Tyranny of Dragons

[DevilYouKnow]

Any news about the Thunderholme storyline yet ? Especially Tiamat.

Any chance that it will be continued ? Or is that now just a relic of the past, never to be introduced ?

Tyranny of Dragons (Lore)

For years, the evil Cult of the Dragon has devoted itself to creating undead dragons in a vain attempt to fulfill an ancient prophecy. However, the cultists were misguided. They misunderstood. But now, under new leadership, the cult believes that the prophecy does not speak of undead dragons, but of a dragon empire that’s been extinct for 25,000 years. Tiamat, the queen of evil dragons, has languished in the Nine Hells for millennia. The cult believes that the time of her return is at hand.
The cult has a new face and a new mission. It seeks to free Tiamat from the Nine Hells and bring her into the Forgotten Realms.
Tyranny of Dragons is a D&D event celebrating the 40th anniversary of D&D organized by Wizards of the Coast for the summer of 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelstar

Source :

(...) the events of Fire on Thunder Peak and Temple of the Deathwyrm serve as a prequel to Tyranny of Dragons; the events in those raids led to changes in the Cult of the Dragon, which ultimately lead to the upcoming events in the pen-and-paper Tyranny of Dragons!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb7nLoCTnl0

[UurlockYgmeov]

maybe summer '16???

the Dev's have said that some resources have been spent on ToD (not ToD but ToD ;0 ) like monster art etc, and so it still is out there.

IMHO would love it for the 2nd post level 30 raid... the one where with a full raid party of ubersupermax wipe in .03 seconds. :D .... on casual....

[UurlockYgmeov]

oh - and if they do do Tiamat - don't do the cheesy DDO for Dummies approach - only the top half.... I want full on dragon mode - like Fire on Peak.... etc.

[Lonnbeimnech]

oh - and if they do do Tiamat - don't do the cheesy DDO for Dummies approach - only the top half.... I want full on dragon mode - like Fire on Peak.... etc.

160 foot tall dragon... Would need a ranged weapon just to hit her ankles.

[PentegarnDarras]

Those look like MotU spider cult masks...

[DevilYouKnow]

Those look like MotU spider cult masks...

No. See here, for more info http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dragon_Masque

[bartharok]

160 foot tall dragon... Would need a ranged weapon just to hit her ankles.

Or dwarves with picks mining their way from the toes towards the heart.

[PermaBanned]

Or dwarves with picks mining their way from the toes towards the heart.
5 people or teams of 2 (or some solos/some teams, w/e) get swallowed Purple Worm style and have to hack their way through her gullet (/meet objectives?) to meet up and take out the heart(s? Does Tiamat have just one for all that bulk?) while the rest do damage (/meet objectives ?) from the outside...

[PermaBanned]

Last word I recall seeing about this was that the ToD story was supposed to continue with "It came from the desert" and the Anauroch setting. This was abandoned/put on hold long term in favor of the ENecro and EShavrath/Vale stuff. I would guess that it's their plan to return to this for the 2016 "new End Game" era of level cap 30.

(That, or try to put it off until late summer 2016 and sell it as their next Expansion)

[bartharok]

5 people or teams of 2 (or some solos/some teams, w/e) get swallowed Purple Worm style and have to hack their way through her gullet (/meet objectives?) to meet up and take out the heart(s? Does Tiamat have just one for all that bulk?) while the rest do damage (/meet objectives ?) from the outside...

Sounds icky but interesting

[Deadlock]

I thought Mask of Deception was our only participation in that specific storyline?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see more, but Wizards have since moved onto Temple of Elemental Evil and are now lining up the Rage of Demons storyline.

[dunklezhan]

I did not read the statement about it being a 'prequel to Tyranny of Dragons' meaning anything other than being a prequel to all the stuff the PnP game was doing. I.e. 'DDOs part in Tryanny of Dargons is we've been allowed to do a prequel bit because really the Mothergame wants to push Neverwinter Online instead' (which by the way got a huge world event).

This isn't Turbine not doing enough, its the mothergame sidelining us again.

[DevilYouKnow]

I doubt there will be a continuation of the storyline. For now, we can only hope.

Neverwinter already has this feature.

I hate how wizards of the coast does not pay any attention to ddo.

I really want ddo to be much more than the curent graveyard it is.

The game isn't well known among the people, due to the lack of advertisments mostly.

When i ask someone about ddo, they promptly think what the hell i am talking about.

It is such a shame, really.

[Steve_Howe]

I doubt there will be a continuation of the storyline. For now, we can only hope.

Neverwinter already has this feature.

I hate how wizards of the coast does not pay any attention to ddo.

WotC doesn't pay attention to Turbine & DDO?

I wonder why that is...

[Lonnbeimnech]

WotC doesn't pay attention to Turbine & DDO?

I wonder why that is...

I blame Atari.

[bartharok]

WotC doesn't pay attention to Turbine & DDO?

I wonder why that is...

They have a new shiny

[Lonnbeimnech]

To do it justice it would need to be an expansion the size of MotU.

1. Causing problems for the cult of the dragon.
2. Causing problems for the dragons
3. Traveling to the first layer of hell to face her 3 champions Malphas, Amduscias, and Goap.
4. Then finally going up against her in the pre-raid, where we have to fight her in the form of a human sorceress forcing her to retreat to Avernus.
5. Then she gets serious, and turns into a huge dragon that we defeat with the help of some artifact somewhere inside the labyrinth of treasure piles while fighting off dragons and demons as she appears fights briefly and retreats (she is known to only fight when she is sure of victory). Rather than an auto attack + mass heal spam bs. Facing her directly should be auto-wipe even on norm.

And all we manage to do is banish her for 100 years, she is a greater deity after all...

[Uska]

To do it justice it would need to be an expansion the size of MotU.

1. Causing problems for the cult of the dragon.
2. Causing problems for the dragons
3. Traveling to the first layer of hell to face her 3 champions Malphas, Amduscias, and Goap.
4. Then finally going up against her in the pre-raid, where we have to fight her in the form of a human sorceress forcing her to retreat to Avernus.
5. Then she gets serious, and turns into a huge dragon that we defeat with the help of some artifact somewhere inside the labyrinth of treasure piles while fighting off dragons and demons as she appears fights briefly and retreats (she is known to only fight when she is sure of victory). Rather than an auto attack + mass heal spam bs. Facing her directly should be auto-wipe even on norm.

And all we manage to do is banish her for 100 years, she is a greater deity after all...



