Time to kill some Kittens.

[Wulverine]

For real. Please not that rubberband mechanic that resets the mob HP and makes it unattackable for some seconds, for a quest objective relevant mob.

I'll kill a kitten if you put that in. Yes, this is a threat.


The rubberbanding of the Executioners in the "Defiler of the Just" raid is live as of now.

And it's worse than i thought. Can't really pull them anywhere, and accidentally pulling them away is a mess.

Adjust tactics accordingly :)

[Knight_slayer]

The rubberbanding of the Executions is in the Defiler of the Just raid as of now.

And it's worse than i thought. Can't really pull them anywhere, and accidental pulling away is a mess.

Adjust tactics accordingly :)

So the executioners that spawn in the middle must be killed in the middle? Where there is respawning trash! Man, I hope that is not the case.

[Wulverine]

So the executioners that spawn in the middle must be killed in the middle? Where there is respawning trash! Man, I hope that is not the case.

Yep, pretty much. Unless you're really good at knowing the max range until they leash back. Enjoy


This is about the range we've seen mobs leashing. I'm not joking lol, we saw this with a bunch of people.
http://i.imgur.com/rw8o8da.jpg

[Wizza]

Not the kittens, Eth, not the kittens! :(

Also: lol at Turbine. "This raid sucks but we will add one more mechanic that you will make players hate it even more"

[Paleus]

Would you be willing to adjust your response any?

I have a feline who is unfortunately not a kitten, but that I would be willing (so very willing) to add to your cause good sir.

[UurlockYgmeov]

http://www.bideawee.org/Media/Image/Brafton/It-s-kitten-season--Is-your-home-ready-for-the-arrival-of-your-new-pet-_16001188_800827146_0_0_14067751_500.jpg

[Sirea]

Ug, as if this was contributing in any real sense to the lag.

If Turbine worked in an ER, they'd be trying to use band-aids on severed limbs.

ETA: I'm assuming this was done for "performance issues", but I suppose it's possible that Turbine wanted to make this raid even more annoying.

[PermaBanned]

Has their adjustments at least reduced the lag? Is the leasing at least a good news/bad news kind of thing?

[Wulverine]

Has their adjustments at least reduced the lag? Is the leasing at least a good news/bad news kind of thing?

Too early to tell. And we've still seen some lag (in the bladeroom for example). That was on normal, but easily manageable. (3-4 seconds long iirc)
EE should be easiest to spot, i suppose. That always lagged worse.

[Wizza]

I also think this change makes this raid almost impossible to solo or duo, right? Unless you have some beastly DPS to clear 2 exes at the time and then trash from each portal.

Maybe someone will prove me wrong but wow, way to go Turbine.

[Nestroy]

Ug, as if this was contributing in any real sense to the lag.

If Turbine worked in an ER, they'd be trying to use band-aids on severed limbs.

ETA: I'm assuming this was done for "performance issues", but I suppose it's possible that Turbine wanted to make this raid even more annoying.

Well, it would help with "performance issues" either way. If not with the lag directly, less people playing = less lag. Easy. ;)

[Eth]

Did you think I was bluffing?

Poor kitty.

[valarmorghuliis]

I also think this change makes this raid almost impossible to solo or duo, right? Unless you have some beastly DPS to clear 2 exes at the time and then trash from each portal.

Maybe someone will prove me wrong but wow, way to go Turbine.

That's one of the reasons I really wanted to get my eh solo done last night

[Dandonk]

On topic of lag: Just did an 11-man EN run of defiler, was no noticeable lag in there for me (or the two guildies I was in there with). So at least so far, that part seems better.

[JOTMON]

The rubberbanding of the Executioners in the "Defiler of the Just" raid is live as of now.

And it's worse than i thought. Can't really pull them anywhere, and accidentally pulling them away is a mess.

