Warlock past life. What community gives positive feedback for those? [Archive]

UurlockYgmeov

06-04-2015, 05:48 PM

Really?

+9 MRR?

Really??

:sigh:

you are right... what it should be when you get three warlock past lives:

http://content.turbine.com/sites/edm/ddo/store/icons/win_button.jpg

brought to in part by:

http://ddogaming.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2013/04/Koboldthrowersquare.jpg

sirgog

06-04-2015, 08:07 PM

Probably on-par with the Barbarian passive in overall survivability, maybe a bit better.

UurlockYgmeov

06-04-2015, 10:28 PM

Probably on-par with the Barbarian passive in overall survivability, maybe a bit better.

I would like it better if it scaled due to character level.... so +3 at lv1, +6 at 10, +9 at 20 and +12 at 30. (per past life - max 3)

Vargouille

06-05-2015, 09:40 AM

Really?

+9 MRR?

Really??

:sigh:
Too much?

spade413

06-05-2015, 09:52 AM

Too much?

My two cents: I think it's a great addition. It fills a niche that isn't offered by any other past life. MRR is hard to come by, and is always useful.

Connman

06-05-2015, 09:52 AM

Too much?

Well considering how new PRR/MRR still are, we as customers can't really be sure. You guys seem to have a habit of just randomly changing stuff.

Maybe +1/2/3 saves vs magic would be better.

Ambitious

06-05-2015, 09:55 AM

Too much?

No, it's not. It's exactly right, just like PDK or divine pastlifes. I guess they're disappointed because it's not more. While you can stack up PRR up to 36 (27 divine + 9PDK), you can get only 9 MRR. But again, I don't think it should be higher.

Blackheartox

06-05-2015, 09:57 AM

No, it's not. It's exactly right, just like PDK or divine pastlifes. I guess they're disappointed because it's not more. While you can stack up PRR up to 36 (27 divine + 9PDK), you can get only 9 MRR. But again, I don't think it should be higher.

I agree, 9 seems perfect fit, more would be to much, less would be not enough, its the golden middle

Xerio

06-05-2015, 09:58 AM

My two cents: I think it's a great addition. It fills a niche that isn't offered by any other past life. MRR is hard to come by, and is always useful.

I'm in agreement here.

Endgame +9 mrr is not make or break, some could argue it is a trivial value negating 1-3% magic dmg depending on the base MRR afforded by class/armor/items.
Every little bit counts though.

cave_diver

06-05-2015, 10:01 AM

Too much?

Was thinking a tad bit on the low side. had in mind +5/life though I'd live with +4/life.

Any thought of making the active past life feat useful?

dunklezhan

06-05-2015, 10:30 AM

Too much?

Please allow me to give you this feedback varg:

I haven't the faintest idea how to answer your question.

I can barely track what is supposed to stack in this game anymore, let alone what actual effect something might have since Turbine moved into using arcane hidden formulas as your preferred way to do things.

Is it too much? Is it too little? I've no clue. Does 9MRR have a static effect or is it one one of those awful sliding scales like AC where the benefit you get depends entirely on how much of that stat you have already?

All I know about AC, PRR and MRR these days is that "more is better". But I have absolutely no way to judge what how much better, i.e. what effect a bonus to one of those figures will actually have when added to my current build anymore.

Improve the UI and tooltips to provide easy access to analyse my character's capabilities, and I might be able to provide you more useful feedback on these kinds of bonuses.

For instance, I should be able, at any time, to hit a button on my character sheet and just get a read out of all the stuff I am wearing that isn't stacking, instead of having to swap gear on and off then check the combat log to see if it actually worked. The actual defensive benefit, not just the value of AC, should show on the item tooltip as well as on my character sheet.

I have no idea how I'm supposed to check all my sources of PRR/MRR, so I simply don't worry about it. I put on some armour or an item and go 'hey look, my PRR went up. Cool'. That's it.

Qhualor

06-05-2015, 10:30 AM

Too much?

No. I feel it's on par with some other past lives, but I'm not opposed to changing it to something else that I won't feel like I really want :) Not looking forward to doing 12 Warlock past lives on 4 characters and eventually more when I roll up new toons some day. So when is the next sale on boxes or +20 hearts :D

janave

06-05-2015, 10:34 AM

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 10:36 AM

Too much?