They would have to do a lot of work to get anyone to buy a paid expansion again the strikes such has against it for me are.

1. Shadowfell
2. Looks like FR base
3. from they way you describe it epic only

Nothing I would spring for unless it had a race or class I really wanted but the only races and classes I want would be Eberron ones.

[davmuzl]

I wish players were less worried about story lines they already know and more about what the stuff actually looks like in game. Usually games don't live up to the expectations anyway. What's great about DDO is not so much that you can visit the forgotten realms or eberron, but that you can customize your own character like in DnD.
I personally don't really care about what the storyline is called and more about how fun it is to play.
Not saying I don't like tyranny of dragons, but if we get something awesome in epic vale that's fine imo.

[AbyssalMage]

To do it justice it would need to be an expansion the size of MotU.
5. Then she gets serious, and turns into a huge dragon that we defeat with the help of some artifact somewhere inside the labyrinth of treasure piles while fighting off dragons and demons as she appears fights briefly and retreats (she is known to only fight when she is sure of victory). Rather than an auto attack + mass heal spam bs. Facing her directly should be auto-wipe even on norm.

And all we manage to do is banish her for 100 years, she is a greater deity after all...
Eliminster is an "artifact" and he's notorious for showing up to take the credit while everyone else does the work. Or maybe Anna, seeings as Eliminster is training her, although she is only 20'ish so hardly an "artifact" yet she does contain the "Thread of the Weave" in DDO.

[PermaBanned]

Ok, I know "Dragonborn" is a name already in Forgotten Realms use but I think it sounds cooler than "Half-Dragon" so I used it here anyway...


Nothing I would spring for unless it had a race or class...
Introducing 10 all new Iconic Heros: the Dragonborn! {conveniently that's how many classes are not currently attatched to Iconics} They come in two bundles: The Chromatic (Red, Blue, Green, Black, White) and the Metalic (Gold, Silver, Brass, Bonze, Copper).

• Chromatic Iconic Pastlives are +3% Elemental Absorption (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Poison Absorption from Green) for the Passive PLs; and +10 Elemental Spellpower (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Force from Green) for the Active/Stance PLs.

• Metallic Iconic Pastlives are +1 Melee/Ranged-power (3x stacking, same for all types) for the Passive PLs; and the Active/Stance PLs are as follows (all stacking 3x):
•• Gold - 3% SP cost reduction.
•• Silver - +1 Loot Boost.
•• Brass - +10 Sonic Spellpower
•• Bronze - 3% Fortification Bypass
•• Copper - Hirelings, Pets & Summons gain 10% Incorporeal.

Introducing a new Feat: Iconic Completionist! "You've now not only won DDO, but mastered it! After collecting at least one Pastlife from each of the Iconic Heros, you obtain the Iconic Completionist Feat (auto granted at character generation) and you now get +1 Enhancement Point!" (3x stacking. Taking a Capstone from one Tree now locks out the Capstones in other Trees, just as Tier 5 Enhancements do.)

Pre-Order the Deluxe Collector's Eddition to get both Iconic Dragonborn bundles and the exclusive Dragonborn Mirror of Glamoring that will create a cosmetic replica of any armor (standard restrictions apply) and add wings!.

[Uska]

Ok, I know "Dragonborn" is a name already in Forgotten Realms use but I think it sounds cooler than "Half-Dragon" so I used it here anyway...


Introducing 10 all new Iconic Heros: the Dragonborn! {conveniently that's how many classes are not currently attatched to Iconics} They come in two bundles: The Chromatic (Red, Blue, Green, Black, White) and the Metalic (Gold, Silver, Brass, Bonze, Copper).

• Chromatic Iconic Pastlives are +3% Elemental Absorption (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Poison Absorption from Green) for the Passive PLs; and +10 Elemental Spellpower (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Force from Green) for the Active/Stance PLs.

• Metallic Iconic Pastlives are +1 Melee/Ranged-power (3x stacking, same for all types) for the Passive PLs; and the Active/Stance PLs are as follows (all stacking 3x):
•• Gold - 3% SP cost reduction.
•• Silver - +1 Loot Boost.
•• Brass - +10 Sonic Spellpower
•• Bronze - 3% Fortification Bypass
•• Copper - Hirelings, Pets & Summons gain 10% Incorporeal.

Introducing a new Feat: Iconic Completionist! "You've now not only won DDO, but mastered it! After collecting at least one Pastlife from each of the Iconic Heros, you obtain the Iconic Completionist Feat (auto granted at character generation) and you now get +1 Enhancement Point!" (3x stacking. Taking a Capstone from one Tree now locks out the Capstones in other Trees, just as Tier 5 Enhancements do.)

Pre-Order the Deluxe Collector's Eddition to get both Iconic Dragonborn bundles and the exclusive Dragonborn Mirror of Glamoring that will create a cosmetic replica of any armor (standard restrictions apply) and add wings!.


Rather the game shut down first

[PermaBanned]

Rather the game shut down first
Yeah, sorry Uska - but knowing you're "love" of the 'Realms is why I used your quote for the reply, it just enriched the satire that little bit more ;) I'd hope if they ever did offer something like that, it would just be as a last ditch money-grab before heading into maintenance mode ^^

[Uska]

Yeah, sorry Uska - but knowing you're "love" of the 'Realms is why I used your quote for the reply, it just enriched the satire that little bit more ;) I'd hope if they ever did offer something like that, it would just be as a last ditch money-grab before heading into maintenance mode ^^

Ok make me a sandwich as well and what kind of beer you got there?

[DevilYouKnow]

Rather the game shut down first

We get it, you hate the realms. Now let the rest of us have our fun. Thank You and Goodbye.

And here i thought that this kind of thing is clearly against the community guidelines...

Reason: 8. Provoking, Trolling, and “baiting”: Making posts to provoke conflict or incite, bait, or mock others who disagree with you are not permitted.

[bartharok]

We get it, you hate the realms. Now let the rest of us have our fun. Thank You and Goodbye.

And here i thought that this kind of thing is clearly against the community guidelines...

Reason: 8. Provoking, Trolling, and “baiting”: Making posts to provoke conflict or incite, bait, or mock others who disagree with you are not permitted.

Not against the guidelines, since uska really does hate the realms.

[DevilYouKnow]

Not against the guidelines, since uska really does hate the realms.

Because uska is a special snowflake ^^.

Btw, he does not need to repeat the same thing over and over again in every single topic.

I am pretty sure that by know everyone does understand it pretty clearly that he hates the realms.



Though, i am glad that the devs. won't pay any attention to such nonsense.

