The Balance Change post

[Krelar]

What was the cooldown before the fix? Was it 30 seconds? This means that as long as you are being hit more than 50 times every 30 seconds they should be improved. Course you could always slot 12 of them to increase your chances.

Read the thread again. If it was changed as Steelstar indicated (have not logged in to check) then it has a 2% chance to proc and a 30 second cooldown now. One or the other seems fine to me, both seems a bit extreme.

[CThruTheEgo]

What was the cooldown before the fix? Was it 30 seconds? This means that as long as you are being hit more than 50 times every 30 seconds they should be improved. Course you could always slot 12 of them to increase your chances.

The 30 second cooldown has always been there, though never stated anywhere, hehe. And it was only recently stated by a dev (in the thread I linked) to be WAI. What was broken about them was the fact that they always triggered after 30 seconds. Now they only have a 2% chance to trigger once the 30 second cooldown is over. A 2% chance every 30 seconds is pretty weak imo, and not worth the jeweler's kit it will cost to unslot it when a later update inevitably invalidates one's current gear set. Sure, you could slot 12 of them and then have a 24% chance to proc a weak healing and AoE damage effect every 30 seconds, but that seems like an awfully big waste of slots imo.

[CThruTheEgo]

One or the other seems fine to me, both seems a bit extreme.

Agreed. They've been putting long cooldowns on gear effects lately and I don't understand why. It makes the effects practically useless.

[alancarp]

From today's release notes:

"Holy Sword's effect has been changed to: "While you are enchanted with Holy Sword, any weapons in your hands gain +1 to their Enhancement bonus and +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. This does not apply to shields, orbs, or Rune Arms." "

*Raises Hand*

I thought the point of changing Holy Sword was to reduce the power of Two-weapon fighters? So now sword-n-board DPS is reduced and the TWF's are the same as before.

What happened here?

[-D_Rock-]

So after testing manyshot at lvl 15 in Gianthold I have come to a conclusion that it is:

1. NOT manyshot anymore. cant even call it manyshot anymore like its predecessor in pnp *as the devs always try to stay true to pnp, or so they always claim* since you dont even shoot more arrows. ummmm..... wha??????

2. COMPLETELY useless in heroics now. my build is a split this current life and im feeling a double whammy. He is a two weapon fighting toon with manyshot as well for back up. twf was nerfed with this too, which in all honesty wasnt that bad while testing but am double nerfed regardless. I then decided to go ahead and use 'strongershot'. I will be calling it this now as i AM faithful to pnp and refuse to dishonor 3.5 by calling it manyshot anymore, since it is NOT manyshot by any means what so ever, unless your counting the doubleshot you get when you gear your brains out just for that. When i used 'stongershot' it literally did about 5-10 more points of damage per arrow. Now mind you, I know what you are 'trying' and failing to do and that is nerf it to where manyadrenaslayershot is not so ridiculous in epics. What you have 'done' though, is nerf it so hard that its no longer an ability that can even hold true to its name nor be even semi useful in heroic. by the time i swap to my bow and hit my strongershot and boosts etc, i could have just killed them with my blades. so why use strongershot????

3. Only ever use it in epic when i CAN adrenaline/slayer/strongershot. In nerfing it for the reason of this, you only made it useful for JUST that.

4. I will most likey never take this feat ever again with it being so useless, unless its on a pure ranger build that i will never play as i have been there done that, sort of thing. After playing for over 5 years, this is one thing that disturbs me most about all the changes that have ever happened. there has never, until this day, been a change that has ever made me want to 'not' use what should be 'a helpful feat'. Its bad enough that it has such high requirements. your going to need to account for dexterity and multiple feat requirements before you can even take the feat that gives you about 5 more points of dmg per shot. The most disturbing part is that it is assumed to be balanced now.

All of this boils down to 1 thing. Your trying to 'balance' a system that cannot be balanced. This has been an issue with 3.5 since it was started. I know all too well as i have been playing dnd for 20+ years now. Its not about total balance with 3.5, its about class roles and versatility. At this rate I can see this game steering towards all those joke dnd games where u get a pre built toon *you can be a female horc rogue, or a male dwarf sorcerer etc*. The one thing that makes dnd a shining contender in games is one simple thing, versatility and customization. By trying to balance things, you are only making it something it is not, 3.5 dnd. Manyshot is no longer manyshot, and im wondering what else is going to 'not' be what it is supposed to be.

A tip of advice, if you want to add more challenge then be a Dungeon Master. I used to dm 3.5 and it drove me insane how easy it was to make god toons for my players. And then the day came when I came to the realization; anything the players can do, the monsters can do too. You want to add challenge? Add some class levels to that simple kobold sittin in the corner. Little did the players know that the kobold over there is also a lvl 20 ranger who too, can manyshot. The players managed to kill him eventually, but were killed by his lvl 20 rogue friend sneaking around backstabbing them that they never seemed to notice. Must have had a REALLY good sneak skill. Or if you think that you cannot balance 3.5 like so many before you have tried then the balance is called something else in some languages: A new game. But leave 3.5 just that, 3.5.

This is my opinion. Many can feel free to disagree or agree with it but it will still be mine all the same and i will not waver from it. Thank you for reading :)

[unbongwah]

I thought the point of changing Holy Sword was to reduce the power of Two-weapon fighters? So now sword-n-board DPS is reduced and the TWF's are the same as before.
Bear in mind Holy Sword's +1 crit range bonus is no longer doubled by Improved Crit; so all TWF/SWF/THF pallies lost 5% crit chance. So if you're a TWF pally w/khopeshes, you went from 15-20/x4 to 16-20/x4. Somewhere in this thread, Sev said after testing they felt this was enough of a nerf to TWF pallies, so they re-enabled HS to offhand weapons (yay!).

[lyrecono]

Thanks for the insightful comments. I could quibble – that was my first ever post, so hardly “vocal” – but on the whole I recognise your points; there are divergent views on many of their issues which often come down to how one weighs one factor against another. I’ll just pick up on one point, which is regarding “party tactics”.

For me a tank is a party function, taking aggro. Classically, they need others to kill the monsters in timely fashion, presumably high-dps types. This is a symbiotic relationship. If the high-dps types can handle the aggro themselves (strong defences, good self-healing, whatever) they are self-sufficient and don’t need a tank, the symbiosis then breaks down and the tank feels useless. Conversely if the tank has good dps he/she doesn’t really need the high-dps help (maybe luxury rather than necessity). Recognising the two-way relationship, the high-dps type could (should?) help by, for example, letting the tank grab aggro before wading in and/or spreading their dps out or getting some threat reduction. From a personal perspective – and YMMV – my high-situational-dps-but-squishy assassin tries to do all of these as he really, really doesn’t want aggro so he does everything I can think of to help the tank keep it. Obviously his raw dps suffers a bit – but that’s the point.