Not enough.

Uurlock above said it should scale better into Epic levels. I agree.

Singular

06-05-2015, 10:36 AM

I would like to make it clear that the Warlock past life is intended to give +3 Magic Resistance Rating (MRR) per past life (stacking up to a total of +9 for all three past lives).

Ah. So you didn't go with Spellcraft. Cool.

Singular

06-05-2015, 10:42 AM

Too much?

It's just enough that it doesn't matter in the slightest to me. Not that I think you should make it matter to me or that you should make it more powerful - I certainly don't. +3 MRR/past life is about equal to the other ones (except for the caster dc lives, which are absolutely needed for some end game builds), which makes it ignorable, much like the barbarian past life.

Had you made it the +3 to spellcraft that was discussed, every single dps caster build would have to run 3 past lives of it.

Between the two, MRR makes more sense lore-wise, too. After all, why would Warlocks "learn" a spellcraft bonus? It's not like they understand how to use spells more than wizards. But they probably "learn" how to dodge magic.

Singular

06-05-2015, 10:46 AM

I'd personally not add a heroic past life that is universally useful, most of the heroic past lifes are not useful for all builds/classes/specializations...

Passive could be /stack:
+ 5 universal spellpower
+ 1 will saves

Active/Slottable:
+ improved echoes of the ancestors
+ 1% spell crit

Yeah, see, this past life would force all dps casters to run 3 warlock past lives. It's too much power - unless all other past lives are equally balanced out. You'd probably have to raise barbarian past lives to +25/life to equal to the above, if not more.

And anyways, why would a warlock know how to increase spell power or crit? They get all their power through linkages with extra-planar beings.

Jetrule

06-05-2015, 10:53 AM

No past lives for warlock. Because they they sell their souls thus removing them from the wheel of eternity and any chance for a reincarnation.

moo_cow

06-05-2015, 10:58 AM

2% less damage from elements, here I come.

Taanus

06-05-2015, 12:40 PM

I think it's a good past life. Any other life that gives PRR gives +3. It only stacks up to more PRR because there's more PRR PLs available. If you made the Warlock PL any higher, as the game develops, and more ways of stacking up MRR through PLs become available, the warlock PL would at that point become too much, or at least out of balance with everything else. This MRR bonus in the warlock PL is only the beginning I would hope. Maybe we'll see new iconics down the line, or new epic destinies that provide more MRR in their respective PL feats.

Besides, if we're gonna say that +3 MRR per life is too low, then why don't we start talking about the close-to-insignificant 10 HP that an entire life as a barb will get you. Back in the days when a 1000 HP toon was a rare thing, 30 HP was something. Nowadays, 1/2 or more of the party has 1000+ HP, and that 30 HP becomes a might bit trivial. And I'm not even gonna bring up 20 SP. OK, I did...

Long story short, +3 MRR seems right in line with everything else.

I'd like to know more about the secondary pay-a-slot-for-it feat. I saw something floating around (wiki, I believe) about a clicky eldritch blast, kind of like the wizard MM clicky. I just hope it's not just 6 uses as the quotes say, and it's the same 10 clickies that the wiz gets.

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 12:58 PM

Long story short, +3 MRR seems right in line with everything else.

That doesn't mean it's good or even adequate. If the players are happy with it, that just means too many people will "settle" for mediocrity.

Thrudh

06-05-2015, 01:13 PM

That doesn't mean it's good or even adequate. If the players are happy with it, that just means too many people will "settle" for mediocrity.

I think the word you were looking for is "balance", not "mediocrity"

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 01:15 PM

I think the word you were looking for is "balance", not "mediocrity"

If it's as mediocre as the rest of the past life thingies, yes, it's balanced.

That still doesn't mean it's good.

Vargouille

06-05-2015, 01:17 PM

No past lives for warlock. Because they they sell their souls thus removing them from the wheel of eternity and any chance for a reincarnation.

We may have briefly discussed that once you become a Warlock all future lives must also be Warlock. As you say, your soul doesn't belong to you.