[Steve_Howe]

Because uska is a special somethingorother ^^.

Btw, he does not need to repeat the same thing over and over again in every single topic.

I am pretty sure that by know everyone does understand it pretty clearly that he hates the realms.



Though, i am glad that the devs. won't pay any attention to such nonsense.

Yup.

[Uska]

We get it, you hate the realms. Now let the rest of us have our fun. Thank You and Goodbye.

And here i thought that this kind of thing is clearly against the community guidelines...

Reason: 8. Provoking, Trolling, and “baiting”: Making posts to provoke conflict or incite, bait, or mock others who disagree with you are not permitted.

It was a new suggestioni and I can post my dislike of it and it not just it about being realms its about adding a dragonboring type race and that is what I was talking about having the game shut down first.

I dont like realms content and can ignore it as I do for the most part

Dont jump down my throat before you know what I am talking about and in this case it was about the draconic race.

as to the guidlines I am not the one violatiing them YOU ARE calling me a snowflake and other things so if the mods look in here I hope they see that as well

[DevilYouKnow]

It was a new suggestioni and I can post my dislike of it and it not just it about being realms its about adding a dragonboring type race and that is what I was talking about having the game shut down first.

I dont like realms content and can ignore it as I do for the most part

Dont jump down my throat before you know what I am talking about and in this case it was about the draconic race.

as to the guidlines I am not the one violatiing them YOU ARE calling me a snowflake and other things so if the mods look in here I hope they see that as well

Calling someone a snowflake is against the guidlines...:rolleyes: ?

[DevilYouKnow]

Lets get back to the topic.

[PermaBanned]

Lets get back to the topic.
Not sure how feasible that is, since the Devs haven't said squat since they dropped the story arch after Thunderholm. But if all you're looking for is a combination of rumor mongering and "I want/hope it's..." counterpointed with some "...would suck, but here's how I think it would be cool..." then by all means, continue ;)

[DevilYouKnow]

Would love the same insta death breath for each dragon head, like the one they used in defiler of the just for the named purple worm in the end fight.

Whoever it was, great job on that !

The Age of the Dragons is at hand :D.


http://i.imgur.com/bMTYOWu.jpg

[Steve_Howe]

The Age of the Dragons is at hand :D.

Not in DDO, apparently.

[Uska]

Calling someone a snowflake is against the guidlines...:rolleyes: ?

Name calling of any kind

[Uska]

Would love the same insta death breath for each dragon head, like the one they used in defiler of the just for the named purple worm in the end fight.

Whoever it was, great job on that !

The Age of the Dragons is at hand :D.


http://i.imgur.com/bMTYOWu.jpg

More dragons are cool but not draconian types or epic only

[Steve_Howe]

Name calling of any kind

So if I decided to call you "Superman," that would be a forum violation? I don't think so.

If the name were derogatory (that means "bad"), then that would be a violation.

Not sure if "snowflake" is derogatory (bad), complimentary (good), or indifferent (neutral).

Why don't you file a report with Cordovan and see?

[DevilYouKnow]

Uska can you please stop derailing this topic ? I am asking for suggestions, not how much you hate the realms.

[Lonnbeimnech]

More dragons are cool but not draconian types or epic only

It's a greater deity... If the quest was designed for heroic characters, we wouldn't be going up against Tiamat. We maybe would fight some of her priests (dragon clerics).

[UurlockYgmeov]

Ok, I know "Dragonborn" is a name already in Forgotten Realms use but I think it sounds cooler than "Half-Dragon" so I used it here anyway...


Introducing 10 all new Iconic Heros: the Dragonborn! {conveniently that's how many classes are not currently attatched to Iconics} They come in two bundles: The Chromatic (Red, Blue, Green, Black, White) and the Metalic (Gold, Silver, Brass, Bonze, Copper).

• Chromatic Iconic Pastlives are +3% Elemental Absorption (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Poison Absorption from Green) for the Passive PLs; and +10 Elemental Spellpower (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Force from Green) for the Active/Stance PLs.

• Metallic Iconic Pastlives are +1 Melee/Ranged-power (3x stacking, same for all types) for the Passive PLs; and the Active/Stance PLs are as follows (all stacking 3x):
•• Gold - 3% SP cost reduction.
•• Silver - +1 Loot Boost.
•• Brass - +10 Sonic Spellpower
•• Bronze - 3% Fortification Bypass
•• Copper - Hirelings, Pets & Summons gain 10% Incorporeal.

Introducing a new Feat: Iconic Completionist! "You've now not only won DDO, but mastered it! After collecting at least one Pastlife from each of the Iconic Heros, you obtain the Iconic Completionist Feat (auto granted at character generation) and you now get +1 Enhancement Point!" (3x stacking. Taking a Capstone from one Tree now locks out the Capstones in other Trees, just as Tier 5 Enhancements do.)

Pre-Order the Deluxe Collector's Eddition to get both Iconic Dragonborn bundles and the exclusive Dragonborn Mirror of Glamoring that will create a cosmetic replica of any armor (standard restrictions apply) and add wings!.


To do it justice it would need to be an expansion the size of MotU.

1. Causing problems for the cult of the dragon.
2. Causing problems for the dragons
3. Traveling to the first layer of hell to face her 3 champions Malphas, Amduscias, and Goap.
4. Then finally going up against her in the pre-raid, where we have to fight her in the form of a human sorceress forcing her to retreat to Avernus.
5. Then she gets serious, and turns into a huge dragon that we defeat with the help of some artifact somewhere inside the labyrinth of treasure piles while fighting off dragons and demons as she appears fights briefly and retreats (she is known to only fight when she is sure of victory). Rather than an auto attack + mass heal spam bs. Facing her directly should be auto-wipe even on norm.

And all we manage to do is banish her for 100 years, she is a greater deity after all...

slap these two together and charge 100 USD...

http://splodinator.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Shut-Up-And-Take-My-Rupees.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9kwYL.jpg?1
:cool:

[DevilYouKnow]

slap these two together and charge 100 USD...

http://splodinator.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Shut-Up-And-Take-My-Rupees.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9kwYL.jpg?1
:cool:

Yep. /signed

[Sunnie]

Any news about the Thunderholme storyline yet ? Especially Tiamat.

Any chance that it will be continued ? Or is that now just a relic of the past, never to be introduced ?