Your comments focused on clerics - there are doubtless things that clerics and other casters can do to help – group tactics has many dimensions – but I did not have healbots in mind when I mentioned tactics. On the other hand, I do think that inter-dependency is key to group play and a distinctive feature of D&D. The alternative is to have a mob of self-sufficient individuals running around each doing their own thing, albeit perhaps in the same general vicinity. That’s OK too, and I recognise that some prefer to play that way, however I’d prefer that the extra effort required for coordination provided a return in superior overall performance (though not so much that you HAD to do it - I certainly don't want to force anyone down one particular path, but I do think you need some such benefit in order to provide a situation where more party-oriented and synergistic (vs solo) roles can thrive, or at least survive). That’s not quite harking back to the classical PnP party, though I can see it could look like that. Incidentally, another distinctive role feature in ancient PnP (I only played up to 2nd edition) was that aoe attacks were the exclusive province of caster – all weapons were exclusively single-target. The proliferation of aoe or multi-target weapon effects is one of many aspects that has diminished the role of offensive casters (plenty more to say on that but probably off-topic here).

well, my appologees for jumping you like that, welcome to the forum.
If the high-dps types can handle the aggro themselves (strong defences, good self-healing, whatever)
My pure barb worked hard for his gear, he took 2 twists for self healing (where anyone else needed 1 twist to gain healing) and a feat for platemail prof, those 2 twists could have been used for dps as could the feat (barbs don't get that many), it's a trade off
A melee paladin could be in those 2 destinies and have dps/tank stuff/more healing they already had without loosing twists, but they had less dpps then the barb (until they got boosted and then nerfed)
again, a trade off.

I shouldn't feel bad for the rogue because the wizard or bard took 2 levels of rogue and have all the twink gear and can do all the traps,
I won't feel guilty because my twinked (gear/build/playstyle) barb is better at tanking then a "tank"
I won't hold back because someone rolled up a "tank"

In my humble opinion, it's the mrr/prr curve that hurts the tank the most, the difference between a 240 and 220 prr is pathetic to begin with, wich took him feats and enh to get there,
if he builds for tanking he gains diminishing returns and might waste a party spot for someone who can actually take down a mob in a reasonable time.
DDo players aren't always pnp players, when the devs made the mobs have more hp and damage output, they switched to mostly ranged builds (yes the top notch cetus fighter build had manyshot etc build in to mitigate the but hurt), it was a black page in ddo history.
If they want people to "team up, they should hand craft better groups of mobs, they don't work well together, no shield wall with casters and ranged attacks behind them (and a surprise barb to kill the first one to jump over the shield wall), no counter spelling???, etc, mobs could make our lives so much harder by working together and yes, i agree, animals or plants don't always do that (though the druid behind the could, i advise you to read the "start of darkness" comic, it has an awesome example of that), butt a devil legion (witch implies an lawful army unit) should use tactics, they have the discipline, hierarchy and mental stats to pull it of.

DDo is build on 3,5 rules, adapted for video games mechanics and then adapted for 4th edition.
Cleave could already hit multiple targets, 2handers already could, having only a caster being able to do that wouldn't work in this game, we fight way more mobs then pnp.
When the game started people just played sorc and sleepwalked (or sleep-ran) all over the lower heroic quests spamming fireballs and drinking pots, tanks were obsolete even then.

[LordTigerDawn]

Manyshot
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 20 seconds you add your (base attack bonus * 4) to your Doubleshot and Ranged Power. This ability puts Ten Thousand Stars on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 2 minutes.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

********************************

Very disappointed in this change. This redesigned ability states that it no longer requires a bow, but in game, it still does.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

The feat is WAI, giving an extra 3 to crit range, but the description is listing it with the +2 weapons. I'm just worried that if someone "fixes" this, they'll do it the wrong way and reduce the threat range bonus to 2. Gxb's are of course 3 crit-range weapons like the rapier and kukri.

[CThruTheEgo]

From today's release notes:

"Holy Sword's effect has been changed to: "While you are enchanted with Holy Sword, any weapons in your hands gain +1 to their Enhancement bonus and +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. This does not apply to shields, orbs, or Rune Arms." "

*Raises Hand*

I thought the point of changing Holy Sword was to reduce the power of Two-weapon fighters? So now sword-n-board DPS is reduced and the TWF's are the same as before.

What happened here?

Turbine Turbined its own Turbining of holy sword. I can't really say it any more clearly than that.

[Son_of_the_South]

Did they just change paralyzing arrows so they don't paralyze anymore??

"Paralyzing Arrows give 3 seconds of -10% Movement and Attack Speed on a failed Saving Throw."

Now they're just 'make you move kinda slower' arrows?

[gwonbush]

Did they just change paralyzing arrows so they don't paralyze anymore??

"Paralyzing Arrows give 3 seconds of -10% Movement and Attack Speed on a failed Saving Throw."

Now they're just 'make you move kinda slower' arrows?

Varg messed up when he sent the description to Cordovan. That's what happens on a successful save, they are still paralyzed on a failed save.

[standard_deviation]

I can't believe this patch went live already, you guys seriously didn't spend enough considering MRR impact interacted with Champion Wizards among low and medium durability characters. Enemies one-shotting the player isn't difficulty, it's just frustration. For something to be difficult there has to be a chance of winning :P


But that's not even my main complain at the moment. In the Improved Critical revision, you treated the following three combat types the same:
Unarmed -- default 20 x2, Improved Crit: +1 threat range
Wild Shape (Dire Bear) -- default 20 x3, Improved Crit: +1 threat range
Wild Shape (Winter Wolf) -- default 19-20 x3, Improved Crit: +1 threat range

Winter Wolf is getting 18-20 x3 with Improved Crit, but this should be 17-20 x3. Please consider revising this like you did with the Swashbuckler crit-leveling.

[Son_of_the_South]

Varg messed up when he sent the description to Cordovan. That's what happens on a successful save, they are still paralyzed on a failed save.

Thanks for the update. Figured it must have been a successful save or we would have heard more about it.

[Grailhawk]

Unarmed -- default 20 x2, Improved Crit: +1 threat range
Wild Shape (Dire Bear) -- default 20 x3, Improved Crit: +1 threat range
Wild Shape (Winter Wolf) -- default 19-20 x3, Improved Crit: +1 threat range

Honestly they need to rework unarmed from scratch and they need to do it soon. The Improved Critical changes have really made this a much more important issue then it was in the past.

Unarmed is broken it needs fixing ASAP.

[alancarp]

I can't believe this patch went live already, you guys seriously didn't spend enough considering MRR impact interacted with Champion Wizards among low and medium durability characters. Enemies one-shotting the player isn't difficulty, it's just frustration. For something to be difficult there has to be a chance of winning :P ...

As I'm running through things tonight, I'm noticing the reduction in melee power, and that's requiring a bit longer to kill red names, but the big deal is the MRR reduction. I didn't realize that it would be so noticeable on my lvl 28 S&B Pally (I think it's about a 25% reduction). Kinda feels like I'm using armor that's 4-6 levels lower in quality now, which is certainly making me use up Lay on Hands at a much faster rate (and that's on Epic Norm quests). Not going to be volunteering to tank any raid dragons any time soon, that's for sure.

[Arkai]

Great Crossbow is indeed 18-20 and should have been included in the +3 group for Improved Critical. That's a bug that we will correct, though you might not see the fix in the first Lamannia.

Sev~

I noticed this on the live server tonight, although it isn't listed on the official known issues. I guess It will be catched in the next update.

[Holleyz]

Can I please have the developer/ game designers name that screwed up my aa ranger? To you man: Eat my arrows and a HUGE middle finger to you for screwing up manyshots.

[donblas]

I can't believe this patch went live already, you guys seriously didn't spend enough considering MRR impact interacted with Champion Wizards among low and medium durability characters. Enemies one-shotting the player isn't difficulty, it's just frustration. For something to be difficult there has to be a chance of winning :P


.

I remember when MotU came out with its Ac changes and introducing PRR etc to "reduce granularity", ie have smoother damage incoming from enemy rather than sudden bursts of huge damage.

Obviously the current devs threw that concept out of the window,.

