My final summation of the rogue assassin pass

[krimsonrane]

I took the path of least resistance. Human. Pure rogue. Int based, dual kukris(Midnight Greetings)/great crossbow (thunder forged tier2)
52 int. 66 assassinate DC w/o pots or buffs. Fully exploited xbow abilities. 710 HP. Shadowdancer. Twisted in Pin/Ottos Whistler and fast healing. I concentrated on Xbow damage and multipliers. I'm often critting for 2500+ but more regularly around 1500+
My dodge is a standing 19%. I have permanent blur/ghostly and make liberal use of displacement.

Here's the problem.

If you call a 70 year old mercenary with a high powered machine gun slaughtering a village of people only armed with swords an "assassin" then yes. I'm an assassin. But like that 70 year old I can't take a hit in elite content. Literally I can be one shotted easily.
On EH/EN it has no issues. Everything is easy. But one step up things change quickly. Staying out of direct combat is a priority. Being targeted by archers make you useless. Champions give you nightmares. So it's pew pew pew from as far away as you can get. If that doesn't work it's run far away quick as possible if you get too much agro or kite kite kite if it's a boss. Everywhere I go I find myself looking for exploitative perch points where my squishy behind can stay alive and snipe everything from a safe vantage.

Here's another problem.
(Effects): You have multiple effects granting an Enhancement bonus to Assassin Special Ability DC that do not stack. ( Epic Midnight Greetings, Epic Mufled Veneer and Epic Midnight Greetings )

I feel like this was a fail at staying true to the spirit of the assassin PRE.
We still have a huge glass DC ceiling regarding EE content that unfairly forces you to spend every enhancement and destiny point on INT in order to achieve a no fail assassinate. And as the quote above shows there was little effort in making an assassinate DC less stringent to allow diversity.

Finally everything went towards DPS. I think there could have been a lot more creativity on the devs part to develop a more assassin like character or abilities. There are a million ways to assassinate. We got 3 that work sometimes under the right conditions in high level content. Assassinate, consume and executioners shot.

In summation:
This should be renamed the new deepwoods sniper pass.

[krimsonrane]

Oh. I forgot to say if I like it or not.
It can be fun on Eh runs doing anything. The web and dance traps are good attempts at CC. Plus on EH at level or EE below level all of its abilities shine. At those times yes. I like it. Even alone on EE at level it can work with patience. I'd give it a 7 on 1-10.

[krimsonrane]

It would be unnecessary to tell me about dex based assassins. I covered how I felt about that in the 1st of these 3 posts. maybe one day I might try a dex assassin. But at the moment another rogue life doesn't appeal to me.

[slarden]

Great write-up.

I can't comment on repeater builds. They seem much more popular, but I like the playstyle of a melee assassin and haven't even played with repeater builds a little bit.

Since the release of harper tree until the rogue pass I played my assassin more than any other character. I took the easy-button completionist path in getting 12 iconic past lifes and a bunch of epic past lifes also. I loved the challenge of assassin and the fact that it required such a perfect playstyle to really do well.

For me the major wrinkle in the release was the addition of dex as an assassinate. I was never opposed to the idea, but I was hoping they would also balance int so I wouldn't have to change my gear. Unfortunately that didn't happen so I TR'd into a halfling dex-based assassin. My build is in my sig. Unfortunately this really upset some int based assassins that left the game. Turbine made a bit of a mistake by not taking the easy path to balance int with dex.

Overall my playstyle changed very little. My survivability went up significantly by dropping harper tree and putting points into the halfling and thief-acrobat tree instead. My dodge and dodge cap went up. I freed up a feat by not needing insightful reflexes and took epic damage reduction for 10 more PRR which is very helpful on a squishy rogue. I also dropped past life sneak of shadows for the halfling healing line since my dps was much better. The main difference is this allows me to stay in combat more instead of having to retreat or even hop around to heal myself and stay alive. This better survivability translated into better dps since I could stay in the fight more frequently.

