Warlock Feats?

[FranOhmsford]

What would you say the optimal Feat layout is for a Pure Warlock {Let's not go into Multi-class builds please.}?

Drow/Elf/Dwarf/Halfling/H-Elf/H-Orc:
1) Spell Focus: Evoc?
3) Gtr Spell Focus Evoc or Arcane Initiate or Completionist?
6) Extend or Force of Personality?
9) Heighten?
12) Maximise?
15) Quicken?
18) Spell Pen?
21) Epic Eldritch Blast?
24) Great Charisma?
27) Ruin?

Note the question marks!

Human:
What would be your extra Feat?


Warforged:
Do you fit in a Body feat?
And which feat would you lose to fit it in?

[cru121]

There are obviously many opinions what feats are good or not. One possible set of feats has been posted on the wiki:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Warlock

[FranOhmsford]

There are obviously many opinions what feats are good or not. One possible set of feats has been posted on the wiki:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Warlock

Why would a Warlock take any of the Mental Toughness Feats? Have you EVER seen a Warlock run out of SPs?

Eschew Mats is a Newbie Trap!

And I know I placed Spell Focus: Evoc in my list of possibles but I've heard people say that that's not necessary either?

I also note that Force of Personality is not on that list - Seems a major discrepancy?

[Holyavatar]

I would choose 1. maximize 2 empower 3.completionist 4 quicken 5-6 2 mental toughness 7 cha mod to will saves u could swap mental toughness for DC focus if u wanna play a SE DC warlock...but its meh imo.

[Holyavatar]

Why would a Warlock take any of the Mental Toughness Feats? Have you EVER seen a Warlock run out of SPs?

Eschew Mats is a Newbie Trap!

And I know I placed Spell Focus: Evoc in my list of possibles but I've heard people say that that's not necessary either?

I also note that Force of Personality is not on that list - Seems a major discrepancy?

Warlock never have enough sp when u play high end ee contents..Since u need to spam Hellball and ruin..dat cost a lot of SP..Besides,mental toughness series also give u 3% moar crit..which is very nice

[cru121]

Why would a Warlock take any of the Mental Toughness Feats? Have you EVER seen a Warlock run out of SPs?

Eschew Mats is a Newbie Trap!

And I know I placed Spell Focus: Evoc in my list of possibles but I've heard people say that that's not necessary either?

I also note that Force of Personality is not on that list - Seems a major discrepancy?

1) To have more SP and +1 spell crit chance. And yes, I have seen my warlock who doesn't even use spells to run out of SP.
2) Perhaps
3) Nothing is must have. I am sure there are plenty of warlock builds who don't care about Evocation DC. I know my warlock does not.
4) Force of Personality is listed twice in the article.

Anyway, current Starting a Warlock article was mostly a copy of the Starting a Sorcerer article with some edits by Overvaan/Blackheartox and later few other wiki editors. It's perhaps not much, but it's the best that wiki has.

[Enoach]

I've been playing around with more of the options

I started out primarily Enlightened and found the following feats valuable to my play style

Maximize, Empower, SF: Conjuration, SF: Transmutation, SF: Enchantment, heighten and Spell Penetration
However, I don't have a Wizard PL on this character so would switch the three Above SF feats for the Arcane PL Active Feat
Max/Emp for the Burst/Blast
Transmutation is for the Entangle <- very versatile CC
Conjuration & Spell Pen <- while the slow part of Tentacles does not have a save the other effects are based on Conjuration DC and does have a SP check
Enchantment was based more on my desire to use more of these types of spells with my Warlock - Still sad that these are not as effective in Epic as they are in Heroic

I've switched out of Enlightened to try a more caster Soul Eater
I kept Max/Emp for the Wave, but am debating on going with more Spell Pen Feats

On the issue of Mental Toughness, while it is true that using the Eldritch abilities don't require lots of SP, if you tend to use the spells for CC having a deeper pool can make a difference. Also, the +1% crit chance can be useful as well.

[der_kluge]

I can't speak to a burst-based Warlock, as I'm playing an eldritch blast warlock. But the description of the blast specifically states that metamagics do not alter their effectiveness. Which means if you take things like empower, maximize, et al., you're specifically doing so to augment your spells, which seems odd, since warlocks get so few offensive spells.

I've found great benefit in having really awesome Webs, and have take spell focus (conjuration) and Extend, to increase the duration of my buffs.

I also like mental toughness for improved crit %, and will probably take imp. mental toughness as well.

I also really like PL Wizard and PL Bard, and I've taken both. Take Completionist if you have it (I don't, yet).

I also went with Force of Personality since I have such a high cha, and Insightful reflexes, since I dumped dex and have a decent int for spellcraft.

