What's Up With Tomes?

[Ellihor]

So, I play a lot. Like many hours per day. And I only see a tome like once a month. Not only for me but, I really meant "see", that includes other people pulling. Since the first patch in u23 (almost doing a year) the tome drop rates are horrible.

Now let's talk about loot tables. I saw a +1 to +2 upgrade tome drop in EE VoN6 last week. I can't belive that's right. That means +1 base tomes are dropping in a level 25 loot table (22base + 2 epic elite + 1 guild bonus).

I SAID IT RIGHT, +1 BASE TOMES DROPPING IN LEVEL 25 TABLE.

Now the worse, yesterday (incredible I saw 2 tomes in a week OMG - but none went for me) I just saw a +4 to +5 upgrade tome drop in EE ToEE in the chest of the fire temple (that you get if you don't pay them 25k plat).

I CAN'T BELIVE A LEVEL 33 CHEST (30 + 2 EE + 1 guild) IS DROPPING +4 BASE TOMES.

Come on, this must be bugged. If it's not, change it. Change both the drop rates and the level of the tome you get.

[morkahn82]

Finding tomes ingame is not WAI. Tomes dropin ingame are just rare exceptional bugs, some code fragments that could not have been completely removed. But what they did is catching the exception, that if a new tome is generated it is immediately exchanged by a much weaker tome. Welcome to p2w. Keep servers runnin.

[legendkilleroll]

Yeh sucks for people like me who have no interest in buying them

But while they all available in store, they wont up rates in game I bet :(

[Saekee]

I will not buy tomes from the store so I rely on in-game finds (or AH...). Here, in the Gianthold wilderness, Brawnpits rewarded me handsomely about 4 months ago:

http://i.imgur.com/RemWtQr.jpg

[Livmo]

I will not buy tomes from the store so I rely on in-game finds (or AH...). Here, in the Gianthold wilderness, Brawnpits rewarded me handsomely about 4 months ago:

http://i.imgur.com/RemWtQr.jpg

The last tome I pulled was back in Jan. from the Wheloon slayer area, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453994-I-found-a-boon-in-Wheloon?p=5506835&viewfull=1#post5506835

I haven't seen a tome drop anywhere since then.

[Erdrique]

It has been quite some time since I have seen a tome from a chest or as a reward (not counting the heroic Gianthold Saga I recently completed). A fellow guildie also mentioned that it has been hard finding any tomes in game. I wondered if something was changed.

[Chai]

I used to get 1-2 tomes per TR like a year ago. Ive done 5 TRs this year, no tomes. While that alone could be the bad end of the luck spectrum, Im hearing more and more of this from other players as well.

[Coyopa]

I pulled a +3 to +4 upgrade Strength tome last night on my level 23 rogue in Haunted Halls. Rather excited about that. Not even sure who I'm going to put it on. My paladin-was-cleric has only +2 tomes on everything except Charisma. So, she can't use it yet. I think my rogue already has a +4 Strength tome. I'll have to look at my bard and see.

[Connman]

I think it is the luck spectrum. Last life, 2 weeks ago or so, I scored a +1 off of a WW rare. Then the next day I scored a +1-+2 out of Tear. This life I have scored a couple of skill tomes only. But I swear I rolled a 100 on the toon loot luck table when I rolled phin, you need named loot, just make sure I am in your group.

[MaeveTuohy]

Tome's used to drop for me five to six times a year. I remember a time when I could barely sell a +1 tome on the AH they were that common.

I have had one tome in the last year.

[Sarzor]

The last tome I pulled was a +5 unbound INT from EN MoD.

On the other hand, in EH DoJ, I pulled a +2 DEX upgrade tome (+1 - +2). I've seen +3s also in EE FoTP. Yay? Really makes me want to play these laggy hard resource-intensive raids. But thankfully I got that +5 once to keep me vaguely hopeful (but not really).

[Connman]

Just saw a +2 (dex i think) in HE GOP.
I got a chuckle out of it since I had just posted to this thread.

