latest lfm fun

[Amundir]

Had an open lfm up yesterday doing lammannia slayer to kill some time and use up some of my slayer boost potions. Clearly stated doing slayer, hirelings welcome, no quests.

*player joins*
Player: share
Me: It's a slayer area, nothing to share
*2-3 or so minutes pass, hasn't joined the area*
Player: share
*kick Player*

fun fun

[Algreg]

countdown to posts telling you how that was possibly a language barrier thing, how you have to teach new players, how elitists in general are killing the game, how you think you are so uber, yet are a n00b yourself and how you are a bad person in general.

[jalont]

countdown to posts telling you how that was possibly a language barrier thing, how you have to teach new players, how elitists in general are killing the game, how you think you are so uber, yet are a n00b yourself and how you are a bad person in general.

Well he has every right to do what he did, but at the same time, his attitude may have costed a good future player, so I hope to never see him complain about how hard it is to fill groups since he's so disinterested that he can't even bother doing the one thing he actually has control over.

[Amundir]

Zero attitude. Simply the facts of what happened. I expect people to read an lfm description and join if it matches what they want to do. I don't feel that is an unreasonable expectation, if the lfm is properly descriptive.


since he's so disinterested that he can't even bother doing the one thing he actually has control over.

Please explain this. I really have no idea what your referring to here...

[Coyopa]

I don't know. I would have done exactly what you did, Amundir. Maybe I would have attempted further explanation, though I rather doubt it - especially when all they can say is "share". In fact, depending on my mood, I might have shared some random quest with them and sent them off on a wild goose chase. They couldn't be bothered to even say "hi", be pleasant, or even ask questions after you explained that it isn't a quest and so cannot be shared. As far as I'm concerned, you were completely right to just boot them.

[Algreg]

Well he has every right to do what he did, but at the same time, his attitude may have costed a good future player, so I hope to never see him complain about how hard it is to fill groups since he's so disinterested that he can't even bother doing the one thing he actually has control over.

exhibit A. Right, what an "attitude". Yes, he should have wasted more explanations on someone who obviously did not care to notice those the first time, maybe also in French, Africaans, Portoguese and maybe Sanskrit, just to be sure.

[scipiojedi]

I've had this happen to me before. I kept them in the group until it was full I think before I booted since booting always makes me feel bad but sometimes you have to cut the ropes.

[Tscheuss]

I would have done a language check, but monoglots don't really have that option. The OP was not obligated to do more than what he already had. Further, it would be useful for the joining party to say "Thank you" or "Hello" in whatever language when they get accepted to the party just so the PL knows (s)he isn't being trolled. :)

[SiliconScout]

The only thing I can think of that I would have done differently is I would have explained what a Slayer area is before the boot. It's surprising just how many people don't get that.

Chances are they didn't know where to go to get into the Slayer area though, and if they can't be bothered to ask how to get there I would probably boot them as well. I am generally quite helpful and friendly when I am not soloing but there are times when it's just not worth the effort because they aren't interested in learning.

[jalont]

exhibit A. Right, what an "attitude". Yes, he should have wasted more explanations on someone who obviously did not care to notice those the first time, maybe also in French, Africaans, Portoguese and maybe Sanskrit, just to be sure.

Perhaps they are new and do not know what an explorer area is. A simple explanation with instructions on how to get there may have been the difference between a player staying or leaving the game. No one is obligated to do such things, but people that don't, lose all credibility when complaining about population.

[jalont]

Zero attitude. Simply the facts of what happened. I expect people to read an lfm description and join if it matches what they want to do. I don't feel that is an unreasonable expectation, if the lfm is properly descriptive.

[COLOR=#FFFFFF][FONT=Trebuchet MS]

Please explain this. I really have no idea what your referring to here...

It's unlikely that you were "giving it to that moron who couldn't read" and were instead being rude to a new player that needed a little help or direction. Instead of choosing the option that would have helped the new player find their way, you chose the option that is more likely to push the new player from the game due to the rude playerbase. Therefore, you lose credibility if you were to complain about the lack of population that your own actions helped create.

