Turbine's Secret Plans to Fix Druids

[bennyson]

The Dethek Runestone

http://ddowiki.com/images/Dethek_Runestone.png

Special Effect for Druids:

"Stone Paws: While in Animal Form, Gain +2[W] and DR 15/Adamantine.


Hide of the Fallen

http://ddowiki.com/images/Hide_of_the_Fallen_%28level_28%29.jpg

Special Effect for Druids:

"Druidic Survival Mastery: While in Wild Shape, you receive a Primal bonus to damage equal to half the number of Wilderness Lore feats you have."


Its now fact, Turbine is giving Druids good items in preparation for the Grand Return of the Druid class!

[AbyssalMage]

The Dethek Runestone

http://ddowiki.com/images/Dethek_Runestone.png

Special Effect for Druids:

"Stone Paws: While in Animal Form, Gain +2[W] and DR 15/Adamantine.


Hide of the Fallen

http://ddowiki.com/images/Hide_of_the_Fallen_%28level_28%29.jpg

Special Effect for Druids:

"Druidic Survival Mastery: While in Wild Shape, you receive a Primal bonus to damage equal to half the number of Wilderness Lore feats you have."


Its now fact, Turbine is giving Druids good items in preparation for the Grand Return of the Druid class!
Return? Didn't realize they ever left.
More accurately would be, Turbine is making preparation to fix Druid Animal form after all of these years.

[FranOhmsford]

Get back to me when they make it possible to make a Viable Wolf Druid without having to have Monk levels!

[PermaBanned]

More accurately would be, Turbine is making preparation to fix Druid Animal form after all of these years.Compared to the level of power held by the "feature" rich Broken Wolf builds, Turbines going to "fix" them all right...

...like you would "fix" a house pet ^^

[FranOhmsford]

Compared to the level of power held by the "feature" rich Broken Wolf builds, Turbines going to "fix" them all right...

...like you would "fix" a house pet ^^

Exactly!

Both those item effects the OP posted will aid Multiclassed Wolves just the same as Pure Wolves - And Pures are ludicrously far behind Multis anyway!

So the Multi becomes even more broken while the Pure still doesn't break even!

And lol at Bear!


Same effect as with Monks themselves - Pure Monk is barely playable now {3 E-TRs on a 1st Life Monk AND had to swap him to Earth Stance, Back at Lvl 25 and there's still no way he can cope with even the lowest level EEs!} because of all the Nerfs and proxy nerfs aimed at reducing the number of people splashing Monk!

[mezzorco]

Get back to me when they make it possible to make a Viable Wolf Druid without having to have Monk levels!

Get back to me when they make it possible to make a Viable Bear Druid.

[FranOhmsford]

Get back to me when they make it possible to make a Viable Bear Druid.

I'll get back to you sometime in the 25th century then!

[legendkilleroll]

Same effect as with Monks themselves - Pure Monk is barely playable now {3 E-TRs on a 1st Life Monk AND had to swap him to Earth Stance, Back at Lvl 25 and there's still no way he can cope with even the lowest level EEs!} because of all the Nerfs and proxy nerfs aimed at reducing the number of people splashing Monk!

Sigh, just because you cant do it doesnt mean its barely playable, i dont have a pure monk but ive saw lots of them do fine in EE content

Most of time it doesnt matter, if the person playing the char is good and actually knows what there doing, sure some builds are alot easier and broken than others.

[slarden]

Exactly!

Both those item effects the OP posted will aid Multiclassed Wolves just the same as Pure Wolves - And Pures are ludicrously far behind Multis anyway!

So the Multi becomes even more broken while the Pure still doesn't break even!

And lol at Bear!


Same effect as with Monks themselves - Pure Monk is barely playable now {3 E-TRs on a 1st Life Monk AND had to swap him to Earth Stance, Back at Lvl 25 and there's still no way he can cope with even the lowest level EEs!} because of all the Nerfs and proxy nerfs aimed at reducing the number of people splashing Monk!

That is often the case because of how few levels is needed to take advantage of enhancement trees. Going the other direction and making pure always the best is equally problematic and kills diversity.

A pure 20 druid wolf still benefits from 30% attack speed and another 30% stacking attack speed from single weapon fighting with an orb (not sure if that ends up being 160% attack speed or 169% attack speed but it's alot of attacks). The ability to bypass alignment damage is really nice for the new content. They have access to great self-healing - arguably the best in the game for any melee. The knockdown effect is quite nice.

Pure 20 druid has the most effective cc available for the new amarath content. In fact druids are one of the few classes that can make a powerful attack like earthquake work while having high dps. Not in all content, but in almost all.