My overall DPS increased as well. An extra crit multiplier in the core plus some melee power. I also added 3d6 sneak attack from the halfling tree which fit in perfect with dragonmark healing. I have 2 ranks of no mercy for extra damage when balanced attacks or my ice cloak procs. I was able to change my twists and take extra action boost x3 giving me 9 30 MP damage boost and 9 30% haste boosts. Since Sneak attack damage now scales with 150% melee power the action boosts gave me a huge dps increase. My DC is higher as a dex assassin even though I put less points into stats in the trees.

Since my TR to dex-based assassin I soloed almost every quest on EE. Most before I hit 28 and some after.

I feel overall I lost nothing and improved by build significantly defensively and with DPS. The biggest single power boost is from allowing dex as an assassinate stat. The other changes such as adding melee power, scaling sneak damage with 150% melee power, +1 crit multiplier, improved sneak speed, etc. were all helpful and appreciated changes as well.

Rogues are still very squishy, but here is the thing I feel strongly about. If you are able to stay alive, maximize sneak attack up-time and use your large amount of clickies with high effectiveness - you will have really great dps. The reality is most rogues won't be able to do this with a melee assassin which in my opinion makes melee assassin the most fun and challenging class to play. It also rewards effective play more than any other build I've used.

Overall I give the devs a B+ on the assassin pass (can't comment on the other 2 builds as much). They only fail to get an A because they neglected to balance int-based assassins which was exceptionally easy to do.

[slarden]

It would be unnecessary to tell me about dex based assassins. I covered how I felt about that in the 1st of these 3 posts. maybe one day I might try a dex assassin. But at the moment another rogue life doesn't appeal to me.

I read this after I wrote up my comments so I apologize, but it would be hard to describe my experience without mentioning dex based assassin since that is what I TRd into.

[krimsonrane]

I read this after I wrote up my comments so I apologize, but it would be hard to describe my experience without mentioning dex based assassin since that is what I TRd into.

It's ok.

lol my first post was "we should get a free stone" ( I meant heart)
They did the dex switch AFTER I TR'd into an int build. I might have tried it otherwise. I had some good staff assassin builds in mind and the right gear for it. But atm... This was rogue life # 13 I think. I'll bow out for now.

[01000010]

are you married to shadowdancer for some reason? assassins/repeater builds do well in other destinies that give more health, howabout shadow plate for dr in quests where it helps more than evasion? couple feats, but nice option for survival.

[krimsonrane]

are you married to shadowdancer for some reason? assassins/repeater builds do well in other destinies that give more health, howabout shadow plate for dr in quests where it helps more than evasion? couple feats, but nice option for survival.

I tried fury. It does massive burst damage but reduces my assassinate considerably. Plus it's not just about hit points. I'd need 1500+ HP's to make a difference when taking hits that vary from 300-1000 dmg. If I concentrated on PRR I'd have to sacrifice more than I'm willing to give up. I have 24/24 and that is really nothing. Instead I focused on the standard layered defenses, elusive target and playstyle.

Also, I'm wearing black dragonscale robes for the 5% xtra damage, fort reduction and haste.

[Steve_Howe]

Dual Midnight Greetings was NEVER a good idea. For a Rogue that does a lot of sneak damage, something with Radiance (Radiance II greensteel kukri works well) on it was ALWAYS the best weapon to use along with EMG. The reason is on a critical, a mob was blinded with NO SAVE. This meant they were sneak-attackable. Of course, instead of a Radiance II GS kukri, you could use a Celestia but the crit threat range is less and you'd need to take IC: Piercing weapon in addition to IC: Slashing weapon - not an efficient use of feat slots.

If you're set on using at least one EMG, your best helm option is a Black Dragon helm which also means your best armor option is a Black Dragon robe.

[krimsonrane]

Dual Midnight Greetings was NEVER a good idea. For a Rogue that does a lot of sneak damage, something with Radiance (Radiance II greensteel kukri works well) on it was ALWAYS the best weapon to use along with EMG. The reason is on a critical, a mob was blinded with NO SAVE. This meant they were sneak-attackable. Of course, instead of a Radiance II GS kukri, you could use a Celestia but the crit threat range is less and you'd need to take IC: Piercing weapon in addition to IC: Slashing weapon - not an efficient use of feat slots.

If you're set on using at least one EMG, your best helm option is a Black Dragon helm which also means your best armor option is a Black Dragon robe.