Can we just get some consistency please? Can each new crew of devs stop throwing out the old stuff? Make up your mind - smooth inputs of damage or granular ones, stop abandoning crafting systems and bringing in new ones, etc, etc, etc.

[Kompera_Oberon]

From today's release notes:

"Holy Sword's effect has been changed to: "While you are enchanted with Holy Sword, any weapons in your hands gain +1 to their Enhancement bonus and +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range and Critical Damage Multiplier. This does not apply to shields, orbs, or Rune Arms." "

*Raises Hand*

I thought the point of changing Holy Sword was to reduce the power of Two-weapon fighters? So now sword-n-board DPS is reduced and the TWF's are the same as before.

What happened here?

Shields were "overperforming" and required a much needed nerf in order to keep the player base from running only S&B builds. Obviously no one in their right mind runs as THF or TWF, so something needed to be done!

</sarcasm>


Bear in mind Holy Sword's +1 crit range bonus is no longer doubled by Improved Crit; so all TWF/SWF/THF pallies lost 5% crit chance. So if you're a TWF pally w/khopeshes, you went from 15-20/x4 to 16-20/x4. Somewhere in this thread, Sev said after testing they felt this was enough of a nerf to TWF pallies, so they re-enabled HS to offhand weapons (yay!).
And if you were running S&B with a Kopesh you also went from 15-20/x4 to 16-20/x4. So why not allow Holy Sword to work with shields?

[alancarp]

comment removed - still checking data.

[hunzi2010]

So I am still at work for another 7 hours, and haven't uploaded the patch.

Any feedback on how my puer human lvl 28 hand wrap monk is going to play? and my bladeforge pure pally lvl 28 s&b is going to play? and my drow wiz lvl 28 is going to play?
any info would be good.
thanks guys

[EllisDee37]

It's actually worse than that, now that I looked a little harder: I have both the Improved Crit AND the Overwhelming Crit feats, and it seems that NEITHER is stacking with Holy Sword... so I literally have 2 useless feats.Improved Crit still stacks with Holy Sword. It just no longer doubles Holy Sword.



Any feedback on how my puer human lvl 28 hand wrap monk is going to play?Worse. You will lose the melee power from the TWF feats, and Improved Crit: Bludgeon no longer gives you a 19-20x2 profile with unarmed. Neither do wraps with Impact. ALL unarmed monks are currently stuck with 20x2.


and my bladeforge pure pally lvl 28 s&b is going to play?Worse. You lose a noticeable amount of MRR such that spells and energy traps will hurt more. Your shield bashes will do less dps because holy sword no longer applies to shields. On the plus side, a nice quality of life improvement is that you only need to cast Holy Sword once. It persists even if you switch weapons, automatically applying to whatever is equipped in your main hand. (No more multiple castings if you use more than one weapon.)


and my drow wiz lvl 28 is going to play?Same as it ever was.

[alancarp]

Improved Crit still stacks with Holy Sword. It just no longer doubles Holy Sword....

I have removed my comment - still checking the data... and it's now the overwhelming crit I'm concerned with. I'm aware of the IC effect (or lack thereof).

> Appears that OC is working as before.

[hunzi2010]

Thanks Man for your help.
So my monk is dust. I take it if IC doesn't work with my wraps, then overwhelming crit is also not going to work.
I now can only crit on a 20. Well that totally sucks balls. and no melee power.....
12, 15, 8, 13, 11, 9, 136. wow im definitely going to get smashed by mobs in the face now.

[Kompera_Oberon]

and my drow wiz lvl 28 is going to play?

EllisDee covered the other two and gets a partial for the third. Here's the other part: If your Wizard spent Enhancements and augment slots on negating ASF for heavy (or heavier than robes really) armor you're going to lose a whole lot of PRR since the PRR contribution from armor is now based on your BAB*. (I wonder if Tenser's will boost the armor PRR while it is active?) And you'll lose all of the MRR from the armor, since it went away altogether.


* Although I know that logic isn't a necessary part of game design a friend pointed out to me today how silly it is to base the protective quality of armor on how well you can swing a sword. :p

[Geekhann]

I have an archer build that just hit 20. He is 9 ranger/6 monk/5 rogue. Wisdom high for 10k. 9 ranger for past life and empower healing. 6 monk for 10k. Tier 5's are in mechanic. Uses int for damage from harper. 2% standing doubleshot (from ship buff).

I challenge anyone to describe an actual character that was made more dysfunctional by this patch than mine.

Mind you, i'm not complaining, or demanding a heart or anything.

LMFAO

I have a 8 ranger/6 monk/6 rogue....

They wanted to ecourage ppl to go pure ranger, they didnt want 6 monk lvls to be a must for monkchers I guess. They could have just removed the dobleshot penalty after manyshot and leave it after 10k stars. Instead they have gimped what was already the gimpiest playstyle in ddo. I m sure that a lvl 6 xbow user w/o rapid reload outpreforms our archers lol. And i did several straight monkcher lives, was happy with new stalker stuff and was really having fun with my archer, had a lot of thinkgs to click, lots of cooldowns to monitor.... It was fun, but now its simply unplayable. I have other legend builds like a Pally, twf assassin, Barbarian, I dont mind the nerfs there, I understand some of it. But to gimp archers like this is insane.

[elvesunited]

Heavy armor / Tower Shield Warlock Tank: BUILD CONCEPT DESTRUCTION. My heavy armor and almost all tower shields are now useless to this guy. The fighter splash is a waste as 90% of the reason for taking it just went away. It will be expensive to make this toon viable again with medium armor and a low ASF shield. Anyone of a spare lesser heart of wood +2?

Winter Wolf Druid: BROKEN. I've got a winter wolf druid with improved critical and testing on the training dummy was only getting critical hits on 19 or 20. As if he didn't have the improved critical feat at all.

Armored non-undead archmage Wizard: MUCH SQUISHIER. Granted 9 base attack bonus has something to do with it. But ouch. He lost over half his damage mitigation.

Pure Swashbuckler Throwing Bard: CONFUSING. In testing with throwing axe confirmed that critical on 15-20 even though description says 16-20. Blow by Blow sonic damage still doesn't work with throwing weapons.

ranger 11 / monk 6 / favored 3 Monkcher: JURY OUT. So many changes. The elemental/force damage may offset the loss of damage through manyshot and thousand stars. The DC arrows are better DC but still far short of useful in Epic Elite. ( Maybe if someone dedicated a AA build to DC maxing but that someone isn't me )

[unbongwah]

Winter Wolf Druid: BROKEN. I've got a winter wolf druid with improved critical and testing on the training dummy was only getting critical hits on 19 or 20. As if he didn't have the improved critical feat at all.
Disappointing, but considering handwraps are bugged, not too surprised animal forms are too. :( Not looking forward to getting my wolf druid to cap so I can ER->HTR again...

Armored non-undead archmage Wizard: MUCH SQUISHIER. Granted 9 base attack bonus has something to do with it. But ouch. He lost over half his damage mitigation.
Pretty much anybody looking to max their PRR (esp. arcane casters) will need to keep a stack of Div Power clickies handy (or cast Tensers).

Pure Swashbuckler Throwing Bard: CONFUSING. In testing with throwing axe confirmed that critical on 15-20 even though description says 16-20. Blow by Blow sonic damage still doesn't work with throwing weapons.
Sounds like display is bugged and Swashbuckler bugs with throwing weapons (like not getting +1 crit multiplier) still haven't been fixed. :(

ranger 11 / monk 6 / favored 3 Monkcher: JURY OUT. So many changes. The elemental/force damage may offset the loss of damage through manyshot and thousand stars. The DC arrows are better DC but still far short of useful in Epic Elite. ( Maybe if someone dedicated a AA build to DC maxing but that someone isn't me )
It's too bad there's no bow with Bewildering on it; would be a great way of making Paralyzing more useful.

