Full Metal Rogue...

[Enderoc]

Okay I am about to reincarnate and coming up with different ideas. This one in particular is a warforged who will use Falchions in full adamantine armor. I took enhancements and feats to add a total of +5 to all skills plus the plus 8 from Epic. Primarily to have the best UMD a forged could have as I bolstered Repair to max for scroll use. Obviously I have no need for evasion. If I need to jump through traps...I just remove the docent right? Or does it work like that? If not...does the feat provide natural armor? Should I go 5th tier harper for improved deception if my assassinations start to fail?


Full Metal Rogue
Rogue 20
True Neutral Warforged


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16 . . . +6. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16 . . . +6. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 16 . . . +6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6 . . . +6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . 1 .2. 3 .4. 5 .6. 7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Repair. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Disable . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Search. . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Listen. . . . . . . . . .1. 1 .3. 3 .3. 2 .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Diplo . . 3 .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Balance . 4 . . 1 .2. 1 .1. 1 . . . . . 1 .1. 3 .2. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Jump. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Hide. . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Move Si . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. 2 .3. 3 .3. 3 .4. 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .44 11 11 12 11 12 12 13 13 13 13 13 14 14 14 15 15 15 15 16
. . . . .44 11 11 12 12 12 12 13 13 13 13 14 14 14 14 15 15 15 15 16


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.3. . . . : Proficiency: Martial Weapon
.6. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
.9. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
10 Rogue. : Opportunist
12. . . . : Adamantine Body
13 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
15. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
16 Rogue. : Skill Mastery
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
19 Rogue. : Skill Mastery
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood


Enhancements (80 AP)

Warforged (7 AP)
Improved Fortification, Warforged Constitution, Improved Fortification II, Warforged Constitution II, Improved Fortification III

Assassin (39 AP)
Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality
Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
Execute, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes

Harper Agent (34 AP)
Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II, Intelligence
Harper Enchantment, Traveler's Toughness III, Strategic Combat, Awareness III
Versatile Adept III
Highly Skilled III, Versatile Adept III, Strategic Combat, Intelligence
Versatile Adept III, Intelligence

[Saekee]

Hi Enderoc, I can't imagine an assassin that does not take full advantage of knife spec and lethality. The assassin's weapon in DDO is the dual-wielded dagger (not enough named kukris).

[Enderoc]

Yes, well I am not shooting for DDO's version of Assassin here. In fact in Epic levels I think I will be focusing primarily on warforged and harper....dumping assassin almost completely. Almost...not all of it. If you can no longer assassinate you may as well try to hit harder...and with the warforged enhancements I can. You can stick with the knives if you like...most things out there are a bit tougher than steak though. Especially those immune to SA.

[Saekee]

Yes, well I am not shooting for DDO's version of Assassin here. In fact in Epic levels I think I will be focusing primarily on warforged and harper....dumping assassin almost completely. Almost...not all of it. If you can no longer assassinate you may as well try to hit harder...and with the warforged enhancements I can. You can stick with the knives if you like...most things out there are a bit tougher than steak though.

Have you considered the acrobat tree instead and using staves? With staff specialization instead of falchions?

If not, another option is going Tier 5 Harper for Improved Deception.

[Enderoc]

Have you considered the acrobat tree instead and using staves? With staff specialization instead of falchions?

If not, another option is going Tier 5 Harper for Improved Deception.
That is the idea once I get into Epics...to take tier 5 harper and then the enhancements for PA and two handed weapons from forged. I hate staves, they break too often. Sneaking around with knives or going Pew, Pew with crossbow is no fun either. The whole purpose is to max shadow dancer to open the arcane tree and rogue is the only thing that works with it....really in my opinion.

[Saekee]

That is the idea once I get into Epics...to take tier 5 harper and then the enhancements for PA and two handed weapons from forged. I hate staves, they break too often. Sneaking around with knives or going Pew, Pew with crossbow is no fun either. The whole purpose is to max shadow dancer to open the arcane tree and rogue is the only thing that works with it....really in my opinion.

