Are Warlocks supposed to be able to wear heavy armor?

[archlyte]

Warlocks can wear heavy armor and not suffer effective penalties to any of their inherent abilities. With very little tweaking a Warlock can be super effective without taking the proficiencies for heavy armor or the enhancements that reduce spell failure. Is this how the class was intended to work? If so why have sorceror or wizard when you can blast away as warlock with high PRR? Also why do other classes have to have the feat for the armor when this class doesn't?

[PermaBanned]

Also why do other classes have to have the feat for the armor when this class doesn't?Huh?

[Chai]

artificer also experiences this.

inherent abilities as well as spells listed as transfusions are not effected by spell failure.

Right or wrong, bug or wai, this has been part of the meta since 2011 and did not just enter the game with warlocks.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Warlocks can wear heavy armor and not suffer effective penalties to any of their inherent abilities. With very little tweaking a Warlock can be super effective without taking the proficiencies for heavy armor or the enhancements that reduce spell failure. Is this how the class was intended to work? If so why have sorceror or wizard when you can blast away as warlock with high PRR? Also why do other classes have to have the feat for the armor when this class doesn't?

Warlocks still get arcane spell failure in heavy armor, just like sorc and wizards. Not having proficiency means you don't get the full benefit of prr since you don't get the bab portion. You can do the same thing on a sorc or wizard tho, and even get lower asf with access to eldritch knight, which warlocks don't get.

Not sure what your point is...

[Maatogaeoth]

Also why do other classes have to have the feat for the armor when this class doesn't?

Anyone can wear any armor (unless race restricted, etc of course), with penalty if they aren't proficient.

The problem with Warlocks is that the penalty doesn't have any real effect on their ability to do their job.

What should happen is if you're not proficient with an armor type, you get no PRR/MRR benefits.

[Renvar]

Warlocks have 35% ASF when wearing heavy armor, same as other arcane casters. They will also get ASF on medium armor unless they have the enhancement in the ES tree that gives them Medium armor.

The only real difference is that the Warlock eldritch blast/aura affects are not impacted by ASF, and that is the primary source of DPS for the class. Spell casting is more of a secondary feature for them. They actually function pretty much the same as Bards. No ASF for light armor and an enhancement extends that to medium. ASF does not affect a bard's song abilities, but does affect their spell casting. So a swash/warchanter bard can melee and sing in heavy armor with no impact.

Keep in mind that armor proficiency does not affect ASF. Having heavy armor proficiency removes the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls and also adds 6+BAB to your PRR. So, if you are going to be a warlock or bard in heavy armor, it is a good idea to splash a class that gets Heavy Armor Proficency (Pally/Fighter/Cleric) or take the feat. Especially if you will be meleeing. But the PRR bonus alone makes the feat worthwhile.

To get rid of ASF you will need enhancements or gear (augments of spell agility for example).

[archlyte]

Ok so looks like it is working as intended. That was mainly what I wondered. Feels broken but whatever.

[Steve_Howe]

I think it bears repeating that for Warlocks, the Arcane Spell Failure (ASF) chance DOES apply to the Warlock's spells like Shield and Sleep. It does NOT affect any form of a Warlock's Eldritch Blast (ranged or aura).

[archlyte]

I think it bears repeating that for Warlocks, the Arcane Spell Failure (ASF) chance DOES apply to the Warlock's spells like Shield and Sleep. It does NOT affect any form of a Warlock's Eldritch Blast (ranged or aura).

Yeah but the eldritch blast is sufficient, the occasional failure to cast the spells is a minor inconvenience compared with the ability to don Heavy Armor with no prof and blast things to no end. The class should have had penalties to EB dmg for wearing non-proficient armor.

[CThruTheEgo]

Warlocks are so totally over-the-top overpowered whether they are wearing armor (light, medium, or heavy) or not. ASF not applying to eldritch blast is not what makes them overpowered lol.

[Chi_Ryu]

So, if you are going to be a warlock or bard in heavy armor, it is a good idea to splash a class that gets Heavy Armor Proficency (Pally/Fighter/Cleric) or take the feat. Especially if you will be meleeing. But the PRR bonus alone makes the feat worthwhile.

#1: You can't just take the feat, unless you are Warforged or Bladeforged; sadly, you'd need to take Light Armour Proficiency, then Medium Armour Proficiency, and then finally Heavy Armour Proficiency.

#2: If splashing 1 Paladin/Fighter/Cleric, then you lose the capstone, which for Enlightened Spirit gives you full BAB, instead of 3/4 BAB (and an extra +20% HP, +10 Melee Power, +20 Light, +2 Con & Cha, etc.). That's quite a sacrifice for a gain of 14 PRR*, and 10 MRR.