[KoobTheProud]

It seems like the balance pass basically just involved beginning to bring critical effects more into balance. This is not a bad thing, however we would probably profit as a community if we could begin to agree on what we want out of the game systems in terms of balance and playability.

My primary issue at this point is that min/max builds are always going to be a governing influence on the content that is produced and then balanced over time. It's too easy to design something that exploits the strengths of 2 or more classes and that winds up broken in all but the highest difficulty content as a result. What concerns me is that these builds then become a target for content development since the devs don't want them just flying through content without difficulty. That makes normal builds very tough to manage in high difficulty content. An example of this is the ongoing balancing between evasion and heavy armor builds, with content that would challenge either strategy effectively snuffing the other one.

I'm kind of at the point where I'd be happy if the devs balanced content around pure classes with difficulties aimed at what the pure classes were intended to see as easy, moderate and hard difficulty. I'd be ok if exploiter builds were able to fly though that content, with the price of playing an exploiter build being loss of enjoyment in the overall play experience. The alternative seems to be for content to continuously get harder and harder for basic builds with the power gamers then asking for even higher difficulty levels, with a concurrent drain on dev resources to accommodate those demands.

We've got power creep all over the place and the game is very unforgiving for new players coming in as it is. Wouldn't it make sense to cap the difficulties on what the pure classes can accomplish, with appropriate grouping required for some non-elite content, as opposed to watching the power creep get to the point that nobody but the completionists can really play the game at the top end?

[RobbinB]

Uhmm, I think that is not a good idea for balancing the game, it's hard to survive in EE in some quest, some mob have a heavy damage in aoe spells, if mrr you have to look for boulds with evation and high reflex, this chage do it that the game lose variety of choice (IMOO), any want do it a melle dps to just get beaten.

And the feat...This is a garbage, you hava spend 4 feats for get 30 prr/mrr, may with 2 feat of 15 prr/merr each can be best option and universal, not only for fighters, you forget paladin tanks (same for tactical feat, a good idea but too many feats).

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the armor/tactics feats, but given that the lower feats are not prereqs for the higher I would think the more valid question is whether 2 feats are worth 21 prr, or 3 feats are worth 27 prr/mrr. There's a logical inconsistency in saying fighters don't have enough feats to get everything they need and then be willing to spend a feat to get 3 prr/mrr when you likely already have reasonable amounts of prr/mrr through feats/enhances/equipment.

[Souless]

Greetings.

We've seen a lot of community feedback, both public and private, about our ongoing plans for balance. These are some changes we are considering to increase game balance.

As with any post that outlines power reductions (aka nerfs) I am sure there will be a lot of players looking for explanations and our thoughts and results on balance that led to these changes. I will be following up this post with more details that talk about why some of these changes are being implemented.

***

Holy Sword (Paladin)
This is now a spell that affects the paladin and buffs whatever melee weapon is being wielded in the main hand.
It no longer persists on your weapon but instead buffs the melee weapon you are holding in your main hand. (Yes, this buffs your two handed weapons.)
It no longer affects missile weapons.
It no longer can be used to buff off hand weapons or shields.
If you change weapons the spell will drop off the unequipped weapon and instead be applied to the newly equipped weapon.

Blood Strength (Barbarian Ravager)
The portion of this enhancement that heals the user when they kill an opponent now has a 1 second internal cooldown.

Critical Rage (Barbarian Ravager)
The bonus to critical threat range is now a competence bonus.

Two weapon fighting animations have been fixed so there is no longer a weird jump on the fourth animation. This has made the fourth attack slightly quicker.

Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.
Improved Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.
Greater Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.

Doubleshot values over 100% now have a chance of producing a third attack. The chance is equal to the amount the value exceeds 100. A doubleshot value of 130, for example, would always produce one extra shot and have a 30% chance to produce a third shot.

(Doublestrike will still cap at 100 for technical reasons.)

Repeating Crossbows and Doubleshot
Fixed a bug where Doubleshot was not being reduced for repeating crossbows. (Doubleshot chance is divided by 3 for repeating crossbows.)

Manyshot
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 20 seconds you add your (base attack bonus * 4) to your Doubleshot and Ranged Power. This ability puts Ten Thousand Stars on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 2 minutes.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

Ten Thousand Stars
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 30 seconds you add your Wisdom ability score to your Ranged Power and you add your monk level * 5 to your Doubleshot. This ability puts Manyshot on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 1 minute.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

Mechanical Reloader (Rogue Mechanic)
The alacrity for non-repeating crossbows is now 30%. (Was 40%)

Pulverizer (Legendary Dreadnought)
The bonus to critical threat range for bludgeoning weapons is now an Insight bonus.

Improved Critical
These feats now add a bonus to critical threat range based purely on weapon type.
* Adds +3 to critical threat range for falchion, kukri, rapier, and scimitar.
* Adds +2 to the critical threat range of bastard sword, dagger, great crossbow, greatsword, heavy crossbow, khopesh, light crossbow, long sword, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, short sword, and throwing dagger.
* Adds +1 to all other weapons.

Keen
This loot effect now add a bonus to critical threat range based purely on weapon type.
* Adds +3 to critical threat range for falchion, kukri, rapier, and scimitar.
* Adds +2 to the critical threat range of bastard sword, dagger, great crossbow, greatsword, heavy crossbow, khopesh, light crossbow, long sword, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, short sword, and throwing dagger.
* Adds +1 to all other weapons.

Armor Changes
The amount of Physical Resist Rating that armor provides has been changed.
* Heavy armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 2) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
* Medium armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 1.5) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
* Light Armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 1) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
Fixed a bug where players were getting Physical Resist Rating for armor with which they were not proficient.

(Note: The Physical Resist Rating and Magical Resist Rating offered by shields remain unchanged.)

As a result of dialing back armor, some fighter only feats that will boost their effectiveness with armor and add to tactical DCs will also be included.

Tactical Training
Requires Fighter Level 4
You gain +2 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Combatant
Requires Fighter Level 8
You gain +4 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Mastery
Requires Fighter Level 12
You gain +6 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Supremacy
Requires Fighter Level 16
You gain +8 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Notes: All tactical feats stack for a total of +20. The lower level feats are not prerequisites for the higher level feats so a higher level fighter could save a feat if he/she wanted to skip Tactical Training and forego the +2 but still have access to Tatical Supremacy.

Heavy Armor Training
Requires Fighter Level 2
You gain +3 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Combatant
Requires Fighter Level 6
You gain +6 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Master
Requires Fighter Level 10
You gain +9 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Champion
Requires Fighter Level 14
You gain +12 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Notes: All Heavy Armor feats stack for a total of +30. The lower level feats are not prerequisites for the higher level feats so a higher level fighter could save a feat if he/she wanted to skip Heavy Armor Training and forego the +3 and still have access to Heavy Armor Champion.


Divine Grace (Paladin)
Divine Grace now provides a maximum bonus equal to 2 + (Paladin level x 3).

Eldritch Blast and other enhancements (Warlock)
The spellpower scaling for Eldritch Blast and several enhancements has been reduced.

