Is Ameliorating Strike needed?

[Bart_D]

Starting Point: I want to play a Morninglord Barbarian from 15 to 27. (I want Morninglord and Barbarian past lifes.)

Question: To have the most pleasant journey 15-27, should I (A) take enough cleric for Ameliorating Strike or (B) get 18 barbarian levels?

A: Probably Cleric5/Barbarian12/Fighter3 (4/12/4 if another feat is more needed than level 3 spells)

B: Probably Cleric1/Barbarian18/Ranger1 (can get decent ranged burst with bow stength + manyshot)

I guess what I'm really wondering is whether the tier 5 barbarian healing enhancements are generally sufficient - does anyone have input on this, or general build comments?

[jalont]

Starting Point: I want to play a Morninglord Barbarian from 15 to 27. (I want Morninglord and Barbarian past lifes.)

Question: To have the most pleasant journey 15-27, should I (A) take enough cleric for Ameliorating Strike or (B) get 18 barbarian levels?

A: Probably Cleric5/Barbarian12/Fighter3 (4/12/4 if another feat is more needed than level 3 spells)

B: Probably Cleric1/Barbarian18/Ranger1 (can get decent ranged burst with bow stength + manyshot)

I guess what I'm really wondering is whether the tier 5 barbarian healing enhancements are generally sufficient - does anyone have input on this, or general build comments?

If it were me, I'd go barb 18. The healing is sufficient depending on the content you run. I do fine in EE with only the barb healing and SF pots for emergencies, but it's up to you if you want to grind out the SF pots. I know if I was on an iconic, I wouldn't want to go back and get the favor. Still, I think the barb healing for EH and below is probably good enough on its own with just regular cure pots.

[Qhualor]

yes the tier 5 self healing is sufficient enough. heroics its overkill but EE you might still need SF pots for emergencies. Ameliorating Strike is still very much viable but not a necessity for a barb. that depends on you for which you prefer. the SF favor as an Iconic usually just takes me a couple hours below Necro 4, but im also maximizing xp in the quests I can still get xp for. you can get the rest of the favor before hitting epics while leveling through Necro 4, Litany and Dust chain. if its just for the past life I wouldn't worry too hard over which is better to do because both ways will get you to cap easy enough.

[unbongwah]

A: Probably Cleric5/Barbarian12/Fighter3 (4/12/4 if another feat is more needed than level 3 spells)
If this is a TWF build (which AS favors), I would consider barb 12 / rgr 4 / cleric 4 instead: you give up lvl 3 spells, but gain Ram's Might, +10% offhand procs from Tempest, and enough free rgr feats to make adding Manyshot easier.

B: Probably Cleric1/Barbarian18/Ranger1 (can get decent ranged burst with bow stength + manyshot)
See the latest Cetus (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/458025-U25-Cetus-Barbarian-with-Manyshot); pretty easy to adapt to ML w/cleric instead of FvS splash and you don't need to LR +1.

[Bloodskittle]

Am strike is nice if you like being in control of when your hp comes in, however a pure barbarian that is geared properly will stay alive just as easily and deal a heck of a lot more damage than any build that includes Am Strike.

If you want a sun elf PL then do as Unbongwah has said and follow Cetus' build with some changes made to accommodate Sun-elf and cleric.

[Bart_D]

See the latest Cetus (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/458025-U25-Cetus-Barbarian-with-Manyshot); pretty easy to adapt to ML w/cleric instead of FvS splash and you don't need to LR +1.Yes that does look good, it would be different from what I have tried lately (that is a good thing) and a cleric version should not be too much different from fvs.

Or how about a swashbuckler:

C: Cleric4/Barbarian12/Bard4 with Ameliorating Strike, Angry Arms, rapier and maybe a buckler (but only about 40 APs left for Barbarian enhancements)

Though... Elf barbarian with a toothpick? lol

Edit: I think I will try a modified version of the latest Cestus from unbongwah's link. I will take cleric (Morninglord level 1) and fighter instead of favored soul and ranger. I will not get the nice Bow Strength + Manyshot ranged option but will be able to take Great Cleave and Stunning Blow. While the original is probably stronger at cap, I think the modification works with Morninglord (which does not get a feat like PDK does), gets relevant feats faster and does not require a heart.

[unbongwah]

Cleric4/Barbarian12/Bard4 with Ameliorating Strike, Angry Arms, rapier and maybe a buckler (but only about 40 APs left for Barbarian enhancements)
I've theory-crafted such builds before; main downsides are lack of feats and loss of DPS vs pure barb (no Death Frenzy nor Storm's Eye), although Swashbuckler crit bonuses help offset it. If you're sticking w/sun elf, consider lt maces - yes, maces - instead; Skullsmasher (http://ddowiki.com/page/Skullsmasher) is one of the best Swashie weapons and benefits from ML weapon training. [Unfortunately, Amaunator bonuses only apply to hvy maces.]