Also, it has been noted in the Known Issues that ASF shold affect Eldritch Blasts**, and that this is a bug - none of the enhancements decrease the ASF on shields or Heavy Armour. Something to consider.

As for wearing Heavy Armour without proficiency, that is only better than wearing medium armour up until level 12, for a pure Warlock, and has the cost of a much lower max dex bonus (reducing both Dex AC and Dodge).

* A 19/1 War/Pal or equivalent has a BAB of 15. That makes 51PRR and 30MRR, versus 37PRR and 20MRR with medium armour and the proficiency enhancement.
** "Arcane Spell Failure incorrectly fails to apply to basic attack forms of Eldritch Blast."

[Qhualor]

Yeah but the eldritch blast is sufficient, the occasional failure to cast the spells is a minor inconvenience compared with the ability to don Heavy Armor with no prof and blast things to no end. The class should have had penalties to EB dmg for wearing non-proficient armor.

For me, I had to roll something like a 25 or higher at level 15. It's not occasional failure. That's why when I did WF and BF warlock I just took light armor to avoid that.

[unbongwah]

From the Known Issues list (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/150534-Official-Known-Issues): "Arcane Spell Failure incorrectly fails to apply to basic attack forms of Eldritch Blast." This implies that ASF is supposed to affect EB, which makes sense since there's clearly a somatic component. Doesn't indicate if SLAs, Spirit Burst, etc. are also supposed to be affected by ASF, though.

[Pnumbra]

From the Known Issues list (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/150534-Official-Known-Issues): "Arcane Spell Failure incorrectly fails to apply to basic attack forms of Eldritch Blast." This implies that ASF is supposed to affect EB, which makes sense since there's clearly a somatic component. Doesn't indicate if SLAs, Spirit Burst, etc. are also supposed to be affected by ASF, though.

This is the best statement; a reminder that ASF should affect Warlocks.

Not sure why the Devs won't fix this in a hotfix.

[JOTMON]

Warlocks can wear heavy armor and not suffer effective penalties to any of their inherent abilities. With very little tweaking a Warlock can be super effective without taking the proficiencies for heavy armor or the enhancements that reduce spell failure. Is this how the class was intended to work? If so why have sorceror or wizard when you can blast away as warlock with high PRR? Also why do other classes have to have the feat for the armor when this class doesn't?

It was reported on the known issues when Warlock first came out.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/150534-Official-Known-Issues
Classes:
•Warlock:
•Arcane Spell Failure incorrectly fails to apply to basic attack forms of Eldritch Blast.

[Tlorrd]

This is the best statement; a reminder that ASF should affect Warlocks.

Not sure why the Devs won't fix this in a hotfix.

Just look at the devs thinking with AA. They're clearly considering those changes heavily with monkchers in mind even though from a base standpoint AA is a ranger or elf feature, but since they're (or at least were) so many monkchers, the devs are making enhancement decisions based on this multiclass build.

So it will be the same with this issue. Warlock heavy armor builds are the staple of many different warlocks/multiclass warlock builds. They won't change it any time soon.

[Pnumbra]

Just look at the devs thinking with AA. They're clearly considering those changes heavily with monkchers in mind even though from a base standpoint AA is a ranger or elf feature, but since they're (or at least were) so many monkchers, the devs are making enhancement decisions based on this multiclass build.

So it will be the same with this issue. Warlock heavy armor builds are the staple of many different warlocks/multiclass warlock builds. They won't change it any time soon.

I can't argue against your statement, but isn't this part of the power creep problem? As a Warlock, I am saddened that monkchers are dictating game culture. This game needs boundaries.

[redoubt]

Anyone can wear any armor (unless race restricted, etc of course), with penalty if they aren't proficient.

The problem with Warlocks is that the penalty doesn't have any real effect on their ability to do their job.

What should happen is if you're not proficient with an armor type, you get no PRR/MRR benefits.

Give -50% run speed for non-proficient... lol...

[draven1]

Give -50% run speed for non-proficient... lol...

Good idea!

[Tlorrd]

Give -50% run speed for non-proficient... lol...

Lol, but some warlocks float!

[dontmater]

I can't argue against your statement, but isn't this part of the power creep problem? As a Warlock, I am saddened that monkchers are dictating game culture. This game needs boundaries.

this makes me sad also... as it is we all know what should be done with monkchers. but then they would all cry and have to re-roll

[Deadlock]

Also why do other classes have to have the feat for the armor when this class doesn't?

Any class can wear heavy armour. It just has negative effects.

Also, if you want the extra PRR from heavy armour (6+BAB) then you need to be proficient.