;)

Ape_Man

06-05-2015, 01:40 PM

Too much?

In a way I'm glad that the PL is garbage because class is garbage, means I only have to deal with one life of it to maintain completionist.

If the PL were good I'd have to deal with 3 garbage live so in a way by making the PL weak you did us a favor :)

Had it been +1 Necro or Trans DC . . .

Seikojin

06-05-2015, 01:57 PM

Too much?

No, I also think it is just right. Endgame isn't present yet, so things that multiply in percentages will make end game a rebalancing act a few times to cover a high past life mmr now. So I think leaving it at this mid-range is perfect for now, and after the end game is out, there will be room to expand here if it looks like mrr is in need of love.

Red_Knight

06-05-2015, 02:03 PM

We may have briefly discussed that once you become a Warlock all future lives must also be Warlock. As you say, your soul doesn't belong to you.

;)

That would have ticked off soo many people after discovering it in-game!

Madja

06-05-2015, 02:10 PM

I personally like the PL. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing 4 or 5 MRR per life, but I feel like 3 is perfectly in line with what can be expected from a past-life. A True Reincarnation isn't as big an achievement as it used to be and this past-life is useful for any build in contrast to a lot of the others.

For instance, I should be able, at any time, to hit a button on my character sheet and just get a read out of all the stuff I am wearing that isn't stacking, instead of having to swap gear on and off then check the combat log to see if it actually worked.

Just in case you weren't aware of it, I believe you can see this in the "Effects" chat tab.
E.g mine says stuff like "(Effects): You have multiple effects granting a Generic bonus to Ghost Touch that do not stack. ( Ghost-Waking Cloak and Ring of the Stalker )" without having to swap gear on an off.
I apologize if this isn't what you were looking for.

Blackheartox

06-05-2015, 02:42 PM

Yeah, see, this past life would force all dps casters to run 3 warlock past lives. It's too much power - unless all other past lives are equally balanced out. You'd probably have to raise barbarian past lives to +25/life to equal to the above, if not more.

And anyways, why would a warlock know how to increase spell power or crit? They get all their power through linkages with extra-planar beings.

Il be perfectly honest with you singu, as a primarly sorc player myself who likes to fiddle with arcane casting, all "dps casters" will be warlocks once this update comes live

The crit damage imo outperforms the caster levels that sorc has, i mean it isnt hard to figure out, crit damage is the same as holy sword and crit rage or swasch is for casters, best scaling stat you can imagine for epics

Gremmlynn

06-05-2015, 02:46 PM

That doesn't mean it's good or even adequate. If the players are happy with it, that just means too many people will "settle" for mediocrity.I see it as more in line of what one should expect. After all, the same game has to be played by both first lifers as ultra-completionists.

Personally, I think *Better to have than not have, but nothing to lose sleep over lacking* is about where all passive past life feats should fall.

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 02:50 PM

Personally, I think *Better to have than not have, but nothing to lose sleep over lacking* is about where all passive past life feats should fall.

That sounds suspiciously like settling for "not too sucky."

:sigh:

Red_Knight

06-05-2015, 04:02 PM

That sounds suspiciously like settling for "not too sucky."

:sigh:

Past lives shouldn't be something that is 'mandatory', but rather something useful but that you could do without. Why should vague memories of a previous life make a huge difference in your capabilities?

Taanus

06-05-2015, 04:06 PM

That doesn't mean it's good or even adequate. If the players are happy with it, that just means too many people will "settle" for mediocrity.

That's part of my point.

Actually, I like the +1 Necro DCs idea best. :)

HuneyMunster

06-05-2015, 04:08 PM

We may have briefly discussed that once you become a Warlock all future lives must also be Warlock. As you say, your soul doesn't belong to you.

;)

Warlocks shouldn't drop a soul stone if they die. If they cant reach a shrine or have someone to raise them, then they gonna have to either wait it out, recall out or reroll.

Angelic-council

06-05-2015, 04:26 PM

Would be awesome if it was this instead: on melee, ranged and spell cast, you deal 1d4(1d6) Eldrtich damage, scaled with both, Melee, ranged and spell power. Max 3d12 (3d18).