Tyranny of Dragons (Lore)

For years, the evil Cult of the Dragon has devoted itself to creating undead dragons in a vain attempt to fulfill an ancient prophecy. However, the cultists were misguided. They misunderstood. But now, under new leadership, the cult believes that the prophecy does not speak of undead dragons, but of a dragon empire that’s been extinct for 25,000 years. Tiamat, the queen of evil dragons, has languished in the Nine Hells for millennia. The cult believes that the time of her return is at hand.
The cult has a new face and a new mission. It seeks to free Tiamat from the Nine Hells and bring her into the Forgotten Realms.
Tyranny of Dragons is a D&D event celebrating the 40th anniversary of D&D organized by Wizards of the Coast for the summer of 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelstar

Source :

(...) the events of Fire on Thunder Peak and Temple of the Deathwyrm serve as a prequel to Tyranny of Dragons; the events in those raids led to changes in the Cult of the Dragon, which ultimately lead to the upcoming events in the pen-and-paper Tyranny of Dragons!

I can only approve of this if we get these two as our questgivers:
http://i.imgur.com/DOzp3On.png
And if Annoyingminster gets involved again, even that won't be enough to save it.


My personal feelings for half-dragon races by whatever name are best summed up with "NO!" DDO started in Eberron, it should respect Eberron lore.

And adding bonus action points has been repeatedly demonstrated to be a bad idea. 3 points more may not seem like much, but they would in most cases boil down to another 3 core abilities, and the power gain from that alone (not to mention the PL feats you propsed) is not so much creeping as it's a sprint. But by all means, if you want to widen the gap between new players and multi-TRs even more, fine, great suggestion then. Hey, how about we make the heroic completionist feat auto-granted as well, and award it several times for people who've got 2 or more of each hPL. And allow PLs to stack indefinitely, that would make the metagame so much better, right?

[Silverleafeon]

Ok, I know "Dragonborn" is a name already in Forgotten Realms use but I think it sounds cooler than "Half-Dragon" so I used it here anyway...


Introducing 10 all new Iconic Heros: the Dragonborn! {conveniently that's how many classes are not currently attatched to Iconics} They come in two bundles: The Chromatic (Red, Blue, Green, Black, White) and the Metalic (Gold, Silver, Brass, Bonze, Copper).

• Chromatic Iconic Pastlives are +3% Elemental Absorption (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Poison Absorption from Green) for the Passive PLs; and +10 Elemental Spellpower (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Force from Green) for the Active/Stance PLs.

• Metallic Iconic Pastlives are +1 Melee/Ranged-power (3x stacking, same for all types) for the Passive PLs; and the Active/Stance PLs are as follows (all stacking 3x):
•• Gold - 3% SP cost reduction.
•• Silver - +1 Loot Boost.
•• Brass - +10 Sonic Spellpower
•• Bronze - 3% Fortification Bypass
•• Copper - Hirelings, Pets & Summons gain 10% Incorporeal.

Introducing a new Feat: Iconic Completionist! "You've now not only won DDO, but mastered it! After collecting at least one Pastlife from each of the Iconic Heros, you obtain the Iconic Completionist Feat (auto granted at character generation) and you now get +1 Enhancement Point!" (3x stacking. Taking a Capstone from one Tree now locks out the Capstones in other Trees, just as Tier 5 Enhancements do.)

Pre-Order the Deluxe Collector's Eddition to get both Iconic Dragonborn bundles and the exclusive Dragonborn Mirror of Glamoring that will create a cosmetic replica of any armor (standard restrictions apply) and add wings!.

Wow, great ideas here.

Introduction of a whole large group of new races!


The race would all use the same basic modelling. This should reduce individual costs considerably.


Would love to see more Iconics in the game, including an Iconic Completionist PL.


Iconic Completionist not costing a feat I approve of.


+1 enhancement (I assume to held weapons?) sounds very reasonable and not too power hungry.

[Silverleafeon]

slap these two together and charge 100 USD...

http://splodinator.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Shut-Up-And-Take-My-Rupees.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9kwYL.jpg?1
:cool:

/definitely signed


I stand by the decision to do Epic Vale first (coming soon) and bring out ToEE (already done), but afterwards, yes please!

[Uska]

Uska can you please stop derailing this topic ? I am asking for suggestions, not how much you hate the realms.

Again you aren't paying attention I said I would rather the game close than add a draconic race not more realms and it is on topic

[Steve_Howe]

Again you aren't paying attention I said I would rather the game close than add a draconic race not more realms and it is on topic

This thread is about the Tyranny of Dragons story line. I haven't seen a single post from you regarding the story line. Your hatred of the realms is well-known and, it seems, colors everything you say regarding DDO or D&D. If you're not going to actually post anything about the Tyranny of Dragons story line, you might as well create another thread where you and all the others Realms haters can have a grand old time.

This is not the thread you're looking for.

[Uska]

This thread is about the Tyranny of Dragons story line. I haven't seen a single post from you regarding the story line. Your hatred of the realms is well-known and, it seems, colors everything you say regarding DDO or D&D. If you're not going to actually post anything about the Tyranny of Dragons story line, you might as well create another thread where you and all the others Realms haters can have a grand old time.

This is not the thread you're looking for.

Again someone not paying attention someone posted about a drconianrace and I posted my objection

[Algreg]

Again someone not paying attention someone posted about a drconianrace and I posted my objection

I dislike FR and draconic races. Still, I do not feel the necessity of jumping into every relating thread and giving useless feedback that is nothing more but "I think it´s ****". 90 % of your forum posts are about things being wrong just because you don´t like the setting or because they deviate from what you prefer at your personal pnp table. You can do that all the way you like, but don´t expect people not getting tired of the endless reiteration of "in my house, we play the real D&D".

[Deadlock]

Again someone not paying attention someone posted about a drconianrace and I posted my objection

Dragonborn are certainly part of Eberron lore (http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonborn).

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/eberron/images/d/d0/4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110918114848

So I guess your objection while so eloquently put is for some other ideological reason?

From a modelling point of view, the model for a dragonborn could be a reduced version of the horned devil. I've always thought that tiefling would be the next race as the model is basically there and if we ignore the tails as we already do, then it's just the horns which aren't a million miles from bladeforged spikes. Eladrin also works for me and would be easy enough to model *cough elf cough*.

The devs have previously posted that they created a whole load of tech for modelling dragons that would allow each one to be "unique". So while I think people would get a bit bored if every single update included a dragon just so this tech could be utilised, I think it's crazy to thank that all of the effort that went into the tech won't be used again.