I have the black dragon helm and chose to wear the muffled instead for a couple of reasons. The skill bonuses and assassinate bonus to all weapons. As to the EMG's, with quadrupled d6 damage on a 15- 20, disintegrate, improved para. a red slot and improved deception it's still a great set of weapons. I have thunderforged kukris but chose not to invest the materials to finish them as my main weapon is an xbow and I don't plan on keeping the build or class.

[Steve_Howe]

I have the black dragon helm and chose to wear the muffled instead for a couple of reasons. The skill bonuses and assassinate bonus to all weapons. As to the EMG's, with quadrupled d6 damage on a 15- 20, disintegrate, improved para. a red slot and improved deception it's still a great set of weapons. I have thunderforged kukris but chose not to invest the materials to finish them as my main weapon is an xbow and I don't plan on keeping the build or class.

Using the Black Dragon helm without the Black Dragon robe seems almost pointless. I'll let you figure out why.

[Blackheartox]

This is a video from a friend that plays rogues since back in 2008, he never fell victim to palie bard barb shiradi monkcher casting and always played rogues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvinuV9ePg

You can check his other videos, where he fights a bunch of champions or shows simple rogue tactics to some players that complain that rogues are weak or not survivable.


Rogue is fine.

He never had any issue surviving ee content and soloed almost all quests without ever complaining that he lacks survival.
When he needs survival he goes toward sleet storm scrolls/glitter dust with web traps as backup.
He said hel conver to pure again but this is his video before this rogue revamp as a 13 rogue 6 ranger 1 fighter.

Currently pure and 18 rogue 2 palie and some other melle variations with assasinate/ dual weapon offer multiple layers of defense, and esp it being dex based build that offer amazing synergy with imp defensive roll.


What i want to say, its not the car but the driver that has issues.

[krimsonrane]

This is a video from a friend that plays rogues since back in 2008, he never fell victim to palie bard barb shiradi monkcher casting and always played rogues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owvinuV9ePg

You can check his other videos, where he fights a bunch of champions or shows simple rogue tactics to some players that complain that rogues are weak or not survivable.


Rogue is fine.

He never had any issue surviving ee content and soloed almost all quests without ever complaining that he lacks survival.
When he needs survival he goes toward sleet storm scrolls/glitter dust with web traps as backup.
He said hel conver to pure again but this is his video before this rogue revamp as a 13 rogue 6 ranger 1 fighter.

Currently pure and 18 rogue 2 palie and some other melle variations with assasinate/ dual weapon offer multiple layers of defense, and esp it being dex based build that offer amazing synergy with imp defensive roll.


What i want to say, its not the car but the driver that has issues.


Again. You're wasting your time telling me about dex builds. I didn't play a dex build. Maybe that might seem confusing to you until you recall that 2 weeks AFTER the official pass dex to assassinate was added in a patch and no one expected it.

[krimsonrane]

Using the Black Dragon helm without the Black Dragon robe seems almost pointless. I'll let you figure out why.

You sound like your caught up in shinies.
All I "lost" was a few extra points of artifact damage. Everything else and more is already covered.

[Steve_Howe]

You sound like your caught up in shinies.
All I "lost" was a few extra points of artifact damage. Everything else and more is already covered.

Nope. You missed it. Keep looking.

[Blackheartox]

Again. You're wasting your time telling me about dex builds. I didn't play a dex build. Maybe that might seem confusing to you until you recall that 2 weeks AFTER the official pass dex to assassinate was added in a patch and no one expected it.


Refusing to play the possible options and claiming a particular playstyle doesnt work while i linked a video from a person who has a channel dedicated toward str /int based rogue builds is what i dont get.


You basically are saying, no i dont want to change my gear, no i dont want to change my destiny, no i dont want to change my stats, no i dont want to change my playstyle, yet assasin rogues are weak because i say and claim so.

Pointless thread imo and pointless "final summation".
You make a final summation after exploring, testing and playing all options available which you have not even nearly done, but have fun, i know many people enjoy the pass, game wont die if you dont like it

Dont let me started on your "no stacking issue"

Sigh

[Chai]

My first life drow int build has almost 1k HP (~980), PRR in the 80s and 69 DC with MG. If I loot a TOEE weapon she will have 73 DC.

