What is so good about enlightened spirit, exactly?

[Lemdog]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

[Hobgoblin]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

group with better locks

[lifestaker]

group with better locks

^This

[FranOhmsford]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

My Fey ES's have grouped with Acid and Fire Specced Locks who I assume weren't ES and have only once lost a Kill Count by more than single figures! {A Completionist Acid Specced Lock beat my 2nd Life Lock on Khyber in STK but that was a completionist!}.


Having not run Epics yet on either of my Warlocks I'll just say that the HPs of mobs in Epics are high enough that the one-shot kill status of Spirit Blast and two-shot kill status of Eldritch Burst+Spirit Blast is gone and it comes down to who gets the last hit.

In Pre-MotU End-Game level Heroics like Detour and Mindsunder my ES has been beaten on the Kill Count {by a handful of kills} by a Wolf Druid and a Rogue Mech respectively - Both are very good at getting last hits in!


Finally - It's going to depend heavily on the Players involved - I'm guessing that you're a pretty good player and that you've been running with ES Warlocks who aren't as good {It doesn't need to be a huge difference in skill levels either - Gear can play a major role even for Warlocks}.


This is my Enhancement Page at Lvl 18:

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b559/ChaseWolf/ScreenShot00056_zpsm7linldo.jpg (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/ChaseWolf/media/ScreenShot00056_zpsm7linldo.jpg.html)

At 20 I took the final two Cores in ES, 1 point in Harper and 3 points in Soul Eater Hungry for Destruction.

No Consume, No Stricken, No Utterdark Blast, No Stanch!

[slarden]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

Agreed, if they are going to nerf warlock it should be souleater over enlightened spirt. The wave is quite amazing.

[DrWily]

Agreed, if they are going to nerf warlock it should be souleater over enlightened spirt. The wave is quite amazing.

Actually, that's where you're wrong. Eldritch Wave got a huge buff in the latest update because is was slow as molasses and players didn't like that. It makes the Souleater warlocks on par with the Scholar and Spirit warlocks instead of slightly inferior, since Souleater appears to be a single-target DPS focused tree.

[slarden]

Actually, that's where you're wrong. Eldritch Wave got a huge buff in the latest update because is was slow as molasses and players didn't like that. It makes the Souleater warlocks on par with the Scholar and Spirit warlocks instead of slightly inferior, since Souleater appears to be a single-target DPS focused tree.

I was just agreeing with the OP. You will have to take up the argument with him. He says it is definitely a much better tree and I won't argue with that.

[Enoach]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

The ES tree has some features that I think you are discounting.

First the "Cleave" abilities are powered by Light Spell Power and just like Wave don't need the Eldritch Blast turned on to use. But there are two of them and unlike wave these "cleaves" are 360 degree. This allows the flexibility of using Eldritch blast in conjunction or melee/range weapons.

Next, the Armor Proficiency. This helps with PRR and in conjunction to the additional Temporary HP.

It all comes down to play style.

What I recommend honestly is don't stick with one way to do a Warlock. Try different things and different trees.

Warlock has the potential of being a Nuke, A melee, A range and even a DC focus. If you want to find out what Warlock has to offer try different things.

[slarden]

The ES tree has some features that I think you are discounting.

First the "Cleave" abilities are powered by Light Spell Power and just like Wave don't need the Eldritch Blast turned on to use. But there are two of them and unlike wave these "cleaves" are 360 degree. This allows the flexibility of using Eldritch blast in conjunction or melee/range weapons.

Next, the Armor Proficiency. This helps with PRR and in conjunction to the additional Temporary HP.

It all comes down to play style.

What I recommend honestly is don't stick with one way to do a Warlock. Try different things and different trees.

Warlock has the potential of being a Nuke, A melee, A range and even a DC focus. If you want to find out what Warlock has to offer try different things.

I think what he is saying is that since the speed increase of eldritch wave it's now better with the triple wave with 150% scaling to spellpower. That actually makes sense since it was improved this past update.

Really all 3 trees offer great options for casters which is nice. Eldritch wave is clearly the king of warlock burst dps, but you can't go deep in both enlightened spirt and tainted scholar so either have to give up light spellpower/procs or crit %/increased eld blast dice.

I love the choices are so good, but with the improvement to the eldritch wave I can't disagree that it's the most OP warlock ability at the moment - huge burst dps and worth considering.

[DrWily]

Also, the Eldritch Wave is still very picky on who and when it wants to hit.

For example, if an enemy you're targeting for the wave gets behind you as you cast, it interrupts the ability but still puts it on cooldown. And even if there are other mobs in the waves path when it hits it treats the attack as non-existent, that was a major problem last update.