[Makkuroi]

Im playing 41 ES 31 soul eater 8 scholar... my thoughts on feats:

must have:
-Max/Emp/Quicken (for eldritch burst/spirit blast/consume/stricken/divine wrath)

always good:

-Completionist, Wiz PL, Force of Personality

lvl 18 and lvl 24 feats are basically free to chose, here some ideas:

-SF: Conjuration (for web and tentacles, unlocks conjuration twists)
-SF: Necro (unlocks necro twist)
-SF: Enchantment (Mostly interesting for Fey pact, unlocks enchantment twist)
-heighten (for web? not convinced on this one)
-mental toughness (mainly for the spell crit)
-extend (mainly for displacement, maybe tensors)
-epic charisma (if youre uneven with gear/enhancements/tomes)

Epic Feats are also pretty much given, except for the lvl 24 one:

Epic: (21)Epic Eldritch Blast, (26)Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast, (27)Ruin, (28)Epic Spellpower: Light. (I tried hellball and decided against it).

[Drakos]

Why would a Warlock take any of the Mental Toughness Feats? Have you EVER seen a Warlock run out of SPs?Eschew Mats is a Newbie Trap!And I know I placed Spell Focus: Evoc in my list of possibles but I've heard people say that that's not necessary either?I also note that Force of Personality is not on that list - Seems a major discrepancy?I've run out of SP on my Warlocks before.

[Loromir]

I personally took spell school: Necro for the souleater goodies. I'm not sure Evocation is really that important IMO. Conjuration would be another good choice if your run in Great Old One.

I found spell points to be a premium on my Warlock...especially in Epic.

[Qaz1qaz1qa]

I am kind of new to locks. I am wondering how Quicken and Heighten help the burst? I noticed I could turn these meta on perma when right clicking my 2 burst attacks. (Eldritch Burst and Spirit Blast). ONly benefit I truly saw in Quicken was having it on for Tentacles to prevent interrupts.
Also I was not real sure about getting Ruin as it affects a single target. I opted for the Earth Epic feat to help the acid part of my attacks as well as Intensify. My aura without crit does well over 500 HP damage to everyone around me. So having a hard time getting convinced to choose Ruin.

And finally I ER and TR thinking I could choose the wizard past life but of course silly me did not realized that logically that I would actually have to have had a wizard in my past life. But how many? just one? then I can choose the wizard PL multiple times (= yay!)or do I need to do this each time I want the Wizard PL (= boo)?
I think the other class PL that helped spells land was Favored Soul right?

[FuzzyDuck81]

For my warlocks, I generally go with, in approximate order: (assuming human)
1 - maximise spell
1 - empower spell
3 - enlarge spell
6 - past life: cleric (swap out for PL: wizard in epics)
9 - extend spell
12 - quicken spell
15 - mental toughness
18 - improved mental toughness
21 - intensify spell
24 - epic eldritch blast
26 - epic arcane eldritch blast
27 - ruin
28 - epic spellpower: light
29 - arcane pulse
30 - greater ruin
30 - scion of celestia

Basic blasty goodness :) I like to take enlarge spell relatively early since in heroics particularly being able to use a maximised & empowered devour and stricken from long range can end a lot of fights in a hurry. I find the cleric past life one can be really nice for self healing in heroics when you don't want to swap out to scrolls since it benefits from most metamagics for a decent amount of healing in a pinch, then I swap it out for the wizard past life in epics to hit with a nice barrage of potential shiradi procs as I usually have stay frosty twisted.

[FranOhmsford]

OK I started this thread when Warlocks first came out and all the Ubers on Lamannia were raving about Utterdark Blast and Souleater - ES Locks became the go to on Live because they're far easier to play than Souleaters.

Myself I don't like Souleater - Stricken, Consume etc. do not play nice with Chain which I like to use up to Lvl 12ish.
I started a 13/2 Shadar-Kai Warlock/Rogue Souleater on Khyber and found him to be literally unplayable until I rebuilt him into an ES {He's still gimpy compared to all my other Locks but not as gimped as he was}.

I have an absolute tonne of Locks now because ES Auralock is perfect for easy past lives {giving a great past life bonus on top} - I have everything from a 14 Cleric/6 Lock to Pure Locks but each and every one of them is ES Tier 5 and 90% of them are Fey.

I do prefer Drow for race if possible but Human would be my second choice.

The only lock I've got to Lvl 30 so far is Lithya {my first Lock} who started life as a Pale Master and TRd for the first time at Lvl 20 when Lock came out - She hasn't TRd since but has done 2 ERs grabbing Energy Criticals both times.
Her current Feats at Lvl 30 are:
1) Spell Focus: Evoc.
3) Arcane Initiate
6) Force of Personality
9) Maximise
12) Empower
15) Quicken
18) Mental Toughness
21) Epic Eldritch Blast
24) Embolden
26) Epic Arcane EB
27) Intensify
28) Epic Spell Power: Light
29) Epic Spell Power: Sonic
30) Wellspring of Power
30) Scion of the Feywild

Not sure exactly when each Epic Feat was taken.
I might have taken Intensify before Embolden.

And yes I'm in US - Boss DPS maybe slow but I like not dying ty!

Maximise and Empower are not needed for a Chain Lock - Using the Eldritch Burst on a Chain Lock is problematic as it stutters both before and after use. {I have heard that maybe Quickdraw stops this but not sure if true?}.
I don't go to Aura until Lvl 12 minimum when I have both EB AND SB - Max and Emp are for EB and SB and therefore taking Max at Lvl 1 is pointless.