[Coyopa]

Perhaps they are new and do not know what an explorer area is. A simple explanation with instructions on how to get there may have been the difference between a player staying or leaving the game. No one is obligated to do such things, but people that don't, lose all credibility when complaining about population.

I really doubt the person who joined the lfm was a new player. First, new players tend to ask questions, rather than just saying "share" over and over. Second, if it was a newer player *and* they didn't ask any questions, it's unlikely they'll be leaving the game since they've reached the level where they think they're ready to go to the Vale of Twilight.

[Amundir]

I'll agree that I could have asked the person if they knew what a slayer area was. Had the replies been anything other than one word statements I may have. But, whatever. I'm not going to get drawn into some debate about player retention being a players responsibility. That's been had else where(https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/456046-New-Player-Retention-is-Our-Responsibility) and I've vocalized my views there. This thread is just a, "Look, this happened. Maybe you have a funny one to share too" thread.

[Fedora1]

Perhaps they are new and do not know what an explorer area is. A simple explanation with instructions on how to get there may have been the difference between a player staying or leaving the game. No one is obligated to do such things, but people that don't, lose all credibility when complaining about population.


you chose the option that is more likely to push the new player from the game due to the rude playerbase.

If a player has reached L16+ he is unlikely to leave the game because he got booted from a PUG once. Please stop the drama.

[golruul]

OP was justified in what he did. I would (and do) the same thing. Hopefully the person I booted squelches me so they never join my groups again.

If someone (new or old player) can't be bothered to say anything other than "share" when there's an obvious issue, then I can't be bothered figuring out what they don't understand. The obligation is on a potentially joining player to either figure out what's going on or ask if they don't understand something. The LFM description was clear to me, so the joining player must ask whatever they don't understand, preferably before they apply to the group.

If they don't understand the language, too bad. I don't want people in my groups that do whatever they want and absolutely refuse to listen to anyone -- they should solo the quest or make a group for similar, like-minded people.

[Livmo]

OP was justified in what he did. I would (and do) the same thing. Hopefully the person I booted squelches me so they never join my groups again.

If someone (new or old player) can't be bothered to say anything other than "share" when there's an obvious issue, then I can't be bothered figuring out what they don't understand. The obligation is on a potentially joining player to either figure out what's going on or ask if they don't understand something. The LFM description was clear to me, so the joining player must ask whatever they don't understand, preferably before they apply to the group.

If they don't understand the language, too bad. I don't want people in my groups that do whatever they want and absolutely refuse to listen to anyone -- they should solo the quest or make a group for similar, like-minded people.

Sometimes they are children (no joke). I've been in some PUGs where I thought it was a language issue, only to have my ear drums blasted out when the chest was opened : ) ) I bet their parents tell them to only type and they forgot to mute the mic. The squeel with glee regarding the loot drop can sometimes give them away : ) ) The point is you never really know who is on the other end and where they are at in life and in the game.

I agree tho, that it can be frustrating when they don't follow any instructs, regardless of who they are.

[Krell]

Often "share" means they are new and are not sure how to get there. Whether you boot them or try to help them is up to the party leader. If I'm not in a hurry, I'll usually make a couple attempts to help them.

[mudfud]

I would have kicked after the first share.

[Powskier]

The only thing I can think of that I would have done differently is I would have explained what a Slayer area is before the boot. It's surprising just how many people don't get that.

.
..yea ,I see this often in vale or mostly...Player joins and never learned wheat the slayer areas are for,and didn't know players group for them. A quick ,srry ..'I am running slayer,not a dungeon', b4 the Boot, is the standard courtesy.

[kgoodson3]

It's unlikely that you were "giving it to that moron who couldn't read" and were instead being rude to a new player that needed a little help or direction. Instead of choosing the option that would have helped the new player find their way, you chose the option that is more likely to push the new player from the game due to the rude playerbase. Therefore, you lose credibility if you were to complain about the lack of population that your own actions helped create.

Most new players don't know what "share" is. It is unlikely it was a new player, there isn't many of them. These points are as valid as yours.

[kgoodson3]

OP was justified in what he did. I would (and do) the same thing. Hopefully the person I booted squelches me so they never join my groups again.