Spellpower scaling of Warlock Abilities


Ability
Old
New


Eldritch Blast
150%
130%


Eldritch Blast Cone
130%
130%


Eldritch Blast Chain
110%
95%


Eldritch Blast Aura
150%
130%


Stricken (Souleater)
150%
125%


Consume (Souleater)
150%
125%


Eldritch Burst (Enlightened Spirit)
120%
100%


Spirit Blast (Enlightened Spirit)
120%
100%



I will be following up this post with some details on our thoughts on balance and design.

Sev~

Now I know I've said that I'm done posting here. However since you guys have updated the game I would like one final complete list of what you have done....

No comparisons, no doubletalk, Just a complete list of the everything in it's current state.

That way I can at least have the basis to reroll

The Bytcher~

[Souless]

Now I know I've said that I'm done posting here. However since you guys have updated the game I would like one final complete list of what you have done....

No comparisons, no doubletalk, Just a complete list of the everything in it's current state.

That way I can at least have the basis to reroll

The Bytcher~

NM.....I just read this list I guess at least u've done it already.

The Bytcher~

[zeonardo]

The unbalancing started back in U14 MotU with the introduction of EDs. Instead of letting toons gain power thru epic levels. what we faced the last four years, with each and every enhancement pass, was even more power creep. Making barb self healing *shakes head*. Nothing against Barbs. This were all strategic decisions by the devs. Now takign them back, after Pandoras Box is already open, what do they / you expect? That there is much rejoicing?

And take a close look at all the new quests since Shadowfell expansion. Epic Elite they are geared for the best of the best. And the best of the best are still complaining its too easy. What will change with the nerf? The best of the best will adapt and build their next FOTM build, going back on top and complaining DDO is too easy. And all other players will further fall behind in the power curve. And be frustrated that their builds (which woul dbe considered "orchid" by the power gamers) do not perform.

Metagaming already is the single most important factor to build a successful build, at least for EE. The new nerf/bug fix pass will not help with that.

I would never ever call any player "immature", not even those posting on the other forum. There simply is no propper balancing in DDO, at least not w/o scrapping all the enhancement passes and the EDs and going back to the drawboard. And that will not happen, let´s get over this. So there always will be players cookiecutting their builds and others trying to survive with what suits them best.

By the way, since you mentioned it, 8 years ago we were at what, cap 14? it´s much easier to balance for a small level range. And guess what, before ddo got much easier, opened up and went f2p, the game was neraly dead. It was going forward or closing. Want back into those times? Me not!





Warlock is still massvely OP, but not because of DPS. The only thing that does not need "fixing" in Warlock is DPS. What needs fixing is the tremendous advantage a WL (and WL splash!!!) gains thru ES tier 5 "Shining Through". That is the worst case of OP I have seen in DDO for years, and that includes the Pally before the 1st Holy Sword nerf. On a second thought, if WL is still perceived too OP after that fix, make blasts (not base blast, but all else, like chain blast...) cost SP. Problem solved. WL needs an up on DPS in epic levels, by the way. Any chance we get Draconic and Magister scale WL levels too?




I can see you have not been playing WL. Otherwise you would know that one single enhancement gives the WL that perceived OPedness you are ranting about. Any WL splash of at least 5 levels can take that enhancement at lv. 12 total. and ever there after is OP to the worst! The enhancement is named "Shining Through" and gives Con x 12 temporary hit points to the toon. You gain 25% healing amp on top of that for 20 seconds and the cooldown is just 30 seconds.

Take away exactly that one single enhancement, or even better, make it only give Con x 6 and make the cooldown at least one minute (better 2), and you will see how fast all the WL and WL splashes will vanish from EE or any content above lv. 12.

Pure WL needs some help until lv. 4. With lv. 4 WL gains enough power to do serious damage in heroic content. The WL reaches the damage maximum at lv. 20, and if EDs are available becomes nearly godlike powerful at that level. The Warlock does not gain more inherent blast DPS ever there after, with the exception of taking epic feats that give some few points of damage more. The WL power curve flattens significantly where most other builds quite finely get significantly more power - during epic levels. At lv. 28 the Warlock is barely on par with most medicore builds and clearly sub par compared to Swash, Pally, Barb and most fotm and exploiter builds.

So, WL is OP from lv. 4 onwards, gets a significant power boost at lv. 12 (Shining Through) and another upon reaching EDs on lv. 20. The WL maxes out at lv. 20, his power curve flattens out thereafter and upon reaching lv. 28 and end game, the WL is comparable to most other builds and even lags behind the EE power builds. Any build can take on 5 or 6 level of WL and profit from Shining Through.

What would be needed to do? In heroics, the DPS from a WL needs some tone down. A possible solution would be to make Blasts cost SP. That would keep WLs off too much DPS in heroic content. The Shining Through enhancement needs a complete nerf on both output and cooldown. Leave the current DPS intact, do the other nerfs. You will see how much the WL looses where it counts most: Heroic levels and early epics.

And for those telling me I do not play WL - I have played WL now several times, from 1 to 28. Yes, I know exactly what WL is capable and what not. WL is OP. But it´s not DPS.

And how do you explain this SS:
http://s12.postimg.org/6afyv1qql/Screen_Shot00172.jpg
Are warlocks spoiling the fun of every other party member and trivializing EE content with only Uber HP?
Are they killing 225 EE mobs with their sheer constitution?

[Enderoc]

not a single blunt weapon crit chance increase...or bows.

[Nestroy]

Are warlocks spoiling the fun of every other party member and trivializing EE content with only Uber HP?
Are they killing 225 EE mobs with their sheer constitution?

I think I gave a more detailed answer here. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466698-Dear-devs-enlightened-spirit-changes-please-reconsider/page4)

Here a short version: While there are certain WL builds and splashes, that can do tremendous damage in a quest, they are still off what current Barb, Pally, Bard and Ranger builds are capable of doing. And most exploiter wolfs and Shuriken expoiter builds. What you are telling us: You (and perhaps some of your group) were galled to see one of the ubers rocking content. I have seen such on quite some builds and players lately, e.g. Bards leading kill counts by a landslide. And I have been running with them on my WL. What you try to showcase to us is the fact that a geared out and maxed PL vet uber build can rock content. The only new information gained here is the fact that WLs can do this too.

There had been a time when the other caster classes were likely uber. Wizzies and Sorcs nuking everything into oblivion, like there would not have been a tomorrow. Nowadays it´s usually melees and some ranged builds doing this kind of stuff. Good to see at least one arcane class beeing able to keep up with meanwhile older EE stuff. Time to get a general caster pass.

[elvesunited]

Testing on dummy with a wold druid. Criticals have improved but .....

Previously ....

Wolf form crits only on 19 and 20 regardless of improved critical feat.

Now .....

Wolf form crits on 18, 19, and 20 but not 17.

So it's +1 crit range from the feat for the wolf. Not +2.

[Grace_ana]

I'm not on board with a lot of the changes, but I find the exploitation of this person's story by another poster unhappy with the changes really disturbing. This story was posted by the original poster once. It has now been plastered in at least two or three other threads by someone using it to apparently claim that the changes are so bad they are literally ruining someone's life. Personally, I wouldn't claim someone as a friend and use them and their personal life for my own purposes.

[raeslys]

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the armor/tactics feats, but given that the lower feats are not prereqs for the higher I would think the more valid question is whether 2 feats are worth 21 prr, or 3 feats are worth 27 prr/mrr. There's a logical inconsistency in saying fighters don't have enough feats to get everything they need and then be willing to spend a feat to get 3 prr/mrr when you likely already have reasonable amounts of prr/mrr through feats/enhances/equipment.

