A Comment on Ranger UI

[Emers-Lochingvyrr]

Heya folks! This may have been said somewhere before, so sry if it's a repeat, but haven't found anywhere on it yet.

I have to say, I am very pleased with the lovin' rangers are getting, and specifically ranged combat in general. I love ranged and have been a ranged build (bows specifically) across all my TR lives. Enhancement wise, I believe the last update was a move in the right direction.

Personally however, the biggest annoyance atm is a UI feature involved with switching arrows quickly. Specifically, arrows stored in quivers cannot be placed on a quickbar, so to switch types of arrows to something in quiver, a ranger has to take off currently equipped, pull the arrows out of the quiver (or have them stored at the top), re-equip, and start firing. I know many people only use arcane archer returning arrows nowadays, but as far as choosing the right arrow for the right opponent, I believe it would be useful for rangers to have an extra quickbar solely for what is in the quiver.

Another comment on arcane archer arrows, maybe it's not possible with the current summoning mechanic, but I wish I could have them permanently placed on my quickbar. Every time a ranger has to resummon them, he must replace them on his quickbar (yes, its a small nit picking pet peeve xD). It seems other arrows, permanent ones, reappear on the quickbar even after time spent in the quiver (tho they're unavailable for quickbar switching whilst in quiver). Could the AA arrows be treated as permanent arrows, and have the ability to summon permanent stacks of returning arrows so as to negate this? The Arti summoned arrows seem to work this way, even tho they decompose upon log out.

This all makes switching types of arrows a lot easier. Having the right arrow for the job is the difference of up to 30+ damage per arrow. while switching mid combat against a multitude of types of enemies can be very dangerous.

[BloodLilly2]

Heya folks! This may have been said somewhere before, so sry if it's a repeat, but haven't found anywhere on it yet.

I have to say, I am very pleased with the lovin' rangers are getting, and specifically ranged combat in general. I love ranged and have been a ranged build (bows specifically) across all my TR lives. Enhancement wise, I believe the last update was a move in the right direction.

Personally however, the biggest annoyance atm is a UI feature involved with switching arrows quickly. Specifically, arrows stored in quivers cannot be placed on a quickbar, so to switch types of arrows to something in quiver, a ranger has to take off currently equipped, pull the arrows out of the quiver (or have them stored at the top), re-equip, and start firing. I know many people only use arcane archer returning arrows nowadays, but as far as choosing the right arrow for the right opponent, I believe it would be useful for rangers to have an extra quickbar solely for what is in the quiver.

Another comment on arcane archer arrows, maybe it's not possible with the current summoning mechanic, but I wish I could have them permanently placed on my quickbar. Every time a ranger has to resummon them, he must replace them on his quickbar (yes, its a small nit picking pet peeve xD). It seems other arrows, permanent ones, reappear on the quickbar even after time spent in the quiver (tho they're unavailable for quickbar switching whilst in quiver). Could the AA arrows be treated as permanent arrows, and have the ability to summon permanent stacks of returning arrows so as to negate this? The Arti summoned arrows seem to work this way, even tho they decompose upon log out.

This all makes switching types of arrows a lot easier. Having the right arrow for the job is the difference of up to 30+ damage per arrow. while switching mid combat against a multitude of types of enemies can be very dangerous.


Having the hot bar for the Quiver would be an amazing idea. When I do play my ranger I usually only use Arcane Arrows because of the hassle of the quiver. Either using arrows you don't want to or wanting to use them during a fight and having to run around to properly equip them. I don't mind the arcane archer mechanic but that's most likely because I don't play a ranger based toon that often. Great ideas Emers :)

[Enderoc]

Yes a hotbar would be awesome, like a three of four slot toggle that decides what will arm next or when one is clicked it automatically arms that set.

[EllisDee37]

I haven't run a ranged life yet, but will be soon. I figured the idea was to use a separate quiver for each arrow type, and put the quivers on a hotbar for fast, easy switching. Then buy a bunch of those 1000-capacity House D quivers and you're good to go.