If someone (new or old player) can't be bothered to say anything other than "share" when there's an obvious issue, then I can't be bothered figuring out what they don't understand. The obligation is on a potentially joining player to either figure out what's going on or ask if they don't understand something. The LFM description was clear to me, so the joining player must ask whatever they don't understand, preferably before they apply to the group.

If they don't understand the language, too bad. I don't want people in my groups that do whatever they want and absolutely refuse to listen to anyone -- they should solo the quest or make a group for similar, like-minded people.

Correct, common courtesy goes both ways. Simply type "poor English, bear with me" or "sorry, I'm new" (or something like that) and all of a sudden my level of effort in helping you will ratchet way up.

[Tebaco]

Well he has every right to do what he did, but at the same time, his attitude may have costed a good future player, so I hope to never see him complain about how hard it is to fill groups since he's so disinterested that he can't even bother doing the one thing he actually has control over.

What control? He logged for playing game not for typing fest. When you explain that one guy, your patience loosing good status. Whats the point of whole thing? Most of thouse who say share arent new players but trolls. Especialy in lamania. You can explain tham that you doing slayer, how to get there etc. But after all they just leave.
So he is maybe not nice for some other trolls but its definitely nice for his own health.

Another example are trolls who joins such lfm and know what is plan and perfectely understand it, but indsted of saying share they say : "Are we doing also some quests?"..

I am not kicking tham, just saying that i understand poster above. And understand him way more when he just used such slayer pot.

[Tebaco]

Had an open lfm up yesterday doing lammannia slayer to kill some time and use up some of my slayer boost potions. Clearly stated doing slayer, hirelings welcome, no quests.

*player joins*
Player: share
Me: It's a slayer area, nothing to share
*2-3 or so minutes pass, hasn't joined the area*
Player: share
*kick Player*

fun fun

And btw I wouldnt posting this on forum.

[Amundir]

No names, it's fine. ^_^

[kilpanic]

I have a fun one too: the last open group I tried to join was in Gianthold, with the description labeled clearly as three random letters separated by forward slashes (this is typical of groups that bother to have labels at all). I mentioned that I was new and asked what quest we were doing, but only got a cryptic reply that I couldn't understand; follow-up questions yielded no results. I saw a couple of blue dots moving around on the map, too quickly for me to catch, and then saw that other party members were looting chests. Eventually I figured out that the group was engaged in parallel play in the wilderness area, much like toddlers 'play' together before they learn how to communicate. I made my excuses and left the group to do what I could solo for awhile.

I'm sorry I'm too stupid to understand what s/d/r (or whatever) means, but I'll certainly steer clear of open groups in the future.

[Amundir]

Unfortunate they didn't explain what s/r/e means. Did you follow up in any public chat to ask what it means?

[Enoach]

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing anything constructive...

Is the intended message - Look we still have people that don't read LFM's? <- I'm pretty sure we all knew that, been that way since at least '06

Is the intended message - Look people still don't know what a slayer are is? <- It is quiet possible the person joined an LFM because it was in their level range and don't yet have the jargon down to understand - Some because they are new and some because they have no intention of learning.

As for new players, I actually believe they learn the "Share" message quickly because it can help them find the quest entrance faster on the map and also access to the Quest Journal which can also help them locate this.

In this case we won't know, but it is possible that the person was asking "Share" but what they really were looking for was directions. Now, I will agree "Share" is not a good replacement for "Hey I don't know where this is, can you help me find how to join you?"

--------------
Now I might have had a bit more patience than the OP but I would not have kicked the person. My reasons:
1. They were not hurting my progress in a slayer area - I use voice most of the time so pressing push-to-talk and talking does not hinder my other progress
2. Its possible that when another player joins the group they may be able to grab that person's shirt tails to find their way in

But in the end kicking the person from the party is totally your decision and as the PL totally something you can do if you want.

[kilpanic]

Unfortunate they didn't explain what s/r/e means. Did you follow up in any public chat to ask what it means?

C'mon, pull the other one. Nobody reads or responds to public chat!