We've no idea what discussion take place behind the scenes at a licencee/licensor level but personally I'm disappointed by the lack of visible support for DDO on the WotC website. Whether that's because Turbine/WB won't pay the increased fees for this or whether it's because Turbine/WB just aren't willing/able to assert their position for equal footing I don't know. What I do know is that it's not a criticism of the devs in any way - this is a failure way above their paygrade.

There's also the possibility that Turbine don't have the resources to develop their own content while simultaneously developing content to coincide with the storylines being promoted by WoTc.

EDIT: But regardless, the Tyranny of Dragon bus has left the station last year, it's Rage of Demons that WotC are promoting now.

[Uska]

Dragonborn are certainly part of Eberron lore (http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Dragonborn).

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/eberron/images/d/d0/4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110918114848

So I guess your objection while so eloquently put is for some other ideological reason?

From a modelling point of view, the model for a dragonborn could be a reduced version of the horned devil. I've always thought that tiefling would be the next race as the model is basically there and if we ignore the tails as we already do, then it's just the horns which aren't a million miles from bladeforged spikes. Eladrin also works for me and would be easy enough to model *cough elf cough*.

The devs have previously posted that they created a whole load of tech for modelling dragons that would allow each one to be "unique". So while I think people would get a bit bored if every single update included a dragon just so this tech could be utilised, I think it's crazy to thank that all of the effort that went into the tech won't be used again.

We've no idea what discussion take place behind the scenes at a licencee/licensor level but personally I'm disappointed by the lack of visible support for DDO on the WotC website. Whether that's because Turbine/WB won't pay the increased fees for this or whether it's because Turbine/WB just aren't willing/able to assert their position for equal footing I don't know. What I do know is that it's not a criticism of the devs in any way - this is a failure way above their paygrade.

There's also the possibility that Turbine don't have the resources to develop their own content while simultaneously developing content to coincide with the storylines being promoted by WoTc.

EDIT: But regardless, the Tyranny of Dragon bus has left the station last year, it's Rage of Demons that WotC are promoting now.

Retro fitted after start and not by Keith and races of the dragon is an over powered OPTINAL splat book and doesn't count

[Wakkander]

Retro fitted after start and not by Keith and races of the dragon is an over powered OPTINAL splat book and doesn't count

Dragonborn were retrofitted in every setting more or less because someone at wotc thought it would be cool. They certainly weren't a core part of Ed's realms. Arguing that anything new to a setting that wasn't part of the original would also mean 90% of everything published for any of the major wotc settings shouldn't count.

That said, I dislike dragonborn, I do not want them in the game. I also dislike cat folk, and every other anthropomorphic race, I think they are lazy and silly. I would rather see core races like gnomes, that have a long history in D&D rather than them. To that end I would also rather see shifters, and other Eberron races like the changeling and kalashtar. If you want new races that cut down on new models how about sub-races, letting sun elves, moon elves, shield dwarves, etc, be created? Even tieflings, much as I dislike them for similar though not identical reasons as dragonborn, at least have deeper routes in the game, and they could add in aasimar while they are at it so we can have a +2 wis race.

Ideally of course instead they would make DDO2, and instead of Stormreach it would be Sigil, and they would bring back Modrons and the awesomeness of the mechanical derpy race that warforged can never hope or dream of being. But I suppose that is unlikely to ever happen.

[DevilYouKnow]

Dragonborn were retrofitted in every setting more or less because someone at wotc thought it would be cool. They certainly weren't a core part of Ed's realms. Arguing that anything new to a setting that wasn't part of the original would also mean 90% of everything published for any of the major wotc settings shouldn't count.

That said, I dislike dragonborn, I do not want them in the game. I also dislike cat folk, and every other anthropomorphic race, I think they are lazy and silly. I would rather see core races like gnomes, that have a long history in D&D rather than them. To that end I would also rather see shifters, and other Eberron races like the changeling and kalashtar. If you want new races that cut down on new models how about sub-races, letting sun elves, moon elves, shield dwarves, etc, be created? Even tieflings, much as I dislike them for similar though not identical reasons as dragonborn, at least have deeper routes in the game, and they could add in aasimar while they are at it so we can have a +2 wis race.

Ideally of course instead they would make DDO2, and instead of Stormreach it would be Sigil, and they would bring back Modrons and the awesomeness of the mechanical derpy race that warforged can never hope or dream of being. But I suppose that is unlikely to ever happen.

However. This game is called Dungeons and Dragons, isn't it ? Though we barely have any dragons.

[Sunnie]

However. This game is called Dungeons and Dragons, isn't it ? Though we barely have any dragons.
The first dragon is in a level 2 quest. Then at level 10 in a raid, followed by 2 more dragons at level 13, a whopping 3 more at 14, 2 dragons at level 17, and 1 at level 19. That's off the top of my head and I may be missing some. Oh right, the Eveningstar Cave challenge. Then they're all over the place during epics.

Plenty of dragons in the game already I'd say. The last thing we need is PC half-dragon half-whatever abominations running all over the place. We already have Erandis Vol, and as much as I sympathise with her and her goals, I wouldn't want to play any form of half-dragon in the Eberron setting.

[DevilYouKnow]

The first dragon is in a level 2 quest. Then at level 10 in a raid, followed by 2 more dragons at level 13, a whopping 3 more at 14, 2 dragons at level 17, and 1 at level 19. That's off the top of my head and I may be missing some. Oh right, the Eveningstar Cave challenge. Then they're all over the place during epics.

Plenty of dragons in the game already I'd say. The last thing we need is PC half-dragon half-whatever abominations running all over the place. We already have Erandis Vol, and as much as I sympathise with her and her goals, I wouldn't want to play any form of half-dragon in the Eberron setting.

I don't remember seeing any dragons for a while now. Anything outdated does not matter anymore.

This game should feature dragons, plus it has nothing to do with d&d.

For your information also. This topic is about the "maybe" upcoming Tiamat storyline, continuing the

recent events in thunderholme. This has nothing to do with dragonborns either.

[Uska]

I don't remember seeing any dragons for a while now. Anything outdated does not matter anymore.

This game should feature dragons, plus it has nothing to do with d&d.

For your information also. This topic is about the "maybe" upcoming Tiamat storyline, continuing the

recent events in thunderholme. This has nothing to do with dragonborns either.

Thunder peak has dragons and is recent and I wasn't the first to bring them up and I responded and Dragons should be rare as they are powerful


We have nothing to do with D&D lol that's insane

[BankCoffer]

Thunder peak has dragons and is recent and I wasn't the first to bring them up and I responded and Dragons should be rare as they are powerful


We have nothing to do with D&D lol that's insane

They are not rare in Ebberon. We have an entire continent where they live. One of our servers is named after it.