If you go Elf, you can take the Valenar line of enhancements for falchions and even Dex to damage with great synergies with shadow dodge. You can also take the displacement shadow mark and extend it with Tier 5 Harper as well (I did this with my Twilight Blade build). That will give you great defenses--evasion, high dodge, displacement and incorporeal from SD.

[Enderoc]

Thing is I don't want weak HP and I am focusing on Harper anyway for the melee power. I can keep Charisma a dumpstat without much worry. An Elf Paladin or fighter was something I was looking into as well. I just need to get that shadowdancer out of the way.

[Saekee]

Thing is I don't want weak HP and I am focusing on Harper anyway for the melee power. I can keep Charisma a dumpstat without much worry. An Elf Paladin or fighter was something I was looking into as well. I just need to get that shadowdancer out of the way.
You will have less hit points but you will get hit less! It also lets you take full advantage of Tier 5 Harper. I was hitting about 6 min of displacement at cap and was lucky also to have the eChimera crown for an extra dragonmark use.
Elf: +4 hit and damage and 3% doublestrike, 3% dodge
Warforged: -3 to hit/+3 damage (with PA) and weapon attachment.

I also recommend precision over power attack which will aid in breaking fortification for crits and sneak attack damage. This, along with rogue opportunist, Shadowdancer and gear will work better than power attack--eliminating really the damage boost offered by warforged.

Then again, I love originality and applaud your approach--just suggesting alternatives for falchion.

[unbongwah]

If I need to jump through traps...I just remove the docent right? Or does it work like that?
No: as soon as you take Adamantine Body feat, you are treated as having hvy armor equipped at all times. Note that the feat itself provides +8 AC (similar to base full plate) and caps MDB to 1 and -5 ACP. Your docent improves the AC as well as other perks.

Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16 . . . +6. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16 . . . +6. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 16 . . . +6. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +6. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .6 . . . +6. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Since you're going the INT-based route, why so much STR? You should only need STR 13 to start for Power Atk; that would let you boost INT or CON instead.

Since you didn't take a rog capstone, is there any particular reason for pure rogue?

[Krelar]

Since you're going the INT-based route, why so much STR? You should only need STR 13 to start for Power Atk; that would let you boost INT or CON instead.


He needs 17 strength for GTHF

[the_one_dwarfforged]

i had considered doing something like this at one time.

my suggestions:

unless you need the bf pl, go human.

unless going twf, stop at 13 rogue.

unless using daggers, ignore assassin t5s.

one split that comes to mind is 13/6/1 rog/pal/ftr. (pal works nicely if you do need bf life), allows you to get stance for 25 prr and 6 str, pally saves, 6 levels will allow you to gte the kotc t5 cleave, saving you 2 feats, and by going str/cha also with rogue levels your umd will be hawtt. fighter for a feat and option of cheaper haste boost and extra boosts. rogue 13 for opportunist and either defensive roll or impro...um...whatever...and more sa dice, as well as the past life you need.


i havent given any thought to a rogue build like this in a while, and if i were to recommend one since their pass for a melee, id say twf pure, str/int with khops (could splash 2 fighter or 1 ftr 1 barb if not doing epics) or dex/int with daggers.

[mezzorco]

Falchion rogue is very interesting, but there's something awkward in your choices.

For example you're going pure but without capstone.
Also, going pure you miss Cleave and Great Cleave, while you have to take martial weapon proficiency.
Since you pick no capstone, you can go 18/2 fighter: falchion prof for free, two extra feats.
If you don't want to lose 1d6 SA and skill mastery, you can go 19/1 instead.

Most of acrobat tree works wonders with falchion. There are interesting things like 20% doublestrike, improved defensive roll, increased dodge cap.

