shiradi caster is ahead of any Warlock build I've toyed with. I all categories. This will of course get better in an enhancement overpass.

Not in heroic where warlocks rule

[moomooprincess]

the red dot and not liking things means nothing I was very vocal about what I did and didn't like when you could get the red dots and look at mine.

You have 23,000 posts, the OP has 100 posts. I am sure your positive posts far outweighed your negative posts.

All you had to do to get green dots was post a funny picture and it did not have to be about DDO(see Memnir).

I received more positive rep from silly stuff than I did for any of my statistics posts.

In order to get red dots, you had to anger the masses or just a small clique of them and they would gang up on you. To be red in less than 100 posts took some effort, and you were also placed on moderated status.

I won't discuss any further, I am just pointing out that for six years the OP has been angry, yet is still playing.

[Chai]

I won't discuss any further, I am just pointing out that for six years the OP has been angry, yet is still playing.

Either that or they disagreed with the vocal minority who then ganged up and neg repped unrelated posts until the cows came home (until neg rep got some flood control where you had to spread more rep around before repping the same person again)

That's why the system was done away with. The community couldn't even police itself well enough so why allow it to police others.

[Uska]

You have 23,000 posts, the OP has 100 posts. I am sure your positive posts far outweighed your negative posts.

All you had to do to get green dots was post a funny picture and it did not have to be about DDO(see Memnir).

I received more positive rep from silly stuff than I did for any of my statistics posts.

In order to get red dots, you had to anger the masses or just a small clique of them and they would gang up on you. To be red in less than 100 posts took some effort, and you were also placed on moderated status.

I won't discuss any further, I am just pointing out that for six years the OP has been angry, yet is still playing.

Yeah I have been angry but what I do like outweighs what I don't although the balance is changing and it could take less the bigger your green was the more your rep weighed in either direction but you point is right he is still playing

[jalont]

Not in heroic where warlocks rule

I can outkill a warlock in heroics on a sorc. The mechanics are exactly the same. The warlock bunches up mobs and uses that cleave thing, I bunch up mobs and oneshot them with a fireball. The difference seems to be that fireball attack animation is faster. If a warlock uses the cleave thing at the same time I shoot a fireball, I get more kills.

[unbongwah]

I thought the "real" warlocks were using Chain or Cone + Wave vs mobs, Consume + Stricken vs bosses; and ES was a crutch? :confused: So hard to keep track of which is the "real" OP warlock build... :p

[xberto]

Warlock still gonna be a blast to play. Its still the closest thing to old school Diablo LOD, hold down the attack button, brain dead, kill stuff character in DDO, IMO

[patang01]

Not in heroic where warlocks rule

Heroic is such a bad metric. Most quests in heroic was done way before the new classes and enhancement overpass. They reflect very poorly on new changes. That's why ANY class can beat almost all heroic on Elite - Warlocks just happen to do it better, which is like saying everyone can do it but Warlock does it best.

Personally I think Turbine makes a massive mistake by adjusting anything based on Heroic since it really shows in Epic where this really only is relevant.

[patang01]

I thought the "real" warlocks were using Chain or Cone + Wave vs mobs, Consume + Stricken vs bosses; and ES was a crutch? :confused: So hard to keep track of which is the "real" OP warlock build... :p

I think most of these changes came as a result of just how many bust SE Warlocks shows up in upper end content. Very prolific. As far as better? There are a few combos such as bard/warlock SE/Swashbucklers that wrack up super impressive stuff, but those are not as many as your run of the mill pew pew bursters.

[bartharok]

Either that or they disagreed with the vocal minority who then ganged up and neg repped unrelated posts until the cows came home (until neg rep got some flood control where you had to spread more rep around before repping the same person again)

That's why the system was done away with. The community couldn't even police itself well enough so why allow it to police others.

Since neg rep could be disputed, he must either have actually deserved to get some of it, or not care much about it.

Another part of the reason they got rid of it was that they got tired of people disputing it and them having to check if it was deserved, i suppose.

[Strider1963]

Want one take it back dont want it anyone else sign up petition

Bait and switch

Can you spell Monk?? Rule of order: Make new class op as possible so everyone wants it, then after all is bought, nerf, nerf, nerf...

[Uska]

I can outkill a warlock in heroics on a sorc. The mechanics are exactly the same. The warlock bunches up mobs and uses that cleave thing, I bunch up mobs and oneshot them with a fireball. The difference seems to be that fireball attack animation is faster. If a warlock uses the cleave thing at the same time I shoot a fireball, I get more kills.

Baloney

[slarden]

Warlock still gonna be a blast to play. Its still the closest thing to old school Diablo LOD, hold down the attack button, brain dead, kill stuff character in DDO, IMO

Well that wasn't the style for the top warlock builds prior to this patch, but it will be now since cone and wave is all that is left with reasonable dps.

It will either be pew pew for warlocks or switch builds. The warlock playstyle was more interesting before the patch when there was more build diversity. I think the real reason they are killing enlightened spirit is lag. I had to restart my client every 4-5 quests when the aura was active or deal with lag.