BOLD Prediction - Gnome Artificers

[Ganak]

When we see the Arty revisited...


Gnomes - Playable Race



Discuss.....

[Steve_Howe]

No

[Saekee]

No

why?

[FranOhmsford]

I'd love to see Gnomes {especially Svirfnebli, Forest Gnomes and Zilargo Gnomes of Eberron} in DDO and Arti is an obvious fit for Zilargo and Svirfnebli {also for Tinkers}.

But Gnomes need to come with an Illusionist option too so we need more Illusion Spells added + a rebuild of Archmage to fit.

Also both Forest Gnomes and Svirfnebli were +Wis races in AD&D 2nd Ed. so there's your +Wis race for DDO.

[UurlockYgmeov]

I'd love to see Gnomes {especially Svirfnebli, Forest Gnomes and Zilargo Gnomes of Eberron} in DDO and Arti is an obvious fit for Zilargo and Svirfnebli {also for Tinkers}.

But Gnomes need to come with an Illusionist option too so we need more Illusion Spells added + a rebuild of Archmage to fit.

Also both Forest Gnomes and Svirfnebli were +Wis races in AD&D 2nd Ed. so there's your +Wis race for DDO.

^^^ this...

and besides - Sev has stated that IF another race comes, and he has anything to say about it, he would prefer Svirfnebli.

[Singular]

I'd love to see Gnomes {especially Svirfnebli, Forest Gnomes and Zilargo Gnomes of Eberron} in DDO and Arti is an obvious fit for Zilargo and Svirfnebli {also for Tinkers}.

But Gnomes need to come with an Illusionist option too so we need more Illusion Spells added + a rebuild of Archmage to fit.

Also both Forest Gnomes and Svirfnebli were +Wis races in AD&D 2nd Ed. so there's your +Wis race for DDO.

I vote we make you in charge of creating the Gnome!

[Ganak]

Me Second Bold prediction be:









Ladder bug fix!

[kmoustakas]

Gnome artie iconic?

[Uska]

Umm only in Dragonlance are the gnomes considered tinkers they arent the be all artifcers that would be HUMANS on Eberron they arent really known for that but I would like to see gnomes but they shouldnt get any extras for artificer that is the spehere of Hmans and to a lesser extent dwarves.

[Uska]

I'd love to see Gnomes {especially Svirfnebli, Forest Gnomes and Zilargo Gnomes of Eberron} in DDO and Arti is an obvious fit for Zilargo and Svirfnebli {also for Tinkers}.

But Gnomes need to come with an Illusionist option too so we need more Illusion Spells added + a rebuild of Archmage to fit.

Also both Forest Gnomes and Svirfnebli were +Wis races in AD&D 2nd Ed. so there's your +Wis race for DDO.

shouldnt bring off-shoot optional gnomes from 2nd in

[Uska]

Gnome artie iconic?

Why gnomes arent ICONIC artificers look who gets the bonus to crafting? artificer is a Eberron class and gnomes arent the best arties there.

Plus they said they didnt plan on more Iconics

[Eth]

Do gnomes taste better than halflings?

[Missing_Minds]

Gnomes - Playable Race
You want to play a few inches tall character? Right. I imagine copyrights and such caused that fluffover that created what DnD calls gnomes.

But look at it this way, the effort to just add a race in this game is very very costly (i'm not going to spend 30 minutes to detail why this is.) So by budget and profit concerns alone it will not happen during a class pass. An expansion possibly.

How do you expect them to look? Remember all they will do is modify either a halfling or a dwarf to "make" a gnome. The elves in the game are actually more half elven by looks if you read the books. Half elves are stretched out humans with pointed ears, and half orcs are stretched out dwarves with tusks.

But over all any more? Turbine wants to add them to become the next flavor of the month? frankly I don't care. I can just predect realisitically what won't happen for a class pass and what a result would look it should they ever do so.


Ladder bug fix!
Will never happen for 2 reasons.

1) There really is not an issue with ladders as people complain about. (to Turbine the "Ladder Bug" denotes two ladders not properly joined, hence why they started to use single ladders for those cases. )
2) It is anti cheat sever client 3rd party software that's predictive placement fluffs up with ladders and jumping near solid vertical surfaces being the most easy ways to trigger it.

[Steve_Howe]

Do gnomes taste better than halflings?

No

[Grailhawk]

No

I don't know man some Halfling can be real gamy, with a gnome you don't get that you just need to make sure you shave off the moldy parts.

[FranOhmsford]

shouldnt bring off-shoot optional gnomes from 2nd in

Off shoot optional?