[Steve_Howe]

Again someone not paying attention someone posted about a drconianrace and I posted my objection

Just because someone else went off-topic doesn't mean you have to.

[Uska]

Just because someone else went off-topic doesn't mean you have to.

How about we just ignore each other we never are going to agree on anything I don't mean put on ignore list unless desired

[DevilYouKnow]

How about we just ignore each other we never are going to agree on anything I don't mean put on ignore list unless desired

Please do. Put me on ignore list too.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Since it has Dragon(s) - it must have Dungeons! and for once, a REAL live (not broken down) castle! :cool:


To do it justice it would need to be an expansion the size of MotU.

1. Causing problems for the cult of the dragon.
2. Causing problems for the dragons
3. Traveling to the first layer of hell to face her 3 champions Malphas, Amduscias, and Goap.
4. Then finally going up against her in the pre-raid, where we have to fight her in the form of a human sorceress forcing her to retreat to Avernus.
5. Then she gets serious, and turns into a huge dragon that we defeat with the help of some artifact somewhere inside the labyrinth of treasure piles while fighting off dragons and demons as she appears fights briefly and retreats (she is known to only fight when she is sure of victory). Rather than an auto attack + mass heal spam bs. Facing her directly should be auto-wipe even on norm.

And all we manage to do is banish her for 100 years, she is a greater deity after all...


Ok, I know "Dragonborn" is a name already in Forgotten Realms use but I think it sounds cooler than "Half-Dragon" so I used it here anyway...


Introducing 10 all new Iconic Heros: the Dragonborn! {conveniently that's how many classes are not currently attatched to Iconics} They come in two bundles: The Chromatic (Red, Blue, Green, Black, White) and the Metalic (Gold, Silver, Brass, Bonze, Copper).

• Chromatic Iconic Pastlives are +3% Elemental Absorption (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Poison Absorption from Green) for the Passive PLs; and +10 Elemental Spellpower (3x stacking, element according to dragon type - Force from Green) for the Active/Stance PLs.

• Metallic Iconic Pastlives are +1 Melee/Ranged-power (3x stacking, same for all types) for the Passive PLs; and the Active/Stance PLs are as follows (all stacking 3x):
•• Gold - 3% SP cost reduction.
•• Silver - +1 Loot Boost.
•• Brass - +10 Sonic Spellpower
•• Bronze - 3% Fortification Bypass
•• Copper - Hirelings, Pets & Summons gain 10% Incorporeal.

Introducing a new Feat: Iconic Completionist! "You've now not only won DDO, but mastered it! After collecting at least one Pastlife from each of the Iconic Heros, you obtain the Iconic Completionist Feat (auto granted at character generation) and you now get +1 Enhancement Point!" (3x stacking. Taking a Capstone from one Tree now locks out the Capstones in other Trees, just as Tier 5 Enhancements do.)

Pre-Order the Deluxe Collector's Eddition to get both Iconic Dragonborn bundles and the exclusive Dragonborn Mirror of Glamoring that will create a cosmetic replica of any armor (standard restrictions apply) and add wings!.


slap these two together and charge 100 USD...

http://splodinator.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Shut-Up-And-Take-My-Rupees.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9kwYL.jpg?1
:cool:

[Algreg]

They are not rare in Ebberon. We have an entire continent where they live. One of our servers is named after it.

yeah, but they are very far from the silly coin sitting fantasy cliche. I´d love the game getting back into the interesting Eberron lore and arcs, but I guess the people responsible have long left the company (not saying newer quests are bad per se, but that earlier Eberron lore and feel of interconnecting stories were great).

[Wakkander]

However. This game is called Dungeons and Dragons, isn't it ? Though we barely have any dragons.

Plenty of dragons, dragonborn are lame pseudo-dragons anyway, but not, y'know, pseudodragons, those are different. It isn't Dungeons & Dragonborn, and adding it so dragons happen every 5 seconds cheapens them as a whole. Dragons should be rare, and incredibly awesome foes you face on occasion. The moment they become as common as kobolds, they kind of lose their cool factor.

I would be in support of playable kobolds mind you, they do believe themselves descended or related to dragons, though that varies from setting to setting. Kobold play could also be perfect for all those who want more challenge to DDO, -4 str, +2 dex, -2 con, make them permadeath while your at it, boom, we have a real reaper mode ready to go.

As to the original topic, I doubt we'll see a continuation of the tyranny of dragons, if Turbine returns to the mainline story arcs it will be to promote the current one, whatever that is come time for it to happen. I would like to see them continue the tie-ins, if for no other reason than offering some potentially interesting new content we wouldn't see much of otherwise.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Plenty of dragons, dragonborn are lame pseudo-dragons anyway, but not, y'know, pseudodragons, those are different. It isn't Dungeons & Dragonborn, and adding it so dragons happen every 5 seconds cheapens them as a whole. Dragons should be rare, and incredibly awesome foes you face on occasion. The moment they become as common as kobolds, they kind of lose their cool factor.

I would be in support of playable kobolds mind you, they do believe themselves descended or related to dragons, though that varies from setting to setting. Kobold play could also be perfect for all those who want more challenge to DDO, -4 str, +2 dex, -2 con, make them permadeath while your at it, boom, we have a real reaper mode ready to go.

As to the original topic, I doubt we'll see a continuation of the tyranny of dragons, if Turbine returns to the mainline story arcs it will be to promote the current one, whatever that is come time for it to happen. I would like to see them continue the tie-ins, if for no other reason than offering some potentially interesting new content we wouldn't see much of otherwise.

At level 30 what else are you going to fight? more spiders and kobalds? No, it should be awesome foes that would normally take an army to defeat.

[DevilYouKnow]

At level 30 what else are you going to fight? more spiders and kobalds? No, it should be awesome foes that would normally take an army to defeat.

This. Kobolds and the like are childs play. I want to fight real foes, aka a true god (nothing like lolth). And this said god (Tiamat) should be able to destroy us. Even on epic normal.

[Uska]

This. Kobolds and the like are childs play. I want to fight real foes, aka a true god (nothing like lolth). And this said god (Tiamat) should be able to destroy us. Even on epic normal.