A pure monk 20 may not be top-tier melee like it used to be, but they do fine in difficult content - much better than many casting builds.

[FranOhmsford]

That is often the case because of how few levels is needed to take advantage of enhancement trees. Going the other direction and making pure always the best is equally problematic and kills diversity.

A pure 20 druid wolf still benefits from 30% attack speed and another 30% stacking attack speed from single weapon fighting with an orb (not sure if that ends up being 160% attack speed or 169% attack speed but it's alot of attacks). The ability to bypass alignment damage is really nice for the new content. They have access to great self-healing - arguably the best in the game for any melee. The knockdown effect is quite nice.

Pure 20 druid has the most effective cc available for the new amarath content. In fact druids are one of the few classes that can make a powerful attack like earthquake work while having high dps. Not in all content, but in almost all.

A pure monk 20 may not be top-tier melee like it used to be, but they do fine in difficult content - much better than many casting builds.

No-one's asking for Pure to be out and above Multi - Just for balance!

A Pure Monk isn't top-tier melee IT ISN'T EVEN CLOSE!
Heck a Pure Fighter does better than a Pure Monk!

And Casting builds are fully dependent on multiple past lives - Not saying this is a good thing either but the Devs have dug themselves into a hole with their insistence on making DCs not worthwhile unless maxed!

[Algreg]

Exactly!

Both those item effects the OP posted will aid Multiclassed Wolves just the same as Pure Wolves - And Pures are ludicrously far behind Multis anyway!

So the Multi becomes even more broken while the Pure still doesn't break even!

And lol at Bear!


Same effect as with Monks themselves - Pure Monk is barely playable now {3 E-TRs on a 1st Life Monk AND had to swap him to Earth Stance, Back at Lvl 25 and there's still no way he can cope with even the lowest level EEs!} because of all the Nerfs and proxy nerfs aimed at reducing the number of people splashing Monk!

Monk in EE is tough, but - according to your own words - aren´t you struggling in EE on any class? So how is that a means of measurement?

[FranOhmsford]

Monk in EE is tough, but - according to your own words - aren´t you struggling in EE on any class? So how is that a means of measurement?

Come on - Isn't it obvious that if I'm struggling on EE on any class that I'm using my experiences in EN and EH and extrapolating therefrom?

I've got Pure Fighters {1st Life with no E-TRs or Destinies!} that are having a far easier time in ENs than Lieuk had when he hit 20 for the first time!

Lieuk is getting to the point now {after 3 E-TRs and with all destinies maxed so he can remain in GMoF} where the other day I was able to do the Puzzle in EE-VoN 5 Solo without ever being in danger of dying.
BUT
When my Warlock friend lost his bearings and jumped down into the middle of Trog Hell in EE Garl's Tomb I spent over an hour trying to reach him with 3 release and returns before giving up!
Only hope I had was that I could get EIN maxed and kill off 2-3 of them at a time! {Of course I'd inevitably die immediately afterwards!}.

Both of the above examples I was Lvl 25! {Oh and Garret was next to useless in EE Garl's Tomb!}.


Before EE Garl's Tomb my Warlock friend and I ran through EE Tobias without trouble but again that's more to do with him {Warlock helped too} than with me {I might have done noticeably better on other characters - Frankly the completion was guaranteed anyway due to who I was running with.}.

[PermaBanned]

Get back to me when they make it possible to make a Viable Wolf Druid without having to have Monk levels!Unless they've already attended to certain "features" (it's been a few updates since I last ran a Wolf build), splashing Monk was just not as nifty as 11/6/3 Druid/Ranger/Fighter in heavy (Ftr gives proficiency, and Dragonscale is non-metal) armor w/Defender Stance - sick DPS + more survivability than Monk could offer.


Same effect as with Monks themselves - Pure Monk is barely playable now {3 E-TRs on a 1st Life Monk AND had to swap him to Earth Stance, Back at Lvl 25 and there's still no way he can cope with even the lowest level EEs!} because of all the Nerfs and proxy nerfs aimed at reducing the number of people splashing Monk!Am I safe in guessing you build your Monks as... erm... Franilly as you build your Clerics? I've seen pure Monks handle themselves in @Level EEs just fine - it's about playing to their strengths while maintaining awareness of their weaknesses. But that's getting away from Druid animal forms quite a bit now, isn't it?

[Cantor]

Come on - Isn't it obvious that if I'm struggling on EE on any class that I'm using my experiences in EN and EH and extrapolating therefrom?