As far as casting goes for the trees, I see Spirit as light spellpower, Scholar as crit dmg overload, and Souleater as crit chance + debuff.

[Bennum]

I think what he is saying is that since the speed increase of eldritch wave it's now better with the triple wave with 150% scaling to spellpower. That actually makes sense since it was improved this past update.

Really all 3 trees offer great options for casters which is nice. Eldritch wave is clearly the king of warlock burst dps, but you can't go deep in both enlightened spirt and tainted scholar so either have to give up light spellpower/procs or crit %/increased eld blast dice.

I love the choices are so good, but with the improvement to the eldritch wave I can't disagree that it's the most OP warlock ability at the moment - huge burst dps and worth considering.
Sorry but Shining Through is still the most OP thing I have seen in any tree ever. And to the op I believe this ability and the near invincibility it gives warlocks in ES is the reason 90 percent of Warlocks run in it.

[slarden]

Sorry but Shining Through is still the most OP thing I have seen in any tree ever. And to the op I believe this ability and the near invincibility it gives warlocks in ES is the reason 90 percent of Warlocks run in it.

I wish they would have just eliminated shining through instead of nerfing spirit blast and eldritch burst. If they give me back my 30% spellpower boost on both I can live without it.

[slarden]

Also, the Eldritch Wave is still very picky on who and when it wants to hit.

For example, if an enemy you're targeting for the wave gets behind you as you cast, it interrupts the ability but still puts it on cooldown. And even if there are other mobs in the waves path when it hits it treats the attack as non-existent, that was a major problem last update.

As far as casting goes for the trees, I see Spirit as light spellpower, Scholar as crit dmg overload, and Souleater as crit chance + debuff.

Well I am not calling for any nerfs, but with all the ES hate I am glad to hear people stating souleater is better.

The wave is maybe double damage compared to spirit blast. I am wondering how much better it is now - I tried it shortly after warlock came out and didn't like it over other options. I definitely want to try it out.

[DrWily]

Well I am not calling for any nerfs, but with all the ES hate I am glad to hear people stating souleater is better.

The wave is maybe double damage compared to spirit blast. I am wondering how much better it is now - I tried it shortly after warlock came out and didn't like it over other options. I definitely want to try it out.

Yeah, double damage to Spirit Blast alone, possibly on par with Spirit Blast + Eldritch Burst. They also have their own functions. But I haven't picked up Burst this life, and I probably won't next life either with the AP being tight on my builds.

[maddong]

I used tier 5 es to breeze thru heroics brain dead without healing. Once I got my twists back I switched to waves/consume/stricken tier 5 core 18 for dps with core 12 ts for crits and I think core 12 es for aura. I mixed the burst and stun in also to max my mana free abilities that used max/emp.

[Lemdog]

Sorry but Shining Through is still the most OP thing I have seen in any tree ever. And to the op I believe this ability and the near invincibility it gives warlocks in ES is the reason 90 percent of Warlocks run in it.

Shining through is pretty good in heroics, but in epics those temp hps go away fast. It's also a long(ish) cooldown.

[Pnumbra]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

In the realm of the Warlock, comparing the trees has to be done with a modicum of separation. ES is melee centered with SLAs that help bring the fight to them (burst/blast). TS is a CC caster that is highly versatile, while SE is a high single target DPS caster. What I haven't experienced is a Warlock that takes only one tree. I will guess that most well built models are a primary/secondary approach (pure builds).

There are ways to make really strong Warlocks in any of these templates. I wouldn't say your build outshines, but I read you have found a way to replace the need for ES and performance is on par or in some cases better - according to your play style and gear setup.

My build is truly melee centered. Every feat and slotted item must support melee. I mentioned this because my experience with other Warlocks is that they are too spread out - they lack commitment to one of the three archetypes - speaking of pure builds only. I play in US, wear medium armor (wai), have high DPS, High MRR/PRR, and TWF.


Other Note(s):
I actually dislike the floating mechanic. That is a Pale Master effect. The glowing eyes are cool as is the cascading light power around our feet.

[slarden]

Everyone left will be running tier 5 souleater for eldritch wave after the upcoming nerfage. As far as I can tell Eldritch Wave is the only big burst dps left unscathed.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Was Pure 20 GrOO Drow Cha/Int/Con with T5s in TS, t4s and cores in SE and a smattering in ES.

Eldritch Ball has not been changed and was pretty awesome esp with Enlarge and in Shiradi.

Enlarge on Confusions/Stunning Blasts/Consume/Stricken etc etc makes losing Shining Through to another trees T5s bearable.

I'd probably build similarly 'cept with Fey Pact for Dark Delirium and PL Warlock for 10 No Save Confusions per rest which are supah sweet ;)

[slarden]

Was Pure 20 GrOO Drow Cha/Int/Con with T5s in TS, t4s and cores in SE and a smattering in ES.