Adjust tactics accordingly :)

http://media.giphy.com/media/WAmzFl5P9XyGQ/giphy.gif

[Djnnmajic]

Okay way to make something bad even worse. Saying the paths of the executioners was fixed is a joke the line of sight aggro mechanics is screwed, putting leashes on the executioners was just ********. At least when they had no leash you didnt have to worry about rubber banding mobs that are on a timer. So take the leashes off until you fix the real issue.......

[Kompera_Oberon]

Has their adjustments at least reduced the lag? Is the leasing at least a good news/bad news kind of thing?

The prior lack of leashing was never a part of the lag issue. It was added purely as a means to add difficulty to the raid by eliminating the tactic of pulling the assassins into a kill party at each portal. That tactic avoided the adds and the blades, and the devs can't have that when they spent so much time coding them into the raid, right?

[Eth]

The prior lack of leashing was never a part of the lag issue. It was added purely as a means to add difficulty to the raid by eliminating the tactic of pulling the assassins into a kill party at each portal. That tactic avoided the adds and the blades, and the devs can't have that when they spent so much time coding them into the raid, right?

It was more about avoiding additional trash mobs, since more stuff causes more lag. Since you have to fight abishai that spawn in the center right there now, you will get a lot more trash aggro'd.
You can still avoid getting hit by blades entirely, that's not an issue.

[barecm]

If I were to remake the raid, I would make it more like the heroic Abbot in that the party sends folks into teleporters that bring them to a fallen archon where they will have to defend against waves of executioners. Two different teleport entries., so the group decides who goes through each teleporter and who stays behind. The remaining party defends against waves of devil reinforcements similar to how devil assault plays out. You can keep the same fail parameters. Once that is completed, the entire group is teleported together where they ascend the stairs and go to the end fight area.

[Tscheuss]

If I were to remake the raid, I would make it more like the heroic Abbot in that the party sends folks into teleporters that bring them to a fallen archon where they will have to defend against waves of executioners. Two different teleport entries., so the group decides who goes through each teleporter and who stays behind. The remaining party defends against waves of devil reinforcements similar to how devil assault plays out. You can keep the same fail parameters. Once that is completed, the entire group is teleported together where they ascend the stairs and go to the end fight area.

Hush!

<.<

>.>

The soloists will hear you.:eek:

[barecm]

Hush!

<.<

>.>

The soloists will hear you.:eek:

I run other raids solo. I also have been around long enough to remember how much fun this game was when no raids were soloable. I just think that if Turbine is determined to give us a challenge, don't make it a fail due to game mechanics. I don't mind them creating difficult content, I do mind failing because a monster rubberbanded back with a sliver of life left and only a few seconds to kill it again.

[Tscheuss]

I run other raids solo. I also have been around long enough to remember how much fun this game was when no raids were soloable. I just think that if Turbine is determined to give us a challenge, don't make it a fail due to game mechanics. I don't mind them creating difficult content, I do mind failing because a monster rubberbanded back with a sliver of life left and only a few seconds to kill it again.

Ikr? Unleash the beast!

[SilkofDrasnia]

Leashing ....lol

[Rogann]

Ran this last night and it made me /facepalm.

[JOTMON]

Short tethering Executioners has screwed the raid.

Half the Executioners still run to the other side of the map aggro'ed on someone well out of line of sight.
get beat partway down on that side, because we cant tell that they ran over from the other side of the map until they suddenly white dot...
(always before they die but not before they throw a bunch of attacks in).
After they rubberband back to where they came from then proceed to run across the map again.
So that half of the party(or the one the Executioner is aggro'd on if you can figure out who that is) has to move from the other side to reign in the offending Executioner. tick tock you are on the timer clock...
Meanwhile moving across the map aggro's all the newly spawning random trash which then causes lag and more undesired mob aggro.

Archon's die, Reinforcements are scattered all over the map and quickly scale up their numbers.. doom...
Players get frustrated and lose interest in even bothering to try to do this raid on harder difficulties, just resign themselves to rinse/repeat norms.

[kmoustakas]

Where is that dog on the pc saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing'

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Ug, as if this was contributing in any real sense to the lag.


Seriously? Every single time new content involves large groups of mobs spawning- especially in a raid situation- it causes serverwide lag spikes.