[Qaz1qaz1qa]

I am kind of new to locks. I am wondering how Quicken and Heighten help the burst? I noticed I could turn these meta on perma when right clicking my 2 burst attacks. (Eldritch Burst and Spirit Blast). ONly benefit I truly saw in Quicken was having it on for Tentacles to prevent interrupts.
Also I was not real sure about getting Ruin as it affects a single target. I opted for the Earth Epic feat to help the acid part of my attacks as well as Intensify. My aura without crit does well over 500 HP damage to everyone around me. So having a hard time getting convinced to choose Ruin.

And finally I ER and TR thinking I could choose the wizard past life but of course silly me did not realized that logically that I would actually have to have had a wizard in my past life. But how many? just one? then I can choose the wizard PL multiple times (= yay!)or do I need to do this each time I want the Wizard PL (= boo)?
I think the other class PL that helped spells land was Favored Soul right?

Thanks for all the various builds, but still not getting answers for the questions I asked.

Also the OP asked about Force of Personality. I personally take it as Locks tend to have low wisdom. Thus it helps me resist many of the CC spells the enemy cast like Dance, Charm, Hold... That we would be too vulnerable against. Got my little Harper Pin for that rare occasion I get caught.
My second life I noticed I was getting held quite a bit. Checked my resists and Will was low. Scanned my feats and fooled myself some where thinking I had already taken the feat but I had not. So next level possible I grabbed it and the difference was clear.

So again would like to know about QUICKEN, HEIGHTEN, I cant see them doing anything for my Eldritch blasts. And why bother with RUNE if my aura does the same damage?

[LavidDynch]

Thanks for all the various builds, but still not getting answers for the questions I asked.

Also the OP asked about Force of Personality. I personally take it as Locks tend to have low wisdom. Thus it helps me resist many of the CC spells the enemy cast like Dance, Charm, Hold... That we would be too vulnerable against. Got my little Harper Pin for that rare occasion I get caught.
My second life I noticed I was getting held quite a bit. Checked my resists and Will was low. Scanned my feats and fooled myself some where thinking I had already taken the feat but I had not. So next level possible I grabbed it and the difference was clear.

So again would like to know about QUICKEN, HEIGHTEN, I cant see them doing anything for my Eldritch blasts. And why bother with RUNE if my aura does the same damage?

Your Aura doesn't do 10-50k in 1/2 second, if it does... shr plz!

[FranOhmsford]

Thanks for all the various builds, but still not getting answers for the questions I asked.

Also the OP asked about Force of Personality. I personally take it as Locks tend to have low wisdom. Thus it helps me resist many of the CC spells the enemy cast like Dance, Charm, Hold... That we would be too vulnerable against. Got my little Harper Pin for that rare occasion I get caught.
My second life I noticed I was getting held quite a bit. Checked my resists and Will was low. Scanned my feats and fooled myself some where thinking I had already taken the feat but I had not. So next level possible I grabbed it and the difference was clear.

So again would like to know about QUICKEN, HEIGHTEN, I cant see them doing anything for my Eldritch blasts. And why bother with RUNE if my aura does the same damage?

Heighten is a waste of a Feat on a Lock. Take the Epic Feat Embolden for your DC Spells.

Quicken for me is mandatory if you're going to use Otto's Sphere of Dancing.

[Blastyswa]

Your Aura doesn't do 10-50k in 1/2 second, if it does... shr plz!

No, but it probably does do close to 10-50k damage in the 15 seconds that it takes for ruin to get off cooldown, so if having the damage RIGHT NOW isn't important then it doesn't matter (Like for boss fights).

[Blastyswa]

Heighten is a waste of a Feat on a Lock. Take the Epic Feat Embolden for your DC Spells.

Quicken for me is mandatory if you're going to use Otto's Sphere of Dancing.

Agreed that Heighten is pretty useless for Warlocks. Alternatively to taking Embolden, taking Ruin+GRuin can be good for right now spike damage, although it isn't particularly great overall if you're willing to just spend an extra 20 seconds on bosses. Quicken is nice for heals, Otto's if you have it, web, evard's, every other interruptable heroic spell, hellball, ruins, arcane pulse, and anything else you cast other than blast basically.

[FranOhmsford]

Agreed that Heighten is pretty useless for Warlocks. Alternatively to taking Embolden, taking Ruin+GRuin can be good for right now spike damage, although it isn't particularly great overall if you're willing to just spend an extra 20 seconds on bosses. Quicken is nice for heals, Otto's if you have it, web, evard's, every other interruptable heroic spell, hellball, ruins, arcane pulse, and anything else you cast other than blast basically.

Quicken works on EB/SB.

Not sure it does much but it does work on them.

[Enoach]

Heighten is a waste of a Feat on a Lock. Take the Epic Feat Embolden for your DC Spells.

Quicken for me is mandatory if you're going to use Otto's Sphere of Dancing.