How I see this build:

Thief-Acrobat (31 AP)


Staff Control, Stick Fighting, Tumbler, Kip Up, Cartwheel Charge
1. Sly Flourish, Fast Movement
2. Subtlety, Haste Boost
3. Improved Glancing Blows, Shadow Dodge
4. Improved Defensive Roll, No Mercy


Assassin (34 AP)


Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness
1. Heartseeker Poison, Sneak Attack Training
2. Venomed Blades, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost
3. Critical Mastery, Sneak Attack Training, Intelligence
4. Execute, Killer, Intelligence
5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe


Harper Agent (15 AP)


Agent of Good I, Intelligence, Agent of Good II
1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat I
2. Versatile Adept I
3. Versatile Adept II, Strategic Combat II

[RTFM]

If you are going Harper, just dump STR, go max INT all lvl ups into INT.

You might also consider Single Weapon Fighting line instead of THF, and going Rapiers or Khopesh.




Yes, well I am not shooting for DDO's version of Assassin here. In fact in Epic levels I think I will be focusing primarily on warforged and harper....dumping assassin almost completely. Almost...not all of it. If you can no longer assassinate you may as well try to hit harder...and with the warforged enhancements I can. You can stick with the knives if you like...most things out there are a bit tougher than steak though. Especially those immune to SA.

[CThruTheEgo]

If you can no longer assassinate you may as well try to hit harder...and with the warforged enhancements I can. You can stick with the knives if you like...most things out there are a bit tougher than steak though.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from your idea, but I feel the need to respond to the above quote. If you want something different than the cookie cutter flavor of DDO's rogue enhancement trees, then by all means go with what you have listed, but don't assume that you'll be doing better dps by not taking full advantage of the natural synergy between the various trees and their respective weapons. You will not hit harder by using any combination of falchions, warforged enhancements, and harper. It will most certainly perform far below a more cookie cutter build. I don't know if this matters to you or not, but the statement quoted above made me feel the need to give you a word of caution.


Especially those immune to SA.

Sneak attack immune mobs are a complete non-issue nowadays. I can say from experience that undead and constructs do not present any greater challenge to an assassin than any other mob. Along with all of the fort bypass available, the combination of assassin's trick and shiv ensures sneak attack damage against sneak attack immune mobs.

[unbongwah]

He needs 17 strength for GTHF
He also lists +6 Supreme tome: 13 + 6 = 19. So with base STR 13, OP's feat progression would be: PA (1), falchion prof (3), Addy Body (6), THF (9), IC:Slash (12), ITHF (15), GTHF (18), OC (21), ISA (24)

Most of acrobat tree works wonders with falchion. There are interesting things like 20% doublestrike, improved defensive roll, increased dodge cap.
They changed Cartwheel Charge so it only applies to staves. http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_25_Patch_2_Release_Notes#Enhancements

If you want something different than the cookie cutter flavor of DDO's rogue enhancement trees, then by all means go with what you have listed, but don't assume that you'll be doing better dps by not taking full advantage of the natural synergy between the various trees and their respective weapons. You will not hit harder by using any combination of falchions, warforged enhancements, and harper. It will most certainly perform far below a more cookie cutter build.
This: the reason why pure rogue builds are so "cookie cutter" these days is that the rogue PrE upgrade has really been geared towards specific weapons / combat styles. Deviating from them usually means taking a significant DPS hit: e.g., not using daggers or kukris renders Knife Spec useless, not using 1H (melee) weapons renders Lethality useless; and those are both significant DPS bonuses to TWF Assassins.

[mezzorco]

They changed Cartwheel Charge so it only applies to staves.

Oh, I see :(

[CThruTheEgo]

This: the reason why pure rogue builds are so "cookie cutter" these days is that the rogue PrE upgrade has really been geared towards specific weapons / combat styles. Deviating from them usually means taking a significant DPS hit: e.g., not using daggers or kukris renders Knife Spec useless, not using 1H (melee) weapons renders Lethality useless; and those are both significant DPS bonuses to TWF Assassins.

Exactly. I might even argue that they went overboard with those bonuses. Assassins are definitely less dependent on sneak attack damage now than they used to be, but a significant portion of their dps is still sneak attack based.