Warlock Pact Choices

[jortann]

Hey Guys!

I am trying to sort through a warlock build and wanted to get some of your thoughts on Pact Choices. I listed some pros and cons below, but would like to see your thoughts as well.

Fey Pros
Sonic is good damage type
Otto's Dancing spells
Abundant Step

Fey cons
Blast is a reflex save and can be evaded


Fiend Pros
Dark One's Luck
Hurl Through Hell

Fiend Cons
A lot of mobs are fire resistant
A lot of mobs have high fort saves


Great Old One Pros
Acid is a good damage type
Blast save is a will save
Power Word Kill
Entropic Ward
Create Thrall

Great Old One Cons
?

[Red_Knight]

For fey cons you also have the fact the pact damage goes of Preform, which is a cross class skill.

Fiend pact synergies well with the soul eater tree. An early soul eater enhancement for example lets you easily stack up to a -6 fort save penalty on the enemy. It also gets some nice utility spells such as command and rage (great if you're meleeing).

Great Old One pact has some nice utility spells too such as Knock.

[fmalfeas]

Fiend also has Howl of Terror, which is a fear effect. Which means the Draconic Incarnation enhancement that boosts the DC of your fear spells works on it.

[richieelias27]

Fey has Dark Delerium. A daze that works on just about everything orange named or less with no save. Guaranteed method to let that champion caster wait for you to finish off his friends before dealing with him/her (assuming you don't do something silly, like attack it).

[Memnir]

Fey Pact Dark Delirium is fantastic. (Fey Pro)

Create Thrall is actually kinda annoying. (GOO Con)

Knock is super-handy (GOO Pro)

***edit*
Ignore my prior statement about Thralls... conciser it user-error. Create Thrall is actually pretty cool.

[fmalfeas]

I actually had great success with Create Thrall. If they save, they'e confused, if they don't, it's short enough to not make everyone start screaming about you charming things. And during that time, you have a distracto-dot that you /hope/ dies.

[Alternative]

Fey targetting reflex being a problem is greatly exagerrated, in heroics it's not an issue even as I was running a shadarkai with cha penalty and no evoc focus. In EEs reflexes are not that high either, as can be seen when druids use no fail earthquake and then say they only have like 55 evoc DC. If a druid has no problems beating EE reflex save, there's no reason why warlock should. Also if you really need to you can make a GS solid fog clicky or two (greensteel) for -5 reflex debuff and use waves of exhaustion for -3. Also, should it become relevant for some builds, FEY is the only pact that can multiclass with anything else. I tried fey, tried goo (and fiend), going back to fey now.

[Red_Knight]

Fey has Dark Delerium. A daze that works on just about everything orange named or less with no save. Guaranteed method to let that champion caster wait for you to finish off his friends before dealing with him/her (assuming you don't do something silly, like attack it).

I love that ability. And even if you do attack, the chance to break Dark Delirium is low. Oh sure, you'll probably break it. But there's a good chance the enemy will just stand there till they're almost dead.

I'm interested in trying Create Thrall on a certain ghostly beholder in In the Flesh. Why? Just for fun.

[fmalfeas]

Well, regarding the druid thing, they may not be revealing a couple mods. In water ele form, they have a buff that strips reflex save off things they've hit with their ice magic recently. And from Magister they can twist the thing that strips 10 reflex from things hit by evocations. Then they toss Ice Storm and Earthquake...everything loses a huge amount of reflex, goes down, and stays there till it's over.

[Vonavin]

I have still second thoughts about pacts...
I just compare Fey and Great Old One and cannot decide what to choose.
FEY:
(+) Fey has sonic damage which is barely resistable by monsters.
(+) Abundant Step and Dark Delirium might be handy.
(-) Relex save kinda sux.
(-) Fey bonus spells also sux. (Obscuring Mist (Really?), Blindness, Slow, Greater Dispel, Otto Sphere, Irresistable Otto) Only Ottos might be handy.
GREAT OLD ONE:
(+) Acid damage is always good but sometimes it heals !
(+) Better spells like "Knock" "Phantasmal Kller" and "Power Word: Kill" and some charm-like spells. Even "Entangle" is fine for low levels.
(-) "Entropic Ward" and "Create Thrall" not so impressive.
(-) I don't know epic levels but people say acid damage has no synergy for epic levels.

Any thoughts to help me?

[elvesunited]

I have still second thoughts about pacts...
I just compare Fey and Great Old One and cannot decide what to choose.
FEY:
(+) Fey has sonic damage which is barely resistable by monsters.
(+) Abundant Step and Dark Delirium might be handy.
(-) Relex save kinda sux.
(-) Fey bonus spells also sux. (Obscuring Mist (Really?), Blindness, Slow, Greater Dispel, Otto Sphere, Irresistable Otto) Only Ottos might be handy.
GREAT OLD ONE:
(+) Acid damage is always good but sometimes it heals !
(+) Better spells like "Knock" "Phantasmal Kller" and "Power Word: Kill" and some charm-like spells. Even "Entangle" is fine for low levels.
(-) "Entropic Ward" and "Create Thrall" not so impressive.
(-) I don't know epic levels but people say acid damage has no synergy for epic levels.

Any thoughts to help me?

My thought is if you are going with a build where you max DC and charisma. Then Ottos' dancing sphere is really useful. You're also probably a distance attacker which makes the abundant step and dark delirium moves that much more appealing.

But if you're not going for the max charisma and DC then the value of the dancing ball drops and the reflex evasion save becomes more of an issue. In that case great old one becomes more appealing.

So it really depends on what kind of warlock you want to make.

[Vonavin]

My thought is if you are going with a build where you max DC and charisma. Then Ottos' dancing sphere is really useful. You're also probably a distance attacker which makes the abundant step and dark delirium moves that much more appealing.

But if you're not going for the max charisma and DC then the value of the dancing ball drops and the reflex evasion save becomes more of an issue. In that case great old one becomes more appealing.

So it really depends on what kind of warlock you want to make.

Yeah i am gonna max DC and charisma. Even if i get all enchantment focuses that wont be enough just like spell singer bard. :(((((