So you're also against Drow, Warforged, H-Orcs and any possible new Race other than standard {Rock} Gnome for DDO then?

I'm guessing that you're one of those DMs who insists that if it's not in the PHB/DMG/MM {And only the base MM mind you - None of those Monstrous Compendiums for you!} then it's not allowed?


The basic PHB Gnome {the Rock Gnome} is a +Int/-Wis Illusionist that is in all other ways little other than a smaller Dwarf!
It's quite frankly the WORST POSSIBLE Gnome to add to DDO - The one that all the Gnome Haters loathe!

I personally don't like the 2nd Ed. Forest Gnomes - Who are even smaller than your average for Gnome races and are much closer to Fey - They may have been +Wis but again they were Illusionists first and foremost!
BUT they get +Wis and DDO needs a +Wis race!

Tinkers - That's Dragonlance specific and considering the changes on Krynn over the last two decades and the lack of Spelljammer in DDO anyway I don't want to see Tinkers anywhere near DDO!
We already have Halflings that are far more Kender than the Hobbits of the PHB!

Svirfnebli and Zilargo = Perfect two Gnome Races for DDO!
Svirfnebli are Dwarf like Miners who specialize in Earth Magic {Savant/Druid}, Illusions {AM} and Artifice {Arti} - They are also a +Wis Race so will be good for Cleric/FvS too! {Oh and they absolutely loathe the Drow and would be an obvious addition to E-Star!}.
Zilargo are Eberron specific Gnomes known as Artificers - These can be your +Int Gnome!

[Khatzhas]

Eberron Gnomes are more likely to have more of an affinity to Bards than Artificers. Knowledge and information is their stock in trade. Indeed, the only reason that they deal in some crafting is because of the secret of elemental binding that only they know (so they say,) rather than an affinity for actually making stuff like House Cannith.
These Zilargo Gnomes are a +Con/-Str race with a bunch of special abilities that just won't translate into the game very well.

Although DDO might take a leaf out of 4th ed. I think that they had a Charisma bonus in that.

I definitely doubt that there would be any sort of movement backwards, to earlier editions before Eberron existed.

[Uska]

Off shoot optional?

So you're also against Drow, Warforged, H-Orcs and any possible new Race other than standard {Rock} Gnome for DDO then?

I'm guessing that you're one of those DMs who insists that if it's not in the PHB/DMG/MM {And only the base MM mind you - None of those Monstrous Compendiums for you!} then it's not allowed?


The basic PHB Gnome {the Rock Gnome} is a +Int/-Wis Illusionist that is in all other ways little other than a smaller Dwarf!
It's quite frankly the WORST POSSIBLE Gnome to add to DDO - The one that all the Gnome Haters loathe!

I personally don't like the 2nd Ed. Forest Gnomes - Who are even smaller than your average for Gnome races and are much closer to Fey - They may have been +Wis but again they were Illusionists first and foremost!
BUT they get +Wis and DDO needs a +Wis race!

Tinkers - That's Dragonlance specific and considering the changes on Krynn over the last two decades and the lack of Spelljammer in DDO anyway I don't want to see Tinkers anywhere near DDO!
We already have Halflings that are far more Kender than the Hobbits of the PHB!

Svirfnebli and Zilargo = Perfect two Gnome Races for DDO!
Svirfnebli are Dwarf like Miners who specialize in Earth Magic {Savant/Druid}, Illusions {AM} and Artifice {Arti} - They are also a +Wis Race so will be good for Cleric/FvS too! {Oh and they absolutely loathe the Drow and would be an obvious addition to E-Star!}.
Zilargo are Eberron specific Gnomes known as Artificers - These can be your +Int Gnome!

Yes I was against drow but WF are core eberron, No to svirnebli they are just like drow in my mind and should never be and humans are still the premeir arties on eberron they modified the WF and created the lightning rail.


No we didnt like the splat books of any kind they were generally over powered and we also saw them as a money grab. I used other MM but players could only use the PHB and DMG for classes and yes I had other restrictions such as no non-good alignments except for 1st ed where I allowed druids

I dont really see the need for a Wis race any more hardly anyone plays a cleric any more but I wouldnt fight against it actively as I would dragonboring them I would ban from parties unlike anything else

Dont play d&d any more other than DDO I play a much better and more enjoyable game although I will say munchkins wouldnt like it. You might like it or maybe not since you do like old school flavor I think although I think you liked higher powered games than I did/do (nothing wrong if thats your thing)

Oh book eberron gnomes arent int race as far as I remember

[FranOhmsford]

Yes I was against drow but WF are core eberron, No to svirnebli they are just like drow in my mind and should never be and humans are still the premeir arties on eberron they modified the WF and created the lightning rail.