Agreed that Heighten is pretty useless for Warlocks. Alternatively to taking Embolden, taking Ruin+GRuin can be good for right now spike damage, although it isn't particularly great overall if you're willing to just spend an extra 20 seconds on bosses. Quicken is nice for heals, Otto's if you have it, web, evard's, every other interruptable heroic spell, hellball, ruins, arcane pulse, and anything else you cast other than blast basically.

I think the usefulness of Heighten and Quicken is more dependent on your use of spells and focus on the DC of such spells.

Each Warlock Pact has different spell focus and not all warlock builds are dependent on their spells needing higher DCs - Builds that tend to use less spells and more of the Bursts/Blasts/Enhancements/Epic Feats will be less inclined to need Heighten and will gravitate towards Embolden as it works towards the DC from the School side while Heighten works the DC from the Spell Level side which does not effect spells or spell like abilities that have no spell levels or are already considered to be at the highest spell level for purposes of casting.

[Blastyswa]

Quicken works on EB/SB.

Not sure it does much but it does work on them.

Yes, but it doesn't make any difference on interruption (Bursts don't get interrupted anyway) and the casting speed is so close to unchanged that if that was the only reason someone took Quicken, it probably wouldn't be worth it.

[FranOhmsford]

I think the usefulness of Heighten and Quicken is more dependent on your use of spells and focus on the DC of such spells.

Each Warlock Pact has different spell focus and not all warlock builds are dependent on their spells needing higher DCs - Builds that tend to use less spells and more of the Bursts/Blasts/Enhancements/Epic Feats will be less inclined to need Heighten and will gravitate towards Embolden as it works towards the DC from the School side while Heighten works the DC from the Spell Level side which does not effect spells or spell like abilities that have no spell levels or are already considered to be at the highest spell level for purposes of casting.

Which spells on a Lock need Heightening?

Disco Ball?
FoD?
Mass Charm/Hold?
These are either max level already or that close to it you're not getting much from Heighten anyway.

Yes a Wizard would take Heighten for these but a Wizard 4/5 extra Feats AND isn't taking Heighten JUST for these either.

There's no low level spells that need Heightening.

[mr420247]

Heighten mainly webs and tentacles if u really need 2-4 more dcs

Bf blaster feats i've been trying lately

Adamantium body, maximize, empower, quiken, shield mastery, improved shield mastery, 1 mental toughness-Could swap for wiz pl or combat expertise

Epic Blast, intensify, Epic blast, wellspring, hellball, arcane pulse, embolden, Scion of fire

Dumped ruins lately just doesnt seem worth the cost better off stacking arcane pulse cheap

[Enoach]

Which spells on a Lock need Heightening?

Disco Ball?
FoD?
Mass Charm/Hold?
These are either max level already or that close to it you're not getting much from Heighten anyway.

Yes a Wizard would take Heighten for these but a Wizard 4/5 extra Feats AND isn't taking Heighten JUST for these either.

There's no low level spells that need Heightening.

I said this depends on how you use spells with a Warlock but I will go through this Exercise with you.

Level 1 Spells: Up to +5 DC
Bane
Charm Person
Hypnotism
Otto's Irrisitable Dance
Sleep
Cause Fear
Doom
Ooze Puppet

Level 2 Spells: Up to +4 DC
Suggestion
Command Undead
Ghoul Touch
Ray of Exhaustion
Scare

Level 3 Spells: Up to +3 DC
Banishment
Charm Monster
Deep Slumber
Bestow Curse
Fear

Level 4 Spells: Up to +2 DC - If using these spells only Embolden would be a better feat for cost vs benefit
Dismissal
Hold Monster
Symbol of Persuasion
Symbol of Fear
Flesh to Stone

Level 5 Spells:Up to +1 DC - If using these spells only Embolden would be a better feat for cost vs benefit
Hold Person, Mass
Mind Fog
Symbol of Stunning
Circle of Death
Control Undead
Finger of Death
Undeath to Death

Then there are the pact Spells

1st Level
Command
Entangle

2nd Level
Blindness

3rd Level
Slow
Phantasmal Killer

4th Level
Dominate Person

5th Level
Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Mass Suggestion


As for the comment about not needing Height for Low level spells just look at the list above. There are both common and good utility spells that benefit from Heighten in all of those. Sure spells like Sleep, Deep Slumber and Slow are not common spells to use, but PK are more common Hold Monster.

Again as I said and will say again, it is totally up to how you use spells for your warlock. You have to keep in mind that not all players play constitution based warlocks, some actually do care about their DCs. To help clear this up, if you have to pick between Embolden and Heighten you have to weigh a flat 2 DC vs increasing all used spells to Level 6 (+1 to +5 DC) and that again is dependent on you as the player and how you want to use spells.

[Enoach]

Heighten mainly webs and tentacles if u really need 2-4 more dcs

...

I don't believe Heighten works with Evard's Black Tentacles - I know Embolden does

I Forgot about Enhancements of the Tainted Scholar adding Web to the Warlocks Spell Book. That is also a good reason to have Heighten

[FranOhmsford]

I don't believe Heighten works with Evard's Black Tentacles - I know Embolden does

Heighten does not work with Evards.