[Amundir]

I'd disagree. I've often gotten responses when asking questions in the marketplace or harbor.

But my main reason for asking was to see if you were still unclear what s/r/e means, and if not, to follow up.

[Coyopa]

I have a fun one too: the last open group I tried to join was in Gianthold, with the description labeled clearly as three random letters separated by forward slashes (this is typical of groups that bother to have labels at all). I mentioned that I was new and asked what quest we were doing, but only got a cryptic reply that I couldn't understand; follow-up questions yielded no results. I saw a couple of blue dots moving around on the map, too quickly for me to catch, and then saw that other party members were looting chests. Eventually I figured out that the group was engaged in parallel play in the wilderness area, much like toddlers 'play' together before they learn how to communicate. I made my excuses and left the group to do what I could solo for awhile.

I'm sorry I'm too stupid to understand what s/d/r (or whatever) means, but I'll certainly steer clear of open groups in the future.

Sorry to hear you had this experience. It's s/r/e or similar, which stands for Slayers/Rares/Explorers. These are probably good groups for you to stay away from since it sounds like that is not the style of play you're interested in. If it makes you feel any better, I don't normally join these groups, either.

[golruul]

[...]I mentioned that I was new and asked what quest we were doing, but only got a cryptic reply that I couldn't understand; follow-up questions yielded no results. [...]I'm sorry I'm too stupid to understand what s/d/r (or whatever) means, but I'll certainly steer clear of open groups in the future.

This is a case where the leader/others were rude/unhelpful. You did the correct thing by asking what you didn't understand. I would avoid the leader's groups if I were you.

If someone asks a question like that in my groups, I'll give a proper response. If you spend the time to type the question, I'll spend the time answering it. I actually don't mind when people ask questions like "how do I get to the quest?" -- I'll stop after combat is over and type out the directions without a problem. However, when people join and just spam "share", I get annoyed. On the other hand, I don't mind "I don't know how to get to the quest, can you share so I can find out where to go?" and will share without a problem.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

Well he has every right to do what he did, but at the same time, his attitude may have costed a good future player, so I hope to never see him complain about how hard it is to fill groups since he's so disinterested that he can't even bother doing the one thing he actually has control over.

Because new players are often found on Lamma?

Nah. Booting after the first 'share' would've been fine by me.

[kilpanic]

Sorry to hear you had this experience.

No worries, I'm just offering a perspective that's the obverse of the OP's. I don't have the time or desire to coach newbies in the games I'm deep into, either. But it does feel like there's a gulf separating the lived-in veterans and anyone who is newly approaching the game.

[Amundir]

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing anything constructive...

Exact same thing happened again to me yesterday. Joined a lam group, shortly after the same person joined that group and did the same thing. However, this time they were not idle and after a moment left on their own. This time, after having participated in this thread, I decided to go the extra yard and private messaged them an explanation of what we were doing and why. Now if they do it again in the future they are either trolling or it is a language barrier and they choose not to try to translate the message to learn.

How's that for constructive!

[Coyopa]

Exact same thing happened again to me yesterday. Joined a lam group, shortly after the same person joined that group and did the same thing. However, this time they were not idle and after a moment left on their own. This time, after having participated in this thread, I decided to go the extra yard and private messaged them an explanation of what we were doing and why. Now if they do it again in the future they are either trolling or it is a language barrier and they choose not to try to translate the message to learn.

How's that for constructive!

I'm glad you made the extra effort. Hopefully, that will help that player in the future. Maybe they'll be more inclined to ask questions when they have them.

[Deslen]

OP said Lamannia.

If you're new, you shouldn't be on the test server.

[Connman]

OP said Lamannia.

If you're new, you shouldn't be on the test server.

I read it as Lamannia slayers in the vale.

[wildbynature]

OP said Lamannia.

If you're new, you shouldn't be on the test server.

Darn names being the same for types of slayers as the test server!

...Its okay, forumites. As his fiancée, I happily take responsibility for the sleep deprivation that led to this post.

[Tscheuss]

I read it as Lamannia slayers in the vale.