Ah but this is DDO where WF are the Premier Artis!

And Bard/Artificer - Both seek out knowledge and Zilargo Gnomes have the extra reason to seek out that knowledge what with Elemental Binding - So Yes they to me count as an Arti specific race!

Humans are good at everything - That's our main benefit in pretty much all Sci-Fi and Fantasy worlds - We can be anything. But are unlikely to be the best at any one thing!


No we didnt like the splat books of any kind they were generally over powered and we also saw them as a money grab. I used other MM but players could only use the PHB and DMG for classes and yes I had other restrictions such as no non-good alignments except for 1st ed where I allowed druids

Funny - Because I own over 90% of 2nd Ed. Splat books and OP is hardly the word I'd use for all but a very few!

Every truly powerful Optional Race {Pixie, Ogre Magi, Drow etc.} came with distinct penalties as well as bonuses!
Every Optional Class came with distinct penalties as well as bonuses! {Some were pretty much all penalties!}.

Even the likes of Grey Elves {Who were b@stardised into Morninglords in DDO - Who were pretty powerful with +2 Int and +1 Dex also came with minuses to Con and Str! {More bonuses = More penalties!}


I dont really see the need for a Wis race any more hardly anyone plays a cleric any more but I wouldnt fight against it actively as I would dragonboring them I would ban from parties unlike anything else

Hardly anyone plays a Cleric {or FvS for that matter} any more and that's your argument AGAINST adding a +Wis race?

REALLY?

That's an argument FOR adding a +Wis race!


Dont play d&d any more other than DDO I play a much better and more enjoyable game although I will say munchkins wouldnt like it. You might like it or maybe not since you do like old school flavor I think although I think you liked higher powered games than I did/do (nothing wrong if thats your thing)

Hackmaster was created specifically with munchkins in mind!

I tried it and unfortunately it felt more like GURPS than D&D!


Oh book eberron gnomes arent int race as far as I remember

It seems 3rd/4th Ed have turned them even more into small Dwarves +Con!

Sorry but I'd much prefer actual Dwarf Subraces {Duergar or Mountain Dwarf for instance} than having Gnome be a Small Dwarf!


P.S. Yes I know Svirfnebli look like Small Dwarves and have similar proclivities {Mining} BUT they're quite different!

What I'm saying here is that though Gnomes may look like Small Dwarves - They may also have similar stats to Dwarves - WE NEED them to be UNIQUE!

And the one thing Gnomes have over Dwarves is affinity for Magic - Both Wis and Int based! - However +Int won't work well in DDO because other races {Drow, WF, Morninglord have Casters sewn up already!}. +Wis WILL Work and Svirfnebli are the most obvious Gnome to add to DDO for this reason!

P.S. Bard? Drow have Bard sewn up!

[TrinityTurtle]

Bring on the gnomes. I always felt it was weird that one of the core races is missing.

[Lerincho]

Someone call the Gnome here. Well I'm still here. :D

[Uska]

Ah but this is DDO where WF are the Premier Artis!

And Bard/Artificer - Both seek out knowledge and Zilargo Gnomes have the extra reason to seek out that knowledge what with Elemental Binding - So Yes they to me count as an Arti specific race!

Humans are good at everything - That's our main benefit in pretty much all Sci-Fi and Fantasy worlds - We can be anything. But are unlikely to be the best at any one thing!



Funny - Because I own over 90% of 2nd Ed. Splat books and OP is hardly the word I'd use for all but a very few!

Every truly powerful Optional Race {Pixie, Ogre Magi, Drow etc.} came with distinct penalties as well as bonuses!
Every Optional Class came with distinct penalties as well as bonuses! {Some were pretty much all penalties!}.

Even the likes of Grey Elves {Who were b@stardised into Morninglords in DDO - Who were pretty powerful with +2 Int and +1 Dex also came with minuses to Con and Str! {More bonuses = More penalties!}



Hardly anyone plays a Cleric {or FvS for that matter} any more and that's your argument AGAINST adding a +Wis race?

REALLY?

That's an argument FOR adding a +Wis race!



Hackmaster was created specifically with munchkins in mind!

I tried it and unfortunately it felt more like GURPS than D&D!



It seems 3rd/4th Ed have turned them even more into small Dwarves +Con!

Sorry but I'd much prefer actual Dwarf Subraces {Duergar or Mountain Dwarf for instance} than having Gnome be a Small Dwarf!


P.S. Yes I know Svirfnebli look like Small Dwarves and have similar proclivities {Mining} BUT they're quite different!