I Forgot about Enhancements of the Tainted Scholar adding Web to the Warlocks Spell Book. That is also a good reason to have Heighten

Why the heck would a Warlock need Web when they have Evards which does damage as well?

And frankly I've never been impressed with Web - I've had to TR multiple Wizards who HAD Heighten {Both PM and AM} at 20 and getting there was painful!}.



Again as I said and will say again, it is totally up to how you use spells for your warlock. You have to keep in mind that not all players play constitution based warlocks, some actually do care about their DCs. To help clear this up, if you have to pick between Embolden and Heighten you have to weigh a flat 2 DC vs increasing all used spells to Level 6 (+1 to +5 DC) and that again is dependent on you as the player and how you want to use spells.

My Locks are CHA based Con is secondary or even tertiary behind Int!

That maybe why I don't need Heighten for my Disco Balls, Mass Holds etc.!

[FranOhmsford]

I said this depends on how you use spells with a Warlock but I will go through this Exercise with you.

Level 1 Spells: Up to +5 DC
Bane
Charm Person
Hypnotism
Otto's Irrisitable Dance
Sleep
Cause Fear
Doom
Ooze Puppet

Think you meant Resistable as Irresistable does not have a save in the first place and is a Max Level Spell!

Hypnotism is according to these forums used for its debuffing effect which means meta-ing it in the first place is a waste of SPs.

Ooze Puppet is so situational it's not worth wasting a slot on - That's another thing...Warlocks don't have a lot of slots and Jump/Nightshield are must haves!

The rest are all pretty useless past the first few levels anyway.


Level 2 Spells: Up to +4 DC
Suggestion
Command Undead
Ghoul Touch
Ray of Exhaustion
Scare

No - Wouldn't take any of these and waste a Lvl 2 Spell Slot!

Blur and Invis are must haves!


Level 3 Spells: Up to +3 DC
Banishment
Charm Monster
Deep Slumber
Bestow Curse
Fear

Again not taking any of these over DDoor and Displacement {IF/WHEN I take the Displacement enhancement I'm going to swap in Haste}.


Level 4 Spells: Up to +2 DC - If using these spells only Embolden would be a better feat for cost vs benefit
Dismissal
Hold Monster
Symbol of Persuasion
Symbol of Fear
Flesh to Stone

Uh...EVARDS!

Also Teleport and True Seeing!


Level 5 Spells:Up to +1 DC - If using these spells only Embolden would be a better feat for cost vs benefit
Hold Person, Mass
Mind Fog
Symbol of Stunning
Circle of Death
Control Undead
Finger of Death
Undeath to Death

Finally we get to a level where we have nothing required ahead of these.

Though I personally like having Tenser's my second choice is generally Mind Fog.


Then there are the pact Spells

1st Level
Command
Entangle

Lol


2nd Level
Blindness

HAHAHA!


3rd Level
Slow
Phantasmal Killer

PK is decent IF you're Svirfneblin but otherwise not worth bothering with.

Slow is a waste of space!


4th Level
Dominate Person

Single Target = Meh.


5th Level
Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Mass Suggestion


My Disco Balls work fine generally so I'd assume so would Mass Suggestion being the same School.



1) Warlocks only get 2 Spells per Level.

2) Some of these spells are single target with higher level Mass Versions - I'll take the Mass thank you.

3) Warlocks are so strong pre level 20 that it's an utter waste to take low level CC you're never going to use.

[Enoach]

{snip}...

As you can see by your responses people play Warlock differently. Choosing Heighten vs Just going with Embolden is based on what spells you pick and use while leveling to match your play style.

For some they will lean towards only using the upper level spells where the cost of Heighten vs benefit is rather high, while others will use the lower level spells where the cost vs benefit of Heighten is much better.

The trick is doing your own determination.

For you the focus is AoE, but that is not the only way to play even though reading the forums you would get the impression if you don't have AoE abilities you can't play this game.

Examples: of a few differences in spell choices
I don't take Blur, Teleport or True Seeing.

At lower levels I'll use a wand for Blur until Displacement is an option

Teleport works just as well from a scroll

True Seeing is less useful to me as a DC focused Warlock because I don't use physical melee/ranged attacks. I do carry scrolls for times it will help find hidden doors or it can be used by those in the party that do use physical melee/ranged attacks

Evard's is a good spell used by Warlocks. It's slow effect which does not have a SR check helps a lot. However, the damage and grapple aspects of it does have an SR part. Where Web does not have SR and has the potential of stopping a mob's progress. The Spell Penetration of a Warlock can be tough.

Additionally, I've found most don't actually spend time understanding the spells available to them and tend to stick with what is "preferred". Sometimes the right spell for the job is not the popular spell.

Weigh the options, pick the one that works best for your playstyle. Be it; Heighten, Embolden or Both.

[Blastyswa]

As you can see by your responses people play Warlock differently. Choosing Heighten vs Just going with Embolden is based on what spells you pick and use while leveling to match your play style.

For some they will lean towards only using the upper level spells where the cost of Heighten vs benefit is rather high, while others will use the lower level spells where the cost vs benefit of Heighten is much better.

The trick is doing your own determination.