As you wish, but 4 Feats for 30 prr/mrr is a garbage, and I do not think many people is willing to sacrifice more than two feats in its, I think it. Feats are very important. Other better solution is a feat like Toughness. That you can get always you want and you get 5/10/15 prr/mrr if you have light/medium/heavy armor. Then it can be a little useful.

Outside your personal tastes, you have to see the impact on the game. The long run this detracts diversity to the game, less melle dps, less tanks, more melle with evation (goodbye lv 20 capstons), and very more warlocks and mechanics.

[FerretBabette]

I got pretty aggravated recently due to handwraps being gimped by the change combined with chronic lag making the game unplayable and I raged about quitting the game.
After talking with a fellow guildie, (a software developer herself), and seeing some other posters here who seem maintain pretty steady positive perspectives, regardless of their own game playing challenges..AND fellow guildies who LOVE their monk toons but didn't miss much of a beat when their wraps got nerfed.. ..I had a change of heart about quitting this game.

Still..the mere thought of the lag which has been an old persistent issue still aggravates me and I cringe at the thought of upcoming holidays where I have personally had more time to play, but haven't been able to due so to game stopping lag.
Yet in all fairness..I didn't want to deal with submitting bug reports everytime it happened and maybe some submitted details can help with the issue.
Some folks don't seem even really bothered by it..and maybe if I had more time to play..the subject might be a shoulder shrugger for me as well.
In the spirit of Occam's razor however..I do think and will say..if a customer pays for a product..seems like they should be able to use it.
Especially a video game during the holidays...but enough of that. What I will commit to on that topic is to try to do something productive with the frustration with deep breath and detailed bug report and see where that goes.
Hopefully at least some transparency about the lag root causes to start.

Ok ..that was a focus on LAG.

Now. Before and after balance change with my barbarian.

Very first barb toon for me. I was inspired by a video I saw a month or so ago of Eth doing CITW EH PDK with hammers and then a great post by Red Sonja on some logistics of how to approach a 2wf barb build.
It just looked really fun and I wanted to try a different melee toon to play thru martial epic tree lives but I also wanted survivability and was hoping fast healing, blood strength and consecration twist would get me that on my lil toon with not so many past lives yet...

Before the change I decided to test her with some Whelon quests on Epic Hard solo. I did 2 of the quests. Loved it. Very fun. Look ma no hireling! :-D
2WF-warhammers main hand drow with stunning and offhand thunderforged.
PDK Level 26
Ravager mainly for the blood strength and other treats.

After the change:
Same build same weapons and I finished the chain.
Maybe slight difference in dps and I hardly noticed the 1 sec cooldown on blood strength at all...especially with fast healing ticking as well.
The quests 'felt' a little more challenging especially with the crowned shadar kai but it probably should feel kinda challenging for Epic Hard solo....even after a few past lives.. (I only have 4 or 5 at this point on Ferbear.)


Overall for me on the barb pre and post change, I was able to complete some epic hard quests solo and that was very fun.

Eventually I hope to be able to do some epic elites just as smoothly on any class and contribute effectively and funly to any groups I run with.

Thankies for reading.
Apologies for previously unproductive angry rantz. (I totally blame the FerretBarbarian Raging RoaawerrFrenzy!) X-D

[FeartheBow]

In the beginning I was told to take bow strength feat. So my Strength would apply to bow damage. I did this but when I examine the bow it says DEX. Now whatever has happened within the mechanics of the game is now wanting me to have a high Wisdom score to make Manyshot work correctly. So now I am totally confused. As a half elf aa ranger do I go strength? Dex? or wisdom? and do I still need bow strength?. It just seems totally screwed up at the moment Oh and one other thing is now I am supposed to have some sort of spellcraft or something like that along those lines that's supposed to "boost" my elemental arrows damage? Why not just hand the Cleric or the Wizard the bow now? It went from complicated to common core math <----this means totally screwed up. FUBAR!

[Faltout]

In the beginning I was told to take bow strength feat. So my Strength would apply to bow damage. I did this but when I examine the bow it says DEX. Now whatever has happened within the mechanics of the game is now wanting me to have a high Wisdom score to make Manyshot work correctly. So now I am totally confused. As a half elf aa ranger do I go strength? Dex? or wisdom? and do I still need bow strength?. It just seems totally screwed up at the moment Oh and one other thing is now I am supposed to have some sort of spellcraft or something like that along those lines that's supposed to "boost" my elemental arrows damage? Why not just hand the Cleric or the Wizard the bow now? It went from complicated to common core math <----this means totally screwed up. FUBAR!
So you're buffled by the choices?

STR: go deepwood and tempest with dual heavy weapons. Utilize stunning blow. Switch to bow for some ranged damage and activate manyshot while at it.

DEX: go tempest and deepwood with light weapons (scimitars usually). Use bow for some ranged damage and activate manyshot while at it.

DEX: Go arcane archer and deepwood and choose the elemental imbues. Slot a spell power ruby somewhere and do some elemental damage.

DEX, WIS: Go arcane archer and deepwood and choose the CC imbues. Slot a spell focus sapphire somewhere and get your enchant DCs up to 50 where they'll proc reliably in EE content.

WIS, DEX: Go play a monkcher and choose the CC imbues. Use 10k stars and manyshot.

From your post I get that you're trying to have all. No, you have to choose what you want to play. Either mainly melee or elemental damage or CC abilities. Choose your main stat according to what you decide.

[elg582]

So, was the intention to remove bows as a viable option from the game?

It used to be that the best tactic was to switch to TWF while manyshot and 10k stars were on cooldown; now the best tactic is to never pull the bow out to begin with.

More evidence that no one at Turbine is actually allowed to play the game.....

[gwonbush]

I was running ToEE and I found a weapon that was forgotten in the IC changes: Crainum Cracker (and the corresponding epic version). It was a club with a 19-20/x3 crit multiplier (17-20/x3 with IC), but didn't get the increased crit range that other named items got with the IC changes to stay at the same level, which would be a 18-20/x3 base (17-20/x3 with IC).

[sithhound]

Not saying the nerf wasn't needed, powercreep has been in full effect for awhile now, but what about +6 tomes? If you get a +6 supreme tome, that is 36 points. It takes 2 tr lives to go from 32 pt build to a 36 pt build. Then to go from a 36 pt build to a 72 pt build, all you have to do is spend alot of $$$. Admitedly, it is alot of bank to do so, but that doesn't make anything fair about it.

[elvesunited]

Not saying the nerf wasn't needed, powercreep has been in full effect for awhile now, but what about +6 tomes? If you get a +6 supreme tome, that is 36 points. It takes 2 tr lives to go from 32 pt build to a 36 pt build. Then to go from a 36 pt build to a 72 pt build, all you have to do is spend alot of $$$. Admitedly, it is alot of bank to do so, but that doesn't make anything fair about it.

On the plus side power gamers who put down hard cash for +6 Tomes for all stats for each of their characters are financing the game for the rest of us cheapskates.