Eldritch Ball has not been changed and was pretty awesome esp with Enlarge and in Shiradi.

Enlarge on Confusions/Stunning Blasts/Consume/Stricken etc etc makes losing Shining Through to another trees T5s bearable.

I'd probably build similarly 'cept with Fey Pact for Dark Delirium and PL Warlock for 10 No Save Confusions per rest which are supah sweet ;)

Good point I guess I should take another look at eldritch ball. I ran with trainted scholar tier 5 until eeAmarath was released and it worked well. I just found it difficult to target once I was at close range.

[Lonnbeimnech]

ES is like driving down a road like this with cruise control turned on.

http://7-themes.com/data_images/out/72/7019153-long-straight-road.jpg

[FranOhmsford]

ES is like driving down a road like this with cruise control turned on.

http://7-themes.com/data_images/out/72/7019153-long-straight-road.jpg

Up to Lvl 18 this holds true even for E-BB!

At Lvl 20 this holds true for many Lvl 17-19 Heroic Elites and for King's Forest Slayer!

In Epics this holds true for EN and probably EH but EE not so much for me atm.

I haven't E-TRd my Warlock yet however and also aren't in Max Destiny so you could be right even for EE-BB!

[Pnumbra]

ES is like driving down a road like this with cruise control turned on.

http://7-themes.com/data_images/out/72/7019153-long-straight-road.jpg

Route 66 is a wonderful drive and the selected use of cruise control is a welcomed option. Most of the time, ES just stands firm in the road and meets all challenges with firm resolve. Wait, this is what most melee based toons do - Paladins, Barbarians and various Frankenstein emulsifications.

[FranOhmsford]

Shining through is pretty good in heroics, but in epics those temp hps go away fast. It's also a long(ish) cooldown.

Which is why I suggested moving it to ES Core 18 or even Capstone rather than removing it entirely or nerfing it into oblivion.

This way it really doesn't impact Heroics in the way it frankly still does with the Devs changes.
AND
It's still exactly the same as always in Epics.


Because of Lore Reasons the ONLY Warlock Pact I'll ever use is Fey!
I also don't like a lot of the supposed uber abilities in Souleater and Tainted Scholar for those same Lore Reasons so whenever I play a Warlock it's going to be ES anyway!

[elvesunited]

Shining through is nice and all but it's a Tier 5 ability which means your soul eater and tainted souls will lose access to their tree's top abilities if they take it and I've seen many warlocks not make that sacrifice.

But 31 AP Enlightened gets you medium armor, aura of menance ( effectively +2 DC for enemies within range ), +6d6 light damage per attack, limited knockdown immunity, +PPR, +MRR( at least 10), +30 lightpower +12 universal spell power, and more.

That added damage synergizes really well with Soul Eater and Tainted and gives a boost to survivability as well. So from a straight DPS consideration/survival, they're well suited to take Enlightened as their secondary enhancement tree.

[Vanhooger]

Still playing my lock mainly ES with capstone and sholar + bit of souleater. I still find it overpowered compared to any other caster and not only caster.

ES is better if you like to tank a boss and use aura instead of chain. Scolar I had a overall better dps with 60 crit & less hp, but not too much of a difference.

I stopped playing DC warlock when amrath came out. There is no place for them anymore.

[dunklezhan]

Actually, that's where you're wrong.


Reminds me of this blackadder sketch. Watch till the end, all will become clear. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EfW9znJYjw)

[Tom116]

Almost every warlock i come across either has those two cleaves, 600 some temp hp, and is floating! My warlock build completely avoids enlightened spirit and it outshines enlightened spirits anyday!

My build is a souleater T5 and TS capstone. It kills waves of mobs with eldritch wave while that enlightened spirit is just trying to burst down 4 or 5 mobs! So tell me, what is so good about Enlightened spirit, is it something im missing?

Oh BTW i play in Shiradi on this warlock mainly, but also EA to an extent, if that makes any difference.

I ran a similar build warlock up through L25ish before converting. Some reasons I did include survivability (the ES capstone is great for hp, and the 5th core immunity to knockdown is handy too) and AoE damage. I found that while I did more damage to smaller crowds and especially bosses (maxxed out consume/stricken are amazing), the sheer amount of mobs thrown at you combined with the incoming damage (at least on EE) made me swing over to ES. The light damage on EB/light spellpower from the tree pretty much keep your damage where it was before (other than consume/stricken for single targets), and you can easily hit 10+ mobs with your aura and cleaves.

I used to have to be somewhat careful playing on EE (and even some EH), now it's just float around and cleave, most things drop quite quickly. The 8sp extended displacement is a nice perk too :)