Find and read Tucker's Kobolds

[BankCoffer]

Find and read Tucker's Kobolds

Seems weak. I would have had the party burn large bonfires with oil spills all over in the entrance of the dungeon on level 1 while barring the door closed from the outside. This would have burned and choked all remaining kobolds in the tunnels and around corridors. Then entered the dungeons looted and ate kobold bbq. Well played, Tucker. GG

[Nonesuch2008]

This. Kobolds and the like are childs play. I want to fight real foes, aka a true god (nothing like lolth). And this said god (Tiamat) should be able to destroy us. Even on epic normal.

LOL, I read this & it brought back a very specific memory from PnP. I agree with the concept, there should definitely be some supreme uber-boss that encompasses much more than just being a bag of hit points, whether it be from teleporting, retributive damage, spell absorption, de-buff aura or all those things and more. Most importantly, I think the situation requires an element of failure ***even if the party does everything correctly.*** Even a harmless game like Solitaire has no guarantee of every deal being a winning hand.

About that memory, my group had just completed a pretty strenuous quest, with most of us having survived the boss encounter. We collected our spoils & proceeded to march out of the dungeon, and I remember us having to cross this long stone bridge over an expanse of lava to reach the exit. About halfway across the bridge, the DM makes an announcement about a 'disturbance below', which turned out to be Hastur manifesting himself. Short version, he grows to ~80 feet tall, towers over the bridge, and announces that we are all going to die. No going back of course & the DM did give us the courtesy of rolling for attack first, but he had no intention of us ever leaving that dungeon alive. I'm not saying an end-game quest should go to this extreme, but the element of risk & uncertainty adds so much character to a quest that it should not be overlooked.

[Wakkander]

Well, If you want the ultimate god like challenge, introduce the Lady of Pain. You literally cannot win, she can not die, and she can maze or destroy you on whim.

The problem with epic levels has always been what you do next, by 20 you are already demigods in most respects, coming up with challenges and stories that are compelling has always been the issue with characters at those levels. In my table top games the idea of going around and killing gods has never held much appeal because they themselves are not supposed to be direct threats but indirect, using their minions and followers to set things in motion. (Though it is often the players mentality that if it exists, they should be able to kill it, which has led to some interesting debates surrounding the aforementioned Lady of Pain, and in rarer cases Ao. Why anyone would care enough to kill either is bewildering to me, especially since they are not the type that sit around plotting machinations and instead just generally ignore mortals as a whole, but say something is impossible and suddenly it is what players obsess over.) The moment it is just something you can whack on the head until it dies it loses its narrative power, they all do. Ascending to godhood is also a bad idea, especially in the realms, unless the character is going to be retired, and that wouldn't work in a mmo for obvious reasons.

Fighting gods leaves you no room to grow, you've taken on the most powerful aspects in the universe and won, so then what?

[DevilYouKnow]

bump

[AshurDS]

Always brings a smile to my face when i think about some of the old games I've played that have included the biggest badest enemies. Things like Baldur's Gate RPG where you take down the Prince of Demons itself- Demogorgon. Also, i remember the thrill of forming a raiding party early in the life of Everquest to take down the Evil God's: Cazic Thule and Innoruuk. Fun and memorable times. Hope we eventually get something that cool in DDO... Tiamat would be a good choice!

Ashur

[Steve_Howe]

I would think a suitably buffed Tarasque, like a true Tiamat, would provide an adequate challenge for our toons. I think the Tarasque would be a better fit for Eberron than Tiamat too.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Well, If you want the ultimate god like challenge, introduce the Lady of Pain. You literally cannot win, she can not die, and she can maze or destroy you on whim.

The problem with epic levels has always been what you do next, by 20 you are already demigods in most respects, coming up with challenges and stories that are compelling has always been the issue with characters at those levels. In my table top games the idea of going around and killing gods has never held much appeal because they themselves are not supposed to be direct threats but indirect, using their minions and followers to set things in motion. (Though it is often the players mentality that if it exists, they should be able to kill it, which has led to some interesting debates surrounding the aforementioned Lady of Pain, and in rarer cases Ao. Why anyone would care enough to kill either is bewildering to me, especially since they are not the type that sit around plotting machinations and instead just generally ignore mortals as a whole, but say something is impossible and suddenly it is what players obsess over.) The moment it is just something you can whack on the head until it dies it loses its narrative power, they all do. Ascending to godhood is also a bad idea, especially in the realms, unless the character is going to be retired, and that wouldn't work in a mmo for obvious reasons.

Fighting gods leaves you no room to grow, you've taken on the most powerful aspects in the universe and won, so then what?
The gods are child's play compared to the Demiurges.

For example

http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Ouroboros,_Great-Great-Great_Wyrm_Cometary_Dragon

or
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death,_CR_373

[Nonesuch2008]

I would think a suitably buffed Tarasque, like a true Tiamat, would provide an adequate challenge for our toons. I think the Tarasque would be a better fit for Eberron than Tiamat too.

I like a tarasque as a suitably challenging foe, but since it is basically brainless albeit driven by pure evil, have it be the minion or guardian of something else to give the setting some depth. I know this mechanic is reminiscent of vampires & wolves, or a Netherese Mage & purple worm setup, but by itself it just doesn't feel right as a pure boss to me. Perhaps work it in as a prelude quest, infiltrate some citadel & kill the prize pet tarasque of the main protagonist in order to prevent him/her/it from divining some sort of evil power from it. Remove a mystical horn, fang or talon to obtain the flagging item for the next quest in the chain.

[Algreg]

The gods are child's play compared to the Demiurges.

For example

http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Ouroboros,_Great-Great-Great_Wyrm_Cometary_Dragon

or
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death,_CR_373

wow, with their later boxes, D&D really went for Marvel cosmology sillyness it appears :) (if that was even in the original system)

[Steve_Howe]

I like a tarasque as a suitably challenging foe, but since it is basically brainless albeit driven by pure evil, have it be the minion or guardian of something else to give the setting some depth. I know this mechanic is reminiscent of vampires & wolves, or a Netherese Mage & purple worm setup, but by itself it just doesn't feel right as a pure boss to me. Perhaps work it in as a prelude quest, infiltrate some citadel & kill the prize pet tarasque of the main protagonist in order to prevent him/her/it from divining some sort of evil power from it. Remove a mystical horn, fang or talon to obtain the flagging item for the next quest in the chain.
Not bad...

[Steve_Howe]

wow, with their later boxes, D&D really went for Marvel cosmology sillyness it appears :) (if that was even in the original system)
NONE of that stuff in those links is official.

it's all third party/homebrew junk.

[Algreg]

NONE of that stuff in those links is official.

it's all third party/homebrew junk.

ok, was under the impression that might have been from the Immortals box.