[Lauf]

I used to find tomes. not anymore though.

since I mostly play my main, soon enough he got decked out and did not need the ones I came across, so I started storing them away for when I have another toon I'd like to pimp up. got to a point I had a substantial amount amassed (just over 20).
that number hasn't changed in a looooooooooooooooooong time (at least 1-2 years)
so yea, tome drop rates most certainly got nerfed hard, and I mean HARD.

if it takes a year of serious gaming to land a tome, you're unlikely to be able to pimp up your toon without buying them at the store.

can't say that I blame them though... from what little I know, it seems to me tomes were always selling quite well, so I completely understand them pushing sales further by decreasing their drop rate.

[Angelic-council]

I used to get 1-2 tomes per TR like a year ago. Ive done 5 TRs this year, no tomes. While that alone could be the bad end of the luck spectrum, Im hearing more and more of this from other players as well.

Well, because it was adjusted. Same goes to other things, including SP potions.

[Apollos713]

I get a tome drop about once every few months. My favorite ones are the ones I've found from breakables. Even though they're lower level than I need, it's nice being able to give them to guildies.

[bartharok]

Sometimes months pass between tomes, but sometimes i may get several in a week.

Its random, see.

[cdbd3rd]

Well, because it was adjusted. Same goes to other things, including SP potions.

I hardly EVER pulled tomes, so I didn't notice any change - but now that you mention it, I haven't seen any Mnem pots in ages. Those used to be a steady supply of AH plat for me. :o :(

edit:
Hm.
Add Eberron Shards to the list of things I haven't seen drop in a while - and I'm fairly fanatical about breaking stuff & hitting collectible nodes.

[Apollos713]

I hardly EVER pulled tomes, so I didn't notice any change - but now that you mention it, I haven't seen any Mnem pots in ages. Those used to be a steady supply of AH plat for me. :o :(

edit:
Hm.
Add Eberron Shards to the list of things I haven't seen drop in a while - and I'm fairly fanatical about breaking stuff & hitting collectible nodes.

100% agree with you about Eberron Shards. I hadn't even thought about it until you said it.

[moomooprincess]

I probably pull a +1 tome once per month.

If you are asking for a +4 tome, well, that is probably tougher.

I did just roll a 100 on Silver Daily Dice and received a +2 to +3 Intelligence tome, the large style of book.

[Ellihor]

Finding tomes ingame is not WAI.

Where did you take this information from?

[Braegan]

Where did you take this information from?

I think that was sarcasm.

Anyways, I totally feel the drop rates are lowered on tomes.

I know some will dispute it and I don't care. Years of playing daily I can tell you drop rates have been increased and decreased a few times over the years. We are currently and have been for some time now playing in a decreased drop rate regarding tomes.

[arkonas]

The last tome I pulled was back in Jan. from the Wheloon slayer area, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453994-I-found-a-boon-in-Wheloon?p=5506835&viewfull=1#post5506835

I haven't seen a tome drop anywhere since then.

i do know they're dropping. did a heroic elite run of gh at level and my group saw a +2 con tome and a dex 2-3 tome. this was today.

[mightstriker]

This thread caught my eye because a guildie and I were just musing about the low, low, low drop rate of tomes. Amongst our six or so active mates, there has been one drop in the last two months, it was an EH quest, and it was a +4 to +5 upgrade tome. This involves a lot of loot pulls, with one guildie doing epic chest re-rolls pretty regularly.

Also commented on was the reduction in spell pots. Used to be a couple in a night of questing among guild mates, now it is a rarity. Really raises suspicion that the reduction is because of these items being lucrative sources of income in the DDO store, eh?

BTW, our guild is primarily on Ghallanda. I have not noticed the Eberron shard drops being lower, although for whatever reason I seem to be the only mate pulling them. I have seen many medium or small ones, very few large. But who really cares about large ones, right? :+)

I used to regularly do a circuit of rare runs in Meridia just because of the drop rates in tomes. One run I actually pulled three (yes, three!) +2 tomes out five rare chests. That was without a chest blesser - just phenomenal loot luck. 'Course that was three or four years ago now - since then the rate has dropped steadily.