But, what you know :)

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 04:32 PM

Past lives shouldn't be something that is 'mandatory', but rather something useful but that you could do without. Why should vague memories of a previous life make a huge difference in your capabilities?

But if they're not any good, where's the incentive to spend money on True Hearts, Iconic Hearts, and Epic Hearts?

There's reason why I almost never TR.

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 04:35 PM

That's part of my point.

Actually, I like the +1 Necro DCs idea best. :)

This would be MUCH better. After all, Sorc PLs give +1 to Evocation DCs.

Standal

06-05-2015, 05:52 PM

Too much?

Definitely not too much, and really probably only worth it on characters that don't wear armor and have no other MRR gear. Once you get above about 50 MRR before the past lives I doubt a stack of 3 will matter much. Still, it fulfills one of the niche benefits of past lives. If I come up with a build where I absolutely don't want to wear armor, I get around 9% mitigation from magic. Even when I factor in a Mysterious cloak and a sheltering item, it's still noticeable. If I'm a harmor pally, then I won't even notice it's there.

Connman

06-05-2015, 07:29 PM

But if they're not any good, where's the incentive to spend money on True Hearts, Iconic Hearts, and Epic Hearts?

There's reason why I almost never TR.

I am not sure why you would spend money on these in the first place, unless you are really impatient.

Red_Knight

06-05-2015, 07:54 PM

But if they're not any good, where's the incentive to spend money on True Hearts, Iconic Hearts, and Epic Hearts?

There's reason why I almost never TR.

Good, but not so good they are mandatory. Rather they should be a nice little bonus. If it becomes something vital to every build to the point you're considered gimped without the past life bonus... maybe that's a little too strong. +3 MRR stacking up to +9MRR would be just that. It's helpful, but not so powerful that it's going to be vital. You can do without it with no real issues. Or are you arguing that about 9% less damage from magic isn't useful, but equally isn't required?

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 08:43 PM

I am not sure why you would spend money on these in the first place, unless you are really impatient.

Yay! More grinding for heart seeds!

Ugh!

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 08:46 PM

Good, but not so good they are mandatory. Rather they should be a nice little bonus. If it becomes something vital to every build to the point you're considered gimped without the past life bonus... maybe that's a little too strong. +3 MRR stacking up to +9MRR would be just that. It's helpful, but not so powerful that it's going to be vital. You can do without it with no real issues. Or are you arguing that about 9% less damage from magic isn't useful, but equally isn't required?
9% less magic damage would be VERY useful but that's NOT what's being offered. +9 MRR (which is being offered) may translate into 1% or 2% less magic damage depending on how much MRR you already have. That's certainly NOT worth grinding out three Warlock lives.

+3 to Necro DCs however...

IronClan

06-05-2015, 08:49 PM

That sounds suspiciously like settling for "not too sucky."

:sigh:

The design of heroic past lives is to not be a required or obligatory part of character builds, the current levels of power of some of them already break this design goal, Spell Penn as well as Spell and Tactical DC's for example are worth much more improvement (about 5% per past life) relatively speaking than say +3 damage from Monk lives.

The Warlock PL is not overwhelming and it's certainly less powerful than the best ones. Stacked up to 9 MRR it's worth about 4% damage mitigation on a character that has poor MRR. This will be far more useful on characters that have poor reflex saves, no evasion, no Shield synergy (Vanguard tree) and very little alternative choices to mitigate elemental damage.

Barb's for example in medium armor, Casters without Rogue splashes, perhaps others, will gain more from this PL than others. Though not really needed a S&B toon also gets more out of it.

It's not exciting but it does fit the balance of other heroic PL's. I think the problem is some people are looking for an exciting reason to do 3 heroic TR's.

Steve_Howe

06-05-2015, 08:56 PM

It's not exciting but it does fit the balance of other heroic PL's.

So from your point of view, it's just "average."

Well, nothing excites me more than "average."

Way to go Severlin, your shiny new class is "average." That will draw a few people back to the game. Like 6.

:HUGE sigh:

Qhualor

06-05-2015, 09:05 PM

9% less magic damage would be VERY useful but that's NOT what's being offered. +9 MRR (which is being offered) may translate into 1% or 2% less magic damage depending on how much MRR you already have. That's certainly NOT worth grinding out three Warlock lives.

