ToEE reward for thoroughness?

[LongshotBro]

A few nights ago, i found myself in ToEE part 2 running around solo for fun on HH with my lvl 11 NovaSoul. So there is some context, since i'm not sure if that's grossly overpowered for the content or not.

i'd already been in there about a while, just exploring and looking to pick up mushrooms. It was late, i was tired but i had a second wind and decided to just explore the heck out of the place and look in every corner.

Eventually i'd found all those floating gems, unlocked the nodes, etc. There was nothing else to do but the end fight, which i'd done one other time. That time was just after release, on epic (hard i think) with a group. Plus i'd read horror stories of how difficult it can be, so i expected to get creamed in short order.

Stepped inside, Zuggtmoy did her spiel, and the fight began. i started firing off spells, a couple of magic missles/chain missles. Glance at her red bar and she's practically dead already. Zap zap zap...she'd dead.

???

i recalled playing the Troika ToEE game years ago. That end fight was also very challenging, and after getting beaten several times there i decided to explore a bit more. So i bypassed the room she was in, snuck around a few corners and found a secret door. Inside was a pedestal with a bunch of gems on it. Treasure! The rogue crept up to it and swiped the loot...then a shout came from beyond the room - Zuggtmoy didn't appreciate the heist and was instantly banished and the quest defeated.

Back to DDO: i'm curious if the thorough exploration and discovery of all those gems somehow weakened her in the final battle. Has anyone else experienced this? Was i just simply overlevel for the content and she's not that tough on HH to begin with? It really made me wonder if somehow by really exploring the whole place and doing all that stuff sapped some of her power for that fight.

[UurlockYgmeov]

interesting theory and worth investigating.

But also you were solo - and dungeon scaling favors solo significantly - so that also might have something to do with it.

[cru121]

did you pick up a bunch of mysterious altars on your way? magic missiles function exceptionally well with elemental altar buffs.

[LongshotBro]

Good points.

i was indeed solo, which may have been a factor - do dungeon bosses scale that way?

IIRC i only ran across one altar in the whole place, and i think it was the defense one (HP, PRR). But that might have been in part one (but possibly still going when i went into part two).

Maybe it's nothing, but perhaps it's a subtle thing that wasn't widely disseminated or anything. Even the wiki is scant of information on Zuggtmoy and ToEE in general.

[FranOhmsford]

Back to DDO: i'm curious if the thorough exploration and discovery of all those gems somehow weakened her in the final battle. Has anyone else experienced this? Was i just simply overlevel for the content and she's not that tough on HH to begin with? It really made me wonder if somehow by really exploring the whole place and doing all that stuff sapped some of her power for that fight.


interesting theory and worth investigating.

But also you were solo - and dungeon scaling favors solo significantly - so that also might have something to do with it.

I'm gonna go with the fact that the OP stated HH {Heroic HARD not ELITE!}.

The difference between Hard and Elite in DDO is MASSIVE!

Champions have made no impact on that difference because both Hard and Elite got Champions {They have made the step up from Normal more like a cliff face though!}.

Zuggtmoy on Heroic Elite is frankly BROKEN OP! {She's annihilating Epic Characters for cryin' out loud!}.
But I'm not surprised that she's doable by an average to good Soloer in Heroic Hard overlevel {Even a couple of extra levels will make HH a walk in the park in nearly every quest in the game}.

[FranOhmsford]

do dungeon bosses scale that way?

Yes they do!

If you have the Monster Manual deed for seeing that boss's HPs {obviously you can't do this with Zuggtmoy} all you have to do is dismiss your Hireling and you'll see the monster's HP total diminish!

Add another player to the group and you'll see it go up when they enter the quest!

[PentegarnDarras]

I've read somewhere that acquiring all 4 gems does NOT weaken her and just grants a shot at one of the 'elemental' loot items.
I'm pretty sure I read it on the forums, so take that with a grain of salt.
There is this on the wiki:

End Chest
One for defeating Zuggtmoy (can drop named/crafted items; drops +6 to +7 Upgrade Tomes on EE; always/often contains (Epic) Mushroom Cap)
One optional chest for doing all elemental nodes (always/often contains (Epic) Elemental Victory)

http://ddowiki.com/images/Elemental_Victory.png

[PentegarnDarras]

Found it:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/458965-Zuggtmoy-and-Nodes

[Nandos]

I recently completed TOEE part 2 on Heroic Elite with all nodes found. The end fight did not seem any easier (our level 9s were dying left and right). It did produce a second chest which contained an Elemental Victory (pictured above) for everyone in the party. I do not know if the drop rate is 100% especially on lower difficulties or not.