The thing that frosts me lately is the number of useless tomes and xp pots that come from daily dice rolls. Even non-VIP guild mates are saying they have an excess of tomes they can not use, or xp pots they can not trade or sell. With these all being BTA, it is getting a little ridiculous. Yay! Another +2 to +3 upgrade to repair tome! I am grateful that there is a CHANCE to obtain a useable tome, but I have seen so many crappy ones I am jaded. If only they could be sold or traded via a vendor for something useful!

[FlaviusMaximus]

So, I play a lot. Like many hours per day. And I only see a tome like once a month. Not only for me but, I really meant "see", that includes other people pulling. Since the first patch in u23 (almost doing a year) the tome drop rates are horrible.

Now let's talk about loot tables. I saw a +1 to +2 upgrade tome drop in EE VoN6 last week. I can't belive that's right. That means +1 base tomes are dropping in a level 25 loot table (22base + 2 epic elite + 1 guild bonus).

I SAID IT RIGHT, +1 BASE TOMES DROPPING IN LEVEL 25 TABLE.

Now the worse, yesterday (incredible I saw 2 tomes in a week OMG - but none went for me) I just saw a +4 to +5 upgrade tome drop in EE ToEE in the chest of the fire temple (that you get if you don't pay them 25k plat).

I CAN'T BELIVE A LEVEL 33 CHEST (30 + 2 EE + 1 guild) IS DROPPING +4 BASE TOMES.

Come on, this must be bugged. If it's not, change it. Change both the drop rates and the level of the tome you get.

You are absolutely right, but I think this goes back a lot further than a year. Step one was make the drop rates miniscule. Step two was adding tome upgrades to the tables so that the few tomes that dropped would be mostly useless.

It's not going to change. This was no mistake.

Something like tome upgrades would not have hit live if we had a players council back then.

[morkahn82]

I think that was sarcasm.

This. I wanted to express my displeasure about the laughable droprates for tomes these days. Also about laughable low tomes drop at high levels, and spamming tomes drops with skills tomes of all kinds rendering stat tomes drops being even rarer than they already are. 95% of my tomes I get from daily free silver roll, which are +2 stat tomes at maximum or useless skill tomes.

[Henky]

I was very lucky with tomes pre-MoTU and post-MoTU. Got a few +5 tomes on High Road when level cap was 25.

A took a year off the game, I came back a month ago or so, and yes, the drop rate are insanely low now. That said, I looted last night a +5 Dex Tome on a EN Mark of Death run, not upgrade. Also I saw someone looting a +3 tome on High Road... it's sad because we farmed High Road for +5 tomes when level cap was 25.

[axel15810]

Like others said, years ago I pulled 1 or 2 from the wheloon end reward lists. But I'd echo the other comments in this thread. I never see them now, I don't remember seeing them at all in the past year or so.

[BoBoDaClown]

From the wiki:

Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun Source on 11-06-2012
The chance of tomes dropping is actually getting a significant increase.
Currently on Live, every item generated in a chest has a 1 in 434 chance of being an ability score tome. In Update 16, those odds are increased to 1 in 333. The new Upgrade tomes will be a sizable percentage of all ability tome drops- for example, when a +4 tome would drop, it will instead have a 25% chance of being a +4 to +5 upgrade tome.
Same goes for +3 tomes (which will drop in treasure chests of level 23-26): 25% of them will be a +3 to +4 upgrade tome.


I would be stunned it it were still 1/333 items.

Should be seeing them frequently at that rate.

Say, very conservatively, 10 chests a night - x6 people = 60 pulls. So, should see someone, on average, pull a tome once a week. That clearly does not happen.

It doesn't even say each chest, it says 'every item'. Maybe I have misunderstood something, but it seems like there has been a massive nerf.

Note, I don't recall ever get tomes at the rate the above chances would suggest, but it is hard remembering drop rates from 3 years ago.

[Flavilandile]

Basically, when they introduced upgrade tomes the result Tomes in the loot tables got split : 33% Plain tome, 66% Upgrade Tome.