[krimsonrane]

Refusing to play the possible options and claiming a particular playstyle doesnt work while i linked a video from a person who has a channel dedicated toward str /int based rogue builds is what i dont get.


You basically are saying, no i dont want to change my gear, no i dont want to change my destiny, no i dont want to change my stats, no i dont want to change my playstyle, yet assasin rogues are weak because i say and claim so.

Pointless thread imo and pointless "final summation".
You make a final summation after exploring, testing and playing all options available which you have not even nearly done, but have fun, i know many people enjoy the pass, game wont die if you dont like it

Dont let me started on your "no stacking issue"

Sigh

No. I don't want to try again. I did 12 rogue lives prior to this. I gave it every opportunity to be the best I could make it. It's not like I don't have some experience with rogue assassins. Telling me "no, try the other build. No not that build the other other build" does not inspire me to do so. I gave it my best shot one more time and found it wanting. I even invested a lesser heart at cap. Sorry you don't think I'm allowed my own opinion.

Just curious. What part of the OP do you feel is wrong?

[krimsonrane]

and please people... start actually reading things before you come charging in with knives drawn.

[Fedora1]

I agree with you, and I did a human dex based assassin. It's playable, but slow. Much better in a party. I also agree with your rating, I give it a 7/10.

[krimsonrane]

Using the Black Dragon helm without the Black Dragon robe seems almost pointless. I'll let you figure out why.

I'm wearing the robe not the helm.

[krimsonrane]

I agree with you, and I did a human dex based assassin. It's playable, but slow. Much better in a party. I also agree with your rating, I give it a 7/10.

thanks

[Steve_Howe]

I'm wearing the robe not the helm.

Nevermind. You're missing the point and it appears you won't get it.

GL with your Rogue!

[slarden]

Nevermind. You're missing the point and it appears you won't get it.

GL with your Rogue!

Are you absolutely sure it's him missing the point?


I have the black dragon helm and chose to wear the muffled instead for a couple of reasons. The skill bonuses and assassinate bonus to all weapons. As to the EMG's, with quadrupled d6 damage on a 15- 20, disintegrate, improved para. a red slot and improved deception it's still a great set of weapons. I have thunderforged kukris but chose not to invest the materials to finish them as my main weapon is an xbow and I don't plan on keeping the build or class.



Using the Black Dragon helm without the Black Dragon robe seems almost pointless. I'll let you figure out why.



and please people... start actually reading things before you come charging in with knives drawn.

[krimsonrane]

Nevermind. You're missing the point and it appears you won't get it.

GL with your Rogue!

1st of all just it's not me who is missing the point. I didn't want just a rogue. I wanted and built an assassin to the best of my abilities.
Secondly I've said this is it. I'm done. I'm not interested in trying again for the 14th time or changing my gear or following some barely a rogue hybrid build in another tr'd life. I gave my input BEFORE the pass and now I've given it after playing an assassin daily for weeks.
I tried the pass using MY OWN considerable experience. I followed the grain laid out before me and made my own judgement based on what I built and experienced. I thought I was pretty successful with what I accomplished. But I didn't feel like I was playing an assassin. Which is what I was looking for. next step is to TR again and it won't be into an assassin or rogue of any sort higher than a splash.
So please. save me the smugness and superior attitude. You're giving advice in a snide way to someone who isn't interested in using it at this time. I've done what I said I would do and now it's time to move on.

[Steve_Howe]

Are you absolutely sure it's him missing the point?
Yes, I'm sure.

If he is going to use EMG, there's no need to use the Muffled Veneer. Therefore, since he's wearing the Black Dragon robe, he should wear the Black Dragon helm.

My point wasn't about each item individually. It was about the set bonus which benefits Rogues more than any other class.

[Steve_Howe]

1st of all just it's not me who is missing the point. I didn't want just a rogue. I wanted and built an assassin to the best of my abilities.
Secondly I've said this is it. I'm done. I'm not interested in trying again for the 14th time or changing my gear or following some barely a rogue hybrid build in another tr'd life. I gave my input BEFORE the pass and now I've given it after playing an assassin daily for weeks.
I tried the pass using MY OWN considerable experience. I followed the grain laid out before me and made my own judgement based on what I built and experienced. I thought I was pretty successful with what I accomplished. But I didn't feel like I was playing an assassin. Which is what I was looking for. next step is to TR again and it won't be into an assassin or rogue of any sort higher than a splash.
So please. save me the smugness and superior attitude. You're giving advice in a snide way to someone who isn't interested in using it at this time. I've done what I said I would do and now it's time to move on.
Then move on. Don't bother posting here to tell us all about your trials and tribulations with your Rogue-play. I'm not sure any of us care.