You can't extrapolate from EN/EH to EE. You just can't. With the monk example, you can tear up EH when you stun everything that's not red, in EE not gonna stun everything and you die if paper thin. For casters in EH you can just waltz through instakilling everything, then go in EE and everything saves. You just can't compare because EE is not like lower difficulty.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Druids failing in this game is the lack of synergy within the class itself. A shield here and a cape there (which doesnt even work btw) isnt going to fix them.

[FranOhmsford]

You can't extrapolate from EN/EH to EE. You just can't. With the monk example, you can tear up EH when you stun everything that's not red, in EE not gonna stun everything and you die if paper thin. For casters in EH you can just waltz through instakilling everything, then go in EE and everything saves. You just can't compare because EE is not like lower difficulty.

You have a point BUT it's still possible to extrapolate as a Monk that can't cope with EH has absolutely no chance in EE!
A Fighter that CAN cope in EH however also may not be able to cope in EE but just the knowledge that the Fighter can cope in EH means that Fighter is clearly better than Monk in the current game!

In fact thanks to PRR/MRR the Pure Fighter played by the same player as the Pure Monk will be better in EEs I'd guess at least 75% of the time {with the other 25% being when the player in question is absolutely uber at playing Monks!


It doesn't matter how good a player I am vs how good a player you are because it's the same player playing both classes!


Now I'm not saying that Fighter isn't also in need of an update!
Just that Monk is in the more dire need!

[FranOhmsford]

Unless they've already attended to certain "features" (it's been a few updates since I last ran a Wolf build), splashing Monk was just not as nifty as 11/6/3 Druid/Ranger/Fighter in heavy (Ftr gives proficiency, and Dragonscale is non-metal) armor w/Defender Stance - sick DPS + more survivability than Monk could offer.

Ranger splash isn't in the same ballpark as Monk splash was pre PRR/MRR but again we're talking about a splash giving out far more power than Pure gets!

Monk may not be THE splash for Druids anymore but I feel exactly the same way about having to take 6 levels of Ranger to make a viable Druid as I do about having to take 6 lvls of Monk!

It should be a CHOICE!
NOT A REQUIREMENT!

[Lonnbeimnech]

Ranger splash isn't in the same ballpark as Monk splash was pre PRR/MRR but again we're talking about a splash giving out far more power than Pure gets!

Monk may not be THE splash for Druids anymore but I feel exactly the same way about having to take 6 levels of Ranger to make a viable Druid as I do about having to take 6 lvls of Monk!

It should be a CHOICE!
NOT A REQUIREMENT!

only because they didn't have swf back then either.

[PermaBanned]

You have a point BUT it's still possible to extrapolate as a Monk that can't cope with EH has absolutely no chance in EE!With the exception of DC focused builds, it's not about the class/build nearly as much as it is the player. The difficulty scale goes something like this: EC > EN -> EH -------> EE. While some of teh_uberest need not adjust their facerolling tactics from EH to EE, most players I know do need to adjust. If you (or I or anyone else) as a player, on characters built the way you (or I or anyone else) likes to build them can't handle EH reliably, that doesn't mandate the Class or build in question can't handle EE - there is no class (with the current exception of DC casters in the absolute latest content - at least for now) that can't handle EE when played by a player that knows how to adjust their strategies for increased difficulty. Sure, some classes (& especially builds!) have innate advantages that make EE more manageable, but to say that because you can't, it can't, is pure BS.


Ranger splash isn't in the same ballpark as Monk splash was pre PRR/MRR but again we're talking about a splash giving out far more power than Pure gets!

Monk may not be THE splash for Druids anymore but I feel exactly the same way about having to take 6 levels of Ranger to make a viable Druid as I do about having to take 6 lvls of Monk!

It should be a CHOICE!
NOT A REQUIREMENT!See, there you go getting it wrong again... It was not a question of Monk or Ranger Pre-PRR - you splashed both; just as post-Armor UP the Fighter splash adds greater survivability than Monk. Regardless, you don't need the splash to be viable, you need it to be min/maxed uber (unless/until fixed ofc). The whole point of splashing is giving up X to get Y - and if done right the value of Y is greater than the value of X. It was almost as true in PnP as it is in DDO (though ofc DDO has even less tradeoffs), and there's even many RL examples where 80% of X + 20% of Y gives a better end result than 100% of X or Y. No matter how much you !!!!!! about it, them's the facts Jack!

[IronClan]

It's funny this subject and the druidf/ranger split came up last night in a DoJ on Thelanis, I mean no ones mentioned OP wolf builds in months, what are the chances.