[unbongwah]

Not saying the nerf wasn't needed, powercreep has been in full effect for awhile now, but what about +6 tomes? If you get a +6 supreme tome, that is 36 points. It takes 2 tr lives to go from 32 pt build to a 36 pt build. Then to go from a 36 pt build to a 72 pt build, all you have to do is spend alot of $$$. Admitedly, it is alot of bank to do so, but that doesn't make anything fair about it.
If DDO was a competitive PvP game, I would be upset about "P2W" elements. Fortunately, it's not: it's primarily a PvE coop-based MMORPG with an almost superfluous PvP component. So if other players want to spend moolah on tomes, or raid bypass timers, or a "P2W" race like Bladeforged, or whatever, it doesn't impact my enjoyment of DDO in the slightest. And if the knowledge that other people have "better" characters than you because they were willing & able to spend money that you didn't - in a game which doesn't even have real leaderboards, much less a serious competitive element - somehow ruins your enjoyment of DDO, well, that's your problem to sort out, not mine. :cool:

Furthermore, the powercreep introduced by +6 tomes is relatively minor: +3 dmg here, +3 DCs there, +84 HPs at endgame, etc. Class imbalances bother me because it means some players are at a serious disadvantage compared to others solely because they picked the "wrong" class to play; either because they weren't aware of the imbalances or they wanted to play their favorite D&D class. Never mind endgame viability: game mechanics which encourage the player base to pick from a subset of "worthy" builds because some classes are a lot more powerful than others is a poorly balanced game, IMHO.

Which is not to suggest every class should be equally good at everything, of course; that just gets boring. And perfect class balance is probably an impossible-to-solve optimization exercise. But every class should be able to contribute meaningfully because they should all have some signature set of useful abilities which makes their class / PrE unique.

EDIT: "useful" being the key qualifier here. Druids are meant to be the primary summoner class in D&D; but summoning is so weak in DDO, it's almost like a bad joke to suggest it's druids' "signature move." :(

[sithhound]

On the plus side power gamers who put down hard cash for +6 Tomes for all stats for each of their characters are financing the game for the rest of us cheapskates.

True story. Guess I should be saying thanks. lol.

[esojiul]

Greetings.

We've seen a lot of community feedback, both public and private, about our ongoing plans for balance. These are some changes we are considering to increase game balance.

As with any post that outlines power reductions (aka nerfs) I am sure there will be a lot of players looking for explanations and our thoughts and results on balance that led to these changes. I will be following up this post with more details that talk about why some of these changes are being implemented.

***

Holy Sword (Paladin)
This is now a spell that affects the paladin and buffs whatever melee weapon is being wielded in the main hand.
It no longer persists on your weapon but instead buffs the melee weapon you are holding in your main hand. (Yes, this buffs your two handed weapons.)
It no longer affects missile weapons.
It no longer can be used to buff off hand weapons or shields.
If you change weapons the spell will drop off the unequipped weapon and instead be applied to the newly equipped weapon.

Blood Strength (Barbarian Ravager)
The portion of this enhancement that heals the user when they kill an opponent now has a 1 second internal cooldown.

Critical Rage (Barbarian Ravager)
The bonus to critical threat range is now a competence bonus.

Two weapon fighting animations have been fixed so there is no longer a weird jump on the fourth animation. This has made the fourth attack slightly quicker.

Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.
Improved Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.
Greater Two Weapon Fighting no longer grants melee power.

Doubleshot values over 100% now have a chance of producing a third attack. The chance is equal to the amount the value exceeds 100. A doubleshot value of 130, for example, would always produce one extra shot and have a 30% chance to produce a third shot.

(Doublestrike will still cap at 100 for technical reasons.)

Repeating Crossbows and Doubleshot
Fixed a bug where Doubleshot was not being reduced for repeating crossbows. (Doubleshot chance is divided by 3 for repeating crossbows.)

Manyshot
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 20 seconds you add your (base attack bonus * 4) to your Doubleshot and Ranged Power. This ability puts Ten Thousand Stars on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 2 minutes.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

Ten Thousand Stars
This ability is being redesigned.
For the next 30 seconds you add your Wisdom ability score to your Ranged Power and you add your monk level * 5 to your Doubleshot. This ability puts Manyshot on a 30 second cooldown. Cooldown 1 minute.
(This ability no longer gives a doubleshot penalty when activated.)

Mechanical Reloader (Rogue Mechanic)
The alacrity for non-repeating crossbows is now 30%. (Was 40%)

Pulverizer (Legendary Dreadnought)
The bonus to critical threat range for bludgeoning weapons is now an Insight bonus.

Improved Critical
These feats now add a bonus to critical threat range based purely on weapon type.
* Adds +3 to critical threat range for falchion, kukri, rapier, and scimitar.
* Adds +2 to the critical threat range of bastard sword, dagger, great crossbow, greatsword, heavy crossbow, khopesh, light crossbow, long sword, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, short sword, and throwing dagger.
* Adds +1 to all other weapons.

Keen
This loot effect now add a bonus to critical threat range based purely on weapon type.
* Adds +3 to critical threat range for falchion, kukri, rapier, and scimitar.
* Adds +2 to the critical threat range of bastard sword, dagger, great crossbow, greatsword, heavy crossbow, khopesh, light crossbow, long sword, repeating heavy crossbow, repeating light crossbow, short sword, and throwing dagger.
* Adds +1 to all other weapons.

Armor Changes
The amount of Physical Resist Rating that armor provides has been changed.
* Heavy armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 2) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
* Medium armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 1.5) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
* Light Armor now increases Physical Resist Rating by (base attack bonus * 1) and no longer adds Magical Resist Rating.
Fixed a bug where players were getting Physical Resist Rating for armor with which they were not proficient.

(Note: The Physical Resist Rating and Magical Resist Rating offered by shields remain unchanged.)

As a result of dialing back armor, some fighter only feats that will boost their effectiveness with armor and add to tactical DCs will also be included.

Tactical Training
Requires Fighter Level 4
You gain +2 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Combatant
Requires Fighter Level 8
You gain +4 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Mastery
Requires Fighter Level 12
You gain +6 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Tactical Supremacy
Requires Fighter Level 16
You gain +8 to the DC of all tactical feats.

Notes: All tactical feats stack for a total of +20. The lower level feats are not prerequisites for the higher level feats so a higher level fighter could save a feat if he/she wanted to skip Tactical Training and forego the +2 but still have access to Tatical Supremacy.

Heavy Armor Training
Requires Fighter Level 2
You gain +3 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Combatant
Requires Fighter Level 6
You gain +6 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Master
Requires Fighter Level 10
You gain +9 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Heavy Armor Champion
Requires Fighter Level 14
You gain +12 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating while wearing heavy armor.

Notes: All Heavy Armor feats stack for a total of +30. The lower level feats are not prerequisites for the higher level feats so a higher level fighter could save a feat if he/she wanted to skip Heavy Armor Training and forego the +3 and still have access to Heavy Armor Champion.


Divine Grace (Paladin)
Divine Grace now provides a maximum bonus equal to 2 + (Paladin level x 3).

Eldritch Blast and other enhancements (Warlock)
The spellpower scaling for Eldritch Blast and several enhancements has been reduced.

Spellpower scaling of Warlock Abilities


Ability
Old
New


Eldritch Blast
150%
130%


Eldritch Blast Cone
130%
130%


Eldritch Blast Chain
110%
95%


Eldritch Blast Aura
150%
130%


Stricken (Souleater)
150%
125%


Consume (Souleater)
150%
125%


Eldritch Burst (Enlightened Spirit)
120%
100%


Spirit Blast (Enlightened Spirit)
120%
100%



I will be following up this post with some details on our thoughts on balance and design.

Sev~

dont nerfed more the warlocks

[gwonbush]

dont nerfed more the warlocks

A bit late. The balance changes in the post have been in the game for weeks now.

[Paramedicus]

I'd put this up here since no admin or rep ever responded while I was a VIP:

I'd like you guys to "rebalance" the VIP vs purchasing classes or quest packs while they're on sale at the Store.