Does that not work?

[Emers-Lochingvyrr]

I haven't run a ranged life yet, but will be soon. I figured the idea was to use a separate quiver for each arrow type, and put the quivers on a hotbar for fast, easy switching. Then buy a bunch of those 1000-capacity House D quivers and you're good to go.

Does that not work?

Afraid not, clicking a quiver on a hotbar opens the quiver, rather than equipping it.

[Qhualor]

forgot about bringing this up as a good QoL fix for rangers. not that it would have mattered anyways.

[EllisDee37]

Afraid not, clicking a quiver on a hotbar opens the quiver, rather than equipping it.Quick testing in-game shows that you can put stacks of arrows loose in your inventory and hotbar the arrows directly to facilitate switching between them.

Unfortunately, arrows only stack to 100 in your inventory. As a simple, workable solution, maybe we could petition the devs to allow arrows to stack to 1000 in inventory.

[Emers-Lochingvyrr]

Quick testing in-game shows that you can put stacks of arrows loose in your inventory and hotbar the arrows directly to facilitate switching between them.

Unfortunately, arrows only stack to 100 in your inventory. As a simple, workable solution, maybe we could petition the devs to allow arrows to stack to 1000 in inventory.

And then if you have a stack of +X Y arrows in both your inventory and quiver, running out of the ones in your inventory reloads the like arrows from quiver. That said, it kinda just makes the quiver a glorified arrow bag rather than an archer's tool kit, every arrow for the right job readily on hand.

I was wondering about the stacks of 1000. It would definitely help out non AA archers, fo sho, but still can eat up a lot of inventory (I would love carrying around bane arrows more often, just too many types of monsters in some quests. Not so bad if you only switch between Holy/AA during a quest admittedly.)

[the_one_dwarfforged]

i agree, this is definitely a big issue for ranged characters.

if this could be updated properly with the aa pass, ddo might not seem hopeless.

[Augon]

YES!!!
The ability to select arrows from a tool bar would be great. because of this hassle, I don't even keep arrows. I dump them and just use my arcane arrows. IT would be nice to have a collection I can choose from.

This is also a big reason I see no value in buying a quiver. Why buy something that is useless in the midst of combat. My melees can quickly switch weapons. My archer can quickly switch bows but not arrows.

[RydeaNikkna]

... snip ...
Personally however, the biggest annoyance atm is a UI feature involved with switching arrows quickly.
...snip...



I just finished my artificer life, and I too wanted the right bolt for the right situation but could never get it to work quickly nor efficiently. I tried just letting the quiver manage the bolts, but more than one combat ran out of ammunition. I'm like what? the quiver shows full, oh those are arrows that were looted and autogathered in the quiver.

I ended up giving up and just using the conjured bolts. Which are returning but not 100% so I would conjure them, put them on the quickbar so I would have a visible count and know when I was about to run out. But all those gathered bolts that would have worked better just ended up gathering dust or sold.

Being able to quickbar stacks of ammunition in quivers would be a boon to the ranged types everywhere.

[EllisDee37]

I was wondering about the stacks of 1000. It would definitely help out non AA archers, fo sho, but still can eat up a lot of inventory (I would love carrying around bane arrows more often, just too many types of monsters in some quests. Not so bad if you only switch between Holy/AA during a quest admittedly.)My rationale for the suggestion was trying to find the most player-friendly solution with the least amount of dev work. Simply increasing the stack size in inventory from 100 to 1000 and doing nothing else would give the players flexibility and functionality while also requiring the least amount of coding. (As opposed to, say, changing quiver action when hotbarred, from opening it to equipping it. Also little work, but not as good for players because you wouldn't be able to see your ammo type on your ammo hotbar. It would just be 10 identical icons you'd have to memorize.)