Regardless, good luck with your future endeavors. I sincerely hope you find fulfillment and meaning in life playing something else.

Take care.

[slarden]

Yes, I'm sure.

If he is going to use EMG, there's no need to use the Muffled Veneer. Therefore, since he's wearing the Black Dragon robe, he should wear the Black Dragon helm.

My point wasn't about each item individually. It was about the set bonus which benefits Rogues more than any other class.

He is losing 3% double strike and +2 to hit and damage from the set bonus but gaining 20 move silently, hide and spot. As an int build those bonuses are very important. You are focused on just one thing on that helm which he acknowledge in his very first post wasn't stacking. His reason for using the helm likely has more to do with the other things on the helmet.

Also, if I am reading his post correctly he mainly uses a crossbow and then switches to emg for assassinate. So really all he is losing is the +2 attack damage. I think the trade off between +2 and +20 hide/move silently/spot is not as simple as you think it is. Especially for an int build and especially when he is having trouble landing assassinate with a 71 DC (66 + 5 measure the foe). My experience is that when people have trouble landing assassinate it is usually from getting spotted and not failing the assassinate. So those hide and move silently stats are important. Coming in at the right angle and moving at the proper speed for the conditions are also important.

Also, I suspect his reason for using double EMG (for assassinate only it appears) is because of the bonus you get for int. This means a higher "to hit" and since that + assassinate DC + stealth is all that matters for assassinate nitpicking his choice of weapon was off the mark.

I am not sure his reason for using a robe rather than light armor, but since getting one shotted is a concern and his dodge is below the light armor - upgrading to light armor is something worth considering. But I don't know his reason for wearing a robe instead of light armor.

[Blackheartox]

He is losing 3% double strike and +2 to hit and damage from the set bonus but gaining 20 move silently, hide and spot. As an int build those bonuses are very important. You are focused on just one thing on that helm which he acknowledge in his very first post wasn't stacking. His reason for using the helm likely has more to do with the other things on the helmet.

Also, if I am reading his post correctly he mainly uses a crossbow and then switches to emg for assassinate. So really all he is losing is the +2 attack damage. I think the trade off between +2 and +20 hide/move silently/spot is not as simple as you think it is. Especially for an int build and especially when he is having trouble landing assassinate with a 71 DC (66 + 5 measure the foe). My experience is that when people have trouble landing assassinate it is usually from getting spotted and not failing the assassinate. So those hide and move silently stats are important. Coming in at the right angle and moving at the proper speed for the conditions are also important.

Also, I suspect his reason for using double EMG (for assassinate only it appears) is because of the bonus you get for int. This means a higher "to hit" and since that + assassinate DC + stealth is all that matters for assassinate nitpicking his choice of weapon was off the mark.

I am not sure his reason for using a robe rather than light armor, but since getting one shotted is a concern and his dodge is below the light armor - upgrading to light armor is something worth considering. But I don't know his reason for wearing a robe instead of light armor.

If only there was a thing in harper that gave you int to hit and damage..
If only you could use those ap to get those things, then the whole "helm" he is using would have a legit reason.
If only hide was easy to swap in out on other gear slots.


If only there was a item called dark diversion, if only there was a toee dagger and armor that gives you v nice fortification.
If only emidnight was a good weapon to use at lv 24+.
IF only he wasnt playing in shadowdancer but other destenies that can fix "his" survival issue quite simply.

I think i argued for the same thing back since 2008 with people, you dont play a rogue as a assasin primarly , but as a dps machine with assasinate as a nice utility bonus.
There are a few quests in the game that are sneak focused and fun to be completed that way, and i am pretty sure noone can stay sane running those few quests for a decade.