+3 to Necro DCs however...

right, but one thing I have learned over the years is that DDO is always changing. that +9 could become more useful for paladins one day. don't laugh, you never know in this game, especially since we have barely even tasted level 30 content. the other thing is that some people just look at it as +3 MRR just like they look at +1 damage from monk, +20 sp from sorcerer or an extra +1 by eating a tome. it all adds up in the end when you include all the other +1s from gear, enhancements, feats, buffs, etc and just comes down to if its worth the $ and/or the time investment to you without being able to foresee the future for a bit more damage mitigation.

Sebastrd

06-05-2015, 10:40 PM

Too much?

Perfect as is.

IronClan

06-06-2015, 03:35 AM

So from your point of view, it's just "average."

Well, nothing excites me more than "average."

Way to go Severlin, your shiny new class is "average." That will draw a few people back to the game. Like 6.

:HUGE sigh:

The class isn't average the PL is, the class might be the top nuking DPS in the game the way it's shaping up, Looks to be obsoleting l nuking casters that use heroic spells and have an SP pool to deal with at the very least.

That said I feel yah man, I am running out of fun things to do myself. But personally I am okay with past lives being balanced though so probably aren't the best place to look for new reasons to log in.

changelingamuck

06-06-2015, 04:02 AM

Too much?

I personally think that, yes, it's too much. I'd suggest toning it down to +2 MRR per past life to make it desirable still, but avoid power creepiness.

Angelic-council

06-06-2015, 05:18 AM

I personally think that, yes, it's too much. I'd suggest toning it down to +2 MRR per past life to make it desirable still, but avoid power creepiness.

He is being sarcastic by the way varg. Don't take it seriously.

changelingamuck

06-06-2015, 06:05 AM

He is being sarcastic by the way varg. Don't take it seriously.

Wasn't being sarcastic. I do think +2 MRR per past life would be reasonable. Passive past lives should be quite modest improvements in character power, in my humble opinion.

slarden

06-06-2015, 06:19 AM

right, but one thing I have learned over the years is that DDO is always changing. that +9 could become more useful for paladins one day. don't laugh, you never know in this game, especially since we have barely even tasted level 30 content. the other thing is that some people just look at it as +3 MRR just like they look at +1 damage from monk, +20 sp from sorcerer or an extra +1 by eating a tome. it all adds up in the end when you include all the other +1s from gear, enhancements, feats, buffs, etc and just comes down to if its worth the $ and/or the time investment to you without being able to foresee the future for a bit more damage mitigation.

Yep and when you look at what a triple triple completionist gets @ level 28 with all past lifes (including warlock):

+129 Hit points
+120 Spell points
+6 to saves vs. enchantments and illusions
+6 to saves vs. traps
+3 to conjuration DC
+3 to evocation DC
+9 to spell penetration
+3 to hit and to Ds of tactical feats
+30 Healing amp
+6 to elemental resistances
+6 to wand DCs
+3 to melee damage
+9 to ranged damage
+3 to UMD and intelligence skills
+6 to stats of summons, pets, hirelings
+15% fortification
+9 positive spellpower
+27 PRR
+3% Dodge
+9% Energy Absorption
+ 9 MRR
+36 Armor Class
+ 1 extra epic destiny twist
5 Powerful stances to choose from

It doesn't seem weak to me at all.

Singular

06-06-2015, 06:41 AM

Yep and when you look at what a triple triple completionist gets @ level 28 with all past lifes (including warlock):

+129 Hit points
+120 Spell points
+6 to saves vs. enchantments and illusions
+6 to saves vs. traps
+3 to conjuration DC
+3 to evocation DC
+9 to spell penetration
+3 to hit and to Ds of tactical feats
+30 Healing amp
+6 to elemental resistances
+6 to wand DCs
+3 to melee damage
+9 to ranged damage
+3 to UMD and intelligence skills
+6 to stats of summons, pets, hirelings
+15% fortification
+9 positive spellpower
+27 PRR
+3% Dodge
+9% Energy Absorption
+ 9 MRR
+36 Armor Class
+ 1 extra epic destiny twist
5 Powerful stances to choose from

It doesn't seem weak to me at all.