I don't think inventory issues make it a dealbreaker. The devs might actually see that as a plus.

I also don't think making quivers obsolete would be an issue, since they don't actually do anything useful now. Who actually uses quivers how they were intended? For that matter, how, exactly, are they intended to be used? I'm trying to picture a dev playing as an archer and using a quiver, and I'm drawing a blank. How, exactly, do they think switching arrows is supposed to work?

For a more fully-featured approach, adding ammunition to weaponsets would be the ultimate fix. So one weaponset might be Silver Slinger + Undead Slaying arrows, for example. You get the idea.

[blerkington]

Hi,

The quiver issue is a good one to mention.

I gave up on using different arrows a long time ago on my ranger because worthwhile arrows didn't drop in useful numbers or stack in large enough quantities, but most especially because the UI makes it painful.

Some other QoL issues I'd like to see before the ranger pass is fully done include:

* Faster weapon swapping. Until I respecced into DWS for u28, swapping between melee weapons and a bow seemed worse than ever. The way AA secondary imbues are coded and melee power bonus recently added to the TWF line seem to have made switching more sticky than it used to be. But it's also delayed by the archery animation needing to complete first, and it would be very nice if it wasn't.

* A setting for cure spells which allows you to make them cast on self only. I'd be grateful even for something hidden away in the options, but what would be really nice is a setting which could be controlled by left clicking on the hotbar slots like metamagics are.

* Remove the rooting effect for slayer arrows. It can by bypassed by jumping when you activate it anyway. It's an obnoxious and unnecessary obstacle which just makes the enhancement annoying to use.

* A setting to disable goofy visual effects for killer, soul magic, etc. Maybe someone likes seeing that little infinity symbol appearing above their character's head again and again and again, but I sure don't. So rather than just taking them out, perhaps we could have a way to turn them off, so everyone can be happy.

(edit) * Increase the depth of the TWF hitbox. Attacking moving enemies with two weapons seems much more difficult than when using the SWF or THF styles. From memory, even unarmed TWF fighter seem to have a better reach.

Will add more if I think of them.

Thanks.

[Kawai]

I also don't think making quivers obsolete would be an issue, since they don't actually do anything useful now. Who actually uses quivers how they were intended? For that matter, how, exactly, are they intended to be used? I'm trying to picture a dev playing as an archer and using a quiver, and I'm drawing a blank.

http://i.imgur.com/zLgakxd.gif

[Eth]

I also don't think making quivers obsolete would be an issue, since they don't actually do anything useful now.
Well, they offer some passive effects and that's about it.
30% striding at level 1 is kind of nice. :D

[EllisDee37]

Well, they offer some passive effects and that's about it.
30% striding at level 1 is kind of nice. :DYep, that's what I mean. There are several quivers worth having for effects, but there are no quivers worth having for functionality. So completely ignoring quiver functionality in order to make it easy to swap ammo would be fine.

[Kawai]

I was wondering about the stacks of 1000. It would definitely help out non AA archers, fo sho, but still can eat up a lot of inventory (I would love carrying around bane arrows more often, just too many types of monsters in some quests. Not so bad if you only switch between Holy/AA during a quest admittedly.)
b careful of the weight, on certain builds. just say'n

[Eth]

Yep, that's what I mean. There are several quivers worth having for effects, but there are no quivers worth having for functionality. So completely ignoring quiver functionality in order to make it easy to swap ammo would be fine.

I actually used to use deneith arrows on hybrid builds with manyshot that couldn't afford AA arrows AP wise.
For that reason stack size on quivers actually mattered somewhat.

But since U23 you can carry 50000 arrows in a single inventory slot (flame arrow scrolls), so even that feature is pretty pointless now.

[Kawai]

I actually used to use deneith arrows on hybrid builds with manyshot that couldn't afford AA arrows AP wise.
For that reason stack size on quivers actually mattered somewhat.