[redoubt]

Lol, but some warlocks float!

Slap some heavy armor on them... they'll since just like my paladin!!!

Maybe that is another thing that can be used to make armor different. You can only "float" in light or no armor. Would apply to any of them. Wizard, rogue, warlock. If you cannot enter those stances in medium and heavy armor... hmmm... I've not looked at those stances give recently but...

[slarden]

Anyone can wear heavy armor, but warlock eldritch blast was intended to have an arcane spell failure chance and it doesn't. Since it's on the known issues list I assume it is something that will be addressed.

A warlock can get solid prr with medium armor and a tower shield that doesn't give arcane spell failure, so those builds will adapt. All that heavy armor really gives a warlock is shadow guardian 30/60 DRR - warlocks will lose that easy button or have arcane spell failure.

[Livmo]

Anyone can wear heavy armor, but warlock eldritch blast was intended to have an arcane spell failure chance and it doesn't. Since it's on the known issues list I assume it is something that will be addressed.

A warlock can get solid prr with medium armor and a tower shield that doesn't give arcane spell failure, so those builds will adapt. All that heavy armor really gives a warlock is shadow guardian 30/60 DRR - warlocks will lose that easy button or have arcane spell failure.

Of any future changes since it has been on the known bug list for a while now, I got the Epic Calvery Plate at L20 and L24 to T3 in the last Cove weekend. I slotted a blue sapphire of heave fortification into both them. They are BtA, which is great. I have several warlocks on that account and it was easy to bunny hop 2 warlocks, keeping one heroic and one epic and alternating their use of the armors, but now have 4 :/ Darn virtual crack game : ) ) Need to make another L20 and L24 T3 for the other two now.

BTW THANK YOU again DDO for Cove weekend to celebrate talk like a pirate! I had a great time and got my warlocks some new suits.

I can't wait for candy!!!

[Livmo]

Here is what I'm playing at the moment if you want a peek at what I'm wearing with a PDK/Warlock before L20 CC Calvery Plate:


http://i.imgur.com/Fj1XN5e.jpg

[mikep]

[QUOTE=Livmo;5701829]Here is what I'm playing at the moment if you want a peek at what I'm wearing with a PDK/Warlock before L20 CC Calvery Plate:




Planeforged shouldn't be wearable until L22, another bug.

[Livmo]

[QUOTE=Livmo;5701829]Here is what I'm playing at the moment if you want a peek at what I'm wearing with a PDK/Warlock before L20 CC Calvery Plate:




Planeforged shouldn't be wearable until L22, another bug.

Of course it's a bug and this is not directed at you at all, but I do want to point out and make clear a few things, and put ASF/warlock to rest (repeats over and over on the forums) for the time being till things change to how it ought to be. I see this as a teachable moment.

First, I have bug reported this myself several times and got the canned response. So I know DDO is aware of it regarding both planeforged and some others. However, its now become common place. You see these on the AH and Shard for sale all the time asking for stupid amounts of plat and shards. The Shard Exchange folks seem more savy and don't partake. If you run epics for a weekend like I do, you can rack up about 10 or 12 blanks with blue augment slots. It used to really **** me off to see people posting disjuncted blanks for 100k plat plus. After the last canned response I decided to not let it bother me anymore and embrace it. However, sometimes when I see some armors posted on the AH for oodles of plat I will post a bunch on the AH with a buy out of 1500 plat. Yeah I'm that guy that will dump on the AH and drive the prices down. Check your loot at the end of the day. They are everywhere. No need to pay some player to get over on you. I even give the blanks away at times and offer to make shards for players to craft on them for free. You don't need any crafting levels to assemble unbound shards and item blanks in the crafting hall.

Next, Warlocks do suffer Arcane Spell Failure (ASF) as you will see in the screenie below. The issue with Warlocks and ASF if specifically related to Eldrich Blast, and it's known issue as well, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/150534-Official-Known-Issues. This bug affects all armors that have ASF.

Why do I rock the plate as a Warlock? It's in the screenie. By starting an Iconic PDK/Warlock I got the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat auto-granted. That is NOT a bug. I'm legit with the armor proficiency. I crafted Greater Twilight on the armor to drive down the ASF from 35% to what you see in the screenshot. This is also legit.

Moreover, in the screenie you can see I suffer ASF with Evard's, and it's the same red ASF for Ray of Exaustion and Finger of Death on my hot bar.

I remain hopeful that the armor bug gets fixed if/when Cannith Crafting is ever updated, and that the Warlock ASF for Elddrich Blast is taken care of at some future point too.