[slarden]

If only there was a thing in harper that gave you int to hit and damage..
If only you could use those ap to get those things, then the whole "helm" he is using would have a legit reason.
If only hide was easy to swap in out on other gear slots.


If only there was a item called dark diversion, if only there was a toee dagger and armor that gives you v nice fortification.
If only emidnight was a good weapon to use at lv 24+.
IF only he wasnt playing in shadowdancer but other destenies that can fix "his" survival issue quite simply.

I think i argued for the same thing back since 2008 with people, you dont play a rogue as a assasin primarly , but as a dps machine with assasinate as a nice utility bonus.
There are a few quests in the game that are sneak focused and fun to be completed that way, and i am pretty sure noone can stay sane running those few quests for a decade.

Oh I do just fine in shadowdancer with my assassin and I think it's absolutely the best destiny for me. I will switch to other destinies situationally, but shadowdancer offers alot to me and is my main destiny.

Cookie cutter builds isn't the answer.

[Blackheartox]

Oh I do just fine in shadowdancer with my assassin and I think it's absolutely the best destiny for me. I will switch to other destinies situationally, but shadowdancer offers alot to me and is my main destiny.

Cookie cutter builds isn't the answer.

I know many people on cannith that do just well as assas pure shadowdancers, but op complains that it isnt survivable and that its bad.
So, what other suggestion to give to someone then to swap to a more survival focused destiny if he refuses to accept that there are people out there that have no issues after this pass.

I can suggest gear changes, armor focus change, build change, destiny change since he isnt sucessfull in his current choices.
What else is there outside of, you are bad, learn to play the game better when someone totally refused every advice you gave, and you yourself had no issues playing the exactly same way?

And i dont want to resort to that since its low, but appereantly i am being baited to write that to him.

[slarden]

I know many people on cannith that do just well as assas pure shadowdancers, but op complains that it isnt survivable and that its bad.
So, what other suggestion to give to someone then to swap to a more survival focused destiny if he refuses to accept that there are people out there that have no issues after this pass.

I can suggest gear changes, armor focus change, build change, destiny change since he isnt sucessfull in his current choices.
What else is there outside of, you are bad, learn to play the game better when someone totally refused every advice you gave, and you yourself had no issues playing the exactly same way?

And i dont want to resort to that since its low, but appereantly i am being baited to write that to him.

I am hesitant to give too much advice because this wasn't really a post asking for advice. He just wanted to share his thoughts on the pass. I also don't have any experience with a repeater rogue build. I think generally an assassin should aim for 70+ PRR. Light armor vs. robe would help. Epic Damage Reduction for 10 PRR would help. Armor mastery for 6 from the assassin tree would help. A min 24 Sheltering item would help if he doesn't have a 30 item from a raid. These things give you 62 PRR which is 38% DR vs. 41.18% with with a 70 PRR or 44.44% with an 80 PRR. Since his dodge is below the light armor cap there is no reason to wear a robe that I can think of.

His assassinate # is good enough so I think he should try and assess whether he is failing assassinate due to DC or detection - I am guessing detection because his DC seems good enough to me. If you are detected after the assassinate animation starts the results look identical to a failed assassinate.

My point from a few posts ago is that switching his helm and using something other than EMG (which is just for assassinate in his case) is not going to make any noticeable difference.

[Fedora1]

you dont play a rogue as a assasin primarly , but as a dps machine with assasinate as a nice utility bonus.

And this is not what the OP wanted, hence his disappointment (if you can call a 7/10 rating a disappointment) with the assassin pass (not the rogue pass, just the assassin pass).

He wanted something that could play like an assassin, not a dps machine or a long ranged kiting sniper.

At least that was my understanding of the OP.


I feel like this was a fail at staying true to the spirit of the assassin PRE.
We still have a huge glass DC ceiling regarding EE content that unfairly forces you to spend every enhancement and destiny point on INT in order to achieve a no fail assassinate. And as the quote above shows there was little effort in making an assassinate DC less stringent to allow diversity.

Finally everything went towards DPS. I think there could have been a lot more creativity on the devs part to develop a more assassin like character or abilities. There are a million ways to assassinate. We got 3 that work sometimes under the right conditions in high level content. Assassinate, consume and executioners shot.