The next time I see a completionist die, I'm going to laugh and call them names.

Singular

06-06-2015, 10:21 AM

No past lives for warlock. Because they they sell their souls thus removing them from the wheel of eternity and any chance for a reincarnation.

Ha! That is totally awesome!

The new DDO Catch 22:

***Warlock Past Life***

As a Warlock, you have sold your soul to an extraplanar entity and therefore forfeit all future lives. You may select True Reincarnate, but this action sends your soul to the plane indicated on your contract. Thereafter, your character will be greyed out and no longer accessible. Please understand that your character is now enjoying the fruits of their labors.

***Completionist***

You have lost your completionist status until you run through all past lives.

Singular

06-06-2015, 10:24 AM

Il be perfectly honest with you singu, as a primarly sorc player myself who likes to fiddle with arcane casting, all "dps casters" will be warlocks once this update comes live

The crit damage imo outperforms the caster levels that sorc has, i mean it isnt hard to figure out, crit damage is the same as holy sword and crit rage or swasch is for casters, best scaling stat you can imagine for epics

Yeah?

I honestly haven't looked. You think Warlocks will outshine all other casters in dps output?

Thanks for the head's up!

Blackheartox

06-06-2015, 10:58 AM

Yeah?

I honestly haven't looked. You think Warlocks will outshine all other casters in dps output?

Thanks for the head's up!

Yes pretty sure unless they change it, crit damage adds so much dps that its mindblowing, since warlock is the only class that will have acess to that stat, its scaling with spellpower is best of all classes.
Hellball/energyburst/ruin, dip into shiradi and all your procs scale better then of others casters that play in shiradi.
Play as dc in exalted and your light damage and slas all scale better while having more overall dcs.

I think we will be able to sustain 49% critical chance as warlocks /prolly more in case they add a bit more in trees , while having 60% more critical damage then other classes.
That will translate imo from rough assumption into 20+ k ruin crits (i lacked helallot spellpower on my test 2nd lifer and i managed to hit 15-16 k crit ruins, it scales absurdly well)

Jsbeer

06-06-2015, 11:37 AM

Yeah?

I honestly haven't looked. You think Warlocks will outshine all other casters in dps output?

Thanks for the head's up!

Bear in mind though that the other caster classes will likely get an enhancement pass down the line, whereas Warlock may not.

So the Warlock may be an example of the power level that we might expect for post-buff casters.

Kirlian

06-06-2015, 02:22 PM

I would like to make it clear that the Warlock past life is intended to give +3 Magic Resistance Rating (MRR) per past life (stacking up to a total of +9 for all three past lives).

Is it a joke?

Thrudh

06-08-2015, 12:05 AM

If it's as mediocre as the rest of the past life thingies, yes, it's balanced.

That still doesn't mean it's good.

It's better than almost all of the other past-life feats...

+3 MRR helps ALL classes all the time... How good is +1 spell pen to a fighter? (or even to a caster facing mobs with zero SR). It's better than 10 hp or 20 sp or +1 damage.

100 MRR is not trivial to get... 9 MRR is a decent boost.... +3 damage or 30 hp are far lesser boosts.

Steve_Howe

06-08-2015, 10:04 AM

100 MRR is not trivial to get... 9 MRR is a decent boost.... +3 damage or 30 hp are far lesser boosts.

Nah, all three seem to be pretty equal to me.

9 MRR is as worthless/worth much as the other two examples.

Thrudh

06-08-2015, 12:30 PM

Nah, all three seem to be pretty equal to me.

Ah so then you agree the devs did a good job with the warlock past-life. :)

Steve_Howe

06-08-2015, 12:44 PM

Ah so then you agree the devs did a good job with the warlock past-life. :)

I don't think the past-lives you listed in addition to the Warlock past life were particularly good either. Certainly nothing I "must have."

Now, the Fighter past life (+1 to tactical DCs) and the Sorc Past life (+1 to Evocation DCs) are pretty much compelling enough to make me get those past lives, depending on what the toon will ultimately be, of course.

So ultimately, no, they did NOT do a good job on the Warlock past life.