So did I. After all, who does slayer groups on the test server. :rolleyes:

[arkonas]

No worries, I'm just offering a perspective that's the obverse of the OP's. I don't have the time or desire to coach newbies in the games I'm deep into, either. But it does feel like there's a gulf separating the lived-in veterans and anyone who is newly approaching the game.

you actually said it yourself. people who get really deep into the game or have played for a long time are more likely not to be helpful. i didn't say all of course. there are still some who help. i do find it funny some people who have played for years were in the same seat at one point asking the same stupid things and i wonder what those vets thought of us then as well. probably thinking omg noob or getting frustrated as well. now years later you see the new people become vets and repeat the same behavior. so yes i've played for a long time and there are my moments where i just get too frustrated to want to deal with anyone. i mentioned this a few weeks ago someone joined summoned hirelings without asking and even left the dungeon to get the quest without asking. moral of the story they mentioned they had been playing for a bit. so either a troll. a huge noob or just really disrespectful.


let me make this very clear and simple. i don't care if you're new or a vet have some respect for anyone who has been playing the game or starting. this is a 2 way street. respect will go a lot farther then being some jerk or other words i can't use.

[Pnumbra]

Had an open lfm up yesterday doing lammannia slayer to kill some time and use up some of my slayer boost potions. Clearly stated doing slayer, hirelings welcome, no quests.

*player joins*
Player: share
Me: It's a slayer area, nothing to share
*2-3 or so minutes pass, hasn't joined the area*
Player: share
*kick Player*

fun fun

Wait. Did you offer to help the player reach the area? Often, new players or players who are not familiar with a quest don't know how to reach a given location. I find a common meeting point for everyone that is a short run to the area helps move things along. Posting this was just mean.

[SiliconScout]

This is true enough.

On a Tempest's Spine Run about 6 months ago I remember there being 3 guys who started the run, all very much vets. I have played a lot but honestly stay away from most raids because everyone seems to expect you to know it or not join. Chronoscope and Shroud being the two exceptions there. I personally knew the Spine run OK .. wasn't sure on the fire and ice pull because I never have done it but other than that my knowledge level is OKish.

Anyway I was in there and it was pretty obvious there were a couple of guys like me with some reasonable knowledge, the 3 guys who knew it sideways and then 6 people who had pretty much never run it or maybe run it once or twice. The guys leading the run didn't wait for the group to form up outside the raid or in the starting area and just started running. I managed to trail back and get the new people through the fire elementals and into the quest OK but it was a lot of puppy herding at times. The raid was going ok, not super fast but OK up to the swim. There people were lost all over the place typing in party chat asking for help and what not.

It was at this point the 3 guys leading the run started really bashing them both in voice and in chat for not knowing the raid and generally being "Stupid Newbs". I have to admit it kinda ticked me off so I piped up and asked them in voice if they just knew the raid when they started DDO. OF course they didn't somebody showed them how to run it and with practice they came to know what is one of the least straightforward Raids in the game. I then asked how the hell they expected new players to be able to complete the raid cleanly if every time they come into one it's full of people like them who were shown the ropes but won't do the same for others.

I am pleased to say that two of them came back and slowed it down just a little, but it was enough to keep the group together and help everyone learn how the Raid actually worked a little. To be honest I think it took less time to run a little slower because nobody got lost / died on their own needing a rescue. It also helped that one of them had the stones so it couldn't complete until we all got there anyway. Standing in the end room they explained the mechanics of the fight, how to hug the wall to keep from being blown off and the end fight went extremely smooth. To be honest it was a moment that made me feel REALLY good.

Sometimes people just need a reminder that they were once in the newbs shoes and if they take just a little extra time to explain things to them not only do they get a better party member / player they also improve the community.

[RumbIe]

But, whatever. I'm not going to get drawn into some debate about player retention being a players responsibility. That's been had else where(https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/456046-New-Player-Retention-is-Our-Responsibility) and I've vocalized my views there. This thread is just a, "Look, this happened. Maybe you have a funny one to share too" thread.

Posting something on the internet and not expecting some kind of debate..........Ha! Everybody funny. Now you funny too.