In summation:
This should be renamed the new deepwoods sniper pass.

[Blackheartox]

I am hesitant to give too much advice because this wasn't really a post asking for advice. He just wanted to share his thoughts on the pass. I also don't have any experience with a repeater rogue build. I think generally an assassin should aim for 70+ PRR. Light armor vs. robe would help. Epic Damage Reduction for 10 PRR would help. Armor mastery for 6 from the assassin tree would help. A min 24 Sheltering item would help if he doesn't have a 30 item from a raid. These things give you 62 PRR which is 38% DR vs. 41.18% with with a 70 PRR or 44.44% with an 80 PRR. Since his dodge is below the light armor cap there is no reason to wear a robe that I can think of.

His assassinate # is good enough so I think he should try and assess whether he is failing assassinate due to DC or detection - I am guessing detection because his DC seems good enough to me. If you are detected after the assassinate animation starts the results look identical to a failed assassinate.

My point from a few posts ago is that switching his helm and using something other than EMG (which is just for assassinate in his case) is not going to make any noticeable difference.

If using repet, can say this from personal experience after playing with guildie and hearing from him /will do the same but i lack tovens part for the kinetic thingy and doing other lifes on alt, its rather straighforward.
You just cant die as rogue is amazing for ee content straight at lv 20.
With xbow, its simple, pick crusader or dreadnought and shoot your way to xp.
Now to do a xbow build in shadowdancer doesnt seem to brilliant to me, but a friend who is a 3x all is doing that on his main, and he does amazingly well.
Shadow form and the str damage makes enemies, with current rate of fire/dshoot pretty much harmless even in tougher ees.
Its rather hard to mess up a xbow build nowadays, almost anything works.

[Steve_Howe]

My bad guys. I thought the armor-piercing of the black dragonscale robe was actual set bonus.

I take just about everything I said back about the robe and the helm.

I still wish the OP the best of luck in the future though.

[krimsonrane]

He is losing 3% double strike and +2 to hit and damage from the set bonus but gaining 20 move silently, hide and spot. As an int build those bonuses are very important. You are focused on just one thing on that helm which he acknowledge in his very first post wasn't stacking. His reason for using the helm likely has more to do with the other things on the helmet.

Also, if I am reading his post correctly he mainly uses a crossbow and then switches to emg for assassinate. So really all he is losing is the +2 attack damage. I think the trade off between +2 and +20 hide/move silently/spot is not as simple as you think it is. Especially for an int build and especially when he is having trouble landing assassinate with a 71 DC (66 + 5 measure the foe). My experience is that when people have trouble landing assassinate it is usually from getting spotted and not failing the assassinate. So those hide and move silently stats are important. Coming in at the right angle and moving at the proper speed for the conditions are also important.

Also, I suspect his reason for using double EMG (for assassinate only it appears) is because of the bonus you get for int. This means a higher "to hit" and since that + assassinate DC + stealth is all that matters for assassinate nitpicking his choice of weapon was off the mark.

I am not sure his reason for using a robe rather than light armor, but since getting one shotted is a concern and his dodge is below the light armor - upgrading to light armor is something worth considering. But I don't know his reason for wearing a robe instead of light armor.

it was something I had from a previous life. Since this was a trial life I didn't want to spend more materials on permanent gear.

[krimsonrane]

My bad guys. I thought the armor-piercing of the black dragonscale robe was actual set bonus.

I take just about everything I said back about the robe and the helm.

I still wish the OP the best of luck in the future though.

cool. thanks.

[krimsonrane]

And this is not what the OP wanted, hence his disappointment (if you can call a 7/10 rating a disappointment) with the assassin pass (not the rogue pass, just the assassin pass).

He wanted something that could play like an assassin, not a dps machine or a long ranged kiting sniper.

At least that was my understanding of the OP.

you are correct.

[slarden]

it was something I had from a previous life. Since this was a trial life I didn't want to spend more materials on permanent gear.

This makes absolute sense.