Every. Single. Time.

That's the ridiculous part: most of the content of the last few years uses that same mechanic, instead of maybe recognizing the pattern of limitation and designing around it. Instead, we get the same garbage in a different skin with the same issues, and then 3-5 hotfixes that inevitably gut that same mechanic.

[icekinslayer]

If I were to remake the raid, I would make it more like the heroic Abbot in that the party sends folks into teleporters that bring them to a fallen archon where they will have to defend against waves of executioners. Two different teleport entries., so the group decides who goes through each teleporter and who stays behind. The remaining party defends against waves of devil reinforcements similar to how devil assault plays out. You can keep the same fail parameters. Once that is completed, the entire group is teleported together where they ascend the stairs and go to the end fight area.



Terrible idea, devils assault is an absolute snooze-fest, would hate to see that in a raid. Seriously, having the whole group go to one fallen archon, kill stuff, run to the other fallen archon, kill stuff, rinse and repeat is the easiest thing ever. This raid is just simple and is being way overthought for no reason at all.

[icekinslayer]

Where is that dog on the pc saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing'



http://s13.postimg.org/b2b1ay4b7/kitteh.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/b2b1ay4b7/)

[davmuzl]

Terrible idea, devils assault is an absolute snooze-fest, would hate to see that in a raid. Seriously, having the whole group go to one fallen archon, kill stuff, run to the other fallen archon, kill stuff, rinse and repeat is the easiest thing ever. This raid is just simple and is being way overthought for no reason at all.

Completly overthought when people can't beat it? But probably it's just because they are too bad? Maybe their casters DCs aren't high enough?
People who only run 20 completions on norm over adn over again just don't realise how bad the lag gets on higher difficulties...

[Memnir]

Where is that dog on the pc saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing'http://i.imgur.com/gyhn5dk.jpg

[Sirea]

Seriously? Every single time new content involves large groups of mobs spawning- especially in a raid situation- it causes serverwide lag spikes.

Every. Single. Time.

That's the ridiculous part: most of the content of the last few years uses that same mechanic, instead of maybe recognizing the pattern of limitation and designing around it. Instead, we get the same garbage in a different skin with the same issues, and then 3-5 hotfixes that inevitably gut that same mechanic.

I was referring specifically to the new leashing on the abishai executioners, not to the mob spawns in general.

[JOTMON]

Where is that dog on the pc saying 'I have no idea what I'm doing'

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5199ae91e4b0be74de0c45b4/520bcc0de4b0039df85ce0dd/520bcc0fe4b0144ea7ad0237/1376504848248/dog+and+cat+leash.jpg

[glmfw1]

I wonder if the Devs have ever considered the idea of Rubber-banding WITHOUT the HP reset?
In this raid there is a thematic logic for the monsters to go back to where they were, but no thematic logic for them to get a free heal at the same time.
The processing power for "retain HP value" can hardly be more lag inducing than "initiate white circle above head and start walkback animation, then replace current stats with clean slate". All you need is the coded version of "if distance from initial position > X, then replace current position with initial position" - monster TPs back to where it started, no other effects.

[Faltout]

I wonder if the Devs have ever considered the idea of Rubber-banding WITHOUT the HP reset?
In this raid there is a thematic logic for the monsters to go back to where they were, but no thematic logic for them to get a free heal at the same time.
The processing power for "retain HP value" can hardly be more lag inducing than "initiate white circle above head and start walkback animation, then replace current stats with clean slate". All you need is the coded version of "if distance from initial position > X, then replace current position with initial position" - monster TPs back to where it started, no other effects.
From what I understand the process goes like this:
> Time to rubberband
> walk towards initial position for a set amount of time
> destroy monster and queue the creation of a new one
> spawn a new monster after a set amount of time
> start monster script

This allows the monster's aggro list and any ongoing effects that would also affect its aggro to be dropped. Also I bet it allows special spawn conditions including the monster not spawning at all or spawning from the shadows or triggering some effect on spawn.