[Lonnbeimnech]

ok, was under the impression that might have been from the Immortals box.

Ouroboros is from the immortal's handbook, listed under cometary dragon pg 64. While the stats for cometary dragons are listed based on catagory, the stats for ouroboros are not, though you can just follow the progression of the table to make them. Which is what was done on the page listed. Though the immortal's handbook is not official... In the same way that Pathfinder is not official.

[Wakkander]

Ouroboros is from the immortal's handbook, listed under cometary dragon pg 64. While the stats for cometary dragons are listed based on catagory, the stats for ouroboros are not, though you can just follow the progression of the table to make them. Which is what was done on the page listed. Though the immortal's handbook is not official... In the same way that Pathfinder is not official.

Third party content is usually hit or miss, that stuff looks more miss than anything. There is no reason to ever have a cr 300+ creature in D&D.

That said what you want are the elder evils, like Atropus, a stillborn god that basically travels through space bringing death and undeath, great if you want to end a campaign with a zombie apocalypse. Then there is Pandorym, a entity trapped by the Imaskari to scare the gods into becoming their slaves, of course even as their empire collapsed under the siege of untheric and mulhorandi gods they didn't release Pandorym, because even they weren't that crazy. You also have the older classic ones like Dendar the night serpent and Kezef the chaos hound. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Elder_evil

Alternatively they could release the apocalypse stone as the games final dlc, you'll have dragons, beholders, and more out the wazoo then, as well as the end of reality, but it didn't hold back on the big bads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apocalypse_Stone

Regarding the terrasque, it is literally a renamed and slightly altered take on godzilla, and nobody controls godzilla.

[Algreg]

Ouroboros is from the immortal's handbook, listed under cometary dragon pg 64. While the stats for cometary dragons are listed based on catagory, the stats for ouroboros are not, though you can just follow the progression of the table to make them. Which is what was done on the page listed. Though the immortal's handbook is not official... In the same way that Pathfinder is not official.

I was actually thinking of this oldtimer here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Immortals_Rules#/media/File:TSR1017_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_-_Set_5_Immortal.jpg

[Eth]

yeah, but they are very far from the silly coin sitting fantasy cliche. I´d love the game getting back into the interesting Eberron lore and arcs, but I guess the people responsible have long left the company (not saying newer quests are bad per se, but that earlier Eberron lore and feel of interconnecting stories were great).

Yes.

[Uska]

The gods are child's play compared to the Demiurges.

For example

http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Ouroboros,_Great-Great-Great_Wyrm_Cometary_Dragon

or
http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death,_CR_373

Third party terrible stuff and shocking even more over the top than most of the other stuff including the worst of the splat books

[Algreg]

Third party terrible stuff and shocking even more over the top than most of the other stuff including the worst of the splat books

that is a rare case of agreement between us. I cannot even fathom how those campaigns might look like...

[Uska]

that is a rare case of agreement between us. I cannot even fathom how those campaigns might look like...

Mind numbing isn't it and I mean us agreeing and thought of us those kind of games :)

I like lower powered and lower magic games myself which is why I run HM5

[Algreg]

Mind numbing isn't it and I mean us agreeing and thought of us those kind of games :)

I like lower powered and lower magic games myself which is why I run HM5

I like many kinds of styles, but that here is like "Galactus, you succesfully attacked Eternity. Roll D800.000 for damage." I am not even saying such scenarios cannot be interesting (or playable for that matter), but going for physical combat statistics in this case cannot be the way in my opinion. It completely banalizes such beings and takes away what actually makes up their fascination as unfathomably powerful and ultimately enigmatic beings. If you have them trying to best each other´s AC or whatever, you could as well tone down to the Kobold - Knight scenario.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I like many kinds of styles, but that here is like "Galactus, you succesfully attacked Eternity. Roll D800.000 for damage." I am not even saying such scenarios cannot be interesting (or playable for that matter), but going for physical combat statistics in this case cannot be the way in my opinion. It completely banalizes such beings and takes away what actually makes up their fascination as unfathomably powerful and ultimately enigmatic beings. If you have them trying to best each other´s AC or whatever, you could as well tone down to the Kobold - Knight scenario.

Yes.

But also it banalizes beings such as Tiamat to have us beat her up. We are at the power level to thwart her plans, to defeat her armies, that sort of thing. But kill a greater deity by merely attacking it, or climbing inside it's belly and hack it to death from inside, no.

Beings like this are better left as plot devices.

[DevilYouKnow]

Yes.

But also it banalizes beings such as Tiamat to have us beat her up. We are at the power level to thwart her plans, to defeat her armies, that sort of thing. But kill a greater deity by merely attacking it, or climbing inside it's belly and hack it to death from inside, no.

Beings like this are better left as plot devices.

Hopefully nothing like Lolth.

[Algreg]

Yes.

But also it banalizes beings such as Tiamat to have us beat her up. We are at the power level to thwart her plans, to defeat her armies, that sort of thing. But kill a greater deity by merely attacking it, or climbing inside it's belly and hack it to death from inside, no.

Beings like this are better left as plot devices.

I agree. Though this game here is in a really, really strange spot. We have characters of ridiculous power at epic levels (in general and especially compared to the source game). And yet - for the most part - we crawl through dungeons, do foot- and wetwork stuff usually reserved for low and medium level characters in classic style campaigns, all the while fighting rats, wolves and bugbears on a power level that dwarves any D&D diety. When you look at the original game design, it seems enemy level and type had some idea behind them, I mean, even when Kobolds where reused in a lvl 13 and lvl 18 quest, finding an explanation for their uncommon power was part of the storytelling. Then reused heroic quests were quickly converted for old style epics - which was not the perfect way to go, but ok, as they acted as a "game outside of the normal game". The bad idea was sticking to the concept of inflating low level monsters to epic proportions when epic content became an "organic" extension of the game. No more rehashed rats and wolves and skeletons, no diety level wildlife and stuff. Epic characters should not rescue some villagers from the hand of a band of Drow (again ridiculously leveled, every army grunt of the Underdark is epic level, really?), they should be destroying doomsday devices on other planes. The newer raids got it right to some extent, sans banalizing details like "hit the giant cleavage!".

[Algreg]

Hopefully nothing like Lolth.

yes, I found the supposedly most cunning diety acting with the efficiency of a Bond villain a rather weird way to go :)

[Wakkander]

yes, I found the supposedly most cunning diety acting with the efficiency of a Bond villain a rather weird way to go :)

It is the problem with introducing deities as direct villains, they rarely live up to the hype.