But since U23 you can carry 50000 arrows in a single inventory slot (flame arrow scrolls), so even that feature is pretty pointless now.

b nice if flame arrows covered everything, wouldn't it?

i dun bother with Deneith anymore, but more than a few out there need them, Xoriats as well. but hey, enjoy those little flame arrows. lol

[Eth]

b nice if flame arrows covered everything, wouldn't it?

i dun bother with Deneith anymore, but more than a few out there need them, Xoriats as well. but hey, enjoy those little flame arrows. lol

It obviously doesn't cover everything, but it's good enough for something I only use every other quest to begin with.

[Kawai]

It obviously doesn't cover everything, but it's good enough for something I only use every other quest to begin with.

keyword being "I"
ty

[Eth]

keyword being "I"
ty

I actually used to use deneith arrows on hybrid builds with manyshot that couldn't afford AA arrows AP wise.
For that reason stack size on quivers actually mattered somewhat.

Yes, because I refered to very specific builds, not archers in general. Bolded the important part for you.

[Kawai]

Yes, because I refered to very specific builds, not archers in general. Bolded the important part for you.
yea, i read that.
still made no sense for the masses.
especially not too long ago.

cold iron
byeshk
adamantine
Silver
Silver Flame Ghost Touch
Silver Flame Lesser Undead
countless banes
Xoriats
returning specials

some people like them all.
some people could care less.

to b exact...
main could care less.
alts carry bits of whichever they need for various situations.

everyones diff.
& those that need diff types do appreciate their Quivers.

[Kawai]

I also don't think making quivers obsolete would be an issue, since they don't actually do anything useful now.

Well, they offer some passive effects and that's about it.
30% striding at level 1 is kind of nice. :D

ah, & bolded back at ya skippy.

[EllisDee37]

ah, & bolded back at ya skippy.Why am I being quoted? What are you talking about?

[Eth]

everyones diff.
& those that need diff types do appreciate their Quivers.

I don't know, but if you actually manage a bunch of different arrow types in your quiver, you are probably in the minority (but then I don't have "data", it's an assumption based on my own experience and people I play with and how they handle this issue).
For reasons as to why that would be, read the OP.

I carry whatever arrow allows me to shot arrows. I really couldn't care less what the arrow itself adds, if anything. If I need DR breaking that is covered elsewhere.

[Kawai]

I don't know, but if you actually manage a bunch of different arrow types in your quiver, you are probably in the minority (but then I don't have "data", it's an assumption based on my own experience and people I play with and how they handle this issue).
For reasons as to why that would be, read the OP.

I carry whatever arrow allows me to shot arrows. I really couldn't care less what the arrow itself adds, if anything. If I need DR breaking that is covered elsewhere.

yep
silver was needed primarily every day back then
most everything is obsolete for well geared toons now.
for others, like the OP u mention, he would like them fixed, not DELETED.
yw

[inspiredunease]

I don't know, but if you actually manage a bunch of different arrow types in your quiver, you are probably in the minority (but then I don't have "data", it's an assumption based on my own experience and people I play with and how they handle this issue).
For reasons as to why that would be, read the OP.

I carry whatever arrow allows me to shot arrows. I really couldn't care less what the arrow itself adds, if anything. If I need DR breaking that is covered elsewhere.

That's a bit elitist isn't it? DR breaking can be difficult for newer players, and the deneith bolts are an easy (and smart, it takes a bit of research but doesn't really have a barrier to entry) way around the problem. I have always enjoyed having access to that deneith quiver, and have always lamented the fact that you can't quickly pop out the arrows/bolts you want. I've got pretty adept at setting up quivers with arrows/bolts in the right order to pull them out quickly if I need to change types mid quest, but it would be much nicer not to have to. It's a simple quality of life fix, so I for one would really appreciate this change. Who knows, maybe it would get more people, even you(!) using more arrow types if this happened.