[krimsonrane]

I am hesitant to give too much advice because this wasn't really a post asking for advice. He just wanted to share his thoughts on the pass. I also don't have any experience with a repeater rogue build. I think generally an assassin should aim for 70+ PRR. Light armor vs. robe would help. Epic Damage Reduction for 10 PRR would help. Armor mastery for 6 from the assassin tree would help. A min 24 Sheltering item would help if he doesn't have a 30 item from a raid. These things give you 62 PRR which is 38% DR vs. 41.18% with with a 70 PRR or 44.44% with an 80 PRR. Since his dodge is below the light armor cap there is no reason to wear a robe that I can think of.

His assassinate # is good enough so I think he should try and assess whether he is failing assassinate due to DC or detection - I am guessing detection because his DC seems good enough to me. If you are detected after the assassinate animation starts the results look identical to a failed assassinate.

My point from a few posts ago is that switching his helm and using something other than EMG (which is just for assassinate in his case) is not going to make any noticeable difference.

My MS/Hide is around 105. It's not the detection. It's just not enough of an assassinate dc. My experience and the reports of a few friends who run assassins say it's around a 74 dc that's needed for EE lvl 29+ I assassinate about 3 out of 5 successfully at those levels. Much less for executioners shot. Literally that is even described as a lucky shot so I don't count on it for assassinates. between pin, dance and ES something tends to apply.

I thought about making black dragonscale leather but decided not to do so if I'm only going to TR and I have no idea where I'm going to put all this stuff I made for this life. So it cost me a few points of PRR.

[krimsonrane]

I know many people on cannith that do just well as assas pure shadowdancers, but op complains that it isnt survivable and that its bad.
So, what other suggestion to give to someone then to swap to a more survival focused destiny if he refuses to accept that there are people out there that have no issues after this pass.

I can suggest gear changes, armor focus change, build change, destiny change since he isnt sucessfull in his current choices.
What else is there outside of, you are bad, learn to play the game better when someone totally refused every advice you gave, and you yourself had no issues playing the exactly same way?

And i dont want to resort to that since its low, but appereantly i am being baited to write that to him.

I never said it was bad. I pointed out two problems I ran across and said the pass failed at staying true to the feel of an assassin PRE. Then based on what I built I gave it an above average score of 7.

[redoubt]

No. I don't want to try again. I did 12 rogue lives prior to this. I gave it every opportunity to be the best I could make it. It's not like I don't have some experience with rogue assassins. Telling me "no, try the other build. No not that build the other other build" does not inspire me to do so. I gave it my best shot one more time and found it wanting. I even invested a lesser heart at cap. Sorry you don't think I'm allowed my own opinion.

I feel your pain. I have 20-some heroic past lives. 15 or so had rogue with trapsmith skills and several more were full assassins.

I walked away from assassins for a while. They just were not working as well as I wanted them to. The new pass has added a lot of power and you are correct that mechanic repeater builds are pretty good right now.

When the first round of the update hit I was ready and rolled into an INT assassin. I did argue against the way DEX was implemented, but the day it went live I LR'd into a DEX build. It worked very well. It was the most powerful assassin I've played yet. It was very good at assassinating and also good at off tank dps. The biggest flaw in it was the high rate of DW/DB on champions and epic mobs without warning that it was there. (I still say that a new icon needs to be made for epic ward so that it and DW don't look the same.)



Just curious. What part of the OP do you feel is wrong?

Ranged.

Try melee. You've been playing more of a sniper assassin. You might find an up close sneaky melee assassin has more of the flavor you are seeking.

[krimsonrane]

I feel your pain. I have 20-some heroic past lives. 15 or so had rogue with trapsmith skills and several more were full assassins.

I walked away from assassins for a while. They just were not working as well as I wanted them to. The new pass has added a lot of power and you are correct that mechanic repeater builds are pretty good right now.

When the first round of the update hit I was ready and rolled into an INT assassin. I did argue against the way DEX was implemented, but the day it went live I LR'd into a DEX build. It worked very well. It was the most powerful assassin I've played yet. It was very good at assassinating and also good at off tank dps. The biggest flaw in it was the high rate of DW/DB on champions and epic mobs without warning that it was there. (I still say that a new icon needs to be made for epic ward so that it and DW don't look the same.)




Ranged.

Try melee. You've been playing more of a sniper assassin. You might find an up close sneaky melee assassin has more of the flavor you are seeking.

Thanks. If I ever play a rogue assassin again I'll remember these suggestions.