For you the focus is AoE, but that is not the only way to play even though reading the forums you would get the impression if you don't have AoE abilities you can't play this game.

Examples: of a few differences in spell choices
I don't take Blur, Teleport or True Seeing.

At lower levels I'll use a wand for Blur until Displacement is an option

Teleport works just as well from a scroll

True Seeing is less useful to me as a DC focused Warlock because I don't use physical melee/ranged attacks. I do carry scrolls for times it will help find hidden doors or it can be used by those in the party that do use physical melee/ranged attacks

Evard's is a good spell used by Warlocks. It's slow effect which does not have a SR check helps a lot. However, the damage and grapple aspects of it does have an SR part. Where Web does not have SR and has the potential of stopping a mob's progress. The Spell Penetration of a Warlock can be tough.

Additionally, I've found most don't actually spend time understanding the spells available to them and tend to stick with what is "preferred". Sometimes the right spell for the job is not the popular spell.

Weigh the options, pick the one that works best for your playstyle. Be it; Heighten, Embolden or Both.

I mostly still agree with Fran's evaluation of this; most level 3 and below warlock spells (The one that benefit more from heighten than embolden) I haven't realistically seen anyone use for years (Hypnotism, Sleep, Charm Spells, Ghoul Touch, single target debuffs). I do agree that if the build plays with web a lot (Evard's doesn't have a 100% uptime, while web's is >100%) heighten can be helpful.

[FranOhmsford]

For you the focus is AoE, but that is not the only way to play even though reading the forums you would get the impression if you don't have AoE abilities you can't play this game.

AoE Builds are currently a way stronger base than Single Target Builds - That's just a Fact!

Another Fact however is that I'm starting to see the return of the Monkcher/Shuricannon which are very definitely not AoE builds {Sorry but Imp. Precise Shot does not count as AoE!}.
Wolves are also super strong still.
And Shiradis too.
Not to forget Rogue Mechs.

Note the "Super Builds" are all single Target! {Even the Super Warlock Build favoured by Elitists is the Single Target Souleater NOT the ES Auralock which they denigrate!}.


Examples: of a few differences in spell choices
I don't take Blur, Teleport or True Seeing.

At lower levels I'll use a wand for Blur until Displacement is an option

Teleport works just as well from a scroll

True Seeing is less useful to me as a DC focused Warlock because I don't use physical melee/ranged attacks. I do carry scrolls for times it will help find hidden doors or it can be used by those in the party that do use physical melee/ranged attacks

So you have Displacement on 100% uptime do you?
And Wands/Scrolls are too easily Dispelled and don't last anywhere near as long!

You've given the reasons for taking True Seeing.

I'll give you that a Teleport Scroll works just as well but I have enough problems with inventory without adding another one.


Evard's is a good spell used by Warlocks. It's slow effect which does not have a SR check helps a lot. However, the damage and grapple aspects of it does have an SR part. Where Web does not have SR and has the potential of stopping a mob's progress. The Spell Penetration of a Warlock can be tough.

Warlocks have minimal SPs compared to other Arcanes - I'm not sure how you can justify fully Heightened Webs on top of Evards?


Additionally, I've found most don't actually spend time understanding the spells available to them and tend to stick with what is "preferred". Sometimes the right spell for the job is not the popular spell.

But 99% of the time the popular spell is popular for a reason!


Weigh the options, pick the one that works best for your playstyle. Be it; Heighten, Embolden or Both.

Feats are at a Premium - Heighten is not needed for a Lock - You'd be better off taking Enlarge or Spell Pen or Augment Summoning if you have a spare Feat after taking the required ones {pretty much only possible on a Human!}.

Embolden is outright better because it works on all DC based Spells!

While this metamagic feat is active, you gain +2 to the DC of all spells with DCs, but they consume 10 additional spell points.
Passive: +140 Maximum Spell Points.
As you can see; it also gives a decent SP boost for a Lock.


I like Heighten - I take it on Wizards as a matter of course.
But it's not a necessity for a Lock and be fair is pretty far down the list.

[KoobTheProud]

For solo Warlocks the Survive-it-all build works really well especially in EE and LE where damage can spike rapidly due to champions.

Race: Any race that has access to the Arcane Fluidity racial enhancement to give a permanent -15% to Arcane Spell Failure.

Heroic feats: Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Shield Proficency, Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell.

Whatever you want in terms of equipment at Heroic levels because Warlocks cakewalk Heroic in almost any configuration. I recommend Fleshshaper's Brigandine medium armor at 14 but you really don't need it. A Heroic Skyvault Shield is also nice but not required. You're going to use Master's Touch off of scrolls for the Tower Shield proficency required to make best use of the Skyvault Shield. You're going to twist Legendary Shield Mastery from Unyielding Sentinel into the build in Epic levels.