[HailBlazR]

I'm gonna go with the fact that the OP stated HH {Heroic HARD not ELITE!}.

The difference between Hard and Elite in DDO is MASSIVE!
From EH to EE, yes. From HH and HE, no--ToEE 1 & 2 are the only quests where the difference is truly staggering.


Zuggtmoy on Heroic Elite is frankly BROKEN OP!
Agree.

For the record, I've tried out on my level 24 sorcerer, and there is no observable difference between fighting Zuggtmoy after collecting all 4 gems and after collecting only 1 gem. That's on Heroic Elite. I'd imagine it wouldn't be different for Heroic Hard either. I suspect that the difficulty (or lack thereof) is simply due to it being on Heroic Hard (which is a cakewalk for any quest if you ask me), and due to the level difference.

I'm looking at that "elemental victory" item and can't help but shake my head. Does Turbine honestly expect any of us to actually want that? I suppose some reward is better than none, but really, vendor fodder to me is as good as no reward. It'd be cool if ToEE actually did reward thoroughness in a substantial matter.

[CThruTheEgo]

I'm looking at that "elemental victory" item and can't help but shake my head. Does Turbine honestly expect any of us to actually want that? I suppose some reward is better than none, but really, vendor fodder to me is as good as no reward. It'd be cool if ToEE actually did reward thoroughness in a substantial matter.

Apparently ToEE loot is all about the appearance and, from what I've read, that's been the only reason anyone actually wants elemental victory. In response to critiques about the quality of the named loot, several dev responses went something like this – "but have you seen what it looks like?" So really, the main purpose of ToEE loot seems to be to sell mirrors of glamoring.

[Eth]

I didn't found her any easier with all nodes done (but maybe I just didn't notice).

If that extra chest wasn't so disappointing I would do all nodes more often.
The unique reward is a one time thing and BTC. The rest of the chest is filled with about 10 random loot weapons (aka vendor trash).
Not even ToEE weapons...

[HailBlazR]

Currently the best incentive to run the entire gamut of ToEE part 2 is to get more Elemental Mushrooms.

It's more time efficient to run through the entire quest and gain a guaranteed amount of Elemental Mushrooms than to clear to the elemental nexus room and have a 25% chance of being given the node you want.

[Milikki]

I can tell you the elemental victory is not a guarantee, nor even a common drop. I ran toee 6 times, complete, and re rolled the extra chest an additional 6 times before I got one. And the one I got was pass to me by a party member I invited in at the end to loot chests. Unlucky maybe, but it was the equivalent of at least 13 full runs before I saw one.

[Powerhungry]

I can tell you the elemental victory is not a guarantee, nor even a common drop. I ran toee 6 times, complete, and re rolled the extra chest an additional 6 times before I got one. And the one I got was pass to me by a party member I invited in at the end to loot chests. Unlucky maybe, but it was the equivalent of at least 13 full runs before I saw one.

I've only cleared TOEE part 2 once- and pulled an elemental victory.
On the other hand, it took me 45 runs of Dreaming Dark to get a pale lav ioun stone...

[Eth]

Currently the best incentive to run the entire gamut of ToEE part 2 is to get more Elemental Mushrooms.

It's more time efficient to run through the entire quest and gain a guaranteed amount of Elemental Mushrooms than to clear to the elemental nexus room and have a 25% chance of being given the node you want.

When I did the full run I was actually looking to get an armor and therefore checked all the rare encounter positions in all the nodes.
That run must have been very unlucky though. There were only 2 rare encounter locations I didn't check and that run ended up having no rare encounters at all (of course each node had one rare that opens the way to Zuggtmoy, but those are guaranteed).

[Eth]

I can tell you the elemental victory is not a guarantee, nor even a common drop. I ran toee 6 times, complete, and re rolled the extra chest an additional 6 times before I got one. And the one I got was pass to me by a party member I invited in at the end to loot chests. Unlucky maybe, but it was the equivalent of at least 13 full runs before I saw one.

What difficulty?
I did the full round twice on EE and had it drop both times.