[adrian69]

In vanilla, until I stopped playing around U14, barbarian was my class, for good or bad. I came back after U19 and went to the barb first thing and hated having my half Orc face handed to me buy giants and I actually wasted like money on 2 LR+5 hearts. Well, the first was a huge waste cause I messed up rebuilding. However I ended up going 12 barb 6 ranger 2 rogue with emp heal. It was a first life 32 pt build. However, the content was so much different from back in 2011. However, a few lives later I decided to go with, I think it was ubongwahs build, and went 12 barb 4 fvs 4 ranger. Even with better gear and a few past lives I could tell the survivability difference and it was fun. However, I keep a THF horc barb/ 2 ftr and a Twf dwarf barb/2 ranger around just for fun or to help guildies or lower level players at level 15 and level 21. I can say they do awesome since the update.

However I have also ran another past life on Hulluuk since the update to knock another PDK life out of the way, and the Cetus like barb is awesome, does wicked dps, probably best in game atm, and has a ton of crit.

I went up the FB tree for +2 crit and healing and utilized ravager as an off tree with ear smash from the OS tree. I think that's the only difference. In higher level EE you'll need an alternative source of healing if soloing like the big pots or wands or something in mid battle while rage is own, but you'll have spell points to quit rage and switch to a devotion item and cure light wounds once if your close enough to a shrine and not dip to far into your DM pool.

The difference you'll have between one fvs and one cleric level are 2 to saves and 200 spell points vs access to the whole level one spell book. If you run a hire a lot, which one of friends does, but he went 18 barb 1 fvs 1 wizard for the cleave and augment summon. She runs LD solo and DC in large groups and swears she's raging when she's dropping that aoe holy fire healing and 10% damage thing they do. Have no idea if it really works raging, I'm just happy to get a heal and a damage boost.

[Bart_D]

Thanks for input everyone! After a very smooth and enjoyable journey, I reached cap a couple days ago as Morninglord C1/F1/B18 (levels taken in that order). Some comments, mostly about staying alive:

- I have pretty good but not optimal equipment for something like this and still did well (ie. used black dragonplate and (e)sos most of the time.)

- Ameliorating Strike is definitely not needed. I used Blood Strength from Ravager and almost always got enough healing to not have to worry about staying alive at all. The only trouble is when you take heavy damage and cant turn around and chop down a couple mobs. Accelerated Metabolism would probably have worked too.

- I did have Sacred Ground and Consecration twisted in and used it for stationary boss-fights and similar. (Other twists I used most of the time: Tunnel Vision and Primal Scream... [which for some reason can't be used while madstoned...bug?])

- I did not have Silver Flame pots which I would have gotten the favor for if I were to play longer than just to reach cap. However, having 2 complete heals from Morninglord (Rejuvenation of Dawn) saved my bacon a couple times.

- I am not really sure there is any survival or melee-dps benefit to multiclassing a mostly-barbarian like I did. I can see the argument for a small ranger splash to get a worthwhile ranged attack. But I am convinced a pure barbarian with Storm's Eye would have been stronger than my mix.

[Bloodskittle]

Thanks for input everyone! After a very smooth and enjoyable journey, I reached cap a couple days ago as Morninglord C1/F1/B18 (levels taken in that order). Some comments, mostly about staying alive:

- I have pretty good but not optimal equipment for something like this and still did well (ie. used black dragonplate and (e)sos most of the time.)

- Ameliorating Strike is definitely not needed. I used Blood Strength from Ravager and almost always got enough healing to not have to worry about staying alive at all. The only trouble is when you take heavy damage and cant turn around and chop down a couple mobs. Accelerated Metabolism would probably have worked too.

- I did have Sacred Ground and Consecration twisted in and used it for stationary boss-fights and similar. (Other twists I used most of the time: Tunnel Vision and Primal Scream... [which for some reason can't be used while madstoned...bug?])

- I did not have Silver Flame pots which I would have gotten the favor for if I were to play longer than just to reach cap. However, having 2 complete heals from Morninglord (Rejuvenation of Dawn) saved my bacon a couple times.

- I am not really sure there is any survival or melee-dps benefit to multiclassing a mostly-barbarian like I did. I can see the argument for a small ranger splash to get a worthwhile ranged attack. But I am convinced a pure barbarian with Storm's Eye would have been stronger than my mix.

Its worth doing the Favor clean up to get SF pots in my opinion they're very good for boss fights and the like and save you two twists if you're running in LD (don't need consecration)

Hail of Blows and grim precision are two good twists to consider as well,
Hail of blows - 3% doublestrike (Grand Master of Flowers)
Grim Precision - 15% Fort bypass (Shadowdancer)