Until change happens I'm going to enjoy, and not hate on others that play Warlocks. Don't hate the class and players, hate the game (sound familiar to anyone?) And if you hate the game that much, go play somewhere else. Some of the negativity here on the forums needs to go. It's counter productive. See, now I'm sucked into the forum vitriol as well :P I will make an effort to not pooop where I eat and sleep as well and take some of my own medicine.

http://i.imgur.com/tyxWRmf.jpg

[PermaBanned]

I see this as a teachable moment.Wow. Lol, I think you got "teachable moment" confused with "preachable moment" there ^^

I think I get what you're saying, which is in essence "enjoy bugs while they last." Warlocks having no ASF to Eldritch Blast (and iirc {but can't check in game atm} Spirit Burst/Blast) is right up there with 100% Doubleshot to every bolt from a repeater instead of 33% DS. Also, not needing proficiency to get the BAB portion of the PRR/MRR from armor is another friendly bug helping them out much like the highest tiers of loot gen armor not having their proper min level when made craftable.

[Enderoc]

[QUOTE=Livmo;5701829]Here is what I'm playing at the moment if you want a peek at what I'm wearing with a PDK/Warlock before L20 CC Calvery Plate:




Planeforged shouldn't be wearable until L22, another bug.
Not if you craft it....

[Livmo]

Wow. Lol, I think you got "teachable moment" confused with "preachable moment" there ^^

I think I get what you're saying, which is in essence "enjoy bugs while they last." Warlocks having no ASF to Eldritch Blast (and iirc {but can't check in game atm} Spirit Burst/Blast) is right up there with 100% Doubleshot to every bolt from a repeater instead of 33% DS. Also, not needing proficiency to get the BAB portion of the PRR/MRR from armor is another friendly bug helping them out much like the highest tiers of loot gen armor not having their proper min level when made craftable.

You got me. I was so high up on the soap box I got dizzy and fell down and didn't have my Feather Fall item on :))

Great summary, you said it better with allot less words. Life is too short, enjoy it while it lasts. It's only a game.

I need a nap :)

[Livmo]

[QUOTE=mikep;5702028]
Not if you craft it....

Allot of us crafters find this when we start crafting armors. I know I'm not the only one who has bug reported it multiple times. The new crafter goes, OMG, I found a bug. Get excited to bug report their first bug. Canned response and the bug is still there.

I'll admit it still bugs me a bit, but trying to enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[Pnumbra]

What is pushing this exploit is the Devs inaction to not just this bug, but many that have persisted for quite a long time. Seems players are counting on this behavior to be the status quo. As a Warlock, I wish they would fix this. Even if or when they do, a player can easily mitigate the ASF down to as little as 4% which is not signifiant. Other fixes should include, as others have posted, non-proficiency penalties that will not allow mrr/prr bonuses. This alone would stop the exploit (imo).

[slarden]

What is pushing this exploit is the Devs inaction to not just this bug, but many that have persisted for quite a long time. Seems players are counting on this behavior to be the status quo. As a Warlock, I wish they would fix this. Even if or when they do, a player can easily mitigate the ASF down to as little as 4% which is not signifiant. Other fixes should include, as others have posted, non-proficiency penalties that will not allow mrr/prr bonuses. This alone would stop the exploit (imo).

My concern is that the devs will nerf warlock in general instead of just fixing the favorable bugs. Step 1 should always be to fix the favorable bugs.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Planeforged shouldn't be wearable until L22, another bug.
That 4 extra AC is hardly game breaking.

[slarden]

Allot of us crafters find this when we start crafting armors. I know I'm not the only one who has bug reported it multiple times. The new crafter goes, OMG, I found a bug. Get excited to bug report their first bug. Canned response and the bug is still there.

I'll admit it still bugs me a bit, but trying to enjoy the ride while it lasts.

Yeah when crafting was relatively new I learned quickly that crafting on BTA gear got around crafted gear getting BTC. So yeah all my leveling gear was crafted on BTA gear and I still have several no min level bta weapons with festival icy burst and lacerating - those aren't crafted - but they are still taking advantage of the same benefit with winter festival crafting.

At one time I had +6 stat bta no min level rings for all stats, but those were fixed at some point.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Yeah when crafting was relatively new I learned quickly that crafting on BTA gear got around crafted gear getting BTC. So yeah all my leveling gear was crafted on BTA gear and I still have several no min level bta weapons with festival icy burst and lacerating - those aren't crafted - but they are still taking advantage of the same benefit with winter festival crafting.

At one time I had +6 stat bta no min level rings for all stats, but those were fixed at some point.

Those rings were fun. I had a Greater False Life ring, no ML, and a +13 disable device ring, no ML. *sigh*