Then they introduced skill tomes, that split the table further : 40ish Stat Tome, 60 Skill Tome...

And you have to take into account the Tomes of Fate, as they are probably in the same table...

Add to that the fact that more stat tomes gradient are available than it used to : from +1 to +6

and you end up with the effect that plain +2 to +6 stat tomes are basically gone, as most of the time you're going to loot a plain +1 tome or an upgrade tome ( when you're not pulling an *gasps* upgrade skill tome )

It's also a good commercial move, since if you want to use that nice upgrade tome you just looted, you can buy the initial bonus from the store...

[slarden]

Tomes have always been rare, but the biggest problem is that they no longer appear on 20th reward lists for new raids. That used to be the guaranteed way to get a tome.

[Robai]

While drop rates of items almost never changes (the exception is U24 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-24-release-notes)) the drop rate of tomes changes often (at least used to change often).
It's not just luck, I believe Devs do some silent events (or change their mind) for tomes drop rates (often in new packs, sometimes during weekends or other events).

It could be some bugs too, but since Devs don't reveal the exact drop rates then it's impossible to track such bugs by players.

Since we can get +5 tomes from 5K favor I really doubt we'll get such silent events for tomes (but if Devs see a lot of tears on the forums then maybe we'll have such events again).

As for major pots, they still drop in Reaver's Fate special loot table (it's rare, but it has by far higher drop rate than anywhere else, at least in my experience).
Random loot was expanded (I think several times, starting with ghostbanning) and that's why we have a lot less chance for sp pots to appear in chests (that affects tome drop rates too).

[Urjak]

Well on one hand tomes really don't seem to drop anymore on the other hand they don't sell on the ah either. During spring I tried selling two +5 tomes but no dice, eventually I was too bored of putting them up and up again and just left them rotting in my mailbox until the mails vanished, so yeah. Maybe tomes don't drop anymore because noone actually needs them anymore (as in already has all they want?) ;)

[Urjak]

This thread caught my eye because a guildie and I were just musing about the low, low, low drop rate of tomes. Amongst our six or so active mates, there has been one drop in the last two months, it was an EH quest, and it was a +4 to +5 upgrade tome. This involves a lot of loot pulls, with one guildie doing epic chest re-rolls pretty regularly.

Also commented on was the reduction in spell pots. Used to be a couple in a night of questing among guild mates, now it is a rarity. Really raises suspicion that the reduction is because of these items being lucrative sources of income in the DDO store, eh?

BTW, our guild is primarily on Ghallanda. I have not noticed the Eberron shard drops being lower, although for whatever reason I seem to be the only mate pulling them. I have seen many medium or small ones, very few large. But who really cares about large ones, right? :+)

I used to regularly do a circuit of rare runs in Meridia just because of the drop rates in tomes. One run I actually pulled three (yes, three!) +2 tomes out five rare chests. That was without a chest blesser - just phenomenal loot luck. 'Course that was three or four years ago now - since then the rate has dropped steadily.

The thing that frosts me lately is the number of useless tomes and xp pots that come from daily dice rolls. Even non-VIP guild mates are saying they have an excess of tomes they can not use, or xp pots they can not trade or sell. With these all being BTA, it is getting a little ridiculous. Yay! Another +2 to +3 upgrade to repair tome! I am grateful that there is a CHANCE to obtain a useable tome, but I have seen so many crappy ones I am jaded. If only they could be sold or traded via a vendor for something useful!

Yeah, that's the imo worst about update tomes and BTA tomes - can't even break them down into crafting materials like one can do with unbound plain tomes -.-

[Taskmage]

Yes, drop rates for tomes were reduced some time ago, i think around the time when remnants where added.

A guildy and myself regularily run together, we did about 15 heroic lifes this year, always running elite; total tome count during that time (on average around 3 hours per day) is 3. Highest tome we got was +2 ugrade. Before our break (when max level was 20 and later 25) we didn't even have enough toons to use all +2 tomes. And we have a lot of toons.