Last I heard they were saving Druid and wolf "fixes" Nerfs... nerfixes... whatever it is they do for kinda last thing because of how complicated the animal forms issue is.

The question I have is; at this point now that we live in a post Barbarian passive self healing and Paladin hs, and now Warlock filled DDO, is a wolf form druid even that OP any more? Someone who's opinion I trust on Thelanis called the Druid ranger thing pretty broken. I will admit I don't have one myself.

[Lonnbeimnech]

It's funny this subject and the druidf/ranger split came up last night in a DoJ on Thelanis, I mean no ones mentioned OP wolf builds in months, what are the chances.

Last I heard they were saving Druid and wolf "fixes" Nerfs... nerfixes... whatever it is they do for kinda last thing because of how complicated the animal forms issue is.

The question I have is; at this point now that we live in a post Barbarian passive self healing and Paladin hs, and now Warlock filled DDO, is a wolf form druid even that OP any more? Someone who's opinion I trust on Thelanis called the Druid ranger thing pretty broken. I will admit I don't have one myself.

It has a very very fast attack speed, about 8 times a second. So things like balanced attacks and mortal fear proc all the time, anything oranged named or lower is demolished. Against red and purple names, you have dps similar to a barbarian.

[PermaBanned]

The question I have is; at this point now that we live in a post Barbarian passive self healing and Paladin hs, and now Warlock filled DDO, is a wolf form druid even that OP any more? Someone who's opinion I trust on Thelanis called the Druid ranger thing pretty broken.Due to things working together (via some mild finagling) that explicitly state they should not - and do not for all non-animal form characters - yes, they're absolutely broken (hence the moniker "Broken Wolf").

As to their level of OPness compared to other "OP" builds... The margin has certainly narrowed, and I'd suspect that in at least a few cases it may take math to "prove" which is top dog as my simple observations of other players in quests basically have it appearing that there's not much difference (in who kills what really fast) in most situations. It gets even stickier and more convoluted if your going to compare "OP" Ranged and Melee builds to eachother rather than just the "OP" Melee builds...

[Chai]

It's funny this subject and the druidf/ranger split came up last night in a DoJ on Thelanis, I mean no ones mentioned OP wolf builds in months, what are the chances.

Last I heard they were saving Druid and wolf "fixes" Nerfs... nerfixes... whatever it is they do for kinda last thing because of how complicated the animal forms issue is.

The question I have is; at this point now that we live in a post Barbarian passive self healing and Paladin hs, and now Warlock filled DDO, is a wolf form druid even that OP any more? Someone who's opinion I trust on Thelanis called the Druid ranger thing pretty broken. I will admit I don't have one myself.

Its still broken especially for single target DPS, but the CC is also dependable. The best way for them to "fix" the issue is to do the bug fix same update as the class revamp.

[IronClan]

Due to things working together (via some mild finagling) that explicitly state they should not - and do not for all non-animal form characters - yes, they're absolutely broken (hence the moniker "Broken Wolf").

As to their level of OPness compared to other "OP" builds... The margin has certainly narrowed, and I'd suspect that in at least a few cases it may take math to "prove" which is top dog as my simple observations of other players in quests basically have it appearing that there's not much difference (in who kills what really fast) in most situations. It gets even stickier and more convoluted if your going to compare "OP" Ranged and Melee builds to eachother rather than just the "OP" Melee builds...

Yeah I mean for what it's worth that would be my take as well, "obliterates EE trash mobs" doesn't have too many levels of nuance to it.


Its still broken especially for single target DPS, but the CC is also dependable. The best way for them to "fix" the issue is to do the bug fix same update as the class revamp.

That was the plan last year, makes sense theoretically by the time they buff the remaining underperformers wolf form might be not that OP and may be fixed more simply (like eliminating getting Shield DS and TWF off hand chance at the same time)... assuming they plan a difficulty re-balance once most classes are on comparative level of OP. or "viable" depending on what we're talking about.

I know people are skiddish about how much power they've added to the game, but they've outright said they can tweak mob damage % scaling without even restarting the servers (i.e. tweak a memory resident parameter) among other parameters like Hit points and attack and miss chances... if theoretically the balance pass has added say 20% more survival on average, and 30% more DPS to the players side of the equation, then theoretically increasing mobs PRR and base damage by 20% and 30% puts us right back where the game was when this started... Only instead of Casters ranged and Centered Kensei/Staff builds being the only EE viable builds we'll have every class being EE viable (in theory).

Now that said, Warlock's especially full ****** DPS ones are overall very glass cannon, which is clearly not true for Druids so I can see needing to fix the unintended stuff.