You're going to split enhancements roughly 43 Enlightened Spirit, 32 Tainted Scholar, 4 racial and 1 in Soul Eater for the +5 Universal Spellpower. At first you probably want to take Shining Through for the temporary hitpoints buffer but after you learn the build it's optional and you'll find better things to do with the AP's. You'll take the Medium Armor Proficiency enhancement in ES until you switch to Heavy Armor, which can be done as early as 20 if you have a Skyvault Shield from Heroic levels. If not then you keep using any good Medium Armor with a +15 Spell Agility Augment in it plus a Heavy Shield until 26 then get Shadow Dragonplate Armor with a +15 Spell Agility Augment and an Epic Elite Skyvault Shield. At 28 upgrade the Shadow Dragonplate Armor to Shadow Guardian for the Epic Damage Resistance.

This build is completely survivable on the first life for a solo player in almost all non-raid content in the game.

You're going to be a two headed threat, with Enlightened Spirit AE blasting plus Evard's Black Tentacles for packs and Tainted Scholar Enervating Shadow and Chain blasting for fights where you just can't stand toe-to-toe with the dynamic the fight presents. You're going to outlast everything you come up against and you can stand toe-to-toe with almost any non-endboss mob in the game using Otto's Irresistible Dance plus Dark Delirium once you've whittled down their adds . All the CC's in question have no save involved so you can basically ignore casting based feats in favor of defense based feats.

Epic feats are a series of choices that will change as you become more familiar with the game. Taking Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast and Intensify Spell is not a bad way to start out but there are more powerful options once you've gotten used to how Warlocks play.

[Enoach]

...

Actual on the Displacement comment - I have Displacement up during combat, and Lesser Displacement Gear for the rest of the time. Base level wands are short term, the ones with additional levels last a little longer. As for inventory space, we have different ideas of what it is for. And as I pointed out I don't melee with my Warlock so True Seeing is only needed when it will help a party member or if it can help find something hidden.

I never said Heighten is required. I said one must evaluate their build and what they are using.

Even on a Wizard Heighten is not always necessary. If DCs are not a priority or if you simply plan on only using spells where DCs are important from Spell Level 7+ or it you are more inclined to spells that don't have Spell Levels (Mainly Epic ones)

I've met many a caster that ran with Heighten on and continued to not land any spells.

I simply disagree that blindly ignoring Heighten without review of how you plan on playing is effectively crippling potential. Again, if your DCs are good enough without it or if it is a high cost for little benefit to your build then you make that determination. I'm basically saying there are no absolutes in "best way to build". One must figure out what works best for them, which can be effected by build direction, gear and even the players you commonly game with.




@Blastyswa - I actually use those spells, but you can also find posts I've made about under used spells here in the forum too. I actually like much of the utility many of these spells provide that is missed by parts of the population. But again I'm not one that goes after the trend of must have the most AoE damage so spells like Hypnotism and the Fear based ones are ways I control the agro my Warlock engages with.

[Blastyswa]

@Blastyswa - I actually use those spells, but you can also find posts I've made about under used spells here in the forum too. I actually like much of the utility many of these spells provide that is missed by parts of the population. But again I'm not one that goes after the trend of must have the most AoE damage so spells like Hypnotism and the Fear based ones are ways I control the agro my Warlock engages with.

Good to know, I actually haven't found anyone else who uses those low level control spells. With no hostility intended and nothing but curiosity, what DC's do you get to on them, how well do they work for you in teamplay, and how high of difficulty can you use them in? I play pure wizards fairly frequently across my characters and TR frequently into wizard to play wizards through heroic levels (Personally one of my favorite experiences in the game) and while the low level CC spells also work well in heroics, I can never get them to be very effective in epics, or at least not as effective as just dropping web+mind fog+otto's sphere (I know I'm talking about wizards on a warlock thread, but this part of their function is the same). Can you actually effectively use hypnotism and the other spells in epic levels, and is it strictly on solo characters (My experience with hypnotism and other break on damage effects is that it's pretty useless if you're in a group, and my experience with fear which I last used probably 5 years ago was that it's more annoyance than benefit unless paired with something to keep them in place like web or otto's sphere, in which case the fear isn't needed.)?

[Enoach]

Good to know, I actually haven't found anyone else who uses those low level control spells. With no hostility intended and nothing but curiosity, what DC's do you get to on them, how well do they work for you in teamplay, and how high of difficulty can you use them in? I play pure wizards fairly frequently across my characters and TR frequently into wizard to play wizards through heroic levels (Personally one of my favorite experiences in the game) and while the low level CC spells also work well in heroics, I can never get them to be very effective in epics, or at least not as effective as just dropping web+mind fog+otto's sphere (I know I'm talking about wizards on a warlock thread, but this part of their function is the same). Can you actually effectively use hypnotism and the other spells in epic levels, and is it strictly on solo characters (My experience with hypnotism and other break on damage effects is that it's pretty useless if you're in a group, and my experience with fear which I last used probably 5 years ago was that it's more annoyance than benefit unless paired with something to keep them in place like web or otto's sphere, in which case the fear isn't needed.)?

The DCs are the same with heighten as any school with maximum spell level.