However, discussing this is pointless. The only answer you will get from the officials will be "nothing was changed". They might even add "we checked that". Problem is, that answer is useless and probably wong, since they basically have no clue what goes on behind the scenes (no offense...the game's code base is just to messed up, to many devs that are no longer available worked on it).

And, given the low drop rates, we can't prove anything so nothing will happen.

[cdbd3rd]

Well on one hand tomes really don't seem to drop anymore on the other hand they don't sell on the ah either. During spring I tried selling two +5 tomes but no dice, eventually I was too bored of putting them up and up again and just left them rotting in my mailbox until the mails vanished, ...

Just working with info from your post here, it sounds much like you probably had your tomes way over-priced.

[Urjak]

Just working with info from your post here, it sounds much like you probably had your tomes way over-priced.

As always I priced them just below what others were asking. But yeah, kinda stopped bothering with selling stuff - if I need more astral shards I just buy them off the DDO Store. And items - I either keep them on one of my dozen mules or destroy them like I did with the +5 tomes.

[Sarzor]

As always I priced them just below what others were asking. But yeah, kinda stopped bothering with selling stuff - if I need more astral shards I just buy them off the DDO Store. And items - I either keep them on one of my dozen mules or destroy them like I did with the +5 tomes.

So, you trashed them instead of selling them just a bit lower? I call shenanigans. If something doesn't sell for 1000 shards, and you want to sell it, then you don't just trash it, you sell it for a price someone will buy. Hell, dump it for 50 shards and I guarantee it'll be gone in 3 days.

Either way on the thread topic, I pulled a minor mnemonic potion yesterday, and realized I couldn't remember the last time I'd pulled anything below a major, and even there during the course of a TR from 1-28 I see maybe 2-3 of them at most. Didn't realize just how hard they'd been nerfed.

[Blastyswa]

I tend to skip (trash) chests myself because its not worth it to me. I get some guild renown, but my guild is largely solo players and we have 95% of the amenities anyways (Guild level 124) so not too worried about that. Tomes drop approximately 1 in 1000 chests that I've observed. And random gen loot isn't as useful as named loot and crafted gear. Unless store drop rates get raised at some point (Tomes don't matter to me anymore, I got enough favor TP for that a while back) then I personally will continue this trend.

[mightstriker]

I tend to skip (trash) chests myself because its not worth it to me. I get some guild renown, but my guild is largely solo players and we have 95% of the amenities anyways (Guild level 124) so not too worried about that. Tomes drop approximately 1 in 1000 chests that I've observed. And random gen loot isn't as useful as named loot and crafted gear. Unless store drop rates get raised at some point (Tomes don't matter to me anymore, I got enough favor TP for that a while back) then I personally will continue this trend.


Your guild is generous. Our guild leader would make you fill out a 301-2C form for EACH chest you did not loot. Not filling out the 301-2C form? A million plat for each transgression. Gee, you have it easy!!

[Gratch]

Necro'ing the thread since I haven't seen a tome drop in random loot or rewards in the last year of playing now. Not playing a whole lot but at least a few heroic and epic lives. Haven't seen tomes drop for anyone I've been grouping with either. AH -> tomes is basically empty on Ghallanda. I'd expect to see more than historically as at least one person in the last life has been running a MAKE_CHEST_BLUE_LIGHT elixir for in theory better rolls 100% of the time. We see lots of blue items... but no tomes.

Are tomes now for all intents and purposes TP store only or is my static group just insanely unlucky? Though I guess you can get +3 skill tomes from saga rewards or 20th raid reward tomes. But the random ones seem to have disappeared.

Remnants entered the game... tomes left? **** you remnants! **** you to Shavarath (Demon Side).

[AnEvenNewerNoob]

Just a couple weeks ago I pulled a +5 wisdom (Btc On my BARBARIAN! ARGH!) on a EE Citw.
That and one +4 to +5 wisdom upgrade tome (EN wiz king) are literally the only 2 I've pulled since I came back and started playing again in September.

So 2 tomes in 10 months of playing since I came back.