Oddly enough, I COULD buy a druid, or artificer. Yet I could NOT buy a Warlock (While a VIP member). I was primarily playing a Warlock, and of course now that I did buy it outright after stopping my VIP (due to being so aggravated over the stupidity in not being able to buy some classes while being a VIP), the Warlock is getting downgraded. Bait and switch. Nice.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, if one spent 3000 points in the Store, there was a 30% discount. Of COURSE, as I said, the Warlock was not available to buy for VIP members. Great logic: Punish the VIPs.

As I said in the other post, I had -two- concurrent VIP memberships; I had my own, and my son's. I canceled them both due to the blatant disregard VIPs in not being able to take advantage of discounts. I truly don't understand the bias against the VIPs. For the cost of the VIP, especially given there are TWO, I could have bought several PC games and owned them rather than just rent, per se. I know population of players is dwindling, and given I clearly was (AM) a paying player, I would have thought the admin would value a basic logic in keeping VIPs happy.

Two accounts losing 30% discount on the 3000 points each is 1800 points. Neither my son nor myself could buy the class/quests we wanted. Anyway, if I get no reply, I'm not renewing. I canceled out of frustration, but making it right would keep me. Period.

I know you can get my IP and see my son's former VIP account as well. I'm not blowing smoke.

[Paramedicus]

Is this place dead or do admin just not respond? I could just dump my money into POE instead at this rate :/

[EllisDee37]

Is this place dead or do admin just not respond? I could just dump my money into POE instead at this rate :/This thread is finished; it was for discussion of a specific set of balance changes before they went live. Those changes (modified based on the discussion in this thread) have since gone live, so this thread no longer has relevance.

Your VIP issues sound annoying, and may very well point to a bug in the new store. I would encourage you to start a new thread.

[FestusHood]

I'd put this up here since no admin or rep ever responded while I was a VIP:

I'd like you guys to "rebalance" the VIP vs purchasing classes or quest packs while they're on sale at the Store.

Oddly enough, I COULD buy a druid, or artificer. Yet I could NOT buy a Warlock (While a VIP member). I was primarily playing a Warlock, and of course now that I did buy it outright after stopping my VIP (due to being so aggravated over the stupidity in not being able to buy some classes while being a VIP), the Warlock is getting downgraded. Bait and switch. Nice.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, if one spent 3000 points in the Store, there was a 30% discount. Of COURSE, as I said, the Warlock was not available to buy for VIP members. Great logic: Punish the VIPs.

As I said in the other post, I had -two- concurrent VIP memberships; I had my own, and my son's. I canceled them both due to the blatant disregard VIPs in not being able to take advantage of discounts. I truly don't understand the bias against the VIPs. For the cost of the VIP, especially given there are TWO, I could have bought several PC games and owned them rather than just rent, per se. I know population of players is dwindling, and given I clearly was (AM) a paying player, I would have thought the admin would value a basic logic in keeping VIPs happy.

Two accounts losing 30% discount on the 3000 points each is 1800 points. Neither my son nor myself could buy the class/quests we wanted. Anyway, if I get no reply, I'm not renewing. I canceled out of frustration, but making it right would keep me. Period.

I know you can get my IP and see my son's former VIP account as well. I'm not blowing smoke.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but are druid and artificer not included in vip subscription? The store is set up, not just for vip's, but everybody, so that you can't buy something you already have. My question would be why did you want to buy warlock if you already had access to it via being vip? Were you already planning on dropping your vip subscription?

[Paramedicus]

This thread is finished; it was for discussion of a specific set of balance changes before they went live. Those changes (modified based on the discussion in this thread) have since gone live, so this thread no longer has relevance.

Your VIP issues sound annoying, and may very well point to a bug in the new store. I would encourage you to start a new thread.

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For some reason, I cannot start a thread. Before I was a VIP I could only reply. Now that I'm not a VIP I can only reply yet again. I bought points PRIOR to being a VIP just the same.

One cannot, as a VIP, buy certain things from the store (such as Warlock class). VIP exclusion from buying Warlock class, especially during a 30% off (if I were to spend my 3000 points, which I was) makes -zero- sense. The Monk class for my son was not available to purchase either...again during our VIP status.

It's easy enough to see the history of my and my son's accounts. When the game punishes indirectly, a VIP in that you cannot buy what's on sale, that makes no sense.

As for the "permissions" on posting, these are the default I found the game/forum in - I was never able to post anything. When I went VIP, I was able...but that's been removed since I'm not a VIP again unless this gets resolved. 900 points for 3000 spent x2 accounts was pretty significant.

[Paramedicus]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but are druid and artificer not included in vip subscription? The store is set up, not just for vip's, but everybody, so that you can't buy something you already have. My question would be why did you want to buy warlock if you already had access to it via being vip? Were you already planning on dropping your vip subscription?

I'm an EMT. It's a "whopping" 11 bucks an hour. VIP is expensive for me, let alone having my son's account too. You rent when you are a VIP. Who wouldn't want to buy something when you get 30% back? I had the points for it (Warlock and other stuff), but Warlock was bait and switch being downgraded while being most expensive class. It's a double screw over per se.

[Cordovan]

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For some reason, I cannot start a thread. Before I was a VIP I could only reply. Now that I'm not a VIP I can only reply yet again. I bought points PRIOR to being a VIP just the same.

One cannot, as a VIP, buy certain things from the store (such as Warlock class). VIP exclusion from buying Warlock class, especially during a 30% off (if I were to spend my 3000 points, which I was) makes -zero- sense. The Monk class for my son was not available to purchase either...again during our VIP status.

It's easy enough to see the history of my and my son's accounts. When the game punishes indirectly, a VIP in that you cannot buy what's on sale, that makes no sense.

As for the "permissions" on posting, these are the default I found the game/forum in - I was never able to post anything. When I went VIP, I was able...but that's been removed since I'm not a VIP again unless this gets resolved. 900 points for 3000 spent x2 accounts was pretty significant.

Let me follow up with you through PM. Unsure what's going on; when I look at your settings nothing strikes me as amiss.

[slarden]

And how do you explain this SS:
http://s12.postimg.org/6afyv1qql/Screen_Shot00172.jpg
Are warlocks spoiling the fun of every other party member and trivializing EE content with only Uber HP?
Are they killing 225 EE mobs with their sheer constitution?

The person that posted that already acknowledge they arrived very late and hid their kill count as well. Any class can do the same thing with kill count if they start the quest solo or with a few under-powered characters.

[esojiul]

Greetings.


I will be following up this post with some details on our thoughts on balance and design.

Sev~

I wont touch more the warlock, the Artificer and fighters will improved with updated 29, but still requeried extra touch. And why dont change tier 5 spell of sorcers enhaments from const to charisma

[Reynarn]

Wrong title,
these are nor balancing changes, these are serious nerfs for a lot of builds.
If your intention is balance, than focus on e.g. unarmed monks, DC spellcasting, the insane HP mob meatbags in EE, starving artificers.

These planned changes will mainly hit casual players, who have found a performing (in your words an overperforming) build and enjoying it to play DDO.
A triple heroic/epic completionist character will just shrug and continue, a first life toon in the hand of an once in a while player will be simply unusable.

1) How many players will stop to play DDO due to these changes?
2) How many players will start to play DDO due to these changes?
3) How many players will continue to play DDO due to these changes, but would have stopped otherwise?

I bet option 1) outbalances the other two points combined.

Let's put it this way, I'm regretting the three month subscription, I just made. Sounds like best case scenario, it will be that long until the builds are redone. From what I am hearing, I'm glad I have never reached epic level.