Now the Fear effect ones are better served when solo/shortman. In full groups there is less "appropriate" usage as it can slow progress down - such as the time I used Chill touch on a Wraith that needed to be killed and we had to wait for it to come back on the same side of the gate so we can kill it :). Fear effects also decrease saves. Many Fear spells also have a shaken on save effect, these spells are cheap debuffs when a mob can be feared (GH type effects stop this)

Keep in mind that I also utilize meta's differently too. Example, if I can AoE a reduction in saves and for that content with that reduction I can turn off Heighten and still land the spell, I have saved spell points. Of course this takes a bit of research and working to know if this type of strategy works for you as not everyone can have DCs that don't require Heighten when a debuff is provided, but I think many DC casters might be surprised to learn they actually don't need Heighten all the time.

With Hypnotism you have hit on the exact issue that it is broken with damage, Bard Fascinate has the same issue. So yes it is more effective in solo and short man groups. I use it mainly to thin out the groups. But I have also used these spells to slow down mobs as well. In a group run Hypnotism is a spell that can stop mobs from chasing another player, help melee catch up with mobs being kited or simply to stop archers in the back of the room from shooting while the party works on the melee.

For me I'm always looking for different ways to skin the cat so to speak and I've found several of these under used spells actually solve problems that people complain about. It is just a matter of giving them a serious try.

[FranOhmsford]

And as I pointed out I don't melee with my Warlock so True Seeing is only needed when it will help a party member or if it can help find something hidden.

I don't particularly want to keep going round in circles so I'll just reply to this one bit....

Warlocks are not Wizards, Warlocks cannot simply go to a shrine and change Spells - Melee or even Ranged Party Members being thankful for True Seeing is a lot more common than you're giving credit for and Secret Doors are in most quests.

A Wizard or Sorc probably can't fit in True Seeing till later levels because of it being the same level as Recon, Otiluke's, Chain Lightning, GH, Disintegrate and Tensers.
But for a Cleric or Soul I'd say it could be as high as 3rd on the list for its level behind only Raise Dead and DP. {I go for Mass Prot Elements and Mass Spell Res over the single target versions.}.
And for a Warlock I have no trouble taking it over the competition at its level.

[Enoach]

I don't particularly want to keep going round in circles so I'll just reply to this one bit....

Warlocks are not Wizards, Warlocks cannot simply go to a shrine and change Spells - Melee or even Ranged Party Members being thankful for True Seeing is a lot more common than you're giving credit for and Secret Doors are in most quests.

A Wizard or Sorc probably can't fit in True Seeing till later levels because of it being the same level as Recon, Otiluke's, Chain Lightning, GH, Disintegrate and Tensers.
But for a Cleric or Soul I'd say it could be as high as 3rd on the list for its level behind only Raise Dead and DP. {I go for Mass Prot Elements and Mass Spell Res over the single target versions.}.
And for a Warlock I have no trouble taking it over the competition at its level.

So as I pointed out from the beginning we have different priorities and value on spells and backpack space. I never said your choices were wrong, I said mine were different.

[Qaz1qaz1qa]

Wow this is a great discussion and I have learned much from both angles.
So I see the value of Enoach's point.
My question about Heighten and Quicken comes from an ES myopic view (and I think I am not alone). But after reading the various input from many different players and styles I see that broadening my perspective there is a place for each Meta.

So perhaps a case of an under used less popular spell being underestimated.
One thing I noticed is that confusion is a single target spell that actually works on the crowd. On approach to a group I will use my PL confusion feat spell on a target near center or perhaps front line of a bottle neck in the area. Wow does that one draw agro! It becomes my little meat shield while I lay waste. And the advantage to it is that, compared to charm or Thrall, I can damage it and my healing hireling (when ever I have one) wont heal the thing.


I use Quicken mainly for Edwards for the occasion I am in combat and need to cast it. I have not a single point in concentration. After reading how concentration works and noticing my buffing it as high as possible in my past life and still getting way too many fails I dumped it for quicken, which did the trick perfectly.
Quicken also does me some good on the SLA like Command and Stunning Blast (mainly took to get Greater Heroism from Core) and both of these can use Quicken and Heighten for free.
That brings me to the Efficient Heighten Enhancement. I find it interesting that that is the Meta focused on by that tree. That is the tree that also grants Web as well as many other spells that are not SLA. In fact each core gives a spell. So for those who Heighten Web this enhancement justifies it well. I might try that combo. I have seen a party member in Slave Lords doing a great job of CC with web. After discussing it with him I reevaluated my use of Web. But as of yet never heightened it.


As for other spells that come from feats I prefer to pass on them. For me I just cant get myself to justify spending a feat on a single target spell unrelated to my main damage. (except perhaps Glacial wrath) Sure Rune does oodles of damage to a SINGLE target. Yes even more than one single pulse does to a single target. But my pulse and blasts do damage to many targets. And that damage added up is quite significant. In 15 seconds yes my aura and pulse can far exceed the damage of Ruin. And feats that increase that damage make it that much better. Feats like Scion of Celestia and Earth, Intensify, epic Eldritch...
I had Hell ball and I like that it was AOE ranged. But wow that thing never hit at range. I need to use up close to hit. And it still ate at my SP I needed for Evards.
Perhaps I will just try Ruin this time around and see. Always have the free feat swap quest.