Both completely useless to me! lol

[Kylstrem]

About 3 months ago I pulled a +1 INT tome in the rare chest for Garunt in Cerulean Hills.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Well in my DDO journeys lately I have played a Ranger from L1 to L30, a Mechanic from L1 to L30, an Assassin from L1 to L30, a Vampire Warlock from L15 to L24, a melee Warlock from L15 to L30 and a pure Warlock from L1 to L24. I have not got a single tome on any of these characters. From my perspective tomes do not drop in the game.

[SiliconScout]

Other than favour I haven't see a tome in at least a year and a half .. probably longer. I seriously literally cannot reminder the last time that happened.

[Livmo]

Well in my DDO journeys lately I have played a Ranger from L1 to L30, a Mechanic from L1 to L30, an Assassin from L1 to L30, a Vampire Warlock from L15 to L24, a melee Warlock from L15 to L30 and a pure Warlock from L1 to L24. I have not got a single tome on any of these characters. From my perspective tomes do not drop in the game.

I pulled a tome in Epic Shroud on 06/26/2016. The last time I pulled a tome was here, https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453994-I-found-a-boon-in-Wheloon?p=5506835&viewfull=1#post5506835

Been along drought for me, 12/31/2015 to 06/26/2016, and I play allot.

http://i.imgur.com/jlejttc.jpg

[VinceWhirlwind]

What about Portable Holes?
I don't think I've had one of those all year so far.

I think I've found a tome in loot about once every two months this year.

Spell point potions seem to be much, much rarer than they used to be.

[Soleran100]

I picked up an int +3 to +4 tome the other night in epic spies on normal from breaking a crate, go figure.

[Eth]

Tomes seem to be really rare now. Not even seeing many skill tomes anymore.

On the other hand I finally pulled a +7 tome from ToEE couple weeks ago. My temple cultist kills per monster manual are over 20000. Go figure.

[KomradKillMachine]

I pulled a +7 tome from DDO store. My temple cultist kills per monster manual are over 0. Shenannigans!

[Natashaelle]

Tomes have always had a low drop rate, but at least they have now started dropping again -- though the pot drop rate is still far too low. Better than never, but meh ...

Getting about 1 Tome drop monthly ATM or maybe slightly higher, last one was an unbound +1 CON tome in some harbour quest at level.

[Coyopa]

Just a couple weeks ago I pulled a +5 wisdom (Btc On my BARBARIAN! ARGH!) on a EE Citw.
That and one +4 to +5 wisdom upgrade tome (EN wiz king) are literally the only 2 I've pulled since I came back and started playing again in September.

So 2 tomes in 10 months of playing since I came back.

Both completely useless to me! lol

Well, at least with the +5 BTC tome you'll have marginally better Will saves on your barbarian. And if you ever decide to be an AA, a cleric, or favored soul, that'll give you a leg up there, too.

[morkahn82]

Before 2012 I got my tomes from quest reward lists, ingame drops and from plat ah. Now they are nearly a myth.

Not a big problem with +15 stat items :D

[RistoffDervish]

What about Portable Holes?
I don't think I've had one of those all year so far.

I think I've found a tome in loot about once every two months this year.

Spell point potions seem to be much, much rarer than they used to be.

I just pulled a portable hole in Ghola Fan 2 days ago as the end reward. Then I pulled the raise dead Ring of the Ancestors in Slavers...it was a lucky run. :)

[Kylstrem]

What about Portable Holes?
I don't think I've had one of those all year so far.

I think I've found a tome in loot about once every two months this year.

Spell point potions seem to be much, much rarer than they used to be.

Actually I've been getting more portable holes than normal in the last 2 months. I got about 6 in a 3 week period.

[VinceWhirlwind]

Actually I've been getting more portable holes than normal in the last 2 months. I got about 6 in a 3 week period.

You must be getting all mine then....

My favourite Portable Hole drop was out of a breakable in Caverns of Korromar about a year ago. I thought about screenshotting it for about a nanosecond, and then quickly picked it up before anything could go wrong....

In several years of playing, I once scored a Large Collectable Bag from an end-chest which remains my best drop.