What I'm saying here is that though Gnomes may look like Small Dwarves - They may also have similar stats to Dwarves - WE NEED them to be UNIQUE!

And the one thing Gnomes have over Dwarves is affinity for Magic - Both Wis and Int based! - However +Int won't work well in DDO because other races {Drow, WF, Morninglord have Casters sewn up already!}. +Wis WILL Work and Svirfnebli are the most obvious Gnome to add to DDO for this reason!

P.S. Bard? Drow have Bard sewn up!

Wrong on Hackmaster yiou might be thinking of the orignal based on 1st and 2nd ed ad&d but that is pretty much dead and gone HM5 is defenitly not for the munchkin or powergamer a level 10 HM character is about equal to level 5 d&d or less plus they will have fewer magic items and HP also there stats will be much lower its a much more lower powered game


https://rpggeek.com/rpg/2326/hackmaster-5th-edition-basic-advanced


oh since you like 2nd did you see this by gary's son?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1709227718/ernest-gary-gygax-jrs-marmoreal-tomb-campaign-star

[FranOhmsford]

Wrong on Hackmaster yiou might be thinking of the orignal based on 1st and 2nd ed ad&d but that is pretty much dead and gone HM5 is defenitly not for the munchkin or powergamer a level 10 HM character is about equal to level 5 d&d or less plus they will have fewer magic items and HP also there stats will be much lower its a much more lower powered game

https://rpggeek.com/rpg/2326/hackmaster-5th-edition-basic-advanced[/QUOTE]

Wow - Hackmaster has come a long way from it's roots {Knights of the Dinner Table} then!

And yes I was thinking of the original Hackmaster - I didn't realise that they'd done a WotC on it and gutted it!


oh since you like 2nd did you see this by gary's son?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1709227718/ernest-gary-gygax-jrs-marmoreal-tomb-campaign-star

Uh? That's 1st Ed!

It's specifically based on 1st Ed rules and was according to that link created back in 1978 {11 Years before 2nd Ed. existed!}.

The rules of 1st Ed. and 2nd Ed. are similar enough {Unlike 3rd+} to allow modification but:

1) I don't have money to spend on it

2) I don't have anyone to play it with even if I did!

3) I tend to avoid modules in PnP preferring to create my own Worlds and Adventures anyway. {The only exception was Dark Sun which I loved!}.

[Uska]

https://rpggeek.com/rpg/2326/hackmaster-5th-edition-basic-advanced

Wow - Hackmaster has come a long way from it's roots {Knights of the Dinner Table} then!

And yes I was thinking of the original Hackmaster - I didn't realise that they'd done a WotC on it and gutted it!



Uh? That's 1st Ed!

It's specifically based on 1st Ed rules and was according to that link created back in 1978 {11 Years before 2nd Ed. existed!}.

The rules of 1st Ed. and 2nd Ed. are similar enough {Unlike 3rd+} to allow modification but:

1) I don't have money to spend on it

2) I don't have anyone to play it with even if I did!

3) I tend to avoid modules in PnP preferring to create my own Worlds and Adventures anyway. {The only exception was Dark Sun which I loved!}.[/QUOTE]

Orignial hackmaster was kind of a joke and kind of not in order to honor their agreement with WOTC they had to be a little jokey. If your interested in just looking at it hackmaster basic is available for free from Kenzer it has most of the stuff there and you can take a character directely from it to HM5 without any real work. There are also a couple of free modules which I dont use but pick ideas from

They also did a well done version of the keep on the borderlands and soon to have to the caves of chaos.

But yeah they made their own game and it is fun but a little more complicated at first but goes very smooth afterwards

if you cant find people to play with check out roll20 there is people playing all kinds of games and its free and even some 2nd people

[Spekdah_NZ]

So many cool things could come with Gnomes!

Do they add standard Rock/Forest Gnomes though? Think favoured class was changed to Bard in 3.5? Have +1DC for illusion spells, be nice to have more illusion spells!

Deep Gnomes would be more varied with (checks srd) +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, –2 Strength, –4 Charisma. Have innate spell resistance too and nondetection, but favoured class is rogue.
Eberron has Chaos Gnomes ; +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength favoured class sorcerer, has caster checks for spells with chaos, but DDO has none so not much good.

There is the Gnome House Sivis, with the dragonmark of scribing. Looks like a reach to introduce any of that.

Wonder what you would put in the racial enhancement tree? Could put in a tinker theme, at least to part of it. Go crazy and introduce Blunderbusses and other steampunk madness!

Gnome artificer + blunderbuss, happy thoughts :-)