As already posted, an easier (given that we know it's definitely possible without code changes as it was done for conjured bolts etc) solution would be to simply allow all arrow/bolt types to stack to 1000. Then players could devote inventory space to it if they wished. Given the arcane archer pass coming up, I think this would be a really nice change to go in alongside.

[Eth]

yep
silver was needed primarily every day back then
most everything is obsolete for well geared toons now.
for others, like the OP u mention, he would like them fixed, not DELETED.
yw

I'd rather see them fixed aswell.

[Emers-Lochingvyrr]

Hi,

The quiver issue is a good one to mention.

I gave up on using different arrows a long time ago on my ranger because worthwhile arrows didn't drop in useful numbers or stack in large enough quantities, but most especially because the UI makes it painful.

Some other QoL issues I'd like to see before the ranger pass is fully done include:

* Faster weapon swapping. Until I respecced into DWS for u28, swapping between melee weapons and a bow seemed worse than ever. The way AA secondary imbues are coded and melee power bonus recently added to the TWF line seem to have made switching more sticky than it used to be. But it's also delayed by the archery animation needing to complete first, and it would be very nice if it wasn't.

* A setting for cure spells which allows you to make them cast on self only. I'd be grateful even for something hidden away in the options, but what would be really nice is a setting which could be controlled by left clicking on the hotbar slots like metamagics are.

* Remove the rooting effect for slayer arrows. It can by bypassed by jumping when you activate it anyway. It's an obnoxious and unnecessary obstacle which just makes the enhancement annoying to use.

* A setting to disable goofy visual effects for killer, soul magic, etc. Maybe someone likes seeing that little infinity symbol appearing above their character's head again and again and again, but I sure don't. So rather than just taking them out, perhaps we could have a way to turn them off, so everyone can be happy.

Will add more if I think of them.

Thanks.

There, but for the grace of the gods, go I...I've mentioned most of these to one of my PC friends a couple times xD

[Emers-Lochingvyrr]

b careful of the weight, on certain builds. just say'n

Especially with the recent update making the dex build a bit more popular (not saying str build isn't, but I have seen a few more dex based archers now that it's easy to get dex to damage)

*Takes shelter from the Dex-Str argument*

[Kawai]

Especially with the recent update making the dex build a bit more popular (not saying str build isn't, but I have seen a few more dex based archers now that it's easy to get dex to damage)

*Takes shelter from the Dex-Str argument*
sooo true
it's the one downside, which is rlly minimal.
being tripped... hehehe...
& ofc the weight issue can creep up.
but it's all simply bypassed with gear & or augments.

meanwhile, it's very nice ta dump ol Strength.
especially on stat intensive builds, looking @you Rogue variations.

plus, there r more benes than just dmg.
like a Skyhigh Reflex, moar Ac, etc

[Gremmlynn]

Quivers in DDO are just one of several things in the game that seemed to start out as good ideas, but not really practical (as far as the game code does) ideas that were implemented in a more or less broken state, rather than just left out as impracticable to implement. At least they work somewhat to feed the bow and work well to keep inventory free from vendor trash arrows/bolts (much like gem bags, but without a handy "sell ammo" button in the vendor UI).

That said, I do hope the OP's suggestion can be implemented, as that would also make component, wand, scroll, potion, etc., containers viable and free up acres up inventory space.

[blerkington]

There, but for the grace of the gods, go I...I've mentioned most of these to one of my PC friends a couple times xD

Hi,

Nice, thanks. I added another one about the small size of the TWF hitbox.

Good thread, keep it coming.

[SirValentine]

Unfortunately, arrows only stack to 100 in your inventory. As a simple, workable solution, maybe we could petition the devs to allow arrows to stack to 1000 in inventory.

Not to disagree, that would be a nice change, but then you'd have quivers that hold less than an inventory slot, making them even more useless. If we do that, could we also increase all quiver stack sizes by a factor of 5? So that the quivers that currently hold 200/stack could at least hold the same 1000/stack?